Russia Accuses Georgia On Bomb Blast
By Steve Hynd Sunday Oct 05, 2008 2:00pm
On Friday, a car bomb blew up three civilians and eight Russian soldiers, including a senior officer, in the disputed South Ossetia region of Georgia. Russia blames the Georgian secret service for the blast, saying they are trying to destabilize the fragile ceasefire while the Georgians (rather less believably) say the explosion was a false flag operation - that Russia blew up its own peacekeeping troops in order to blame Saakashvili's government and to give an excuse for delaying an expected pullback of Russian troops. However, the Georgian interior ministry spokesman who made the counter-allegation offered no evidence that the Russians had any actual plans to delay their pullback.
It's a messy incident, one that shows the Caucusus conflict is far from finished creating tensions both in the region and globally, and also offers more opportunity for observers to question just how trustworthy and truthful Saakashvili's regime is being. The original midnight all-out attack on his own region's capital which started the whole current confrontation might be reason enough for some - Colin Powell certainly seems to be in that camp - but now Georgian opposition members are also calling attention back to last years elections and widespread abuses of both opposition members and the press.
Saakashvili had widespread support even among the opposition immediately after the August war with Russia, but the country's domestic problems were quick to resurface, said Salome Zurabishvili, who previously served as foreign minister under Saakashvili.
"The balance has shifted," she said. "The main problem for Georgia is a lack of democracy."
..."He is building an authoritarian regime here," said Levan Gachechiladze, an opposition candidate for president earlier this year who finished second with about 25 percent of the vote. "The West closed its eyes because they were not ready . . . to change their so-called democratic star."
And human rights observers agree:
Human Rights Watch released a report on the incident in which it said that the West previously had ignored "warning signs that the government was not only failing to live up to the principles of the rule of law and human rights it espoused during the Rose Revolution, but taking many serious steps to undermine these principles."
That included "quick resort to use of force by law enforcement agents," the report said.
Sozar Subari, the Georgian government's human-rights ombudsman, has documented what he terms severe human-rights abuses by government forces as well as elections in which police intimidated voters on a widespread basis and a corrupt elite that's allowed to use state offices to its own ends.
In several cases, Subari said in a report to parliament, armed men in ski masks beat up the administration's political enemies. He named two high-profile cases in 2005 and 2007. Subari said it was clear that the attackers were being protected from prosecution in such a way "that implies the involvement of several high-rank(ing) officials."
All this is a far cry from the Mccain campaign's rosy view of the Georgian leader. Both Mccain himself and his chief adviser Randy Scheunemann are very close to Saakashvili and have continually boosted the conflict as a fight between democracy and authoritarianism. Maybe not so much.
But if there are questions to be asked about Georgia's democracy, you won't hear them from the Presidential candidates. During the foreign policy debate, Obama said that he and McCain "agree for the most part" on Russia and how the US should respond. Which leaves open the question of where US/Russian relations might go under a new incumbent at the White House. Masha Lipman, editor of the Carnegie Moscow Center's Pro et Contra journal, in a recent op-ed for the Washington Post, was pessimistic.
Unlike the conflicts of the Cold War, the confrontation between Russia and the United States today is not driven by a desire to destroy each other and lacks a clear goal. Russia demands that the West recognize it as an equal and respect its interests, but it won't specify those interests. It's likely they include expanding Russian control over Ukraine, but it is inconceivable that the Kremlin would say so publicly. Meanwhile, the demand that Russia "behave" and adhere to international norms raises important questions: Is punishing Russia America's top priority, a goal to be pursued even if it means putting European security at risk? Is the resolve to punish Russia driven only by U.S. national interests, or is there another, irrational element?
...Relations between Russia and the United States have entered a dangerous stalemate. America can't accept Russia's aggressive posture, but U.S. anger is only making things worse. The risk of Russia slipping toward an isolationist course and a militarized economy is growing. Events of the 20th century indicate that in the long term, Moscow's own irrational pursuits may prove more baneful to Russia than any foreign adversary. But in the short term, Russia's neighbors as well as European security could be at great risk.
I would add that in America too, an aggressive posture and irrational pursuits seem to be the order of the day. There are obvious reasons for both candidates to play up a "resurgent Russian menace" - no-one ever lost votes in America by appearing hawkish. And of course the neocon lobby which McCain is wholeheartedly part of loves the notion of perpetual threat of war for the "shock and awe" effect it can have on pushing through legislation conceived in the neocon ideological love for the military option and hatred for the trappings of international consensus. But the long-term the current surge of nostalgia for the days when the former Soviet union was the Evil Empire is also hurting American interests - particularly securing loose nuclear material, perpetuating arms control treaties and keeping an option open for supplying (or evacuating) troops in Afghanistan if relations with Pakistan break down entirely.
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I fell fine...........
Should have said "feel".....damn old fingers
Oh, bullshit. The world didn't end after the Plague of Justinian scythed half of Europe down. The US and Russia in a pissing match is just same ol' same ol'. And Russia needs to recreate the USSR. It would bring some order back to that part of the world.
World War Three, when are you coming for me
We set the fire, and let the flames free
World War Three, oh now what'll it be,
I house on fire, or the rising sea?
The Arcade Fire.
Crooks and Liars new Blog template wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the unnessary space above the banner. The links above the banner "Blue America", "Late Night Music Club" and "Login & Register" can be moved down to the left of the Search Box. Doing this would bump up the banner, which in turn would show more of the latest blog entry.
Why have a link above the banner that states "Crooks and Liars" when you already have a "Home" button below the banner? Doesn't make sense. Delete the "Crooks and Liars" link, and like I stated above, relocate all the links above the banner to below the banner left of the Search Box.
Here's the real story of McHero.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081006/schanberg
What do you make of this quote from John McCain in an interview in 1998?
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1998/...
[quote] You could say, Look, is this guy, Laden, really the bad guy that's depicted? Most of us have never heard of him before. [/quote]
This was September 1998, right after the August 7th, 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Africa by Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda.
Would you believe that John McCain had a vested interest in protecting Bin Laden then?
Why?
John McCain sat on the board of the US Council for World Freedom.
http://www.namebase.org/sources/JN.html
The USCWF is the US chapter of the World Anti-Communist League. WACL, described - by former member (Conservative British Member of Parliament) Geoffrey Stewart-Smith - as 'largely a collection of Nazis, Fascists, anti-Semites, sellers of forgeries, vicious racialists, and corrupt self-seekers.'
The book exposing WACL came out in 1986:
"Inside The League: The Shocking Expose Of How Terrorists, Nazis, And Latin
American Death Squads Have Infiltrated The World Anti-Communist League."
Scott Anderson and Jon Lee Anderson. Dodd Mead, New York, 1986. 352 pages.
$19.95 hardcover. ISBN 0-396-08517-2. Publication date May 28, 1986.
http://www.holysmoke.org/wb/wb0312.htm
[quote] For over ten years progressive researchers in this country and in Europe
have been uncovering evidence linking certain American conservatives and
rightists to racist and fascist movements around the globe through a shadowy
organization called the World Anti-Communist League. Now the book "Inside the
League" exposes the hidden nature of the League and documents in devastating
detail a parade of League-affiliated authoritarian ideologues marching from
the death camps of Nazi Germany into the parlors of Reagan's White House.
The idea for the book came when Jon Lee Anderson was researching a series
of columns on Latin American death squads for Jack Anderson, (Jon Lee's
employer but not his relative). Enlisting the aid of his brother Scott, the
two first began tracing the connections between the death squads but soon were
unravelling networks and alliances that involved terrorists, Nazi
collaborators, racists, assassins, anti-Jewish bigots, and right-wing anti-
communist American politicians. The one factor all had in common was their
involvement with the World Anti-Communist League.
The Latin American death squads, for instance, were found to be linked
through an umbrella group of Central and South American rightists called the
Latin American Anti-Communist Confederation (CAL). CAL in turn was affiliated
with the World Anti-Communist League (WACL), lead by a retired U.S. Major
General, John Singlaub. Singlaub boasts WACL is the coordinating body for
raising private aid for the Contras, a task supported explicitly by the Reagan
White House which has sent government officials and glowing letters of support
to WACL meetings in recent years.
WACL also serves as an umbrella for several Eastern European emigre groups
founded and lead by Nazi collaborators, and there is far more. As the Anderson
brothers write:
"We have examined the World Anti-Communist League...because it is the one
organization in which representatives of virtually every right-wing extremist
movement that has practiced unconventional warfare are to be found. The League
is the one constant in this netherworld; whether looking at Croation
terrorists, Norwegian neo-Nazis, Japanese war criminals, or American ultra-
rightists...." (p. x, Author's Note).
WACL is more than a club for aging facists and their modern-day hero-
worshipers, it serves as the primary coordinating body through which anti-
communist groups meet and debate and implement strategies to prop up anti-
Communist authoritarian regimes and defeat popular movements for social and
political liberation around the world. The current strategy is to avoid when
possible the use of military troops - and use instead a process called
"unconventional warfare". This practice is employed by the Reagan
administration but couched in popular terminology with calls for supporting
heroic "freedom fighters" such as the Contras. [/quote]
Why is any of this relevant?
McCain sat on the board of the same group that not only dealt with the Contras in Nicaragua but actively sought to set up a chapter to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.
Osama Bin Laden headed the Afghanistan chapter of WACL.
John McCain was on the board of the US chapter of WACL.
McCain and Bin Laden were in the same organization.
You say anti-communist like that's a bad thing. Frankly, opposing horrors like the USSR and the Khmer Rouge is good. Also frankly, someone should have done the same to us when we were imposing our rule over the Indians.
Remember, millions went into Auschwitz, but more than 14 walked out. 17,000 went into Tuol Sleng and only 14 walked out. Yeah, I'll support those old Commies, support their rotting in jail the way the Nazis should have done.
Clearly you didn't read what I wrote carefully.
".. WACL also serves as an umbrella for several Eastern European emigre groups founded and lead by Nazi collaborators""
Dave - which particular " several Eastern European" countries/groups/orgs are you referring to ?
I'd think it could be true for some Southern American regimes w/history of German Nazis accommodating. Kuomintang, Chiang Kai-shek - quite the opposite side of the world. I've been to Taiwan on business before China's occupation, and they were doing very well, much better than today's China despite the small size.
McCain has been a lose canon all his life, always looking for some agenda to gain free points. Too bad he didn't stay with his 'hero' status - but, never was any smart, 5th off the tail in 900 class, at his prime.
This man has so many skeletons in his closet of horrors that he's pretty brave trying to smear Obama.....then we can go to Sickpack's own closet of skeletons.....if he wants a real fight.
McCain & Abramoff, McCain & Charles Keating, McCain & Vicky Iseman, McCain's "real" health records....just to name a few.....
Here's more:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200810040004?f=...
Did I forget income tax evasion in not listing gambling income? Did I forget Miss Half Baked Alaska's own tax fraud of not paying taxes on her $60,000 per diem? Did I forget the Republican who filed suit yesterday regarding Miss Piggy's criminal email situation? Then there's the results of troopergate due out this Friday for which McCain's "thugs" tried to strongarm the judge but lost?
The fact is that John McCain has so many skeletons which will be rolled out that it will look like Halloween came early.
The McCain Campaign - DOA by mid-October.
Why is the false flag possibility considered "rather less [believable]"? We are talking about KGB Polonium Putin; unless you have evidence that the operation is not a false flag, just assuming it isn't exposes you to the danger of being manipulated by false flag operations. That is precisely why they (false flag ops) work. I am not saying it was, but I mean who knows; there are deaths on the battlefield, and cynical military planner perhaps just assume the propaganda element of war should have casualties just like any other. Perhaps the senior officer had transgressed in some way, and this would be a good way to kill two birds with one stone (alienate Georgia, dispose of troublesome officer). Political assassinations are a reality. My point is, you just have no idea, until you analyze the situation; and then often you still don't know, because the information is just not available to you.
I agree. Georgia doing this would be incredibly stupid, even by Saakashvili's standards. I wouldn't put it past Putin/Medvedev one bit. There are many other ethnic groups in the area who would love to see Russia and Georgia go back at it, as well. Maybe Chechnya did it? Who knows.
The reason that Georgia's claim that this is a "false flag" operation by Russia is "less believable" is because Georgia started this in the first place and tried to blame it on Russia the last time!
...also who would believe a guy (Saakashvili) ...who chews on his tie while on national TV!
Saakashvili eats tie. (28 sec.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDFVQ-H7V-U
Russia was pushing this conflict to a head for years. Russia has been arming South Ossetian separatists for years, allowing them to resupply and recruit in North Ossetia. Russia was one of the handful of countries to recognize South Ossetia's declaration of independence from Georgia. In July of this year a spokesman for the Union of Russia and Belarus said that South Ossetia and Abkhazia had discussed becoming members of that union, but would first have to be recognized internationally before being given membership.
Did Georgia fire the first shots in this war? Depends on when you think the war started. Assuming that they did, I can only say that they were driven to it. Georgia didn't simply go off its nut like, say, France did after Bismarck released the Ems Telegram. Georgia saw a legitimate threat of a Russian presence south of the Caucasus, controlling the Roki Tunnel and the Kodori Gorge, the two best routes for moving troops and supplies through the mountains.
South Ossetia had a pre-war population of approximately 70,000 people, 18,000 of whom were Georgians- Georgians who have now been effectively removed from South Ossetia. Do you think Russia went in there to protect 52,000 people from the yoke of Georgian oppression? Does the word Chechenya mean anything to you?
Did Georgia react stupidly? Yes, in that they let events escalate far beyond their control. But are they responsible for this war? I don't think so.
The problem I see here, in the prog-o-sphere, is that the friend (Georgia) of my enemy (Bushco) is my enemy, so the enemy (Russia) of my enemy(Georgia, Bushco) must be my friend. Sorry, I don't see it so simply.
Russians are not especially good at subtlety. Putin would have done this slightly more overtly.
And the thought of the KGB that shipped a Muslim terrorist's brother's balls to him to stop him from fucking with the USSR producing a man that understands subtlety in statecraft is no more believable than Bush suddenly becoming a champion of democracy.
When the Georgian/Russian tension came to a head in August there was misinformation regarding who actually started that particular conflict. Our newspapers for the most part blamed Russia initially.
Why should we not believe the Russian's assertion regarding this car bomb considering the quality of truth that is parceled out to us regarding the Caucusus conflict?
then it just shows how desperate the Georgian Government is at this point. The Georgians, as many have stated, appear to have started this conflict and thought the Bush Administration would be there to back them up if needed. It didn't happen. So now Saakashvili is desperate to do anything in order to shore up his credibility. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the Bush Administration backed this particular attack against the Russians. Acts of terrorism, is about the only tool left for them to use against Russia now.
Dammmit, the Russians should just take over Georgia and the Ukraine and have done with it. The Georgians and Ruthenians can no more manage their own affairs than East Timor has done since it broke free of Indonesia.
The Soviet/Russian TROLL defrosted out of hibernation ... You are no different from our beloved Dick-tator Cheney.
I will NOT engage in any sparring with you, always leading to nowhere - I am not on anybody's payroll, nor assigned to C&L as you are. Shame on you to even dare to say such atrocious stuff, Mr fascist Doody-Doo Armchair General. One has to be pretty demented to make such statements.
Please tell me that you seriously don't think the Soviets weren't better leaders of that part of the world than their successors.
I'd take Brehznev over Putin any day.
Just testing to see if this is working the right way
I kind of like this new format. I even like the login feature.
"Russia demands that the West recognize it as an equal and respect its interests, but it won't specify those interests."
Bullcrap. Russia's interests include not having NATO on it's borders; having enough customers for it's gas and oil supplies/pipelines; not being suppressed by the unilateralism of a US-dominated hegemony; being able to make money through weapons sales; trying to look confident and aggressive to keep Putin's/Medvedev's approval rating at 80%; etc.
anyone who says that Russia won't "specify its interests" are the same people who say that others hate us because we are free. They simply don't want you to think. Just agree that they are bad people, and shut the F up.
Russia has the right to conduct its affairs as freely as any other nation in the world. Just don't mistake the nation that gave birth to Ivan IV and the USSR for a nation of saints. They are no more that way than we Americans are.
Why is my screen pink now? I hate this new format! :(
While inhaling the Soviet/Russian major bs PROPAGANDA, you are missing the most important: Putin uses the U.S. pre-election and financial meltdown chaos to advance Soviet/Russian/fascist agenda and cover up domestic chaos of falling apart (never developed!) economy !! Forget what's this or that within/little Georgia proper- it's irrelevant for the bigger picture and final outcome.
See DYING INSIDE Behind the Bluster, Russia Is Collapsing
Bush has weakened American standing all over the world, he created a REAL threat to the U.S. security - by any cocky chieftain. Like KGB fascist Putin, who unfortunately has the nucs.
The progressing Russian takeover of Georgia is just a small part of much bigger Russian LEBENSRAUM - UKRAINE is next. Putin works to destabilize Europe (energy..)and the entire world, to continue sucking out immense Ukrainian resources, as they did under the USSR, while preventing Ukraine from developing their economy (Julia Timoshenko is a Russian tool).
In addition to vast natural resources, Ukraine has been historically a 'breadbasket' of the entire Europe. It did produce more in agricultural sector in 16-17th centuries than under the USSR disasterous centralized economy. It is similar (233,000sq miles-44th in the world) in size to France(260,000sq miles-40th in the world), with only 46 mln of population (France: 64 mln). If not the full takeover, Russia drives for partition of Ukraine, with cutting off Ukrainian Black Sea access.
Georgian borders are NOW recognized by the world international bodies, PERIOD. There NEVER was 'independent' Ossetia, Abkhazia, etc.
Small Georgia w/out any military cannot 'attack' Russia, or anybody. Russia the pitbull is an EXPERT in provocations. The same way as Nazi navy ship Schleswig Holstein had to start the WW2 shooting at/bombing the Polish Westerplatte (during the naval school friendly visit to Gdansk, Sept 1, 1939) - yeah, the Polish 'corridor' was the issue, Nazis had to have free accress to the east, not as the League of Nations decided, entire Europe and Poles were going by.
LEBENSRAUM (google, wiki this!)was the name of the Nazi program of Goebbels. Putin is consequently realising the Soviet/Russian LEBENSRAUM to control as much of the world as the world will swallow, here to CUT-OFF Europe from Asia (check the map!! pipelines or not..
Georgia is the only 'problem' to have 'free-flow' w/IRAN !!) - minimal population of Abhazia and Ossetia has very LITTLE to do with Caucasian native tribes - by now they are naturalized/virtual/transplanted Russians, with Russian passports that were being issued by Russia to ANYBODY who would take it since1991. They currently do the same in the eastern Ukraine, around Donsk, etc - Ukraine is the next on their list, Russia will be demanding Crimea for the Soviet-Russian Black Sea fleet, and Russian 'minority' will AGAIN whine of being abused - demanding the Russian 'peacekeepers'.'peacekeeper' and 'Russian' IS an OXYMORON !!
After 1990, hordes of 'tourists', burly Russian men w/money 'invaded' Poland seeking marriages w/ Polish women (stupid if they went for this..), trying to get the 'permanent stay' status, w/ Russian citizenship 'guaranteed" for the women, and children of the marriages. The quick reaction of the Poles and public outcry stopped that - it was quickly recognized for another attempt to destabilize Poland and a payback for SOLIDARITY dismantling the whole 'happy soviet camp'.
After WW2 and the Yalta treason, Soviets refused to permit return to Poland millions of Polish citizens deported by Soviets to gulags from the Polish territories in the aftermath of the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact, and Soviet 1939 invasion of Poland from the East, while Nazis were shredding it from the West. The OFFICIAL
reason: these Soviet prisoners were declared by Soviets being Soviet citizens, 'granted' the Soviet citizenship without EVER asking for it, or, knowing - therefore NOT eligible for repatriation back to Poland. Only in the 1960-ties, after Stalin's death some were allowwed to get back to Poland. Tens of thousands DIED in Soviet gulags, as involuntary Soviet citizens.
A highly educated American, I served as a top level officer w/UNOMIG (the UN military observer Mission for Georgia-Abkhazia), there NEVER was any independent 'Mission' for Ossetia. I am fluent in most languages of the region, the cultures, history - all the works. The 'peacekeeper' and 'Russian' IS an OXYMORON, for pete's sake ! That's how they destabilized fmr Yugoslavia, leading to massive slaughter - a historical Russian 'specialty'. Russia is doing it now w/Georgia, knowing that demented booosh administration has hands full w/domestic election problems, collapse of our economy, and ??maybe a US martial law, uhm, DIRECTIVE 51 coming alive. Georgia is desperate, has NO SAY in any of it.
When the Anschluss happened, there was no reaction, when Hitler took over 'sudettenLand' not a mouse squeeled - when he attacked Poland it was too late to avoid the WORLD war. Why, oh why, the US education is so deficient, also in history ??! Why always a very petty approach ?
It's easier to rule the sheeple, but why the sheeple just go shopping on the net, and do NOT LEARN anything ??
We are ONE world, like it or not. Unless we get rid of ALL the SUVs, and 10K sq ft macMansions as "American' right, the pipelines are needed as well. It's a long way to US energy independence, even if Obama wins, and tries to get us some ENERGY policy. Putin/his KGB know that also - and PLAY on US sheeple stupidity !
P.S. After the outrage of granting Olympics to China, the next winter Games were awarded to Russia,Sochi 2014 - a Black Sea sleepy resort, within EYE distance from ports and RESOURCES of Abhazia.
Russians have only few years left to suck out all the juice of Georgia, under whatever title, to get their Olympics ready. Long live the IOC !!! And, the "Russian history of PEACE". snark ...
God in Heaven, why does everybody keep saying that every damn thing that happens has a WWII parallel? Why not show some creativity? Say, Napoleonic Wars or WWI or Mongol Wars of Conquest?
My God, not everything in the 20th Century, or even most of it, will repeat in this one.
[Deleted. Abusive. Saying it once was probably once more than you should have. Twice is definitely too much. Don't try to start a flamewar. And please quit shouting. Thank you. Site Monitor]
Does it cost too much to find an original way to accuse me of support of the Soviet Union? I hardly think murdering 60 million people was justified, but the USSR was a better choice than Adolf Hitler's gang of loons.
Now the soviets are fascists, lmao. Wasn't there just a story a few years back on how the Russian people stopped the government take over by pouring into the street and taking back their government? Far from fascist the people in that country stand up for what they believe in, so I think any way. It's more than what we as Americans do, we are fascists that is the fact or at least controlled by them, the minority.
Governed my magical freaks, woot.
The Soviets were undoubtedly murderous, authoritarian bastards. No decent government deliberately starves its own people or does what the USSR did in the Baltics. Even as murderous as the Soviets were, Stalin's quite the piker compared to Pol Pot in terms of sheer genocidal efficiency. Or to Mao or even to Hitler.
Even so, I'd rather the Soviets return and be bastards to everybody and clamp down over their old empire than the sorry bunch of bastards that replaced them. The Soviets were no better and no worse than a great deal of regimes and had to deal with a great deal of crap for having the gall to treat white men like white men treated brown and yellow men in that era.
And as I said, I'd rather deal with the old devil of the USSR than any of the new fuckers that replaced them.
I believe, USA is being bad here. Can any one say Northwoods?
We have a long proven history of false flag OPs. The nasty war people are gonna try whatever they can to stop this election. Do they seriously think the American people will take it again like we have in the past?
Do they think a new "cold war" will make us forget and join the military?
Is every one ready to get shot, jailed, raped, torchered, like an Iraqi?
Why do we want to fight Russia? I hope Russia will hold on for the election at least, I'd rather hear Obama explain why we need to implement a draft. So sick of the dumb white monkeys the pentagon are appointing to office. Least let us have a guy with some charisma, to continue with the global nwo take over , jeez.
Well...it's not like getting the American people to attack defenseless people is that hard. Just ask the Navajo or the Apache or the Haudenosaunee.
Or the Iraqis.
The USA has a long history of killing anyone that tries to block them from getting whatever they want: especially money and natural resources. In recent years, they've started TORTURING people to increase results. Give us what we demand or we'll rain phosphorous bombs down on your people. (See Fallujah.)
That's why I don't believe anything the US government says anymore. Why should I?
And how does that make the US any better or any worse than any other government? Britain had a 19th Century hobby of going in and shooting the shit out of African tribes, especially when there was no justifiable reason for it. Japan virtually annihilated the Ainu as people, on top of atrocities in China that rival the Germans in Russia.
Why should we believe any government, whether London or Tokyo or Berlin?
Did they find and "Country First" buttons near the blast? Conflict in Georgia might be just the boost needed by McCain, right about now.
As a newly verified member, as I was reading comments, a message told me there was a new comment posted, but I have no idea where, not without going through the entire comments section again. That part isn't so great. Just sayin'.
Nicole: As a newly verified member, you should see a red box and a "NEW" button next to the new posts since the last time you refreshed. It's taking some getting used to, but hopefully, we'll all get the hang of it soon enough.
Just click the link, and it will direct you to the new post. It's a rather neat feature.
it pops up while you type a short comment, but if you're typing a feww paragraphs and five new comments come in, all over the thread...not so helpful.
Ach, ja. Ich sehe.
Correct me if I am wrong General R but you appear to be arguing that Russia has some sort of right to take over their neighbors because somehow it suits your version of stability. I've never seen you post such nonsense before. Don't you think that maybe these neighbors of Russia might have some sort of rights to self determination? Whether the comparison is to Nazis or Soviets, fascism is fascism. When did this become your shtick?
I don't see that it would take Russia to return calm. And I certainly don't think Russia cares too much about anything but re-establishing the empire- though just how far (Poland? The post-WWII satellites?) I'm not sure.
But when you start talking about self-determination, Peter, you open the door for 50,000 (not a typo: FIFTY THOUSAND) South Ossetians- less people than live in my quarter of Grand Rapids (proper)- to threaten the security of Georgia (and let's face it- South Ossetia doesn't want independence, they want to join the Russian Federation). There's got to be a threshhold where you say no to secessionists.
Indeed there does need to be a limit on self determination. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that Russia has no inherent right to control their neighbors. They have no right to threaten the Ukraine should they decide to accede to NATO. With regard to the Ossetians, a lot would depend on how they have been treated or will be treated by the government of Georgia. The U.N now recognizes that states owe a duty of care to all their citizens.See the U.N Covenant Part 11, Article 2.
By the Russians saying the Georgians are responsible for the bombing, they are REALLY saying the the U.S. is behind the bombing.
because as a proxy, Georgia wouldn't act like that unless their handlers knew of it, or gave approval to it.
Maybe this was done by the Chechens.
Just a matter of time before Canada "thankfully" gets out of Afganistan and this is the common sense behind it. Hmmm....common and sense vs American policy & war-mongering. Yep, this makes so much sense.
A GREAT READ. About 5 minutes from acclaimed world correspondent...Eric Margolis.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/cernig/russia-a...
Sorry...here is the link.
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/...
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