Gun sales and the paranoid right: A sucker born every minute
By David Neiwert Wednesday Nov 12, 2008 1:20pmBefore Election Day, the NRA was doing what it always does: Raising the specter of the liberal bogeyman -- you know, the Incipient Dictator Who Wants To Take Your Guns Away -- in the person of Barack Obama. See, for instance, this ad.
So it shouldn't really be a big surprise that, after the election, one of the only segments of the retail economy that did well was in guns:
Weapons dealers in much of the United States are reporting sharply higher sales since Barack Obama won the presidency a week ago.
Buyers and sellers attribute the surge to worries that Obama and a Democratic-controlled Congress will move to restrict firearm ownership, despite the insistence of campaign aides that the president-elect supports gun rights and considers the issue a low priority. Video Watch shoppers snap up guns of all types »
According to FBI figures for the week of November 3 to 9, the bureau received more than 374,000 requests for background checks on gun purchasers -- a nearly 49 percent increase over the same period in 2007. Conatser said his store, Virginia Arms Company, has run out of some models -- such as the AR-15 rifle, the civilian version of the military's M-16 -- and is running low on others.
Such assault weapons are among the firearms that gun dealers and customers say they fear Obama will hit with new restrictions, or even take off the market.
There is also a racial component to these fears, which surfaces in attitudes like those voiced in this NYT piece about the decline of the South's political influence:
"I am concerned," Gail McDaniel, who owns a cosmetics business, said in the parking lot of the Shop and Save. "The abortion thing bothers me. Same-sex marriage."
"I think there are going to be outbreaks from blacks," she added. "From where I'm from, this is going to give them the right to be more aggressive."
But mostly, this is paranoia about gun ownership whipped up by the NRA:
The NRA believes Mr. Obama would restrict handguns and raise taxes on ammunition, effectively quintupling the cost of bullets.
"Barack Obama would be the most anti-gun president in history - bar none," NRA chief lobbyist Chris Cox wrote in a Washington Post op-ed last month.
It's those allegations that seem to have caught the attention of certain gun owners.
"They're like, 'Hey, maybe I should buy one of these before they become illegal,' " Mr. Chee said, going so far as to add: "If you look in any NRA magazine or you're into guns, you see a lot of bills that are in the works."
Mind you, there is no indication whatsoever that Obama intends to make gun control a priority in his first term. It went largely unmentioned during the campaign, except this brief allusion during his Denver acceptance speech:
The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than for those plagued by gang-violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals.
Indeed, when the gun-sales data emerged, the Obama camp had this to say:
"What people do is their own business, and if they decide to go out and buy guns they'll go out and buy guns, assuming that they are eligible to buy guns," John Podesta, the co-chairman of Obama's transition team, told reporters Sunday. "But I think that President-elect Obama has been clear in his campaign that what he wants to focus on is the economy, trying to get jobs growing again, dealing with the health care crisis, and dealing with our dependence on foreign oil."
It's worth remembering, perhaps, that the NRA is largely underwritten by the arms-manufacturing industry. So of course it makes sense for them to fearmonger an Obama presidency as much as possible -- you can see the results right now.
The people snapping up all those guns right now? Well, right-wing outfits like the NRA wouldn't exist if not for P.T. Barnum's famous observation.
Login or Register to post comments.
Barack Obama wasn't even elected and he already began to boost the economy by increasing gun sales. What a genius. And he continues to boost the economy as president elect
Remember when Cheney listed a bunch of items that could stave off a nuclear winter and one of them was duct tape? And everybody went out and bought a ton of duct tape?
Im pretty sure cheney had a bet going to dubya that he could convince americans to buy friggin anything....
*Cheney* a big donor told me his son just opened a hardware store...i think ill help him out by saying the best way to ward off microwave radiation is to have some screwdrivers or plungers nearby.
Pretty sure it was Tom Ridge that advised plastic sheets and duct tape to ward of Chem/Bio attacks.
I was being sarcastic.
Are these the same morons who feigned outrage when Obama said they cling to their guns and bibles?
Looks like he was right.
They have nothing else... no jobs, little education, and not much money. The future doesn't look bright for them.
I am concerned about the reaction to Obama's presidency being that of fear. I am also concerned that scared people feel they need to buy guns, but to characterize these people as unemployed, ignorant, poor folks is no different than the right's vilification of welfare recipients.
I personally know and work with several people that felt this way. In this respect their response was, I believe, irrational, but they themselves to a person are generally intelligent thoughtful people. Oh, and they are also to a person college graduates or even post-graduates. I honestly don't understand their response, and I find it alarming, but branding them ignorant, unemployed peasants is intellectually dishonest and lazy.
A Texan came over to work with us in Sydney, Australia for a while. It was his first time.
In central Sydney, we walked to go get lunch and he pulled me aside and said 'Don't you ever get scared?' as we were walking across a busy street, i assumed he meant of traffic hitting us, but I asked 'Of what?'
'Well, aren't allowed to carry a gun around. Don't you get scared that someone will attack or shoot you?'
At this point, i stopped in the middle of the road because I was so dumbfounded. Quickly realising and walking across the street i simply turned and said 'Look around at all the people here. None of them have guns either.'
After a moment, I think he absorbed what I was saying then said: 'But criminals will have guns.'
'Only the serious hard-core ones, and they tend to shoot each other rather than random strangers.'
We walked in relative silence after that.
I suppose it was a culture clash of sorts. I'm not sure he was fully convinced. I was convinced that it is cultural, and in a culture awash with guns, it must be comforting to have one too.
Changing from a culture of guns to one without must be incredibly difficult. As ridiculous as I find the NRA, I can kinda see why they hold such power. The pretty much own fear & insecurity.
I have similar experiences with Americans. They cannot believe for the life of them that a country could stop from turning into complete anarchy without having guns in every community.
Honestly, I cannot tell you how much safer I feel here. That's not to say the thought of a terrorist attack never crosses my mind, but I don't have to worry about being caught in a driveby, caught in an armed robbery, being car-jacked, or simply being gunned down by a nutter.
As one would logically expect, the murder rate is "tragically" low.
(which shows how long ago it was) and found the same mentality. There was a literal mental block with some of them. They simply could not conceive a society functioning without them. It didn't matter that you could point to any number of countries with strong gun controls. It was like they simply couldn't process the information.
Extremism, in all its forms & topics does that I suppose.
They realize that all the states the Brady campaign gives high marks for those "strong gun controls" are also the states the FBI gives a failing grade for their high amounts of violent crimes. Funny how you are less likely to be mugged whether you are carrying a firearm or not... if you are in a state where the mugger knows it's legal for you to carry one. It's all about taking risks, make the criminals take one and crime drops.
Switzerland has mandatory military membership, and mandatory gun ownership for a large portion of their population. They also have roughly HALF the murders per capita than you bloodthirsty Australians. ;)
I wonder why?
Australia banned guns in 1996. Prior to that date, crime in Australia had been steadily dropping for 25 years. After the banning, armed robberies have jumped 46%. Gun related homicides in the state of Victoria have skyrocketed 300%. In fact, since the banning homicides have been up countrywide almost 4%.
Why? What would cause such a dramatic upswing of violent crime after 25 years of enjoying a dropping crime rate? It almost seems like now that criminals have nothing to fear when assaulting a stranger, well, they have nothing to fear.
I know several of these people myself. They are just as you described. They are genuinely frightened - let's not pour gas on the fire by branding them ignorant rubes. My strategy has been to talk to them calmly, stating facts about Obama, and calmly assuring them that there is nothing to be frightened of. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, but it seems more effective than simply dismissing them as morons.
Gee, guess I'm missing something here. Perhaps I'm judging all of the guns and jesus folks by the voters in my neighborhood. I have had conversations with these people and they are ignorant and that's why all I say is "hi and bye". It's no use getting into a discussion with people that insist that Obama is a Muslim and a Rev Wright Christian at the same time. They get their news from Fox and their favorite radio show is Rush.
If you work with intelligent people then maybe you can convince them that Democrats are not going to take their guns away. I worked with "educated" people and when Bush was re-elected, one of these "educated" people told me that "things would be okay" with four more years of Bush. Looks like his education didn't prepare him for reality.
Cats - could you possibly paint with a broader brush? Sheesh!
Exactly, they ARE CLINGING TO THEIR GUNS!!!
Anyway that ABC piece was utter shit. Pure parroting of NRA right wing morons. wtf?!
[Deleted. Abusive. You're a moron and obviously part of the paranoid right, judging from the screed you posted. This thread is dead dead dead, and has been since before Thanksgiving. It's the last half of January. And you're banned-Sitemonitor]
They have whipped up such a lot of fear and anger that I'm not at all surprised to see this happening.
They will make guns and gays their issues. Let's just hope they don't start acting out.
"Outbreaks from blacks." Like this one?
Beware Morgan Freeman and Cuba Gooding Jr!
We as progressives need guns.
My M4 is locked and loaded ready for any jackbooted bastard who tries
to fuck with my neighborhood. In the words of Will Smith.."don't start
nothin' won't be nothin'". It's whites that start all the bullshit.
I am white, unless you ask my hill trash grandma (dad's side) that
calls my Milanese mother a n______!
I too go to the shooting range often and respect the freedom to bear arms. I also realize that as a liberal in an ever divided nation - in a paranoid worst-case scenario - we liberals are out gunned. But, I also been on the wrong end of a few guns in my life because of homophobia.
It is a delicate issue. When a gun is held to your head you don't care if it's an AK-47 or a purse gun, if it's a cop or a redneck bigot.
If we live in a nation where cigarettes can be banned, taxed and restricted, drugs made illegal and so many other restrictions for "personal safety", then we live in a nation where guns can be taxed, restricted and made illegal when needed. Hypocrisy on this issue is just mind-numbing.
Stupid Git wrote:
If we live in a nation where cigarettes can be banned, taxed and restricted, drugs made illegal and so many other restrictions for "personal safety", then we live in a nation where guns can be taxed, restricted and made illegal when needed. Hypocrisy on this issue is just mind-numbing.
Git,
Last time I checked, cigarettes and drugs were not a constitutionally protected right.
I've said this again and again to pro gun "liberals" (I use that term loosely because I think all liberals should embrace this right)--If you don't like guns, then change the constitution. It is tough, but can be done. Until that time, stop trying to pretend the right does not exist.
I totally respect the right to own a gun and use a gun. That said, there are things we can do that don't restrict this right but can help protect people from this.
Try having a few barrels pointed at your head by people who hate you out of bigotry as I have and see how you feel about guns after that.
I totally respect what you're saying. But I've been chased with a hammer and I've had a knife at my throat before, so how far are we willing to go with weapons restrictions?
to outrun a knife than a bullet.
You'll never stop people killing & threatening each other, but why make it as easy as possible?
The only thing I disagree with in your statement is the analogy to cigs and drugs and regulate, restrict and tax. Others use the drivers license example. It is an apples to oranges comparison. The difference is that the right to bear arms IS a constitutionally protected right. Therefore, it is in a whole separate category. With the stuff you mention, the question is "do we as a society want this?" If so, or if not, then fine-pass a law.
The question with "restricting" and taxing guns is tougher. It is "Does this violate my rights under the constitution?" If the answer is "no"-as in yelling "fire" in a theater is illegal but deemed not to infringe my 1st amendment rights, then fine.
However, if it is a scenario like the poll tax instituted in the south to restrict blacks from exercising their constitutional right to vote, then that is a different matter. (not a bad analogy, since I personally find many gun control measures to have their roots in racism and classism.)
For example, the current version of the DC gun laws would require me to spend about $250 dollars to exercise my right and the process takes several weeks. Is that too steep? Does that penalize poor people? Thats what the courts have to decide. You may think either yes, or no, but question that needs to be answered is "does it violate my constitutional right?"
Why it is illegal for me to smoke a joint, yet I can go downtown and pick up an AK47 that's capable of pumping 600 rounds per minute clear through a car engine block?
Handguns, rifles, shotguns (i.e. hunting and sporting guns) are perfectly fine, however NO ONE needs a fully automatic AK47 in their house. Of course, getting an AK these days is easier than getting an eight of weed, and we wonder why violence rates are so high in this country....
As a liberal gun owner, I can assure that you cannot "go downtown and pick up an AK47 that's capable of pumping 600 rounds per minute". It's not that easy--despite what the NYT would have you believe (don't get me wrong, I love the NYT, but they are off base on this issue)
This is also where the left gets it wrong. Criminals aren't performing hold ups or shooting deaths with AK's,... over 90% of all crimes in this country are done with small arms. Over 90% of the crimes committed with firearms are done at ranges of 30' or LESS,... & over 90% of hand gun deaths are committed by people who are 'intimately aquainted' with each other,... family members, co-workers, et al,... which means that gun crimes are crimes of passion, & are more of a social issue than a crime issue or legislative issue,...
Stats are from the FBI records.
And banning 'assault weapons' isn't dong anything; the average weapon legislators are targeting with their assault weapon classification are chambered in something like 9MM for the Uzi & MP5, or .223 for the M16. The kinetic dump on these rounds are much smaller than the massive power found in most hunting weapons.
As I said before, when the barrel is against your head (as I've had a few times) you don't are what make or model it is.
I respect the right to own guns, I just don't think it should be easier than buying a pack of smokes or a beer.
The 2nd Amendment was written at a time when a firearm could actually protect you from a foreign invasion. Now we have a military force for that, we have law enforcement for that... we don't need a heavily armed citizenry for national defense.
Concealed weapons should be outlawed.
But as written doesn't the Second Amendment allude more to the citizens protection from a government armed force? Or at least it seems to have been the intent from the writings of the liberal Age of Enlightenment framers of the Constituion. It's worth remembering that historiclly the right of citizens to bare arms is a liberal stance. The days of the Irish being only allowed a stick smaller then a certain diameter and length I believe are historically relegated to the pages of right wing feudalism. Which is precisely why the framers put the Amendment in as written.
I'd add that while on the whole I don't like generalizations sometimes they are useful. To some extent it could be said that one aspect of the gun-control~vs~gun-rights is 'no guns equals no problem'~vs~no criminally-minded people with guns equals no problem'. As far as keeping guns out of criminals hands I think everyone is pretty much in agreement. (except maybe the nra, but I'm not going to ask right now) What we need to do is work out an acceptable way to both groups to acceive that goal. There are many laws and programs at work towards that. But as in any system there are flaws. It's our responsiblity to work together to protect my right to protect the Constitution from despotism(and to hunt and target shoot to stay in pratice for that) AND to protect your right to NOT have a gun shoved in your face. I don't have any problem working towards something like that.
Also NO WHERE in America is buying any gun easier then buying a pack of ciggerettes or a beer!!! You DO know that don't you? I mean at least LEGALLY it isn't! If you know of anywhere it is you should report it to the police or ATF. Because it isn't legal! There is a tad bit of paperwork involved in buying a gun from any licensed gunshop that is quite a bit more involved then the avergae beer or smoke purchase. If you are refering to private sells then the same thing apply to guns as it does to smokes or beer. If the private sell is to some one not legally allowed to buy it through the licensed store then it is a crime. Kay?
"Assault bans" is just a term used by gun grabbers that has no basis in reality. Just like "cop killer bullets" and "gun show loophole." They don't have the facts to back up their argument so they rely on emotive language.
My neighbor had a hand gun, sounded like a semi, that he would shoot whenever he got angry with someone. The time of day didn't matter. It was particularly frightening when I would here these bangs in the middle of the night. He is now sitting in jail for illegal arms (didn't have a hand gun permit), terrorist threats and for parole violation. He can rot there as far as I'm concerned. When he lived next door, I was afraid to walk around my property because I never knew where he was pointing his gun. Other neighbors do target practice and I know where they are shooting so they don't frighten me. But a nutcase with a gun that shoots indiscriminately does scare me.
He violated the law, so now he is in jail. That's the way it should be. However, don't tell me that, as a law abiding citizen that I cannot own a gun because of your crazy neighbor.
I used to favor strict gun control, until the prospect of a martial law coup by Bush made me reconsider. The citizens of the banana republics are not allowed to have guns. The number of guns in private hands may have prevented America from becoming a fascist state.
Gun sales and the paranoid right: A sucker born every minute
I know I was never weaned.
This is Steve, up in Anchorage.
I am a die-hard gun lover. I always have been. Born and raised in rural michigan, it was just part of growing up. But my family is largely progressive folks. We all supported OBAMA.
This is a manufactured fear issue to drum up gun nuts. The surpreme court upheld gun ownership just a few months ago. Obama has better things to do than try to take away guns. The NRA doesn't even stand for regular folk. It is a myth that they care about rights. All they care about is making sure remington, winchester, etc sell guns. (And I own remingtons, winchesters etc. )
It drives me crazy that people who are such nutz about the 2nd amendment, don't care about the 4th amendment. Or any of the 4th thru 9th..Hint Patriot Act, FISA, Guantanamo, torture, habeous corpus etc etc etc...
Check out the Obama symbol we made out of people on youtube. At another event, some of us had signs that said "Gun Nuts Aginst Palin" She ie a terrible representative for gun-owners. She can't articulate any complex issue or even explain the difference of one gun to another. I don't recall specifically but I was probably packing both times. We are All democrats, we may not understand eachother's points of view, but we can respect each other.
And again, jesus, Obama has better things to do than worry about taking away guns from Steve the Gun-Nut in Alaska. Economy, iraq, al qaeda, north korea, energy, ....
-Steve, the gun nut in Alaska
Great post.
Thanks, Steve.
I grew up in Idaho, the son of a (former) lifetime NRA member and part-time gunsmith. I only own a single gun now (bird gun that I haven't used in 20 years), but I still respect people who own guns for perfectly legitimate reasons.
Its hunting season now and as I found out in my new job, every other person I work with is disappearing off for a few days to hunt DEER, they are filling up chest freezers with deer meat for the winter.
So any perceived threat to 'guns' is an indirect threat to take food off the family table.
In my last job only a coupe of people hunted, not so at the new one.
Hunting is not something that urban people do or come into contact with much, out in the sticks its part of life, and an important thing in troubled economic times.
Some people have long memories about depressions, witness the meme about banks foreclosing the family farm in Hollywood films.
and out in the sticks, guns are just one of a few cures for boredom. Mix in a few beers and it's just like fishing, but without the element of catch and release. Yes, there's hunting. Some is food and some is trophy.
Yep, I've got deer meat in my freezer too, have had the knife at my throat, been beaten half to death, been poisoned (all before the age of 18) and my attitude is that we are all the militia against any form of tyranny or initiated violence and everyone should be armed.
If you don't believe that citizen ownership of firearms deters crime, check the crime rates of Kennesaw, GA, where gun ownership is required, against any other municipality of its size. And no, Kennesaw is not a small town, it has major shopping malls and other urban accoutrements.
This is not racism. Crime here is mostly white, mostly druggie, and increasing in ratio to the decline of the economy and the low-end job market.
Gun ownership is required? Is this by local law?
It's a city ordinance. Purely symbolic, because it's completely unenforceable.
You couldn't be more correct about Obama's position on gun ownership. At the time of the Supreme Court ruling earlier this year and throughout the campaign, he consistently agreed with the interpretation of the Court that the second amendment addresses an individual right to bear arms. The NRA wants to remain a dominant force, so it will always see a big marketing opportunity to use someone who is a perceived liberal like Obama to stir up the old fears and make itself more relevant. It doesn't hurt gun sales either if there are people out there screaming that any day now only some government agency will be allowed to sell weapons.
Listen to Steve folks. The sky isn't falling, at least as far as second amendment rights are concerned. Stay cool.
Pure and simple, it is "wedge" issue among Democrats, and the NRA wants to exploit that.
This is a much more thoughtful post than, they are all just idiots.
Well said, Steve.
I go nuts about people who spout off so loudly about the 1st, 3rd, and 4th amendments but try to pretend like the 2nd does not exist. You gotta love and defend 'em all.
Pretty much right there with you Steve. Grew up around them all my life on a small farm in VT back in the 60's. Shooting 22's with my 6 year old sister when I was 9. Responsibly!!! But we also had a book shelf like the one in the pic of the Stas post. ;-) Education is key to so much in our lives. I'm into early breach loaders these days myself, a lot of history and fun to load for and shoot.
Well stated. I, too, often wonder why some of these gun crazies only care about the 2nd amendment while handing over all their rights to the government. It doesn't make sense to me.
Gail,
"I think there are going to be outbreaks from blacks," she added. "From where I'm from, this is going to give them the right to be more aggressive."
You should open your eyes and ears... It is a large number of white people who are losing their minds over this matter. Wake up, Gail. Don't fall for the bigoted message in your "news".
You gotta love the logic, no? Now that black people have a black president, it'll give them license to buy guns and be violent. So I better get me a gun, before the president takes my rights away.
I dunno, but it seems to me that, for the last millennium or so, the most violent and dangerous demographic has been the white, heterosexual, Christian male. :)
WASP suits them so well.
I lived in Eastern Oregon for ten years and had three guns pulled on me by homophobic white bigots.
I've lived in NYC now for ten years and had one gun pulled on me by a white cop.
I've never once had a person of any color but white pull a weapon on me.
And I am white myself.
I live not too far from Gail, over the Mississippi border. I wish I could say she's an aberration from the norm around here. But I can't. That really is how a great many southern whites think about black people.
I just received the contents of this article in an email that had been sent to at least 60 people:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/200811...
An outwardly racist rant from a political shill called Tom Adkins who, if you Google him, has some "interesting" opinions. For example, he slammed the Catholic Church for trying to cover up sex abuse, then almost immediately after tried to cover for Republican Rep. Tom Foley, who had sexual relations with an underage boy. He also claimed before the bubble burst that home prices would go up 10% and that there was nothing wrong with all-interest loans. Hmm.
Anyway, I immediately sent an email to every address on this list calling out the spreading of this racist hate speech. The hate is starting to spread, and we need to do everything we can to stop it now.
"I am concerned. The abortion thing bothers me. Same-sex marriage. I think there are going to be outbreaks from blacks," she added. "From where I'm from, this is going to give them the right to be more aggressive."
Yes! Beware roving gangs of gun-toting scary black dudes who will force you to have an abortion and become gay!
LMAO
If anything has ever prompted me to want to lock and load, it's been eight years under a neo-conservative, imperialist administration that felt no compunction about restricting free speech and a free press, arresting journalists, spying on its citizens, openly arguing that the Constitution gave it "near dictatorial" commander-in-chief powers, and scoring political points by scapegoating liberals and gay people.
One thing managed to do it make us nearly as paranoid as they are. But I will NEVER be as big of a chickenshit, shadow-jumper as these neocon clowns.
They have such guilty consciences, they think everybody else has done what they do and is out to get them.
Scared of change, scared of people talking, scared of equality, scared of other people getting the same breaks and equal chances they got.
The NRA is much like the tobacco industry as they deal in death and market the hell out of it.
They care not a whit for the people, as with the tobacco industry,
only profits matter. Bunch of souless cowards.
Yes the SCOTUS upheld gun rights recently in regards to the illegal DC checkpoints, but Washington DC has yet to comply with that ruling.
Don't give Obama all of the credit for the recent spike in gun sales.
I'm sure you could give alot of credit to what happened in Katrina and every other recent domestic disaster, where the first thing that happens is the local cops come in and confiscate weapons.
You also can give some credit to Northcom and their recent decision to have a domestic military unit on standby.
Or, you can just pretend that we aren't moving towards a police state and continue to paint real issues as paranoia.
Whichever makes you happy.
You make good points, SlaveryIsFreedom, though there has been an advertising push using Obama's election.
I'm sure you could give alot of credit to what happened in Katrina and every other recent domestic disaster, where the first thing that happens is the local cops come in and confiscate weapons.
So apparently having a gun really isn't a defense against the police state.
SlaveryIsFreedom wrote:
Don't give Obama all of the credit for the recent spike in gun sales.
I'm sure you could give alot of credit to what happened in Katrina and every other recent domestic disaster, where the first thing that happens is the local cops come in and confiscate weapons.
From Niewert's link in the OP:
According to FBI figures for the week of November 3 to 9, the bureau received more than 374,000 requests for background checks on gun purchasers -- a nearly 49 percent increase over the same period in 2007.
Up 49% over the same period last year. Why would Katrina have an effect on gun sales in a given specific week in '07 compared to that same week in '08?
US and Canadian troops can be used and swapped on eithers territory, it was signed on feb 14th San Antonio TX.
Details on the Northcom website.
Most likely highly illegal and unconstitutional.
I don't remember Congress changing the law or asking the American public if they wanted foreign troops on US streets.
http://www.northcom.mil/News/2008/021408.html
If I owned a gun shop, I'd be lying and alarming these stupid, mouth breathing Jethroes and Ellie May's too.
make me happy that I left the US six years ago. I did vote our guy in BTW-- just coz I'm not there doesn't mean I don't care.
This entire issue is such a bullshit red herring. The federal government will never take away our guns. Why? Because we have guns! There are not enough military and police in this country to forcibly confiscate all privately owned firearms. And the individuals that make up our police and military are also a very large part of the pool of private firearm owners. They will never enforce a law banning all privately owned firearms, period.
Gail,
"I think there are going to be outbreaks from blacks," she added. "From where I'm from, this is going to give them the right to be more aggressive."
Yeah because we all collectively decided to be real calm while we lose jobs and get racially profiled and then just when we see great signs of progress...WE GO CRAZY
Oh shit, that's funny. I can't wait to use that one when I hear somebody talking about how "they" are going to be out of control now.
I just heard on tv that the two biggest selling products now are safes and guns. Lots of people are pulling their money out of the markets and banks and buying home safes to put it in. Maybe some of these same people are buying a gun for the first time to protect that safe and money from burglers. Just a thought.
Do you think that they understand that if the economy really crashes that the cash will not be worth much?
(note that this excludes reasonable, ADULT-thinking NRA members)
Sit down, shut up and eat your peas. Nobody is taking away your little toys.
While we are on it:
Quit being sissies and take some self-defense courses or learn to box or some shit if you are so concerned for your safety. Maybe stay in well-lit areas late at night. Get an alarm system for your home. Whatever you gotta do to feel "safe". Other than that, you are more likely to shoot somebody you know than go all Quick Draw McGraw on a mugger and 'pwn' his thieving ass, ok?
/snarky rant
reading this woman's words makes me sad for her. She is one of the people that Obama wants to help, yet she cannot see that. She is blinded by imaginary fears that prey on her darkest of thoughts.
On gun control, why is this always a bloody issue? I swear every two years or so gun control or gun rights gets trotted out to do a little dance for the masses, to rile up the fringe. Can we put away gun issues until we have the economy, two wars, and all the other urgent issues addressed?
Is that she WILL be helped by the Obama Administration. She'll soak up all the good things that come with a country not being run by a lot of crooks, liars, and immature assholes. Yet she'll find ways to thank her republican idols and curse Obama all the way to her grave.
THAT irritates me.
I'm getting (well I got) real tired of statements like, the blacks will be more agressive (like we are some kind of wild animal species). A woman at work after the election said not knowing someone would go behind her back and tell one of the blacks "she's scared now that Obama will be president". Ooo I'm trying to not let these people take time off my life from being angry, I have to remember it's a small ignorant sector of the population...
wooo sahhhh! SERENITY NOW!
There were a lot more whites (in numbers, not percent) voting against Obama because he was black than there were blacks voting for Obama because he was black.
As I said in an earlier post, the hate speech is being bantered around as freely about blacks as Hitler talked about the Jews before he started rounding them up. This is not something to take lightly. We all need to speak up.
I know I'm wrong about it being a small segment but it's what get me out of bed in the morning without being bitter.
I had an e-mail forwarded to me back about a month or so before the election saying how the 'blacks' would be rioting if McCain won. I e-mailed backing saying that while I didn't know for sure what the 'blacks' would be doing I know damn good and well that there'd be a few million extremely pissed off vets and active duty military people who'd probably be rioting like crazy. Since the only way a McCain win could happen would be extremely massive election fraud.
Guess that's a long way around to saying I hear what you're saying.
In Florida today a 15 year old girl shot and killed another 15 year old girl in a high school. That's why gun laws should be tightened.
is stupid gun owners.
Like the guy killed by his own 8 year old son.
And the fellow who got a close up view of his little boy putting an UZI bullet through his own head at a gun show shooting range.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Guns just make the killing a lot easier.
Buy one, get one free. That's gotta be what happened.
*snark off*
is on everyone's agenda as far as the media is concerned right? We're all hearing it and repeating it all the time. It really means stop torturing people, stop attacking sovereign nations, and live up to the rule of international law. It seems that stories like this are symptoms of a much larger problem. What is America? Is it more than a collection of cliche country songs and slogans? Is it a vague idea or a very specific one? If you felt the patriotic stir that Rove and Cheney were attempting to manufacture through fear, maybe that's what America really is. That's a story that seems to get no play on Drudge, or the Huffington Post. What is the shared morality that REALLY makes us Americans? Is it an opposition to gay marriage? Abortion? For a surprising number of the electorate this seems to be the only yardstick by which to measure our collective morality. Gun ownership? Is this our morality?
Gay Rights Protest tonight
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008
Time: 6:30pm - 8:00pm
Location: New York Manhattan Mormon Temple
Street: 125 Columbus Ave at 65th Street
City/Town: New York, NY
more guns to find their way into the hands of children.
We're here; we're queer; we don't want any more bears.
Homer J. Simpson
The whole world revolves around them and their guns.
Apparently Obama made a comment years ago, when he was in the Illinois legislature, about a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on guns and ammo being a good idea.
They've convuluted that to mean that as soon as Obama gets into office, he'll impose a 500% tax on guns and ammo, to "quintuple the price of their guns." Such rumors are all over the internet.
They obviously can't even do enough math to discern the difference between a 500% tax INCREASE and a 500% tax, let alone consider that Obama and Congress will probably have considerably more pressing issues for quite some time.
But their paranoia is good for gun dealers, economically speaking.
...the gun dealers are probably spreading the rumors themselves! Nothing like a little paranoia and fear to boost sales.
I was wondering about that "quintupling the cost of ammo" statement.
It reminds me of what Chris Rock said - "we need bullet control, not gun control!"
So if the federal excise tax was 1% and there was a 500% increase, that would make it go up 6 times to 6%, which would not be an usurious tax. ( A 100% increase is a doubling ) However, if the tax was 10%, then it would go up to 60%, which would be seen as usurious. So the actual rise in the price of ammo would depend on the initial tax.
So they don't even understand that by their logic a 500% increase would be a 6x cost.
People's mathematical education is just pitiful.
The increase in costs of metals because of the enrgy crisis created by a number of circumstances such as the Iraq war and the uncontroled greed of certain energy corps has increased the cost of ammo way more in the past year then any new tax increase will!
I like the idea of an increase in the cost of bullets. That may make people more conservative in using these bullets. And maybe more people would make their own bullets which is time consuming. And, btw, I do own a rifle.
Obama said that people were bitter and clung to their guns and religion. Well, here is proof that half of what he said was true.
Listening to the people speaking on camera, what a bunch of ignorant, fear mongering buffoons.
It's almost like some people can't thrive without fear in their lives. Fear the terrorist, Fear gay marriage, Fear losing gun rights...it's just fear fear fear. Do they need this "fear" to bring them together as a group? Is that their uniting force and if it is, what is their reasoning?
The movie kind of sucked, but this "terrorist" character asks an interesting question, "Without villians, could there be heroes?" Which reminds me of a comment Bill Maher made about religion in discussing his new movie - the reason the Devil can't be killed by Jesus is that then the story would be over. (He compared it to comic books in that Dr. Doom can never be killed by the Fantastic 4 or else the series would be done with)
Is it fear that makes them feel alive?
Gail McDaniel: Poster child for all that is wrong with this country.
25 most important pieces of advice were to Obama last Monday?
Maybe the endorsement of Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence formerly know as Handgun Control Inc.
Maybe the statements in the urban policy of Change.gov that have been taken down.
- Address Gun Violence in Cities: As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade.
- Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn’t have them.
- They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof.
- They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent, as such weapons belong on foreign battlefields and not on our streets.
Some of the nuttier of the gun-nuts can be found in the ak-47 forums. Some of their posts are pretty scarry, stuff like preparing for the next civil war. Some of it is pure comedy. For instance they are in a tizzy over 7.62x39 (ak-47 ammo) being bought up by their kind right after the election. Now its scarce and jumping up in price. They throw out all sorts of names in reference to President-elect Obama, and love throwing around the term socialist. Makes you wonder if they see the irony in complaining about the price increases of communist weapons and ammo being bought up in a panic because of fear of a socialist agenda, allegedly to take away their weapons and ammo.
A friend of mine was commenting on how he visits one site, where they like to use 'Hussein' Obama as a smear. He signed up and was shortly thereafter banned for the user name Jesus Hussein Christ.
and Gail is worried people will become emboldened to break the law, NOW???
Bush has shown nothing but contempt for the rule of law and the US Constitution. Now we get a Constitutional lawyer as President, and these crackers are worried people will use that as an opportunity to "break out"? Of course in her world, "breaking out" includes exercising one's voting franchise.
When guns become illegal, only criminals will have guns.
When rape becomes illegal, only criminals will be rapists.
If I was high right now.
Seeing that I'm not, that's one hell of a leap of logic.
I AM high right now, and it makes no sense.
Make no sense to me either but I think it's convinced me I should go get high though.
Save some for Me!
I can't find mine.
.
So, if same sex marriage is made illegal, only same sex couples will get married?
So THAT is why same sex marriage threatens the institution of marriage!!!
OK! NOW I get it! ;-)
I had no idea some of the people I surround myself with were Republicans. We were chatting the day after the election and one of them said something to the effect of "As soon as I get my next paycheck its going towards 4 of [some type of gun] before its too late. You know the first thing he's gonna do is take away our guns." Then a round of racist jokes ensued. I was blown away.
I hadn't heard Barack Obama say one thing about gun rights during the campaign. He certainly didn't pretend to be a hunter like Kerry did. Maybe that hurt him? :P
Yeah, it hurt him all the way into the WH. You might even say....faster than a speeding bullet?
:)
Fuck these paranoid assholes. Let them have their guns. I don't even have a problem with guns or the average gun owner. If these new gun owners want to accidentally blow their own big toes off, that's their business. Let them have their expensive toys that they only use for the occasional target practice.
I mean, seriously, what DO they imagine they are going to accomplish with their 9mm Glocks and .22 rifles? Draw down on a mugger? Fight back the tanks and attack helicopters and smart bombs and body armor and and and....when and if someone should declare Marshall Law? Puhlease!
do you REALLY want a bunch of knuckle-dragging, prognathous-jawed, monobrowed HSA airport "inspectors" rolling around the country, armed with open warrants and automatic weapons?
I mean, who ELSE are they gonna hire?
"I think there are going to be outbreaks from blacks," she added. "From where I'm from, this is going to give them the right to be more aggressive."
If it was a just world, Michelle Obama would march right over to Gail's house and kick her ignorant ass.
The MSM is spinning this story. Gun sales are way up, but not out of fear of an Obama presidency, but the economy melting down. Sales of safes are skyrocketing.
Today people in big companies like Merril Lynch referred to the Great Depression when describing the current climate.
A week ago the talk on Fast Money was an unemployment rate of 8 percent. Today they are now talking 10 and 12 percent and this is before the Big 3 automakers go belly up.
Republicans never understood the real motor behind the American economy, a large and prosperous middle class. When it shrinks and gets poorer the rich will too. Trickle down remains voodoo economics.
Eventually the government will have no choice but to stop the printing presses. Banks will close and the FDIC will run out of money. People are pulling their money out of banks and putting it in safes in their houses and they plan on keeping it secure with the firearms they are purchasing.
Agreed. My home was recently burglerized while I was at work - I work 4pm - midnight. The only thing stolen were my Lortab/Vicoden. I receive scripts for 520 pills for three months. It was clearly someone who knows I get them.
Anyway, back to my point. Both the police and the detectives told me that robberies are skyrocketing and are expected to get much worse.
It is hunting season so this could also be having an effect on the gun sales. Then there is the question regarding the safety of our factory farmed meats. Around here, some folks are avid hunters and others will only buy locally raised meat and foul.
How could this be motivated by anything other than hatred of black people? These right wing bigots want to keep black people down- and they are **SO** offfended by a black man being president-
If these KKK and skinhead types had their way, all black people would be lynched or shot, and slavery would be brought back..
If only these right wing skinhead yahoos would put their guns in their mouths and pull the triggers so they could be with their beloved Jesus.I am so sick of reich wing scum- these racists bastards have brought nothing but pain and suffering to this country.
I just hope Secret Service is very proactive and goes after any group that even jokes about threatening President Obama.
Join today before they take your guns away! What a bunch of hillbilly fucks, the last people you want running around with boomsticks.
I consider myself a left of center, college educated East coast Liberal living in a large city.
Obama: Yes we can!
Prop 8?: Booo, you haters
Iraq: Let's get outta there...
NRA: Never joined 'em, and never will
...and I own several guns. (including a Beretta shotty, just like Biden)
My friends with whom I shoot are mostly liberal Dems like myself. (Luger Liberals if you'd like)
The fact is, the Dems are out of touch with the rank and file on this issue. Liberals and supporters of the constitution should be ardent 2nd Amendment supporters--as were our fore fathers such as Eugene Debs. In the recent supreme court decision ALL NINE justices said it was a protected individual right (they differed on how far that right extended)
Why do I own guns? Nunya bizness. It's my right. Why do you want freedom of speech?
I also purchased a new gun after the election. Why? Because while I don't think Obama is going to start taking guns, of course, I could see Congress making the purchase more difficult--so I figured I might as well do it now.
Finally, people who like guns are not wing nuts,neanderthals, or red necks. Calling them such really just displays your own ignorance.
Don't whine about Bush violations of the 1st, 3rd, and 4th Amendments and then oppose the 2nd.
I don't feel the necessity to own one either. Does that make me naive or in danger of becoming that way? When's the last time Americans had to defend themselves on the North American continent based on an invading force (that wasn't headed up by, um, North Americans)? The Revolutionary War sure was a long time ago, maybe things do change.. Hmm..
The Dems aren't calling for wholesale gun regulation. As has been pointed out elsewhere, it's pretty much a non-issue for Obama. So I'm not sure which politicians - at least on the national level - you think are "out of touch."
You say you can "see Congress making the [gun] purchase more difficult." On what are you basing that prediction? What candidates or incumbents are proposing more gun regulation?
You mention the other Amendments in the Bill of Rights and our "whining" about them (can't say I remember Bush having troops quartered in my house in violation of the Third, but you may have a different experience). I note that, like right protected in the Second Amendment, none of them are absolute either - classic example being that, First Amendment notwithstanding, you can't falsely yell "fire" in a crowded theater.
Rusty,
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Personally, the reason I defend the 2nd Amendment so vigorously is because I hold my other rights so dear.
As far as the Dems and wholesale gun regulation goes, I sort of agree. The problem, however, is a pattern of incremental, meaningless chipping away at the right. Most of the laws passed do not address any specific dangers (like the yelling fire example) but only serve the purpose of making it harder for me to exercise my right.
Oh, just like its illegal to yell fire in theater, it is illegal for someone to shoot a gun up in the air in the middle of a city. That is right and the way it should be. However, don't tell me that I can't have freedom of speech because there is a "chance" that I "may" yell fire.
Anyone know where you could find a statistic on how many crimes are prevented by guns (e.g. a burglar enters a house, owner shoots burglar). All I seem to read about are the 3 year olds who accidentally kill themselves or a sibling. Just wondering.
Actually, childrens death and guns is an interesting point. One of the reasons that I switched from being a pro-gun control person to a gun-loving liberal is because I discovered the gun control lobby plays fast and furious with the stats.
Just last June, NPR and other outlets breathlessly reported SPIKE IN CHILDREN GUN DEATHS. Saying the number was about 3,000. The report even had a picture of a 10 year old with a gun on the cover. If you dig into the stats, however, you find that
"Children" includes people up to the age of 19. You could be a married Iraq vet and be considered part of this study.
Of the 3000, the number of children under 15 killed? about 400
The number under 10? about 130
Any death of a child is tragic, but come on. About 10,000 kids choke at the dinner table each year and twice as many drown in swimming pools.
Anyway, as soon as I started to question the stats and language, educated myself about guns, and affirmed my commitment to the Bill of Rights, I became a Luger Liberal.
But a lot of homes are robbed in order to steal the firearms in the house.
I don't know how my former neighbor got his illegal gun and neither does the State Police that arrested him.
A fool and his/her money are soon parted. I hope Congress brings back the assault weapons ban. You don't need an AK-47 to hunt deer unless they're shooting back.
I would like to see that. Body armor and artillery for the antlered half of the sport. A true sportsman would want an even contest, wouldn't he?
Bow hunting would be much better, and doesn't leave lead fragments in the meat.
never had anything to do with AK-47s. All automatic weapons have been special permit only for about 75 years.
The NRA would not exist as it does today without perpetuating constant fear of gun-hating liberals hell bent on destroying all guns.
It keeps the membership up and the cash flowing.
I personally own three guns for home protection and I don't fear them ever being taken away from me. The gun and hunting/sporting industry is too large.
The NRA, and many of their supporters, stink.
Guns are for people who don't know how to Fight.
You sound like a guy who resolves problems with violence. You probably shouldn't own a gun until you get your head screwed on. A gun is just a tool, like a chainsaw, or a screw driver(maybe avoid those too). Dead is dead. Do soldiers not know how to fight? Because guns are definitely for them.
...And, nobody is going to take away America's guns, you might as well try to de-flea a herd of cats with tweezers blindfolded. Not a feasable undertaking at all.
When I was much younger, boys would fist fight, one would get an ass whooping, and they'd shake hands afterwards. Toward my pre-teen and teenage years, you heard more about people shooting and getting shot when a fight would kick off. So yeah, sometimes I feel that guns are for cowards.
I am very much a liberal, but I am pro-gun and if I lived in the US, I'd have one if I didn't have a small child.
"You sound like a guy who resolves problems with violence. You probably shouldn't own a gun until you get your head screwed on..."
Atomic, I think you missed me. I don't like violence. And I do not and will not EVER own a gun. I was saying that some people are absolute cowards without firearms. Guns bring more problems than solutions.
"When I was much younger, boys would fist fight, one would get an ass whooping, and they'd shake hands afterwards. Toward my pre-teen and teenage years, you heard more about people shooting and getting shot when a fight would kick off. So yeah, sometimes I feel that guns are for cowards."
me_over_here, you hit the nail right on the head! Nobody fistfights anymore. They either bring weapons or lots and lots of friends. No more one on one. Two people can have a beef, yet there's 20 people involved? WHAT?!?
I miss the 80's.
Sorry about assuming your neck is threaded.
But I'm still not going to use kung-fu on a deer, brave as I am, I'm not that bad-ass.
I just don't associate civilian gun ownership with argument resolution, only self defense as a last measure. Kids these days. sheesh. And where did they get the guns?
I also got mugged 4 years ago by three gang members, I was rehearsing in North Hollyweird, carrying a ton of expensive gear. It was our last rehearsal at that space, and the only time I didn't bring protection. These instruments cost more than my car and are uninsured. Plus I needed them to make a Living. I came out on top in the fight, but I needed two root canals(on the same tooth!) and a cat scan to be safe. $$$$
I'm not 100 percent sure I wish that I was carrying that night, but I could have easily been killed. They were not out for sport, and they did't care about my wellbeing. We didn't shake hands after either. lol
Anyway, sounds like you had wild fun in the 80's! I just sat around listening to bad music, putting wings in my hair and hitting on my sister's friends.
Now that's a great apology. :)
I find it hard to believe that people are
buying firearms in large numbers.
In view of massive lay-offs and the credit
and housing problems, people are spending
what exactly to get these guns? They're
using up their credit and getting further
in debt, perhaps?
When you're in a hole, stop digging!
"I think there are going to be outbreaks from blacks," she added. "From where I'm from, this is going to give them the right to be more aggressive."
Not the blacks!!!
They're empowered, get yer guns!!!
And how does someone else getting an abortion, or gay marriage make you wanna buy a gun???
Obama was right. These people really do cling to guns & religion.
And they DO take pride in being ignorant!!!
The less you know, the easier it is to be certain.
And being certain is better than being right...
I was suggesting a thread on this subject since the day after the election. On TV, and in the Dallas Morning Nudes, they were talking about these increased gun sales. On the surface, the buyers sounded reasonable; they always wanted a gun like this--like an AK-47--they're hunters etc., and were afraid this was their last chance before stricter gun laws might be reenacted. Some were hoping new restrictive laws would be enacted, so that their purchases would increase in value and serve as investments.
I'm sure some are just plain nutzoid, but not necessarily all.
isn't a very effective hunting weapon. These people simply want one.
Guns hardly depreciate at all, especially if they aren't fired much. Consider that an AK-47 can be purchased now for what? under $1000? That same gun if the Obama administration does get a ban passed will be worth five times that *easily*. What other investment can you make where (A) you won't lose money on it and (B) it *may* appreciate 500% or more in the next few years? Worst case scenario you break even.
Mob mentality and utter paranoia.
Strange, it seems the tables have turned. All of us have lived in a state of fear and dread for 8 long years. It seems a bit surreal.
There was a poll on Yahoo Canada and 69% said they favoured banning handguns. We don't like or want guns. In many places we still leave our doors unlocked, and usually do if we are at home. We do lock them at night.
I've never seen or touched a hand gun in my life.
I feel sorry for you. If you are ever in the states I'd love to take you to a range to show you that they are nothing to be afraid of
As I wrote earlier, I now live in a country with no guns (except for hunters), and I didn't realize how afraid I was in the States until I moved here.
In the States, I had teens shoot at me for fun. I had gun-wielding nutters take over the courthouse in my hometown and shoot one of my friend's dads. My wife and I were nearly caught in the middle of a gang shootout. There were massive shootouts in places I frequented. I had multiple people shot dead in my neighborhood.
You don't realize how messed up it is being surrounded by guns all the time, because you just learn to accept it as your way of life. Which is terribly sad.
Login or Register to post comments.