January 28, 2009 03:23 PM
The HOUSE passed the economic stimulus package 244-188
The HOUSE just passed the economic stimulus plan 244-188 as not one Republican voted for the bill. Wow, what a shock. Giving the Boehner's all that bipartisan love really served President Obama well.
The stimulus package passed by a vote of 244-188. Eleven Democrats voted against the measure, while no Republicans supported it. With unemployment at its highest level in a quarter-century, the banking industry wobbling despite the infusion of staggering sums of bailout money and states struggling with budget crises, Democrats said the legislation was desperately needed.
Stimulus.
Jobs.
Money.
Give me a break.
No, give the American People a break.
"Among the funding measures included in the proposal are $25 million for new ATV trails; $400 million for the National Endowment for the Arts; $400 million for global warming research; $335 million for the Centers for Disease Control to combat sexually-transmitted diseases; and $650 million coupons to subsidize TV viewers for digital television conversion."
So, where is this stimulus for job creation again? When will people wake up and see that Democrats and Republicans play to special interest and are wasting OUR tax dollars on foolishness.Read the bill in it's entirety so you can see the waste promoted by the Democrats.Thankfully, $200 million for new contraceptive service and $20 million to renovate the National Mall was axed. This is ludicrous people.This is not CHANGE, this is more of the same of people playing to special interest. Why can't you see that?
Here is another small detail, The Congressional Budget Office says borrowing $820 billion will cost $347 billion more in interest,which pushes the total cost of the stimulus package to more than $1 trillion.Borrowing money to get out of a situation NEVER works. I was against the first stimulus and I am against this one. Half of the first stimulus package went to all of these banks that won't even tell you what they did with it. What makes you think this will work? This will make our children and our children s children be more in debt than imaginable.
This is the beginning of the end of America.
Nice - $650 million for TV converter boxes stays in. $200 million for birth-control gets cancelled. Very nice. What we really need in this economy is for people who can't afford TV converter boxes to keep breeding. Hopefully they will be so preoccupied with America's Next Top Model that they will stop having sex.
Screw `em. This was predictable. Now it's time to isolate and marginalize the Hoover--uh I mean Rush Lim...---uh I mean Republican Party.
In the end he got what he wanted and he appears like the bigger person. All this constant griping about attempting to proceed in a bipartisan fashion is annoying. It does no harm, so why not let him try. You sound like the Republicans who are constantly claiming "negotiations make us look weak." Well, not if you still get what you want in the end.
I don't care who Obama talks to. But I will care if the ideas of the Always Wrong Party end up in his bills.
"It does no harm, so why not let him try". Compromising to the right by throwing women under the bus does a lot of harm. Just because the men folk can't eat it or f*#* it does not mean it's not real. If we are going to have an economic stimulus package that is as broad as this one it needs to deal with the reality that low-income and newly unemployed people are going to keep having sex and unwanted pregnancy can push many struggling people into serious poverty. I challenge any man out there who does not recognize this to stop having sex until the economy is fully recovered - That's going to take years boys.
"Obstructionism is the new responsibility"
If the last two years were any indication of how they act in opposition, this is just business as usual.
Wow, I can't believe NONE of them supported it. Oh wait, yes I can.
....Oh well.
wow........No surprise there. they got their bank/financial institution bailouts(tarp) now when it comes to helping tax payers the crying/whining starts. same old deal with the "fiscally responsible" party griping instead of getting something done.
They better hope he fails now! If Obama pulls off saving the economy, it'll be a long time til the repubs have a majority in congress or a pres in the WH.
If Obama pulls off saving the economy, the repugs will just claim that he spent to much doing it, gave away too much money, etc. and their plan would've done the same thing for a lot less.
Don't forget the playbook!
So, Obama really invited those turdbuckets over for happy hour so he could secretly piss in their drinks.
Absolutely amazing. Obama has made all the right moves from his perspective in that, the people are sick and tired of petty partisanship. All the polls show this. So, Obama puts on a show of being a consensus builder, and his popularity will go up as a result of it. Meanwhile, in the face of opinion polls that show public disgust over petty partisanship, the Republicans go and take their marching orders straight from Rush Limbaugh and his base, and adopt a scorched earth policy.
They're taking a big chance. If the economy recovers, Obama can forever say all these jerks voted against the stimulus package. So...much like Limbaugh, they've painted themselves into the corner of HOPING the stimulus package, the economy, and the COUNTRY FAIL.
these turds are doing and he's gone. the people are tiring of the bullshit contentious-for-no-reason repugs. 2010 will devastate them in the Senate as well. Obama has his own microphone called the WWWeb. The fascist megaphone that is the MSM is sealing their own fates as well.
Some stuff you can't make up!
for linking you to a picture of an elephant's ass. I think they all had the sh!t scared out of them by the Phil Gingrey affair, and don't want to suffer the same fate. They couldn't be seen to be Obama appeasers, and risk offending their new Grand Wizard.
but I spell ass with a (D)
Some stuff you can't make up!
Is Obama doing this to show the ReThug for what they really are?
I'm hoping so.
The message for all the moderate, common sense voters in the United States is going to be "if you want consensus builders, vote Democrat. If you want stupborn children who only listen to other people who think the same way they do, vote Republican."
yup........the (R) say one thing do another. obama is trying and he's showing the public that. big gamble for the (R). they're not interested in bipartisianship(sp).
nine days ago. look at the shitstorm he created by trying to fix things. If anyone remembers his campaign, first the opposition ridiculed Obama, then they tried to smear him, then they tried to smear those around him and all the while people were asking, "Is THAT all you have?"
I going to give Obama more time. By the summer, he'll be steamrolling them.
Some stuff you can't make up!
Actually, Obama is the first politician I've ever seen in my life that I wouldn't dream about second guessing.
and what were their reasons?
I hope the Senate does better. Can Lieberman be counted on? Reid? Nelson(D-Neb)?
Some stuff you can't make up!
...generally speaking: HELL NO they cant be counted on!
and harry is on trial as well. nancy better get with those dems. there are at least 4 blue-dog dems. nancy needs to whip their asses.
Some stuff you can't make up!
So did they actually drop the family planning.
I don't see it as a loss. Sure, it looks like capitulation, but as far as stimulus goes, it was a throwaway.
Some stuff you can't make up!
it was put in the stimulus bill JUST to give the RNC something to bark at, appease their base when it gets taken out. Unfortunately since not a single one of them ended up voting for it, its hard to see how that strategy is working out.
That's what I was thinking too.
As Obama said: You can't get the job done listening to Limpballs
Some stuff you can't make up!
Hard to imagine after the whupping in '06 and '08, some moderate repubs facing tough reelection in '10 din't vote for it.
Thats what you call party control!
Something Nancy and Harry know nothing about.
We need to win more seats in the House of Representatives. We need more patriotic and public servants in the positions of power. Enough with the corporate owned lackeys and neo-cons.
We need to start planning for 2010 and lining up good candidates with good campaigns and good organization.
Peace.
So much for happy hour. I think all the outreach and compromise by President Obama (how much do I LOVE writing that?) was a brilliant move. It was all over the news, he was shown over and over talking about moving beyond party, doing what's best for the people. And the R's kicked him in the teeth - who is going to look better here? Even tho the MSM will probably resist telling the truth, it's obvious to the people just like it was in the election.
The Republican party mascot should be the mastodon, not the elephant.
More like the dodo bird ... we can only hope they become extinct as well.
I wish they would let us know which Dems voted against the package.
And Powkat, I love writing President Barack Obama too :-)
NOBODY 2012
Agreed. Obama has them coming and going. I love it.
... introduced by Democrats should have a cover sheet in bold large font that simply says
WE WON
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
That deserves a high five
NOBODY 2012
the repug leadership has been screaming about anything Democratic for years. why should they stop now? What bothers me most is that few if any Democrats ever get a chance to answer these charges. The media keeps putting the mikes in front of the people who got us into this mess.
Over at CaffertyFile
Some stuff you can't make up!
Just want to know who to add to my s#*t list.
dems there called dixiecrats. the run in a strong dem area and a repug can not get elected so they run as dems. the thing I can't get is are the dems in these places can't see this. where is the DNC.
of the dour cabbage patch people
http://www.236.com/images/photo2/3843/origina...
{ Deleted, Blogwhoring. SiteMonitor} does not represent "change". It will not stimulate the economy to any appreciable degree and will further act to increase inflationary pressures. Why do I bother telling you all this? Because I am old enough not to have to worry anymore about my retirement, my health care, or the enormous debt you guys are going to have to deal with as are your children and their children.
But hey! Don't get me wrong. I will be glad use the government services you guys have so generously agree to hock your future for.
I, too, am surprised no Republican was willing to put their names to this government theft of your future. Maybe there is hope for the Republican Party yet.
ex animo
davidfarrar
but dont link to some right winger site as proof
"It will not stimulate the economy to any appreciable degree and will further act to increase inflationary pressures. "
What's the basis for your assertion? Or are you just throwing out an opinion?
And, in fact, your mentioning inflation betrays you as a right-wing idealogue, since only conservative idealogues have been indoctrinated with the belief that inflation is the end of the world. And usually only Peter Schiff-style, Austrian School economists believe that hyper-inflation MUST ALWAYS follow equity market crashes. In reality, however, there are much worse things than inflation, and a pinch of inflation wouldn't be the end of the world right now, if it were a choice between single-digit inflation and double-digit unemployment.
But let's be clear: Inflation is a tax, a regressive tax that the people never voted to impose upon themselves. When you have to pay a tax you have not agreed upon, are you really free?
As for my proof: { Deleted, Blogwhoring. SiteMonitor}
I do apologize for not having this hyperlink open with a new window, but this site doesn't have that degree of sophistication or I have missed the link.
ex animo
davidfarrar
So our economic crisis is the result of inflation, and not a severe restriction of the money supply? Is there any economist anywhere that supports this notion?
Also, if inflation is a devaluing of money, which, by definition, favors debtors over creditors, how is this "regressive"?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I didn't say our present economic recession was caused by inflation, I said Obama's stimulus plan, by pumping billions of dollars into the system, will tend to devalue the dollar and inflate prices, pure and simple. When prices rise, as they already are in the food industry, because of inflation, that is a regressive tax on the poor.
ex animo
davidfarrar
... was .09%. Yet inflation should still be our biggest worry? Sounds like a banker.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
this all started down the shit hole when the shitbags repugs voted in the federal reserve bank act, this gave the control of making and controling that the US Goverment had over to 12 private banks. this was the biggest fucktard bill ever. Let me see, I want to give up my control to make money and control it to 12 banks so they can lent the US Gov money at intrest. any body out there see this as fucked as I do.
Once Obama allows our banking system to be nationalized, the question then becomes:"Who will regulate the regulators?"
ex animo
davidfarrar
you all know that reid has no balls
... are apparently 10 Blue Dogs plus Paul Kanjorski (D-Pa.).
Corruption favors the wealthy.
WASHINGTON — Bucking the Obama administration, House Republicans on Wednesday defeated a bill to delay the upcoming transition from analog to digital television broadcasting to June 12 _ leaving an estimated 6.5 million U.S. households unprepared for the switchover.
The 258-168 vote failed to clear the two-thirds threshold needed for passage in a victory for GOP members, who warn that postponing the transition from the current Feb. 17 deadline would confuse consumers.
Some stuff you can't make up!
Confuse customers?
That's not the reason they blocked the bill. They blocked it because their new Presidential candidate Joe the f-ing plumber has invested a fortune in selling digital converter boxes, and it's all on leveraged money set to be called in on Feb. 20th!
it never NOT about the money with them.
Some stuff you can't make up!
Um, people have had a few years to get ready for the switch. If they have not done it by now, it just means they were to lazy to do it and want someone to do it for them.
Ah I hate to inform but 99.999 of people had no idea about the transition. Numerous studies show most people had no idea that if they had cable or satelitie tv service or a new tv made in the last five years they wouldn't need a digital tv converter box.
A lot of people are buying the boxes when they don't need to and a lot of stores were also hawking new tvs to people who didn't them since they had cable or satelite.
Could you tell me why the ads for the switch are only a few months old and it was never a major news issue till recently when the funds for rebates dried out very quickly with a huge waiting list?
Sorry but tv manufactorers, the fcc and other news agencies dropped the ball.
Eat Cake
this may soften the landing - we're still heading downward quite rapidly. Recovery? How does 2014 sound?
Replace the Reaganistic tax cuts with more infrastructure and green-job funding. It's time to push the obstructionists aside. They already tried to lead and failed miserably so it's time to follow or get out of the way.
LimpBalls
...isn't the issue here. It's using borrowed money to pay for these programs that is the problem. It is the same old, same old. You can't put money into the economy on the one hand and take it out with the other. It a zero-sum gain, which will stimulate nothing. Obama knows the economy isn't going to be stimulated by his plan, that's why he wanted some Republicans to sign on to it. When it fails, as it will, he can say, "Look, even the Republicans believed my stimulus plan was going to work. Who knew?"
Now if you really want a change, let's pay for Obama's plan with reduced government spending. Curtail government spending by $826 billion and you can have all the infrastructure and green-jobs you want. Since we aren't spending money we don't have, it will be a sum gain for the economy.
ex animo
davidfarrar
... on infrastructure and green jobs we can have all the infrastructure and green jobs we want? Sounds like a fiscal conservative alright.
Why is deficit spending only a problem when the money doesn't go to the very wealthy?
Also, if your only problem is that the spending is in the red, why not make up the difference with a wealth tax? How about 150% on everything over 20 million?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
...STIMULATE THE ECONOMY...
And yes, yes, it is a problem when deficit spending goes to the wealthy. However, and I do truly loath to say this, Two wrongs don't make a right.
Lastly, as much as we all hate those big, bad ugly wealthy people, they are, in fact, still consumers. You don't stimulate the economy by taking money out of the pockets of the consumers. You stimulate the economy by allowing more money to remain in the pockets of the consumers.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Does that qualify as double wingnut?
The goal is to stimulate the economy. Which is exactly what increased fiscal spending has historically done.
I was specifically addressing your whine about deficit spending, which you strangely maintain is the cause of the current economic collapse. Any authority for that? Or is that right up there with your "chicken little" fear of inflation, currently well below 1%?
I do agree that placing money in the hands of consumers is stimulating to the economy, but I hardly consider any member of the Top 1% of wealth holders to be "consumers." Especially since their hoarding of unearned wealth is the major cause of this economic collapse.
Go figure, but I think the bottom 99% are far more likely to actually spend money than those whose financial interests are actually benefited by the destruction of the economy.
In any case, the spending is what's needed; but some robber baron restitution would still be nice.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
...does not stimulate the economy due to the fact that Keynesian economic theory does not account for the origination of the deficit funds from which the government "injects" into the economy in the first place. In classic Keynesian economic theory, it's just there. But, in fact, unless the government actually prints the money, it has to get it from somewhere within the economic system. The net result is actually a zero sum gain for the economy, and therefore, doesn't actually stimulate anything. In deed, because the economy is much better at deciding where such stimuli is needed and can be efficiently utilized than any government bureaucrat can ever be, having the government inject funds into the economy, while it may help a relatively few get jobs while the money lasts, overall, it simply acts as an impediment to a quick economic recovery.
In short, increased deficit spending does not stimulate the economy. It is a myth.
ex animo
davidfarrar
... for this nonsense? Perhaps you could provide a link which actually works. Or some authority besides a link to yourself.
Actually, never mind. Have a nice night.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Click here.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Why a youtube link instead of say an economic report or news article?
...I believe the YouTube presentation did present its source at the very beginning of the tape.
If you would like its written version, I am sure if you write to them, they will send you a copy.
ex animo
davidfarrar
of one of the tax cuts what he will do with the increase in 'keeping money in my own pocket'.
Then ask the same question of the average worker what he will do with his miserly tax cut, and then ask one of the 2 million who have no more job.
The answer will be that the rich guy invests his cut and become even richer, because they don't want to tax capital gains as if it were not considered income
Sure, it will add $1T to the national debt, just as Reagan and Bush added about $6T - and what moron would not put out the fire in his house because it would add to his water bill?
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
...to stimulate the economy than by allowing the consumers to keep more of their hard earned money in their own pockets, please enlighten me?
Just for the record: When you say the rich guy will "invest"... you mean, he will buy some stock, from which a company will grow and seek new hires; you are correct
ex animo
davidfarrar
We cut taxes on the rich (sorry, the "consumers"), BIG time. Twice. A few years ago. Were you there?
Any chance of you taking a look at the results of those tax cuts? Maybe you'd like to see if your economic ideas are right or wrong.
I have an idea. Check out Bush's job numbers vs Clinton's.
1. I am here talking about Bush's tax cuts that repugnicans want made permanent The multi millionaires.
2. Would it not be stupid for companies to expand and hire if no one can afford their products or services? Companies are shutting down or off for lack of income.
3. Trickle up works better than trickle down, where the trickle stopped with the executives: Ref "A generation ago, top CEOs made 30 to 40 times the pay of average workers. Last year, CEO pay outpaced average worker pay by 344 times".
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
A whole lot of money was taken from "consumers" in the 50s when taxes were 90%. A whole lot of money was taken from "consumers" in the 90s when Clinton raised taxes against the howls of people like you who said it would kill jobs. The economy had no problem with it. The economy loves it when you tax the rich.
If you want to balance the budget, tax the rich. If it's still not balanced, tax the rich again. If you don't like it, tell me why the 50s and the 90s disagree with you.
When you say tax the rich, are you talking about taxing consumers or taxing producers, corporations?
ex animo
davidfarrar
I might be interested in how you think the distinction's important, but only if you demonstrate that you've observed the world recently.
And if the budget is not balanced after you have "taxed the rich again," hell, let's just take the buggers out behind the wall and shoot them and then take their money.
The 50s and the 90s disagree with me, because they both lead to economic recessions.
ex animo
davidfarrar
We'll do it Bush's way, then, just to make sure one doesn't sneak up on us. (Some people are saying we're in a recession right now!)
But with the passage of Pres. Obama's stimulus package, plus another trillion to the banking industry, we will indeed be headed for another "Great" Depression.
ex animo
davidfarrar
hehehehe!
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
'AMERICAN GREED' started 20 minutes ago. Turn it on and learn about the corrupt bastards
If you need funds to pay for essentials, you have a revenue problem
If you need funds to pay for frivolity, you have a spending problem
Child minor recessions happen all the time. It's a side effect of a capitilist economy.
Recessions are not caused by a "capitalist" economy- and we don't even have a capitalist economy. We have a central bank that manipulates interest rates- millions of departments that require different rules and regulations to start nearly any occupation or business- income taxes, sales taxes, and all other kinds of taxes. In what way is this a capitalist free-market? People who continue to blame this on the free-market are completely blind- our government has grown in size over the decades- not shrunk.
Recessions and the boom/bust cycle are caused by CENTRAL ECONOMIC PLANNING- especially the control over the money supply. Look at monetary policy please.
Predictable that they would do this. *sigh*
And to those who said that the family planning provisions were expendable, I certainly didn't think so...
I've never seen change without a fire
it better be there.
Some stuff you can't make up!
I hope so. It needs to be somewhere!
I've never seen change without a fire
I called my congressman's office just prior to the vote. (Republican and all around sleazebag Ken Calvert, who has the distinction of being one of the 20 most corrupt members of congress for the 3rd year running.) Basically, I told the phone answering automaton person that the congressman should act like a grownup (for once in his life) instead of following lockstep with the rest of his party. He didn't, of course.
My point? I'm one of those people who actually does write to congress, but (more than ever before) I really feel like it has zero effect. Ken Calvert continues to act as stupidly and as arrogantly as he always has. Just another member of the Republican cesspool. So why does he keep getting reelected? Shit...
For the same reason most of the them do...name recognition. He has an added advantage. He's named after a popular brand of whiskey.
Vote with yer throat
From the police report of one of Calvert's escapades:
"I noticed that the male subject was placing his penis into his unzipped dress slacks, and was trying to hide it with his untucked dress shirt....The male subject started his vehicle and placed it into drive and proceeded to leave. I ordered him three times to turn off the vehicle, and he finally stopped and complied....The male identified himself as Kenneth Stanton Calvert...and stated 'We're just talking that's all, nothing else.'...I spoke with [Calvert's female companion, Lore Lorena] Linberg separately. I asked her if she had ever been arrested for anything, and she said, 'Yes, for prostitution and under the influence of heroin.' Linberg said she had last 'shot up' approximately one week prior and is currently on methadone."
According to the Corona PD police report, on November 27, 1993 Congressman Ken Calvert was observed sitting in his car after midnight with a prostitute's head in his lap.
In 2007, as ranking member of the House Subcommittee on Space & Aeronautics, Committee on Science & Technology, Rep Calvert proposed a bill that he promised would "stimulate creative space advertising concepts".
I just had to google the guy to see what he looked like. Now a very bad mental image is stuck in my head. Saddleback God was that stupid!
That distended piece of rectum is my rep too and it's a total waste of time to try to get him to do anything that isn't in lockstep with the GOP. I've emailed and called upon numerous occasions and always get the same canned Republican Party drivel as a response. I worked on the Hedrick campaign to oust Calvert and was an observer during the recount. Bill came so close and would have won if it wasn't for the GOPers in the Orange County section of our district. We must start working now to get rid of this embarrassment of a Representative in the 2010 election.
Let's see how far to the right they go before they fall off of the edge of this flat world.
Big surprise.
They'll get a chance to erase the memory of being linked with opposition to the new new deal when the compromise bill comes back after the Senate works it over.
let's hope that the senate democrats have enough
pull and a few republicans help to pass this.
if the repubs vote no as a group again, then
i say, FUCK THE REPIGS AND IGNORE THEM FROM NOW ON.
If only it were that easy.
Obama reached out, and the GOP gave the finger. So the new President went ahead and got it passed anyway without them.
It's not surprising that no Repub voted for this.
It passed by a very healthy margin. Clinton's 1993 plan barely made it out of the House by two votes.
For keeping her backbone through this bill...lets pray Reid can do the same.
The 11 Demorats need to be voted out of office.
So you think the blue dogs were wrong. If you read the legislation. The democratic congress just sold us down the road. If you don't read it you will understand as your neighbors and friends lose their jobs, their homes
and no new jobs are created. Read it before you speak.
Since you seem to be so familiar with the legislation details, why don't you enlighten me, bobhenry, as to how the "democratic congress just sold us down the road."
Don't try to sell your opinion as fact with nothing to back it up. Nothing cited, no evidence. Just one stupid opinion. Typical Republican M.O.
Pelosi and Reid have a backbone? Wow, loosening restrictions on stem cell research has worked wonders.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Always helps in these situations.
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
How will spending $87billion on medicaid, $142billion on education, $300million on sexually transmitted diseases, $50million on the national endowments for the arts...and on and on...HOW DOES this save our jobs,
our homes, create jobs and get us on our way to energy independence. This stimulus bill is the biggest pork barrel legislation ever and we the American people lose. Pelosi and her bunch on capitol hill have just
done what the republicans before them have done...sold us down the road and our children down the road with us. If the American people don't get up in arms over
this then the American people don't deserve to be citizens of a free country. Buy from Walmart you help china. Buy a Car you help Japan, buy a computer you help india and on and on. The only business left in our country is booze or gambling. They will move overseas to.
How does spending money on education not save our jobs? How does spending money on infrastructure not save our jobs? How does spending money on Government programs for those who need it not save our jobs?
Education spending gives teachers, and even broader schools and colleges, the tools they need to teach their many students. Because you don't know, I go to a SUNY school, and our funding got cut by Patterson. So if you don't like me getting an education so I can get a job when I graduate in May, take a hike and get out of my country.
Do people seriously think before putting up a damn argument anymore?
Hey level headed...all of those things are important
...but this bill wass supposed to save our jobs and businesses and homes. Congress didn't spend the money on that. They should have passed separate bills for education for medicaid and stuff like that.
But what happens if they take away all of those billions for jobs and building energy independence,
then the people who get educated won't have jobs when they get out of school. that's why I am upset. I
bet even President Obama gets upset over it too.
He's a troll.
"$87billion on medicaid, $142billion on education, $300million on sexually transmitted diseases, $50million on the national endowments for the arts...and on and on"
PEOPLE work for Medicaid, schools, clinics and the arts organizations. These are jobs.
I would rather have bridges, schools, roads and highways, and yes, even the grass on the mall, but a job is a job. All jobs matter. All these workers still have to spend money to live, so more money to them is more money to everyone in the long run.
Hey level headed...all of those things are important
...but this bill wass supposed to save our jobs and businesses and homes. Congress didn't spend the money on that. They should have passed separate bills for education for medicaid and stuff like that.
But what happens if they take away all of those billions for jobs and building energy independence,
then the people who get educated won't have jobs when they get out of school. that's why I am upset. I
bet even President Obama gets upset over it too.
These aren't real, paying jobs. They are simply make-work Potemkin jobs. They are funded by borrowing against your future. In fact, they will act to deaden the economic recovery and lengthen the time it will take to achieve true econonic recovery. This is true because the money used to fund these jobs will not be availible to the private sector companies who will need these funds to support real economic growth.
ex animo
davidfarrar
THE MEDICAID MONEY WAS ALREADY SPENT BY THE STATES,
THE GOVERNMENT IS GIVING THEM MONEY TO PAY BILLS...NO JOBS THERE. EDUCATION FOR PROGRAMS THE GOVERNMENT ALREADY OWED THE STATES MONEY FOR...NO JOBS THERE. My point is that what Congress passed
little to do with saving our economy. $275billion
for tax breaks for businesses. How is that going to help businesses who can't sell their products. They go under...more jobs lost. Read the bill and then come back and jump on me it's called HR-1. I don't think you'll have much to say after you read it.
Same o, same o, nothing ever changes in Washinton.
Now, as I have proposed elsewhere, we need to stop taxing individual labor as profit. Individual labor is a simple conversion of capital, where no profit results. You work an hour for so much. Where is the profit in that? Now that would be a real change. Of course the taxing oligarchy, who controls this country, would be up in arms, but it would generate $1.1 trillion, enough to pay for Obama's stimulus plan without borrowing a dime from your future.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Now why don't you offer some insight into what you think should be done......I for one am critical of the Bill because I don't think it's big enough. And the banks aren't doing much to help either. As for ranting about "taxing individual income", that contributes nothing to the reality of the situation.
What should be done is.
The infrastructure projects Obama talked about should get underway.
There should be a major program for energy independence. * a new electrical grid
* new high speed rail projects
* build wind farms
* solar electric projects
* desalination plants
* tertiary treatment plants
* new us made hybrid
and electric autos
Small business incubators to start new industries in solar, wind, water treatment, and new technologies
Education for a new generation of engineers and scientists, money for research and development.
Rebuild old industries reopen paper mills, rebuild steel mills, shipbuilding firms, foundries, machine shops. All of the industries that give this country the ability to be independent.
Provide money for farms to protect our food supply for future generations.
Those are some of the things I would do...what are your ideas.
...you can't stop a recession by doing more of what caused the recession in the first place, i.e., by spending more money which you ain't got.
The reality is, not only does this economy have to bounce back quickly, it has to bounce back big time, at least by 5% to 6% increase in GDP per year to pay for the coming Social Security deficit spending years starting in 2017.
And while it is true, prohibiting the taxation of individual labor (a pet peeve of mine) my not be in the cards at present, it was meant to give the reader some sort of context of just how much government spending will be necessary to pay for Obama's insane porkus maximus proposal.
The reality is, if we cut all of the pork out of Obama's stimulus bill and just keep in the "economic stimuli", we could perhaps pay for most of it through reduced government spending alone. Moreover, when the economy does quickly recover, as I am sure it will, and a good, healthy surplus is accumulated, by all means spend that surplus in any way your hearts desire. That is the real way to build a good, strong economic future for this country. It is, in fact, the only responsible way.
ex animo
davidfarrar
... that caused our economic collapse? Once again, is there any economist, anywhere, at any time, on any planet, that has endorsed this position?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
His name was Henry Morganthau, Treasury Secretary to FDR.
ex animo
davidfarrar
... but I highly doubt Sec. Morganthau claimed deficit spending caused the Great Depression (or any depression, recession, or panic) let alone our current mess.
But I suppose it is good to know that that the mortgage crisis and credit crunch had nothing to do with it.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Deleted, Blogwhoring. Last warning. SiteMonitor}
But I am not sure how we got to the point where deficits caused the Great Depression. Deficits caused the "Great" in the Great Depression, but it did not cause the Great Depression. In the same way, Obama's deficit spending is going to turn this deep recession into another Great Depression.
You know, Pres. Obama still wants to give the banking industry another trillion or so on top of the $750 billion.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Medi-caid saves jobs by helping working stiffs be healthy enough to work in the first place, not to mention opens up or preserves jobs in the health care sector. Money for education keeps young people in school, and opens up jobs for more teachers and others who work at educational institutions, etc. Investing in infrastructure provides work opportunities for people who can do or learn to do the work we need done to our infrastructure before we have another Katrina or a severe bridge collapse like Minnesota.
How does throwing billions of dollars at people who get paid too much money to simply push money around all day help the rest of us? At least these stimulus provisions can provide tangible benefits for those who actually need them.
I've never seen change without a fire
The problem I see hear (and in the Bill) is that it tries to reach several goals. Creating jobs is just one of them. Trying to address the plight of States and especially people who are suffering now is another. And then there's the potpourri of alternative energy items. This is not an easy Bill to understand, nor to necessarily defend because of this multi-prong aspect.
Hmm, maybe they needed to break the bill up into smaller bills that are clearer about relieving different aspects of this crisis? I can understand Bobhenry's frustration that aspects of the forclosure crisis aren't covered by this package. I am definitely frustrated that the Dems caved on the family planning provision. It's very important, and I hope they include it in a future health care bill, and quickly...
I guess we are in such a huge mess right now that it's impossible to have all of us feeling like something is being done to address aspects that we may now better than others to be a problem...
I've never seen change without a fire
"Medi-caid saves jobs by helping working stiffs be healthy enough to work in the first place". As long as they don't get pregnant. No one employes pregnant women and they often find themselves the first to go if they wind up that way. But during hard economic times the working stiffs, especially bankers, should be man enough to abstain from sex in the first place.
You forgot the arms manufacturing industry. Oh wait those products go to insuring that Iraqis stays enslaved to Americas corrupted government and Afghanistan more subjugation by the bush doctrine of stealing another country sovereignty. Or the lets send more white prosperous and cluster bombs to Israel to further Israels aggression against the Palestinian civilians . How much moneys wasted by our government in its power grab by the bush Cheney gang and supported by Obama , billions and billions . If the corporations can still outsource jobs and be paid to do it as is the case right now then there will be no recovery even if this jobs wpa program starts up, the truth is there's little that America produces for us to buy, China, India, Mexico makes everything we use on a daily basis! and as far as green jobs go there's very little Americans can produce without using mostly made in China or other country's components , micro chips. We don't make them here anymore , most likely China has been sold all the rights to produce these vital parts and we will have to buy them from china ect, and even if we do get anything that is green related who's going to buy it? The average persons wages wont be enough to even live on let alone buy expensive appliances run on green power.Having lost my electric power since yesterday morning due to freezing rain and snow I can see the advantage of having a home that's free from using power lines , we are held hostage by the power company's and the weather, but the truth is it will be years before the dream of a home free of these types of power outages and the power company's will certainly not allow the American people to be able to get rid of their services, as long as the corporations control our lives thru these corrupt governments they own we're screwed !
have their heads up their asses:
MINNICK - ID
PETERSON - MN
ELLSWORTH - IN
TAYLOR - MS
BRIGHT - AL
BOYD - FL
KRATOVIL - MD
SHULER - NC
GRIFFITH - AL
KANJORSKI - NY
COOPER - TN
Ugh, we need the proverbial heads of these Representatives' jobs on a proverbial platter.
I am relieved and happy though, that Jim Costa was not among the clueless. But then, he's good like that. :)
I've never seen change without a fire
that's where I'd have my head too if I had to vote for that peice of crap pork legislation.
Can you give pertinent examples?
memory loss. Don't you know anything? One man's pork is another man's infrastucture? It's just about the only way some things get done in this wealthy, yet, deliberately impoverished country.
There are more elections next year.
to watch every last Republican vote against a bill as it sails by unimpeded. :)
"Giving the Boehner's all that bipartisan love really served President Obama well."
John and all, it really did serve him well. Why? Because he tried hard! He tried hard to cooperate, he tried to work with people with different opinions, he showed flexibility and resolve, he did what he promised he would do and what he campaigned on. The Republicans were given access to the president and the process. President Obama compromised and even changed the legislation to satisfy its critics. He gave them an historic opportunity to be a part of the solution and to put America first and the GOP turned their back on him and the American people.
The GOP can try and spin this anyway they want, but the American people are not stupid. They can see what happened and they can draw their own conclusions. President Obama delivered on everything he said he would and went the extra mile to be inclusive and transperant. The GOP have no plan, no leadership, no desire to cooperate and no backbone.
If President Obama ignores the GOP, he will deprive us all the experience of watching the GOP fail to live up to the American people's minimum expectations.
...and real jobs are not forthcoming within the next six months, the GOP will be the least of Obama's worries.
ex animo
davidfarrar
governmentissue says "John and all, it really did serve him well. Why? Because he tried hard! He tried hard to cooperate, he tried to work with people with different opinions, he showed flexibility and resolve, he did what he promised he would do and what he campaigned on".
Dude, this is so true. His compromises were so reasonable. It involved just lady part stuff, which is not that important anyway. Now even though the chicks voted for the guy in much larger numbers than we did we still need to let them know, loud and clear, "Keep your lady parts to yourself, there's a recession goin on out there!"
Why would they vote for it? It's a horseshit bill (much of the reason being what was added to appease to them) and when it fails they needn't take any blame. Obama and the Dems are incredibly stupid to put forth the bill as it is.
Use Obama's Wanton Need for Biparstinship against the democrats. They made sure the Bill would not do what it needs to do, and as soon as it fails the GOP will jump.
Obama is a fool to fall for this; the Public was screaming at him Not to play this game, and unless he wants to fail he better grow a real backbone and soon.
He gave the GOP half a dozen or so "bones" as my fellow Liberals have been calling them. He begged, he Sang "kum ba yah my lord" with them And what did he get.
They voted lock and step aginest the bill.
Are We going to put the GOP in there place now or are we going to keep Pandering to them till our country collapses?
it just doesn't matter
if the repubs don't reciprocate, president obama should continue bipartisan talks because it is what a leader does, lead by example, showing how mature people talk about issues. no name calling, no blaming, no screaming, no slogans, etc
the more president obama consistently presents this type of leadership, the deeper the message will sink in and take root, we are not going to act like rove, the hammer, cheney, or bush.
the democrats will have is the high road, the country will be farther down the drain because of GOP policies. The People Will not give a damn about the high road; all they will care about is that they are struggling even more, and Obama and the democrats didn't do what they said they would. Low and behold the GOP will be voted back in, Just like they planned!!!
Stimulus bill moves us closer to nationalized health care and rationing
The House of Representatives approved an $819 billion economic stimulus package Wednesday. The party line vote was a blow to Barack Obama's alleged desire for bipartisanship. All the Republicans and 11 democrats voted against the bill. One thing in the bill that went mostly unnoticed was a new bureaucracy called the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research.
Nothing wrong with nationalized healthcare. It works in just about every other country on the planet. Countries like the U.K., France and Germany have far better healthcare systems than we have in the U.S. and it also cost them far less. There is absolutely no benefit to the current U.S. system. It is an expensive scam. Too many profits in the system for something that should be considered a basic requirement for a rich country like the U.S. HMOs just rip-off the American public for crappy and expensive service.
John,
I totally agree. I emailed all my reps. but that
is a joke too. It's time to figure a way out to
circulate a petition.
Bobhenry
The Republicans voted against the stimulus for one reason. If the stimulus fails to get the economy going then they can then blame the Democrats. They did not want to take any ownership of the recovery plan, even though many of their districts will surely substantially benefit. It is a dangereous game however, as if the economy turns around in the next year or two they can also not claim any victory. The Dems will say we got the job done, despite both the Republicans causing the economic problems in the first place and without their help.
they will do any thing and every thing they can to make Pres Obamas plan fail.
The Republicans know the Democrats have the power to get Obama's porkus maximus stimulus plan passed through both houses, so the states were going to get their payoffs. So the Republicans were free to rack up some political capital when the economy fails to improves within the next six months, and, in fact, even deepens.
As you say, on the slight chance the economy does significantly improves within the next six months, the Dems can cash in. All in all, it was a pretty good bet by the Reps.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Keep in mind he voted NO for the [Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Econom...
Though this capital infusion YES [economic stimulus package 244-188] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCQlvnlWMCM
The reason I smiled was, I believe I know what he is talking about in the following statement on the floor, in support of the current stimulus. At about the 50:45min mark, he makes an interesting remark with regard to "Jumper Cables" :-) See CSPAN > House Floor Debate on GOP Substitute Economic Stimulus Bill Passes > At aprox. 50:45 http://www.c-span.org/Watch/watch.aspx?MediaI...
Study the symptoms not the virus...
...about Obama's Porkus Maximus Stimulus Plan (OPMSP), it's this all-fire need to rush through what has got to be without a doubt the largest, single piece of legislation most of us have ever seen in our lifetime. That doesn't sound like a change to me. It sounds suspiciously like business as usual to me.
When we look back at how the bailout of Wall Street was rushed through, it kind of makes you wonder if Obama, himself, is so certain his OPMSP is the right thing to do. It's as if, if he doesn't rush it through, people will have a chance to see his proposal's flaws and real costs. It would seem like, if Obama has a good proposal in hand, the best thing to do is to slow things down a bit. Talk things over. It is not as if he will lose legislative support from his own party -- or will it? What's the rush?
Sure, there is the depression and all, but only a small percentage of the overall OPMSP is directly dedicated to actually stimulating the economy, so why the rush? (No pun intended)
ex animo
davidfarrar
Sorry to say but this " stimulus " package is not going to work , it's a joke , it isn't going to " stimulate " a damned thing . And the pork ... the Dems cannot say the Repugs are wrong on that point . This is no time for Obama to be worrying about his campaign promises and his agenda , we are in deep shit and 100 % of this money should go directly to actual stimulation of the economy , to the working class and to bad mortgages for instance , it's the working class who will spend , pay their bills which will benefit the banks etc . and will create jobs as well slow the loss of jobs but instead it's the same BS again and we will be left with an unimaginable amount of debt and still be in the same boat just like phase one which was just a no strings attatched gift from Bush and the Repugs with the blessing of the Dems to Wall Street , the investor class , shareholders and the Banks . The Dems may be less corrupt but they are just as inept as the Repugs , sheesh , the way it's looking maybe more so ! I sure hope Obama doesn't end up being Obummer but this isn't looking good at all .
How is it that the Republicans passed the first stimulus package that had so many loop holes in it ..it looked like swiss cheese. Now they oppose a stimulus package that in comparison to the first one, is much better. I want to see the suggestions that the Repubs have. Oh, wait..all I hear is less taxes for the corporations and small business man, and deregulation? Do we have any corporations left here in America? The small business man depends on the little guy but if the little guy is laid off from his job along with 5 million others and there are no jobs to obtain because they were all sent over-seas, how are less taxes going to help, when very few people are working. Oh, yeah..good ole deregulation. We saw what that did to the banking systems. Free for all.
I really don't think this stimulus package will work either because it was made up by the crooked and inept politicians that got us here to begin with.
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