Iraq: Right Getting Ready To Blame Obama
By Steve Hynd Thursday Jan 22, 2009 10:30am
Over at the old Abu Aardvark blog site, Marc Lynch is keeping his del.icio.us bookmarks going. There, he notes Michael Goldfarb's Weekly Standard post entitled "Inheriting Victory In Iraq" and comments:
this is the moment for which conservatives have been preparing for the last year and a half: sustaining the illusion of "victory" just long enough to be able to blame Democrats for "losing Iraq" when things go wrong. Get ready.
He's right, of course. The faction fights and social cracks in Iraq pretty much guarantee more violence at some point and it won't matter a damn how many US troops (or even whether there are any at all) are there or not when the next outbreak of Iraq's cyclical boodfeud hits. It might be Kurds vs Shia, Shia vs Sunni, Sunni "Sons" vs Sunni Iraqi Islamic Party or Shia Sadrists vs Shia Badrists - but it won't matter a damn to Republicans that all Bush and Petraeus ever did was paper lightly over those cracks, only enough to bring Iraqi violence down to a per-capita equivalent of a 9/11 a week. It's still true that the US needs to withdraw before those feuds that Bush blew the lid off by invading can finally resolve themselves and it's still true that, for pro-occupation conservative pundits, it'll still be Obama's fault.
(Even if the Iraqi leadership wants the US to leave.)
Crossposted from Newshoggers
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... Can we leave now?
Declare victory and go home.
Who's going to argue?
We all KNOW that some chucklehead on the right is gonna pitch a hissy fit.
They're kinda irrelevant now...
But that will make them pitch even bigger hissy fits...hell...maybe even a full blown conniption fit...or quite possibly the dreaded Cat. 3 Temper Tantrum.
It will be fun to watch.
Thu, 01/22/2009 - 10:44 — liberalNmoderation
We all KNOW that some chucklehead on the right is gonna pitch a hissy fit.
http://sammyray.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/1...
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j182/swifti...
?
one of these things doesn't belong? :o
Its teh middle one
'Mission Accomplished' sign. Let's drag 'er out and stick 'er up somewhere.
Hells yeah!!!
Really! Duct tape it to a tree, take a picture and then get the hell out of Iraq.
They have trees in Iraq?
Seriously though...if I see that banner on ebay...I'm biddin on that shit!
Now that Messiah have freed the terrorists, we be needin all the duct tape for our foreclosed homes.
Since the Right is going to blame Obama for everything, no matter what he does, he may as well do whatever he thinks is best.
Its not like the Right is going credit him with anything so he may as well focus his results for the reality-based community.
Fuck those damn troglodyte-philistine bastards!!!
Of course, leaving is at least a 6 month operation. A year is not unreasonable. However, assuming that a new Iraqi civil war is still inevitable, we should keep paying the warlords to keep a lid on much of the violence until US troops are out of the country.
After we're gone, the new administration should suddenly shut off all payments and let the civil war kick off again. That way, the US public will have at least three years to get distracted by other matters before President Obama's up for re-election.
The ignorant, assholes on the Right just won't allow Prez. Obama to better America for the good of all of us.
And of course what did we win?
We found no WMD's
Saddam is gone
But he's a secularist
Our man Ahmed Chalabi lost
To a Shia name Nouri Al Maliki
Who's playing kissy-face with another Shia
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Their opinion is moot. They don't matter.
L-D B: it is a sad fact. They are in this for themselves and President Obama is ruining it for them. I mean, how DARE he ruin their perfect picture of their life.-snark-
Will we get righties saying "We could have won" in Iraq?
right after pull out, or right after Iraq Civil War breaks out. one or the other.
Let the assholes blame Obama. The real winners will be the entire world. Our people over there won't have to keep murdering Iraqis for CheneyBushCo's soiled wet dream.
You know I am seriously considering sending Hannity a box of tissues.
There was one person who once sent BillO the Clown a bottle of "no tears" baby shampoo. I lol'd when I read about that.
They've been laying the groundwork for this for a long time - hell, there were doing it before we invaded as well. The sad thing is how the media has enabled it.
that is when we 'lost' the 'war'
We just did not send enough troops and spend enough money to rebuild the country.
Defeating what was left of the Iraqi army was no real challenge. Rebuilding the country was. We as a society were unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices (reinstituting the draft, for one) and we had an administration that was unwilling to ask for those sacrifices to be made. (What kind of bullshit suggestion is 'go shopping' to assist the war effort?)
Since the country was not prepared for the necessary sacrifices (and since the administration was not willing to deal honestly with the voters), we lost the peace.
Errrrr.... we "lost the peace" because we illegally started an illegal war. You sound as if you aren't yet able to understand that the invasion of Iraq was an illegal act under US law.
as usual, we are in disagreement.
not sure how anyone could claim "victory" in iraq... or consider the realities on the ground as "a win"
Terrible - My comment has nothing to do with the legality of the war or otherwise. Winning the war, in the sense of defeating the standing army of a third world nation, is a point entirely independent of the legality of the invasion.
Samson - We conquered Iraq. Therefore, we won the war. This statement has NOTHING to say about the morality of invading Iraq and killing Iraqi citizens. I'm just recognizing the basic reality that a first world nation beat a third world nation in a military invasion.
the "basic reality" you refer to is not really that basic, nor does it necessarily fit into reality.
we pay insurgents for the current decrease in violence. the dissolution of the iraqi army was a strategy. we have had to pay off the likes of sadr in order to assure that the country doesn't devolve into a civil war.
the current "calm" isn't due to war, it is due to bribes. and heaps of american tax payer dollars.
take that away, and we'll see just how "won" the war is.
I'm using the term "war" in the sense it was used before Bush's bullshit "war on terror". The invasion, right or wrong, was successful. Next on the neocon list was nation building. That's the part they entirely failed to do.
Lack of planning, lack of intelligence (in at least two senses of the word), lack of resources, etc all combined to keep the US from any major reconstruction.
If reconstruction was ever possible (and I doubt that it was), the window of opportunity to do so long since closed.
Iraq was a figment of the occupiers' British mind and British Petroleum after WWI.
THey "invented" the country of "Iraq" making sure to include populations of people who were at each others' throats for centuries!
In this way, they were assured of a disunited fiefdom for their oil corporation.
There are Sunni, Shia, Kurds, ethnic Turks and christians, thoug most of the xians have been driven out thanks to Bush's war.
Leave 'em all the hell alone and let them massacre each other.
It's. not. our. business.
Oh wait, did I just say that out loud?
and hid it under their desert!
Bush never found oil in Texas much less WMD in Iraq.
Iraq is an internationally recognized country, just like Yuogslavia was. The fact that its borders were arbitrarily determined by an imperialist power doesn't mean Iraq isn't a country. It just means its not a stable one.
@_@
It's called "overstatement."
sourcasm happens.
And which is why the invasion of it was a war crime under US and international law.
And i have that invasion on video!
who care's what the dead enders think?
29% of the population is either braindead, anaesthesized, or simply incapable of independent thought. It's time that we stopped running the country based on the "opinions" of parochial types whose view of the world doesn't extend beyond their neighborhood.
Are we going to start hearing 'cut-and-run' every 5 minutes again now? Where's Holy Joe on this one?
for AIPAC to prepare his statement.
To hell with Holy Joe. I hope he burns in the 7th Circle of Hell when his life is through. Backstabbing traitor. Obama supported him and he didn't have the common courtesy to do one back for him.
I do say I am a moderate, yet I post on a Progressive blog. That's because people here make sense...and they don't advocate the death of Judges, etc.
What Progressive blog? I'll have to visit there sometime. But C&L certainly is a nice moderate blog to visit.
I have to admit, C&L seems a little more to the progressive side.
And that is no insult by any means.
Glad ta have ya.
They blame the past on Clinton and now the future on Obama. Unless of course they deem something to be good in which case the credit goes to Reagan and bush.
...restitution and get the fuck out.
We fucked up. Can't bring back the innocent people we murdered, or heal the permanent and traumatizing injuries of the helpless. The only good thing we can do now is to acknowledge we've been terribly wrong and immediately stop our crimes to save additional lives.
However, President Obama should neither apologize nor pay restitution. Both send an unfortunate political signal. He has enough to do that weakening his authority is a bad idea.
Also, we can't afford restitution.
Yeah uh huh being honest sure does send a bad message alright!
One thing we can do is grant loads of asylum to those who want out. We allowed 12,000 to immigrate to the US last year and 1,600 the year before. And boy was the State Dept proud of THAT increase. Never mind we've displaced MILLIONS.
We have created a whole class of people who will be outcasts in that society, due to their injuries. People who will need life-long care or medical appliances (limbs, repeated surgeries, grafts, colostomy supplies) that won't be available there.
That is our fault, and we have to suck it up, give up our toys and nights out on town to pay these people for the suffering our government has unnecessarily and illegally forced upon them.
But for the actions of the US...that's GWB's lasting legacy.
It won't carry a gram of weight in the Real-politik situation as currently constituted. See Bob Roberts' comment above, concerning the absence of funds to rectify the situation of our own creation and responsibilty...
but it is a nice thought...
But criminals have to pay restitution. I have never seen a judge say "Oh. Well. You can't afford to pay restitution for the damages your wanton depraved criminal acts have caused? Well then, dismissed!" It doesn't work that way.
And frankly, no amount of money we could stump up would pay these people for what the US government under CheneyBushCo has done to them. Even if we had all the money in the world. We certainly have enough money to give Israel.
I am merely pointing out why, logical and compassionate as you are, what you suggest is NAGAHAPUMN@!!!
I know completely meshuggenah
Probably at this point the Iraqis would be willing to call it even, if we would just get out of their country and leave them alone.
I think they'd be very happy to see us leave.
by leaving them Spawn Hammity, Brash Limpballs, Ann Cootie and Michelle Meathead.
Give 'em a start on their monkey house as a goodwill gesture...
What a frigging surprise. My, aren’t the conservatives so very clever.
/snark off
Also, it’s going to be fun watching this talking point blow up in their face, too, you betcha.
There's no way they were seriously contesting the election. Sarah Palin? Chuy.
They got McCain to appear to be plausible.
But there is NO FAROUKING WAY the Pukes wanted to win.
The pukes are as aware as anybody of the condition of country, the state of the nation, the circumstances of the economy, the nature of the peoples' health, the situation of Global Climate Change as anyone else with access to the data.
And they wanted NOTHING TO FUCKING DO WITH IT! They tanked the campaign (and even then it was pretty close: 46% voted against Obama, even though it would have meant the Pukes would have had to have sucked it up and (maybe) dealt with (some small part of) the bushevik clusterfuck array.
Obama's a sacrificial offering. He's thrown into a situation in which no one without truly divine powers could be expected to erely break even.
The fix is in:
The deal is down;
The game is cooked;
The dice are loaded;
The wheels are rigged;
The decks are all marked,
shaved, and stacked;
The dealers cheat,
And the chefs ALL spit in the souffle…
That's just how it is.
Right up until they picked Palin. Then you just knew they and old McBeer didn't want the office they so thoroughly wrecked.
It's only day 2, I'm a Nader voter, but I'm thinking President Obama just might be able to spin straw into gold. Or turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.
that we gave you a black guy so the high of thinking you "elected" Him
would be so high, and the low of his humilation so low, that you would commit mass suicide in Guyana after we return so we can be done with you liberal tools once and for all.
ricky?
or Tyler to spin out in his Corvair.
fool
It is such an obvious strategy I can't believe everybody hasn't figgered it out...
Try for the Trifecta. Don't go taken your medicine on me.
nobody else knows your playing?
what grade are you in, sonny?
Either your snarkitude is beyond me, and therefore I don't get your sense of humor alot...
Or your trying to outdo ysbaddaden with the obsure comments.
(there can be only one)
But something keeps showing up in a few of your comments the last day or so...."you liberals"... either I'm totally misreading you,( which has happened before) if so, I do apologize, but those words are used quite a bit by trolls.
And it's raising red flags in me head.
... is a Highlander?
His mother is heartbroken.
Bloodlines in Western Europe are heavily intertwined. The Celts came from the Caucauses Mountains, or the Ukraine, according to different sources. They spread Westward and settled along the way including Spain and Germany. Spain still shows some of this influence, but whether it came from ancient Celts or during the international popularity of the Mater de Bretagne remains debatable. In Spain, their blood inevitably intermingled with Near Eastern ethnic groups in the later period of El-Andalus. The Celts also settled in Northern France, Brittany, where they also mingled not just with the Franks but the Vikings as well.
Once the Romans controlled the region, Celtic Gods were Latinized in France so instead of god names (that vary region to region),
of the Tuatha de Danaan: Ogma, Dagda, Angus, Govannu etc., you had names like Teutates, Esus, and Taranis.
So in one bundle you have Eastern Europeans, Turks, Spaniards, Germans, French, Romans, Picts and Vikings. The Roman legions also included Alars and Rus for further mingling.
One has to remember that our modern idea of thinking of Europe as States or Nations only date back to the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648.
I think it was Alans not Alars. I've missplaced my source book, and am having to go from memory again.
Our family was from the Berwickshire, split in half by Hadrians Wall, from the river Tweed. They said oddly enough each half was fiercely supportive of their country, and of the entire family despite the wall. We were among the border guard families, on both sides of the wall, dispersed by King James VI when he created Great Britain.
However, not only did we get our last name from the forest where we came from, but there's another region that sounds very similar in the extreme Northeast. We don't know if there's any connection, but that would be another weakspot for invaders.
We also tend to be short and heavy set, with almond shaped eyes making us like highlander/picts. However, one of my parents was decended from Welsh miners, so we could've gotten our builts there.
and you admitted once a relationship to the guy who made Sarah Palin's governorship possible.
The guys at Roswell had almond shaped eyes and they
weren't wearing on kilts.
And what about the Spanish tutor?
and remember that color banner is not just used on a race track.
Not Nascar, anyway...
I was thinkin more along the lines of the Soccer analogy.
Actually, to correct meself....soccer uses red CARDS...right?
and Black flags kill cockaroaches. I prefer merely to agitate the little buggers.
I must point out that if you are comparing me to Ysbaddaden, and others assert he is the Highlander, then surely he would have killed me off by now.
Ysbaddaden might respond by linking you to a poster of the film, chuckling all the while because the Highlander was a Scot played by a Frenchman. He was tutored by a Spaniard played by a Scot.
I would respond by saying that Ysbaddaden freely admits he is an ex Mormon who served in the Air Force while I am merely a common ex-Catholic who sat on the Group W bench until my 4-F came through.
I apologize for the delay but I am serviced by Time-Warner, which should explain things sufficiently.
Obama's election, and the impossibility of the tasks with which he's confronted, along with the inevitable intractability and recalcitrance of the Pukes, will finally discredit 'liberalism' (even if Pres.O. is by no means a liberal), and will prevent the election of any future member of a 'minority' from seeking the office.
WIn/Win for the pukes...
Rev. Rick and RFev. Lowery's prayers are quickly answered.
'splen, pliss
I am only Splainin2Do on mainstream websites where they already have me spam filtered for liberal malevolence.
I'm totally lost now, lol!
is not a sign of 'intellect,' lil ricky...
His comments are off the wall...and not in the funny, cool way...they're bloody confusing!
you would have missed the I Love Lucy connection and not called me Lil Ricky. Now go take your VitaVitaVegamen.
Is that Obama's gonna kick ass and take names woody...
And there plans will backfire on them.
.
I am.
can I get a hell yeah?
affirmation, but Woody would see that as another example of the monolith that is the right pulling a fast one on the liberal sheep.
So I'll just say yeah.
Saying Hell yeah would imply belief in cloud fairies or something.
so...ricky...what are you, liberal? conservative?
somewhere in between? neither?
you are more than a bit confusing.
Some people are so self conscious they will be misunderstood they have to type "snark" all the time. Me, I don't give a shit whether the blog addicted public thinks I am off my medication or not.
Could just be an expression.
And using it doesn't necessarily imply belief in anything.
could just be popping into my sorry little mind every time I read your name. Sorry.
But seriously...the rest of my online moniker has meaning as well the first part.
Because, you're not makin alot of sense here.
Basically, every time you agreed with me ....
Ok I stand corrected, thanks Bob!
I didn't like his movie but he is a great folk singer.
You're just makin oddball comments to get attention.
Some are funny, I gotta admit, but dude...most are just weird.
full blown from the head of....
Unlike Vietnam, if Iraq goes to hell, this time around, it'll be a Republican's legacy, not a Democrat's legacy. And no matter how they try to spin their way out of it, the public will be there to remind the Repugs that they "had their chance" to get it right.
Eisenhower started the Vietnam invasion; Nixon ended it. But the Dims are blamed.
The Dims now OWN the "wars," the economic collapse, the climate change problem, everything.
And they'll be blamed for it, one way or the other...
had been dicking around. Don't forget, the manufactured 'Gulf of Tonkin' incident, something the Democratic gov't staged to make it a full on bloody catastrofuck.
concentrated on killing the Corvair instead of the Cong. Instead they let Nader get the credit.
Truman started giving Pacific Theatre equipment to the French for their colony of Indochina. Hellcats and Avengers and such.
Oh, who cares; it was a Big fustercluck anyway ya look at it.
but REAL Technical often hurts.
And the U.S. media -- especially the Associated Press and neocon pundits -- will take delight in reporting on the back-and-forth between the Obama administration and the GOP.
The press will leave out the fact that a majority of the Iraqi government wants us out of their country ASAP and, therefore, should take responsibility for any security failures at that point.
Iraqi WAS a democratic country. the US and the Brits did not like that, so we changes it and put in the a dictator. the (?) shaw, the guy befor the I-a-tola. once again the leaders in our country f-ed up things.
Your reference to the Shah seems to refer to Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi of Iran who got reinstalled by the CIA and Britain through Project Ajax, 1952, when we helped overthrow Premier Muhammad Mossadeq.
Rush has dropped out of reality. Rush Linbaugh is a dead ender.
This senseless war in Iraq is not his war. And this cost money why will American tax payers still continue the Bush war when it cost trillion dollars a a month to maintain. The American troops has better served their country in a more legitimate war than being maimed and killed to protect the Bush and Cheney's oil interest in that country. The money that was spent there could have helped the nation out of debt.
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