The Kagans Gloat About Afghanistan
I really thought the day of the Neocon was over when most people admitted what a screw-up the Iraq war had been, from start to almost-finish. But here we have Fred and Kim Kagan gloating in the Washington Post about the inevitable "troop surge that President Obama will be authorizing for Afghanistan next week.
Adding forces gives us leverage; military forces are vital to the success of any political strategy because they contribute directly to improving governance as well as to improving security.
The recent American experience in Iraq illustrates how U.S. forces and diplomacy helped correct the behaviors of a sometimes malign government in ways that helped neutralize insurgent groups.
For those of you just joining our show, the Kagans were loud proponents for dramatic increases in the number of US troops for Afghanistan. Yes, folks, the first thing we're supposed to believe is that Afghanistan is just like Iraq, and that adding tens of thousands of American troops will solve any problem in nation-building. Really! There are no problems in Iraq now...
If the Afghan government were fully legitimate, there would be no insurgency. ... [We] must persuade and even compel Afghan leaders to stop activities that alienate the people and create fertile ground for insurgents.
Wow. I'm torn between thinking that that paragraph is either the most patronizing or the most idiotically simple statement ever made. Do the Kagans really believe that if the Karzai government were less corrupt, that the Taliban would all say, "oh, obviously we can deal with this man, let's all give up our arms and drug money and participate in a democratic government." The Taliban are inherently opposed to a democratic-type government, they want to be in charge.
American military forces can also help restrain politicians' abuses of power. U.S. forces can develop a picture of local power structures, including those through which Afghan officials abuse their power and exacerbate the insurgency. American commanders can collect evidence on individual offenders that a reformed Afghan judicial system would one day be able to use.
That's a great idea, if Karzai doesn't go legit, we'll make him - by embarrassing him, because the blatant evidence of corruption in Kabul hasn't really done it enough. As for the Afghan judicial system, does "decades from now" count as "one day"? This is not a culture that will adopt Western values, but again, somehow the Kagans think that we can impose it on them. The Kagans' argument - that we need to force the Afghan government to behave so that our "security concerns" are met via the McChrystal options - is illegitimate and boastful. It could only appear on the Wall St Journal or - embarrassingly for the alleged liberal MSM - in the Washington Post op eds.
1. Loudly push for the wrong strategery until it is implemented.
2. Wait for the situation to be resolved.
3. Loudly declare victory and loudly claim your strategery worked regardless of evidence.
4. Common Wisdom will be that your strategery worked.
the entire gop, wingnuttia conservative, neocon
assholes want the war in afganistan to continue
because that is one more of their excuses to keep
relevant health care reform from being passed.
and that is because we can't afford health care.
just one more of these bastards meaningless
hypocritical misconceptions. we need to leave
afganistan now. england and russia both
stepped in this tar pit and nearly faced
total ruin. i would hope the whitehouse
is now intelligent enough to learn from
others mistakes.
when they flood the MSM everyday with their comments? What planet didd you just return from?
"oh, obviously we can deal with this man, let's all give up our arms and drug money and participate in a democratic government."
Geez...we can't even get our own Congress to do that!
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Amen!
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
"[We] must persuade and even compel Afghan leaders to stop activities that alienate the people and create fertile ground for insurgents"
so, as the kagans desire, we will "persuade" and "compel" afhan leaders by increasing foreign troops in afghanistan... that won't alienate the people, nor will it create fertile ground for insurgents!
*smacks head*
why must the world suffer these fools, and why does the WashPost publish just bullshit?
..a neocon. Its all hubris as if the Afghan's would adopt anything American including democracy. The w administration failed with all of the neocons urging him to LIE why we need to go into afghanistan in the first place and then w ignored the country allowing our soldiers to die all the while refereeing a civil war.
These people have no shame, no intelligence, no credibility, NOTHING and they should STFU!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
..the neocons are actually heroin addicts. When the Taliban was in charge, they went after the poppy growers. Now, the world is guaranteed a world record poppy crop and addicts everywhere are celebrating.
Why do these people hate America so much and embrace the drug culture?
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
That fat,pasty-faced Kagan would last 3 seconds in the military!
We should take every single member of Congress and the entire Obama administration plus every other American who is "for" us sending in more troops to Afghanistan and train them all to go to Afghanistan and fight the Taliban themselves.
Suddenly it won't seem like such a great idea to imagine themselves in the position of being Taliban cannon fodder or of having their legs blown off or their brains and bodies so horribly maimed that they end up as vegetables unable to speak for another 50 years with substandard care and also in constant agonizing pain.
One Congress member I heard on NPR today said, "We should not even be discussing an "exit strategy" EVER!!!! Because we want the Taliban to believe we are in this for the LONG HAUL".
Well, I am NOT.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Well, I wrote Bush and begged him to ship the Kagens off to war ....Unfortunately the Generals wrote back refusing to take them, citing they already had enough terrorists to deal with in the middle east.
.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Adding forces gives us leverage; military forces are vital to the success of any political strategy because they contribute directly to improving governance as well as to improving security.
Yeah, just ask the USSR ..... I mean Russia... well that worked well.
Adding forces gives us leverage; military forces are vital to the success of any political strategy because they contribute directly to improving governance as well as to improving security.
Yeah, just ask the USSR ..... I mean Russia... well that worked well.
NYT here
The war profiteers are dancing in the aisles.
Meanwhile, we the plundered peons can kiss our future goodbye.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
- Accountability for 'revisions' to FISA: NO
- Accountability for torture and war crimes by the Bush Junta: NO
- Regulation with teeth and accountability for the TARP Fiasco: NO
- Healthcare reform that will have any meaningful value: NO
Why am I going to vote for anything with a (D) in 2012, again?
Lesser of two evils ain't gonna cut it, folks.
Stop whining.... vote for the MadHatter/Pail-in in 12... then flush the toilet. After 8 years crime wave, it's going to take a while to change this ships course.... keep the faith.
Yes, I understand Bush left a big steaming pile in the Oval Office.
Yes, I understand that Republicans are a bunch of obstructionist WATBs.
If you make a promise, keep it. It's that simple.
And Obama is breaking promises left and right. The Democratic leadership has nothing to be proud of.
Provisions in the U.S. Patriot Act that were due to EXPIRE!!!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
I agree, both sides of the aisle were complaisant during the crime wave. But, I do see a glimmer of hope... Sanders and Grayson... 2012 is very important for us good folks.
..he broke it. I'm all for supporting the President and hope he makes good on his promises but in 2012, I'll examine what promises he kept and those he didn't. If a lot of people feel the way you or I do, we'll be hoping for a challenge in a Democratic primary from someone else who we'll want to keep their promises. The Dems, from the President to the House and Senate, have forgotten who put them in office and why. I hope they remember fast.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
..he broke it. I'm all for supporting the President and hope he makes good on his promises but in 2012, I'll examine what promises he kept and those he didn't. If a lot of people feel the way you or I do, we'll be hoping for a challenge in a Democratic primary from someone else who we'll want to keep their promises. The Dems, from the President to the House and Senate, have forgotten who put them in office and why. I hope they remember fast.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
Take this point for what it's worth, there will soon be FIVE TIMES as many U.S. forces in Afghanistan since Obama entered office.
All but neglected, Bush left office with just 13,000 troops in Afghanistan.
In March, Obama sent an additional 21,000, nearly tripling the number there.
By sending another 32,000 troops, the total rises to 68,000, or an increase of 500 percent.
Draw from that what you will.
* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.
These two clowns are just place holders for Darth as he prepares to board the plane for the Hague....for his WAR CRIMES TRIAL... Sound the same... look the same... smell the same ...think the same .... want to kill the same ... clueless the same.....
Heard Holland is nice.... ASAP... Please.
Isn't it interesting that almost all of these right-wing warmongers have never served in the military? Fighting terrorism is not going to be successful with an all-out war in countries, it must be strategic attacks on terrorists and their bases.
We keep at this mess and we'll go through what Russia is facing now: A horrific heroin problem, fueled by the Taliban, as a war weapon. Shades of Vietam, and we've still got vets on the streets as a result of that fiasco.
8 years and no victory, no bin Laden and the Taliban making a comeback, am I missing anything? So the kagans, not sure about the wife but I'm relatively certain old fred never served our country in our Armed Forces, is now wanting to escalate a war they and others in the bush mis-Administration ignored and underfunded. I guess I'm missing something, perhaps the history of conflict pertaing to Afghanistan, but has any country ever won in Afghanistan? This a-hole kagan talks real tough but I seriously doubt he could back it up personally.
Just think, my father spent 2 years in a North Korean Prison Camp so chickenhawks like this can talk tough but never actually have to back it up with action, like actually serving in the military and protecting our country physically instead of usellessly verbally. Ain't America great or what?
Peace
The love you take is equal to the love you make. John Lennon Paul Mc Cartney
My fellow Americans the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are lost. The latter when we elected to invade the former with Iraq lost the moment the looting was permitted unchecked. Now with the Iraq quagmire in Fort Apache mode Afghanistan is again on the front burner. The Afghans didn't really heat up until the seventh year of the Soviet War and it appears they are upping resistance against the US in the eight year of our occupation.
Kagan, the highly decorated Marine Colonel (snicker), is grandstanding the Afghan Surge for what any clear minded observer of history sees as a no win rat hole. Kagan fails to mention that short of nuclear weapons use to win a US military failure against a 3rd World state would be a devastating blow to our military. Remember that after our loss in Vietnam we reduced our forces from 3.5M to 1.7M and instituted all voluntary services. Our military is at a breaking point and this escalation is doomed while the aftermath to be foreseen as a monumental destruction of US Armed Forces.
Frank Zappa - Make A Jazz Noise Here
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