Col. Jack Jacobs on torture: I got more out of using cigarettes, medical care and food
By John Amato Monday Apr 20, 2009 5:00pm
The news that we used waterboarding a total of 266 times on two terror suspects has rocked the country.
C.I.A. interrogators used waterboarding, the near-drowning technique that top Obama administration officials have described as illegal torture, 266 times on two key prisoners from Al Qaeda, far more than had been previously reported.
MSNBC's military analyst retired Col. Jack Jacobs said that it was an astounding number.
Norah: Are you surprised by the number, two hundred and sixty six time on two terrorism suspects?
Jacobs: It's kind of astounding isn't it? You think after one or two times it didn't work, you wouldn't keep trying. Clearly, if you're doing it that many times it should be obvious to the casual observer that the technique is not working. Usually the information that you can get that's useful, you can get with very easy techniques. I've been in combat plenty of times, captured lots of bad guys and invariably got lots of information out of them using cigarettes, medical care and food. Most of the stuff that you're going to get when you give people a bad time, most of it is going to be information that they're going to give just to shut you up or to get you to stop doing what you're doing to them.
The colonel didn't want President Obama to release the CIA memos, but his take on torture is right on. It should be obvious, but it wasn't and that's often the case when new powers are bestowed on people with power. And that's why Judge Bybee should be impeached.
Join the grassroots movement to impeach Judge Jay Bybee by signing your name to the resolution before Friday's California Democratic Party convention.
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cant do that any more obama raised the taxes on ciggs tortures cheaper , then giveing them weeds! cough weeze
Congress passed tax legislation.
well slick !obama didnt have to sighn that bill! as for my hackles mindless dummys who defend his letting congress tell him its time to screw the consumer for something that should be taken care of by the money they are going to piss away on banks and the financial institutions [trickle down economics] is what frosts my nuts, so ! when he sighns a [tax increase bill ], how is it you cant see it? , obama doesnt raise taxes???????????????
The money generated from this tax will fund the sCHIP and smoking cessession programs None of it will go to the banks...so that argument is a non-starter.
Anyone can avoid paying this tax, and we can discuss how to do that, but my guess is you already know how to do that. The good news is that if you chose not to, you don't pay the tax but also save about three times the amount of the tax as well. In this sense, it would allow anyone to lower their taxes (the cigarette tax) and decrease their out of pocket expenses (the cost of the cigarettes). So it is in essence a use tax that is voluntary and leveled only on about 16% of the population.
An added bonus if people refuse to pay the cigarette tax, aside from saving millions of lives, is that in the long run the government could save billions in Medicare taxes used to treat diseases such as high blood pressure, cancer of various organs, emphysema, heart disease and impotence, amoung others.
We can disagree on whether this tax should have been passed but I think the overwhelming evidence is that the net effect will be positive.
since cheney, bush, rumsfeld and condi all liked
to have others tortured, then i am all for a petition
to have all of them renditioned to one of their
own black sites and each be waterboarded 6 times
a day for the next month until they
admit to all the fucking lies and crimes
they have committed. it's not torture by their definition.
it's American law and international law that
all who torture must be investigated and tried.
NO EXCEPTIONS......this time Obama must not
shirt the law and let these bastards pass. he will
negate all the good in the world this country
has done by letting the politically elite pass.
When you take a walk through Walter Reed Hospital or any other hospital where troops are being treated for injuries (lost limbs, burns and etc.), because of I.E.D. explosions, suicide bombs or other heinous, cowardly atrocities, then come back and tell your sob story about these poor cretins being "tortured."
You go to Iraq, Guantanomo, and Abu Gahrib and visit with those people that lost children, had families brutalized and maimed and murdered by US soldiers and tell us your "sob story" about how torture is justified.
apparently you didn't watch or listen to the clip. The Colonel said that he got better results with cigarettes, food and medical care.
i have great empathy for the courageous men
and women who serve and protect our country
so the majority of us are safe. that does
not make it right to commit a crimes and you
are wrong to respond emotionally in favor of
doing so. you only show what contempt you
have for our national laws. i hope you
never suffer for your indifference to morally
following the law no matter how painful it is.
And, maybe one day, some time before it doesn't much matter any more, you could look at the ACTUAL record and find out how many innocent people our lovely troops have heinously murdered over the past, say, 100 years. We've got blood on our hands that makes the IED bombers look like they're playing with pop-rocks.
So object to the war. People are fighting over there, what did you think happens? America invaded their country.
Torture is American terror, vengeance and retribution.
(I'm sorry for the personal pain you must feel.)
those people were sent there by liars and then underequipped. they were told to torture the locals and treat them as less then human even if it meant using white phosphorus on an entire city of 455,000(and you thought Saddam was mean). they were told to eat haliburton peanutbutter sammiches that were two months old and to shower with a toaster tied around their legs after a long day in an unarmored vehicle in the desert wearing 60 lbs of gear including hazmet equipment for the mythical chemical WMD.
All because the only thing boosh and rummy wanted to do was gut the country and funnel as much money as they could into the pockets of their friends in the Carlyle group.
cut the jingoistic bullshit.
the people who put the soldiers there just got voted out of office.
Shock and Awe-- Baghdad vs IEDs?
Watch and think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aEvzuA4f0c
Have we forgotten how America got things "rolling"????
wouldn't BE in Walter Reed. They'd be home with their families. Torture is what gets the troops killed and maimed. Think about it for 2 FRIGGING seconds and think what would happen if the US were invaded by "ferners" from the over side of the frigging planet. THEN think about what the fuck use torture would be on you. And what was left of your family. Do you seriously believe the invaders torturing you would give them any intel worth a shit??? You would tell them that you nextdoor neighbor who you couldn't stand and always said "hey those invaders aren't so bad" was a terrorist out to get them. Sooooooo they go torture HIM and guess what? he doesn't know shit.... but they keep trying..... so HE tells them.......ad infinitum...... GET IT?????? TORTURE IS A USELESS INTEL TOOL!!!!!!! Just keeps producing futher and futher more useless shit. That quite often catches your own allies and turns them against you. Up to WWII America knew how to win wars they didn't dive to the bottom for a load of shit. Post WWII, use of torture - no wins, so sorry. DOESN'T WORK!!!!
That Shrub let deteriorate to a point that a dog shouldn't be allowed to live there?
That hospital that had mold growing on the sheetrock, where they had sheetrock?
The hospital that had Dana Priest banned from it's premises after she dared tell the truth?
That Army Reed Hospital?
Youre not talking about torture to gain information...youre talking about torture as revenge.
Torture is a famously ineffective method of acquiring information, what Col. Jacobs is saying is not new. To give you an idea of how not-new it is...British intelligence would interrogate Nazi officers, by sitting them down, offering them tea, having lunch, talking about the weather, and other small talk. Slowly but surely, the interrogator would incorporate the subject of military intelligence into the conversation, and thats how they got their information. The Brits found that to be an extremely effective way of getting the information they needed.
I cant quite remember how the war turned out...maybe we shouldve tortured them for killing so many Jews...naah...they werent OUR jews....
..the number of those brave men and women who have been wounded and maimed would be far less than we have now. Invading Iraq was a major mistake and an unnecessary move that put those brave men and women in harm's way. Bush should, at least, pay for that! That they refused to do what was necessary in Afghanistan to kill or capture OBL and get out was sheer stupidity. Eight years of making wealthy people wealthier on the blood and tears of this nation and then violate our own and international laws, sorry, crimes have been committed and if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
So cigarette burns aren't torture?
But, they are the enemy. They have no code or rules of engagement. And you care why? Because you are humanitarian??
It's clear from the context he meant giving them cigarettes.
And providing food, not withholding it.
And providing medical care, not withholding it.
you're be obtuse or just plain stupid. By cigarettes, he means giving them a smoke. It's what prisoners seem to like to do.
Try reading or watching the article. It may help overcome your ignorance.
Yeah, that goes a long way. Coddle the enemy. Koom by ya....
n/t
The US made it through World War Two without using any of these "enhanced interrogation techniques" - and it's the last war this nation fought and won.
Think about that!
Since I am a Veteran and getting up in years, I need to know if I can count on those of you who are so sympathetic to the enemy, to protect me if our borders are ever violated.
i can loan you my ak47 if youll give it back when your thru with it!
So I can't depend on even you???
Most here would defend you were it to come to that hairlip. Though they will argue with you and at times ridicule, no one wishes to see you suffer or come to harm. Most appreciate your service, if not your perspective.
sure you can i got an AR 14 too! and plenty of ammo!
tyree is on your ignore list.
[If this is so, then ignore him. The site team is really tired of you picking fights. We don't have time to babysit a bunch of WATBs. Another site monitor told you to knock it off yesterday. If you can't, we can. End of-Sitemonitor]
Told me to knock anything off....I never got any message, thank you.
If that little baby is bothering you with his whining, I'll stop. Although all I am doing is putting up an ignore message, no insults or slander. But if the baby is crying too much I'll let the baby be.
here but if the attackers are on the shore you can swing by my place anytime after they land and grap your choice of some old bolt actions.
ya prefer a double and some buck to go with it.
who did you fight?
Japs
Gooks
Krauts
camel jockeys
towel heads
wetbacks
[add you favorite patriotic "enemy slur' here]
help me out hero. your borders are already being violated.
BY CORPORATIONS!
They import people for the jobs you don't want and they ship the jobs you do want overseas. Or, better yet, they cry about a labor shortage then ship YOUR job overseas.
what have they got you on? Son, trust me we're in no danger of imminante violation. You can come out of the closet now.
I'm shocked.
..I just am not going to torture anyone!
The USA DOES NOT TORTURE - Get it?
A couple of months ago there was a special on my local PBS about interrogators from WWII. They said the best way to get captured German soldiers to talk was to give them a hot shower, clean clothes, and a good meal.
One guy said, "A nice steak did more to open locked lips then any physical violence ever could have."
I believed him, still do.
either that it's true. I know what would work on me if some one from another nation came armed into my country. And torturing me wouldn't help him if info was what he REALLY wanted.
Dumbest. Talking point. Ever.
This one's for you dude. I'm sure it's way over your head.
Pink Floyd
Barbara Bush: 'Why should we hear about body bags and deaths? It's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?'
Some people simply need to believe "We good, they bad" It's as much nuance as they can handle.
you nailed it.
HOW EXPENSIVE CIGARRETTES ARE!
I'd give them whatever they wanted after they lavished the expensive gifts of cigarettes on me. a loose cigarrette is at least 50 cents, dammit. that's nearly priceless.
Using cigarettes here might be considered a business-expense, so you can write it off on your taxes.
not going to say it
My thoughts exactly.
From the same NY Times article [bold mine]:
I agree.
1) There should be an investigation FIRST.
2) NO president decides who is to be prosecuted.
an Obama appointee, who is not beld held up by a repug senator, who has nads. Holder ain't the one.
You know maybe he could spend more time with them and have someone as you say "with the nads" get some work done there at the office? Makes sense to me.
...I saw a movement earlier today, to impeach Baybee. I wanted to sign on, however it said it could ONLY accept signatures from US citizens.
I'm not a US citizen....I am a green card holder...
Will the above grass roots initiative count my signature??
I voted a few days ago. I entered my name and email address and got a 4-digit confirmation number. Go for it!
It's just starting to hit the news wires, but it seems that the memos admit to killing some of the detainees while being tortured.
http://www.pubrecord.org/torture/845-cia-watc...
How about it, Obama. Is murder something you can sweep under the rug as being in the past? What exactly would these guys have to do before you would finally take action?
and, the sad thing is, we'll never know how many died that way.
In my opinion, the 'enhanced interrogation' was done because of the Bush administration's need for vengeance following 9/11, their enjoyment of the sick sport of it all and their desire to dominate/sexually degrade people. It was never an attempt to gather viable intelligence.
The old saying is true, 'You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar'.
what would you want with a bunch of sticky flies?
;)
I actually was thinking the same thing.
Thanks :)
But I don't buy it that these Iagos were sitting around humiliating the Muslim sensibilities for vengeance concerning 9/11. The people who committed the torture might have thought this is what this was about but the puppet masters who signed off on this horror have most certainly read Sun Tzu and aren't that stupid. Machiavelli as well.
Purposefully humiliating an entire group of people in the most obscene way possible for the purpose of total emasculation and the creation of a sense of futile impotence is well, shall we say, possible.
Who knows the truth. Whatever it is, it's sick as hell.
and we will never know the whole truth.
They went about it in the best way possible.
Iraq was destroyed and humiliated beyond breaking point.
Then theres all the torture done to nationals of other muslim countries, creating future blowback on an unprecedented scale.
Only blind fools and end time 'rapturists' would have done what they did. It suited Israel to have another country join their ranks of grand war criminal too, makes what they do, not so bad. Israel corrupted the US into this pit of illegalness.
Israel is Eric Harris and America is Dylan Klebold, evil leading and corrupting the dumb.
Who now cares about the 1400 murdered in Gaza, the world has a new shiny thing to howl over. well played Israel.
.
Too bad the military apologists got to frame the process from the get go.
Waterboarding.
Gee, that doesn't sound threatening or lethal.
Throw a little Beach Boys in the background and you would think they were talking about surfing.
Heck, might as well call them facials.
Wouldn't it be harder to downgrade the seriousness if we all started referring to it as water torture?
This would be a more accurate description and clearly defines the subject.
It would also position anyone defending the action as being in tacit agreement that they are supporting torture.
It puts their values in question from the start.
Next they'll tell us how the rack is just for therapeutic spinal alignment,
What's with this spoiling those detainees with free healthcare?
Theres maybe a figure of about 100 missing bodies. people who died and got an undocumented shallow grave.
Some of the key points that will not be mentioned in many places.
They had cages on US ships at one point, battery hen style cages for prisoners in transit or with no place on land for them to go to.
Torture and rape of detainee's children was common in some places, Abu Gharib for example. This was admitted in documentation in the court cases of those dumb NG MPs, their officers deliberately made themselves missing while the CIA types took over the control of the NG grunts for the torture sessions.
One of the typical questions by interrogators was "did you fight Israel in 1973", from this we can assume that Israeli intel people were working for the CIA at some of the detainee places, US gov officials would not care two hoots about some ancient forgotten mid east conflict. This would only be a question of concern to third party contractors, and its puzzling to wonder what would they do if somebody said 'Yes I fought Israel', were there repercussions.
There was is a Pakistani woman doctor/scientist, she was arrested with her small daughter and handed over to the CIA in Afghanistan.
Seems they lost her daughter, she dropped off the list of detainees.
Missing presumed raped and murdered by some US gov officials.
We have documented abuses as bad as anything the SS did in WW2, the only thing missing was death camps proper, and smoking chimneys.
But we do have Camp Bucca down near the border with Kuwait, 20,000 inmates (of all sexes and ages) held without trial.
and this stuff just sickens me. Worst of all, the madness continues.
ps, as always, your posts are spot-on tonight :)
I mean, sure, all the politi-sphere is atwitter, but Joe and Jane American could give two shits about these memos.
Keep it down! American Idol is on!
Thats all it would have taken. People have to eat.
How can anyone believe that KSM planned anything about 9/11 from...what was that he said again? "A to Z" If you waterboarded me dozens and dozens of times I can't even imagine the things I would confess. They could make me say it but they couldn't make me believe it. And to think that Mr. Big Ears isn't going to have his justice dept.prosecute anyone for this. Fascism has indeed come to America.
pass is wrong for the very same reason that torturers did not get a pass at Nuremberg, and the architects of torture certainly didn't. There is an increasing pattern of state brutality, given the horrors authored by prior administrations in other backyards. Lots of people went for Pinochet funded one way plane trips over the ocean, and died of natural causes under detention by the Shah of Iran, and had heart failure when crossing paths with the Contras, etc. It's a cancer that is only in temporary remission if it isn't cut out.
Only dumbasses use torture.
it is a different mindset, and can only occur when you perceive your enemy as less than human
that is how the japanese were able to torture prisoners during ww2
the thing is, the procedures do more to dehumanize the captor than they do the captive
look at the germans during ww2
the ss were not human
and if there are not prosecutions...we will be less of a nation
just as we were post nam
were worse though. The military thugs are never quite as nasty as the little spooks of the intel services. Not to detract from the REALLY "dedicated men and women protesting Ameirca" who REFUSED to be involved in torture and EXPOSED the crimes. Those intel service people ROCK!!! Shit they're like James Bond and shit while that whathisname clown on that weirdo show whatis it? ahh "24" IS SHIT and a nasty filthy America hating crimianl pice of shit! Or did I say that already?
They kept their hands vaguely clean.
Ditto with the Germans in WW2, they used Ukrainians and other client peoples to run their death camps.
Col. Jack Jacobs has it right! And that's the kind of truely "dedicated men and women working to protect America" that actually accomplish that goal!!! I've said it since the Abu Ghraib story broke and I can't believe it's going on 5 years now. And we're still having this discussion??? TORTURE does this: creates more resistance against the torturers; works as a recruiting tool for resistance fighters against the torturers; produces useless intellegence(you know unless you're doing the whole witch dunking thing and then I'm sure the intel is accurate) that is unreliable, and more often false leading to huge wastes in manpower, time, and cost; in cases of repressed communities exposed to widespread torture increased radicalization, etc., etc. all leading to increase in torturers home nations troops being targeted for attack. INTEROGATION that is NOT TORTURE is what Col. Jacobs KNOWS does this: produces frigging good accurate actionable intel which saves lives on every side!!! WHICH WOULD YOU PREFER??? Which works? Which keeps America safer? What frigging part of "the idiots who orderd and committed torture are frigging criminals" do people NOT understand?
No Immunity For Those Who Authorised, "Sancitioned", Ordered, or Committed TORTURE! PERIOD! THAT IS OUR LAW! Why is this even remotely an issue? Christ on a cracker!
Justice Department is considering the appointment of a Special Prosecutor to investigate the torture issue and may consider still, prosecutions.
I wonder who will eventually consume a belly full of crow?
I just want a plate full of that there JUSTICE. Little freedom and liberty for ALL on the side would be nice.
266 times on 2 men. What were they thinking? How stupid and cruel do you have to be to torture 2 guys hundreds of times? This makes me sick. First they said they water-boarded a couple of guys a couple of times. Now it is 266 times. One time of torture were one too many. But I want the doctors that let it pass investigated and brought to justice. They have no business being doctors to the public after the atrocities they supervised.
Kinda destroys the notions that we were initially fed, i.e., that it was only used sparingly and as a last resort. Kinda sounds like sadistic actions by sadistic rulers. The actual field operatives who performed the actual acts were contacting the higher ups and telling them, out of concern, that it wasn't working and nothing was being gained, only to be met with orders to continue.
Also the big wingnuts whoop de do about Obama's release when everybody already knew we were torturing. Can any body understand the lizard brains?
Trying not to use expletives and its very hard.
So you can easily imagine politicians and gov officials flying down there to witness the daily waterboarding of the arch bad guy KSM.
It would have been like a school trip to the zoo for gov officials, maybe a friday outing for well performing depts.
There must have been a flurry of charter flights for just that purpose.
Fun for all in a tropical paradise!
All i can hear is Former Preznit Chimpy Mc Monkeyshit petulantly exclaim " WE DONT TORTURE !!! "... just another fucking Neo Con lie.
please...the wingnuts are fapping away at this news
they love torture
they arent human
Let's not forget, after the illegal invasion of Iraq, the Bush administration continued to sell the war by pointing out how IMMORAL Saddam Hussein was.
Obama and the democrats are making Bush illegal invasion of Iraq , treason, torture and criminal economical disaster to our country ,, look like it is legal..
I knew as soon as Obama had selected Emanuel for his right hand person we were losers... Emanuel has even omitted he wants the democrat party to be center left. H... that is were it has been for the last 9 plus years and now is he is taking it farther. The republicans know were Obama and Emanuel is taking our party and are making all their noise so democrats will believe it is not happening..
What campaign promise has Obama keep.. Every major campaign promise Obama has broken...
Pulling the troops from Iraq..... Stopping the illegal spying.... Creating jobs for our workers (h... not only is he giving our money away as fast as Bush did , but his is given the Global Empires our money to send more of their jobs and manufacturing plants overseas. We the tax payers are paying for our own destruction by the gifts of Obama and the democrats...
Obama needs to be knock off of his high horse and come back to reality.. Obama has forgotten was main street is all about.. Living in the white house with the elite has went to his head.. Obama seems to be what Hillary stated in her campaign ,,,, that all Obama was,,, is a person with a speech.. I now believe it and the speech was all lies and BS..
As one can see I am mad as h... to have believed Obama lies and BS. The first candidate that I went all out to fund , support and vote for..
Reminding him his loyalty is to Israel first...
This beggars belief, that some flea bitten country of five million is trying to dictate to the US and the Obama administration.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=12...
The proper response to orders from Jerusalem, seems to be 'how high ?'
I would say un-fucking believable but that would be insincere.
I'm desperately awaiting someone to explain why things like this are not totally disturbing. Most of us are sick of this bullshit.
Explanation?
Anyone?
Bueller?
pete, obama is the best friend the corporations and the repigs could have asked for! he has never had an original idea in his life , what you see with the silenceing of trials for the bush criminals is most probably one of the reasons the democrats who were more then complicent in the bush government crimes allowed him to be our next dictator in chief, looking for elimination of fisa, homeland security[faschisim] free speach zones , habiaus corpus, every constitutional right bush took from us, [faschisim] wanting your kids out of iraq ,afganistan [faschisim] its not on his agenda, your getting bs razzel dazzel politics, its more of the same ,its just a different day , and a different way of shoveling manure in your face, and the doobbys who are willing to sell you out are legion ,obama could bash your first born in the head with a louisville slugger and they would give you a good reason for doing it,
As Thom Hartmann pointed out today, the United States EXECUTED a Japanese guy after WWII for waterboarding and American soldier.
Obama Is just as bad as Bush.. If McCain had won the election and was doing the same thing as Obama we would have been outrage..
Where is the difference from the crinimal policies of Bush and the ones Obama are pushing.. The driver of the get a way car is just as guilty as the person he protects
Obama lied to us on his campaign trail and he has now join the ranks of Bush and his criminal mob...
If McShrub had been elected (perish the thought) I have no doubt we would be at war with Iran, and probably Somalia, as well. Hell, let's throw in North Korea, too. Unless you think he would resist the war
cries of the neocons.
Personally, I have no doubt.
they weren't tortured to get information. They were tortured to get false confessions so the facsist neocons could justify the invasions.
Repeat it. It's the only reasonable explanation. They tortured because they were told to. They were told to get specific justifications (lies) for the failed rationale for the start of the war. Bush is on record to "Not let [him] down" regarding the torture. Cheney stopped the investigation by the CIA of the interrogation practices. The NY Times article quotes one CIA report that said one "interrogator" was becoming "inhuman" because of what he was doing.
This is sick and twisted - from top to bottom.
It was sick and twisted when they said that the torture had only taken place a couple of times to a couple of individuals. Now we are learning that it was systemic and sustained.
I am as cynical and skeptical as any, and I still have trouble comprehending the mentality of these monsters.
I agree.
Truly, the scope of the evil deeds done by Bushco boggles the mind.
I signed up last night
:)
he was a US ARMY ambulance driver in Italy and spent MONTHS dug in below Monte Casino while the German artillery pounded their emplacements from high ground and Luftwaffe dropped bombs on them. There were lots of injuries and deaths on BOTH sides... and lots of wounded German prisoners came thru his outfit during those battles.
Dad was a midwestern farm boy who had grown up in a German-speaking household. It was his job MANY TIMES to "lossen up" German prisoners before their formal interrogations. He INSISTED that his best interrogation "tools" were American Cigaretts, FRESH FRIED EGGS, and bottles of Italian wine.
My father served in the Navy in Europe during WW2. He served on an LST carrying German prisoners back to England.
My memories of his relating the experience are vague, but he never mentioned anything about torture. Far from it. I still have pictures of him and some of the prisoners. Can't tell absolutely from the pictures, of course, but the prisoners I saw in the photos looked relied to be out of the combat.
Next thing you know they'll think it's okay to burn prisoners with lit cigarettes, stab them with syringes or beat them over their heads with lambchops, sides of beef, etc...
They are that stupid you know?
..two terror suspects has rocked the country.
Apparently it HASN'T rocked anything. Otherwise something other than few thousand people signing petitions would've been done by now. I'm not holding my breath but doing and talking and yelling as loud as possible to get people to stand up and say:THE USA DOES NOT TORTURE!
Prosecute these BASTARDS!
Working at getting their rocks off. They obviously loved doing it.
Oh great more red meat for the trolls.
Too bad Lents over
When they stick to fish-heads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hWZqllm3mQ
"Though it may be true that, at least in history, values, be they of a nation or of humanity as a whole, do not survive unless we fight for them; neither combat (nor force) can alone suffice to justify them. Rather it must be the other way: the fight must be justified and guided by those values. We must fight for the truth and we must take care not to kill with the very weapons we use in its defense; it is at this doubled price that we must pay in order that our words assume once more their proper power."
Albert Camus on Values
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