Afghanistan Speech Open Thread
By John Amato Tuesday Dec 01, 2009 5:00pm
Let us know what you're seeing and thinking--the speech itself and coverage of the speech.
Obama is scheduled to take the stage at West Point Military Academy at 8 pm Eastern / 5 pm Pacific time, and the speech is expected to last 40 minutes.
If you are not near a television, you can watch the speech live-streamed at MSNBC.com. and VetVoices will be liveblogging it here.
[image from Political Graffiti]
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Not jokeing if he doesn't stand up now his presidenticy will forever be a failure.
(..he's giving the speech from West Point ... do the math)
I know this doesn't look good.
an access denied msg ... but seriously this is very sad ...
very sad indeed :(
Is sounding like little Bush to me...
Same policies , just different words..
Emanuel should be proud of himself for taking Obama and the democrats down in just 10 months.
This made Hillary's campaign speech correct,,,,, Obama is just a person with a speech and lacks experience...
ue, 12/01/2009 - 17:09 — Neoatg
I know this doesn't look good.
___________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-KPkp8u56k&fe...
n/t
was to "refocus on Afghanistan," not send more troops. There's a difference.
Never said that he was going to start World War III.. Obama said he was going to finish it..
Obama said he was going to look at the situation before making a decision.
The Afghanistan's after the U.S. trains them ,, they run away or to the other side.
We are throwing our soldier's lives and tax money down the same d... hole that Bush did..
Halliburton and Blackwater are cleaning up on our tax money. So the republicans will love this because they love war and what it brings to the friends in the war contracting business...
We are not considered a third world country anymore , once you subtract the wealth of the Global Giants for our so-called economy..
We have none,,, Bush and now Obama has make sure that we do not..
We have none,,, Bush and now Obama has make sure that we do not..
I know I was watching President Obama but I kept hearing George Bush's voice. Really. It was unsettling. Just what we need - another SURGE! Unless Obama pulls a few miracles over the next 2 years I probably won't vote for him again. What a sad day for everyone who voted for him.
Version of the history of these wars?
he feels we need to be reminded about 9/11 because apparently we've all forgotten why we lost our fucking minds for 8 years
No no no, we lost our freedoms. Remember, that's what we've been fighting for, our freedom. For nine years now we've been told this war was to make America free.
Our military in on it's last thread , our manufacturing has all been send around the world , our jobs are something of the past , our constitution is a piece of paper that the President , Senate and House members wipe their a.. on..
Those that can afford are renters in our own country and the others are HOMELESS>>>
Our live style and economy is blowing in the wind my friend,..
because those kids in the audience were in elementary school when all this started?
Whats to use our public tax money for the religious schools. so they can train (brain wash) our citizens with propaganda and BS ,, from birth to dead.
Just as other dictatorial governments do..
It's a sad day.
Saudi Arabia has 15 of the 19 terrorist of 911.. Saudi Arabia also funded some of the insurgents in Iraq which were killing our soldiers.
Bin Laden was a citizen of Saudi Arabia...
Bush hustled the Saudi Arabia's family out of our country when all airplanes were grounded right after 911..
They were having a meeting with the Bush family on his ranch..
Saudi Arabia the nation which Bush Sr. first went to war against Iraq in the Gulf war for their protection...
And they are laughing their a.. off about out total destruction to our infrastructure and economy...
You mean this started as a family squabble over the potato salad?
so... 9/11
Obama mentions the reason for us being in Afghanistan is the events of 9/11, Al Queda and Osama bin Laden.
Yet we have the 9/11 Commission members themselves admitting they were lied to about the events of 9/11 and neither Obama nor any member of Congress whom I am aware of seem to care about finding the truthful answers to literally hundreds of pertinent unanswered questions.
We have a Congress member today asking why it was that George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld halted the imminent capture of OBL back in 2001/2002:
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009...
Yet more unanswered questions.
Beyond all this, I wonder what it is Obama and The Pentagon believe will happen as soon as U.S. troops/NATO troops "leave" Afghanistan in 2011??
My belief is that nothing will ever really change in Afghanistan because their nature is to be tribal and culturally backward and that the United States has no reason to be in that country militarily until we have conclusive and truthful answers to ALL the questions the world community has regarding the events of 9/11. It is the bloody and heart-breaking "elephant in the room" that everyone is aware of but are afraid to face.
Right now we ARE an occupying military force in Afghanistan AND Iraq.
We should get out of both countries post haste.
Plus we cannot afford to be in either country. We have "nation-building" to do here.
where all them blame should lie.
Bipartsionship
What a crock of bull that is. Like Republicans would suddenly think bipartisanship is a good idea.
Obama has "not" done a d... thing that he promised or any policies from the progressives..
Yet we are getting blame for Obama's policy troubles..
The news media and the republicans have been attacking us for over 30 years.
Now it seems like a good policy for the elected democrats and centrists ,, because the have started attacking us too..
Of course Matthews always hated the so-called left. Matthews called the left a bunch of Wackoos because we did not like Bush/Cheney's Policies.
in his fairy tale about having Osama cornered then we dropped the ball.
that switch from Afghanistan to Iraq is smoke and mirrors. He is doing a great job of covering for Shrub and Darth.
when he blamed it on the individuals, mostly Saudi nationals, who flew planes into the WTC for our starting a war Afghanistan. I remember when it was all about the burkas for awhile.
you made it further than I did.
Yep he's turning his back on the country and supporting the MIC.
and know, Mr. president, that by your actions, some of them will waste their lives and devastate their families and communities. Think long and hard, Mr. President about continuing the insanity of your predecessor.
the reason he has to do this is because Bush wanted to go Iraq because they "tried to kill his Daddy." If we fail this is Bush's fault, moreso than any other disaster during the Bush presidency.
He trying the feed us the propaganda from these foreign government.
anymore!
What is the matter with you!
*
Hook line and sinker. That's it Obama you are officaly a war time president this is now your war.
Just say it already you prick you done everything but say it.
Who is kidding Whom? Anyone who thinks that they live in democracy, or a republic ought to come to their senses.
America is an empire. America is owned and run by a tiny elite who spend a lot of energy on stealing the wealth of this nation from the rest of us. The public are becoming serfs and slaves in a land that their forbears fought to end the tyranny of monarchical abuse. We are just about to go full circle on that now.
President Empty Rhetoric may have gotten the vote of many on this thread, but he clearly did not deserve it. What we are witnessing tonight is the end of illusion that voting for the "lesser of two evils" is a viable strategy for the people. It is not.
The only winners tonight are the bastards who are destroying America, rotting out its moral fiber, its finances and its future.
Signposts that America is on the road to Hell? Here's a couple:
"Goldman Sachs Bankers Arming Themselves Against Peasants"
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/12/goldma...
War Profiteers Find Friend in Obama's DoJ:
http://www.truthout.org/1130094
America is so screwed.
It's been over for a while. Even before Bush Inc. stole those two terms.
BID
nevermind...deleted
his speech was referring to help for the Palestinians against the warmonger and genocidal Israel I might buy it.
I think it's official, I'm fed up with Obama.
I can't bring myself to watch this speech. How's it going to be so different from back in March when he sent in around 4000 or so?
This weekend I'll probably be removing my Obama bumpersticker.
Need some help removing that bumpersticker?
Depends, the new sticker will say, "If This Car's a Rockin', Don't Come a Knocking."
:)
"INSIDE EVERY OLD PERSON IS A YOUNG PERSON....
wondering what happened"
And here are two others I use on a "rotation":
"DON'T MAKE ME RELEASE THE FLYING MONKEYS"
"WHAT IF THE HOKEY POKEY IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT?"
Is a hokey pokey when you use a dildo?
Thanks for making laugh so hard I snorted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQuOunDwGaE
you can find "I Voted for Change, and All I Got Was This Lousy Bumper Sticker."
I'm even going to wait for the weekend I am so disgusted.
All you whiners will do is leave the door open for 2 more repub nitwits to continue Bush's mess in 2012.
Obama's reasons are questionable but classified and I'm guessing I'm going to support him because of those reasons we don't know about yet (hint; Iran, Pakistan and India - 3 nuclear states).
Can O Whoopass is right!
Rather we should have two Demo nitwits as two repub nitwits!!!
What would be happening tonight if McCain/Palin had won the election? Just that thought frightens the fuck out of me!
I'd rather have adults I don't completely understand (I agree that much of this must be classified) running this country, than preschoolers making mountains out of dust particles and completely ignoring anything of substance.
I'm not watching it either. There's nothing he can say...
When they were trying to sell this garabage to there people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Af...
For a constitutional scholar like Obama, this statement is staggering. He is either lying consciously or he has not read the Constitution. If the former, then he is indeed a shill for the Fortune 500 and the MIC. If the latter, then Harvard should retroactively take away his academic credentials and apologize to those students who paid 40K a year to take classes from a buffoon. War can only be declared by Congress. This has not happened since 1941. The correct descriptive phrase is "the illegal invasion of sovereign nations in the middle east to protect US economic interests."
There was the congressional AUMF against Iraq, but I'm not sure about Afghanistan, and in either case it is not a formal declaration of war or of Police Actions which I believe Congress has to be notified within 48 hours of committing armed forces to military action and armed forces cannot remain for more than 60 days, with a further 30 day withdrawal period, without an authorization of the use of military force or a declaration of war.
I just noticed while typing it, it includes the AUMF. However, that part I think remains unconstitutional since an Act does not override a Constitutional article, without the Constitution being amended.
or dont you remember
which is why it is obama making the decision and not the congress
If you're correct, what you've got now is a monarchy/oligarchy/plutocracy. Close Congress and replace it with a Discount Munitions Warehouse. The federal debt will disappear in days.
How Obama made a point of giving the Senate and House "vote tally's" for the original resolutions???
I have a feeling I know of the "one" vote that was a "Nay" in the House. Mr. Paul.
to Declare Victory and bring our soldiers Home. Now they will turn to dust in a distant land because a few old insane men.
you prefer the reinstitution of bin Ladin or worse, the Ayatollah of Iran? Bush f*cked up going after Saddam but Obama has an opportunity to correct those mistakes, now.
Obama just endorsed the corrupt afghan government.
The deed is done, and pragmatism is more important than spilling blood trying to correct the corruption.
Speech was all about working with afghan’s to get rid of corruption. It near if not impossible to get rid of corruption by a foreign government(the USA) when the government(afganistain) your Helping is what is corrupt.
if only dennis kucinich were a handsome, charismatic black man, we could have avoided this.
How about his wife?
what the hell did we elect? Obama just tried to wipe away the histroy of Vietnam to aviod the comparision.
Good point. An LBJ/Nixon clone.
Listen to what the Commander in Chief has to say....
Not one bit of it.
One million dollars per soldier per year = 3 billion.
Add in the "contractors" and we're looking at another (or continuation of our current) financial disaster.
Er, Johnny, get a pencil and try that match again.
He should have just said that the Bush/Cheney administration had gotten us into a fucking mess we can't just walk away from at this time.
Again.....we don't just pull out and leave a nation that we f*cked up beyond our wildest dreams.
We OWE the Afghani's at least a chance to have their own government....military, etc.
There is no plan to leave. Bases under construction. WaPo:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...
".. never seeks to occupy another country" ..Yeah, sure ...
Tue, 12/01/2009 - 17:57 — real_earl
...cause everybody spends billions when they dont plan on staying...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...
Thanks Mr.President Sham-Wow Guy ...but I aint buying your shitty used car today.
in the not to distant future, a speech about why we have to, or why we already have invaded Iran. You betcha.
Oh well....
Mr. President, YOU OWN THIS WAR NOW.
And none of the flowery rhetoric will change that.
You WASTED ALL YOUR POLITICAL CAPITAL.
Welcome to YOUR VIETNAM, SIR.
Yeah...this IS your Vietnam.
No matter how many times you mention "....they attacked us on 9-11..."
The people who attacked us were SAUDI NATIONALS....NOT AFGHANIS, PAKISTANIS...OR ANYONE ELSE.
The fact is that YOU BLEW IT, sir.
Enjoy the rest of your ONE-TERM PRESIDENCY.
It's a damn shame....just a damned shame.
Our "national security" is your current excuse for THIS?????
BS, sir.
BS.
you want the Iranian Ayatollah to move in to Afghanistan, train a bunch of nuts and re-attack New York or even worse. You are a real winner.
Soviet Empire failed its attempt. American Empire is failing. Why do you think Iran would even want to, or would be successful?
Ayatollah represents Islam, Afghanistan's #1 religion. I doubt Iran would have to fire a shot. Then our problems would be on the brink of nuclear.
Exaplain the 8-year Iran/Iraq war. Both Islamic nations.
that has got to be one of the stoopidest things I've read in a C&L comment thread.
I believe it's an Imam for Sunnis, and a Mullah for Shia (Iran now Iraq). The Sunni's have Caliphs (Ottoman Turks called them Sultans), who are elected, not Ayatollahs who are Shia and who inherit their positions.
I'm not sure but I think part of what they're fighting in Afghanistan is whether they are Sunni or Shia, Caliphs or Ayatollahs, and the Taliban I think may be related to the Wahhabis, which is like yet a third branch.
The Iran/Iraq war had nothing to do with religion. Iraq was a largely secular ruled nation under the bathists and they were fighting Iran for LAND not religion. If you know ANYTHING about Islam you should know that they aren't fond of any religion other than thiers. The only thing the 4-9 major tribes of afghanistan hate more than each other...is outsiders.
Ugh. Follow the thread.
so i read the thread...turns out you still need to read a book. One of the major tribes in Afghanistan is naturally from the Eastern Iranian boarder...a boarder that was drawn less than a century ago by a white guy...Most of the Afghans near Herat (in the northwest) identify themselves with Iran and they regularly cross the boarder to trade goods there (mostly drugs). We need to turn Afghanistan into a country with a national identity...good luck with that.
I was talking since WWI and the redrawing of the map that followed, obviously, since it was before WWI that they were part of the Ottoman Empire
So I suggest you read a library.
And in the comment you reference I didn't even mention Iraq or Iran.
I was one of the few trying to tell people Saddam was a secularist, albeit a dangerous one, when they were trying to claim the Iraq war was about 9-11.
And I never refered at all to the Iraq/Iran war of the early 80's. You conflated at least three seperate military campaigns.
"...supported by a broad coalition of 43 countries..."
Moldavia?, South Korea?, Costa Rica?
That's pure BushSpeak.
That's a total of 6 soldiers, who's the rest?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/afghanistan...
Got the attention span to make it thru the list?
I helped bring home some of the guys on that list! Dont think that Americans are the only people sacraficing and the only people who believe in what the world is trying to do in that country.
thanks Hys.
thats gotta be tough.
We will never forget them.
when some of those 43 countries are England, Canada, Australia, France, Denmark, Norway, Germany and Spain...who ALL have troops on the ground in Afghanistan, I'd say is a solid group, not just bushspeak.
and a majority of the citizens in those countries think the war is bullshit
they agreed to Afghanistan because then they could say no to Iraq without too much US punishment. See how this works ?
100 billion, 200 billion, 300 billion, 1 trillion sorry but Obama you lieing you ass off. It's not going to be 30 billion and you fucking know it.
rather, our survival) if we're still pissing away what money we still have left into these freaking wars!
when do we start welcoming our new permanent right-wing Republican government? In 2010 or 2012?
When it's a complete Rethug landslide in 2012, I will admit that the Mayans were correct after all.
This is complete bullshit Obama is a warmongering, Bush light, Corporate whore.
We don't know what Iran is up to.
there no weapons being made completely mean nothing. Who the hell are you trying to kid?
Newsflash: Israel has nuclear power plants, about 200 nuclear weapons with delivery systems to hit Iran and they REFUSE ALL U.N. INSPECTIONS AND GET AWAY WITH IT!!!
At least Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel is NOT!!!
This phony false populist is starting to sound like the simian warmonger with a much better vocabulary and the ability to complete a sentence. Different delivery . . . same imperialistic rhetoric. Click!
*
He's now going full blown Bush and trying to use Gitmos closeure to cover the fact that he is turning his back on reason.
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6139/afghand...
...a MadCat piloted by the Rogue Trooper.
Gee...did Obama just challenge the Chinese on Tibet and on their brazen disrespect for human rights??
Plus, it is my understanding that the United States is still using secret rendition to "black sites" where there is torture occurring.
And one more thing. He just mentioned that the United States does not "occupy" any countries? I think most South Koreans would disagree with that. Not to mention the Iraqi's and Afghans.
How bout this one Mr. President???
cause we sure aren't getting any help from him.
He sure talks purty, but it's the same old bullshit.
Last time I vote for anybody with a D or a R after their name for the foreseeable future.
Well, except for the whole health care thang. That seems to be "for" corporate America more than "for" the American people.
False "News" can say whatever they want about O now, not that they don't already, it's just this time...I don't give a shit.
Still hasn't Bold face said he will incress tropps he is a coward can't even say the words
The purported reason we are in Afghanistan is because we're hunting down the perpetrators of the 9/11/01 attacks. Within days after the collapse of the WTC towers the Islamic media featured comments by Osama Bin Laden. He stated that he was not involved. He stated that the American People should look at forces within our own secret government.
Bin Laden: "Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks." http://www.911review.com/articles/usamah/khil...
Here's 40 reason why you should wonder if we have been told the truth tonight by Obama:
http://********.org/article.php?story=2004122...
***
We are in Afghanistan for the purpose of controlling, in an imperial fashion, the wealth of Central Asia. Our presence there has nothing to do with 9/11.
So, President Empty Rhetoric is simply engaging in a deception tonight with the American public. He is acting as a traitor might with regards to the best interests of the American people.
I can see the enemies that the American people face and they are called KBR, Goldman Sachs, the Fed, private equity and dare we admit it to ourselves now, the White House?
But he's sure racking up the points with corporate campaign funders. Hallelujah! Here comes the fraud called "the (s)election of 2012".
who woulda thunk it
You might want to read some of this:
http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/dailyloaf/20...
I'm still digesting the video portion: I see many erros, but the article is good.
This is quoted within, and desrves notice (Zbigniew Brzezinski):
Sounds just like The Project for a New American Century. Here's the 'Statement of Principles' according to the signatories. The gangs all there--except perhaps Obama's.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementof...
I apologize to my readers. Due to technical difficulties beyond my control a vital URL in my previous post has been bolloxed. For those interested, I recommend a Google search on this phrase:
THE TOP 40
REASONS TO DOUBT THE OFFICIAL STORY OF SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001
... An outline in simple talking points ...
That should get you where you need to go.
Furthermore, David Sirota has asked a very important question tonight for all Obama apparatchiks and government handlers to answer:
"Mr. President, I'm confused. Is this hope or change?"
http://www.openleft.com/diary/16271/some-ques...
being so goddamned militaristic!!!
Blowback anyone???
Is a blowback when Moanica hiccuped?
.
This warmonger corprate whore couldn't even say the words Plain and simple.
"I'm sending more troops" if you can't say it Obama then you know your wrong
... never seeks to occupy another country, or tap its resources, or ...
Talk to Smedley Butler, sir.
We've been an imperialist/colonial power for years.
Another smooth speech, but ...
BID
...cause everybody spends billions when they dont plan on staying...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...
Thanks Mr.President Sham-Wow Guy ...but I aint buying your shitty used car today.
How does he think we have Guantanamo in the first place?
What a crock.
Does he think Bill O'Reilly will like him now?
at The Staples Center in downtown Los Angeles before "the public" he wouldn't be getting such a rosy reception to his new military agenda thousands of miles from "The Homeland".
maybe the teabaggers were right after all.
/half-snark.
And turned on Malcom in the Middle.
I had to get my head in a better place lest it explode.
Kucinich for President. See if we can get him to run independent so we will have SOMEONE to vote for next time.
Rachel Maddow kisses his ass.
Jeeez.
... she's purported to be.
I've read that she's actually quite jingoistic at times. The whole teary flag-waving thing ...
That said, I think she has a tremendous intellect. She's light years smarter than any of those screeching, bug-eyed, lacquered harridans on the right.
BID
I hink she's basically protecting the President from the Right. We know that they will (and already are) pointing out that the base his base is against this expansion. its a bit misguided though in that the best cover for him (if thats your aim) is to continue to be vocally against this.
I guess she has her reasons. It is a bit "I gotta crush on Obama" ...ish.
"MISSION POSITION ACCOMPLISHED!?" hanging from the curtain behind him?? The teeming unwashed in both countries are getting screwed once again.
but it sure ain't in the missionary position.
Horny archbishop?
We have the map and everything!!!
"This is an AMERICAN war!"
I believe it is an American war because the U.S./multinational oil corporations need military cover in order to get the pipeline built. The Taliban could have played ball with the big boyz back in the late 90's but they crossed Cheney and Co. one too many times. Now we'll have to rough them up until they see it "our way".
We'll be there FOREVER. The fall of empires can get ugly. Hold onto your seats. It's going to be a bumpy ride.
and sends everyone home, the Pteradactyls are hovering in four directions. Iran is the most dangerous to overtake the Afghans.
Then there's Pakistan and India with nukes.
And Russia.
When the truth is laid out like Abbybwood has so effectively done, the old fall back is to mention the nukes.
this strange myth about a pipeline being the reason for this war. Where on earth did this nonsense come from. No one in his right mind would build a pipeline through that terrain. Pipelines are fragile as hell. No bank would finance such a project, No insurance company would insure it. It is hard to imagine the specialists you need to do this getting anywhere nearer than a flyover. They can't keep the roads open for pity's sake. Why would anybody build such a pipeline when there are plenty of safer routes and the biggest market in the world is due east.
Don't tell us. Tell it to Unocal.
:)
THERE ARE PIPELINES EVERYWHERE!!! not really though, i've flown over most of the country and the only building being done is by ISAF troops, they aren't building piplines...they are putting up schools and roads.
right?
you are even reminded a few posts down
yet, you wanted him to take the "progressive" stance and leave afghanistan to its own devices
thing is, last time we did that...it kinda blew up in our faces
your anger is misplaced...you should all be pissed at bush for mucking this whole thing up in the first place
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