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One of the main takeaways from Rand Paul's disturbing musings on civil rights -- as well as his sturdy defense of the indefensible that is British Petroleum -- clearly was, as John put it, that he's a typical out-of-touch country-club conservative Republican -- not to mention that he likewise manages to carry on his dad's tradition of right-wing extremism.

But these also are revealing moments about the limitations of libertarianism as a political philosophy -- because it clearly demonstrates how libertarian "principle" all too often, and all too consistently, essentially gives unbridled permission to behavior and actions that are toxic to our communities and their well-being, and to our democratic institutions as a nation. Which means that libertarianism all too often is often merely used as a pseudo-principled front for the worst impulses in American society, all under the pretense of "freedom".

Well, that very limitation is also readily self-evident when it comes to Paul's position on a subject that directly affects the Kentuckians he wants to represent in the United States Senate: mountaintop-removal coal mining. This issue, perhaps more than any other, reveals Rand Paul, and all the libertarians like him, to be nothing more than the corporate tools they really are.

Here's Rand Paul in an interview from October 5, 2009, via Jeff Biggers:

PAUL: I think people out here would find that I would be a great friend to coal. Not 'cause I come to Eastern Kentucky to pander to coal, but because I believe business should be left alone from government. I think the permit process needs to be made easier from the federal level and the state level. I think we shouldn't have special taxes on their profit. I think we should have lower corporate taxes. Those who create jobs -- I would much more rather lower taxes on the coal industry so they can hire a new hundred new workers than I would say, let's tax the coal industry, send it to Washington, so that we can get a hundred new people digging a ditch that may or may not need to be dug. So yeah, I'm greatly in favor of that. I think coal's a big part of our future because we have a lot of it, still, in the United States, it's fairly readily accessible, and it's where we get most of our electricity. Coal now competes -- you may not know this, a lot of people out here know this -- but about half of our electrical needs come from coal. And it's cheaper than oil and gas, actually, for your electricity.

Q: What about mountaintop removal?

PAUL: I think whoever owns the property can do with the property as they wish, and if the coal company buys it from a private property owner and they want to do it, fine. The other thing I think is that I think coal gets a bad name, because I think a lot of the land apparently is quite desirable once it's been flattened out. As I came over here from Harlan, you've got quite a few hills. I don’t think anybody's going to be missing a hill or two here and there.

And some people like having the flat land. Some of it apparently has become quite valuable when it's become flattened. And I think they do a good job at reclaiming the land, and you know, adding back in topsoil, bringing in help. So the bottom line is, it's not just me pandering to coal. It's me believing in private property.

If they bought the property, they own the property, they can do with that property, as long as they don't pollute someone else's property. And I don't think they want to. If they dump something in the river that goes to the next property, your local judges here will stop them. But I don't think they're doing that. I think what they're doing is what they can do with property they own, and doesn't appear to me to be something the federal government should be getting involved with.

It's harder to get any more afactual and ignorant than that, when it comes to the realities. Indeed, either Paul has just swallowed coal-company lies and propaganda whole, or he's just flatly lying himself.

The facts:

With 95% accuracy, analysis shows that nearly 1.2 million acres (10% of Central Appalachia) have been surface-mined for coal. It also revealed that more than 500 mountains have been severely impacted or destroyed by mountaintop removal coal mining. The study was completed in 2009 by Appalachian Voices based on 2008 aerial and mining permit data.

Over 89 percent of the sites identified in the survey are not being reclaimed. Heckuva job, Paulie!

Wanna see those now-missing "hill or two here or there"? Here's a map of all the hilltop mining operations in the Appalachians. The little green and yellow tabs mark the "reclaimed" sites, while the red ones are for unreclaimed ones:

ReclamationSites_575f0.JPG

And here's what a typical mountaintop-removal site looks like without "reclamation" -- this is the Hobet mine in West Virginia, seen from space:

HobetMine_d63ee.JPG

Go here for a before-and-after look at the Hobet mine, just so you can get some perspective of the enormity of this purposeful manmade eco-disaster.

Now multiply that by five hundred, and you'll have a sense of the enormity of what has befallen people living in the Appalachians.

The NRDC's Rob Perks has more:

Of the 500 mountaintop removal sites we examined, we excluded 90 from our survey due to active, ongoing mining activity. That left 410 supposedly reclaimed mine sites, for which we found that:

* 366 (89.3%) had no form of verifiable post-mining economic reclamation excluding forestry and pasture
* 26 (6.3% of total) yield some form of verifiable post-mining economic development
* Only about 4% of mountains in Kentucky and West Virginia, where the vast majority of this mining is occurring, had any post-mining economic activity.
* Virginia had the highest proportion of economic activity on its reclaimed mountaintop removal sites at 20%.
* Tennessee, which has relatively little mountaintop removal compared to the other three states, had no economic activity on the 6 sites examined in that state.
* Overall, economic activity occurs on just 6% to 11% of all reclaimed mountaintop removal sites surveyed as part of this analysis.

The so-called beneficial development projects include:

* industrial parks (4)
* oil and gas fields (3)
* golf courses (3)
* airports (2)
* municipal parks (2)
* hospital (1)
* ATV training center (1)
* county fairground (1)

In addition, commercial agriculture or farming was identified on nine sites, sometimes in conjunction with other land uses such as residential development. The post-mining land use status of all but 18 mountain locations was identified with a high level of confidence. These locations were identified as having “possible” post-mining economic land uses. This means that some evidence of potential economic reclamation exists on these sites, such as mowed fields or improved structures, but specific land use was not clear. In some cases, it was unclear whether structures were abandoned or directly connected to former or existing mining activity on site or nearby.

What is clear is that mountaintop removal has yielded little economic development on reclaimed mine lands in Appalachia despite the abundance of landscapes with flattened topography available for industrial, commercial, or residential post-mining economic activity.

What was particularly risible was Paul's contention that if these operations polluted their neighbors, why, local judges would surely hold the polluters liable for the damages to their neighbors. Evidently, Paul knows nothing about the history of broad form deeds, which were the legal instrument used by the coal companies to obtain rights to the lands they then leveled without regard to their neighbors:

When coal companies bargained with landowners to buy mineral rights, they commonly negotiated favorable terms for themselves and did not adequately explain the terms to the largely uneducated landowners, who often did not understand the contracts. The companies paid very little for the coal, despite the fact that they reserved the right to use the land surface for coal development.

Most of the mineral rights deeds were made in the late nineteenth century and early twentieth century, when underground mining was common and surface mining was rare. Land owners who signed these deeds never expected that their homesteads would be turned into strip mines. Yet up until the mid-1980’s, courts in Appalachia consistently interpreted broad form deeds to permit surface mining operations even though the grantor had retained the surface rights to the land above the coal seam. Broad form deeds included language that waived mining companies’ liability for surface impacts that were “convenient or necessary” to the mining operation. Based on the turn-of-the-century mining technologies in use during that time period, this language meant that the mining company, which owned only the subsurface mineral rights, could build roads, buildings, coal waste piles, and other structures, as well as harvest timber, on the surface land to facilitate an underground mining operation.

Moreover, they could completely trash neighboring streams without regard to consequence. This is why, as Ashley Judd put it the other day, "Children in eastern Kentucky draw creeks black. They don’t know they're supposed to run clear."

John McQuaid explains that mountaintop removal has already destroyed 1,500 miles of streams in the Appalachians:

The spread of mountaintop removal through central Appalachia in the past 15 years has given scientists the opportunity to study environmental destruction on a previously unthinkable scale: The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) estimates that by 2013 a forested area the size of Delaware will have been destroyed and that more than 1,200 miles of streams have already been severely damaged. As that footprint has grown, so has the evidence, outlined in peer-reviewed scientific papers and ongoing investigations, showing that the damage is far more extensive than previously understood.

Moreover, the health impacts, particularly on children, of this form of mining are both pernicious and widespread -- and have been fully documented.

You see, this is how the real world works: wealthy interests manipulate policy at the state and federal level, and likewise manipulate the law and the courts in their favor, all while the interests of ordinary people are bulldozed. And it's all done under the supposed "principles" of libertarianism -- which really are just convenient way for corporate interests to run amok without regard to the consequences for any of their fellow citizens.

One has to suspect that Rand Paul actually is perfectly aware of this -- and just doesn't care. He has his precious "principles" to run on. He calls them "libertarian". We call him a corporate tool.

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61 Comments
Different Anonymous's picture
.

as long as they don't pollute someone else's property. And I don't think they want to. If they dump something in the river that goes to the next property, your local judges here will stop them.

Damn activist judges.

I wonder how Rand would feel if neighbors of the Paul clan decided to dig out their entire property to a depth of 70 feet, right to the property line? Then just left it, or tossed in some "top soil" and called it good.

Hey Rand, go Cheney yourself, and take your dim-witted libertarianism with you. Clod.

MountainMan23's picture

Rand calls himself a "great friend of coal" then mentions Harlan County.

Anyone who knows anything about the history of Harlan County KNOWS that any "great friend of coal" is no friend of Harlan County.

Fool!


When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?

Not soon enough!

and calls himself a "great friend of coal"

And I'm sure that coal speaks very highly of him.

I'm close pals with dust. I even live with it.


Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.

Still, coal is not clean. Even coal's best friend Lumpy will tell you that. Even when you call hium Wallace.


“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder

sixandseveneights's picture

Earth be damned.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Sat, 06/12/2010 - 14:40 — Liberal AND Proud

and calls himself a "great friend of coal"
_________________________________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZQM3YQnGkk


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

agelbert's picture

Someone should buy land right next this Rand dork and build a 75 feet tall wind generater shaped like a giant penis with two ball shaped buildings at the base. The apex of the tower should have a pump that's connected to a milk tank. The pump would squirt milk 20 feet up three times a day along with a loud horn sound.
Let's see how long his vaunted respect for other people to do whatever the fuck they want on their land lasts.
Hypocrite!

nikolai's picture

Bravo! And build it upwind from the dork!

Peter G's picture

No snark is intended. I'd really like to know your thoughts on this subject. Do you think coal mining per se, should be banned? This is a defensible position but has severe economic costs associated with it. If not, how do you reconcile the enormous human costs associated with underground mining? There is no way to make underground mining completely safe because of factors beyond human control. No surface mine ever lost ten or twenty or thirty miners at a stroke. Would stringent and mandatory site remediation rules do anything to sufficiently mitigate the ecological damage to make surface mining feasible in your mind? I have considerable respect for your opinion and would really appreciate a reply.


Hasa Diga Eebowai

project's picture

I know for a fact because I worked there. On a strip job in martin county kentucky an Addington brothers mine job #6. I don't remember if this was before they sold out to Ashland oil or after. But they were setting up a shot. The explosives and the prell were in the hole and they were wiring it up when lightning struck and set it off. I don't remember how many people were on it at the time. But I do remember we found one of them alive. A big rock had landed on each side of him and another one landed on top of those two rocks and kept him from being crushed. It was a very bad day.
But there are not usually as many people involved in strip mining accidents. But it is still plenty dangerous.
I think we need to do away with all fossil fuels. I know it won't happen tomorrow but if we put forth the effort we can find different ways to handle our energy needs.

Peter G's picture

There are actual statistics you know on how many workers have died in coal mines of various sorts and I am not in the least mistaken. I too have visited coal mines of both types. If there were cases of large multiple fatalities in an open pit mine it would have the frequency of a lightning strike. It would be that rare. You will find the statistical breakdown on all mine fatalities here: http://www.msha.gov/
The health hazards of working underground in coal mines are not limited to death. Show me a case of blacklung developed by someone working in an open pit mine. Coal dust isn't nearly the problem it is in underground mines for the simple reason that it rains in surface mines and limestone dust is easily applied. Controlling those factors in an underground mine is much more difficult. Nor do workers in open pit mines get killed when pockets of natural gas are encountered.


Hasa Diga Eebowai

Bob Kincaid's picture

You proceed from a position that is indefensible, to-wit: that mountaintop removal is inherently less dangerous. This position is disastrously flawed. Clear science shows that mountaintop removal externalizes the health and safety risks of coal extraction onto the communities near it. As Michael Hendryx has proven, the nearer one lives to an MTR site, the more likely one is to contract a devastating illness. As such, the internailzed risks of underground coal mining are merely projected externally onto the surrounding population. Moreover, while thirty people at a time don't die on MTR sites, they do die, and with equal frquency, statistically over time, to underground mines.

There is no such thing as "remediation" for a destroyed mountain, a buried stream, eliminated wildlife populations, erased communities or poisoned children.

Peter G's picture

Show me the stats. I like clear science as rare as it is.


Hasa Diga Eebowai

Bob Kincaid's picture

You've been presented with uncontrovertible data. Yet still you complain. I question your sincerity.

Peter G's picture

seems to be missing. I question everything.


Hasa Diga Eebowai

agelbert's picture

I hope you question your sanity as well. Look up biosphere and "food chain". Your inability to see beyond mining accident statistics as the decision point for or against this or that type of mining is telling of your narrow logic structure.

We ALL live downstream, pal.

Bob Kincaid's picture

because you didn't bother to look for it. Go read Dr. Hendryx's study. Plenty of peer-reviewed data there.

Terrible's picture

even if you dragged him kicking and screaming into coal country to see the truth with his own eyes. He'd still just repeat whatever FOX or Rush told him.

Peter, I suggest you go watch Ashley Judd's address to the Press Club (http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/293979-1). She spells out pretty clearly just how a Mountain Top is removed. "Remediation" is a term that rates right up there with "clean coal." Neither of them is possible.

Anais's picture

to Rand Paul, whom I never heard of before this primary. Ashley Judd grew up in Kentucky (neither she nor Paul were born there). I think her opinion adamantly opposed to mountaintop removal counts for more than carpet bagger Rand Paul.

Peter G's picture

Very moving but addresses none of the questions I am asking.


Hasa Diga Eebowai

PSzymeczek's picture

I think Rand needs to be sat down and shown Burning the Future. Make him see the real cost of mountaintop removal.

glogrrl's picture

of fingers and toes from Mr. Paul.....after all, he does have 10 of each....how could he miss any?


“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”

project's picture

That nothing a republican could do or say would suprise me. Then one of them says or does something so stupid that I am surprised again.
republicans have to be the most stupid fucking creature to ever inhabit this planet!

limitations of libertarianism as a political philosophy

There, fixed it for ya.


Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.

If they dump something in the river that goes to the next property, your local judges here will stop them. But I don't think they're doing that.

Yes, they are polluting rivers and flooding towns and killing people when retaining walls break. Thanks for not thinking, Rand.

No Rand, your wrong. People will miss “a hill or two, here or there”. It’s imbeciles like you that won’t be missed.

When attempting to demonstrate the stupidity of Rand Paul it is not necessary.


“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder

Peter G's picture

If you wade deep enough into shit you may discover too late you need taller boots.


Hasa Diga Eebowai

Biff Limbaugh's picture

operation.

fuddled's picture

certainly colors your world view. For a fiscal conservative, he seems devout in the belief of sloth.

sixandseveneights's picture

It can take millions of years to form a mountain and man can obliterate it in a handful of years. This teabaggin buffoon is a short sighted idiot clown.

Jifster's picture

Coal mining isn't the main issue here; libertarian promotion of dishonest and rapacious business dealings and operation is. A secondary question then becomes: Can coal mining and use be profitable if done honestly and with proper regard for human and environmental cost? I'd like to think so, but I have no idea, since it's never been tried.

Peter G's picture

Rand is an idiot. It is not possible to engage in any mining activity that does not have massive local impact on the ecology regardless of site remediation. I don't dispute it. The questions I ask relate to whether or not it should be done at all and what risks both human and environmental we are willing to accept. If we aren't willing to accept any risks that's fine by me. I'm no fan of coal as a fuel. What we'd do to secure an alternative for metallurgical purposes though I am anxious to find out. I'm also interested in what we'd do to replace coal as a major source of electricity. It's all very well to say everything is bad but what's good?


Hasa Diga Eebowai

Bob Kincaid's picture

(1) Mountaintop Removal coal is NOT metallurgical coal. The vast majority of metallurgical coal is underground-mined. As the son, grandson and great-grandson of coal miners, I know the difference. Your assertion that ending MTR would eliminate metallurgical coal is patently false.

(2) Coal accounts for roughly 45% of our national electicity baseload. Of that 42%, MTR coal comprises less than 5%. We could eliminate MTR today and the lights wouldn't even dim. Secondarily, you set up a false premise. To say we must get away from coal is not to assert we must end its overall use for electricity tomorrow. It is actually a recognition that coal is finite where wind and solar are infinite (barring the fact that the sun WILL burn out in a few billion years).

Burning coal for electricity is simply dumb, especially in light of the fact that the American Lung Association has proven that burning coal for electricity kills 24,000 innocent Americans every year.

It's also more than a little pitiful to see people asserting that we, as a nation, are simply too ignorant to be able to solve the problem of getting away from coal. We can, and we will, if we manifest the national will so to do.

ikalbertus's picture

That's libertarianism. "Your local judges will just stop them." Of course they will, and the tooth fairy will make sure they will. Like it's just a dispute between two people with different agendas, except that one "person" is a very large company and the other person is usually a subsistence working local with little education.

"It's your land." No it's not. We are only short term tenants on God's green earth, and don't have the right to permanently mar, pollute, or destroy a little piece of that earth that a piece of paper says one owns. To do so is a crime against the generations that follow. Any one who owns a piece of land has a responsibility to be a good steward of the land, to improve it not destroy it. Libertarianism takes a soul-dead blindered view of land ownership that is shared only by the most craven greedy spiritually dead.

Bullshit, this guy is your standard big business republican masquerading as a libertarian.

luis stoole's picture

the private sector?

fixing problems caused by others, problems that never should have been allowed to germinate to begin with, sure can be lucrative when you have a fixed customer base.

i can't believe these companies can not be held liable for poisoning the foothill drinking water with their gunk, even if the old laws allow them to do whatever they want.

This guy is running for jackass of the decade apparently . Another silver spoon fed out of touch rich boy fascist is what he is .


Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .

All C&L needs to do is endorse him. Dave, you should come out and give him your full endorsement.

Why doesn't this stupid fuck just change his name to Rand Palin? Same simple-minded, pro-corporate, GOP bullshit. Yeah, Rand, let's just let private corporations do whatever they want; After all, it's working out so friggin' well in the Gulf of Mexico, isn't it? As for mountaintop removal, maybe this idiot should have a sitdown with real geologists (i.e. not oil company shills) and environmentalists to discuss the long term effects of drastically altering the landscape. You know, I'm so tired of watching our survival, and the survival of all species being threatened by illiterate knuckledraggers who believe that digging a toxic substance out of the ground and burning it is still a viable energy source in the 21st century.Our collective survival trumps your need for a paycheck. Sorry, but that's how it is in the real world.


If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.

George Carlin

I don't understand those who defend big coal and oil as necessary. Couldn't renewable resourses be "big business" also? With all the billions wasted to clean-up the mess (not to mention the wars)of oil and coal we could have had many new clean or at least cleaner industry start ups.

Medical Diagnosis by Video's picture

What a ridiculous and profoundly ignorant man Paul is. An embarrassment to the human race.

Chopvac's picture

"I don’t think anyone’s going to be missing a hill or two here and there."
- Rand Paul

"The UN Building could lose ten floors and not make a difference."
- John Bolton

John Bolton advocates political terrorism. Rand Paul advocates environmental terrorism.

Terrible's picture

how terrorists do that isn't it?

Roket's picture

At your service. Well, at least in their world.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Has anyone even bothered to determine what effect mountain top removal has on mud slides, and to any town near the base?

And if they get flooded with mud, of course to this idiot, it wouldn't be the governments job to help them get a restart.

And if there's any threat of this at all it isn't the governments jobs to stop these mining corporations...


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

Did anyone else see that segment on "60 Minutes" awhile back about the coal slag containment (and I use the term loosely) in Tennessee? It collapsed and let sixty years worth of that shit into a river. Wrecked God only knows how much of the river and a whole lot of homes. These idiots don't know what they are doing anymore than BP does.

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

Diabolus est Deus Inversus

Bob Kincaid's picture
Yes

The Kingston Coal Ash Disaster is probably the single most under-reported story of the last two years.

It released more than four BILLION gallons of toxic waste into the Tennessee River watershed. In terms of toxicity, it's about a thousand times worse than what we've experienced thusfar with the BP disaster. That ash contained concentrated hyper-toxic levels of mercury, selenium, cadmium, barium and arsenic, among others.

And what did we do with it? Why we scooped it up and shipped it to a landfill in one of the poorest counties in Alabama, Perry County.

Seriously's picture

Greg Stillson, come on down.

Last year I wrote in another community about MTR on the hills above my house. Since the economic downturn, Fall of 08, early 09- no action up there but no “reclamation either. Last two weeks, rain, so the ground is saturated. Today, heavy rain and probably an inch or so in an hour. The hollow below the MTR washed completely out. Houses up there and fortunately no known deaths, but they say a wall of water came out of there coming through the doors and windows. Large logs, etc…..

*first* time its happened there. News of other places. Church washed into the road up the road, other hollows washed out. etc...

So Rand Paul can go straight to hell. As usual, a "conservative/libertarian" insulated from the results of their bone headed, pie in the sky, ivory tower theories.

Ridge

tequilamockingbird's picture

Bad news, guys. Coal is so cheap and so plentiful, it's going to be a huge factor in U.S. energy production for -- well, more decades than I care to think about.

I think we should all be prepared to live with coal with three important regulations. #1: No mountaintop removal. Such an attack on nature is just too destructive. #2: Strong union and government regulation and inspection of underground mines. Laws with teeth in them, including jail sentences for pirates like Blankenship. #3: Again, strong -- and strictly enforced -- regulations on "conventional" strip mining, with pay-as-you-go requirements that sufficient funds be accumulated during the life of the project to pay for complete reclamation during and after the mining process.

The production and use of coal destroys the environment. But since we're stuck with it, let's insist that minimal harm be done.

And don't vote for Rand.

nikolai's picture

especially inre to #1. But are people really so blind as to not see any problems with destroying mountaintops? Further, this wouldn't be happening if KY and it's inhabitants weren't so poor, undereducated and republican. There's a reason they call it KY.

Rand Paul - the male answer to Sarah Palin, and just as ignorant.

FreeDUMB's picture

Visible from SPACE.

Celsius's picture

.

nikolai's picture

as Chris Wallace is to "news."

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