A Truth Commission Now, War Crime Prosecutions To Follow
By Steve Hynd Thursday Feb 12, 2009 4:00pm
There's a new poll out from Gallup and USA Today which one is headlining as showing there's "no mandate for criminal prosecutions" and the other is headlining as showing that "most want an enquiry" into whether Bush's anti-terror policies broke the law.
Those headlines aren't mutually incompatible. There's a hard core of around 30% of Americans who still cleave to Bush as a hero, an unsung genius who can do no wrong and think that a president can just declare actions legal and be done with it. There's a slightly larger core of those who want America to return to the fold of the rule of law, presidential accountability and humanity. They've done some homework and realise that anti-terror tactics during the Bush Years were built upon the kind of deliberately twisted legal reasoning that got Nazi lawyers hanged at Nuremberg. And there's a group - the undecideds - who want to know more before they make their minds up, and would understandably prefer the evidence to come from official governmental sources rather than liberal blogs and human rights groups. They want to trust their government and want that government to bring the facts out in the open. That's just human nature and trying to spin the two different headlines about results of this poll as some liberal conspiracy is just being dishonest.
So give the people a Truth Commission. Let the evidence be made public in official hearings rather than tucked away in little-read reports from human rights groups about the Defense Department's co-operation in running CIA secret prisons or in obscure blog posts citing studies showing the military have "disappeared over 24,000 video tapes of detainee interrogations. Let's not rely on whether foreign officials and judges bow to blackmail in hoping to get details of why someone had his penis repeatedly sliced because he once read a satirical article online. Let's get those Bush officials who have admitted their administration engaged in torture up on the witness stand, under oath.
We need to send an overwhelming and clear message to Obama and those among his cabinet who don't want to see justice served. Two thirds of America want this. Give it to them if that's the people's will - that's called "moving forward". Then as the evidence unfolds we'll see how America feels about prosecutions, and about making sure such inhuman acts can never again by perpetrated wholesale by a White House under cover of blanket secrecy and legal lies. I'm betting that America will overwhelmingly want to see those guilty have their day in court.
Crossposted from Newshoggers
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is thier a question mark or an exclamation mark here?
Progressives need to be creating public pressure to get Obama to do the right thing and prosecute the criminals. Or failing that, to ensure his refusal to prosecute (and thus complicity) is a big part of the nomination/election conversation next time around.
Prosecutions or one term - Obama's choice.
That might be naive of me, as many have told me, but I'd like to think it's a sense of honor and justice: people shouldn't just give way to expediency when war crimes are the subject.
Regards, C
I always respect your opinions and comments but I have to object to this one. The President does appoint the Attorney General but cannot legally order him to investigate crimes. It is a position appointed for representing "We The People." It is up to the DOJ to investigate the crimes, not the President.
I'm a non-native and sometimes miss technicalities like that. But that just shifts the focus of the pressure, doesn't it?
Regards, C.
...he can kiss my vote in 2012. that's a promise.
As worthy as this cause might be, the American people will more likely support over the long haul a complete investigation of the blatant theft that occurred during the Bush Administration, from no-bid contracts to well-connected, Republican friends, to the billions of dollars that simply went missing (stolen) in Iraq. That's something Americans can understand and really sink their teeth into, especially during these hard economic times. It's also more likely to be the one thing that will put some of the Bush criminals where they belong...in jail.
As horrific are torture, extraordinary rendition, etc., I think the central motivation for the Crimes of the Bush Administration was War Profiteering. 9-11 gave the pretext to invade Afghanistan and Iraq where trillions have been mis-spent or stolen and, most importantly, just plain wasted on two wars that should never have been fought in the first place, engineered by the very persons who profitted most, the Wartime Contractors.
Commission on Wartime Contracting
More at site.
Compare the Nye Committee which studied the causes of United States' involvement in World War I and issued this report: the Report of the Special Committee on Investigation of the Munitions Industry.
..which just only adds an extra element of evil to the entire affair. The profit motive element makes it all the more necessary to visit justice upon these persons.
Problem with a "Truth Commission" is that they may immunize those who should be prosecuted to get to the truth. Senator Leahy has said time and again that "NO ONE" is above the law, unfortunately giving immunity to get to the truth does just that, put people above the law. What we need is a Special Prosecutor to investigate, indict and prosecute in a court of law, trials are all we need to get to the truth. We already know what the crimes are and who perpetrated them.
Anybody who feels strongly about this should email the Senator and tell him how and why he's screwing up.
Find them not guilty and then parachute their butts into Baghdad in broad daylight.
I only hope we have enough facts to build a preponderance... Because the simple statement(s), "I can't recall" and "I plead the 5th", once incorporated are difficult to disprove...
allow those who have been tortured to come forward? Will we hear from the Iraqi father who held his dead daughter in his arms after she had been raped and murdered by goons? Will the thousands of orphans come forward to say to the American people how it feels to never know a Mother's love? And on and on and on from innocent people whose land we invaded and occupied for oil? Whose heritage we watch destroyed?
Will a Truth Commission show the American people the heinous deeds of men and women who ran the gulags and what happened to people there? Will we see the planes who took men, beaten and bloody, from one place to another, from one prison to another to end up at Gitmo to suffer in isolation, humiliation and horror while they witness unspeakable torture to those around them?
No?
Then fuck your Truth Commission Leahy. You want to hide, distort, obfuscate and delay until we are sick to death knowing all this is still going on under new management.
You will never wash the bloody stench from your hands, from the hands of those who could have stood up and yelled from the rooftops, ENOUGH! and put impeachment as a first order of the day, every day. But no, now the cowards want to sweep all this human misery under a rug.
Truth? What about JUSTICE?
Possibly as many as one in three Americans think that "justice" is not being done because Bush is not being venerated and because a Democrat is in the Oval Office. Certainly millions of Americans think that an investigation would be politically motivated and that any findings against Bush Co. would be the result of "partisan politics" and would be unjust.
Either a Truth Commission investigation or the results of lawsuits by private citizens may uncover enough to make a criminal investigation viable politically. Start with those.
All the evidence a prosecutor and jury would need already exist in the form of surviving governmemnt documents. Even Cheney couldn't shred enough documents to innoculate himself from prosecution. It is probable eye witness accounts may not even be needed, given the richness of the incriminating evidence that is probably available. It could be a repeat of Nuremburg, where much of the evidence was provided by the nazis own fastidious record keeping.
What really amuses me about "The American Thinker" is that the have so little confidence in the strength of their logic that they have to shore up the credibility wit the name of their site. Maybe they ought to name it "The Site with Really, Really Smart People Who Think A Lot All The Time." Sheesh.
"... whether Bush's anti-terror policies broke the law." What exactly are people questioning? Do they still believe that there was supposed to be a connection between Iraq and Al-Qaeda or that there was a connection between Iraq and 09/11/01? Eight years later those suspicions have still proven to be disingenuous. Both Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded and occupied under extremely specious reasons. Any other country's leaders would have been tried in the Hague for war crimes but the U.S. does not have to worry about that since it has conveniently decided not to belong to that organization.
Perhaps Obama is worried that if an investigation is undertaken that he also may be accused of ordering innocent civilians blown apart by 500 lb. American bombs.
What the hell is there to investigate? Honestly. These people have came right out and admitted they broke the law, and then gave everybody else the finger. A truth commission? Ya right. "I plead the 5th" "I don't recall" "it depends on what your definition of is, is"...it's all hogwash.
At least all the pigs are clean.
Well another "Commission" will make sure all the pigs look clean. Commissions are used to cover up crimes, not investigate them. Then they write a nice 13,000 page summary, that nobody without a degree in Fork Tongue, can understand.
Here's an idea. Take the 9/11 commission findings. Rip the cover off the damn thing, and put on a new cover with all new shiny Iraq War Crimes written on it. It will do as much good.
i'm for the truth commission. i'm also for justice. having said that i don't believe anyone will do time or be found guilty of wrongdoing. that's NOT to say we shouldn't proceed. i believe that the white house DOJ specifically Yoo and Addington covered the BUSH/cheney administration for all the possible scenarios. they will somehow be able to distance themselves from the retention torture. i read somewhere that dogs where used on detainees...the dogs were forced upon them sexually. i believe the u.s.,u.k. and the host countries are concerned about reprecussions/consequences. i've said this before and i believe i could be mistaken, that torture was used and leaked to escalate the war(s). the irony is saddam was said to be an evil ruler who tortured. i'm NOT saying we shouldn't try to reveal the truth but the question will be at what cost.
cost be damned. Investigate!
ron, i agree for the most part. what i'm saying is it could put a lot of innocent people in danger. there could be reprecussions. i'm just saying. beyond that i think they're somehow covered.
in the future that could be in danger if theydon't investigate and expose the truth. Behind every criminal lurks another that will try to get away with another crime.
i was thinking would certain groups in iraq,iran,pakistan and afghanistan be pissed enough to take matters in their own hands if they don't believe those found/believed to be guilty received adequate punishment. whatever........but i believe the BUSH people are/were three steps ahead of everyone.
They are fully paid up members of the War Criminal and Fiends Club
whole villages of people were forced to go to the death camps to view the ovens, the piles of bodies, the stench and horror that they were too unwilling to believe was going on all around them.
We can't force people to go to Iraq, to Gitmo, to see what was done in their name. So we will clean up the truth with a commission made up of who? Who do you trust? People like the 9/11 commission? What a farce.
..whether anybody actually goes to prison. What is important is the repudiation of the astonishing criminality and sociopathy of these last few years. Regardless of sentencing, conviction prevents the precedents that would be established by default if nothing is attempted or done. Those precedents will surely serve the crimes of some future despot. That cannot be allowed to happen.
In any regard, you can bet that once the true degree and scope of crimes and atrocities came out, opinions would overwhelming shift in favor of harsh punishments.
I just love that graphic. Kudos to whomever came up with it.
if 30% of Americans think Bush can do no wrong. What matters is the rule of law.
If there is evidence that Bush or his administration committed a crime (and in my opinion as well as many lawyers' opinions, he did) than there should be an investigation. Let's review all the shady and possibly criminal activities that took place: http://tv1.com/playlists/123
If prospective defendants beat the rap using the legal system, then the rule of law has been upheld. If President Bush and his crony's claim executive privilege or national security concerns prevent full disclosure and these claims are accepted by the body that is charged with enforcing the law, then the rule of law has been upheld.
The rule of law is entirely about process, not results.
busch is now whining for the priviledge of trumping the President with his executive priviledge tricks. He needs cover so bad. Now the Pentagon is screening the intel they allow their Commander in Chief access to. HUH? I'm sorry but that is scary and sounds like mutiny. What else are we gonna call it?
Good evening. I was just talking to a friend about this today. It came down to this; In the past, like Nixon, Ford pardoned the asshole and the MSM just kind of went along with it and there was not much negative input unless you looked for it. Even then it was short lived. The same kind of thing happened with Truman. After a period of time there was no more reaction to his incompetence so not he is looked at as if he was not so bad. Now with the internet tubes it is almost impossible to put it in the closet like the Ford pardon was or the Truman incompetence was. My friend and I thought that now with the way the internet drives the story it will not be in any way easy for Obama to just say we should look forward and not backward because there are plenty of (wow, right NOW on Tweety they are talking about just this. That is funny!) people who are very respected who are saying that we should not only look forward but we have to look backward (Jonathon Turley for example). That we need to look backward so that what happenens in the future will not happen again and if it hapopens again the people will have to pay for their criminality.
i would like the detainees to have their say. maybe in a neutral country but i wonder if they're being watched. i've heard many are mentally derranged they couldn't testify. i would like to hear some interviews.
I think the only people who say they are mentally deranged are the people who will be implicated by the "deranged" detainees.
Before they are all dead. Which many are hoping will happen. Even as we write these men are being tortured. Binyam Mohammed is near death. He was one of five detainees who were denied their day in court by Holder.
That wired up statue looks reminiscent of the latter Universal Studio Frankenstein movies, when they could no longer afford Kenneth Strickfaden's larger electrical gizmos.
What exactly does an administration have to do to be charged criminally? How tall does the pile of corpses and lies be?
Values -- Destroyed/Extracted.
Mission -- Accomplished/Underway
I get the feeling the USA economy is now like a giant headless dinosaur, running around like a modern chicken might, flapping dumbly at the air they share with the butcher long enough to become enough of a curiosity to be fed by a man with a giant eye-dropper.
i think it's great that we are discussing something other than the sickening thing that the buSHIT administration just did today.
maybe we should take a look at those impeachment articles that a couple of congressmen had compiled over the long horror-filled buSHIT years
no matter what comes out. We already know what happened.
This will be like the 9/ 11 commission. A total coverup whitewash.
We've done this before. There is nothing new or controversial in it whatsoever. We need only the will to do what is right under the law. We have a process set in place: special prosecutors and grand juries. Let the process work.
It's what the Constitution demands. Investigate, prosecute & imprison the guilty. We do it to bank robbers. Why not war criminals? The Nuremberg Trials were not just about the Nazis. Without their prosecution & execution war crimes would not have been crimes. Enforce the law or there is no law.
It doesn't matter what the public wants. As I understand it, by treaty we are required to investigate and prosecute all war crimes and crimes against humanity. If the government can't summon the courage to do the right thing for the right thing's sake, law law offers them an excuse they can use to do that right thing.
JUSTICE!
Attrocities comitted by Bush, Chenney, Rumfeild and Powell are worst than what Hitler did to European jews. After all, Bush gang killed more than 5000 young American servicemen, disabled 50000+ veterans, and killed more than 1 million Iraqi civilians. All this based on lies by CIA and Bush Chenney gang.
Obviously, there needs to be some type of investigation, followed by criminal prosecution where appropriate. It's what the people want, AND more importantly, the law demands it!! For the life of me I don't understand why Congress, and Dems in particular, feel a need to pussy foot around with this. This isn't ambiguous, either morally or legally. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that the Bush administration committed crimes in our name. Now, do something about it.
When are we going to get to the bottom of what actually happened on 911? Fact is the story we were told just doesn't add up ... I think it all begins there and the entire thing unravels when we understand the truth .... everything that followed ... everything was based on this event ... you have to be willfully blind not to see that something just isn't right concerning that day ... We now know that our government lies to us all the time. How did those planes fly u-turns in the sky for over an hour? How did all the building just fall in their own footprint including building 7 later that day and it had not been hit by anything. And why can't they show us the plane hitting the pentagon? And on and on.... 911 was some kind of inside job or at least facilitated on the inside.
I think a "Truth Commission" is useless. The people in the Bush administration are closed minded enough to think they didn't do anything wrong. Who would they get to testify? Anyone who fessed up to what was going on would be ostracized by his fascist buddies. Useless.
Investigate coldly and rationally. Then follow the facts. How the facts are gathered, as long as they are all gathered, is irrelevant. MZ
The United States needs to sign over jurisdiction to the World Court. After we investigate and determine who committed war crimes, we must allow the World Court to send Interpol to arrest the criminals here in the U.S. and transport them to stand before the World Court to be prosecuted for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
The only way the U.S. can redeem itself is to allow the nations of the world to prosecute and punish U.S. war criminals. This is not something we can sweep under the rug.
You know deals were made before the election of 2008... Bush and Cheney would not have arrogant and confess to their war crimes...
I believe there are democrats that Bush/Cheney had in on his criminal crimes and they are not only protecting Bush, Cheney , Rumsfeld and republicans but themselves..
Was not Dianne Feinstein democrat senator from California on the oversight committee which was informed of Bush's policies and crimes...
Feinstein was a firm supporter of the war in Iraq and funding it. Her Husband was a war contrator which benefited by her actions.
As chairperson and ranking member of the Military Construction Appropriations subcommittee from *****2001 through the end of 2005, **** Feinstein supervised billions of dollars a year for specific military projects.
Two defense contractors her husband in control of , benefited from decisions made by Feinstein as leader of his subcommittee.
http://www.metroactive.com/feinstein/
Why not investigate. If nothing was done illegally, then the truth will set any one in question "free". There should be nothing to hide by being open and revealling. I'd like to know where the 187,000 military rifles went in Afghanistan. Are our military officers (Broken Arrow) selling our weapons to our enemies? No...the truth will set them free. See. I vote for a Truth Commission, for the sake of setting the truth free.
Abe Lincoln
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