The Big Dog talks to Netroots Nation about how to keep the progressive momentum
It made for a pretty long video -- even edited down -- but Bill Clinton's speech last night was not only pretty long but very compelling. His subject was the progressive movement and how it is moving forward with real momentum now -- something, he explained, that really is a product of the reality that America is changing dramatically.
As we become more and more multicultural, he observed, the nation naturally will become more communitarian in how it approaches problems and will increasingly as a result adopt real progressive solutions, while discarding the old fake divisions -- particularly the racial ones -- that have plagued us since our beginnnings. And he offered some thoughts on not only the necessity of keeping that momentum but how we do it.
At one point he was challenged by an audience member who shouted out in protest about Clinton's adoption of the "don't ask don't tell" policy for the military, and Clinton answered sharply and compellingly. It was a reminder of just how strong Clinton can be when dealing with critics.
I'd hoped edit it down to a normal-length video but just couldn't. But the message is well worth the length.
Nothing like advice on how to be progressive from a centrist DLC corporate tool.
When big dog barks, the bitches run and hide!
ARF!
He has real political clout and is more likely to create the kind of change you want than many other politicians out there.
But by all means, just repeat what the Freepers say about him. That will help your agenda.
Something most progressives desperately need.
You should be kissing the asses of "centrist DLC corporate tools" since that's the only way any progressive change is going to be made.
NAFTA
Don't ask don't tell
Iraq embargo
Signed off on Galss Stengal repeal
Took 2 years to intervene in Bosnian genocide
F**cked his intern
As far as his much vaunted political skills:
* Won his first national election with less than 50% in a 3 way race
* Didn't get ANY of the traditional Democratic agenda thru congress
Lost the House majority in his first term
If progressives want to learn political technique I suggest they learn from the Republicans, who consistently win even though a minority agree with their positions. Democrats have a hard time winning even when the majority agrees with their positions.
For crying out loud, the Dems can't even hold their party together in the legislature enough to pass reforms that 70 plus percent of the country agrees with.
No, the Big Dog can kiss MY ass.
He doesn't need you for anything.
You, on the other hand, need him and other's like him if you ever want to see progressive change in US laws etc.
Bill Clinton didn't do anything great for either the democrats or the progressivesx.
And so can Hillary, another war-enabling dumbass Democrat. I'm with you on this, sambolini!
Haw haw, good one. Had me going there for a minute, should use a /snark tag next time though.
Ill pass on anything the "centrist" DLC has to offer (**cough**NAFTA**cough**).
Exactly!
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
How's NAFTA there Clenis?
protectionism.
to all of my union brothers and sisters who lost their jobs to Wal Mart and China
remember to mention that job losses to Wal Mart and China are not caused by NAFTA.
any FTA causes job loss, and here we are where cheap labor trade agreements rule the marketplace and screwed the middle class.
We can tell the DLC tools from the progressives...is that you Rahm?
it's really not. And where do you think we got all the illegals from? Countries that have had their economies driven down the toilet by NAFTA. We could have done one hell of a lot better than this. But slick Willy rubber stamped it.
Where are the rest of the democratic party leaders?
Jimmy Carter?
Al Gore?
Where are the religious leaders?
Matthew 25:45Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’
(I think the religious RW is killing baby Jesus)
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
I betcha baby jesus is at Netroots Nation right now. Probably just hanging back and silently cheering them along.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Bill Clinton, a Progressive?
Bwahahahaha Hahahahahahahaha Hahahahahahahaha Hahahahahahaha(gasp)
Bill's gladly palling around with GHWB, and his rich, powerful pals, trying not to look so pleased with himself...
Ending "welfare as we know it," NAFTA, the Communications Act revision of '96, the repeal of Glass-Steagal, the boycott of Iraq that killed half-a-million Iraqi kids (to the loathesome toad Mad Albright's apparent glee)...
Yeah, he's a "progressive," you betcha
Absolutely spot-on, Woody!
William Jefferson Clinton is not a progressive. He did not run as a progressive -- he ran as a DINO Republican-Lite. With the exception of his abysmally run campaign for Health Care Reform, all of his major policies were decidedly NOT progressive.
He properly belongs in the same DINO pigeon-hole as Rahm Emannual and Barack Hussein Obama, as Neo-Liberals. Progressive? NOT SO MUCH!
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
are behing the anti-net neutrality campaign, especially Paul Begala.
I'm not trying to be snide or anything but what is progressive about Bill? I honestly can't think of anything but maybe my memory is running on low batteries today.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
You've been swapping them again with your female entertainment system?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Shame on you, Mr. Ysbaddaden. I have no female entertainment system that runs on batteries.
I just heard that Joe the Plumber has signed up to enter the Funniest Comedian in DC contest. No, I'm not kidding. Huckabee won the title last year. Of course I don't know how Joe could be considered a DC person.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Could I beat em?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
With a warm squash.
Let's see how far to the right they go before they fall off of the edge of this flat world.
... trying to ride the whole healthcare reform thing back into the limelight.
It's all pure politics we're dealing with here and Bill Clinton knows it.
At our meeting this week with Rep. John Olver here in Western Massachusetts, he let us know that when H.R. 676 is debated and voted on in September that there MIGHT be 180 voting "yes". Obviously that's not enough to pass H.R. 676..."Medicare for All".
The Progressive Caucus in the House has said that any legislation without a "robust public option" will NOT get there votes. It sounds like they are willing to stand on principle and end up with a defeat for Obama rather than vote "yes" for a watered down bill that may only include "Co-ops" or any other major victories for big private health insurance/big pharma.
Rep. Olver told us that if the Democratically controlled House and Senate do not agree on health care reform legislation as echoed in Bill Clinton's speech, and Obama fails, that the Democrats will lose badly next November to the Republicans, especially in the House.
If Obama DOES manage to get a bill passed with a "robust public option" then Rep. Olver said, as Clinton did as well, that within a year the public will begin to see (in time for mid-term elections) that Obama and the Democratic majorities in the House and Senate did something BENEFICIAL FOR ALL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. Obviously it wouldn't be "Single-Payer", but "something" is better than "nothing", right?
And the result will then be a Democratic sweep in both houses of Congress with the potential for ADDED SEATS FOR DEMOCRATS next fall.
In 1992 I busted my butt to defeat Bill Clinton. First I worked in Jerry Brown's campaign. Then he dropped out and I worked for Tom Harkin. By the time the election rolled around I had a Bill Clinton pin on.
Same thing last November. Nader/Obama? Pragmatism pointed me to Obama plus the abject FEAR I had of Sarah Palin becoming POTUS was the real clincher.
When I drink the Koolaid I admit it.
I'm a strong proponent of H.R. 676. But as Rep. Olver told our solemn group of doctors and nurses, "Ain't gonna happen."
I'm not any happier with Obama right now than anyone else here, especially in regards to the yet to be resolved issue of torture.
But the thought of a total failure on Health Care Reform this fall coupled with the resultant election of scores of Republicans in Nov. 2010, thereby hobbling Obama for the rest of his term, is too disgusting to contemplate.
And there's my political pragmatism speech for the day.
Please tell me if I'm wrong. Thank you.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
but I read over on wiki his wife is going sour in the lobby, and to please his constituency he goes for food for fuel...other than that he has always had a good heart.
The problem with taking a "defeatist" attitude is that by not pushing a particular option, even knowing that as it stands it won't pass, it takes that option "off the table," so there's no further discussion of it and we drop down to the lower level option. We've seen it in the healthcare debate as single payer devolved to "public option," which devolved into co-opts[sic], which will devolve into Jah knows what.
Any negotiator knows that you have to hold an "extreme" position to get close to what you want. Starting from a weenie postition gets you a weenier result.
If Obama were badgering Congreff for single payer we might get a robust public option. By limiting ourseleves to a public option we're going to get co-opts.
If Obama would have shown the leadership, advocacy and willingness to strongarm in the finest traditions of LBJ, it would be a done deal. He's not doing it, because he doesn't want it, pure and simple. His allegiances lie elsewhere.
highlights the 'inexperience' problem.
LBJ "owned" the Senate, serving 30 years before being named to the Kennedy ticket. He knew EVERYTHING about EVERYBODY, which gave him GINOURMOUS leverage.
Obama was a rookie, without power, influence, or the knowledge of the bodies in the closets, or the ability to use them...
Expanding Medicare for ALL, along with serious modification of the RethugliKKKlan Medicare Part D will hold heath care costs down. The savings,, along with rolling in the VA medical system, would go a long way toward paying for the expanded program. Additional funding could easily be found in the DoD / M.I.C. black hole to cover the rest.
The problem is that Obama is not looking out for the best "outcome" for the American people -- he is looking out for Big Pharma, and for the Heath Care Insurance Industry -- The financial and medical "health" of the American People, NOT SO MUCH.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
can't progressive Dems realize this? Because they love the trough of corporate $$$.
I get frustrated by "progressives" who attack or dismiss Democratic politicians who can get improvements made. I know that its fashionable for a lot of "progressives" to dump on the Democratic party and its leaders. However, incremental liberal change is the only way last changes can be made.
I am convinced that the failure of the healh care reform attempt during President Clinton's first two years led directly to the election of Republican majorities. The GOP strategy is the same now as it was then: block reform in any way possible. Fearmongering, manufactured outrages and "scandals", disruption, mendacity.... Once "Obamacare" is defeated, enough of the public gets dissatisfied with the incumbent administration that the GOP get back in.
Let's see how the "progressives" do then.
it won't be because of progressive "bad faith."
Though the kool-aid quaffers will certainly proclaim it to be so.
Thou 'mongst 'em?
there will be a number of reasons. Nothing that complex is monocausal. I think "progressive" attacks on the current administration would be a contributing factor to the failure.
It doesn't really matter what the ideological basis for the attack is ... an attack is an attack.
So just go along with this watered down crap, right, Bob, no matter what the consequences. Stupid (i mean no personal attack, just the general thinking this way)
Change does not happen incrementally.
Ending slavery
Women's sufferage
Social Security
Medicare
All were implemented each in their entirety. Over strenuous often violent objections of those opposed.
Setting up Co-ops or a public option that will not work or take out the 40 percent overhead in the system from the HealthCos and Pharma will only sour most voters on change and we'll be in the wilderness at least another 15 years.
The only changes that don't are revolutionary changes (in one or another sense) and we remember those changes because of how unusual they are.
Those who want revolutionary change are frustrated by incremental change. However, since revolutionary change is very damned rare, I'd prefer to work for incremental change.
but the Democratic leadership doesn't see it that way.
They COULD go for the incremental changes ithat a majority agree with one at a time.
For ex ban recission as a seperate bill.
For ex ban pre-existing condition exclusions as a seperate bill.
The could but they don't. Instead they roll it all up in a thousand page bill, full of ambiguities, that will get watred down to the point of worthlessness before it passes.
n/t
As long as REAL progressives keep drinking that Kool Aid, all we'll have is corporate bought Congress and Presidents, like we do now. THAT's a reality check, my pragmatic comrade.
Before Obama we didn't have anything even close to a progressive since Jimmy Carter. Damn the rethugs that bad mouth Carter, the only living president I respect besides Obama.
Is it the 21st century yet?
What's he done worthy of your respect?
Get elected?
He 'won' against the most cynically rigged GOP 'ticket' in history, the composition of which alone ought to tell you the whole thing was thrown by the Pukes, who wanted no fuukin part of the Bushevik 'legacy,' and punted it to the Dims, who gladly rolled over and took it in the ass...
How do I know the Pukes threw it? They didn't even TRY to steal it...
He's far from perfect, as are all presidents. He's hated by Faux news that means a lot, he brought back stem cell research, he's done a handful of other things that make the liberal in me happy. He's gone further on health care than anyone I can remember, that means a lot if he can get it done. Time will tell.
Is it the 21st century yet?
Have you ever looked at the polling data?
We came very, very close to a McCain/Palin victory. A few months before the election, the race was neck and neck again (after a period of time in which Predient Obama had pulled ahead).
The whole "palling around with terrorists" meme was actually working. Had Wall Street not stumbled when it did, we'd have President McCain and you'd be writing comments that you WISHED Obama had won.
46% of the electorate chose the senescent, geriatric, corrupt lying fuckwit, and his 'running-mate,' the LEAST well-qualified candidate EVER to seek national office (including Quayle), rather than vote for the "Black" guy.
And the consequences--should the congressional races have turned out similarly--would likely have been indistinguishable, since Souter wouldn't have stepped down...And Sotomayor? She could have been confirmed under ANY of the last four regimes...
You really think nothing would be different if McCain/Palin had won? Do you think Sotomayor would even have been nominated? Do you think we would be keeping with a timetable to close Guantanamo or to reduce troop levels in Iraq? Do you really think there would be ANY effort at health care reform?
Sotomayor - Still a 5-4 conservative majority
Gitmo - Still open. Rendition still happening.
Iraq - Still there. Just pulled back to bases.
Corporate profits - still intact.
Unemployment - still rising (despite the data)
Jobs - Never coming back.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
n/t
Expanded SCHIP eligibility.
Created foreclosure prevention fund.
De-escalating Iraq occupation and moving forward with reasonable withdrawal timeline.
Passed stimulus bill which provides, among other things, extended unemployment benefits, money for alternative energy research, rebuilding/repairing US infrastructure, fiscal relief to prevent state cuts in education budgets, series of progressive tax changes, etc.
Moving forward with health care changes despite hysterical, ignorant, violent, eliminationist actions and well financed propaganda.
Shall I continue?
administration looks much more like a 3rd GW Bush administration.
A McCain/Palin administration would look much more like a 2nd Cheney administration.
I voted for the lesser of 2 evils, a Neo-Liberal Democrat.
I would never characterize Obama as a Progressive. Not. Even. Close.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
were as far apart as the elections of 2004, 2006, AND 2008. Exit polls demonstrated a much larger (>12%) difference between the Voting Booth and the Exit Polls. The pre-election public polls were largely conducted by elements of the MSM -- do you really trust them to be accurate?
Exit Polls are relied upon in democracies all across the globe to predict Voting Booth tallies -- they have been proven to be accurate to within 1%. In the USA, OTOH, Exit Polls have been labeled as quite inaccurate by the MSM, who represents which segment of America? The Corporate interests.
What makes you think that the 46% of the electorate figure that you quote was not also influenced by the Diebold / electronic voting machine Factor? Isn't this what KKKarl Rove was counting on when he stated that the RethugliKKKlan Party would stay in power here for the next 100 years?
The vast and powerful RethugliKKKlan Party that our lilly-livered Democratic Congress-critters are so willing to yield Majority Power to may well represent a much smaller portion of the American constituency than they appear to.
Conversely, the liberal progressive constituency may be far larger than otherwise appears to be the case. We are just highly disorganized. We need John Dean back as Chairman of the Democratic Party.
... Just saying ...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
marginalized, then the corporatist news media and the adjusted exit polls after the fact make it look like there's a horse race where there is none.
Just think of computerized tallying where the registered non voter can be voted electronically, then you'll get the idea
anyone notice he's a little Forrest Gumpy?
"That's all I have to say about that"
"I want to say something about that"
Or is that a Suthun thang?
The bypass machine causes cognitive problems that never repair.
:(
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
So besides freezing my Phrenic nerve, I have to worry about pumphead now.
Your phrenic nerve is gone. But the cognitive changes usually clear in 6 months to a year. We all get older ya know.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
learn to breathe thru my ass then.
G.H.W. Bush = Reagan's 3rd term
Bill Clinton = Reagan's 4th and 5th terms
G.W. Bush = Reagan's 6th and 7th terms
That's what it has taken to undo FDR's accomplishments.
Just wait until the Roberts court starts erasing the legacy of the Warren court.
Ultimately, Bill Clinton cares only about himself. The single most selfish, narcissistic, Machiavellian figure I can think of on earth, is Bill Clinton.
Bill Clinton is a joke. Just like this article.
Obama=GWB's 3rd and 4th term.
Cite any sources for that vitriol? Or did you just buy GOP talking points about President Clinton wholesale?
Better hope you're wrong. If "progressive" ideas are ever going to get traction, it will be because centrist poliiticans used their influence to support them.
Then they will never get traction.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
but not a progressive.
He signed off on Phil Gramm's dangerous deregulation.
And, as noted by others, NAFTA.
There are very few progressives in DC.
Clearly true.
How many progressives are there in the US in general. (No sarcasm intended. I'd really like to know. My impression is that "progressives" are a real minority, completely outnumbered by the fundamentalist, arch-conservative, far right).
Glen Beck was for Healthcare Reform before he was against it.
This should amuse you
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/14/76662...
That piece was funny as hell when Jon did it last night on the Daily Show.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
What the heck makes Bill Clinton any kind of information source about progressive goals? Mr. Deregulation is unlikely to have any good advice about "progressive momentum".
The ten percent at each end of the spectrum are the core "base" that does the heavy lifting to get their candidates elected. The Republicans cater to their base but the Democrats do not. This will be coming back to bit them more and more each cycle. Obama will not have GWB to run against in 2012, only his corporate sellout record.
And allow me to say again that neither party wan't to accomplish any of the important planks in their platforms. The Republican leadership does not want to pass amendments or laws banning abortion or gay marriage and the Democratic leadership does not want to have universal healthcare. Otherwise what would they run on?
No, the two parties are locked at the hip. They need each other much more than they need their "bases."
THE SAME PARTY!
That is the "Party of Property."
Their putative differences (the "wedge" issues) only serve to camouflage their essential, fundamental similarities...
But I know that I will not convince you otherwise.
However, if you are correct, then your ideas are irrelevant. No one with any power will ever speak for you. None of the legal, social, educational, financial changes you want will ever happen. You are completely marginalized and entirely irrelevant.
Alternatively, you could decide that one of the two parties has a platform that is closer to what you want and then act to try to move that party's priorities slowly closer to your own.
n/t
Actually as to your second point, that is just what most progressives are doing.
The wide awake ones admit what Woody does. But push the Dems just the same.
desperate to be thought 'relevant,"
Clinton, an A-List (mebbe even an A+)
personalitycelebrity, salves their egos, makes 'em feel like they're 'in the loop...Delusional, much?
I knew he was a moderate, but I still voted for him. So I'm not shocked at all...when he started naming cabinet members...it wasn't suprising (passing over Dean...was the first clue)...
There are very few progressives in DC...
Right now, only Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold, Barbara Boxer, Ted Kennedy, & Al Franken are the only Senators I consider worth anything...
The corporatist Dems are going to blow healthcare reform & the climate bill... The propensity for self-destruction in the Democratic party is insane & amazing at the same time....truly bewildering...
Corporatocracy...Idiocracy...same thing
Like Rachel Maddow, every day now...it seems we all need some talking down (from the ledge) But the inexcusable BS from the Dems is putting us right back up there...every other day...
I'll never forgive Clinton for pushing the FTAs, the Telecom Act, and allowing Phil Gramm to suck the life out of this country...he's no progressive...so this is bad comedy.
Kucinich & the Progressive Caucus...our only voice in a corporate house of cards in DC
We don't inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children - Native American proverb
If being cold means there's no such thing as global warming, does being full mean there's no such thing as world hunger?
need to learn how to use tripods & microphones.
Big Dawg is clearly a progressive - he likes BJ's!
(no oral sex for the RW) lol
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
what progressive momentum? If this progressive momentum, who needs GOPer obstructionists and gutless Democrat capitulators?
"gutless Democrat capitulators"
What were you thinking? The Spanish inquisition? (MPFC)
Or . . .
Is there any other kind?
Or
We need them so we can be in the majority and THEN capitulate?
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
that should have read "gutless Democrats who make careers out of capitulating to the GOPer's/Corporatists.
"I think Bill was a tremendous talk-show host—I think of him the same way I think of Oprah. He’s a very clever politician. I’ve met him a couple times, and he’s the kind of person who can remember everybody’s name having only seen them once before. He’s formidable. But I don’t know what he’s about except the greater glory of Bill Clinton...Well, I wrote a lot of columns about the Clintons when he was in office, and I guess my favorite description of him was as a piñata: You could hit him and anything would come out—scandal, gossip, friendship, a speech. I think of them as terminal narcissists. I can remember when Gore was running for office in 2000, he made a speech here in New York, and Clinton came to make a speech as well. It’s the middle of the summer, 2000, Clinton is talking to the entire New York media somewhere down at NYU. The entire speech was about himself. He didn’t mention Gore’s name once. And here we were supposed to be in the middle of an election that was important to win. I think of the Clintons as being out for only themselves. I still remember the photograph of the 16-wheeler truck that was pulled up in front of the White House when they departed, carrying with them everything that could be moved."
In his "eulogy" for the Potato-head, he compared Russert (favorably) to a head-waiter...
but neither is Obama.
I can't see!
Indeed, the puppet masters still grin as they see their people dance in awe.
Much the same as the mindless clapping every 2 seconds, it's as if the masses there are awed by someone who has some grasp of grammer. Then again I suppose that is an achievement locally.
grammar: the system by which words are arranged to convey specific meanings.
grammer: a cheesy, has-been tv 'actor'...
A fair point, I must be experiencing too much from the US, the stupidity is wearing off !!! Nooooooooo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnHllNDcv4A
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The stuuupid ....... it hurts
Did he say, "Well I know you hate my guts, and my wife's but let's let bygones be bygones. So what is a progressive. Let me tell you what a progressive is."
I think both Clinton and Obama are Progresseives but being also pragmatics tend to be incrementalists.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I think you are right as rain.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
No that statement is wrong as rain.
"both Clinton and Obama are Progresseives"
ROTFL
Both MAY believe in their heart of hearts in progressive ideals, but they start negotiating from their fall back position and then totally give in to the other side who then doesn't vote withem anyway.
A progressive would not have signed NAFTA
A progressive would not have signed a stimulus nearly half tax cuts
A progressive would not have proposed health care reform without single payer.
A pregressive would not have
have a lock on the message tho, we don't have time to dally around.
Burn the fuckin' thing down and hit it fresh I say
is the mantra of the teabaggers, the patriot movement, et al.
I was talking about the bi partisan bridge to be clear
Fair enough then. I don't believe in bipartisanship anyway.
like 'faith'), do you have any evidence of this remarkable assertion?
If Bill Clinton is a Progressive, Rush Limbaugh is a moderate.
Firstly: you have to look at their appointments, particularly judicial.
Secondly: you have to look at the language, how belicose and nationalistic are they?
Thirdly: You have to look at their view of governance, does the government play a part in the economy or is it a hindrance?
Fourthly: What moral points do they play up, personal or social?
Fifthly: How optimistic are they? That can be a downfall though, if they are too trusting or underestimate their opposition; Clinton thinking businessmen were essentially honest, but beared watching; Obama's attempts at bipartisanism.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The progressive movement is like Goldstein. You hear about it all the time. But you never actually see it.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
Why all the Clinton hatred here? Get over it.
What has Obama done so far to roll back ANY of the most nefarious of Bush's policies? Hum?
Not signing statements
Immunity for spying telecoms, great.
Has closed door meeting with the phramies and health insurance companies to stab us in the back on health care.
The list goes on.
But Clinton is out there fighting the good fight and all many of the posters here can do is bash him. Nice.
First off, Obama and Clinton are virtually interchangeable idealogically. Obama is not held in any higher regard by progressives at this point.
Second, What good fight?
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
the good fight, he was more interested in pussy, iirc.
He was the fucking President. He had (ostensible) power. Gimme a list of his accomplishments over which a true 'lib/progressive' wouldn't feel the urge to hurl in revusion, please?
Clintoon was the most effective, 'traditional' GOPuke president since Eisenhower...
>a true 'lib/progressive' wouldn't feel the urge to hurl in revusion, please?
That's the bit I'm waiting for .......
Actually any in the last 50 years or so really.
for a man that signed into law NAFTA, welfare reform, the financial services modernization act, the telecomm give-away, and gave a slow hand job to corporate interests i find it hilarious that he thinks he can claim to talk about the progressive movement. he was one of its biggest enemies. yet, i see all the clintonians rushing to heap praise upon the man from dashed-hope. phhptt...
It was a reminder of just how strong Clinton can be when dealing with critics.
Yeah, he's a tough fucker when it comes to attacking the left.
the Fascisti, though? Not so much. After all, they're the ones paying the $250,000 speaking fees...
President Clinton paid a huge political price for trying to reform health care on his watch. Do you even remember the exhaustive, vicious, partisan Starr investigations?
Televangelists were releasing videos accusing the Clintons of having their opponents murdered, Starr conducted an exhaustive and abusive investigation into their private lives, including the accusation that the Clinton's had Vince Foster murdered, the media continually promoted one false "scandal" after another ....
All that happened because Clinton = Reagan, right?
does Clinton pay you to come on here and defend him on almost every post that is negative? See, this is exactly what is wrong with the US, and why no progressive ideas will ever be done. Blind patriotic Dems vs. Rethug mentality, regardless. Clinton was more of a damn Rethuglican than most Rethuglicans. He was no progressive anything. Just because he has a D beside his name is no reason to not question things he did. You seem stuck in the Dems perfect/Rethugs evil category. Take off the blinders.
pay you to come on here and attack the Democrats. I have yet to see you write anything, ever that admits that any Democrat has ever done anything you approved of.
Democrats are not pefect. They are simply better than the alternative. Moving to have more liberal democrats elected is a good thing. Exerting pressure to influence sitting Democratic senators and congresspeople to adopt more liberal policies is a good thing. Claiming that Democrats = Republicans, Gore = Bush, Obama = Cheney - your usual schtick, is pointless at best and actively malicious and destructive at worst.
You just proved my point completely with your display of Democratic Party pompoms. Ya, my schtick is pointless, and your endless cheerleading for the party of "we might do something maybe if the Republicans agree" is doing what exactly? What progressive agendas have the Democratic Party ever done Bob? What's that? Ya, that's right, very little. Oh hell ya, they are the lesser of two evils. Oh man, that's a real reason to blindly follow and support. Oh ya, sure glad you voted for a polished turd, instead of a runny one. And what has that done? NOTHING Bob. Absolutely nothing. You can sit their in your self righteous mode spewing the same endless "oh but wait, if we just push them a little more" mode until hell freezes over. What's it done in the last 30 years? NOTHING. Dem congresscritters and Dem presidents have passed or supported almost every piece of crap Rethug legislation, as much or more than Rethugs themselves. You sir are the reason. Party politics need to stop or this crap will happen until the US finally goes bankrupt or implodes.
This elitist approach you have, "ConcernedCanuck," is a pile of crap. You elitist leftists have done nothing in this country except through the Democratic Party. That's a given. All you guys do is put out good ideas, and demonstrate, and so on. But you can't do a damn thing because you don't have the votes. Period. What did Nader get, by the way? Was it 4 or 5%? It will never be any other way, unless the Big Collapse comes.
Obama's problem is that he's like FDR taking over in 1930. His measures apparently stopped the collapse, and as things return to normal, so is his power.
O has a tough row to hoe, no doubt
The attacks would have happened irregardless of Clinton's valiant failure of health care reform. It's what the republicans do. They have no modus. They just attack any non conservative who holds power.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
...when if they only theorized for themselves, they may have come to realize; That "E pluribus unum" will always trump... "One Nation Under God" we're a melting pot for christ sake...pun intended
A quote I don't see to often that I believe has just merit...
"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."
--Thomas Jefferson
Study the symptoms not the virus...
...that it's OK to change ones opinion, based on the facts!
PS. And for those whom stop at the race / racism label for definitive purposes... I'd suggest you try to figure out what causes it, in all it's degrees of splendor or shame.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
was, is and will be until he dies, part of the Washington elite bullshit that is stopping anything progressive from happening. I cannot believe the support the man has still to this day. It's astounding, it really is. The only thing Bill Clinton has ever cared about is Bill Clinton, and new p*ssy wherever he could find it.
The years of GOP backed Clinton bashing has worked. Wonder how many of you clinton bashers will be singing Prasie for Bush in a few more years?
Go to this site http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/08/1...
He explains why he interrupted Clinton and I think it makes a lot of sense.
Some people just can't let their hate go, and can't listen to what he was saying. What happened to him? The Clinton health plan failed, through an unethical and reactionary opposition and a do-nothing Democratic congress. They flailed, and demonstrated that they had lost any concept of what they were doing. They had a Democratic president, and a Democratic majority in the Congress. What happened? The world was a lot more conservative then. The GOP ran their rumor and "Clinton isn't a real president" campaign with lies and rumors, and what happened? He got destroyed by the Limbaugh buzzsaw, and this was before FOX. This was talk radio. So the same things are running against Obama now. What was he saying? Seize the day. If a less-than-optimal health care plan is the only thing available, take it now. Support the president. Argue with him, demand a single-payer, but if you don't get it, defend our gains. Take it. Then improve it. Do whatever it takes.
By the way, he liked getting challenged on DADT. You could tell. The old Big Dog loves the smashmouth.
Well said. The number of people commenting here who have no sense of political realities is truly astonishing. In this congress you will NOT get single payer or even a really strong public option. Ain't going to happen - the support isn't there with the blue dogs having been bought and paid for by big pharma and the insurance companies.
Take whatever you can get so long as it is a step forward and then prevent the GOP from reversing that step at a later date. The sheer act of getting any bill past that improves the lot of the uninsured or poorly insured, even a little, will guarantee and even bigger majority in the next election cycle. Use that time to work at unseating the blue dogs and their ilk across the floor and replacing them with more progressives. Get a majority in both houses of real progressives and you can then go after single payer.
Regardless of what you (not you Swift2) think of Clinton he is and was an extremely politically savvy politician and failure to listen to what he says will cost you dearly.
http://www.thealders.net/blogs
Just call me Dazed & Confused
are scaring the beejees out of the conservative corporatist, and idiotic talk of civil war brewing at town hall meetings. Churches, and abortion clinic get attack by the crazy fanatics, and yet not one liberal ever lost their way to consider bombing a drug company in retaliation. I take pride in that fact, that the liberal are far more conservatives in not losing faith in our system of voicing our dissent. The crazy speak loud for they are few!
All you have to know is that during the Clinton years the rich got richer and the poor got poorer. I agree with Michael Moore's assessment of Clinton's eight years in office when he said "Bill Clinton is perhaps the best Republican president we've had since Abraham Lincoln."
...Bill Clinton is neither a progressive nor an expert on progressivism. The Great Triangulator should stick to lecturing us on how to play one side off against the other.
via IMDb: Coincidence?
http://rapidshare.com/files/267474422/Clinton...
David Neiwert! If you have any future video that needs adjusting for tracking, and clean up, feel free to hit up on me! I'm 80% deaf and adjusting the tracking makes it much easier for me to understand what Bill Clinton is saying. I rely on partial lipreading and sound, so any video you need to clean up is open to anyone for the sole purpose of Crooks and Liars publishing. I think it's important that everyone can watch the video and speech, even the disable.
Bill Clinton does not have a progressive bone in his body. He pushed forth a Ronald Reagan agenda while he was president. I lived through his regime as governor here in Arkansas and examples of how he screwed working people and kissed up to the rich in Arkansas could fill volumes. J. Bill Becker, who was president of the A.F.L.-C.I.O. in Arkansas while Clinton was governor summed him up best when he said: "Bill Clinton is the kind of guy who will pat you on your back and piss on your leg at the same time."
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