Focus on the Family employee busted for the online luring of an underage girl
(Graphic via Denver Post)
James Dobson's group makes the news in a sex case.
A Colorado Springs man who narrates the Bible in Spanish on CDs and works in the Spanish broadcasting department of Focus on the Family appeared in court Monday in Golden on two felony counts of using the Internet to lure a 15-year-old girl for sex, The Denver Post reports.
Juan Alberto Ovalle, 42, was arrested Friday when he drove to Lakewood to meet the girl — who turned out to be an undercover officer — after discussing various sexual acts he wanted to perform with her, the Jefferson County District Attorney’s Office said.
---
Ovalle “came to know the Lord at the age of 14,” according to a Web site offering his Spanish Bible narration for sale, and founded Spanish Christian Audio in 2001 to “help Christian organizations with their audio needs.”
After first encountering the officer who was posing as a 15-year-old girl on the Internet last week, Orvalle made “sexually graphic statements in a chat room to a person he believed to be an underage teen,” the district attorney’s office said in a release. When the undercover officer said her mom wouldn’t be home the next day, Orvalle said he was “horny” and made arrangements to come to her house, according to an arrest affidavit...read on
jeebus.
Well, he was focusing on the family, just the wrong members of the wrong family.
Sick!
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
... from that ladder to heaven they're trying to climb.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9TGj2jrJk8
I couldn't find the Weird Al Yankovic version, hope it'll do.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I'll bet this freak finds the prospect of universal gay marriage disgusting.
Why's he a freak, because he's religious or a sexual predator or a hypocrite?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I think certain sexual predators need psychiatric assistance. In a sick way, they're victims too.
are you joking? you have to be joking.
"defendant, why'd you seduce that 13 year old loli.."
"ITS NO MY FAULT I BLAME TEH SOCIETY!!1"
*****
I think this story is hysterical in that it spotlights a blatant hypocrisy but it won't get any momentum. just like when FOX News producer Aaron Bruns got busted for downloading child porn.
but common man. sexual predators are victims? try telling that one at a rape clinic, dooder.
I once interviewed a sex offender awaiting trial at Cook County prison here in Chicago. This boy was twenty-two, 6'2' maybe 200lbs. and one of the most handsome men I've ever seen. After a few sessions with the young man, I gained enough confidence to ask him why would someone like him have to take sex from anyone. He told me that he couldn't get an erection unless he forcibly took sex. This young man needed help.
You've got a hell of a lot to learn.
that young man needed to be put down. like a sick dog.
are you a parent?
Well, aren't you just a beacon of light in our society... Let's just kill everyone that does or thinks about something/anything that you think is wrong......
There is quite a difference between "blaming society" and suffering "mental health" issues.
Some people do in fact have mental health-related problems regarding sexual misbehavior. It does not excuse their actions, it simply frames them in the correct context.
Raygun et al completely dimantled the mental health infrastructure in this country. After all, prison beds are way more profitable than mental hospitals. Too bad people have to suffer (both the victim and the ill person) so that the prison complex can obtain their sacrosant profit.
A lot of these crimes could be preventable, if some of these predators had been diagnosed *before* the crime.
He's NOT religious, he's a hypocrite. He is a fox hiding among the chickens. But he will be forgiven his trespasses because he's one of them.
Christian, they are not.
So they stop being Christian when they get caught. Interesting.
The christians said the same things about James Kopp and Eric Rudolph after they were identified as christian terrorists. The bombings and mass murders were okay as long as those doing it weren't named.
Most times, the rabidly religious agree with abominable behaviours of what others are doing until they get caught, then they're disowned. Admittedly, most christians wouldn't approve of kiddie porn, but denying he was ever one of their own is appalling.
In my opinion, it is a protection mechanism by religious groups (or any sort of organized group of people for that matter). Recognizing these flawed people belonged to their religion would point at the fact that their religion may be flawed too. Or that religion was not the key differenciator between right/wrong or moral/inmoral, since their members can still commit acts of "evil."
Remember, a significant part of religious people refute atheism, by claiming that a lack of faith equals a lack in the moral compass department.
Acts like the ones described in the article for this thread, point at the fact that religions may beindeed irrelevant. For presence of religion, in the case of the pedophile in the article, was not the deciding factor between right or wrong. The biggest fear religious people have regarding atheist is that we're supposed to be eeeeevil and inmoral, since only religion can provide a moral compass...
If they were to recognize this person as a member, then in their minds they would be allowing religion to be as morally debased as us atheist. And thus eliminating any sort of moral high ground these assholes think they posses over atheists, or even other religions
His fake family values are no better.
Well, for a family man that's trying to kill two birds with one stone: find someone to be a wife and daughter both.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The only ones who "think about the children" as much as right-wing Christians are pedophiles.
Interesting quote, "Ovalle 'came to know the Lord at the age of 14...' according to a Web site offering his Spanish Bible narration for sale, and founded Spanish Christian Audio in 2001..."
And considering his target was a 15 year old girl, that would make for an interesting psychological profile.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Did he meet the lord online too? This might be the beginning of his problems.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU3JrXt_cPk
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
ha. In the Vatican, its just another day at the office, since the age of consent in Vatican City is 12.
Where is the hypocrisy in this religion if the Pope agrees that 12 year olds are fair game?
just thought I'd mention, that Protestants, and Lutherans, and Baptists - you know, the abortion-clinic-bombin' types of christians, the anti-gay types of christians, the racist types of christians .... they're also fairly anti-Catholic.
I was actually instructed, when I was 12, that the Catholic church was in violation of the 4th Commandment. because they worship the Father, the Son, and the Virgin Mary. and they setup these statues of her and give away little necklace pendants of her.
whereas, non-Catholics worship the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
anyway ... James Dobson and the Focus On The Family people are not Catholic. they're the Americanized anti-Catholic type of christian. I would wager that neither James Dobson, nor about 90% of his customer base, really give a rat's ass what the pope has to say.
not that I didn't meet my fair share of pedo lurkin' "youth ministers" in my time. but I'm just sayin..
Thanks for the clarification.
I'll admit I don't know much about religion, but you highlighted more similarities than differences between Catholics and Christians.
They are full of hate, consumed with fear and like young children for all the wrong reasons.
fair enough.
yaaaa... I quit for a good reason.
a lot of em, actually
I tip my bong to you.
I dabbled in Buddhism but being spiritual is a lot of work and I am lazy.
ya, its just worth mentioning, thats all. Dobson isn't Catholic, he speaks more to the snake handler types. lol. Catholics preach "don't use condoms, and feed the starving". Baptists, Protestants, Lutherans ... they preach "don't use condoms, and bomb the starving"
With napalm, burnt?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Wed, 04/08/2009 - 08:33 — burnt
Although you're right about the Baptist view, Mariolatry wasn't formerly adapted into Catholicism until the Assumption of Mary in the "Apostolic Constitution of Pope Pius XII: Munificentissimus Deus (AAS 42 [1950], 760-762, 767-769) which proclaimed the Assumption of Mary as a dogma of faith." Before then, it was an undercurrent, sometimes not so under. Virges Oeuvres may give room for pause, and there were the heresies named by the Roman Catholic church: the Nestorians and the Monophysites, and the whole Theotokos vs Christotokos thingy. In the Renaissance, Cathedrals were in honor of Mary, like the Notra Dame.
However, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost were from the 4th century Councils of Nicea and Athanasia, (hence the creed names recited almost every Sunday by the Catholics, as well as Orthodox and Anglican. But that was controversial in it's day, since the followers of Arius wanted to maintain the monad church of the Jews, whilst the Trinitarians was favored by Constantine, who primarily converted on his deathbed.
To be technical the Magisterium insists they do not worship Mary but revere her, the distinction being reverence as in honor.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.wayfarerschapel.org/your-visit/arc...
One of the few churches I've been to. Used to go for Christmas Eve and Easter services.
I think I was there for the architecture (concept by Frank Lloyd Wright) and not the God.
I forgot one relevant heresy the Sabellianists.
My father said when he was in kid in the '30's it was common practice in his area to attend Christmas Midnight Mass at the local Catholic Church.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
the rightwing protestants (especially at the FRC) have not only discovered the joys of rightwing catholicism, they are attempting to merge evangelicalism with the top-down hierarchy of catholicism.
i give you the theocon movement (see, Blackwater/scahill)
"The century now drawing to a close has been the greatest century of missionary expansion in Christian history. We pray and we believe that this expansion has prepared the way for yet greater missionary endeavor in the first century of the Third Millennium. The two communities in world Christianity that are most evangelistically assertive and most rapidly growing are Evangelicals and Catholics."
http://www.leaderu.com/ect/ectmenu.html
*THAT* was the word I was trying to think of, THANK YOU!
man, it just wasn't coming to me so the only thing I could think of was "snake handler types".
gets horny? For underage girls?
I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked!
"Let's talk dirty to the animals"
Yes, its nice to see that hypocrisy lives on at the Focus on the Family and other religious organizations, but I think we are missing the forest for the trees on this one.
Doesn't anyone have an issue with the activities of the police that are tantamount to entrapment? Mr. Ovalle never actually talked to a teenager, he only believed and acted on that belief. If the police officer posing as a teenager had not been in that chat room, would Mr. Ovalle had acted.
Don't get me wrong, I am against sex with minors, but did Mr. Ovalle actually commit a crime or did he commit a crime of thought?
Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!
www.PhoenixJustice.com
Ovalle was acting on the belief that he was speaking to a teenager.
The moment he showed up for a face-to-face meeting, he's now ACTING on his thoughts/beliefs, and can be arrested.
So, if he had chatted with a 15 y/o girl who said she was a middle-aged cop, and then met up with her and had sex, that would have been legal?
I'm all about punishing this guy, but the entrapment thing is starting to bother me. I'm fairly sure the cop didn't have the actual personality of a 15 y/o, and I know the cop didn't have the motivation of a 15 y/o. Do we know that he would have hooked up with a 15 y/o that he had chatted with? I don't think we know that. We strongly suspect it.
if an undercover sells me what he calls pot and it is really oregano, do I go to jail for possession of marijuana even though I never possessed any?
Although that would likely be considered entrapment, you would also be in trouble as taking part in a conspiracy to commit a crime, although no crime took place.
The cop couldn't be charged with fraud for selling you oregano instead of weed since the courts would not uphold an illegal act (if he were not a cop).
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I never understood why cops didn't set up cars and bikes to be stolen and bust the thieves for that. It has happened before, but it isn't as frequent as the drug and prostitution set ups.
What would make you feel more violated? Knowing your neighbor was getting laid or stoned or having your neighbor steal your car?
Actually, conspiracy requires two or more persons and since a police officer cannot knowingly commit a crime, there cannot be conspiracy in this case.
Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!
www.PhoenixJustice.com
That's why I included my parenthetical statement.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It still comes down to: If the police officer posing as a teenager had not been in that chat room, would Mr. Ovalle had acted.
Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!
www.PhoenixJustice.com
Once Ovalle established this person to be an underage teen, and then made arrangements to meet for sex...and showed up at the designated location, he committed attempted sexual assault.
Mr. Ovalle never established anything. He "believed" the person to be a teenager, when in fact the person was an adult under cover police officer posing as a teenager. This is the problem with criminalizing thought and is a dangerous road we travel.
Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!
www.PhoenixJustice.com
...predators. If I get busted trying to get with a teenager who I believe is only 14, It's my responsibility to keep myself safe by getting the fuck out that situation.
Thought would mean he simply kept it to himself, wacked off to that, and called it a day.
No, since he typed and interacted with the teen, there was no longer just thought... but action, involving the minor. Thus that enters the proposition arena.
Are you sure you even want to go down the road of turning this into a free speech issue?
Actually, come to think of it, isn't it Focus on the Family whose been accused to helping the police entrap people in pedophilia stings, but because they're broadcast on a TV show, queer up the resulting case trial?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
According to some tenets of Christian faith, you are just as sinful if you thought of the act even if you didn't commit it. That's based upon the belief that all sin is equal in the eyes of God.
I've operated with the thought that if I thought about a sin and it doesn't induce harm upon myself or others (in the long run) or destroy property... I'm gonna do it.
"When are we going to stop trying to tell elected officials what to do. Our job is to spend the taxpayers' money the best way we can." -- Tommy Watkins, Justice of the Peace, Crawford County, Arkansas
It also sounds Aristotelian with the thought preceding the act, laying the groundwork for the Socratic/Platonic Ideal, influential on people like St Augustine.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Aristotle was a pupil of Plato. And Plato was taught by Socrates. I think you got your timelines wrong regarding who layed the groundwork for whom...
Although you're right, at present I'm reading Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics, and was using them as seperate subjects linked by the common theme of ideation.
Additionally, I seperated it that way because Aristotle refered to ideas leading to virtue through action, while Socrates/Plato created the Platonic Ideal, a prejudice for the world of ideas over the materialist world, where errors can creep in to the more tangible design.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You've got a head full of esoteric knowledge (not a bad state of affairs by any measure) but this statement of yours -- "while Socrates/Plato created the Platonic Ideal, a prejudice for the world of ideas over the materialist world, where errors can creep in to the more tangible design." -- is way off base. Socrates and Plato had very little in common and historians of philosophy are of a consensus that, if Plato had had a vote at Socrates' trial, he too would have voted for exile/death.
"Secular humanism -- a fearless, realistic world view replete with doubt and scepticism that attempts to attain an unachievable state of equilibrium between and among the human qualities of reason, intuition, imagination, memory, ethics and common sense.
But wouldn't your last statement be speculative unless Plato wrote a letter or some other document saying that?
And who would blame him since the state executed Socrates.
It's also my understanding that Socrates never wrote his views down, and it was his students writing about him, primarily Plato's Five Dialogues, which I've read, which has been passed down. Some think Plato also linked his own ideas to Socrates as the source.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
although I would have appreciated it if you had just cut your post after the "you're right" part.
I know you are a smart and educated fellow, and I know that you know better than that :-).
Would this be counted more on the Family side? or the Values side?
I can never tell with the Family Values crowd when they do something like this. It took me a while to realize that Ted Haggard's offence was on the Values side because I'm sure he got a better value by getting his drugs from his prostitue, at least I hope he worked out a package deal.
Come on, the affliction knows no political party. If a republican is a pedophile, what is the democrat? Why, a pedophile of course. So it's hypocrisy? Yeah, right.
... is acting counter to one's stated beliefs.
Political affiliation has nothing to do with it; if your career is based on upholding family values and a Christian ministry, it's hypocrisy when you're exposed as a pederast.
I can't think of ONE democrat involved in an underage-sex scandal. Democrats like to bone their secretaries and other people's wives. Repubs are the ones into public bathroom blowjobs and children.
The real issue here isn't Republican sexual proclivities - it's that they are CONSTANTLY BITCHING about how everyone else should live their lives and then they do the EXACT OPPOSITE.
That, my blind, uneducated Republican troll, is HYPOCRISY.
To be technical mark foley was a former Democrat, but wasn't caught until after he switched to the otherside, but that doesn't say when he started.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
you flippers are tired, and you look scared. Go back to concern troll school my little one... for you are not ready for the big leagues yet.
I shall name you "Banjo." I see greatness in you... one day they will refer to you as "Banjo, king of the concern sea monkeys!"
I know that undercover officer at the Jeffco DA. Sounds like I owe her a gin.
...by Focus on the family.
* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.
We were just in denial, I mean the signs were all there: with all their sanctimonious asshole attitude and actions.
.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
... he was just getting ready for the right-winger TEA PARTY.
... biiiiiiig difference!
I still get a chuckle about all these conservative assholes carrying teabags around. The joke has never been so much on anyone as them. LOL!
Really surprised by this? Seriously. There's a video of Dobson going really deep into pornography while lecturing a bunch of teenies about the dangers of pornography. He had a blackboard and everything. The only way he could've known some of the things he was talking about was if he was very much into watching pornography. It's on youtube.
his family values.
to the crackers in FoF, he was a dirty brown infiltrator
No matter who it is, it's always someone "disturbed" or "not in tune with God". There's no way they'll ever admit to responsibility in encouraging these fuckers. It'll always be deny, deny, deny.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
that is was someone of the opposite sex. Don't think it usually works that way with this group of Christians.
eom
old time nemesis of these assholes.
Meaning, the enemy of my enemy is probably not my friend...
Focus on the Minors.
-GSD
Maybe in prison he'll find some religion that doesn't encourage the rape of girls. That leaves out Judaism, Islam and Christianity.
... which is fascinating, if you think about it.
Spare the rod, save the child?
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Tweens don't listen anymore to Rod Stewart.
Neither do I since he switched to jazz standards.
Did y'all know when jazz first came out it was a dirty word comparable to our jism?
It also meant hopped up or stoned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUogzf1h2UY
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
... or normal grown people for that matter.
I looked it up, and the age of consent in Mexico is 12-18, conditional upon the age gap between partners, and regional laws can override federal.
So there's a severe age gap here making it illegal in Mexico, and Americans aren't allowed to have sex with anyone under 16-18 in another country where it's not illegal, because they can face prosecution here.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
...that the states with the youngest age of consent in the USA are located, mostly, in the bible belt.
when more kids (labor) needed to work on the farms.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
old pious and upright Christian men were not in the mood to deal with strong grown up women.
You gots to catch them women before they go off to college, and get all educated and independent and realize that they deserve more from life... than an dead end relationship with an abusive piece of sh*t loser in a redneck hell hole popping babies, ya know...
in much of the same area today...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
... is of the opinion that "if it ain't broken, don't fix it."
The BBC had a special where scientists were using the skulls of middle-aged Jewish men of Roman era Palestine and came up with this potential image of Jesus:
http://bibledudes.com/images/other/jesus_bbc.jpg
This image is based on the controversial Shroud of Turin:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jesusface1.gif
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Why am I not surprised? These family values jokers are so predictable.
...........the living brain donor who puts the 'e' in 'holey'.
'
So what else is new? Hypocrisy in action - time after time, after time.
Here is the Affidavit In Support of Warrantless Arrest filed in JeffCo court (warning: it's graphic and disgusting)
http://coloradoindependent.com/wp-content/upl...
The affidavit clearly states that the undercover officers "were online portraying a teenage girl under the age of fifteen."
This means Ovalle thought he was communicating with a girl either 13 or 14 years old.
To all the apologists out there - read the affidavit, THEN try to defend Ovalle.
I thought Hispanic guys always went with the girls with the big ta-tas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGsXw11D0yA
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
White American boys are the ones all about the big ta-tas :-)
Extra points for knowing about Xuxa, one of Satan's minions for sure. (I grew up in another country, where I was exposed to this abherration of nature).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V7DjWIQRxQ
(I think that little blonde girl grew up to be laura ingraham.)
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
just like the previous administration supported the troops.
The surprise has worn off this kind of news. As far as I'm concerned, "Christian" has now come to be synonymous with "hypocritical pervert". Sad, but you can thank the batshit Christers for that conclusion.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
You should read Richard Dawkins. he feels that religion provides people with an excuse and a rationalization for destructive behavior. And he entertains the thought that there could be more personal responsibility without religion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/opinion/07B...
Not entirely new since it's similar to the Aristotelian/Socratic/Platnoic view, as well as J J Bachofen in
http://books.google.com/books?id=3qhQuWPNUckC...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Wow philosophy is dead according to David Brooks? I immediately forwarded the article to my friend who is getting his PhD in philosophy at Berkley.
He already replied, he immediately dropped out.
He said to say thank you ys.
I don't think Brooks proved his case. Aristotle wrote in book 3 of the Nichomachean ethics a rather Teleological arguement that humans are virtuous (morals) pretty much by design, so there must be a moral agent that made us so.
But then he also argued that by practicing virtuous actions we could become virtuous agents, essentially reprogramming ourselves.
But since the Victorian era (at least) people have been using Empiricism and Lockianism that at birth we are a tabula rasa ready for programming. This goes back to Protagoras of Abdera and his belief that truth is not discoverable, but is empirical, relative to experience. That is what is under threat by this "new" view.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I misspelled Platonic at 9:32.
Now you see why no one tries to convert me anymore. After awhile they want to change the subject.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Another, better discussion of the subject comes from Robert Pirsig and his writings on the Metaphysics of Quality and his Inquiries into Morals. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and Lila
The God Delusion is an amazing book. My favorite point in that is how offensive it is to refer to "Christian children" or "Muslim children", instead of letting them wait to get older to decide for themselves what they choose to worship (or not).
http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2009/04/...
recent Dawkins treat for you Maude, Richard rips Tony Blair.
Nice one. Where was Blair's religion when he quashed an investigation into BAE Systems' bribery of the Saudis?
But I have a deep dislike for Dawkins. He is far too dismissive and arrogant for my tastes.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
I love when other people project their own prejudices on Dawkins, who is a remarkably polite man in spite of all the verbal abuse he gets.
"Christian" has now come to be synonymous with "hypocritical pervert". Sad, but you can thank the batshit Christers for that conclusion.
I'm can't call myself a Christian and a small part of it is the stain they have put on the faith. They worship Jesus but apply little to nothing of what he says or did to their lives.
Jesus said nothing one way or the other about gays or abortion. He however did spend his entire adult life helping the poor and the sick. He once noted something along the line of..when you do it to the least of these you do it to me.
What part of that do the crusader Christians not understand.Why are so many of them filled with hate. Surely they would deny it is hate but they may want to look again because the example they are forwarding in others eyes is exactly that. A little more tact might help.
"Ovalle “came to know the Lord at the age of 14,” according to a Web site offering his Spanish Bible narration for sale"
This story is kind of like a Hispanic version of "The Reader"*
*Remote humor. Only works if you've seen "The Reader"
Ah, so it's "focus" as in the context of telescopic lenses. That makes sense.
Ovalle “came to know the Lord at the age of 14”
I'd say it's a reasonable guess that his acquaintanceship has fallen off somewhat since then.
It's always those FAKE religious, Reslug Wing-NutO's, that are the real sickos.
are the REAL religious people the ones who are the FAKE sickos?
;-)
WWJMSLL?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
actually works at the other office, Poke Us in the Fannie.
A republican attempting to have sex with a minor. Unbelievable. Who does he think he is, a Priest or something? Oh wait, it was a girl, Priests only do little boys. Typical behaviour from the lunatic fringe....
You are one sick bastard.....
It's against the law to have sex with 42 yr old police officer posing as a 15 yr old girl? Would seem they're both in need of therapy.
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