Fed-Up Farm Workers Team Up With Colbert: Want Our Jobs? Come Take 'Em
Yesterday the United Farm Workers (UFW) launched the “Take Our Jobs” campaign, a bold effort to highlight the importance of immigrant workers to our food supply -- and the difficulties agricultural employers have in maintaining a stable, legal workforce. As UFW points out on their campaign website, “We are a nation in denial about our food supply."
During a news conference yesterday, UFW President Arturo Rodriguez argued:
Farm workers do the work that most Americans are not willing to do. Our current labor force is comprised of professional farm workers who possess essential skills needed to maintain the viability of the agricultural industry. But our nation’s struggling economy has fueled an increasingly ugly debate on immigration policy and many Americans believe that undocumented farm workers are taking jobs from our citizens and legal residents.
Either Congress acts to bring a solution, or we will continue to see our food production move to other countries. The United States depends on these farms and farm workers for food.
A statement by the union explains further:
County Supervisor Rubio, who represents the second largest agricultural county in the nation, said the industry is utterly dependent on a foreign-born workforce. And even with double digit unemployment rates, few legal residents are seeking jobs on the farm, he said.
According to Marisa Treviño at Latina Lista:
In a letter to U.S. lawmakers, UFW offers farm workers who are "ready to train citizens and legal residents who wish to replace immigrants in the fields," and encourages Members of Congress to refer their constituents to vacant farm worker positions.
While immigrant farm workers are the backbone of United States agriculture, many of these workers have no way to normalize their immigration status – they often live in fear of exploitation and deportation. These workers and their advocates have been asking Congress for years to fix what most everyone agrees is an outdated, ineffective, and inhumane immigration system.
Now, hoping to push Congress to pass what’s known as “AgJobs” legislation, the UFW’s “Take Our Jobs” campaign is a creative attempt to break through the right-wing media narrative that immigrants take jobs from American workers instead of contributing to the U.S. economy and U.S. food security.
So far, people in the agriculture industry appear skeptical that many unemployed Americans will sign up for the farm work, given the strenuous conditions, need to relocate one's family, and low pay. The Silicon Valley Mercury News reports:
Salinas farm labor contractor Paul Powell had not heard about the "Take Our Jobs" campaign Wednesday, but said he doubted that most unemployed Californians would be up to the challenge.
"There may be a lot of folks who show up and don’t stay for more than a day or two," Powell said. "They don’t realize how hard the work is. Field work is not easy."
Manuel Cunha, president of the Fresno-based Nisei Farmers League, sarcastically remarked:
Come out here and climb the ladder, pick tomatoes, and oh, by the way, you’ve got to prune, and oh, by the way, it’s seasonal work so you have to move all over the place.
It seems that the UFW has set up a win-win situation. If it turns out that Americans do take them up on the offer, kudos to them for helping jobless Americans find work and gain skills. If native-born Americans balk and refuse to sign up, lawmakers will have a hard time opposing AgJobs legislation with the claim that immigrants are “stealing American jobs.”
The offer itself should serve to highlight the hypocrisy of anti-reform politicians who continue to scapegoat vulnerable populations whose labor fuels our economy and feeds our country, instead of reforming our nation's dysfunctional immigration laws.
Even better, UFW has announced a July 8th appearance on the Colbert Report -- stay tuned.
Time to start calling out conservative politicians on their desire to have their cake and eat it too.
Talking out of both sides of the mouth is a net positive for them. Ideological consistency is when they run into problems.
This is BS... There is an illegal way of gaining citizenship and that is the process they should use..
Both parties are using the immigration process as an advantage for them.. The democrats are just concern about the votes and the republicans are concern about cheap labor for more profits..
Everything else is BS>..
Before you think about the Large farms which we gives welfare checks to every year even when they make a healthy profit. One think I believe their property tax should be very low if any and they should grow crops even when they are paid not to and give it to public food banks for the needy...
The Immigrant workers are taking Construction jobs which are let.
They are doing lawn service and so have started their own business.
They have taken over the jobs in the carry out food industry.. and on production lines also.
They are taking union jobs and this is why ,,what has not been outsourced,, or foreign citizens given work visa to come into our country and take the others have destroy the power and control of workers and their unions...
They are taking "all" of American jobs except the jobs which are related to professional which is coming soon.. This is because they work cheaper and give the businesses the opportunity to cut salaries... Look at the jobs in which foreign citizens are coming into this country with a work visa and taking the professional jobs... Foreign citizens are taking over 20 percent of our college slots for their education..
The Republicans want these workers in this country for cheap labor and more profit,, and Emanuel with his group of democrats which control the democratic party for their VOTES , once they give them citizenship..
What other country would allow illegal immigrants to come into their country as they wish , give them jobs , social services while slapping their own citizens in the face..
Why is it that ALL products made in this country have increased by leaps and bounds , while salaries have and benefits have been going down..
No this is a corporate takeover of our country and all the talk is BS in-between the lines..
None
But I think they make it sound far too healthy. Not to mention the other abuses.
Put the teabaggers to work picking strawberries in the summer sun for $7/hr and see how long they last.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
Everyone knows teabaggers don't work. They're to busy attending KKK meetings screaming socialism while collecting socialist payments from the government.
is intended to be a factual statement
No, baby. They don't make $7 an hour. That's way above minimum wage. Farm workers are lucky if they make as much as $5 an hour.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
so if a teabagger actually did pick strawberries, I think they'd make less than 5. It's really a skilled job, if you're talkin speed
me-oww!
thing as a 40 hour work week. Farm workers are exempt from overtime pay for work over 40 hours/week.
In WA they can make better wages, ~7 sounds about right.
wages are so low is because of the illegal workforce. I'm sorry, but there are more than enough American citizens willing to work on farms and this didn't make me particularly sympathetic to the cause. It is not a fair question to ask people to become slaves, although many Americans would be willing to do it if they could.
Agricultural, in general, needs serious reform. That includes eliminating the slave labor.
.. food prices would skyrocket. Simple fact of life.
And then how do the rest of the working poor afford to eat?
It's a Gordian Knot, isn't it?
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
http://crooksandliars.com/comment/permalink/1...
Also for posting what you just did, you will now be considered a slavery and BigAg apologist/supporting/loving America hater too...Now I have company.
me-oww!
Fact, Australia allows zero guest labour. Sure tourists and others are allowed to work in rural areas but that do so at full award rates with full labour protection. Yet Australia still manages to export to the US, so add the cost of transport on top of reasonable wages and all you have is lower profit margins. Food is a global commodity set by supply and demand, labour rates do not raise the price of food, they simply lower the profit margin but sure suck up the right wing lies they feed gullible idiots.
"Willing to work on farms"?? Really? Then WHY DON'T THEY?
It's not like those jobs are all taken. You can go sign up any day of the week. But the vast majority of those who whine about "illegals" wouldn't be caught DEAD doing back-breaking labor in the hot sun for a pittance. And if you think that Big Ag is EVER going to pay a decent wage for this work, you're clearly not understanding food economy.
Thanks for the laugh. I needed it.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
The 1960s Elmore Leonard book and the movie with Charles Bronson can provide a little orientation to what ag workers face. The UFW is being very clever here. Good move.
Let's see if Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona recommends unemployed Arizonans apply for farm work. I'm not sure what they grow in the state though. Maybe the cactus needs trimming.
"By words the mind is winged." - Aristophanes
One said the onions were the worst, b/c everybody thoroughly smelled like onions for the duration.
It's backbreaking work, literally. The 'Baggers will regret this when the reality comes home to roost.
It's a great idea. "Pick, baby, pick!" will bear the same fruit as their "Drill, baby, drill!" campaign.
You'da thought there were fewer fools in the world--but there weren't.
Why would they endeavor to improve tech related to agriculture when all we are talking about are slaves? There is no motivation whatsoever. Force them to hire American citizens and you will behold miraculous leaps in every industry relating to agriculture.
I live just north of the Salinas Valley. Lots of strawberry fields and cherry orchards. Those need to be picked by hand to avoid damaging the fruit. Same goes for many crops. Combines are great for grains and corn, not so good for tomatoes.
Unfortunately, many of the people who comment about ag related issues have no idea of what's actually required to produce food.
For years now, whenever I see or hear some wingnut asshole whining about how immigrants "steal jobs", my standard answer has been "Oh yeah? What jobs are those? You wanna go pick strawberries for $2 an hour? Scrub out toilets? Stand on a street corner in hopes of making $30 a day for reaming out pipes?"
They NEVER reply.
Kudos to the UFW for finally giving those shitheads a chance to put up or shut up.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
agreed. nice job, UFW!
Untrue! John McCain famously replied and said that Americans would NEVER pick fruit for 25$ an hour.
and as it turned out, the bastard was lying (surprise, surprise). Never ever trust a lying thieving murderous carpet-bagging nut-sucking Republican ...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
That job where they are paying a slave 2 dollars an hour is the same as the minimum+ wage job for an American. What you don't seem to understand is that the money exists, but at this moment it goes into the profit margin of the food processors instead of an individual American citizen.
Oh and ask what construction workers think about the slave force. It is standard procedure for illegal immigrants to build 99% of a structure, have the sheriff come out and demand that qualified people come out to finish and approve it.
Slavery implies ownership of another person. The farm workers have a union, legal defense teams, and more advocacy groups than you can shake a stick at. Yes, the do a very hard job for little pay, but they are not slaves. Stop using hyperbole, it weakens your argument.
I work in construction. You are utterly wrong. Yeah, illegals work for the contractors, but they are union members for the most part. Building inspectors show up for all phases of the job, from digging out the foundation to painting the curb numbers. I cover seven counties, and none of them have the sheriff's office doing building inspections.
it does weaken their argument , slaves and then again how many of use are slaves ? .
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
Ah yes, the "I don't see it, therefore it never happens anywhere" dodge. Sorry, dude, won't work.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Where'd you get that? I understand the economic principles just fine. THAT'S WHY I MAKE THAT ARGUMENT. If we were paying for citizens to do this work, we'd be paying $10 a pound for strawberries, just like we'd be paying $20 a pound for beef. But try telling that to the immigrant-hating wingnuts, who happily enjoy the product of immigrant labor but spew their venom on the people who actually bring it to them.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
The longer one was during the tomato harvest near Dixon, CA, west of Sacramento. I did equipment maintenance on harvesters, usually from 6 in the evening to 6 in the morning. It would be 13 days straight for 12 hours a day. You got overtime after 10 hours. The owner made sure you did not work the 14th day so he did not have to pay double overtime for 2 days in that time period. I made minimum wage for what I did. The farm workers riding on the sides of the havesting machines got less than $4/hr. Agricultural labor traditionally has been less than minimum wage.
Working 13 days straight is damn tough and I admired the folks who stood on the sides of the harvesters, throwing out the junk (sometimes rats and snakes) that came up the havester belts. I did that during the equipment shakedown before the harvest really got started and you are doing nothing but looking at thousand of tomatoes go by, throwing the junk over the side. You don't know even where you are at in the field as the rows could be a half a mile in length. I know few gringos would ever want to do this work let alone encourage their children to do so. And don't get me started on agricultural chemicals. The UFW is doing the smart thing.
Back in grad. school, I hauled the tomatoes that those harvesters loaded. While my job was stressful (16 hour shifts, every 8th day off), it was a cake walk compared to what I watched the folks on the harvesters doing. Many of them were teenage girls and old women, but they were much tougher than I could even dream of being. I'm glad they didn't know what I was making (over $1500/wk) since they were getting less than minimum wage. I also had an air-conditioned truck and free housing. We hauled tomatoes from farms of all sizes. Interestingly, you could always tell when the farm owner was driving a tractor because it had an enclosed, dust-free air-conditioned driver compartment.
Whether gringos would take these jobs or not, it should not be legal to pay such low wages. If Americans knew the suffering that goes into their food, they wouldn't eat so damned much.
merakins new da suffering dat goes in2 der food , dey wont eat so much .
FAT CHANCE
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
Yeah, sounds like a quote from someone who's never heard some douchebag berate a vegetarian/vegan for their ethical choices.
I apologize for my foray into an ethical fantasy world. We now resume our regular programming.
I guess if Americans can look at the gulf oil disaster and wars for oil and still get into their cars they're not going to be put off by a little (or lot of) suffering by folks whose skin is brown.
service what hit me the most was the excess and waste that I saw all around me. It was a culture shock coming back here.
Coming back from Somalia after Restore Hope. I still get pissed at huge restaurant portions.
So the argument is that since Americans won't accept third world wages and working conditions that we should import third worlders who will so Big Ag can exploit them and stay profitable. Pretty weak.
I assume you are ready to pay more for your food which great! As for not doing the work because of the low wages, the work would probably wear most people out in the first few hours. If you don't believe me go give it try.
Nope. There isn't any reason why we would have to. There is major profit in agriculture in America, the problem is that it DOESN'T GO TO SLAVES. Why would it?
"If you don't believe me go give it try"
I have and lots of others have. You act like hard labor is something Americans have never seen before in their lives. The reason agriculture and construction are dominated by slaves is because it doesn't absolutely require a high level of education to get the job done. It requires a functioning body that can withstand the elements.
You sound very experienced.
Foolish, or incredibly naive. If the cost of labor goes up, the cost of food production goes up. Do you seriously think that ag business will simply absorb that added cost and quietly cut their profits? No, they'll pass those costs on to customers.
I always find it interesting that there are people that will insist unions are bad because those union wages drive up costs, while at the same time not recognizing our food costs are kept down by the use of unskilled immigrants - legal and illegal - who are willing to work for half the normal rate?
The idea that if immigrants would go away wages would have to be increased and Americans would take the jobs is ludicrous.
A "broken" immigration system is a back-door government subsidy to agriculture. No one in their right mind would seek out that line of work the moment they obtain legal residency. Farmers would have to start paying American wages and competing against imports.
Point isn't that "we should import third worlders", that's already happening, 'cuz 'Mericans are too "proud" to harvest food. Point is that hypocrisy has no bounds, and no American wants to do the job the illegals are doing FOR US.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" - Red Green
Freedom Ain't Free - Pay Your Share
YES THEY DO. The slave force IS taking jobs away from American citizens, and degrading the working conditions in the sectors they dominate.
get out there and start picking then.
Do you have any idea the backbreaking labour that goes into picking produce? How much do you think an apple will cost if US citizens who want iPods and 3 kids and flat screen teevees start picking and demand a living wage? Remember, certain small farms are exempt from the minimum wage and overtime requirements of the FLSA. Workers engaged in agricultural employment (as defined by the FLSA) are exempt from the overtime requirements. You'll be working 10/6. Enjoy your exciting new career!!
Or get a landscaping job. As someone who has worked with US citizens and immigrants, I'll give you a hint as to who, in almost all cases, is most willing to work, who will show up to work on time every day and will do the cleanest best job. It isn't the US citizen.
me-oww!
As I have detailed elsewhere, get rid of the slaves and every related sector will vastly improve in every way with regards to working conditions.
As far as trying to convince people that produce will shoot through the roof...nope. Produce is extremely profitable. The money is already there to pay citizens ready to work. Right now it is being kept by the food processors. They will not let that money go unless you FORCE THEM TO.
As far as slaves... yes. I am sure that there are plenty of people who are so desperate as to willingly become them and accept the conditions they would have to work in. American citizens aren't liable to put up with that kind of crap though, although plenty are.
All you are campaigning for here is in the name of defending actual human slavery in America. That is what this comes down to.
Americans won't pick produce.
me-oww!
They have all through American history. Think about the families where they had like ten and twelve children just to help them. More over, people in this thread have talked about their experience picking.
Not to mention, not to mention, that more and more people are growing their own crops to live on in the suburbs.
they can't make the money, they wouldn't like the housing, they won't take the kids around...part of that culture is you have more than 2 people in a group picking in order to support the group. You may get a few, but you certainly won't get the numbers needed. Nor will you get the productivity, the compliance. This culture is fat lazy, entitled and allergic to back-breaking work.
me-oww!
Ah.
You thoroughly hate America and everything it stands for. That is what I guessed. Continue calling America and its work force every name you can think of. Agricultural reform is coming, an end to slavery and child labor is imminent.
Accept it.
apologist/shill. Agricultural reform? WTF is that?
if you are being sarcastic. Sad times.
jesus fucking christ.
me-oww!
Gazenthia one. I am also asking what he or she means by the term agricultural reform. The way it was used seemed to be something sinister. I wanted clarification. I would never accuse you of anything like that. I see where your heart is.
I thought you'd been around to see me go after their PR guy...
http://crooksandliars.com/nonny-mouse/gm-or-n...
me-oww!
Agricultural Reform: Elimination of child and slave labor. Introduction and enforcement of reasonable wages, safety standards, and improved agricultural techniques and tools/vehicles.
We also need to make sure that fertilizer is kept out of rivers, and sent to the farms that need it. Among other things.
By the way, I am an outspoken critic of Monsanto. Where did you get the idea that what I was talking about was sinister?
and you picked a fucking fight with me over nothing.
Let's stop monoculture too.
me-oww!
because unlike you, she KNOWS me and my opinions.
me-oww!
you're wrong on just about everything. I thought Ag reform was coming through decades ago. What are you? 25?
And don't tell me what to do.
me-oww!
The American workforce is completely incapable of doing heavy labor, we have no idea what that is. We are also all fat and lazy. We would die without our slaves.
as you sarcastically answered you are, you probably need to be around a bit longer to be able to read people more accurately.
I'm still waiting for your proof that I support and offer apologia for big ag and slavery...Accuracy in accusations is another thing that becomes more easy with age.
me-oww!
It's elsewhere in this thread. The problem here lies with your inability to realize that your absolutely ridiculous anti-America claims ARE pro big-AG and slavery.
Any business (steel for example) forced to comply with reasonable standards argue the same points that you have all through this thread. They survived somehow.
listing facts is just that. It's not offering an opinion
where did you answer?
Oh I found it. "Read your own replies"
America STANDS for big business, BigAg. Corporations are people. Banks get bailed out while unemployment benefits are cut off. Is it anti- American for me to state well-known facts about this country? When you call someone out and they ask for specifics, read what you wrote isn't a 'specific.'
"Read your own replies" Clev-er. You're quite the debater, all ready with proof and shit. What a time waster.
me-oww!
When this country started industrializing more quickly in the first half of the last century, Americans pickers started leaving the fields and orchards for the better paying jobs in the mills, foundries and production lines. First the white people went (racism in the hiring practices, ya know), then the African-Americans, who had taken the whites old picking jobs...then the Mexicans and other Central Americans took over the picking jobs.
It's not that it's just hard work, it's migrant labor. Pickers have no real homes. They just move from one farm to another, depending on what's in season. It's not a way to raise kids, living on poverty wages and moving from state to state every few months. Do you think there are traveling teachers that move from state to state with migrant workers, legal or illegal?
This is why Americans won't do these jobs that they're fully capable of doing.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
you say it more elegantly than I do, Andy K
me-oww!
???
Many, many jobs require us to uproot our families and travel across the country, if not the globe. Take a good long look at our military, businessmen, and so on.
The difference here is the PAY and the SAFETY. Both of which would have to improve, and can improve, once big agri has no other choice. I.E remove the slave force.
The only real point you touched on was that white farmers left to HIGHER PAYING JOBS.
you are so off about me and who I am, I figure pretty much everything you say that I don't know to be a fact is not correct.
me-oww!
We're talking about seasonal workers- pickers. Not the traditional big families you talked about up-thread, but the extra 10 or 20 or 30 people that those families needed to hire for a couple of weeks to get the fruit and veggies off of the vine or branch before the produce went bad. Even big, traditional farm families can't accomplish this without help for a few weeks.
Look, no one- NO ONE- on this thread disagrees that pickers are exploited, and should get both a better wage and working/living conditions (and remember that when pickers sign on, their housing- if not their meals- are paid for by those who hire them), but that even poorer Americans aren't about to live that lifestyle, moving every couple of weeks, especially if they have children. That's a pretty shabby comparison to businessmen and soldiers whose families are at home, the children receiving educations and health care benefits.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
He also seems to be arguing that the UFW is trying to HELP BigAg.
That would suggest that by doing so on this thread, he's not so secretly trying to protect BigAg from unionized workers.
This is a typical conservative trick to defeat any unionism in this country. It was their loss under ray gunn that has contributed to wages being stagnant for close to 30 years now, so we can't afford food, unless it's provided by low-wage, no benefit workers, and even then, because of BigAgs subsidies on such items as corn, and the attendant high fructose corn syrup that goes into all baking goods, driving up the cost of baked goods, as well as that of meats from animals that depended on corn as a food source.
Don't get me started on the lack of regulation concerning food safety in our country now.
So frankly the solution isn't attacking a system of low wage workers, but attacking the corporate farming that hired them, and drove out the family farm by out-competing them, or patenting essential seeds. Then the corporate farms turn around and bribe Congress for more subsidies.
The tactic proposed is more similar to the War on Drugs where we attack the user or the neighborhood pusher, rather than the cartels behind them. It hasn't destroyed those cartels yet either after thirty years of trying. And has created our current industrial incarceration system as well for the for profit corporations.
Sorry if I'm incoherent tonight, but I've been drinking.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I grew up farming (after males kept dying) and near mining country. People worked small farms and/or mined or worked in mills a little farther south. My mother (in her 80th year) still grows her own food. Working a small farm is bloody hard, but people will do this.
Did young people leave mining/farming for better jobs. Sure. What were the better jobs? Manufacturing. What made them better? Unions. Unions mines are still better. Farm unions didn't get as much traction since the labor was brought in and replaced! When labor can be replaced, they will get treated like crap.
If you compare a current southern non-union chicken processing plant to current migrant farm labor, both suck. Manufacturing jobs in early industrialization, pre-union eras were every bit as low paying and dangerous as farming. We return to this now. The way they killed union manufacturing was to move the jobs off to a place where workers had no rights.
The reason these jobs suck, is that the labor force is a modern version of indentured servitude.
Here's the secret to why we have to reform it. What if no one wants to farm, mine, manufacture or be the butcher? Let's say very one sends their kid to school to be a lawyer, doctor or banker. Great. Who's growing the food, cutting it up, mining the raw materials and making our shit if everyone is a white-collar professional? Our economic system is not sustainable with out a fresh underclass every generation. Right now we're too top heavy. Our young people have great college educations, and no frigging jobs.
Migrant pickers are what put a lot of the small farmers out of business. It's bad. First they were slaves, then freed slaves with no choice. Now it's people with no rights. It needs to stop. People will farm. The paradigm that we can't farm without migrant labor is flawed, unsustainable agriculturally and socially, and IMHO immoral.
Maybe, until it's buried in bizarre accusations about me.
me-oww!
Looks like you're an apologist for big ag and slavery too, Andy, because you disagree with our Gazza here.
me-oww!
your just picking on him
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
With the basics, anyway.
Look, Gazenthia, when down-thread you tried to brush off m_k's comparison to WalMart, you opened yourself up to the same kind of flaming that you're using. WalMart does its damnedest to squeeze every minute from its workers to the point just before those workers become full time employees. This saves WalMart a shit-ton of money they don't have to pay out in bennies and unemployment insurance.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Especially when one considers Walmart didn't provide benefits for workers until at least fairly recently, if at all, but instead offered them training on how to apply for Uncle Suckahs aid.
And Uncle Suckah is supposed to be a SOCIAL safety net, not a CORPORATE safety net.
And to tie it into the subject of the thread, Walmart is hostile to Unions too.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Yeah that part is odd. >.>
When I go back to work Monday delivering construction materials, which means hauling hundreds of kg of material off my truck by hand, spending 8-10 hours on the road, and not getting a break because I need to keep driving to make all my deliveries before the sites close, I'll be sure to remember that I'm "fat lazy, entitled and allergic to back-breaking work."
Go away. Seriously. I'd use harsher language but I like my account here.
so don't get your knickers in a twist. I'm talking about your run of the mill American who won't do hard labour. And I'll bet you get more money for your work than less tahn minimum, and overtime to boot.
I was responding to a poster who thinks Americans would jump at the chance to do hard labour for less than minimum wage, work 60 hours or so a week w/ no OT, live in squalid conditions and drag their kids around at the same time.
Go away yourself. You're a bit too thin-skinned for the internet if you think what I said was directed at you.
me-oww!
I tend to agree with you. My maternal uncle was a truck driver, my maternal grandparents were farmers who worked in a Tysons chicken plant in Arkansas. They were basically subsistence farmers, but still couldn't make ends meet.
The idea of the fat and lazy American seems to be an inversion of the old stereotype, where Mexicans were seen as always taking siestas and we were the ones with the "Protestant Work Ethic" How is this new stereotype any better?
However, even if we were willing to work on farms, how many of us live anywhere near them?
But I agree, in general, Americans do have an sense of entitlement, we want a livable wage and reasonable conditions, thus the need for farm unions.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You can have all the farm unions you want in the world, and you'll still have federal law that says "Certain small farms are exempt from the minimum wage and overtime requirements of the FLSA. Workers engaged in agricultural employment (as defined by the FLSA) are exempt from the overtime requirements," and you'll have the slave wage situation you have now, if I may say so again, w/o being accused of being an American-hating, BigAg and slavery-supporting insulter of Tau Ceti and his fabulous work ethic. They won't give that up. We can't get health care. Farmers have a very powerful lobby.
And MOST Americans won't work that hard for nothing.
me-oww!
That's why I say BigAg has to be broken up. They've already reached the point of being too big to fail, and transnational in scope, unregulated by all.
But since they might've been broken up on different comments here what I think;
Unions need to be strengthened across the board.
Migrant workers ought to be invited into farming unions, otherwise they're competitors.
Government subsidies for BigAg should be ended
Government subsidies for healthier foods should be introduced.
Government subsidies should be introduced so smaller farmers can comply with the FLSA.
I'm sure I got other ideas, but they're lost in an alcoholic fog.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
is it a deep thick fog or just a hazy one ?
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRwURvCqSOk
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Fri, 06/25/2010 - 20:18 — Gazenthia
That would cause more of a technology boom, than a jobs boom for citizens, creating more of the same of what we have now, products too expensive for the average American to buy, because of low income, and the unsold goods, instead of going to food banks, going to overseas market for sales there.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It would be remiss of me not to mention that BigAg, not illegal workers, has a hand of the malnourishing of Americans as well, by getting subsidies, for the food products we don't need to maintain health with the emphasis on meat and sweets, whilst fruits and vegetables get no such subsidies (and they're the one that tend to go heavy on the illegal immigrant labor), thus increasing our medical costs exponentially with cardiovascular diseases, diabetes etc.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
BS
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
And so that we can have a food supply, but you're partially correct.
Yes, guest workers are absolutely essential to our country.
I guarantee you that people will line up around the building to take these jobs if they pay at least minimum wage.
and will not.
me-oww!
if you REMOVE THE SLAVES.
END the SLAVERY in America.
they won't. The US people that go for it will get the same deal as migrants. Full Stop. Do you think a govt that would make that exemption, not give its citizens universal health care, intercept communications, put the tax burden on the middle class while excusing the rich from paying their fair share, even after death, would lift that exemption?
Pretty naive.
me-oww!
as long as the slaves remain. I don't know how many times I have to keep saying this. Noboday cares about slaves, slaves don't hold any power, they don't have a face to society.
Get citizens back into the workforce and things WILL change.
corporations and you will see that the coming crisis, that where the unemployed and underemployed do not make enough money to owe any income taxes and cannot buy enough goods to pay sales tax, causes the middle class to collapse and then who will fund the government? Not the rich or the corporations. They are killing the golden goose.
they are carving that last golden egg out of the living golden goose.
When civilization collapses due to their unmoderated greed, they will have Blackwater/Xe and Talon Security to protect them ... but where will they get their foodstuffs, from those fortified farms like in "Soylent Green"? Perhaps it is time to send all the truly wealthy "home" and collect 200$ ...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
They will if you REGULATE THE INDUSTRY.
When will you people get it through your heads that corporate industry will NEVER EVER do right either by its workers or its clients unless it is FORCED TO DO SO by a responsible government?
The reason these workers are here is because the big agricultural companies WILL NOT employ citizens, because they are not FORCED TO DO SO. They will use any loophole and any dirty methods to put more money in their own pockets, including the creation of a slave labor class. You will NEVER EVER get rid of that slave class until you MAKE THE SLAVERS stop what they're doing.
Again, blaming the immigrants for a situation that exists because of the proclivities of AMERICAN COMPANIES.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
As miss_kitty says, most of those ag positions are exempt, and for reasons that aren't going to change.
Agriculture is NOT like any other industry. Whether you agree with the practices or not, crops have to be harvested when they're ready, and there's a very small window to work in. Crops do not care about minimum wage or 40 hour work weeks. You harvest them, or they rot.
If you need 200 people working 16 hour days, 7 days a week for 3 weeks to get in a harvest, how many people would you need to get that harvest in working 40 hours a week? You can't make harvest season longer, you can only hire more people.
Do you really think there are that many Americans that want to take up the lifestyle of a migrant farm worker? Even if the jobs paid minimum wage, had a 40 hour week with benefits and paid vacations, offered decent housing and safe working conditions, do you know many people that want to pack up everything and move every few weeks or months, following the work? Doubtful.
running out and there are no jobs, I'll bet that Americans will accept slave wages. Better then nothing, huh? That's one way to stop the flow from Mexico. Will this be an unintended consequence of the bail out or was it intended. I cannot fathom any reason why real people are treated this way, and Wall Street gets to "socialize" the cost of their greed and thievery. The money that bailed them out came from taxpayers. WTF is the justification for this situation? Why isn't anyone insisting on answers to such questions?
I don't think they will accept slave wages. Or rather, their idea of "slave wages" will be well above minimum wage, which they consider unacceptable - or else they'd be working for it. There's a lot of bloviating here about how American workers will gladly take these jobs "when they pay a decent wage". But the whole point is that the jobs DON'T pay a decent wage, and Americans are unwilling to work for what these jobs pay. They will not even consider doing so until they are actually starving, and even then I'll bet a lot of people still wouldn't do it. 'Murrikin Pride, you know.
These jobs are not exclusive to immigrants. Any American can go pick fruit if he/she wants to. Nobody's stopping them. But they won't accept the conditions, and that's what the UFW is betting on, and where the central hypocrisy of the "stealing jobs" whine lies - blaming the lowest people on the ladder for the conditions established by the top.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
I love the idea that "Americans need jobs and will gladly work these farm jobs." Because, you know, there are lots of jobs for migrant farm workers in Detroit. Downtown Chicago has tons of farms, just begging for inner city workers to help it.
It kind of amazes me that people don't seem to realize that even if Americans were dying to become farm workers, most of them don't live somewhere that has those jobs available.
... indeed
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
They don't need a slave force to stay profitable, or even to raise their prices. It's just MORE profitable to use slaves instead of legal citizens.
The point just flew right over your pointy little head, didn't it?
No, dude. The argument is that cursing at immigrants for doing the work Americans refuse to do is immoral and hypocritical. If citizens were doing it, the work would be paid better because the law would require it, and then our lettuce would be $5 a head. But wingnuts refuse to accept that fact, so they blame the immigrant workers instead of the greedy corporate pusbags getting rich off of back-breaking labor they would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS stoop to doing. The argument is that people should either put up or shut up when it comes to jobs - if they're going to whine about immigrants "stealing my job", then they should GO GET THOSE JOBS, and quit their belly-aching.
But they won't, because for all their crying about not having work, it's only CERTAIN work they want. They don't want work that's hard, work that's long and difficult. So they just sit back and complain and point fingers. THAT is the whole point of the argument.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
My mom was a west texas farm girl , who was able to leave there about 1938-9 ( ? ) , one of her highest praises was " well bless your pea picking heart " .
Call their bluff , because all the repugs have is hot air and BS .
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
during the Depression as a little girl. She certainly didn't do that as an adult. She said it was very hard work.
cotton is the worst. Stuff cuts you up. Eventually some people get good enough to to stay bloody all the time I hear. I never did.
This is what the republicans and libertarins strive for, no unions, low wages and lots of poor people. It's the American Way dontcha know? Unions deprive needed money from the elite republicans and libertarians, equality is laughed at by these "leaders". Keep the poor poor they are not worthy because they are poor. Poor people are needed in corporatism it's built into the system, it's called capitalism but that's just a convenient term to keep people down and needy. According to most republicans and all libertarians "Anyone" can become rich beyond your wildest dreams, of course winning a Lottery gives most Americans a better chance at such prosperity at 30 Million to one, at least! But what do I know being poor and un-employed and struggling every second of every day to survive. I need money to buy lottery tickets it's my only real chance at riches.
PEACE
The love you take is equal to the love you make. John Lennon Paul Mc Cartney
Song:
"Do You Want My Job" --- (John Hiatt and Little Village)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guW3NXEKdy8
(A different kind of work but very apropos ...)
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
didnt mccrazy offer 50 dollars an hour to work in the fields?
im sorry, but im against taking advantage of illegal workers
i stand with cesar chavez, who knew that importing illegals would be done to break the ufw
now the ufw wants illegals???
makes no sense to me
to come and get 'em
BTW, you need to pick about 2 tons of tomatoes in a 10 hour day to make about $10 an hour, IIRC.
me-oww!
I thought I had some crappy jobs ...
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
Cleaning King Augeus stables?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Running an organic mushroom farm on the "proceeds" from the Aegean stables?
8^)
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzfyK_0fmIU
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
a union should be gaining a living wage and benefits for their workers
i would rather get the job from mccrazy
uh...and the problem right now in central cali has nothing to do with lack of workers, but lack of water...thanks to bush 1 and that idiotic bill for sports fishing
and then the flaming asshole reneged on the deal. Lying bastard!
That would have been my dream job. I guess I'll have to settle for the UFW job, if it is for real and not some more bullshit ... at least it (hopefully) isn't in f'ing Arizona ...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
You can work tomatoes in California, then pick fruit in Washington, or Georgia if you need warmer weather. A trailer or camper would work fine. The next year the cycle starts all over again.
I have friend who is a tree crop grower in the Sacramento Valley. He did a tour to Georgia several years ago and saw a fruit packing operation that disgusted him as far as worker safety went. He couldn't understand how the company operated in that manner.
Fri, 06/25/2010 - 17:52 — David762
and then the flaming asshole reneged on the deal. Lying bastard!
______________________________________________________
Izzat who did?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTqFzvloPh0
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWOZKeOauNI ]
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vbI-P6mFbg&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk57K4OGrAg
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
watch this, made by the Mexican movement and then tell me that they are here just trying to make a better life for themselves. Pass it on
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/the-me...
or Caesar Chavez, which is what this particular blog is about ...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
and without having to buy a too-expensive home in California, right where I was headed to, anyway. Providence!
I can buy a pop-up camper trailer, used, or even a decent (clean) horse trailer. I assume I need to join the UFW. Do they have info regarding accommodations (electric hook-up, potable water, porta-johns, and shower facilities?
Fuck all, I think I've done far worst -- I used to work as a mechanic for a traveling circus.
;^)
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
..
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
About America’s Farmworkers
Occupational Safety and Health
http://www.ncfh.org/?pid=4&page=6
... "Other occupational risks associated with farm labor are those associated with unsanitary conditions and the lack of potable water. There are anecdotal reports of farmworkers resorting to irrigation ditches and runoff ponds when safe water is not available for drinking and washing. Non-potable water is contaminated by pesticides, chemical fertilizers, and organic wastes and drinking and bathing in such water exposes farmworkers to potentially harmful chemicals and to water-borne parasites."
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
Get rid of the slave labor and this won't be a problem. Remember, slaves will be treated as slaves and work in slave environments.
They already are elsewhere. See Walmart eg.
me-oww!
Wal-mart comes close to, but is not, slavery. They have been given a lot of crap for it, and rightly so. You want to defend and maintain that, really?
You want to defend and maintain that, really?
me-oww!
Strangely enough, almost all of Wal-Mart's goods come from China. Isn't that such a coincidence?
However you are adamantly defending the BigAgri-slave owners like no one I have never seen before.
I'm telling you HOW IT IS. Telling the truth about a situation in no way is defending said situation. Why don't you defend and maintain by putting up examples where I have defended Big Ag. I haven't-it's an indefensible practice on a human and environmental level.
me-oww!
replies. You are defending BigAg and spreading your own personal hate for America in just about every reply in this thread. We are all just too fat, lazy, and incapable of getting along with just 1 other person according to you. We are all strangers to hard labor.
If I had to guess, you are an illegal immigrant or profit from the way things are done right now.
Not at all. If I had to guess, you are a self important little busybody who still has several important life lessons to learn, and you have some serious 'issues.'
me-oww!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uynqqiir52s&fe...
http://blog.ultimatetarottrainer.com/wp-conte...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
care to think about that for a few seconds before you retract it .
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
how long it would take you to come into this particular debate. You have something to bring to the table, yes?
No we hire the illegals to do our table service...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
glad your back
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
;)
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGdkDuL_fgU
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
i meant fat back , whew that was far away
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
I have slaves for that sort of thing.
@ 21:09 — ysbaddaden
me-oww!
...you choose to use it on the guy who is at this very moment searching YouTube to find something dominatrix-related to reply back.
I thought you would have known better by now.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
must be out of the room
every time you throw a little mud , you lose a little ground .
Actually I've been picking out these songs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GmVajkqLNU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F5P77seQ30
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
That's even worse!
:D
Love ya, ysb. Really.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKp5cVqJEso&fe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIuc1_Qg4A8
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
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