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MRAPs - Not Helping the Mission

Afghanistan_mrap_stuck

The USA Today's Tom Vanden Brook likes to talk about the Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles -  he's covered the topic for years, pushing the notion that the Pentagon was derelict in its reluctance to field these armored busses to forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, while studiously avoiding the issue of whether the vehicles are actually contributing to mission success. He reports that the MRAPs are saving lives in Afghanistan today (despite other reports that the vehicle doesn't really do that well in that country's terrain).

Nearly 80% of roadside bomb attacks on Humvees from January 2009 through the end of July 2010 killed occupants, according to U.S. Air Force Maj. Michael Johnson, a spokesman for the International Security Assistance Force, the top command in Afghanistan. That figure dropped to 15% for attacks on Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles, and an all-terrain MRAP model tailor-made for Afghanistan's rugged terrain. The trucks are designed to shield people from roadside bomb blasts.

The military estimates that MRAPs have reduced deaths and injuries by 30% over that time. That amounts to dozens of lives saved each month.

More than $40 billion will have been spent by the end of September to build, ship and maintain MRAPs.

It's a good thing that our troops can be protected from IEDs, if not from the shock it causes to their brains, during their multiple deployments to Afghanistan. But hey, that's not today's problem, so Vanden Brook doesn't focus on that post-conflict trauma issue. The important thing is knowing whether the $40 billion investment in MRAPs actually results in our troops being able to accomplish the mission, right? Read on...

The MRAP's ability to reduce casualties is important, said Andrew Krepinevich, president of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. But other factors are also considered in determining its usefulness.

"Ultimately it will be judged more on whether it helped U.S. troops accomplish their mission in Afghanistan than on its ability to reduce casualties," Krepinevich said in an e-mail. "Right now the war's outcome is still in doubt. If we succeed, the MRAPs, despite their high cost, will be seen as worth it. If we fail, some people will likely question whether we could have succeeded by adopting a different strategy and employing our resources differently."

I thought the initial investment of $20 billion in MRAPs for Iraq was irresponsible and a political kneejerk to emotional stories about troops dieing in urban conflicts. While it's tragic to lose one's son or father in an unjustifiably long war, it's worse to think that there were better ways to avoid that loss (like getting all of our forces out of Afghanistan in 2003). To spend $40 billion on the same technology, and then to promote its use in the Army's next Ground Combat Vehicle despite its high cost, operational limitations, and failure to add to mission success, is just stupidity in action. The American military's approach to warfare somehow results in this "technology will overcome our ineptness in combat" attitude that I just do not understand.

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24 Comments
CFAmick's picture

Fuck the mission. Bring the troops home. If MRAPs help them get home in one piece, I'm all for them.

TANG or the beneficial impact the adaption of the Hummer to domestic urban parking lots had on the Viagra resistant inadequate male.


“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

I thought the biggest danger to our soldiers were MRE's...


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

The title says they are not helping the mission. The first paragraph criticizes the military for not investing more in the technology and providing it sooner. The next question is whether they are contributing to mission success? Doesn't saving troop lives and reducing injuries contribute to mission success? The army seems to want to incorporate this technology in their newest vehicles. Since when is learning from your mistakes a bad thing? You may not think a twenty or forty billion dollar investment in such technology is wise but I bet your troops think otherwise and ours wish they had that technology.


Hasa Diga Eebowai

Jason Sigger's picture

You say " Doesn't saving troop lives and reducing injuries contribute to mission success? " and the answer is no, not really. That's my frustration. The technology does make the troops safer but it's reducing the ability of the troops to get things done. In part this is due to the poor execution of "population-centric" counterinsurgency ops, and in part it''s due to the fact that the MRAPs limit visibility and off-road movement. So couldn't this money be better spent to counter IEDs? I think so.

As far as the Army's next gen vehicle, the Army is dooming itself by describing this ideal vehicle that can't be made - lightweight to conserve fuel, hard as a tank, mobile as a Stryker, and oh yeah, maybe an affordable vehicle that we can buy in the tens of thousands. It's an impossible requirement.

Peter G's picture

than commercials touting uncompromising engineering. Engineering is the art of compromise. I see the point you are making. It is true that no perfect vehicle can be made. It is also true that a much improved vehicle can be made. The MRAP technologies, and it is a bundle of technologies, were applied to existing vehicular frameworks with some success but with some drawbacks as well. It is not possible to produce an optimal design this way. If you want to produce the best compromise of weight, mobility, speed and armor you have to start with a blank page and that is what they are doing with the new designs. There is, as noted in your post, no perfect solution to the hazards of the modern battlefield but then these hazards are not all that new. Mines have been with us a long time.
One of the consequences not noted in your post is related to survivability. New technologies may save the lives of soldiers by limiting the severity of injuries but they do not eliminate them. It is likely there will be more severely disabled survivors now. Heretofore they would have just been cadavers.


Hasa Diga Eebowai

DamOTclese's picture

How stupid, no matter what technology the terrorists use, no matter what they do not use, they are doomed to failure. The Afghani freedom fighters are dedicated to defending their homes, their families, and their lives and no amount of terrorist atrocities short of nuking the entire country will force them to surrender to the terrorists.

Peter G's picture

You need to head down to an international airport where returning "terrorists" might be expected and go spit in their faces. Tell 'em how you feel. Show 'em the path to righteousness.


Hasa Diga Eebowai

We're supposed to be smarter now, and more able to separate the warrior from the war. We know that the people who sign up, just like Pat Tillman, are usually responding to propaganda and once they get over there the realization hits them on what's really going on.


"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman

Peter G's picture

In retrospect it was an embarrassment.


Hasa Diga Eebowai

Pocatello's picture

having spent the period you reference in places like Coronado, Travis AFB, Oceanside and Ft. Bragg North Carolina, I believe you are mistakenly perpetuating the myth. Not only did I never hear of this phenomena at the time, I believe it would have been very hazardous to the health of any individual practicing this activity.
You might want to read this:

LazyCosmos's picture

US economy and further diminish its reputation, while pointlessly killing illiterate paid Afghan "terrorists", then the mission is right on track.

Pocatello's picture

is not to protect or enable feet on the ground to survive or be more effective. The "Mission" is to support the Defense Contractors at home. Fewer then 10% of our military are boots on the ground. Many of the rest are Procurement Officers, Contract Administration Officers. etc. Billion dollar defense allocations that have proven ineffective are more common than not. See the LCS (littoral combat ship), ABL program or DD(X) (DD-1000) for evidence.

Add: At $40 billion dollars, this program is only a modest success for those contractors.

CFAmick's picture

"Earmarks."

MaryK's picture

And Obama is catching a load o' crap for proposing we spend 50 billion on our own wornout infrastructure? What's wrong with this picture?


"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman

BigD145's picture

The Pentagon is exempt from all criticism.

Roket's picture

And that is to suck the life's blood out of this country. The M2 Bradley has evolved even further.

The Pentagon Wars

Pocatello's picture
.

Linky failed

Edit double posted

ysbaddaden's picture
)O(

The Jack Conway (D KY) thread is pretty quiet if y'all want to get a question in.


Diabolus est Deus Inversus

Loonie's picture

Won't feed the starving, won't heal the sick, but bombing the shit out of someone else's country? Here, have all the cash you need!

Allamr18's picture

Im just gonna push back a bit on some of this. I am a 2nd Lt and i do logistics. we use mraps all the time in our convoys and the benefits outweigh the the downside as far as combat goes. MRAPs alone dont solve the problem which is why we dont use just them. we have engineers that do route clearance and EOD that does things, MRAPs are only one vehicle in the mix. Now granted im not sure where their place is if say we have to go into a jungle environment probably we will sell them lik everything else. but a big mission like OEF and smaller missions like what company's or battalions do are different. big missions depend upon the success of smaller missions. It really depends on what task we are given. I will add to this by no means do i think we should be spending the amount of money we do in certain areas and trust me we as a military know it as well. I would love to send 20 billion to education or science and research. But i cant


LT

Plisko's picture

So are you bitching that the troops are incompetent? Are you bitching that we shouldn't keep them as safe as possible while they are being incompetently managed? Are you bitching that it is a waste of money to keep troops safer when it doesn't improve the mission success? What exactly are you bitching about while you drive on nice safe roads at home?

Keeping soldiers alive is a mission success. I find this post offensive.

bad_robbie's picture

So are you bitching that the troops are incompetent? Are you bitching that we shouldn't keep them as safe as possible while they are being incompetently managed? Are you bitching that it is a waste of money to keep troops safer when it doesn't improve the mission success? What exactly are you bitching about while you drive on nice safe roads at home?

Keeping soldiers alive is a mission success. I find this post offensive.

Your "incompetent" question is simply a straw-man. Not gonna bite.

As to the topic at hand: it might be a waste of blood and treasure to sacrifice mission success just to keep the troops safe. After all, if you can achieve your goals and get out earlier, wouldn't that be another way of reducing our casualties, rather than having a somewhat safer environment but an unending campaign?

And if the mission is simply keeping soldiers alive, couldn't we carry out this mission at home? You don't invade a country if that's your goal, do you? You expect some people to be injured and killed, and presumably you feel that that is justified. Not that I'm really sure what the mission is now.

But taking offense at considering this alternative is just silly.

Matt Osborne's picture

That the entire MRAP program has cost a fifth the price of the Joint Strike Fighter program?

Actually, when you do a cost-benefit analysis COIN-type warfare is shockingly cheap compared to "conventional" battle.

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