US Forces Plan To "Step Aside" From Any Iraqi Civil War
By Steve Hynd Tuesday Oct 28, 2008 6:00pm
And it's 1..2...3..what are we not fighting for?
Via Kevin Drum comes a piece in the NYT looking at the powderkeg of factional tensions in Mosul.
The Shiite-led government of Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki is squeezing out Kurdish units of the Iraqi Army from Mosul, sending the national police and army from Baghdad and trying to forge alliances with Sunni Arab hard-liners in the province, who have deep-seated feuds with the Kurdistan Regional Government led by Massoud Barzani.
....“It’s the perfect storm against the old festering background,” warned Brig. Gen. Raymond A. Thomas III, who oversees Nineveh and Kirkuk Provinces and the Kurdish region. Worry is so high that the American military has already settled on a policy that may set a precedent, as the United States slowly withdraws to allow Iraqis to settle their own problems. If the Kurds and Iraqi government forces fight, the American military will “step aside,” General Thomas said, rather than “have United States servicemen get killed trying to play peacemaker.”
As one of Drum's commenters notes:
As I recall it, the program was: (1) increase troop levels (2) to reduce the violence to make space for (3) political reconciliation that will provide the foundation for (4) a reduction in violence not dependent on American troops (5) that will enable us to gradually withdraw without having to worry about whether Iraq will blow up again.
We never got past step 2. Now the reckoning.
That reckoning will involve violence, in more than one place and between more than just two factions, in the lead up to Iraq's provincial elections. The only real question is: how bad will it get? I totally understand Brig. Gen Thomas' wish not to have his people die policing a civil war six years into the U.S. occupation but doesn't this blow wide open the conservative talking point, so beloved of both Bush and McCain, that US troops have to stay in Iraq to help prevent such violence? Why are we still there?
Of course, if there's no new status of forces deal by January Thomas' plans become moot, since it's likely US forces would be confined to base anyway. In fact, they're using the threat of exactly that to try to strongarm Iraqi into accepting an agreement it isn't happy with. McClatchy reports:
The U.S. military has warned Iraq that it will shut down military operations and other vital services throughout the country on Jan. 1 if the Iraqi government doesn't agree to a new agreement on the status of U.S. forces or a renewed United Nations mandate for the American mission in Iraq.
Many Iraqi politicians view the move as akin to political blackmail, a top Iraqi official told McClatchy Sunday.
In addition to halting all military actions, U.S. forces would cease activities that support Iraq’s economy, educational sector and other areas _ "everything" _ said Tariq al Hashimi, the country’s Sunni Muslim vice president. "I didn’t know the Americans are rendering such wide-scale services."
Hashimi said that Army Gen. Ray Odierno, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq, listed “tens” of areas of potential cutoffs in a three-page letter, and he said the implied threat caught Iraqi leaders by surprise.
But if the US military is planning to stay out of any faction fights anyway, just how much of a threat is that?
Crossposted from Newshoggers
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If this is true, then this new strategy basically means that all soldiers who have perished since "Major combat operations" ended have died for a flawed policy.
That's not news to any of us here, but like Greenspan admitting the Free Market philosophy was a failure, this too will be proof to the warmongers that their ideas have been a disaster. And, once again the people of this nation pay with their lives, the lives of loved ones and our dollars.
THE SURGE (tm) IS WORKING! Obama is an inexperienced, risky, dangerous choice who doesn't know anything about foreign policy and refuses to acknowledge the fact that THE SURGE (tm)IS WORKING!!
I am having a hard time saying that I am proud (or really proud) of my country these days.
4500+ dead Americans. Somewhere between half a million to more than a million dead Iraqis (no reason to count any dead icky brown people, our government doesn't). And for what? PNAC's vision of an American Empire? Oil? Bush's revenge for daddy? All of the above?
So much to be proud of.
We are actually on step number 4 of 5, from the looks of it, Violence has been reduced across the entire country, it used to be much, much worse and we have been reducing troops there, none of this can be denied..
"THE SURGE (tm) IS WORKING! Obama is an inexperienced, risky, dangerous choice who doesn't know anything about foreign policy and refuses to acknowledge the fact that THE SURGE (tm)IS WORKING!!"
I completely agree with you!! Even though I notice the sarcasm, I just chose to ignore it.
Have you forgotten about 9/11 and the thousands of innocent people who died in ONE DAY?
If this war would have been for oil then we would have taken the oil,(which we haven't)4500+ dead Americans, yes I agree very sad, but how many YEARS did it take to get to that? Also, how many more would have been killed with Saddam's ethnic cleansing practices? Did we kill all of the Iraqis? No we did not,some, yes, all, no.
There is a lot to proud of in this country. This is the greatest country on the face of the planet where you can come from nothing to something, as long as you have the determination, desire and the heart to make it.
Ignore what you don't want to understand.
Yeah, I remember 9/11. I also remember that Iraq had NOTHING to do with that. We went to Iraq for WMD. No, we went to Iraq for their freedoms! (Which would be freedom from eating, drinking clean water, electricity, having to work, all them good freedoms.) No, we went to Iraq for regime change.
Spare me your fucking hypocrisy.
And spare me you, John. You're a fucking dishonest idiot, even to yourself.
Bertrand Russell answered best when he said:
"There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a
man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of
comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not real, he becomes furious when they are disputed."
Our own government admitted this occupation was for oil. This was a war of choice. Sadam had nothing to do with 9/11. Even 3rd graders know this stuff now.
1) Oil - major Western oil companies haven't gotten any contracts.
2) Empire - no Status Of Forces Agreement allowing permanent US bases.
3) War Profits - SUCCESS!
Give that man a Kewpie doll!
Or, as Jon Stewart would say...Nailed it!
Another point is this, if we get into the faction fight,one side will say we are supporting the other side. If we get into the faction fight, will people say we shouldn't? If we don't get into the faction fighting will people say we should?
The point is we should not be there. We should never have been there in the first place.
(shaking head)
Dumb and dumber all in one person.
Oh I see, you advocate that everything that has been done there is bad, Since you wish us never being there in the first place, I guess bringing back Saddam from the dead is even better, so he can terrorize his own people, entice ethnic cleansing and rule with an iron fist over his people.
Minorities and women in particular now have more rights in that country than they have ever seen before, how is this a bad thing? People in the streets thank US Soldiers for helping them become liberated and free, these things are bad? Maybe you should go and live in North Korea and see how you like it.
Also stay on point and answer my questions for once,Would you like us to pack up and leave? Oh but wait you just criticized them for not getting involved in a possible faction war... So which is it that will please you and put a smiley face on you?
You won't like either decision and you will complain about it,
Yes, the invasion by the US is the equivalent of the Soviet's invasion of Czechoslovakia and the Nazi's invastion of Poland as two examples. Shall we throw in Vietnam as a chaser?
as most RePugs do. 'IF ones says this this Then It means This' That's not critical thinking. That's just relying on Rote that someone drilled into you.
You are a fucking lunatic!
Women had by far more liberties under Saddam. Now, there are two fighting fractions of Islam where Hussein was secular.
Honestly, you are dumber than a fucking stone.
More women now have turned to prostitution to eat. Their husbands and sons have been killed and they have no way to work.
I am starting to hate you, John. Your ignorance is simply stunning.
No, we cannot leave right now. That would be morally wrong. What we have done all along IS morally wrong. But we have to begin plans to leave.
It is going to suck for the poor people over there for a long time to come...thanks to the United States of America who, under fucking Bush, decided to invade and conquer a country which had nothing to do with 9/11, lied us into going there, continue to fuck up everything we touch, and those people have to pay for Bush's folly.
BTW, asshole, why are you here typing and not in Iraq?
Nope, this is a falsehood, women have more liberties now,
"the Iraqi interim elections law required that all parties who ran in the general elections include women on 25 percent of their candidates list. Once the votes are tallied, this may mean that one quarter of the 275 National Assembly seats will be granted to women. This is good news, especially compared to some of Iraq's neighbors, like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, where women are banned from even voting in elections, let alone participate as candidates." This is better, why won't YOU admit that?
As for Saddam, so your argument is that it was wrong to allow other factions independence and a voice? Here you sit discussing ideas such as freedom, but only when it suits your ideology?
Now answer this one, you say we cannot leave right now, but we have to begin plans to leave, don't you think if we get involved in faction fighting we will be there even longer? I mean really what is your point here? Begin plans to leave, do nothing about the factions, do something about the factions? How about this pretend you are in charge, what would MsJoanne do, please do tell.
BTW, I have done my time for this country, have you? You don't know me so don't assume anything.
John, after reading your comments, all I can say is You are a moron, an idiot,a lunatic,and an imbecile ,and in closing a complete fuck-headed asshole!Good luck ,my friend, cause you're gonna need it!My friend, my friend, my friend!!!!!!!!!!
So much hate, tsk tsk...comments of curse words etc.. show lack of intellect my friend :) try being civil next time,
you remember Pelosi right? Civility and Integrity.. lol that turned out to be a joke
BTW, your anger shows that I hit a nerve, looks like the truth scares you. You, my friend do not know me, I have served this country to allow people like yourself to curse me and insult me, yea that's the patriotism I love seeing. Move to China if you don't love you country, Love it or leave it.
Actually, the US owes Iraq 'War Reparations' which will be decided by the ICC or the UN after the war is over.
You will still end up paying more than the Germans did to France, Poland and all the other countries they bombed.
The US launched a war of Aggression. Don't think we don't remember Nuremberg. We hung the Nazis for "The supreme International War crime of Armed Aggression"
It doesn't matter your intentions. I'm not judging your country on it's intentions. I am judging it for what it DID.
I fail to see your 'logic'. If there is any.
the boy. he knows not what he speaks.
But it is one thing to be stupid...it is another to spew stupidity.
Don't you think?
How's my favorite Uncle tonight?
i'm in a kick ass mood-But I gotta be vewy very caaful. The sites are watching.
this guy is getting to me like Dennis used to. I hate lying sacks of shit. They get under my skin in a big way.
I am a person who never lies. I always try for tact when I have to answer in a way that is not expected, but I will not lie. Period. Ever.
That's one of the main reasons I hate Bush (43) as much as I do. I caught him in a lie during the 2000 primary season and have hated him ever since.
Liars suck. They are a waste of oxygen.
cool down.get ready for the hard work ahead. A new day is dawning.
probably here under a new name. He'll be weeded out,soon enough.
Dennis was converted. He admitted to voting for Obama and then disappeared. I don't recall what made that happen, what the driver was, but that one post of his was one of his last. He begrudgingly said that he HAD to vote for Obama.
Damn, I wish I could remember why.
I didn't care. One more vote for That One.
MsJoanne,
If you actually think Obama has not lied to you through this whole entire running...then you are indeed,
(as you so eloquently put it)
"dumber than a fucking stone."
"Have you forgotten about 9/11 and the thousands of innocent people who died in ONE DAY?"
Holy shit!!! I didnt think there was anyone left in the USA who thinks that Iraq and Saddam had something/anything to do w/ 9/11. ...fuckin' amazing!
here ya go John watch Bush admit Saddam had nothing to do w/ 9/11
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3118262.stm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_A77N5WKWM&fe...
John has his fingers in his ears, eyes tightly shut, screaming LA LA LA LA LA.
You do know that all the evidence Bush supplied was bogus,Right?
And you mentioned Sept 11th. Again, Bush failing to heed the warnings he was given in the PDB dated Aug 6th 2001.
Next?
I'm from Canada, the second greatest country on earth and yours isn't the first.
intitled to your opinion,of course. I for one don't rate one country over another. that's jingoism for the uneducated.
My comment was a bit "tongue in cheek".
next time someone says 'fuck you' I'll try and remember it's all toungue in cheek.
Actually, look it up. There are thousands and thousands of country rankings. Longevity, Standard of Living, Freedom to Vote, Political Parties, Tax Rates etc...
Rating countries is kinda silly.
But saying "We're number one we're number one' when you are clearly not is hubris and idiocy combined.
Lets agree to disagree, but cussing at each other acheives nothing
It makes me feel good sometimes.
(hanging head)
I am a bad, bad girl.
"Lets agree to disagree, but cussing at each other acheives nothing"
I before E except after C.
It achieves something, sometimes, for some people, maybe, so don't be a scold, Tom Servo.
Carly
Soldier's mom
QUOTE "Also, how many more would have been killed with Saddam's ethnic cleansing practices?"
The US backed and *armed* Saddam for years, and turned a blind eye when he butchered his own people. Saddam was America's stooge, a puppet. Only when he refused to have his strings pulled anymore did America decide he was a bad guy....
As far as I'm concermed, the US is complicit in Saddam's crimes.
So you think the US is complicit on Saddam's crimes eh?
and we have backed and armed him for many years eh? So, how far back shall we go? to the 70's, 60's, or do you think every President currently living should be in court and sentenced along with congress and past congressmen who have since left office?
How far back do You go? Many of US here lived through all of those mentioned. Did You? or was it told to You by someone else? Those of US who lived through that History know what went on.
Well, the U.S. government, on the orders of people like George HW Bush, supplied Saddam with the poison gas to kill hundreds of thousands of Kurds -- and there's no statute of limitations on war crimes. I vote we start with Kissinger for old times' sake, then toss all of Bushco into Gitmo for the rest of their murdering lives.
mob rule never worked(true democracy),so that ain't gonna happen.It's time for work. Hard work to heal this place. And it starts soon.
Yes, if the US gave him the weapons they are complicit.
And yes every president since Ike should be brought up on Warcrime trials. But thats Noam Chomsky's opinion.
"...greatest country on the face of the planet where you can come from nothing to something, as long as you have the determination, desire and the heart to make it."
Easy to say when you're not dead. Hard to say the same from a grave. Lucky you, living it up in America, comfortable...and pretending your cushy comfort is actually "pride."
You are posting from the war zone, right? I doubt you would be speaking this way without having done YOUR part first. Come home safe, John! Thank you for your service. I know you would gladly take the place of any of our 4,000+ war dead, our thousands and thousands of wounded and maimed, not that they count for much, since it took SO LONG for that many to die, that many American families to be forever shattered. 4,000+ lives in five years is LESS than 3,000 in one day?
Weird math. You are a God damned monster.
"We are actually on step number 4 of 5, from the looks of it, Violence has been reduced across the entire country, it used to be much, much worse and we have been reducing troops there, none of this can be denied.."
(3) achieve political reconciliations... Name one political reconciliation that has been achieved. We ARE NOT PAST STEP 3.
"Have you forgotten about 9/11 and the thousands of innocent people who died in ONE DAY? "
9/11 was a tragic day that should not be forgotten. That being said, Iraq had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11 (your precious Bush government has even admitted as much) and despite the terrible tradegy of 9/11, it did not give our country the right to run roughshod over any country we see fit...
"If this war would have been for oil then we would have taken the oil,(which we haven't)4500+ dead Americans, yes I agree very sad, but how many YEARS did it take to get to that? "
Durr... just because we have their Oil doesn't mean Exxon is going to sell it to you at the price of YOUR asking. You'll buy gas at $3.50 a gallon and like it just like a good little American.
"Also, how many more would have been killed with Saddam's ethnic cleansing practices? Did we kill all of the Iraqis? No we did not,some, yes, all, no."
Iraqi's are dying at a much higher rate since our occupation started than they were near the end of Saddam's regime. Also, he may have killed more of his own people, but to use your own terminology "but how may YEARS did it take." Besides, do you really think it's in our countries interest to be comparing body counts with the likes of Saddam? To even have such a discussion begs the question of where the hell has our country gone?!?
"There is a lot to proud of in this country. This is the greatest country on the face of the planet where you can come from nothing to something, as long as you have the determination, desire and the heart to make it."
The bolded part I agree with, however there is ALSO a lot to be ashamed of in this country. No true patriotic citizen would be willing to overlook the use of torture as an interrogation technique, or allow the Patriot law to be drafted. No true patriot would be willing to state so boldly that there is no ill in his/her country because a true patriot knows the truth. Our country has done much good, and much harm to many people/nations since it inception, and to stick your head in the sand and blindly scream "we're #1" without realizing the very generous, and very brutal history of our nation is hardly patriotic. Newsflash, all nations think "we're #1," are they all correct?
Finally, regarding your statement "this is the greatest country on the face of the planet where you can... blah blah blah" that statement is patently false. SOME people can come from nothing and make it. The vast majority fail despite hard work and best intentions. This is especially true if you happen to not be white.
If I may be so bold I would suggest that you turn off Rush Limbaugh, mute fox news, and pick up a book. Anyone really, you can't go wrong, but steer clear of ones with pictures...
Don't even think about bringing up 9/11 with me! I live in NYC and watched the towers fall right in front of me. I have not forgotten that day and in fact, I think about it every time I walk out the door and look down 6th Avenue at the empty space that used to be the towers in the distance.
I also lived through the following days of evacuations in my neighborhood due to threat alerts at the Empire State Building and scares in the subways. The amped up military force patrolling almost the entire island.
I live in a target of terrorism and that is why I don't delude myself in thinking the war in Iraq has made us any safer.
People like you who accuse me of "forgetting about 9/11" are f*cking @ssholes and need to shut up about it. You don't know what you're talking about!
Is anybody in there?
In the semblance of a person called John that is!
Post the Vacant sign. It's completely cleaned out...much like that colon cleanse stuff...he must have snorted it intead.
Nothing is proof to a true believer. They'll simply block out the horrible facts until it's safe to try the usual "stab-in-the-back" excuse for their debacle. "The plan wasn't the problem," they'll say; "it was that the (press, Pentagon, Dems, Jews, certain scapegoat Repugs, Jane Fonda, etc.) wouldn't let us win! We were betrayed!" And then they'll find some other small country to work out their emotional disfunction on. These people, and they make up an aberrantly large percentage of our ruling class, will burn down the whole world to prove they're right (or manly, heterosexual, tough, brave -- pick your issue).
Meanwhile, the problem with our little invasion is the problem that's been there all along: the Iraqis. Somehow Bushco and friends thought they'd turn into Americans as soon as we showed up, but no, they stubbornly insist on being Iraqis. I mean, Bushco didn't think they could kill or exile all of them, did they?
Like Syria or Pakistan perhaps?
They never learn. And they obviously have no concern for the 4 million Iraqi refugees who have no social services to help them from the U.S. and are turning to the Mahdi Army's out reaches in Syria and Jordan to help them survive. "Winning hearts and minds" is just empty rhetoric to the warmongers.
PBS: Wide Angle - "Iraqi Exodus"
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/episodes/ir...
Refugee International
http://www.refugeesinternational.org/content/...
It says more than that. It says "Malaki is not doing what he is told, he is going rogue. Create a coup to overthrow and murder him and give him no protection from the US."
They are planning on another 'regiem change' to get a yes man in power to prevent them from being forced to leave when Malaki does not sign the extension of US military help. Its coming due in a few months.
If they're staying out of faction fights then why are they there?
100% agreement here
Regards, C
so we don't have to not fight them over here...
Duh, i thought that was obvious :D
That was one of the 14 points I mentioned earlier.
Thanks for the refresh.
Nobody talks about Iraq anymore. Is it because MSM thinks it's a downer? If McCain wins, we will be there indefinitely. Damn! McCain and Lieberman want to strike Iran! I pray Obama wins, if not, we are totally screwed.
This has been an occupation since 'Mission Accomplished' in 2003.
It is still a racket, a huge one.
From what I understand it's a foregone conclusion that the Iraqis aren't going to approve a Status Of Forces Agreement (SOFA .. lol!) before Dec. 31, but instead request the UN extend the current mandate for 6 months or a year.
This will be a far better arrangement, as it would not tie President Obama and the Democratic Congress to a previous agreement.
I agree that an extension of the UN mandate would probably be the best alternative right now. My fear is that the game of chicken continues until there are no good options. No SOFA, no UN mandate, no nothing. Isn't that risking putting us in the worst possible position of having to withdraw immediately, without logistics planning? There must be more going on in the backround to prevent the worst case scenario. Right?
I'm pretty certain the Iraqis are going to request the UN Mandate be extended.
Maliki agreed to a revised SOFA just recently, and the US said that's the final last offer. Then every faction in the Iraqi parliament found something each didn't like and demanded it be amended - which the US refuses to consider. Now Maliki refuses to sign it because it is universally rejected by the parliament and the people.
Then it was feared the Russians might veto an extension of the UN mandate, because of the rift of Georgia. But recently they said the would approve, giving the Iraqis a way out.
All the Iraqis need do now is ask for a 6 month extension, and the whole mess gets dumped into Obama's lap.
Good luck!
This is the second time we did this to the Kurds. We said we would stand behind them in the last gulf war (the first time we accomplished the mission).
You can guess how that one ended. Saddam got to do with them what he pleased, so long as he didn't use any planes.
Third time. Poppy Bush, when he was head of the CIA, screwed the Kurds but good back in the mid-70s. Encouraged them to fight, then abandoned them to Saddam when they became inconvenient. I don't know why the Kurds even look at us. But, a whole lot of heroin gets smuggled through Kurdistan and Turkey, and that's how the Kurds finance their nationlist movement/mafia. But they need partners, because you have to get the heroin to the addicts in the U.S., right? That's why they still work with the U.S. government. http://www.serendipity.li/cia/bush-cheney-dru...
I'm convinced there is a great deal we can do for the Kurds, for 20 years if need be, without occupying Iraq at all.
Seen documentary "No End in Sight," by the way? Must see. Blood-boiler.
Please don't trust anything our country says.
PS, watch out for the Turks!
"Please don't trust anything our country says"...........a VERY interesting story is on the front page of BBC NEWS website, saying how the BBC has gained evidence, that Georgia may have committed war crimes in its attack on its breakaway region of South Ossetia in August.
There were 3 countries who supported Russia and a kzillion people from S. Ossetia who wrote stories on various blogs, telling the Western world what was really happening.
But here in the USA, we've ben brainwashed by the same propoganda techniques we're told not to believe in.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7692751.stm
'brainwashed'. the agression by Georgia was planned to be at the same time as the Olympics. Top USA 'officials'were there prior to the 'invasion'. You use 'we' loosly'. I saw through it. Anyone with a brain saw through it.
..oh really? Well other than you, I guess all American media, Bush, Rove, McCain, The Diva, Obama, Biden, Lieberman failed to and when it comes to convincing people of the direction they should go, I think they'll win over you.
But that's the American way. Yes, there are some more intelligent Yanks who know better than believe all they are told but guess what? Power is everything my friend.
Your loving Canadian Friend.
Stand back and let them kill each other? Yes, so much more noble and humane than letting a dictator like Saddam keep the peace.
right wing idea that if troops pulled out, the Democrats would be responsible for any resulting bloodshed? We might as well withdraw in this case.
But when the phantom WMD never surfaced, Bush fabricated new reasons for being in Iraq- and the reasons keep changing-
Ousting Saddam was laughable given that he hyad been a US puppet since the 1960s, and the US had provided him with the weapons he used on his own people....
For the US to claim to be heroic because we saved Iraq from Saddam is like the pyromaniac fireman who claims to be a hero for trying to put out the fire he started.
The war can never be won, because what is there to win- when there is no set objective???
WHY isn't the 'mainstream media' demanding to know why we are still in Iraq when the reason to go- the claim iraq had WMD -has been discredited???!!!
What are people dying for at this point?
DKos had an entry a while back with 14 different reasons that the administration gave for going into Iraq.
FOURTEEN!!
Man, I wish I could find that entry. If anyone knows how to do a good search at DK, please find this for me.
Bush announced "Saving the Iraqis from Saddam" as a reason after the UN refused to approve the Invasion and just before Bush decided to invade anyway.
It was "cover your ass" for when the WMD claim proved bogus - as Bush knew it would before they went in. So he needed a backup reason.
I concur with Tom Servo, the noted film critic: Saddam was made by the U.S. A quick read on our illustrious history with Saddam: http://representativepress.blogspot.com/2004/...
I’m no military genius but this crap is really freaking me out. We can’t set a timetable for withdrawal because, shhh, we don’t want the enemy to know, but, we can confine our troops to their known bases all gift wrapped with a pretty bow on top with a big flashing neon sign, including a big red arrow, that reads “BOMB HERE”. It’s going to be another frigging cluster fu(k just like the Viet Nam fiasco.
at any event bushes mission was accomplished , while the war went on iraqs oil was taken off the world markets and who reaped the profits? the bush friends the saudies and the bush cronies who bought the saudie oil and screwed us with outrages prices for a barrel of oil, now they are fighting over the iraqy oil as it comes back on line, the united states has no intention of withdrawing its troops from iraq, even under obama,
In the beginning I thought the rationale for invading Iraq was to get their oil (and the Euro trading thing Sadaam was about the implement). One thing bothered me though. After the invasion there were reports going around that the oil rigs were being sabotaged by removing the gauges. These gauges had no exceptional value; they only counted how much oil was being pumped. Why were they being removed?
Then it occurred to me, and this is why I think you are right. The purpose wasn’t to get the oil; it was to eliminate it from the market. Since our invasion the price of crude has gone from $20 per barrel to $150 per barrel - in 7 years. Who reaps those benefits? OPEC and the oil companies do.
Talk about mission accomplished!
And I always wonder how much of this goes back to Cheney's super top secret energy meetings with the Ken Lay's of the world. Those meetings we had no right to know anything about, including who was there and what was discussed.
Exactly. It wasn't about getting the oil, it was about controlling the oil.
the most likely reason for thoes gauges being removed from the iraq oil wells that were operating was that they were being tapped by our government shipped out to the world markets as opec oil and most likely the saudies hid that fact and werent produceing as much oil as they reported , in other words we stoled it but made it appear as if thier was a shortage!
Makes sense - I wouldn't doubt that for a minute.
As I said, if the goal was to get their oil, they would not have removed the gauges. It was a red flag for me.
What McCain fails to mention when he insists the surge is working is that of course the surge is working. If you put enough American soldiers on the ground such that they can point a rifle at every house, viola, the violence stops.
Note, that the instant you withdraw the troops, the civil war will start again. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE HERE, and anyone with half a brain knows this and can see this coming. It's a shame few of our leaders have half a brain...
we are imperialists
even the liberals are imperialists
we support a mega military and have bases around the world
few americans will understand my words
we have been conditioned to believe we are about defense
reality is we are about offense (imperialism)
the end is near
total economic decline due to mega military and privitized medical care.
wait and see
Geezus, when will these people begin to be human? The only thing worse than being anti-semitic is wrongfully accusing someone of being A-S. But hey. "The Diva/Reformer/hockey mom/maverick/feminist doesn't put labels on anyone.
How in God's name can 45% of the populaton follow someone so blatantly deceitful?
they are angry, bitter, and afraid. If people with good jobs and fine educations are frightened about where the country is right now, imagine what people who are barely getting by are feeling. And they are looking for someone to blame. This nasty lady and the GOP have that all figured out and they are telling them the black guy is totally blameworthy.
If there is a God out there watching this, and if he still cares, I hope he's keepig track of Sarah. If so, she's in a world of trouble.
should have told everyone all they needed to know about McCain. That he could have walked through the marketplace in Iraq with a huge security guard, a flak jacket, and helicopters whirling overhead, then come back and tell the American people how safe the city was shows that he can't tell the truth.
Once you accept the fact that Gates doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground it all makes a bit more sense.
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