Why does Fox insist on calling human beings 'illegals'?
By David Neiwert Monday Sep 28, 2009 5:00pm
Fox News' morning crews -- both Fox and Friends and the regular newsroom -- were going ape about the Moonie Times' report on the pushback by liberal Democrats on including undocumented immigrants in the current health-care reform effort:
Fearful that they're losing ground on immigration and health care, a group of House Democrats is pushing back and arguing that any health care bill should extend to all legal immigrants and allow illegal immigrants some access.
The Democrats, trying to stiffen their party's spines on the contentious issue, say it's unfair to bar illegal immigrants from paying their own way in a government-sponsored exchange. Legal immigrants, they say, regardless of how long they've been in the United States, should be able to get government-subsidized health care if they meet the other eligibility requirements.
"Legal permanent residents should be able to purchase their plans, and they should also be eligible for subsidies if they need it. Undocumented, if they can afford it, should be able to buy their own private plans. It keeps them out of the emergency room," said Rep. Michael M. Honda, California Democrat and chairman of the Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus.
Of course, this really is only common sense, especially from a public-health perspective; do we really want people not getting treated for contagious diseases simply because they can't prove they're here legally?
However, as sensible as it may be, these efforts realistically have little chance of succeeding, given the toxic political environment about immigration and health-care reform that's been floating about us ever since Joe Wilson shouted out, "You lie!"
Nonetheless, this set wingnut gums a-flapping about the horrid prospect of actually using taxpayer dollars for something they're already required by law to pay for anyway.
And the folks at Fox were all over this angle. Notably, they kept referring to these immigrants as "illegals". Illegals, illegals, illegals -- it was running on the chryon and out of their mouths.
There's a reason the National Association of Hispanic Journalists urges their colleagues to avoid dehumanizing terms like "illegals":
The term criminalizes the person rather than the actual act of illegally entering or residing in the United States without federal documents. Terms such as illegal alien or illegal immigrant can often be used pejoratively in common parlance and can pack a powerful emotional wallop for those on the receiving end.
Moreover, as Eric Haas at the Rockridge Institute points out, it's a grossly misleading phrase -- and one that reveals a powerful xenophobia:
But the phrase "illegal immigrant" is misleading. There's a grain of truth, but the emphasis is only selectively applied -- it's misapplied -- we don't call speeders "illegal drivers" or people who jaywalk "illegals." And that selective application to immigrants is harmful.
Most people don't understand that "illegal immigration" is in fact only a civil misdemeanor -- which, as legal infractions go, places it on the same scale as speeding or illegal parking. Instead, we've managed to work it up in our minds that being undocumented in the United States is a big-time crime, and thus the undocumented are criminals.
Thus we get Rep. Steve King saying this in response to the Democrats' common-sense efforts:
"If anybody can, with a straight face, advocate that we should provide health insurance for people who broke into our country, broke our law and for the most part are criminals, I don't know where they ever would draw the line," he said.
I wonder if Steve King has ever exceeded the speed limit while driving on the freeway. Because, applying his own logic, he would himself also be "a criminal."
Moreover, nearly half of the undocumented workers in this country didn't "break into" the country -- they came here on legal visas that then expired, and they simply didn't leave.
Calling them "illegals" and "illegal immigrants" is a noxiously dehumanizing habit -- one that only encourages hatefulness and violence against Latinos. It would always help, as Marisa Trevino at Latina Lista points out, if President Obama himself would stop using it.
Because the logic of "illegals" eventually leads to a mindset like that noted by Albor Ruiz at the New York Daily News, describing the kind of commentary that usually accompanies discussions of immigration:
"Save the taxpayers of this country a great deal of money and kill them [the undocumented immigrants] on the spot, along with those who think [they] deserve anything better," he said as a reaction to "Immigration's self-deportation program is a real government gem," a column that ran in this space on Aug. 6.
Ironically, the writer used the case of an illegal immigrant who committed murder in Texas to justify calling - patriotically, I guess - for a much more horrible crime, an "ethnic cleansing" of sorts against all immigrants and - why stop there? - thousands of people "who think these pieces of (I'll spare the reader the disgusting epithet) deserve anything better." If this guy and others like him had their choice, I and others like me would be well advised to "go back to where we came from." Or else.
That, of course, is classic eliminationism. It underlies the use of "illegals." And that alone is reason for major-network TV anchors to stop using it.
they aren't fetuses?
Just imagine if we kick all these immigrants out, Social security will go bankrupt way sooner. They pay into it without getting nothing back and most liberals know that it's a regressive tax, which means that the lower you earn, the more you pay. why don't we go after the employers? they're the ones reaping all the benefits. Hypocrisy is the new "in"........Fox News..all lies..all the time.
There was a film made maybe four years ago or so about what life would be like for "Americans" if suddenly all the "illegal's" were....poof!...gone.
No nannies, no gardeners, no sous chefs, no one to break their backs and pull up all the vegetables we depend on that are farmed in California and in other states....
Oh, yes. GREAT IDEA!!! Get rid of the damn illegals!!
(Who, I might add, spend their meager incomes paying American slum landlords for sub-standard living conditions, and on every thing else "Americano"...groceries, utilities, DVD rentals, gasoline, rents...you get the idea.)
Sure. They come here and work their backs and asses off for "the man" and send checks back to their families in Mexico and other places...
Well, as a result, those "other places" become more "Americanized" and as a result the standards of living become more "balanced".
Eventually, (and hopefully for the families who would obviously rather live together), those who have run to America to make "American dollars" will be able to go home...
Of course, the "American dollar" by then may be only worth the peso.....(or less!!)
So...
"C'est la vie".
...........as stated by Goebels. Use loaded words as a cue for the LOONIETUNIES to get hysterical and then, we hope, violent!!! Snark
Well because they are illegals,simple statement of fact, now that does not mean they are not human, but they are both economic and political refugees, they cross the border with out the benefit of inspection. In the meantime, people who are waiting their turn to get here legally can't get in. Illegals are not criminals, but they are in violation of civil law.
If you walked across the border to Canada, or to Mexico you would be an Illegal. That means many of them are being exploited for their labor, THAT is a crime.
for "Mexican", just as "Acorn" is becoming a synonym for Black. Fox & Co love to stir up the fear and hatred of the dark skinned folk. Not only is it good for their ratings, the hate-mongering is in sync with the Repug tactic for controlling Poor Folk of Divide & Conquer.
First of all do not try to pull this BS that the illegal's are making enough money to pay for these services they are receiving. Second there has been an is a way for people to come into this country and it is LEGAL. But when they decide not to use this Legal path then they should be processed by our laws>>
I believe that illegal's should be prosecuted and sent back to their country.. The same as I believe Obama and the democrats should prosecute and send Bush and the criminals from his administration to jail if found guilty... This includes any democrats which might have been involved..
This is the trouble with persons when they believe their case is special and should not be prosecuted because of that.
People interring this country illegal know d... well what they are doing when they do it so they should be help accountable for their actions.. I so not see anyone getting special privileges for traffic tickets , drug charges and other criminal offenses..
We just can not afford to let 30 , 40 and 50 million people to come into this country and believe that our economy can survive these actions.
What you are doing is giving the republicans red meat for they lies and BS they are already spreading..
And yes the contractors which are hiring illegal immigrants and using them a slave labor should be prosecuted to the FULL extent of our laws also. One problem is those laws are not strong enough now to make them stop...
Pete hits it right on. They are illegals because they have broken the rules and process regarding proper immigration. They jumped the que and pissed on everyone else who tries through legal channels.
Back in the early 90's, my uncle came from Poland on a work visa to Canada. He fell in love with the country and overstayed and the visa expired. Then he got pulled over by the cops and one thing led to another, and he was deported. My god did that hurt me, but i was young and didn't understand. He was proud and a hard worker, but it didn't give him a right to beat out other people currently in the process of trying to become Canadians.
People who make a big fuss about illegal immigration to not be called as such, i always have one thing i ask them. If it really isn't an issue that they defy the rules and piss on others trying to get here legally then answer me this.
There is no issue with illegal immigration from Canada to the US, there just isn't. So theres only the southern border, by virtue of it being a connected landmass. If a Mexican que jumps, gets caught, deported back over the border and keeps trying until successful, and you make the case that this is ok, and stop calling them illegals and such, then would you agree to building bridges thats span the length of the ocean to give people in other countries the same 'land' advantage to cross over into your country illegally and unmolested? If people in Africa, or Asia or Austrailia all had the same means of simply walking across a land border and staying illegally, would you accept that? Currently they all have to go through multiple security checks and passports and other hurdles just to make the plane that will take them to the US. They do not enjoy the same advantage.
Or is simply because it's latino's that make illegal immigration right? Can anyone answer that?
Yes they are here illegally. How does that impact those that are trying to enter legally? Do we authorize less immigration because of illegal immigration?
I was in Naco, Sonora a few years ago and we talked with some of the men getting ready to cross over. They were heading to Indiana to work in a meat packing plant. If a mexican in a village in central mexico knows there is work in Indiana, how can our diligent government not know employers in Indiana are hiring illegal immigrants? They need us to believe that 10 million people can find and sustain work and they (the government) just can't find out who is hiring them. Do you believe that?
Illegal immigration happens because we, our policy makers, want it to happen, maybe worse, they need it to happen. These are hard working folks, willing to work without complaint, for minimum wage or less. They buy a forged social security card, have taxes deducted. They do not get social security. They certainly have no representation to go along with the taxation.
I have heard it said that illegals do jobs that U.S. citizens will not do. More true in my experience is they do jobs for a price a U.S citizen will not accept. In so doing they lower the cost of labor throughout the system. Thats a good reason to be against illegal immigration...thats a good reason to increase the amount of legal work permits...and have those workers protected as all American workers are protected.
But it is not a good reason to deny basic helath and medical benefits.
Probably, as much as they'd like to, the term w**-***k is frowned upon.
Can't say that stuff; it's not P.C.
Great job on Countdown!!!
I got to have dinner with you at a Mexican restaurant in Austin with the large group. Look how famous you're becoming!
see white, conservative Christians as human beings. I mean really? Do you have to ask "why" anymore?
Illegals aren't white, they're brown. And they aren't Christian, they're Catholic - which to the Fox audience is the same thing as Satanist!
Nanner nanner!
Oh, wait - you were talking about the...
Never mind!
If we deny basic medical care because the illegals acted illegally, shouldn't we deny health care to those that hire them (illegally) as well. Thayts fair isn't it?
These folks don't come here because they like the view...they come to work. So for every "illegal", there is a corresponding "illegal" that hires them.
if they recognized anyone's humanity.
I love this site and generally agree with you guys, but not on this one. I don't see why there should not be a term which distinguishes between immigrants who are not in the country legally and those who are. To simply call anyone whom comes here an immigrant, whether they wait years+ do the paperwork etc , or whether they walk across the border, is another way of saying borders don't matter. I understand most people are just looking for work and I'm not looking to demonise anyone. But I think there are good reasons for having real borders and procedures to keep track of who is entering the country, and calling everyone an immigrant and putting them all on the same level is misleading and just another way of saying that anyone who comes here can stay.
but we need to go beyond labels. If we need 10 million immigrant workers...why don't we have 10 million legal work visas? Perhaps because we would rather collectively exploit this segment of humanity
to pay minimum wage or prevailing wages, social security, medicare, collect federal, state, and local taxes, pay unemployment insurance, disability insurance, and Worker's Comp. They would also have to abide by OSHA's workplace safety standards, and working hours laws. Why do all that when you can just exploit desperate and poor people? Which business model would most people prefer? Especially if a business corporation has a legal obligation to make as much money as possible? Duh!
Especially if they are in violation of the law. If they give you any crap, or complain about being paid for 40 hours work when they did 70 hours, simply threaten them with firing. What are they gonna do?
It's a win-win for the corporate fascists. They undercut American workers and save $$$$$$$$$$$ on bennies and taxes - while driving down wages. Meanwhile, they have a terrified and vulnerable work force that has no rights, and can be ruled with an iron fist!
The "free" market psycho's just love enslaved laborers. When will people wake up?
Indian? Then include yourself and all the others who are not and get out parasites. Take all your garbage with you. On second thought just go right now. We'll mail you your garbage.
I'm packed and ready - I'm sick of this place anyway. But I'm NOT cleaning up the mess I made. Your country, your problem.
No, wait - Indians came here from someplace else as well, and didn't fill out any forms because there wasn't any government to make them. Just like when the dreaded White Man arrived.
Maybe we should all leave...
And this is such a stupid issue to argue over. Whats next? You can't refer to people who've done time as ex-cons? Why, because it might hurt their feelings? How about shoplifters? How about teabaggers?
I do find it interesting that during the last election the Pubs were all fine with them being here because someone had to do the work that Americans didn't want to do, but now that they've made it an issue that they might get government paid for insurance - its a bad idea.
If they're here illegally, they're an illegal. You want that changed, make them a citizen.
Am I reading this mans proposal wrong? I took it to mean that they could buy a "private insurance plan". If it is private, does that not exclude the "public option".
paid for by the taxpayers exclusively. Not allowing them into the insurance pools means the insurance companies lose less money, which is part of their legal obligation to make as much money as possible for their shareholders.
..feel if we call them "monsters"?
never mind.
For the same reason they call the Democratic Party the "Democrat Party"; and why an Insurance Company is, in Foxspeak, a "Health Care Provider"; and why Socialists=Liberals=Communists=Nazis=Marxists=Progressives=Obama ad nauseam.
In other words, they do it because, though they may be dishonest, racist, right-wing propagandists, they sure do know how to frame.
Why does fox exist?
republicanism is a mental illness!
answered your own question there, bub.
:)
Because crazy people watch t.v. too.
love it!
we don't call speeders "illegal drivers"
That's true, but we refer to "unlicensed drivers" as exactly that. Speeding doesn't make you an illegal driver, but a suspended, revoked, or non-existent license does.
I live with two immigrants, one with US citizenship and the other with 'permanent' residency. I agree that the term illegal" is used as a pejorative... I prefer "undocumented alien." (A person who moves another country without an immigrant visa is not an immigrant, legal or otherwise).
Moving from one place to another is immigration. The person moving is an immigrant. A piece of paper given by a govt doesn't change the centuries old definition on your say so. And immigrant doesn't even have to be human, it can be a plant or an animal.
Christ. Use a fucking dictionary. You can google the word, even.
Behave. Learn to be polite.
I don't suffer fools or disseminators of false info gladly. Learn to look up words before you offer their definition.
BTW, My name is not Francis. That is the masculine form of the name, sport. Now who's being impolite?
Who died and made you my dad? Go order your own kids around. And lighten up yourself
is not an "immigrant" no more ;-)
Just saw you on Countdown. Well done! I think you're going to be in more demand the crazier they get. Thanks for all you do, Dave
I'm gonna have to watch!
I saw you (finally) on Countdown and immedeatly checked here to see if there was a heads up, but the thread below this one was the only one up. And now here you are again still fighting the good fight, did you whip out your computer when you were done and write the above? :D
Maybe it's because the Democrats are still afraid of 'labels' from the Repigs when they shouldn't be any more.
I seldom hear righties refer to non documented WHITE Irish or Eastern European immigrants as 'illiegals'-
'Illegal' is a dehumanizing term the right saves for brown skinned Latinos, as they see them as subhuman
are white folks in this country who are here without papers! They get a pass, and brown folks are demonized. They'll get their knickers in a twist because they don't like being called out for their racism, but that doesn't mean we should let them be comfy with it...
And with all types of 'illegal' there many reasons for their non 'legal' status, some overstayed, some arrived quietly, others had their legitimate status lapse by accident or INS screwup.
Remember somebody who loses their legitimate status, is most likely to panic and go underground, the INS is severe and non forgiving.
I think we should give immigrant visas to anyone who applies & qualifies... sort of a "shall-issue" green card.
Within a decade, we would have a population of 600 million... and no unsold houses, hundreds of thousands of new small businesses, and a budget surplus. The only problem: other countries would be furious at us for taking every one of their citizens who could raise the ~$500 filing fees.
(People who are, or have been, "undocumented aliens" would be disqualified under current law. I don't have a ready solution to that... but my proposal would at least turn off the supply of new undocumented aliens).
.
prostitution
and roulette and craps in California
Outlaw the republican party, and take corporate propaganda off the MSM.
Good-bye my Juan, Good-bye Rosalita.
So long, mes amigos, Jesus and Maria.
You won't have a name when you ride the big airplane.
All they will call you will be "deportees."
But I just downloaded the version that Concrete Blonde and Los Illegals collaborated on. Los Illegals were an in your face Chicano punk band...and in the context of referring to the band is the only time the word ought to be used. Nobody is illegal!
Always liked Concrete Blonde. Bloodletting (The Vampire Song) is my personal fav.
Racists and Faux must stop calling them that. It's just the same as calling a black person a n****r. Illegal immigrant, or undocumented worker is what is appropriate for those here without a visa. It's time for repuke media to bury that word with all the other dirty words that are not acceptable in decent society.
thing. Glad you finally noticed, david... :D
No one ever said that. That comment is over the top.
All they have to do is to believe it...
Making immigrants "illegal" is a way to make 'em legitimate 'targets,' to de-humanize 'em,
it's true, whether you think it over the top or not...
e.g., the next entrant o n the thread....
be called illegals...they should be called criminals! But of course then you libs really would freak out!
[Edited. Blogwhoring; link broken-Sitemonitor]
And you wingnuts have a reading-comprehension problem. See above as to why calling them "criminals" is wrong.
is UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS. That is the most accurate and non-threatening non-insulting description. They don't come here for health care or welfare handouts or to rob us. They come to work.
Ever see a (white American) guy on a street corner holding a "Will work for food"" sign? Pffft! Try offering him work picking fruit & veges, and see what he says & does.
The fucking racists that call them ixxxxls are usually white trash that aren't much richer or better off than undocumented workers. As David Neiwert says they are human beings, it's not Christian to call your neighbors, Mexico is the US's neighbor, names.
n/t
You've actually offered to "a white American guy" work picking fruit/veges (sic)? Not a bit racist there are you? I do construction and have offered work to black, white, hispanic, and basically they're all willing. But I'm also willing to pay decent. Maybe that's YOUR problem.
Well look-ee hear folks, it's one of "them." No offense taken off course.
The title of the article hit the nail on the head. The purpose of calling them illegals is to dehumanize them. It's easier to do violence on people when they are less than human. Whether it be physical violence or any form of maltreatment matters not.
When these people are "illegals", they are objects, obstacles, problems, annoyances--anything but human. Then it's easier to deal with the problem any way they please, because it's not longer an issue that affects people.
You know who is just as harmful and costly to the system as illegal immigrants? Anyone who works under the table. The thing is is that work itself has become such an expensive proposition for employee and employer (especially small ones) that there is GREAT incentive to work under the table for legals.
If you work under the table, you will have at least 25% more money at the end of the day to go towards your cash out of pocket health care.
If I had it to do all over again, I would never even get a social security number.
More than illegal immigrants? More than illegal immigrants working under the table? Unending illegal war. No Universal Healthcare. A House Divided Against Itself.
Illegal immigrants are hardly a blip on the radar in real world terms.
And if I didn't have an SSN, I would not have SS disability, which supports me now.
I agree miss kitty. They are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
My comment goes towards pulling away from the system because it has become so corrupt, the less contact and dependency you have on your government, the better off you are.
Also, Our social security numbers, when they were originally enacted they said it would be used for one thing: receiving benefits from the social security system. Now it is used for everything, including identity theft.
I used to investigate it. Then after years of being careful, my SSN was stolen from my hospital records after a poor prognosis (thieves thought I was going to die).
I know there was a law that banned use for anything other than benefits, but it was my student loan number, my school id number, it's my medicare number, it's attached to my bank account and some states use it as a DL number.
And I agree, with caveats, about less contact with the gov, as long as you stay relatively healthy. Even with insurance, the gov has your medical records. So get sick, go to another country, if you don't want our Big Brother in your biz.
however like you mentioned, it is a marginal one at best when we consider the other larger items of policy and issues our society is facing.
It is yet another silly canard to divide people and distract from the real issues. Frankly, we lose orders of magnitude more money each year because the people at the very top are not paying their fair share... than we're losing by them illegals. In fact, most illegals provide more value added than a big chunk of the top 1% of our population... who not only don't pay their fair share, but are also responsible for the massive exportation of American jobs overseas.
So if we're going to be serious about protecting American jobs and tax revenue, then let's call a spade a spade, and yeah we should tackle the illegal immigration problem, but let's also tackle the fact that the top 1% are not only not paying their fair share... but they are also shipping our jobs overseas and have had a worse impact than illegal immigration ever had. Are we willing to do that?
We should tax consumption instead.
Rather than forcing individuals to report and pay taxes on their income, we should nave a national sales tax to replace that revenue.
It would be much harder for businesses to underreport sales than for individuals to hide income... what legitimate businessman would risk his or her sales tax ID to give a discount?
48 states already collect sales tax, so the process there would just involve changing the numbers; the states would forward the federal portion to Washington.
Of course, there would be significant exemptions: items for resale, uncooked food ingredients, childrens' clothing, adult clothing items under $100, health expenses, gasoline, and other things chosen to remove the burden from the poor.
The result: Wealthy people would pay the same percentage of their income on things they buy. Since they buy more expensive things, the actual revenue would be quite helpful... and none of us would be anxious to work under the table, since we'd still be taxed at the store.
I don't believe any food or water should be taxed, but I agree with your point. Of course greatly reducing the size of the federal government at the same time would work wonders on tax revenue requirements.
We'll start with defense.
...by eliminating the vast machinery of apparatchiks who are collecting information about our income, trying to catch us lying about it, and settling the over/under on our income taxes every April 15th.
Then, we could afford to give everyone in Afghanistan and Iraq enough money to live better lives, so our poor soldiers don't need to use bombs & guns to make them love us (hint: it's not working).
and we could all have access to healthcare.
Payroll taxes are regressive. Warren Buffet has pointed out his secretary pays a higher rate of tax than he does. That's criminal.
The only problem with the so called Fair Tax is that it relies on merchants to accurately report. And, sad to say, rich folks will get away with paying less (like on a multi-million dollar yacht, for example), as they always do. I agree with the concept but it's the execution I don't buy (tax or not ;-)
The fair tax is a horrible idea. The wealthy would just find a way around it. What we need are real marginal tax rates again on the super rich, and a wealth tax!
There is no reason not to do this, considering the top one percent have more money than the bottom 95%!
since it is not adaptive. In fact, it is the most extreme version of "trickle down" economics. And we all know how that has worked out so "great."
This is another attempt by the rich to convince us to create a tax system based around the concept of IOUs where we expect them to contribute their fair share out of their (the rich) own accord. Whenever I encounter a proponent of the "fair tax" (talk about a misnomer, up there with "compassionate conservatism") I ask them if they would be OK with a similar revenue model for their business. I.e. if they would be OK with me as their customer, and if they would allow me to pay in the same fashion a "fair" tax system would operate. Usually the answer is "hell no."
In other words, what these ganders are telling us is good for the goose, they want nothing to do with it when it comes to their own interests. Ain't that a bitch?
That is because of idiotic tax policy. The kind repukes and bluedogs just love.
it is monumentally idiotic.
The wealthier you are, the lower the percentage of your income is spent on consumption. In fact, that is why people are wealthy: because they take more money in, than they spend. Ergo, if we simply tax consumption then the wealthy end up paying disproportionally less taxes than poor people.
But then again, libertarians are too stupid to realize that.
That's taking quite a bit upon yourself at a very early age, considering most people get them right after they are born.
Um... because they are illegals Minerva. Get a grip and focus on a real problem! This "crying for someone else's wounded psyche" crap is not appropraite on a sinking ship.
What bullshit. They have no right to stand on U.S. soil. People who go through the legal immigration process, people of every color, every creed, and from every country, are legal immigrants, and I respect their effort.
I strongly support jailing the employers of illegal immigrants and providing free transportation for the illegals back to their homeland. I strongly support a workable guest worker program for visiting foreign agricultural workers with full worker protection and annual return to their homes.
Ie illegal immigrants in Afghanistan, Iraq and Puerto Rico !?
... after all we're the ones writing the laws, don't you know?
Step 1. Steal 50+% of Mexico
Step 2. Make the people who were living there for eons before us "illegals"
Step 3. ????
Step 4. Profit!
The funniest part about the "conquest" of the SouthWest is that the excuses the American government used to do take over half of Mexico were among other: That the Mexican government was starting to be more proactive in discouraging illegal settlements of white US immigrants, and that the Mexicans were imposing a single language on their own territories (Spanish) and expecting said illegal settlers to learn it.
Fast forward a century and a half, and voila... now you have them gringos with their panties all caught in a twist discouraging illegal "settlement" and complaining about them Mexikens not speaking English just like Jesus intended. If we could market hypocrisy, we would have to worry not about any economic crisis for a few centuries IMHO.
LOL
is often the fault of the INS, the governments immigration org is ancient and crufty, their case system is antiquated and very slow, the INS send you a letter asking you to send a copy of an INS letter they sent you, to another of their INS departments. Pretty pathetic that the INS cannot do all its paperwork on one unified computerized system. Also relying on their forecast timescale will result in status becoming void, they do not respond to returned forms in time, to avoid a status lapsing.
The INS is a nightmare system, expensive and a minefield.
...what other law(s) should we be able to ignore? I'm not sure of the road blocks or hurdles these individuals must face, but I hope President Obama and congress create a just policy.
"Speeding doesn't make you an illegal driver"...Unless you get a traffic citation.
How...if a tree falls in the woods-ish. Speeding is breaking the law. Period. (I know, I do it enough - without getting caught.)
"How...if a tree falls in the woods-ish." Robbing a bank, abusing a child, kidnapping An 11-year-old California girl... breaking the law. Period.
"(I know, I do it enough - without getting caught.)" NOT!
PS. I should have included... found guilty. :-/
citation; ci·ta·tion
1. The act of citing.
2. a. A quoting of an authoritative source for substantiation. b. A source so cited; a quotation.
3. Law A reference to previous court decisions or authoritative writings.
4. Enumeration or mention, as of facts, especially: a. An official commendation for meritorious action, especially in military service: a citation for bravery. b. A formal statement of the accomplishments of one being honored with an academic degree.
5. An official summons, especially one calling for appearance in court.
Excuse me, folks, but the point about promoting immigration reform is that these are bad laws that needlessly criminalize people.
The same argument holds for our current marijuana laws.
In fact, the problem with our immigration laws is almost perfectly analogous to the problem with our drug laws: both are outdated relics of a time when prejudice and hysterical fears ruled our worldview, and both are heavily racialized attempts to control nonwhite people.
Yet I find myself amazed by the people who readily understand that our marijuana laws -- and the enforcement of them -- is innately unjust, but who are incapable of comprehending that our immigration laws (particularly the insistence on bottling up the citizenship process) are every bit as unjust, unworkable, and in need of a complete overhaul.
with a smattering of human and civil rights to prevent oppression of minorities by the majority.
The Law is never unscientific or illogical policy/procedure, if it is, its unjust and immoral.
What we have and suffer under in the name of 'The Law' is lobbyist sponsored BS, corporate rubbish and protectionism masquerading as law.
They are what they are , "illegal" immigrants . Sometimes we on the left get as goofy as the far right . I am fifty eight years old , ( first time ) unemployed American who's lost everything looking for a job like millions of other Americans , while I am not calloused or without compassion or understanding you can cry me a river as far as calling illegals ... illegals . Fact : they benefit the wealthy , drive wages down for Americans and they absolutely do take jobs that Americans would take .Take care of our own first or do you prefer Mexico to be the model for the USA ? Legal immigration , fine and good , WELCOME ! Illegal immigration ? Just enforce the law which includes prosecuting those who hire illegal immigrants .
i know this is not a popular view/opinion but i'm against undocumented workers "illegals" in this country.
first of all they are often taken advantage of, secondly they undercut legal labor/part of the stagnant wages in this country and thirdly the cost to have "cheap labor" is shifted to the tax payors all for wallStreet. wallStreet wants us to be overly concerned/preoccupied with the moral issue while they keep wages down.
consider most of the population here as illegal immigrants?
On a second note, there is an article about how only 3% of OK students would pass a citizenship test if given one. I don't get how we can shut out other undocumented immigrants, but yet students that are citizens that were born here wouldn't even pass the damn test if they had to take it! Isn't that hypocrisy?
to the fact that this is a place made by immigrants on stolen land.
Do Insurance companies exercise a protocol of checking everyone's citizenship papers before they will sell them a policy? I honestly don't know, but I would be surprised to find that they do. Even if an applicant checks a box that says he/she is not a citizen of the United States, would the company refuse their money? I think it would be interesting to find out how many policies are sold by American insurance companies to people who are not citizens of this country.
Does the US military check up on the immigration status of potential troops?
no not really.
Immigrants who come here illegally are probably going to be in good health when they come. They pay into the program, but many (especially seasonal workers) won't be here in the US long enough to file the paperwork to receive insurance, get sick, and get treatment.
That means that on the whole, they'll be paying into the system but won't be getting anything out of it.
Which means, in turn, that they'll be effectively subsidizing the health insurance for those of us who are in the country legally.
Illegal/undocumented workers only pay into "the program" of their employer, who is certainly not reporting them and or paying any health insurance/workman's compensation, etc. And you think they're paying income taxes?
The majority of undocumented workers are not working under the table for cash. They've gone through a routine hiring process (although admittedly not a stringent one, because the employer doesn't really want to know), and are generally working on falsified documents, including the SSN.
Which means that their paychecks, just like yours, are docked for Social Security, Medicare, state and federal taxes. Unlike you, however, they can't file the 1040 and get their refund, or file to receive SSN or Medicare benefits.
The usual hatred Indifference attitudes of Ignorance expressed by the White Supremacist nit wit NOISE Net Work. Notice how the Hate mongers are trying to justify their WHITE SUPRWMACIST twisted reporting. Who say racism is dead in America listen to the NAZI NEWS NET WORK FOX, their motto is their isn't a NON WHITE THEY DO NOT HATE.
Well, if you're wrong, they have a lot of explaining to do don't they. I guess until FOX network clears things up we will have to asume everyone at the FOX network is a fascist including Murdoch. Fascist is as fascist does.
I don't care if it's a matter of national security to treat some segment of the population for communicable diseases.
I'm an American. That means I am by nature a generous, compassionate, caring person. Therefore, everybody in America should have Medicare available to them. No exceptions.
It's a moral issue.
... the care of illegals would add at most less than 2% to the overall health care costs.
But hey, let's all focus on that rather than on the 35%+ on average which HMOs add to our health care costs with absolutely no value added whatsoever.
If there was a will to end illegal immigration it would only take a month to do so: simply prosecute employers who are breaking the law. And voila, you'd see illegal immigration come to a halt. Let's not forget that people come to this country to work, not to "stick it" to the great American super-duper legal residents.
I am not condoning illegal immigration, I really don't care for semantics as I think it is silly for liberals to get caught on labels. However, I am just tired of self righteous rants on the topic by people who would rather get caught dead than having to spend an honest day of work picking up fruit in the fields, or washing dishes for shit pay... so they can cry me a river about the "jobs them illegals are taking away." The magnitude of the hypocrisy comes from the fact, that we took most of their country illegally... but now, we "love" the law don't we... now that we have their land, we get to call them "illegals."
your territory with impunity and without your permission?
How about trespassers? Does that make what they've done any more palatable to progressive sensibilities?
Oh, and Mexico isn't exactly welcoming to its' own version of covert 'immigrants'. Here, when they're caught, they're housed, fed and deported. There, they'd be lucky if all that happens are bruises and broken bones.
... we too almost 60% of their country, so who are the trespassers?
I'm pretty hard-assed anti-illegal immigrant
But the problem with health care for immigrants issue is that it's asking doctors to act like law enforcers, and insurance bureaucrats to act like doctors.
History is full of people screwing other people. If at some point you don't move on you end up with these centuries old, deeply embedded animosities like we find in the Balkans and elsewhere. The evils of the past shouldn't be forgotten, but at some point you have to accept them and try to behave better in the future.
I sure hope that the freaks don't see this. We will have the whole government put to work changing the law to where it is a capital offense.
That's the Fox demographic. They provide the hate to the hateful. It's who they are. The Hate Network.
[Edited - we get it, you're a poet. Dial it back just one notch. Thx. - Sitemonitor]
Illegal immigration is not a US creation nor is it a problem only for the US. Mexico deports illegal immigrants from Central America and China back home. The EU can detain illegal immigrants for up to 18 months. India is putting up a fence to keep out Bengladeshis. Any country with a sufficiently good quality of life has to limit immigration or it will lose that quality of life from a tidal wave of immigrants. It really doesn't matter where the immigrants come from or what their ethnic backgrounds are: the driving force is the difference in the quality of life between their home country and this one. Unfortunately, in today's world there are many areas of horrible poverty so there is no shortage of would-be immigrants.
To characterize the desire to stop illegal immigration as a far-right issue is not correct. A supermajority of the American people want an end to illegal immigration.
Thanks for the insight pointy hatted Tardboy.
It's so easy to scapegoat immigrants and hold them responsible for everything that's wrong. But the truth is America is a country that has historically stood strong on values of fairness, due process and opportunity. And post 9/11, we seem to have let go of these values - arresting people with warrants, detaining immigrants in inhumane conditions and deporting them without a fair trial. Check out our 9 minute video with take action at www.restorefairness.org which has personal testimonies of families, members of congress, immigration judges and civil society leaders testifying to the loss of these values. and when we deny fairness to some, isnt it true that we are putting all of our values at risk?
...ever since my African-American Lit professor in college discussed with us the difference between referring to "slaves" and "enslaved people." The former dehumanizes and strips people of their own agency, while the latter recognizes the unique circumstances of a certain segment of humanity.
Since then I have also become extremely uncomfortable with the widespread use of "blacks" and "whites" in discussions of race. We are people. Some are black people, some are white people. Maybe I've become hypersensitive to this one issue, but sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who cringes at it. The reductionism of "illegals" is the same thing, and is completely counter to a tolerant worldview.