A word about southeastern Idaho, where schoolkids chant "Assassinate Obama"
By David Neiwert Thursday Nov 13, 2008 10:00amExcuse me a moment while I go throw up (no offense to David Edwards and Muriel Kane at Raw Story):
Madison County, Idaho was once dubbed "the reddest place in America" by Salon, but that didn't make it any less shocking when elementary school children started chanting "assassinate Obama on the school bus.
Matthew Whoolery told KIKD News he found out about the chanting from his second and third graders, who had no idea what the word "assassinate" meant.
"They just hadn't heard anything like this before," Whoolery stated. "I think the thing that struck us was just like, 'Where did they get the word and why would they put that word and that person together?'"
Whoolery, a psychology professor at Brigham Young University in Rexburg, is not an Obama supporter, but he was shocked that any public official would be threatened in that way. "I don't think that the majority of people in Rexburg have extreme ideas like that, but we were just surprised that it would go that far," Whoolery told KIKD.
The Madison County School District has sent out an email saying that students are to be told this sort of behavior is unacceptable.
OK. I grew up in southeastern Idaho -- Idaho Falls, to be exact, about 30 miles south of Rexburg. I've spent a fair amount of time in Madison County; it was where one of my more traumatic experiences as a young adult occurred. So I can talk a little about why this kind of thing might happen there.
This particular corner of the country, as the Raw Story piece notes, is heavily Mormon. Roughly 90 percent of the population there is LDS. And because of that, there is a virulent and entrenched strain of John Bircherite extremism in the body politic. That in turn has helped produce a long-running parade of right-wing extremists (particularly tax protesters and "constitutionalists") who have made Madison County their home.
At the same time, it is by nearly all outward appearances a classic slice of American heartland. My great-aunt and -uncle, both non-Mormons, lived most of their lives there and were not just perfectly comfortable, thoroughly accepted members of the community, but they loved it. There is a decency and integrity to the town and that transcends political considerations.
So having their schoolkids chant "assassinate Obama" must have shocked their sensibilities deeply, which is why school officials and parents made a point of standing up against it.
At the same time, it's not terribly surprising. And not just because there is such a deep streak of ultra-right thinking that runs through this community -- but also because the campaign just finished by Republicans was so rife with rabble-rousing rhetoric that it is, frankly, a wonder this hasn't happened more often, and in more places than just southeastern Idaho.
In fact, it very likely -- indeed, almost certainly -- has. And it's to the credit of Rexburg's conservative Mormons that they drew attention to it. Perhaps they will stop and take a good hard look at the kind of hate they've been spewing before their children.
If only other Republicans in the rest of the heartland would do the same.
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Religion poisons everything.
Please elaborate.
Nuke 'em!
I gave you time to explain your bizarre word association. Don't be so quick to associate "black" with something very negative...maybe like these children(due to your upbringing), you can't help yourself.
Like children are the new cigarettes (or smokers in restaurants).
... seriously, WTF?
"A new commandment I give unto you. That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."
This is the key quote from J.C. that I was raised to believe, along with all the other things he said and did.
The problem, as I see it, is that "Christians" like Sarah Palin, Rev. Hagee, Pat Robertson, and all the other right-wing fundamentalist wackos who teach their children to hate homosexuals, to ignore the reality of human sexuality in modern times (thus Sarah Palin herself rushed into a "shotgun" marriage and her daughter and many "Evangelical" Christian teenage girls getting pregnant by the miracle!!! of abstinence only sex education), to be overt or covert racists, to be blatant hypocrites (thus all the Holier-Than-Thou famous past preachers getting caught literally with their pants down in hotel rooms with hookers) and on and on.
I don't care if it's Barack Obama, John McCain, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden ("Catholic"), Sarah Palin or any other self-professed "Christians". If they are not witnessing to John 13:34-35, IMHO they are NOT Christians at all, but merely poseurs using Jesus' name for political gain.
All of the above have supported the indiscriminate killing and torture of other human beings (Iraq), not to mention that they have all sworn on the Bible to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic" and as far as I can see they have NOT.
So, please, BennyP @10:05, don't paint all Christians with too broad a brush. There are those of us who try to be true disciples of J.C. every moment of our lives, and those who are full of not the Lord, but themselves.
Say "Amen!"
Thank you!!
(P.S. And I am a FIRM believer in the separation of church and state. Which is why I'm Pro-choice. It is not for me to dictate to others what to do with their bodies etc.)
Whom would Jesus bomb?
your comment makes me want to reconsider Christianity. And here, I was painting all Christians as being intolerant, judgemental ass-holes, in a similar way in which the parents of these chanting kids might be viewing Barrack Obama and all people of color.
Thanks and I say "Amen"
If I lived in this area, I would move. This has gone on long enough. These people better wake up. In a couple of decades, THEY will be the minority. They better get used to it.
Your kids are what YOU make them.
Absolutely pathetic.
But many of them will grow up to realize that their parents were ugly wrong, and that's when they'll take a second look and realize they don't want to be like them.
Ever notice, how young kids of all races can play together just fine.
When they get a little older, and able to better grasp abstract ideas...
That's when they start showing, or acting out what they've learned from their relatives...it would seem, in this case, that maybe these kids may have been either coached to chant this shit...or they spontaneously started it...either way...not good.
Ask childre "why" and the only answer/reason they can come up with is "because".
I was taught by my parents to do just the opposite.
...and while they didn't like it when I dated outside my race...that was only because we lived in a small NC town, where everyone knew the local klan grandwizard (or whatever they call themselves) by name.
They feared for my safety, and rightly so.
We received death threats, I got almost daily beatings from the racist white kids.
And some skinheads cornered my sisters in a mall elevator, and really scared the shit out of them.
That was before I had ever heard of skinheads. But they were bald, with tattoos and the suspenders, the boots, the whole get-up.
and the weird thing is...I actually look forward to going back there to visit...
Despite all the scary shit that happened, I have more good memories, than bad ones.
The town has changed, become more of a suburb of Charlotte, and is more tolerant of people like me.
It has lost it's racist redneck mentality for the most part.
And that is a good thing!
That just kinda came out on it's own.
ABSOLUTELY.
I was fortunate enough to have fairly liberal parents, a good public school education, and just enough "good" religion (love, respect for fellow man, regardless of skin color, etc) to turn out OK, I guess.
I can easily see how the opposite--racist, ignorant parents, home-schooling without oversight/social checks, and extreme, fanatical religious brainwashing--could churn out tomorrows hate groups.
I don't know the specifics of these kids, but I doubt they've had similar upbringings to mine or those of many here.
Children are a reflection of their parents and their upbringing.
I hope the people of that town are proud.
But sometimes I think it depends on the level of haterd. My father is a bigot. But I was raised in a multicultual area. Fortunity, it didn't rub off on me.
The multiculturalism?
Excuse me a moment while I go throw up (no offense to David Edwards and Muriel Kane at Raw Story):
Why, did you puke on their shoes?
... anything of value or substance to this message board?
In care you're wondering, you're not funny.
The kids don't know what the word means. But it came from somewhere.
I doubt, but I could be wrong, that they heard the comment in school, and if they did...it was probably from a classmate. So...ultimately it came out of a home...and obviously it came out in the context that it was repeated.
These are seven and eight year olds. They're like little parrots.
And they're all crackers too.
Does that mean they have to eat themselves?
the fact that a memo had to be sent to school staff to instruct them to tell students this is "unacceptable". I can't understand how a bus driver, teacher or other staff wouldn't have put a stop to this the first time they heard even one child utter the phrase.
I'm in a pretty red corner of a blue state and work for a school district in a very conservative, very small, almost 100% white town. This incident would have never been allowed to go that far. Ever.
It's entirely possible the kids didn't really know what they were saying. Yes, they probably got it from somewhere, the hushed tones and sideways glace giving them the idea it was something dirty, and as kids, said it to be mischievous. It doesn't mean you jump from that to condemning the whole town, without more evidence.
Though in any case, doesn't this mean the Secret Service is gonna descend on the area en masse, now? You can't even joke about such a thing, so a whole school bus full of kids chanting it, that's going to be a lot of official activity.
Right. Just kids being kids. Leave 'em alone.
"Assassinate Obama" does not translate to 'being mischievous.' Not by any measure.
And when I was raised, one of the lessons imparted was that each of us represents our school, our family, and our community. So, as far as looking askance at the whole town, when you get a bus full of kids chanting the above, you know it didn't just happen in a vacuum.
Where I grew up, the N word was used and also the word Queer (which we thought meant strange). Kids not know what the N word meant (having only Native Americans as minorities in the community) called one another that, because it sounded funny. They also called one another Queer, thinking it meant weird or strange.
The first time I used the word Queer, while fighting with my brother, my otherwise tolerant and loving Grandmother washed my mouth out with soap.
The first time I heard the N word on television (by a Southerner on the news during the 60's) my Grandmother explained it was the worst word there was.
These things are learned at home. They are either reinforced or quashed at home.
The story above is not just "kids being kids". It is a story of adults being intolerant racists and unrepentently passing that on to their children.
my mean gramma told me not to use the word 'queer' too. When I asked why I clearly remember her saying "Because they're not very nice people." I can see and hear her saying it.
Glad I knew she was mean and full of shit. The little pearl of
wisdomshite never to hold, thank fucking god.The reason I was told was that it was an insult directed at certain people, since I was too young to understand what homosexuality meant.
We definitely didn't have the same Grandmother. It was the only time she ever reprimanded me. She was the most wonderful person I ever knew.
I had a lovely one too, but Dad's mom was horrid. She said that in front of my mom whose favourite cousin was queer who lived in SF (an interior decorator, no less) at that time.
It must have killed my mom to hear her m-i-l speak that way. I don't recall, she may have tried to correct it, while trying not to fuss. That old hag was no one you'd want to cross.
"differing in some odd way from what is usual or normal"
You kids had it right the first time.
One of the things that was clearly going on here was that the majority kids were harassing the kids in the minority (some of the chants added kids' names). I can tell you that this is a constant for non-Mormon kids in these communities, as well as those who are "out" for other reasons, i.e., politics.
It had a lot to do with why I fled southeastern Idaho upon graduation; I returned for a two-year stint at the Blackfoot paper in '80-'82, but was relieved to be leaving when I finally did. Have only gone back for high-school reunions.
I grew up in Southern Alberta, Canada where LDS are the majority and they are by and large an intolerant and bigoted bunch, despite their squeaky clean image.
Kids on a school bus chanting "assassinate Obama"? Not knowing what you're saying is hardly an excuse, especially in our climate. Second and third graders chanting hatred is very wrong and speaks volumes of their upbringing.
But I'm being too tough on the poor kiddies huh, spinn?
Yes, I'd say you are. I seriously doubt that a schoolbus of kids would be knowingly calling for the death of the president-elect. If I am wrong, then yes, it's a terribe, nasty thing. I just can't believe it's true, and neither should anyone reading this article as presented, because it doesn't have enough detail to say so.
Is it wrong? Yes. Is there some source of hatred in that town that caused this event to happen? Yes. But from the scant info people have in this article, people were skipping right to "THAT TOWN IS HORRIBLE" kind of conclusions, and that's wrong, as well.
Religion = hatred and violence. Always has, always will.
Amen to that
Well, unequal treatment at the very least. This can be taken to the extremes of hatred and violence.
I'm a hard core atheist, have been since I was around 12. But I'm sorry religion does not just equal hate and violence. Its true religion often leads to hate and violence and I think the world will be a better place when eventually we have no religion. But many decent, beautiful, loving, and even sexy people can be religious. Have you ever been to cathedrals in Europe? Have you listened to religious music by Bach, Brahms, and Mozart? Have you ever seen what Micelangelo painted on the Sisteen chapel? Religion also can inspire and motivate people to do beautiful, self sacrificing, creative things. When you say simplistic things such as "Religion = hatred and violence" you demonstrate the same narrow minded fundamentalism that is the hallmark of the worst in religion.
this is a family values issue. Don't you believe in family values.
I dunno, I never tried to buy one.
... how receptive and observant our children truly are. It's not just what we teach them in school and at home, it's what they observe when we aren't giving any particular thought to the lesson plan.
This must be a mutant strain of Mormons. Most Mormons I know (from CA, NV and UT) would never teach this to their children. They wouldn't even think of it.
This sounds more gun toting white-trash redneck than Mormon. Just my opinion.
Mormons have vastly differing private faces compared to their public faces. I'm not just trying to pick on Mormons. Many religious folk are like this.
Any of that 'virtuous' stuff's gotta be pretty well buried, if the school board had to circulate a memo reminding ADULTS that such behavior was "unacceptable."
I sure am glad I'll never have to set foot in such a 'virtuous' place...
The school board knew where this shit was flowing from. That's why they wrote to parents. It wasn't simply an FYI notification.
I don't think that the kids not knowing what they were saying is any excuse to have let it transgress into a chant. The bus driver should be held accountable for letting them get that far. Its not like kids just start chanting.
When I was a kindergartner I rode a bus with kids of all ages and the big kids liked to tease me. They weren't mean about it though and I never realized I was being teased. They were sweet. But one kid told me to flip off the bus driver even showing me how to hold my fingers. I did and got thrown off the bus for a week.
Times they are a changin.
The fault rests with the parents.
The bus driver didn't stop it that makes him/her part of it. The parents instigated it for sure but someone should have nipped it in the bud before it became an issue. And that person is the bus driver.
I would only excuse the driver if this is the kind of community where parents have 'you can't talk to my kid that way'-itis.
Well like the old saying: 'tisbetter to ask forgiveness than permission'
"It's sometimes easier to ask forgiveness than permission," an old landscaper's axiom.
"May I take out that horrifically ugly bush, please?"
"No"
Alternate ending:
"Sorry, that bush was so ugly, I assumed that, given your excellent taste, you'd have wanted it removed."
"Huh? Wha? Ummm OK I guess. It DOES look better now!"
Well look at that hideous shrub we've been stuck with in 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Thanks Miss Kitty - I actually looked it up before I used it on Google but it didn't give me the info I was looking for. I thought it was easier too, but Google disagreed with me. Huh. You're a regular Alan Titchmarsh. :)
Alan knows his stuff, as do I :)
Have you ever been on a school bus? It is the drivers job (poorly paid job) to drive the children to and from school. Had he stopped the bus, or kicked children off the bus, there would be irrate parents, claiming their children had been endangered.
The driver is is a no-win situation.
Since when is it a bus driver's job to teach morality to his passengers.
Grow up! Get real! Give me a break!
It is always someone else's fault. For Fu** Sake! What ever happened to personal responsibility or have you never heard of that.
Blaming the bus driver is like blaming Ronald McDonald when you get a bad hamburger.
well if Ronald McDonald gave me the burger than yes I would blame him if it were bad.
If I saw someone I was responsible for doing something reprehensible than I would stop it.
By your logic that bus driver isn't responsible for a damn thing on that bus just the bus. But as a frigging human being its that drivers responsibility to stop a fukking social tragedy. So if the kids were beating another the bus driver wouldn't have a responsibility to stop that either?
Why don't you grow some social consciousness?
It is a waste of time responding to you. I'm outta here.
Amalink made a valid point.
Why is it wasting your time to respond?
This ain't like you...at least not that I've ever noticed.
Maybe I'm confusing you for another poster, but you usually have intelligent stuff to say.
Well, I'm with CMINCA. Saying "If I saw someone I was responsible for doing something reprehensible than I would stop it" doesn't recognize the situation that anyone who is unfortunate enough to have to drive a bus for a living is in. Although I don't quite like the Ronald McDonald analogy (I think anyone working for McDonalds is a bit guilty but that's another story).
Especially since that's the only kind you'll ever get there.
You and I rarely disagree...
But when I rode the bus...it was also the bus drivers job to maintain order while in charge of the kids.
Our bus driver, Ms. Hazel stopped the bus MANY a time, to straighten our little asses out.
Tellin kids to sit down and shut up ain't teaching morality...it's just what bus drivers have to do sometimes.
Who knows...for all we know, the bus driver in question, may have been the instigator of all this BS...
and you can bet your sweet arse that if shit like that broke out on one of my buses, the bus would have pulled over, and the driver would have straightened it out. And if that had not been possible, heads would have rolled at school this next day, parents would have to leave work for conferences. Not pleasant.
And I do remember after a couple of kids ganged up on my best friend Katie and called her a 'chink' in 4th grade. Katie went home early, and we all got our arses reamed for it, whether we participated or not.
The ones who did it didn't really know what it was they were doing (Her white 'boyfriend' started it) but EVERYONE got it afterward.
You are right that bus drivers have hard jobs and are not paid shit. It is, however, their job to keep the order on that bus. They can and do pull over (safely), stop the bus and do whatever they are allowed to do legally when there is a disciplinary situation. It is the district's job to back up that driver when they have done their job according to school policy and parents choose to complain for one reason or another.
You are also right when you said "Since when is it a bus driver's job to teach morality to his passengers". It is the job of the parents (who in this case obviously are asleep at the wheel). But... since Columbine every school district in this country has policies and rules concerning 'threatening' language and behaviors. Consequences are very heavy and it doesn't matter who that student(s) is talking about; the point of these rules is to teach students that it is not acceptable to bully another in any way. The bus driver in Idaho clearly was choosing how to apply that district's anti-bullying rules and didn't do his/her job.
In reality teachers and school staff in this country HAVE to teach morality. In most cases we're doing most of the parenting. You'd be surprised how much of our time is spent on stuff like this. Funny how no one warned me about this one when I was spending all my time and effort in college getting degrees that enabled me to ... TEACH.
Methinks a visit from the Secret Service is in order.
It's against the law to threaten the life of the President-Elect, even if you don't mean it. Even if it's a bunch of kids chanting something they heard from adults, the bus driver should be questioned by the Service if nothing more than to scare them straight.
So typical how the interviewer feels the need to ask if the outrage would extend to chants of "assassinate McSame" - AS IF there needs to be some kind of parity in order for people to understand how unbelievably upsetting that kind of language is! This is another example why we have to stick a fork in the Repug party. They bring out the worst in humanity and COUNT on it to maintain their boney grip around the neck of power. You KNOW those children came from households that hang on the words of people like McSame and Palin who STILL sit there after their ass-whooping and question Obama's "associations." Those kid's parents should all get a visit from the Secret Service. Isn't threatening the life of a President a crime? The REPUG PARTY is merely an organized crime family who exploit the lack of intelligence, racism, homophobia and cowardice of their supporters. They MUST go if our "We The People" are to create a more perfect Union!
They know what vulgarities are and they know what Assassinate means.
This isn't freedom of speech. Its a Federal Offense to threaten the President. Toss 'em in prison. End of story.
A little harsh maybe???
I think the kids DEFINITELY need to be interviewed by whatever authority handles such things, in order to find out who got these kids saying that crap.
But puttin 7 and 8 y/o's in prison is not an option.
would scare the cowboy shit out of these kids and it would be a good thing. Then once the black suit/shiny sunglasses/earpiece team gave them a strong talking to about why saying things like that, even if it was a joke, is wrong, the teachers could tell them how sad they would feel if someone was singing about killing their parents, grandparents or siblings. Kids understand better if you put things in that perspective. But a visit from the security team would be no bad thing.
And then. Show them the film of Kennedy's assassination to drive home the point of what that word really means and how bad it was for them to be chanting such bullshit.
We watched that JFK documentary in school, the whole school went in shifts to watch it in the auditorium...that scene where he gets hit..it still gives me a sick feeling when I think about it.
really. I was 10 but I remember.
send the SS in there to talk sense into these little shitheads' PARENTS.
Give the kids a thrill, and watch dad's nut's shrink into his torso as the secret Service gives the family abode a thorough going over.
The kids are probably like their patron saints
Beavis & Butthead
Heh...heh...heh...he said ass...
and advocate killing it, because it upsets their 'Book of Mormon' outlook, and they obviously do not follow the teachings of the Christ, for He was of Love and Respect for fellow humans, regardless of their origins. Mormons HATE BLACK PEOPLE. They are considered inferior in God's eyes, according to their teachings. They'll say that's not so anymore, but they are liars. The fact that it was so at one time, and in my lifetime, is a total cred destroyer. Jesus didn't say, in the 60s or 70s "OK. Blacks are cool now, Mormons." That was His teaching all along. Check out the Parable of the Good Samaritan story, Mormons. It's been in the real bible since the New Testament was written. Tell me why the Mormons don't have to extend help to those with whom they do not see eye to eye.
"Love your neighbor as yourself."
As a person whose family helped found the LDS (chased out of Studham Beds. England for being Nutted Up) and build infrastructure in Utah and Wyoming in from about 1865 to the 1950s, and still having lost modern day members to this cult, I know exactly what it is I'm speaking of.
In other words, this is a preemptive STFU strike on any arsehole Mormon apologists.
How can one love their neighbor as themself, when so many churches frown on self-love?
Get a hold of yourself!
Such activity will make ya go blind!!
That would explain my optometryst's prescription for my glasses.
Also, I have hairy palms.
Just sayin...
the friction take care of the hairy palms? just sayin'
Or are we talking about plants?? They did have palm trees in Jesus' time.
Hey guys, get a grip on it will you! Now, where did I put my glasses.....
Onan should be excised from the OT.
But if humans weren't as stupid as turkeys in a downpour, we wouldn't be drowning in this shit.
The fact that people literally take [the convenient] parts of the bible as gospel, a 2000 to what -- 5000 year old text, as though nothing has changed in that time (like the 2nd Amendment was written with Uzis in mind) totally mystifies me.
Anyone still putting there bleeding females in a separate tent these days? Really? No one? So whats wrong with spilling seed? Back when Onan was beating his meat, they needed all the sperm they could get -- there weren't that many people. WE have more than enough, and churches, if they LOVED the world and their fellow humans, and weren't so intent upon increasing their numbers would know this, and would advocate masturbatory practices.
But churches are selfish and venal. And Proud. Proud of their numbers.
I'm into onanistic proclivities due to concupiscence inactivity.
...a little thing a bit too far?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Tent
These kids learned those words from adults as all children learn. Yes most adults don't wont the public to know the truth but as kids do they repeat what they have heard. Each time a child uses a bad word the parent has said that word. To be surpised is a lie these comments were said around the kids and they just repeated them.
Learn from the past. My dad had a hate list,but my mom would not let him pass it on to us kids. Thanks mom.
I'm Asian. I was visiting a friend in Idaho Falls, Idaho. Went to the grocery store. Little old lady came up to me and asked me if she could touch me,
"cause she's never seen one of me before, 'cept on teevee".
Then she poked me with a finger a couple times.
She wasn't embarrassed at all by her ridiculousness. The entitlement, the superiority complex, that creates this insular ethnocentric reality is real and has gone unchallenged in some pockets of America for long enough!
People did that to my son in India. It thought it was strange, but endearing in a way. He knew they meant no harm.
However, someone from America and this old, I'm sure she was being demeaning and insulting.
Sorry about that. Idiot Americans.
When I was a body-builder people wanted to feel my biceps
Although I'm sure some of the ladies would be offended if I reciprocated in kind upon their mammaries.
are adipose tissue and cannot be "built" ( at least not without some sort of "implant"). But I applaud you for holding yourself back... :)
But I know lots of people that think nothing of wanting to touch a pregnant lady's belly.
my brother had a 'fro growing up. He was in the Children's hospital and a black kid was in the bed next to his.
The other kid's 4 and 5 yo siblings kept looking into the curtained area where we were, and we heard one of the kids say "Mamma mamma there's a white boy in there and his hair..."
"Hush up! That's rude" "but no mamma really -- " My dad started laughing and pulled the curtain back to reveal my pallid brother, and the biggest picked out fro on a white boy in 1970 (his hair went of the edges of the school pic).
"Wanna touch it? It's OK." Both the little boy and little girl carefully touched it, then pushed their little fingers into his hair.
"It feels just like Joe's!"
The kids' parents were embarrassed and apologetic, my brother was out of his gourd on morphine, and the rest of us laughed, telling the parents it was OK.
What none of us knew then but I've found out since is that black people often have white people wanting to touch their hair. :)
thanks for sharing that. When I used to wear my hair braided, white people would touch it all the time and play with it. I love a good "white man afro."
Anywho, my son is mixed race, and until he was 4, he had beautiful big springy hair. Now, he was born and raised in Glasgow until we moved this year, and most of the little white Scottish children in his nursery class had never seen afro hair before. They used to play with his hair constantly. They would marvel that it was so springy and they would tell their parents to touch our little one's "bouncy hair" because it was so cool. It was really cute, because they never, ever bothered with the colour of his skin, only that his hair was different. My son now goes to a school with so many kids of different nationalities it's unreal. His best friend this week is a Bulgarian immigrant; a couple of weeks ago it was a British Bangladeshi girl, another time it was a Somali or West Indian kid. The only difference they make is that they have cockney accents and he has a strong Scots one. They all get along.
I agree about the endearing strangeness of such an act. She did not offend me, personally, because there was no animosity. I believe it was innocent.
Your son's and my stories are benign versions of the 'we know not what we do' category of kids chanting something that they may or may not understand. These everyday stories accent how far we have to go to sincerely recognize the diversity of humanity. I'm oddly comforted that these important issues are finally being more openly discussed. Hopefully it's not too late for some of these school bus kids to learn just how evil it is to chant what they chanted.
Thanks for your story.
The US interned many Japanese Americans in Idaho, because it's such a shit hole. You know she meant she'd only see you lot on tv since WWII.
Incredible.
Actually, the Minidoka camp was in south-central Idaho, about a three-hour drive from Idaho Falls. No one in that part of the state saw Japanese internees during the war unless they hired them for sugar-beet work (which did occur).
I think it's somewhat credible that she would actually have believed this, though not entirely. We had Asian kids in our schools when I lived there (our valedictorian was Japanese American), and there were at least some nonwhite faces around town last time I visited. OTOH, if she lived out in the farmlands, well, it's not only plausible but likely.
And FWIW, I very much look forward to spending time with my family at our cabin in Stanley Basin every summer and winter -- not exactly a shithole. Check out the largest wilderness in the Lower 48 just to the north -- absolutely pristine.
The Minidoka sagelands, I agree, are a shithole. But Idaho on the whole is astonishingly beautiful.
and am remarkably poorly travelled in the PNW. I've never went on a Coors run to Post Falls in high school.
The Major Contributing factor that can make the most beautiful place a shithole is the people and their attitudes. I've no doubt that like the rest of the PNW, Idaho is physically and topographically stunning.
The people we hear from the most in Idaho, not so much. Or I could say they too are stunning, but not in a way I would choose.
And of course The Minidoka Sagelands, Tule Lake, Manzanar, Poston, Gila River, Heart Mountain, Topaz, Granada, Rohwer and Jerome were all shitholes, from a human comfort sense. Best place to put people you do not like.
Your description of Idaho sounds a lot like Shoreline in the 60s and 70s -- our little part of the world 'allowed' Asians and Jews [and the was no overt mention of Judiasm], but the 1964 assassination of Edwin Pratt sort of sensitised black people about the north end. That and the big rocks that my closeted KKK neighbours gifted black families through their picture windows.
A member of our hospital staff parents have lived in Burley all of their lives. They and their parents were interned at the Minidoka camp during WWII.
In the small farming community outside Boise a bit, we had Japanese-Americans, Hispanics, and a couple of kids who were Indian (who were for some reason living with some Mormon families).
As my sister said, who is Mormon, these kids heard this from somewhere. And the fact that it's out in the open now and was brought to the attention of the school officials truly says something. The school superintendent has sent out a letter addressing this particular incident and that such incidents will be dealt with and are not acceptable.
I've lived elsewhere and have traveled extensively. I've seen all types - and Idaho doesn't have a lock on shitheads or other evildoers....trust me.
You have hit the nail on the head. What year did this happen?
Why is anybody surprised by this taught hatred in the Right Wing-Nut party??
I my native turf of northeastern Oklahoma, most parents would have probably applauded. Over at Pandagon, they have a story about a small town paper in the are that did not even report that Obama won the election. Did not surprise me a bit.
If I was the bus driver, I would have pulled the bus over right then and there and have given the kiddos a piece of my mind right then and there. Was this done? Why not? Absolutely unacceptable not only for the children to chant this about a future President, but about ANY human being!!! Absolutely shocking.
thank you
I didn't see your earlier post, until after I wrote mine, but you are spot on. I've been around teens cussing around my kids when they were small and I asked them to stop. In all cases, they did. In some cases, an adult who is NOT the parent carries more weight than a parent.
I know that Bus drivers have a hard job, but if the children were late to school for that day, an explanation to the principal would have been accepted and the children would have learned a valuable lesson.
I live in western Idaho and I can tell you it is not much different in this part of the sad state . The state song and this story go together all too well. " HERE WE HAVE IDAHO " kind of says it all .
Furthermore, it was only in 1978 that the LDS changed its policy on permitting Blacks to join them. They have a very dark history of speaking out against Blacks, teaching that as the "sons of Cain" and bearing the mark of Cain, Blacks were tainted with evil:
http://www.exmormon.org/blacks1.htm
I taught school in Challis, Idaho, just north of IF, back in the early 60s, and at that time, membership in a fundamentalist Protestant church was nearly as large as the Mormon population in that town. (Until the pastor ran away in the dead of night with another woman, leaving his wife and six children penniless.)
Not a single Black lived within miles and miles of that town, and one day there was great excitement because a Black family had stopped for gas at the town gas station. Nearly the entire town turned out to see them, since most had never even seen a Black person, certainly among the children.
The point is that Southeastern Idaho has a strong Mormon history of racism, and I'm quite certain that it hasn't died out in families, even if the LDS Church changed its policy 30 years ago.
Yyyep.
I especially like the part where the Prophet had that revelation in the mid-1970s that blacks were OK for the priesthood after all. Guess their Sons of Ham status was honorarily revoked or something.
Have you seen the episodes of House where he mercilessly harasses his young black Mormon intern? I'm howlin', I tell ya.
that liberalism and tolerance is leeking over the state line from my neck of the woods. Driggs and Victor are rapidly changing (it's the cause of some growth problems) and raising your gentile child over there isn't as bad as it used to be.
The church would not allow her to mourn the death of her child. They told her to be happy because her kid was with Jebus. What the hell is he doing with all those kids, anyway?
a 30 yo policy change? You got Mormons still trying to be polygamists. When did they abandon that, as a church? September 24, 1890, wasn't it? And you still have the truly nutted up going off grid to practice it. 30 years? They still hate black people. Still count them as different. That's a change on a piece of paper, not a true change of heart.
This sort of thing just doesn't happen here...
Well they usta torture and hang witches.
Poisoning wells, destroying crops etc. etc....
Funny you should mention that.
Secret covens of witches in our communities poisoning wells and destroying crops...
Secret cells of terrorists in our communities with dirty bombs and chemical weapons...
Okay, maybe not so funny...
should do a little witch hunt of their own in this situation. That would certainly send a strong message to the yahoos in the area.
You must be a google fan.
in Massachusetts?
On the Boston common in 1717 I believe..
And the 20 accusted of witchcraft and executed in Salem in 1692 were Christians, falling victim to the LSD like ergot mold that infected the crops that season.
Did i say i'm glad to be living in 18th century MA?
No I didn't.
I'm glad to live in 21st century MA, where we are a very liberal state, we supported Obama, support gay marriage, produced the Kennedys and the American revolution..
Radical right wing bullsh*t like this wouldn't be tolerated in my state, New York, Vermont, California, or in any other progressive state where intelligent people dwell...
they are kids. and kids say the darndest things. this is in no way an excuse or an apology--but when i was growing up, we'd say stuff just because we were trying to be outlandish. the more outlandish the better. so yeah, this incident could be the result of the hate-filled campaign that mccain ran and/or the hate-filled region in which the incident occurred--or it could be just because they're smart-ass punk kids. rebels without a cause. (or a little bit of all three) But I do think it would be wise to not blow this out of proportion...
Some "outlandish children" grow up with these sick ideas and take their thoughts to universities, corporations, various social settings, etc. To suggest that it's just a phase that doesn't require strong re-education(and definitely at home) simply perpetuates the problem.
You're in denial....and you're not alone.
a little war between you and me...but whatever.
you're clearly off the deep end on this one. you're confusing so many different things in your post that it's difficult to know where to start. "sick ideas" in the corporate setting are profit-driven and so the root of those "sick ideas" are not "chanting children" but the system under which they operate--capitalism.
"sick ideas" in universities are hopefully welcome and open to debate where hopefully a rigorous attention to logic and deep thought are required. "sick ideas" are not problematic in universities--they are, in fact, the topic of much good research and discussion.
and then to your idea that what happened on this bus could be eliminated through "re-education" smacks of the worst kind of dumb talk i've seen in a while. so let me get this straight--you think it's possible to "re-educate" what could very well be just a twisted sense of humor?
it is wrong to compare or even suggest that what these kids did is the same as actually planning to assisinate someone. and while i don't think we should excuse what they did, I think it is naive and a silly waste of time to think that we could stop people (and especially kids) from saying things that we find repugnant through some sort of brave new re-education program.
Bottom line: your "re-education" idea scares me way more than those kids.
So children(persumably going to get an education) chanting that the President be assassinated is only a "twisted sense of humor"?
This country has a long history of violence(assassinations included), racism, and other forms of hate. I hope the real authorities take this matter seriously.
As for "our little war"...No thank you, you carry on. Teachers get paid.
...and what? arrest the kids? is that what you want to do here? have them arrested?
when i said you were off the deep end on this one, I thought I was actually going a little overboard on you. well, my teacher and my republican friend, i think i mis-underestimated you...
I said re-educate because whatever those children are being taught in regards to some of the sad aspects our Nation's history(particularly on the subjects of hate, racism, assassinations, etc.) they need to learn...again and better.
... but it seems these people have no shortage of good advice when it comes to how I should raise my child, insisting on prayers and patriotic rituals as if it were some kind of magic spell to churn out perfect citizens.
Columbine. It is why things in schools are different now from the way they were when I was growing up, or even from when I began teaching 15 years ago.
You wouldn't believe how much has changed in 15 years. 15 years ago if two 4th graders were messing around on the playground and one said "I'm gonna kill you" in the process not one adult or kid would bat an eye. Now if you overhear that statement it is paperwork, a parent meeting with administration and an 'action plan' to make sure the student knows the consequences of such statements. Then a follow-up two months later to make sure the kid's behavior is nothing outside of the norm. 15 years ago if a HS student was pissed at his grade on the math test and wrote a note to his friend in science class complaining about how the teacher was unfair and said he feels like "kicking that teacher's ass" it would have been a detention for passing notes in the class. Now it is an automatic 10 day suspension for threatening an adult. No appeals. Any further threatening language from that student directed towards ANYONE is automatic recommendation for expulsion.
No, my friend. Schools are not the same and those "darndest things" they say aren't either.
refuting what I said or supporting it. Because you describe a VERY paranoid society--one in which control is maintained through fear. fear of kids, fear of someone saying the wrong thing, an over-obsession with correctness. Sounds like the kind of society i'm cautioning against.
columbine and other examples are horrific--but the solution to these still very rare incidents (crimes committed by children have been on the decline, not on the rise) is not to become paranoid and thereby susceptible to State-control, but to: (1) outlaw guns and gun manufacturing; (2) increase funding to mental health; and (3) not give in to the temptation to arrest/punish anyone who says something we may disagree with. Someday, the person we disagree with may be you...
Now obviously, actual threats have to be followed up and punished where appropriate...but
Short of locking everybody up, it is nearly impossible, if not impossible, to stop all crazy people from doing crazy things...
We've got Gitmo, wire-tapping, dismantling of the constitution, sweeping views of Arabs & Muslims as terrorists, indifference to the plight of (mostly) African Americans caught in Katrina, adults screaming 'terrorist' and 'kill him', unchecked, at McCain/Palin rallies, Plumber Joes, etc, etc. I tell ya; larned ignorance is the root of Evil!
every single last one
send the kids to orphanages
fuck em...fuck em all
You sound like a republican prowling for pages.
When I was a kid growing up we sure did have those kids who just didn't care about school or doing well. They had no ambition and were happy to be their parents - stuck in dead end jobs, too many kids, and essentially unhappy with their lives - it was their fate and they knew it, but at least they were popular now. But that was only a handful. Most of us were going to college to be something. I can't actually remember a time in my life when it wasn't an assumed part of my future that I would go to college. My mother mentioned it once and I looked at her like she had three heads. I couldn't wrap my brain around it. But now it seems that people are proud of their ignorance and lack of curiosity. I'm not that old - when and how did this happen?
... that it's a kneejerk response to an increasingly more complex world. Or it's societal.
It's hard to tell, because when I grew up, education was the be-all end-all. Mom had us enrolling in summer reading programs at the public library before they were a big thing. Education was what was going to make a future possible. And yet, there was the crowd in high school who hated the 'brainy Asian crowd' because we always 'threw off the curve,' meaning they had to work harder for their grades.
Even now, I have more books than I know what to do with, on subjects that are of remote interest, but nonetheless important in a meaningful dialogue in today's world.
But it's not just the conservative religious crowd we're talking about. Back when Obama voted for the 'new, improved' version of FISA, I joined one of the grassroots groups. Someone asked 'what should we read' ... and I fired off a list of books on privacy, security, cryptography ... and NO ONE SAID A DAMNED THING. Not even, "Hey, I need to go read that."
Dead fucking silence. The group was all about Facebook and blogging and making YouTube videos and banners. All effective and important, no doubt, but every bit as intellectually incurious as a certain Alaskan governor.
My question is WTF was the busdriver doing during all this? As being the only responsible adult on the bus, he or she should have stopped the bus IMMEDIATELY and set these kids straight.
It isn't the ones who talk about doing it that you have to worry about. Duh.
I would hope that we as a society don't dismiss such issues because they fall short of action. Hatred and intolerance is bigger and more pervasive than the act of assassinating someone; it resides in the hearts and minds of human beings- and begins at an early age. Please let's not give such behaviors a 'pass', just because no one is actualy getting shot. We SHOULD, as civilized people worry about the 'talk' as well.
Because if we allow it to pass without comment, we'll someday be sitting here asking, "Why didn't anyone DO anything?!?!?!" after the little darling has grown into a surly, teenaged white supremacist with his head full of End Times crapola and decided he needed to clean out the local shopping mall.
What would you recomend?
Round them up and arrest them?
Purdue university is haveing a coming together about an incedent on thire campus, is that the answer?
I'd start with an American history lesson, perhaps. We've had presidents and spiritual leaders assassinated before. Heck, even Ford and Reagan were targets.
For that matter, Christ was effectively tortured and killed by the state, so if the town is as brimming with religious fervor as it seems, some humility and remembering Christ's experience is called for.
Or maybe we need to remind them that the original assassins were a bunch of Islamic terrorists ...
There's another person in denial, a few posts above, who actually thinks that this hate is merely growing pains.
Quite a few people apparently slept through their history classes.
you and I know it.
I have one in grade school and one in middle school, Before they went to school the day after the election, they both said, everybody at school says he will be shot, What are you supposed to do? That is about as "grass roots" as it gets.
Case in point, a lesbian couple I know had their rainbow AND American flags defaced six times over the course of a month. Someone saw fit to walk by, throw coffee and/or motor oil at 'em.
Far too many nutjobs commented on the local paper's website, citing the Bible, claiming patriotism, saying 'they asked for it!' and so on.
Religious-backed hatred is a very serious and real problem in this country. That it's happening to 'other people' should be a sign that it's time to stop ignoring it. We're all 'someone else' in the end.
as a kid of maby 12 or so i was walking back home from a movie with two of my friends , back in thoes days the blacks lived in a seperate secon of town guess youd say a getto , anyway at that time i was fairly chunky and not a very fast runner, so my two ahem friends saw fou black kids half a block down the street and started calling them the n words , then they took off running leaveing me to get my ass kicked some friends, anyway these black kids reached me and said what did you call us ? i said i never called you anything , it was the other two guys, i said my mother taught me better then that and i said look at me do i look like i can run fast! they laughed and took off after the guys who did it, lucky for me they understood the truth , cretainly it could have gone the other way and they could have taken out on me, now i dont judge a man on his color but his actions towards me, ive been allmost murdered by a black guy with a switch blade only because hed had an altercation with another white guy on the job and he took it out on me, ive seen in combat a few cowards white and black ive had black guys and white guys id trust with my life , and i dont believe white or black makes a man any smarter then any other or more trustworthy!
holy crap. where was the bus driver during all this? we werent allowed to mock chant the latest hall and oats song, if our thoughts were even able to get above a whisper, let alone talk about killing someone. the driver should be fired immediately.
did i just date myself..? :/
Here's the bus driver the little pukes should have:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSu3k4-r37A
I think all that really needs to be done here is for the news media to make this into an international news story. Then everyone around the world will find out what kind of backwater shitholes still exist in America. These people will then be forced to join the rest of the world in the 21st century.
Retarded inbreeds? Maybe that's the problem people aren't moving around enough allowing interbreeding and marrying cousins. We should spread them out a bit, give em a new set of genes to mutate into retard.
Seriously, I bet it's the liberal media that has total control of the TV and internet, putting these ideas into the children................
I moved to Idaho Falls in 1977 when I was nine years old from Washington D.C.
I wound up in the most Mormon School District where I attended Ammon Elementary and Bonneville Jr. and Sr. High til my senior year, when I moved to Pocatello and the Philadelphia.
I have to say it was the most unpleasant part of my entire life. My family was not Mormon so therefore I was not really allowed to socialize with the mormon kids. Not only that , but they were big strong cowboy farm kids who liked to beat up us jewish city slickers. (I lived by all of the farms in the 1970's).
The kids on the school busses were the worst- ruthless. They were always chanting hate songs at somebody, that was the daily ritual.
I also disliked my high school a lot, as the Mormon Seminary was near yards from the entrance of the school, and in my day, they gave school credit for a class called "Religion" or "Religious Studies" for a class taught by a Mormon Teacher on the Mormon's payroll. I was always wondering exactly what these Mormon teacher were teaching about other religions. Since we now have the internet it is really easy to find out these days- so I did: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon278.htm
It is undeniable- the Mormon church teaches hate to children. And there is a very blurry line in the educational systems in Idaho and Utah.
Personally, I think the first steps towards teaching children to be tolerant of others (and perhaps, gasp, even loving them) is to take away the Mormon Church's power at the schools.
Bonneville High School in Idaho Falls is a disgrace. The seminary is a decent-sized building about 150 feet from the main campus buildings doors. There is a concrete walkway connecting across a small lawn.
The school was being built when I lived there and I attended in 1983-84. I would love to know why, and more importantly, how the Mormon church is able to legally do this?
I know it is based on a Supreme Court ruling concerning freedom of religion, but I have never seen a public school with a seminary so close to it.
As for the Mormon's stance concerning Prop 8 here in California, it is clear that the church teachings are wrong concerning homosexuality , it has been proven psychologically, morally, and most importantly, scientifically, and should not be taught anywhere near a public school.
This story showed me that nothing has changed in the 22 years since I left that place.
It's sad to say, but in a way I am kind of glad that Prop 8 didn't pass here because it is drawing so much attention to the Mormon Church and it's discriminatory stance.
The Mormons seem to forget that that same law that protects their right to have their religion also protects EVERYONE from discrimination and Prop 8 will be overturned in court anyway, while completely damaging the reputation of the church.
Good luck up there in Idaho!
This part of Idaho gives the state a bad name. I live in Boise, which is nothing like SE Idaho. The reason why Idaho is so red is greatly due to the 90% LDS population in SE Idaho. In Boise, we have a democratic mayor and our county is only slightly red. Also, in case anyone missed it, one of our 2 representatives in the the House is now a Democrat. Idaho is not that bad in all parts!
... these racist, sexist, violent, Bible-thumping thugs their own little slice of land. They could secede from the U.S. and call their holy patch of heaven Jesusland or something.
I'm sick of them.
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