Forbes Editor Ozanian: The Middle class has a house, two cars and a stock portfolio
By John Amato Monday Jun 01, 2009 11:00am
Michael Ozanian, a Forbes national editor who I've posted about before. (FOX's Ozanian compares Hillary to Goebbels ) has a ludicrous view of what the middle class is in America, but why wouldn't he---he's a Saturday FOX Stock regular on Forbes on FOX and they never can tell the truth. The segment was from a couple of weeks ago that focused on VP Biden saying that Unions help the middle class and I just had to get this up. These rich Wall Streeters hate unions so they come up with bogus info to lie through the show. One idiot on the panel says benefits are robust in the private sector. Another says union member shouldn't be so antagonistic to their employers. For who? But Ozanian is the worst of the bunch and he gets rewarded with another show. Right Wingers take care of each other.
Ozanian: In general Unions have never worked. They have been detriment to the economy as Jack pointed out.
Asman: What about a hundred years ago, they weren't a detriment to the economy a hundred years ago.
Ozanian: You wanna go back to the way we were a hundred years ago?
There was a time when Unions did some good.
Ozanian: If you're in the middle class int this country, you have two cars, you have a house, you have some investment portfolio, you have very high standards for your food that you eat. That, you don't get in any to the other countries with high unions so you can take your safety net and stick it.
Asman: Give Neil a chance.
Neil Weinberg: As a Forbes editor you can say that that is average, two cars and a big house. 50,000 a year. I'm sorry, the average American worker does not feel wealthy, does not feel comfortable
Asman: It's still better than China where middle class income is at 3000dollars a year.
So now the standard we have to judge ourselves, the richest country in the world is China, who have no human rights? We're lucky we don't make 3K a year. OMG. David Asman sure makes an ass out of himself. I'm so glad we all eat like pigs and don't need any security to fall back on. I think all these Stock show pricks should have their salaries posted directly under their names whenever they go on these shows if they are going to lie with abandon like this.
Ozanian also is part of a new show called "Sports Money." Please leave him some comments.
By the way, Quentin Hardy is quite good on these telecasts even though I cut him out of this one. Here's his Facebook if you want to leave him a nice message.
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Chomsky on Class Warfare, most of what you need to know, links here.
Incorrectly identified by me as being from 1998. It was 1995. The intro can be found here. It is available as a CD from Googlazon here. There are other sources which may cheaper.
Elizabeth Warren, the coming collapse of the middle class, here.
Did he mean middle-class is two cars, a big house, and making $50k year? Anyone who has two cars and a big house and is only making $50k year def got both the cars and the house via one of those shady 'no credit check' arrangements and prob lost them all by now.
n/t
an Adobe.
And am single and can't afford anything but a rent-controlled apartment and my car is 10 years old. Talk about out of touch. Geez. I can't figure out how I'd get by if I had kids!!!
The biggest emerging class at this time?
I always thought I was middle class, but I guess not. My husband and I each have a car (one six and one ten years old and all paid for thank God), but we rent our one-bedroom shotgun house and shop at Aldi's. And stock portfolio? P'shaw! I've got $24 in the bank to last me until next paycheck. I suppose I'm now kicked out of the middle class to lower class. This means the middle class IS shrinking!
Upper/Middle/Lower Class - Only the disparity necessitates the differentiation.
(OK – IOW)
Were it not for the vast disparity between classes, the labeling would be meaningless. Our societal bell-curve has become inverted, with too many on either side of the rich/poor lines. Middle class has become a struggle – and it’s not getting any easier.
I think it means we have NO middle class!!
You are either lower class or upper class in this country now.
Or you in the "unidentified class" of Bohemians like mwa'.
That I can assure you.
The bottom's gonna drop out mid-summer when all those option-ARMS recycle, and the people who have them have to start paying on the principle, instead of just the interest, and can't, and then face more foreclosures...
huge inflation spike in 2010. Another one of those Enron style stickups also.
Out of touch right wing moralists know what's best for everybody!
Then he might be more careful to not make such asinine comments, major wake up call. What an idiot that guy is.
Chinese students laugh at Geithner's assurances
"Chinese assets are very safe," Geithner said in response to a question after a speech at Peking University, where he studied Chinese as a student in the 1980s.
His answer drew loud laughter from his student audience, reflecting scepticism in China about the wisdom of a developing country accumulating a vast stockpile of foreign reserves instead of spending the money to raise living standards at home.
http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNewsAnd...
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090530_...
This is all going down like a giant game of Texas Hold 'Em. He who bluffs best wins the pot.
"The world is a stage.....blah, blah, blah."
that's becoming increasingly visible on streets across America, looking like extras who wandered away from the latest Road Warrior location shoot have?
"...you can take your safety net and stick it."
Class warfare, anyone?
unfortunately.
... where the middle class is planning on sticking their collective boots into, when the middle class has had enough.
that's what they are doing. they are slowly especially since reagan yrs disarming/weakening the middleclass. so the middleclass won't/can't do anything except beg and give to much up.
He'll be safe in some gated community or heavily secured condo.
when those "middle class" security guards don't show up for work to protect his sorry ass.
... that is a constant in history.
At some point, these assholes are so greedy... that they forget they don't pay enough "to care" to the people in charge of their security.
Probably, this country will do what it does best: take the abuse and do nothing about it. Oh, well....
In all things relevant to this discussion here:
http://www.chrismartenson.com/
These crash courses are the best I've ever seen on Peak Oil, the economy and much more. Well worth wading through....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbALvpzISz0
testing whether they can retain their official hegemony wioth the promise of "prosperity," instead of "liberty."
It seems to be working...
Never thought of it that way. Interesting.
we fell for it also.
It is the freedom to shop, donchakno'.
We have that here.
You have two kids you cannot afford. Two cars you cannot afford. A house you cannot afford but until the credit cards are maxed, well come on down to the mall.
Once all their citizens have bought automobiles and there is no fresh air left to breathe AND the oil runs dry. (Do the math).
I was making 75k per year then lost my job last month. I live in San Diego, am single and pay rent. Between the taxes that got taken out (as a single guy) and the 401k and other living expenses, I decided I had enough dough to purchase a car because a house was still waaaaay out of my league, especially in the last 2 years. San Diego median home prices were above $550,000, even in a crummy neighborhood.
And I was considered "upper" middle class? What planet is he on?
go shopping.
Sounds to me like he is suggesting China get some unions...
... where they might still be able to do some good (unlike here in America, apparently).
But then, they'll probably have to the "tank face-off" thing like back in the good old days of '89 in Tiananmen Square.
... it is that the middle class was able to access all those "perks" mainly because of organized labor.
In fact, if you translate Mr. Ozanian's from its original 'assholespeak" into normal English, it goes something like this: " LET THEM EAT CAKE "
America, have you had enough? Or do you like the abuse...
that middle class ws about $5 million.
Let's see...
We have a house, but we don't own it as much as the bank owns us. After 5 years, we are still only paying on the interest. Our ARM will switch over in 2012 (I am kind of hoping the Mayans were right about the world ending before then), we definitely will not be able to pay more than we are right now, it's a struggle.
We have 5 cars, but all of them are used, purchased for less than 2K each, and 3 of them are being sold next month.
We both work - he's self-employed, and am part-time employed and also self-employed in two different areas. We still can't pay the bills - unfortunately our home loan closed three days after my big layoff, so I couldn't back out of the house.
I had an IRA but just sent in the paperwork to cash it out as I need the money to pay the mortgage next month. No savings anymore.
Does this make us middle class, or lower class? I am confused.
What it does make me, is nervous.
And upperclass snots like this make me mad.
Sounds to me that your case is closer to being put through a wringer.
(I know my grandparents knew what a wringer was, because they had one down in their basement.)
These are the same people who scream about a judge having empathy. The disconnect is just....wow.
I rent, own one (18 year old) car, no stock portfolio. And I 'make' 4x the amount of a person in China! And no debt.
I am proudly, a member of America's 'Loser' class.
These guys are so out of touch. If anyone has these things with a 50k, even 70k salary; they are in debt. Hey, borrowing is the new cash, because anything else is not sustainable capitalism.
http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/80...
huh...I don't feel lower class
What are those stocks worth?
Interesting what he leaves out . . .
What about debt? If the "middle class" homeowner with 2 cars and a some kind of portfolio has a big mortgage (these days, possibly worth as much or more than the house), car loans and more credit card debt than he or she can pay off in a few months, is this person really middle class?
What about a pension? If you can't afford to retire, or if your "pension plan" involves selling your house and living hand to mouth, are you really middle class?
What about college for the kids? If you can't afford to educate your offspring, you aren't middle class.
What about health insurance? Millions of insured, middle class people are drastically underinsured (conditional policies, high deductibles, loopholes that exempt coverage). They can easily be wiped out by common illnesses that force them to take time off work. That's not middle class, that's marginal, hanging-on-by-the-fingernails class.
My father had paid off his mortgage, had two cars being paid, no debt, and made $50,000.
...IN THE YEAR 1980 !!
It is really, really scary to think that Ozanian is in charge of some kind of financial enterprise. It's been 29 years since this has been possible, you maroon!
Ignore that man behind the curtain...
Some of them actually believe this crap.
Be happy America. You live better than Iraqi & Palestinian refugees, the Lebanese, and Australian bushmen.
But I looooovvveee Lebanese food.
conservatards think that's when two lassie's get down tonight.
Seems he is saying, stop whining America, it could always be worse...he just doesn't tell you that it will.
Telling Americans to "stop whining" -- suck it up, serfs.
That should be enough of a clue to anyone to know that he is well out of touch with the plight of middle class Americans, nay any American that makes under 100k.
So, is he trying to tell us that we should be thankful that our nation is turning into a banana republic? And, I was always under the impression that unions were the reason why we had child labor laws, a forty hour work week, worker's rights, minimum wage, and a whole host of other things that benefited and created the middle class in America. Is he trying to tell me that in reality it was the Robber Barons who did this? God, we are truly living in the New Gilded Age.
How many people woke up one morning and found out half of that had evaporated into thin air in a split second when the the stock market bottomed out? Portfolio?? The same thing happened to that. For some folks that completely disappeared. Big house AND two cars??? Yeah.. not on 50G's a year, he must not have any kids. Maybe if you're driving around used ones and paying for liability only. Guess he's one of those aliens who doesn't need to eat at least once a day. Must be nice not to have to decide whether to buy groceries and pay utilities OR make a house payment. This guy is either on drugs or really is from another planet.
"Ozanian: If you're in the middle class int this country, you have two cars, you have a house, you have some investment portfolio, you have very high standards for your food that you eat. That, you don't get in any to the other countries with high unions so you can take your safety net and stick it."
This is laughable. Has this fool ever travelled outside the US? Take a trip to Sweden or Denmark or France and tell me how much better off we are here.
So you think that nowadays the overwhelming majority of American workers are not being taken advantage of and are getting their fair share of the value they produce? Between 1995 and 2004 worker productivity went up 2.9% per year. During the same period average household income, adjusted for inflation, was basically zero.
class America is dwindling.Its sad to say, but many of us who would like to count themselves as middle class are actually part of the class of the working poor
It's still better than China where middle class income is at 3000dollars a year.
This is the worst kind of flummery. Someone from the 1930's would think I'm filthy rich because I can afford to buy bread at $3 a loaf. People in China may live well on $3000 a year because THEY'RE NOT BEING PAID IN DOLLARS. They're paid in their own currency, and clearly the equivalent $3K a year is not poverty.
Tossing numbers around with no context is the kind of thing liars and cheats do. It's hard to believe anyone would fall for such a transparent trick.
Excelsior wrote:
People in China may live well on $3000 a year because THEY'RE NOT BEING PAID IN DOLLARS. They're paid in their own currency, and clearly the equivalent $3K a year is not poverty.
Exactly! You can't compare $3,000 a year in America with 21,000 RMB a year in China. If you and your spouse both make that amount and live in a city other than one of the big three, you have a comfortable life -- your own house, a kid, big screen TV, good food, nice clothes, maybe a motorcycle. You are, by western definition, solidly middle class.
I am amused that Americans constantly trot out this nonsense about how "we may be suffering, but we're still better off than the Chinese". Generally speaking, that's just not true!
That kind of thinking, the idea that unions help no one, conveniently forgets what unions did for working class people.
Before unions employers had neither the will nor the incentive to offer many of the basic rights we take for granted today.
Think of the conditions of the sweat shops that mega corporations use to produce many of the goods found in US stores and you'll have some idea of how workers were treated before unions fought for those rights.
And if you think people weren't persecuted or didn't die for those rights, you'd be wrong. In many countries there were severe penalties for attempting to organize unions, up to and including execution.
Almost every benefit you enjoy in the workplace, from paid leave to safety regulations that save lives, have come about because unions brought us these rights.
The current middle class certainly wouldn't be owning homes or stock portfolios, certainly wouldn't have things like pensions and medical insurance, if it wasn't for unions.
No organization is perfect. Of course some unions have in the past been corrupt, both politically and financially. But the idea that we can now do away with them is intolerable. What do you think will happen to the working class of today without someone standing up for them? Union action provides us with the tools to stop rich and greedy CEOs from dictating what they will and will not do for the workforce that creates their wealth. Even those that don't belong to unions benefit from these tools, because they have and will lead to better conditions for all workers.
QFT. Well done.
The increasing poverty in America is a direct result of the banks, corporations, and Wall streets disconnection with the lives of working Americans. If you can't afford to buy a house, the banks and housing markets response is "It's not my fault, find a better paying job, or rent a appartment". If you can't afford to rent a appartment, the landlords response is "It's not my fault, find a better paying job". If your employer doesn't pay a living wage, their reponse is "It's not my fault, find a better paying job". Meanwhile Wall Street is encouraging businesses, and corporations to make their employees work harder for less pay, as they also encourage them to offshore jobs.
Americans through our hard work have earned, and need decent affordable healthcare, and housing. The banks, corporations, and Wall Street don't care. Not only that, they see the working poor, and middle class as a threat to their lifestyle of excess, and luxury. Affordable health care, housing, and a living wage shouldn't be a privilage in America, it should be a right for all Americans.
I wonder what this fascist asshole will have to say when the guillotine pullsnup in front of his house?
Like our politicians these people are so far out of touch living in their high society insulated bubble that they have no clue about the real world and the middle class let alone having one clue about those not able to obtain middle class status , nor do they give a damn about the middle and lower classes . Not one damn . The only virtue these people know is greed and to them greed is a virtue , worst of all they own our politicians and run our government . In regards to unions this dirt bag is a fountain of bullshit , unions do work for union members , with out a union you have no clout , no bargaining power and no protection and this is just what company owners and corporate CEOs and shareholders want .
Way to set a high bar, American workers live better than the Chinese.
American exceptionalism seems out the window on Fox, unless it gives us the right to bomb people.
You need the two cars because you don't live within walking, bike or public transit distance of where you work and shop. They're an additional ongoing expense you have to the payments on just to be able to live. You probably have zero--or negative--equity in the house, and are a couple of paychecks from getting thrown out of it. Your investment portfolio has probably fallen half or more in value over the past couple of years, so you can look forward to working into your seventies--especially since you'll still probably be making payments on your interest-only mortgage then. Everything you "own," in this so-called middle class lifestyle, can vanish with your job in an uncertain economy. You wake up with dread every day, anticipating another day of eating your boss's shit, but still thanking God you've got a job to eat shit at, and holding onto it like grim death and willingly eating any shit you have to to hold onto it--because none of that stuff's paid for, and it can all be taken away if you don't keep on your boss's good side.
If unemployment reaches Great Depression levels, all the former "owners" of those nice cars and homes will be mobbing Forbes' editorial offices with torches and pitchforks. And I hope Osanian's bleeding head winds up on a pike out front.
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