A tale of two prayers: Warren and Lowery
Since much was made of these two invocations beforehand, I thought it would be useful to take a look at Rev. Rick Warren's and Rev. Joseph Lowery's respective prayers at today's inauguration ceremonies for President Obama.
First there's Warren's invocation, which you can find the transcript to here.
Warren's prayer, as these things go, was frankly pretty bland, but fine for this context. The best part:
Help us, oh God, to remember that we are Americans, united not by race, or religion, or blood, but to our commitment to freedom, and justice for all.
When we focus on ourselves, when we fight each other, when we forget you, forgive us. When we presume that our greatness and our prosperity is ours alone, forgive us. When we fail to treat our fellow human beings and all the earth with the respect that they deserve, forgive us.
Rev. Lowery's benediction, on the other hand, was surprisingly fiery, especially from the lips of an 87-year-old. Its wrapup was spine-tingling:
Help us then, now, Lord, to work for that day when nation shall not lift up sword against nation, when tanks will be beaten into tractors, when every man and every woman shall sit under his or her own vine and fig tree, and none shall be afraid; when justice will roll down like waters and righteousness as a mighty stream.
Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get back, when brown can stick around -- (laughter) -- when yellow will be mellow -- (laughter) -- when the red man can get ahead, man -- (laughter) -- and when white will embrace what is right.
Let all those who do justice and love mercy say amen.
Of course, the righty whiteys are already uptighty about this part of the prayer. (I'm betting Bill O'Reilly or Glenn Beck do something, since they lead the contingent that sees any discussion of our weaknesses and flaws as being "anti-American.")
What did you think?
tanks beaten into tractors
what a line. a great reading, captivating in its delivery.
Rick Warren couldn't have been more bland, but thats where most tastes lie so...
Taken straight out of the Bible in reference to swords into plowshares or maybe it was the other way around. ;D
being poetic protects against critical examination. It's clear that the use of the poetic is a good disguise for one's real intentions. Honest people use words honestly. Words mean things. They represent ideas that a speaker wishes to convey to a listener. Their design is not to simply produce a feeling (tingle up the leg). The allusion to the "plowshares" prophecy had no connection to the designs or behaviors of civil states in its original construct. This and similar statements from Isaiah together with a multitude of predictions in other Old Test books concern peace and brotherhood in the church of our Lord - that is that there would be no national, ethnic etc., divides in the body. "All flesh" would equally participate in the joys of redemption in "one body". See Acts 2, Eph 3, Dan 2, Is 2 for further study. Jesus brought peace "within" and "among" his own (John 14:27).
The Bible clearly teaches that wars will remain and the oppression of the church will continue. In fact even in the end the church will be a "camp" surrounded by the enemy (Rev 20:9)
I found the bloated toad at the beginning offensive at best.
The Rev. Lowery's at least had a little humor and a lot of heart.
lowery was basically the best part of the event.
however, I did not care for either of these prayers to tell you the truth.
I am a staunch believer in the separation of church and state. Period.
Religion an Sex should be kept inside the Church and the House.
Too bad Warren doesn't practice what he preaches.
ever practice what they preach?
"God forgive us for whatever fuck up we do'
So I am sure he does practice that.
It must be awesome to be a Christian like Warren, having on their side a god that has the most stringent standards of responsibility for people who don't belong to "their" club... yet he is so forgiving to those who fuck up constantly in his name.
Almost describes the whole MO of the right regarding their "personal responsibility" meme...
Check out a classic Rev. Lowery sermon at Coretta Scott King's funeral.
This guy is great!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3j9ltp1qM8&fe...
I remember watching it on CNN when they covered Mrs Scott King's service.
The congregation giving Lowery a standing O at the 'weapons of mass destruction' and 'weapons of misdirection' line, in front of dubya and the missus, is absolutely priceless.
Watching it again made me appreciate it even more. I laughed, and I cried too.
Way to go, Reverend Lowery! Beautiful.
underwhelmed by both of them, it would have been nicer if Rev. Lowery didn't zing whites, I thought we were going to start being inclusive, old habits...
zing whites? did you vote for obama? Do you consider your vote "right"?
because if so, know that obama Lost the white male category, just as Kerry did 4 years ago, by a good margin in fact (the same one that obama won by).
for 'success' in one's endeavors is absurd.
or asking the invisible being to "bless" just your own nation. Talk about ego.
Besides, we all know that the invisible being is too busy deciding who wins High School football games to worry about blessing a nation.
Praise the Lord… and pass the ammunition.
Organized religion is a racket.
War is a racket.
The racketeers run them together and there are suckers galore.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
is mentioning this as it has been all over in this thread an excuse to object to the "racially charged" last part of lowery's speech?
Should that even be a question.
because it is not like you expect the majority of a C&L base to be very theistic or at least in an organized sense in the first place anyway, so what is the point of bringing it up
Their reaction was unbelievable when Lowery was speaking. This group of 40, all white 7th and 8th graders thought this man rocked. They followed every word he had to say and were not offended or taken back at all with the "when white will do what is right" line. When watching Warren, they mere more "meh".
It gives me a bit of hope for our future generations, and I was proud of them.
validate the line.
.
it should read:
"...and justice for all heterosexuals."
and non-Jews and ....(insert KKK hate list here)
Some stuff you can't make up!
Warren obviously has the same special bible that Fred Phelps uses, where the message of Christ Jesus is about peace and justice EXCEPT FOR gays and those they personally do not approve of.
It was a pretty glaring omission.
How many ways can Warren say Jesus? I guess he wanted to make sure that no matter what language you spoke you knew that only christians are welcome to be part of this "blessed" country.
I imagined that list of the names of Jesus going on in different languages, until it went into Esperanto, then disappeared in the black hole of speaking-in-tongues, and emerged out the other side as, "...and Jerry Mathers as the Beaver!"
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
:<[)
Some stuff you can't make up!
You're a good crowd.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
I did my best to listen to Warren but wasn't really paying attention; I can't stand the guy so I guess I was only semi-tuned in.
I loved Lowrey's prayer though.
I like that Lowery dude. He's 87? Impressive. I would start going to church if I could listen to somebody like him. I loved how he used humour and involved the crowd.
In front of a worldwide audience, that takes confidence. And it made everybody feel good.
Well done.
I Expected Rick Warren to Ask for a Donation
I guess nowadays one can't be a "good christian" on a fixed income.
People on fixed incomes are the financial mainstay of televised preachers.
"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman
They sold crappy houses through the Heritage Foundation that never materialized. Total creep-a-zoids.
No! As Americans, we have a constitutionally guaranteed right to forget God and still be treated the same by our government.
No! Don't forgive us, kick our butts and keep kicking until we get it right.
God, if you exist, give us loyal friends like France and Germany who try to keep us from doing stupid things, strengthen our real patriots so they can effectively oppose the government when it fails to work for the people, give our leaders the courage to prosecute crimes committed by government officials, and give our country the self confidence to embrace the International Criminal Court, knowing that it will not be used to persecute us if we do not persecute others.
Now that would be an inaugural prayer!
but you won't hear that kind of prayer from a faux christian like the saddlebacKKK scumbucKKKet.
Some stuff you can't make up!
I think it's time we forget what the wingnuts bitch about. We keep them alive by showing concern for what they say.
It's tempting to do, but having been on the other end of that sort of treatment for the last eight years....No, the Democrats don't have to work with the GOP, but it will only drive them all further to the right. You peel them off slowly, the Repubs who are willing to deal will, and soon you can get the one or two needed to get cloture, avoiding the filibuster. Sooner or laer, other Repubs see the moderates in their own party bringing something back to the district, and they figure that its better to cut their own deals.
That's what Congress is about- cutting deals. You vote for my bill, I'll vote for yours- we'll hash some things out. And the President has the pull to facilitate these deals. The political center will be shifted left. But you don't make deals, the minority obstructs, and you get nothing accomplished.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
I was so heartened to hear Obama include non believers in his speech. Truly amazing. I wish for more separation of church and state...And I really resented Lowery's last line. I am as liberal as they come and I take offense. Just because I'm white doesn't mean I'm wrong. Why is it ok for there to be racist remarks against whites? It was not at all in the spirit of inclusiveness of the day.
my God
did you vote for obama? did you think your vote was "right"?
guess what, Obama lost the white vote. He lost it by a bigger margin than he won the election with.
Every running member of the party that passed the CIVIL RIGHTS ACT has lost the white male vote SINCE.
thanks
you bringing up being an atheist (although i agree that i'm glad he mentioned it in his speech, and it shows a glimpse of what he may truly be as a person and how it may reflect his presidency) helps illustrate that probably most of the others that brought it up as a schtick were just prolly using it as an excuse to take an exception to the speech very much because of its "racial" charging, without mentioning that specific part, as i alluded to earlier
Yes, separation of church and state is mandated and is an excellent concept.
No-one said that the rest of us can't utilize these prayers as goals, meditations, or intentions to guide our daily lives. The changes we make from these may well be answers to prayers, even if attributed to an archetype.
This said, the Rev was fabulous! My yellow friend the Ivy League grad who couldn't get a decently paid job was not kept down by the red, brown, or black. My red buddy the retired Teamster was not underpaid by them either. My black coworker who had to quit second grade because shoes were required--so was tuition to black elementary schools in Alabama, and not white--did not have trouble with being kept back by dark people. It's humbling, terrifying, to look at white skin in the mirror as a force for oppression and not just a canvas for makeup.
Neither McCain nor Obama got my vote, but it is thrilling and chilling to watch history being made after my childhood memories of enforced racial separation. Ironically, Warren's philosophy of living for a purpose is validated precisely by the historical call and response of "You cannot and shall not" and "Yes, we can---and will--and do!"
If I want to pray, then I do so. If either of them say something you don't believe or agree with, I am sure your higher power probably knows that because it is what's in your heart and thoughts that count.
Personally, I would prefer everyone that wishes to pray just bow their heads for a moment of silence to allow everyone to pray or just stand/sit there during that moment of silence. It is the best way to show respect for everyone's beliefs.
I thought Warren's prayer was fairly obnoxious. He was drumming the Jesus beat hard enough, and for an invocation prayer during an event like this, that was bad enough but then he recited the entire Lord's Prayer to boot.
I can't imagine what it felt like to be Jewish, Muslim or atheist/agnostic during that prayer. It certainly wasn't a prayer for America, it was for Rick Warren's version of a Christian Nation.
DRST
Personally, it was a slap in my face. I was upset at obama for choosing him and now I'm know I was right to be upset. This reaching across the aisle thing is pissing me off.
... the best way to defeat our fears is to expose them as impotent shams.
If an 87 year-old Baptist minister can kick ass with his benediction and make Warren look like weak tea, we're on our way.
Some months ago during a local story where a lesbian couple had their rainbow AND American flags defaced repeatedly, and some wingnut evangelical starts preaching hell and damnation.
Right off the bat, he said I had no honor, that I was going to burn in hell ... and when I cited the Lord's Prayer, I swear you could hear the veins in his forehead pop.
"HOW DARE YOU QUOTE SCRIPTURE TO ME!"
Yeah, Ricky and his ilk have a really forgiving base.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206010...
How, may I respectfully ask, can anyone borrow their way out of this, when basically the entire system worldwide is done. Finished. Nada. Kaput. Good bye. Now what?
1 - I would demand a forensic examination of all the books of any bailout seeker or beneficiary.
2 - I would ban bonuses for any management-level types.
3 - I would nationalize the offenders in every country they operate in.
4 - I would seek an internatinal agreement to vanish all the derivatives and ban them internationally.
5 - pray I don't get assassinated.
[add your own solution]
Some stuff you can't make up!
It's too late to assist the banks CoIntel. They are virtually insolvent. England is for all states and purposes, bankrupt if they give billions more to their banks. Everyone else is doing the same. What the hell has happened? SOMEBODY, somewhere has to do something and fast. This is beyond a serious problem. They are throwing money at them, increasing debt that is impossible to repay, and still the banks are basically bankrupt. What does this mean? You and I both know, given the last 3 months, it's obvious the governments the world over refuse to let the banks fail. If they don't, everybody else fails.
I got it covered.
Some stuff you can't make up!
Up to and including today, they are all still talking of once again bailing them all out. This can't go on. Something has to give. Who will do it? There are no signs that anyone will.
politics is that art of taking a problem and using it to your advantage. the advantage gained by solving a problem is always why the opposition party opposes a real solution. see #5, which awaits those who actually try to implement a permanent solution that benefits those outside the circle of global financiers.
Some stuff you can't make up!
if somebody doesn't take a risk to pull the plug on them, #5 is going to happen to the entire world. I know it's a real downer today, but this is without a doubt, the biggest thing to happen today. Overshadowing Obama's historical day. I've seen alot over the years, and this is the first time I seriously fear a complete financial meltdown of which we've never seen before. Seriously, the world is not gonna walk away from this one.
..that I think might do the trick - just gather up all the bank statements and financial reports, get a couple tons of White-Out and have at it. Or in the case of "money" that only exists as numbers in computers - hit Delete. I think that's pretty much that same as #4.
We need to banish the current monetary system, get rid of private central banks, and start over after wiping all the fake debt off the books. It's either that, or we wait for everything to collapse and everyone will get all excited and start doing very bad things.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Marriage Ban Donors Feel Exposed by List
By JESSE McKINLEY
Published: January 18, 2009
SAN FRANCISCO — In many ways it is a typical map, showing states, highways, cities and streets.
But also dotting the online display are thousands of red arrows, marking spots from Bryn Mawr, Pa., to Jamacha, Calif., identifying the addresses of donors who supported Proposition 8, which outlawed same-sex marriage in California.
It is exactly those arrows that concern supporters of the measure, who say they have been regularly harassed since the election — with threatening e-mail messages and sometimes boycotts of their businesses.
Some stuff you can't make up!
It's about time someone learned how to play politics.
Boycott is the American Way.
ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!
I LOVE IT!
Some stuff you can't make up!
was to be used so people can sent their 'Producers' with microphone and camera (a la Jesse Waters) to harass those with whom we disagree? Ain't that right O'Reilly - who has already threatened to pursue the publishing of the map, blaming Google.
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
I thought it was for Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy
Or at least Time Bandits.
Maybe even Time-Lords like Dr. Who.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Since they omitted the following from the pre inaugural show,
http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/gene-...
I would think Gene Robinson's message would be part of this story.
that!
Some stuff you can't make up!
It kind of implies that the white have not embraced what it right.
Many haven't, but there are a whole lot more who have.
http://the-billablog.blogspot.com/
that leaves 55% for mccain and 2% 'other'
that's just the way it is.
Just like the increase in gun sales. that is unabated.
like I said - that's just the way it is.
Some stuff you can't make up!
But that's just the way it is, except Obama did a little better. Oops!
Democrats have not won the white vote since LBJ passed the Civil Rights Act.
Clinton won 39% but i doubt he lost it to bush as much as Obama did to mccain. The main reason the stat is lower is because of Ross Perots (relatively) successful run by 3rd party standards.
Those little ditties are from the 60s/70s that Lowery attached to the end of his prayer. It isn't something HE made up special.
correct. I was there when it started. :<[)
Some stuff you can't make up!
Thanks for the clarification. :)
http://the-billablog.blogspot.com/
more who have?
Just a small example:
Obama lost the white vote.
Every running member of the party that passed the CIVIL RIGHTS ACT has lost the white male vote since.
thanks
So, why's he still reciting it? He classified people based on their race... (not even race - just generic colors) No matter what era it's from, it's not productive. What's yellow be mellow all about anyway? East Asians?
For someone who spends so much of his time trying to abolish racism, he certainly seems to base quite a lot on race.
It's based on an old racist rhyme. He's asking for a time when that rhyme's message is not the norm.
me-oww!
no, though it may be the majority of it, don't try to fool yourself that hes just joking. There is truth in the "joke".
I think his prayer was very serious, ESPECIALLY the last part that has white people's knickers in a twist. Don't put words into my comments that aren't there.
me-oww!
Obama lost the white vote.
Every running member of the party that passed the CIVIL RIGHTS ACT has lost the white male vote since.
thanks
It speaks to the arrogance of the Bush crowd, who will preach God with one side of their mouth and endorse torture with the other.
When white will do what is right - not what is expedient. And it acknowledges that ALL of us have miles to go to get there. Whites don't get a free pass 'cause they sing this Christian Nation bullshit louder than most.
A good preacher is able to call fouls without making it personal, and I think Lowery did that.
more who have?
Just a small example:
Obama lost the white vote.
Every running member of the party that passed the CIVIL RIGHTS ACT has lost the white male vote since.
thanks
fat as falwell and just as bigoted. he wants forgiveness for being as asshat. that figures. just what a bigot wants - a life of bigotry and the 'jesus' password to heaven.
Some stuff you can't make up!
I was prepared to dislike Rev. Warren. In fact, I found him bland and inoffensive. Religion reduced to pat phrases. I thought he would be more creative. The references to Jesus (his Savior) on such an occasion was not inclusive and, if one practiced a non-Christian religion, would be off-putting. Generally a bad job.
Warren is a neonazi vinyl siding saleman who fleeces self-hating oafs. He is so doomed. A sex tape of him and underaged boys is no doubt being discovered at this very moment. . . Lowery should ponder how Obama became president - white people voted for him. A fellow from NC said it best during a TV news interview when Hillary was going on and on about how she gets the white vote and white people just won't vote for a black person or a mocha person or whatever. Interviewed in his car he said something to the effect, ah, hey, lady, I don't think it's appropriate for you to be calling me a racist just because I am a white guy from the south, because it ain't true. Too bad Katherine Kuhlman wasn't still alive. She would have made Cheney leap from his wheelchair and do the lambada.
to overcome the bigotry and the victimhood. I understand Lowery and he still has a valid point. Neither the election nor the death of King ended bigotry. Fux noise proves that daily.
Some stuff you can't make up!
white people voted for him?
why do idiots not educate themselves before running their mouths. Obama lost the white category, by an even bigger margin than he won the presidency (which at the time if you remember people were calling a "landslide")
In fact, white males have not voted for president a democrat SINCE a member of that party passed the Civil Rights act
Get over your fuckin self.
" before running their mouths?"
Why indeed...
I'm white and I voted for Obama. Most everyone in my family, (mostly white) voted for Obama, the majority of my friends that are white, ( and voted republican the last 2 elections) voted for Obama...
I think you need to pull your head outta yer fuckin ass there, Hoss.
For you are truly talkin about that which you do not understand.
you're an idiot.
By your logic black people, or hispanics, or whatever other similar group, voted for bush
WRONG.
Nothing i've said so far has been wrong. Idiot says white people voted for obama. Actually Obama lost the "white" vote, by a decisive margin no less. Hence I set the truth forth.
Then of course idiot (you) comes in and objects to FACTS with his own opinions and pretenses that comes from the same places Joe the Plumbers schtick comes from.
Fact is this is also how a campaign strategizes and looks for votes. They already figured they weren't gonna change the white vote category, in fact they must have prepared for worst. You're living in a dream world (the matrix).
May I politely say: fuck Rick Warren AND Joe Lowery. All the speechifying is a waste of time and money. I think Barry should've taken the SECULAR oath of office that's in the constitution, then rolled up his sleeves and gone to work. We've got a hell of a mess to clean up!
tomorrow is Barack's first day and the media will certainly be on him about the market results from today. It's going to be on like popcorn.
Some stuff you can't make up!
I am also for getting the preaching out of the oath of office. Made me feel like a jew at a christmas mass when I should have felt like a proud american watching one of my own come into power.
schtick.
Rick Warren should read what the Bible says about gluttony...then maybe he would stop living in sin and lose 100 pounds. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a heart attack and dropped dead like Jerry Falwell, who was also obese. I hate to use the word "pig", but if it oinks and slops down it's food, well....
Woody McBreairty
can keep on gluttonizing as far as I'm concerned. do us all a favor.
Some stuff you can't make up!
others. Listen to the President you fat fuck. quit using more resources than you should. That includes food. Jesus, there are people near you not getting enough to eat. Try fasting a day, once a week, arsehole.
me-oww!
First off, the "sin" of gluttony applies to those who eat while those around them starve - MILLIONS of people do that on a daily basis. It's a weird thing - people have to eat to survive. Do you suggest we all starve too, so we can be in solidarity with those who do?
Second, let's knock it off with the fat bashing. There are PLENTY of "normal" sized people eating more than their share of food and taking up more than their share of Earth. Scapegoating fat people is 2nd grade nonsense. Why don't you grow the fuck up?
You have valid points, but the posters above are not ridiculing all fat people. They are ridiculing a pompous ass, who is a hypocrite. And quite obviously by looking at his lack of a neck, he just so happens to be a fat hypocrite. Let them play today. It's a day to not be at each other's throats. Even I am being a good boy :->
I actually have a morbidly obese niece. I am not fat bashing.
Millions aren't running around calling out the alleged sins of others. "Judgment is mine sayeth the Lord," "Judge not lest ye be judged," and "Do unto others..." These are all little quotes from this guy's dogma.
My issue with this gluttonous fuck is that he is one of many who point out the sins of others while committing the repeated sin of gluttony -- so much so, that he is at least medically obese, above 30% bmi. An adult shouldn't have more than one chin and rolls of fat around their belly. And people around him are starving as he eats his 4000 or so calories a day, that meets YOUR standard for gluttony. 2000-2500 cals a day is ample for an adult.
Think before you post. Don't tell me what to do. I'll post what I like. This isn't the first time I've called out Warren and his ilk for being fat fucks. And it won't be the last. If you can't see the difference between a fat person and a gluttonous fat fuck who sits in judgment of others, of the two of us, you're the one who needs to do some maturing.
And in his Inaugural speech today the President called on Americans to cut back when he said:
I assume foodstuffs were included in that bolded thought, and it is incumbent on those privileged enough to stand next to him on the dais today to heed and practice his call, as an example to the rest of us.
me-oww!
I luvs ya Miss Kitty!! I am sitting reading your posts, and imagining you typing it out on a keyboard. Hahahaha.
Cheers, Miss Kitty!
:)
Living in WA State, I am nearly one of you!
me-oww!
He famously gives 90% of his Saddleback salary and book proceeds to a couple of his charities, but they are HIS charities. Both he and his wife receive annual salaries from those charities and they're not token paychecks either.
Rick is really all about the money and fame. I'm not being a good Christian example when I say this but you are right: he is a fat fuck.
according to that book; one of the biggest sins one can commit is to take the name of the lord in vain.
Funny how most preachers conveniently ignore that they are, by definition, taking the name of the lord in vain when they make assumptions/claims about what god wants or should do in their preaching.
I give Warren 2 years before he puts himself in a, shall I say, compromising position of some kind. I don't think he's any different than the trash heap of failed televangelists the last 50 years.
The problem with Fundamentalist Preachers, like Rick Warren, doing public events, be it a wedding, a funeral, a sporting event, or an inauguration, is that they can't help themselves to try to convert the audience. These preachers have no sense of other people's believe systems or the general sense of the occasion. Many times I've witnessed this, completely ignoring the Jews, Hindus, or Muslims in the audience. You can always hear a hint of "If Jesus saved me, then Jesus can save you," cleverly hidden in the text, when everyone in attendance just wants the happy couple, team, or President to enjoy a joyful blessing. Warren is not much different. These Preachers always end their prayer/conversion speech with the Lord's Prayer, as if that makes everything alright. They are clueless that the audience has tuned them out a long time ago. People can't wait for them to finish. It's kind of funny actually.
Rick Warren is an Evangelical, not a Fundamentalist. A true Fundie does not believe in public altar calls, as this is a private, individual thing. Rick's prayer was a very thinly veiled altar call.
Also a Fundie would never, ever use the Lord's Prayer. Scripture states that Yeshua had used this particular prayer only as an example of how to pray - I believe it goes something like "pray in this fashion...". Parroting the example back to the teacher does not help you pass the test.
I'm a Fundie and I thought Warren's prayer was borderline offensive.
I suspect what you mean by altar call, but am not positive. But the Lord's Prayer is part of the Eucharist in Orthodox Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, and of course Roman Catholic, along with the prayers of Agnus Dei, and the Confession, the 10 commandments, the Prayer of Humble Access.
My memory is fuzzy, but I'm drunk. You probably don't approve of that either.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I honestly don't think there is much difference if you have to split hairs like that.
I found Warren offensive in general, and I am deeply disappointed in Obama's choice. Since Warren's shit has now been validated by my tax dollars... so that is a double whamy for my atheist tax-paying ass.
Two different approaches one message. Why make someone wrong on this amazing day. Put the daggers away for one day. Crossing the aisle is a two way street, and with the attitude of making every good deed go punished is how we got here in the first place.
Both men are preaching for gods love, peace and hope for our nation.
It is time for all of the ankle biting to cease and to actually start listing to our leader and get united. To smirk and criticize only pours more gasoline on the fire. It is time to recognize that we are all Americans and the United we stand and divided we will fall.
as long as it's not queer love. That's not his call, according to the teachings laid out in the bible he preaches from, and his presence on the dais was an insult to our non hetero brothers and sisters who wait to exercise the same rights the rest of us have.
me-oww!
How about this couple for doing the invocation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b94_rzB-HI8
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Hannity was on it right away along with Beck. Expect Limbaugh tomorrow
It's bullshit. But really, nothing is bullshittier than that fucker Warren.
me-oww!
that is only because falwell is dead.
Some stuff you can't make up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lIgIk9BTa0
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
and almost always funny.
Some stuff you can't make up!
Another great post!
Tue, 01/20/2009 - 17:24 — CoIntelPro.Pron...
I steal from the best.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Great clip! Classic.
It should be a medicine man up there instead of him. Praying for mother earth to come back alive take this gasoline loving country to task.
Rev. Joseph Lowery was the man of the moment. He brought the audience back to the celebration of the moment, after people had been standing for hours in the cold. Rev. Lowery reminded the audience with an all-inclusive street poem that what this great day was all about. The good Reverend Lowery made sure that the people were included and made them participate with three heartfelt A-mens.
Rev. Joseph Lowery was icing on the cake. Classic.
Warren was embarrassingly pedestrian, it felt like he was trying to reach a fourth grade audience.
...but set these two prayers side by side. They are meant to do two different roles, but one can see that it will be difficult to unite in these times.
I felt a lot more preaching for unity in Lowery's prayer, despite the wingbattery at NB. Lowery preached about the reminder that equality doesn't instantaneously come from electing a black president; there is still a severe difference between race, poverty, and religion, but unity to love thy neighbor will conquer all.
Warren's prayer emphasized God too much for its own good. He preached that taking the Bush road--uniting to fight for justice and freedom--trumps all. He said it himself--we are not united by race, religion, or blood--and to Warren unity won't happen until justice is served, and even then there will still be two Americas.
Warren also points out that "when" we fight, God is to forgive us. Warren is automatically stating the human nature of man is to disagree, to fight others, to stay divided. Even worse, his overemphasis on God already abolishes the nonbelievers from his vision of America, a subset that Obama himself wishes to unite with the rest of America.
I hope that everyone can see that the overall emphasis is in unity in these two speeches, not racism. I just hope some see it more than others to make it a reality for everyone.
If you're brown, stick around.
If you're yellow, you're mellow.
If you're white, you're alright!
That is a childhood saying that many people of African descent in my age bracket may remember. It illustrates how the premise that there was something inherently wrong with people of their own ethnicity was accepted-- and just how much it affected the children's collective self-esteem.
That Lowrey would turn it around, in a playful manner, and give it a totally different meaning was awesome!!
Given that the "doll test" was done just recently and African American children still see the white doll as 'nice' and the Black doll as 'not nice' or 'ugly' is a testament to how far we still have to go. It isn't about being inclusive or exclusive. It is about telling it like it is.
I had the tv turned down. I am sure thats what the crowd must have been chanting when Bush took the stage.
close to that.
Can't wait for the t-shirt!
God drivel. Prayers and preaching have no place in this ceremony for ALL americans. Thumbs down to both.
All of the radio gas bags are calling Lowery's benediction racist. They have no concept of this do they? I'm finding more and more people don't get the concept.
warren was a typical faux-christian with his forgive us bullshit. all words and no deeds. as noted above he wants the right to fuck over those who don't agree with him and then be "forgiven". doesn't this exemplify the last line of Lowery's benediction?- ie. "when white will embrace what's right". he nailed it! i also heard it as double entendre...right= conservatives - who obviously DON'T embrace what is right. i thought Lowery was great and rejuvenated the crowd after the good but boring poetry. racist?...that's quite a stretch unless you're carrying that baggage. personally i think that religion doesn't belong in the public/political realm but these are the times we live in and so if it is to be, i'll take Lowery any day. it was real and those last lines spoke of real issues. a-fucking-men
brobob
I thought Lowery's 'when white will embrace what is right' was off-putting; it was supposed to be funny and entertaining and that is not the time to remind whites - however subtly - of their guilt. It also was inappropriate because after all whites had just embraced Barack Obama - electing him to be the 44th president of the United States. Mr. Niewert's comment irritates me - that we might get uptight - Mr. Niewert is obviously white.
that white people and other races don't carry the "guilt" or prejudice when they voted for Obama. our u.s. history is replete with the injustices done to people of color. i'm white and not guilty in the least- i just recognize the facts of our history. look at the shit that was flung during the campaign and even now - one has to admit that the prejudice is still there. Lowery left out women which still is a hang-up for some. i love the humor of chris rock and other comedians of color george lopez, margaret cho, etc. they can talk about race so that we all can laugh with them without being racially separate. it's all about being human with a cultural bent. humor allows us to see the truth of tragedy with more than just the pain. it allows us to become more human and i feel that is what Lowery was doing. as per my previous post- i think he did that with flair. can it be possible to look at this with a more open view than black/white?
brobob
I'm sorry, but Crooks and Liars and ThinkProgress and plenty of other outlets have shown that they will ASSUME something is racist even if it's not close to being overt (or many times probably not even racist).
This screams of hypocrisy for something to be said so overtly racist, and yet C&L is actually saying it's WRONG for anyone to call it racist.
He said - brown people get kicked out; black people get sent to the back; yellow people need to chill out; red men need a chance; and white people need to start doing what's right. That's racist by the very definition.
The excuses being used, like "It was from the 70's, who cares" are pointless. He said it in 2009 at one of the most public settings imaginable.
The more we classify behaviors and people based on colors, the more separated we become.
And for most of you to just call the people offended "wingnuts" is despicable. People really did get offended at the comment and you're telling them they have no right to be offended by it. You have no right to tell them they can't be.
The hypocrisy/double standard doesn't work!
he was asking for a time when the shit ends; he wasn't invoking the spirit of it. Quite the opposite
me-oww!
How? How does saying - paraphrased - When white people do what's right... How is that merely asking for the shit to end? What shit? Only white shit? I mean, if he's asking for the shit to end, say "HEY, STOP THE SHIT!!"
That way everyone would hear it. Right now, he just alienated a whole lot of white people, and that's not productive.
nevermind. You choose not to get it and I don't have the time.
I already explained it to you. Twice.
me-oww!
You have the time to tell me nevermind, but not to explain to me what's going on? hmm...
I'm not being an ass here... Everything I'm saying is genuine and based in logic. Give me better logic and I'll happily embrace it.
problems with race IMO, work it out with yourself.
Most here do not have a problem with it.
no he wasn't. Did you vote for obama? do you think your vote was right?
guess what. Whites as a group didn't.
And they haven't voted for president a member of the party that passed the Civil Rights act since it was done.
Obama lost the white vote. He lost it by a bigger margin than he won the election with.
Every running member of the party that passed the CIVIL RIGHTS ACT has lost the white male vote SINCE.
thanks
"all whites had embraced obama, electing him"? you're an idiot
Obama lost the white vote. He lost it by a bigger margin than he won the election with.
Every running member of the party that passed the CIVIL RIGHTS ACT has lost the white male vote SINCE.
thanks
Didn't see the guy at the end but I liked his words about peace etc.
the first guy was pretty WEIRD.
Your country differs from ours a lot when it comes to religion and politics.
Here , we look sideways on a politician who is always invoking God.
Its not a crime here NOT to believe in God.
We don't walk around saying " God bless NZ" all the time.
Our politicians only enter churches for funerals in general and nobody cares if they're atheists.
I f someone wants to be sworn in as a politician and read an oath that doesn't mention God then thats just fine.
In fact I think here if someone is a real bible thumper then its a minus not a plus.
It's not a crime here to not believe in god either. Most people do though. Just like in the rest of the world.
We don't walk around saying "God Bless" all the time either.
If someone wants to be sworn in on something other than a religious text, they are more than welcome to. Teddy Roosevelt did.
Most of the time, real bible thumpers here are a minus too...
See, we're not so different
yes..i think about 89% of americans believe in God. Thats high. ( Especially as you have no proof )
Higher than a lot of countries.except maybe some of the Islamic Nations.
I've noticed that most of your politicians, when giving important speeches , usually end them with " God Bless America ".
That just doesn't happen in a lot of countries.Guess you may as well hedge your bets though ... doesn't hurt to ask...ya never know... He might come through.
Yes, politicians do like to use the religious angle here. It off puts many and attracts many others.
I really don't think the US has a noticeably larger amount of people who believe in God than other countries. I think they get seen more in the US (tele-evangelists and rich people who use their money for religious purposes)
i definitely think they do. Have you ever been outside of the country?
[Deleted. Racist, banned-Sitemonitor]
Wow - You, my friend, are racist. and a few other things to boot.
I understand your frustration at the double standard, but you can't take that out on a whole race of people... actually, white people are the ones you're mad at for having the double standard..
You obviously need to open up a little based on that last sentence
doozey....
Ah racists...flaunting their ignorance for all to see...and ridicule.
I do not know what holds African Americans back. I wish it was only one reason but I think it is a combination of reasons. I hope through time, this country stops this awful discrimination, PERIOD. Apparently, discrimination did not keep a African American from becoming a President. LOVE YOU AMERICA< LOVE YOU WORLD>LETS REJOICE!!
How nice for you to live in a world where you don't have to deal with such things.
...just lovely.
There is no God but our God
The humble Christians say.
There is no God but our God.
To Him alone we pray.
What of the others by the score,
Gods just as great and mighty.
Of Allah, Odin, Jove and Thor,
Venus and Aphrodite.
If to the one alone we pray,
And He is just a faker (fakir?),
There surely will be Hell to pay
When we meet our maker.
So, good Christians take my advice.
Don't be so egotistic.
And on occasion in your prayers
Address some other mystic.
Remember there have been a score,
A hundred, thousands, maybe more.
To say there is but one God
Might make the others sore.
Good Christians believe in one God.
Myself, I must confess,
Am not so very different.
I believe in just one less.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Is the difference between someone that has lived thorugh racism and someone that has never experienced the bad that racism brings.
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