How does the House feel after being rendered useless in 'Health Care Reform' by the Senate?
After many months of negotiations, fights, protests, egos and outright suffering, the Senate may have a health-care bill that passes. Liberal activists are divided on their support. Howard Dean wants the Senate bill killed, but Paul Krugman wants it passed.
Both are real liberal heroes. Paul Krugman was as honest as anyone during the democratic primary between Hillary and Obama and he received a lot of pressure to tone it down so I will never dismiss anything he has to say. That being said, I don't buy the Iraq war analogy either. I did become a blogger in 2004 because of my opposition to the war.
Joe Lieberman's ego and pettiness seem to have abated for the time being as we find out who and what actually killed the Medicare buy-in: The f*&king lobbyists. And then there's still Ben Nelson's quest to attack women's rights as he strives to invoke as much Stupak language in the bill as possible.
What happened to the House? Congressmen were also in a legislative battle from the first day the health-care debate began. There were public displays of childishness throughout the process by movement conservatives on late Saturday nights; Rep. John Shadegg holding baby Maddie up and using her like a prop typified the behavior of the Republican party, but what did any of it accomplish? It looked more like a carnival of idiots than serious politicians working for the Americans who voted them to represent us.
The House has officially been neutered to the point of being irrelevant it would appear. They can throw tantrums like petulant stepchildren, hold their breaths until they turn blue, but in the end they are being totally ignored by the House of Lords.
How do House members feel after witnessing the antics of the ConservaDems in the Senate over the last few weeks? Their health-care bill -- which took a tremendous amount of painstaking work -- was finally merged with all three committees, but if they get ready to meet it appears their words of compromise will be as useless as a cheap bamboo wedding fan trying to keep you cool in the oppressive heat of the Mojave Desert.
When the House and Senate committee members meet in conference and supposedly merge their bills, exactly what can they do to influence it at all? If the Senate bill is as far as the Gang of Four, or Six or Ten or whatever it is, are willing to go, then is the House bill nothing more than a stage prop?
Do members of the House of Representatives feel jubilation at the thought that any pieces of major legislation they are asked to put together will ultimately be decided by President Lieberman, Queen Snowe, Mary Landrone, Ben "floppy hair" Nelson and Max Baucus? I'm sure more names will be added to the list.
I really want to know how they feel.
Update: Rep. Anthony Weiner speaks out against Lieberman on WNYC.
LEHRER: Up or down, if the bill gets through the senate with no public option and it gets through the Senate with the Ben Nelson Abortion restrictions, would you vote yes or no?
WEINER: I'm not taking the Senate Bill. We're going to go into a conference hopefully, we're going to get back to close to where the house is. We're not taking the Senate Bill. That Senate Bill should not become law."
Threatening to "kill the bill" works both ways---or at least it should.
threatening to kill the bill is that that strategy will always give the right wingers one hundred percent of what they want all of the time.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
IF THE DEMS PASS A SHIT BILL
the people get fucked, just like the repugs would do.
and
The people hate the dems as much as the repugs.
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Democrats find themselves in a lose-lose situation
Dec. 16: According to the latest NBC News/WSJ poll, if the Democratic majority passes or fails to pass their health reform legislation, they might be swept out of office in the 2010 elections. The Daily Kos' Markos Moulitsas discusses.
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common sense matters as much as truth
If the Damn Thing passes, we're losers. If it fails, the Republicans are winners.
Heads we lose, tails they win.
Our fearless leaders get totally out-maneuvered again. Thanks Harry Reid, thanks Nancy Pelosi. Y'all really know how to get things done.
But if you are arguing that the Democrats can regain credibility for 2010 by ditching the current bill and maybe starting over I'll have to say I don't believe that is possible. I still say the best strategy is to pass this thing and then go to a new bill that restores the medicare expansion only. That can be accomplished through budget reconciliation and Lieberman and the blue dogs can go suck on an exhaust pipe.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
that the dems will only generate the energy to support their corporate sponsors.
Some stuff you can't make up!
numbnuts will wait another decade to take it up again...Call and remind them that they KILLED 45,000 plus grandstanding on this bill this year! 1.800.828.0498.. Additionally we will have nothing to build on -amend-supplement...but will give the insurance companies a windfall--just like the credit card companies have gotten this past year!
It is like a starter home with acreage opposed to having to look for another place because it was not perfect when you need to move!
yeah, so lets give wing-nuts what they want... just to be nice.... go Dean!
Yyeah, so lets give wing-nuts what they want... just to be nice.... Go Dean!
Talk is cheap. Let's see what they DO.
Everyone is on the take. Remember that. This is not about actually fixing the legislation. It is about getting little pissant changes in order for members to save face.
The big issues...mandate, no public option, cross border marketing...will remain.
The Stupak bill will go...because its simple addition then elimination by the big bad liberals will be enough to let the conservatards win their elections.
THAT is how politics work. Senators scratch each other's backs...even across the aisle.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
I expect insurance companies can make a lot of money thru abortion coverage.
I for one want to see the bill killed.
I want healthcare costs to treble in the next 5 years. Maybe THEN the people will DEMAND real action.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
bunch of whining sheep seems like.
Five years is too long a time for people who are dying now because they can't get or afford basic care. And this in the USA. God I wish the democrats would grow a collective spine and stand up to the obvious corporate controlled coverage we get. This is shameful, and the fact that scum like Lieberman will someday rot in hell doesn't fix the problem right now.
2) the spine can be located via
http://www.opensecrets.org
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common sense matters as much as truth
I don't want the government messing with my medicare. Seriously folks, no public option, no mandates.
I think that Medicare should be eliminated. It's a crutch.
Praying can heal your soul and we all know that happy puppies have healing powers.
So...I think Congress should mandate praying and also have a mandate that says that every American has to buy a puppy.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
a cat.
It had better not.
This morning Sen. Harkin said the bill was like a starter home. The foundation was good and the home was strong. We can get this starter home now and add on to it and improve upon it as time goes by. He said we need the starter home badly and if we can get it now then we can start adding on and improving it more quickly.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Yeah...in 40 or 50 years we might really have something!
It's called "kicking the can down the road".
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
... next time around after the industry is pumped full of mandated customers with no cost control. This bill feeds the monster.
Kill the bill. If worse comes to worst, we just use "Medicare for All" as both a rallying cry and litmus test for next year's elections.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
and does anyone actually believe that that will happen? history seems to point at the opposite.
and this bill is not really a 'starter home' but more like a slum lord's rental property.
about the opposite thing.
History shows that entitlement programs are very, very hard to shrink once the public has them.
Also, I can't think of any entitlement program in which they were fully realized at the onset.
It's an imperfect analogy, and I'll grant you it may be a slumlord haven, but I think Harkin has a point.
Where can I go to read it? Do tell.
what are you talking about?
the bill? Perhaps we have a semantics issue here. I believe Medicare is an entitlement. I believe that government mandated purchase of private insurance policies by all citizens and forcing the middle class to pay for those who cannot afford to pay for themselves is not an entitlement. It's robbery, slavery, etc.
However, the notion that health care is a right is very much in the entitlement arena, if not yet fully realized.
This is the closest this country has gotten since the New Deal to get to this point.
I also believe that before this is over, you will something much more like Medicare for all in place. It may not be this year, but eventually, it will be.
This bill does not advance the ball.
It moves us sideways.
Preexisting conditions defacto still exist. What good is it if I can't afford the increased premium. Where's the government assistance to PEOPLE...not insurance companies. The government should be paying the providers DIRECTLY...why do we need these insurance middle man. I thought this was about EFFICIENCY.
I've lived too long to listen to nonsense like..."this is the closest we've come...or best we can do".
My apologies...but...BULLSHIT.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
I like you, Nicole.
Please don't become an apologist or cheerleader for this bag of shit they are trying to foist on us.
Don't make the same mistake that John and Susie or Gov. Dean did.
I believe you're smarter than that.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
And I sure as hell don't believe it.
I refuse to think killing this bill is the right move at this time. It may be after conferencing, but not now.
You continue to trust.
That's nice.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
If the corporations make it work and we get a republican majority again, they could use it to get rid of medicare and we will have even the seniors having to buy from the insurance companies. The failing medicare advantage plan is an example. I tried it and couldn't find a provider that would except the plan. Friends have tried it and the providers didn't get paid and the patient gets the bill.
Nicole, entitlements grew during the time that Democrats had CLEAR majorities in the Congress. They grew THEIR programs.
Entitlements have shrunk over the last 30 years.
This is not the political world of FDR, Kennedy, Johnson...or evven Nixon.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Republicans know for all their grousing they can't take away Medicare from Grandma and Grandpa. That's what I mean. It's political suicide to take away Medicare.
This bill isn't universal health coverage, and I'm convinced that in a very short period of time, it will be shown to be unworkable as it stands. But if you think of this as football game, we've put the ball on our side of the 50 yard line. It's at 49 and inches, but we keep trying to move the ball down the field to the goal. The alternative is to be on the other side and it's much harder to get it across the 50 yard line now, because the other side knows all our defensive calls.
"...we've put the ball on our side of the 50 yard line."
Or something even worse. Something destructive and deadly to America.
If we could get rid of the mandates, would you still consider it a turd?
You flush a turd.
Pulling the undigested corn out of it, doesn't make it edible.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
in it? It changes every time you turn around? And not in a good way.
I know for a fact there are fast and furious negotiations happening right now to figure out what is going to be in the final bill.
The fury the Senate leadership felt really put them back on their heels (which is good IMO, and we need to do a whole lot more).
But how do you characterize the bill as a turd when by your own admission, you don't know what's in it?
I know for a fact there are fast and furious negotiations happening right now to figure out what is going to be in the final bill
Beware politicians making sausage behind closed doors out of the public eye.
That's how we lost the Medicare buy in.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
I don't know yet.
And neither does anyone else.
But I do know that the ferociousness with which the Democrats got slammed by their own supporters made them gulp. What it will do to the final bill remains to be seen.
They enjoy gulping the money from the lobbyists more.
They'll get over it in 24 hours.
Sorry...history has proven me right. I've no reason to think otherwise.
The definition of insanity is...
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
insurance lobbyists to ease their pain?
good.
and it should have.
there many a'things they should be gulping about, yet it is heartening to hear that they might start catering to their supporters instead of those that'll never support them.
nervous. They should be.
But I'm not feeling particularly trusting that they will do the right thing. Whatever trust I have seems to slip away by the hour.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
But I have the benefit of seeing some of the communications from DC progressive offices--both on the hill and organizations.
MoveOn raised more than a million dollars in less than 48 hours to go after Joe Lieberman. You don't think that made DC stand up and notice and say "uh oh"?
Again, I reserve the right to pan the final outcome, because we don't know what that will be at this point. But I do know that they did not anticipate how upset we'd be.
The so-called "compromise" that you are talking about is to avoid reconciliation, so....it will NOT include a public option nor will it include a Medicare buy in.
Still feeling optimistic?
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
There is no third rail anymore.
Medicare was watered down with Section D.
Social Security isn't the nightmare politically that it used to be.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
privatization of Medicare is well under way. They are also working on SS.
Exactly.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Right. Dilute it, water it down and render it unpalatable to the point where losing it doesn't seem like much of a big deal any more.
but i wouldn't call this bill an entitlement program. that is, unless by 'entitle' you mean the govt will entitle the insurance industry to taxpayer money, tens of millions of new customers, etc.
i see it more like a corporate-welfare program that has the federal govt forcing taxpayers to buy a shoddy product against their will, with little to no protection from discriminatory pricing models. the entitlement seems to be that the govt will subsidize corporate profits in people that can't afford the gouged prices.
In the incarnation I understand it to be now, in a word, sucks. I'm not arguing that. Those mandates absolutely have to go.
But I am having both an internal debate and a behind-the-scenes debate with friends in congressional offices about what we can do now. At one level, there is a real sense of justice in throwing it back in Congress's face and tell them to do it right this time, and let them know that there are consequences to capitulating to the minority.
But at the same time, isn't that EXACTLY what the minority wants us to do? And do we want to reward their obstructionism and lies to punish the Democratic leadership for not being strong enough to stand up to them?
well, that is the conundrum. i see other regulars here making like comments.
but, tbh, i don't care. the minority can crow about their success in bringing the bill down all they want. the bill is bad, and should not pass.
politically speaking, though, if the bill does pass, the minority will not be silenced. it will give them bigger weapons to fire. especially when people start getting fined for lack of insurance, and all the other insurance-friendly language in the bill.
the dems will own healthcare and every problem contained within.
also, i don't believe that the democratic leadership's failure was in not standing up to the lies of the GOP. they didn't really want true HCR, they didn't want to buck their sugar daddies in the insurance/PHRMA industries. their failure was in trying to pretend they wanted reform, all the while meeting secretly with industry insiders.
is this: we'll be stuck with this forever if it passes, and that's the way it is. Kill this thing.
stuck with it forever?
No we won't. Fearmongering isn't helpful.
.
Congressional Bills get killed by the Supreme Court often enough. The buy-insurance-mandate will be killed quickly. But meanwhile, it's downright unAmerican enough to make all progressives look bad. Real bad.
Reagan and Bush appointees. It already appointed Bush to the presidency in 2000. They won't knock this mandate down. It will take years to even get before the Supremes, if they ever agree to hear it. They don't have to hear any cases, BTW. It's up to them.
to pay the insurance mandate, including about a million lawyers who know it is unconstitutional. Juries will refuse to convict those people. Appeals will be sympathetic and passed upwards.
Yeah, it'll get to the Supremes quickly enough -- within a year.
And no, the SCOTUS is not corrupt. Compromised, perhaps, but not corrupt.
They're already preparing papers to sue against the mandates without some sort of public competition pool.
I'm sure the ACLU has a task force working on it now.
difference? Lawyers don't work for free. There is a substantial legal question about whether is is constitutional or not. If you do not pay your taxes, do you think you get a trial by jury? You don't. You get audited and penalized if the audit doesn't go in your favor. It will NOT get there within a year. A case cannot just jump to SCOTUS. There is a process that must be followed from lower courts on up the ladder to SCOTUS finally. Don't take my word for it. Research it.
any more than the laughable statement that they are trying to privatize Social Security and Medicare now.
They aren't. Bush tried to privatize Social Security and blew his "I got political capital" wad on it. Why? Because it's a third rail for politicians and they got too much pushback from citizens for them to ignore, despite the copious amount of lobbying money from financial institutions to look the other way.
So give me a break on the great corporatist conspiracies. I'll believe your Medicare privatization bill on Nancy Pelosi's desk is right next to the teabagger's "Taking away my guns" bill.
There are plenty of factual issues and discussion to be had on this subject. Like I wrote before, I'm conflicted on between the politics and the policies of this bill.
But your fearmongering on this adds nothing to the discussion.
I'll drink to everything you said in that comment.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
anyway? Do you know that private corporations process Medicare claims now? Specifically "National Government Services, Inc.," a private corporation regardless of its name. You are on thin ice here. Just because you don't want to believe it doesn't make it untrue. And just because "they" learned from experience to keep the backroom workings out of the daylight doesn't mean they are not still working to privatize Medicare and SS.
Are you serious about thinking these backroom workings are going on about privatizing Medicare and SS? I mean really serious?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
What do you think a Medicare Advantage Plan and Medicare Part D are? If you do not buy a Part D plan from a private insurance company, your only other choice is to pay out of your pocket. The mandatory purchase of health insurance now pending will lead to mandatory Part D purchasing. Do you think that BigPharma gave away 80 billion in return for nothing? What do you think is going on here?
If you don't understand the difference between contracting out administration and privatizing, then you probably should back off the corporatist conspiracy theories.
My husband is contracted to the County of Alameda for legal services. It doesn't mean that the County of Alameda is privatizing their legal department.
And yes, it is untrue that they are trying to privatize Medicare and Social Security, and moreover, contrary to your malevolent shadow government beliefs, they couldn't do that without publicly voting on it.
with respect to Medicare? Is that what you think the Advantage Plans are?
Senate bill a big win for insurance companies
Dec. 16: Wendell Potter, former CIGNA vice president, explains what insurance companies stand to gain from the health reform legislation.
Sorry! You certainly cannot prove that they will try to kill SS and Medicaid/medicare even if by a thousand small pieces of legislation.
the Stupak amendment is just another swipe in the war against a woman's choice. the repugs do have a few smart people among them.
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common sense matters as much as truth
what happened to midicare part D?
has anyone "revisited' it?
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common sense matters as much as truth
a lot to deal with in less than a year in office, Bascombe.
We didn't elect a warlock, able to wave his magic wand and make everything better instantly.
There are congress critters anxious to fix Medicare as part of this overhaul (see Amy Klobuchar), but again, no one knows how this will all pan out just yet.
with (R)ahm in the WH, I fear it's a harbinger of even worse.
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common sense matters as much as truth
say that one more time, I am going to find him and strangle him with his tie. Senator: STFU! Are they all this senile? Maybe that's the problem. Has he even heard about all the foreclosures? Huh? Starter home, my ass.
can't afford houses, even crappy ones.
family were...umm...
died.
He is now just another "going along to get along" DNCer.
Same with Weiner. He's talkin' all tough now, but when push comes to shove, he'll cave.
They'll all cave, except Kucinich.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
sorry to say
the Wellstone part, i mean to say
your name's Lebowski, Lebowski... and your wife is Bunny
and a liar to boot. he said a lot of nice things that are NOT in the bill.
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common sense matters as much as truth
My dad is pushing ninety and remembers the old days , workers fighting for their rights for instance , getting beat up by hired thugs but not backing down , people finally so fed up ( and desperate ) they fought back . He's right , said when things get bad enough the people will finally get fed up , actually unite and and then when all hell breaks loose , the politicians get scared and some balance is restored . We ain't there yet . What it will take who the hell knows , people certainly have not got any brighter .
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
bill might just be the final straw.
Heh...I think the people will only rise up once the corporations have finally taken every last time from every middle class American.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
rather than be FORCED to buy a sub-standard product I don't want.
It's un-Constitutional. If this MassPlan on steroids passes there will be so many lawsuits brought to shut it down it will make our heads spin.
I'd sign on the class action lawsuit line right along with any tea bagger or Paulbot.
It's a rotten piece of legislation as it now stands in the Senate. I'm at the point that it matters not "why" any particular person is against this. Any way you slice it it stinks!
F 'em.
**Thom Hartmann may have a good point when he tells Progressives that we should take advantage of all that great organizing the teabaggers have done and go in and join them on the issue of killing this legislation.
There are some issues ALL of us will agree on. NOBODY wants to be FORCED to PURCHASE A PRODUCT FROM A FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
The People of the United States Versus The United States Government.
Long overdue when you think about it.
All together now.
I'll be there too as I'm sure many others will.
business. How many people committing to taking to the streets in order to stop this garbage will it take to make them listen without our actually having to do it? If they are so open to threats, well...
beats sitting around spewing hoping I will be heard at this point.
I'm pretty much sitting on the fence on whether or not to walk away from the turds the Senate has dropped on America's doorstep. Well, I'm sitting on the fence but ... with one foot in Howard Dean territory and definitely leaning his way. He was part of a discussion on "On Point" this morning (WBUR) and kind of blew everyone away. Not just his convictions but the sheer grasp the man has of the issues. He convinced me.
But I'm confused (as I was by the Hyde shenanigans) by Nelson's and others' saying straight out that they won't vote for a bill if it has a legal procedure that they don't like in it. I know there's an answer to this, but a frigid Canada norther blew in last night and my brain can only deal with simple issues today. Seems to me the "conservadems" have a right to shout and weep but not to force passage of federal legislation which specifically withholds a legal procedure from one sector of the population.
I guess I better go sit on my coal stove, warm up fast ... and forever ruin my reproductive capacity.
everyone's doing great, thanks to the Clinton years, has a nice portfolio, and deserves a good health care package. Heck the IRS will even automatically deduct your premium for you.
What could be easier!
I mean come on your an Italian man! Forget this touchy feely crap!
Guess there's a "B" list Washington Christmas Party coming up.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Don't get me started. I have an Ice Pick...
Wow! That little infant told him all that?? Amazing!
These GOP are truly embarrassing to me as an American who must share this nation with them.
This bill is far from a "starter home." And no, it doesn't have a good foundation, either.
It's an uninhabitable slum waiting to happen. It's good for phoney-baloney politicians and the insurance thugs. It serves their purpose of of making progressives look weak, incompetent, and unAmerican. In my view, it will sink us completely in the coming election cycle.
How the hell will that help us? Be merciful. Let it die now.
I heard someone refer to it as. I tend to agree.
I prefer trailer park healthcare...or will Glen Beck call me a racist?
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
or Hillbilly Health Care . . your choice. We got choice man!
he voted for the Stupak Amendment. Apparently a serious part of women's health was expendable to him, so why not the whole bill?
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Looking back at past history you believe that ? It's called desperation , avoiding political embarrassment and defeat , rest assured at this point anything that does pass is going to be a bad deal , a gift to Insurance Industry and Pharma , WORSE than what we are dealing with now . I am surprised that the Repugs are not lined up and ready to sign on to this bill but they'd rather take Obama down , that's priority one .No matter how you look at it , it is not good . I'm not being MR. Negative here , it's just a fact . The good guys are caught between a rock and a hard place .
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
These are some of the same complaints I hear coming from the tea baggers. They don't want this bill either and in some cases for the same reasons. They say they don't want the govt. telling them they must by health insurance. They say they want to rise up in force against the govt. Somehow, some on the right and the left are saying the same things. Now that is frightening.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
It's all about the benjamins, baby.
Everyone has to shell out the dough. We are all united by a common theme...government driven poverty.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
The gov't is just a tool for them.
people instead of the other way around.
the 'tea-baggers' were against any kind of reform, right from the beginning, for fantasy-based and illogical reasons, not to mention racism.
they vocally fought against any real reform that would have helped them.
seriously, it's no different than those dickheads being upset about the deficit now... but they were silent and happy worshipping at the altar of Bush the whole time he was growing the mess.
I was concerned about the deficit at the time and still see it as a problem, but not for the same reasons that the teabaggers (what little reason can be shared amongst them).
the people on the left who are against this version of "reform" have a point, at this time (after all of the conservative input, and Obama admin's lack of doing anything meaningful) what we are left with is not reform at all.
no single payer. no public option. no new regulation on the insurance and pharm industries. no increased competition, but now every American is going to be forced to buy into the current insurance scam-ola.
I understand the (I shudder to use this term at this time) 'hope' that things will be improved over time, and yes, I do know that once a social program is implemented it is hard to do away with, but unlike some I do not see this as a 'solid foundation', except, maybe, for the insurance industry.
and just following their marching orders. We, despite our non reactive and sincere approach in wanting true reform still got the screw job.
That's why I'm pissed off. I've had it with this shit. Patience has it's limits.
where the bill can be called a social program other than it has the mandate in it. You are still having to buy the insurance from an insurance company. It really looks like a way to kill medicare.
I didn't vote for Obama to get screwed.
I did.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
They believe that it's evil. Big difference. Teabaggers would kill Social Security, Medicare and anything else you can think of including going back to the gold standard. We want a few Senators to stop dictating the direction of the country.
internet connection is being rendered useless by all these frickin' ads.
Make it stop, John. Please make it stop.
For the love of dog.....pleeeeze.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addo...
Corruption favors the wealthy.
.
is so peaceful now I will never get sick and because of my now soothed nature I will not need medical care ever.
Thx
I guess the puppy arrived!
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
I named it AdKiller
I don't see any.
If all we commenters PROMISED to visit the ad-page 2 time a day?
So far as the usefulness of the current Senate bill: Anything that causes the Insurance Co's stock to go up is bad for Us,
Fiver's link above. It'll take only seconds of your time to download and install ABP. I haven't seen an ad since doing so with the first edition of that add on. Alternatively write a big check to replace the ad revenue.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
If we had enough support from big Dem donors who instead funnel money to worthless pols like Ben Nelson, none of us would ever need an ad...The site costs money to run...Sorry for the troubles..
About like the horse after beomg rendered by the glue factory?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Who gives a shit how the house feels. How do YOU feel after the government has raped you and your family? How do you feel now that you will be required by law to pay these death eaters, or pay a fine for existing.
This is nothing short of a head tax that has no up side. You live, you pay taxes. You live you pay the insurance mafia. You die.
This has become too sad to make fun of. This has country has become the worst of all worlds when it could have been at least a good one.
To the Majority leaders of the Senate, the House of Representatives, their Minority counterparts, the President of the United States, and various others (such as Senators McCain, Lieberman, and all the others who are making a mess out of our legislative system and the future of our economy and our government):
What the hell is wrong with you guys? Don't you know we are watching all of you as you behave like High School adolescents and make our lawmaking processes a joke? Don't you know you were elected by ordinary people like me and, while we don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars to make sure your campaign hotel accommodations are first rate, we believed that in voting for you... all of you...that you would not only represent us, but LISTEN to our concerns and work together to solve our collective problems?
I don't think you do. Any of you... and, frankly, I am losing faith in your campaign promises, your intelligence and intellect, and your ability to do the best you can for the majority of Americans.
Are you aware that at least 99.9% of the people who voted for all of you are NOT Insurance CEOs, or Bankers, or Stockbrokers, or, for that matter, Party Attack Dogs? We are working people... some of us long past the point of collecting unemployment as we try to find a job in the economy you have previously legislated into existence. Yet every day you remove your lips from some lobbyist's backside and remove one more item from the list of reasons we originally gave you our votes. And, if you are an intentional staller like Mitch McConnell, a direct employee of the Insurance companies like Holy Joe Lieberman, or a Religion-created Anti- Abortionist like Ben Nelson, you are more concerned with making most Americans a species of serfs with no voice in the matter.
Well, I have a suggestion for all of you: Listen to what THE PEOPLE are saying and try to factor that into your decisions. And I warn you, the people are NOT saying: "don't do anything." They are NOT saying "make sure my money makes the Insurance companies richer." They are NOT saying "ignore where the Banks are spending the give-away millions you gave them."
And Nelson... for you and the anti-choice contingent in general. If you're going to take away a woman's right to maintain her own body, then you have to do something similar to men... my suggestion is a law requiring IMMEDIATE CASTRATION for any man who gets a woman pregnant against her will or who stands in the way of a woman's power of choice. And make this law publicly enforced! If you do, you'll see how fast any Abortion amendments drift away into the night.
And Mr. President, it is time for you to get off your butt and take charge of the things we elected you for. We didn't elect you to stay out of the way of Congress. We DID elect you to keep the promises you made... or at least to TRY!
I'm getting tired of ALL OF YOU. And I'm not the only one. Your problem is that you'll wait until there's an election to find out for yourself.
Sincerely,
One angry, unemployed taxpayer,
Bill Tchakirides at Under The LobsterScope
. .
"...frankly, I am losing faith in your campaign promises, your intelligence and intellect, and your ability to do the best you can for the majority of Americans." You forgot "integrity." Please allow me to add that one.
...[Deleted. Please don't ruin your comment with a violent intro and outro. Thank you-Sitemonitor].
Our government has been hijacked by corporate American via lobbyist "campaign donations" which are plain and simple bribery. A bribery is where you give somebody money with an expectation of a certain result in you favor... that's exactly what is going on in our government.
The problem we have no way to stop it. Throwing the bums out won't work if you don't fix the bribery root cause. In actuality a revolution is the ONLY way. It's too bad... [Deleted-Sitemonitor].
are going to have to seek Political Exile in other countries at this rate. Rather then be a "subject" to a corrupt system, a Corporate Dictatorship.
*
your name's Lebowski, Lebowski... and your wife is Bunny
He is a pretty good progressive Dem and he is saying, they should pass this bill, because it does have some good bits of insurance reform in it and they are close to 60 votes on it. Then, come back after the holidays and add to it with reconciliation (simple majority). He did not say it like, this is what we should do, it was more like, this is what we are going to do.
Anyway, I'm letting it go until after the holidays.
I'm about a week ahead of you in letting it go until after the holidays. I'm in a wait and see mode right now and I just refuse to ruin the next week bitching and moaning about something that I don't even know for sure what it contains.
That is basically what I heard Harkin say this morning on Morning Joe. Made a lot of sense to me.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
the right thing to do. I just wish they'd keep their cards a little closer to their collective chests. If it becomes clear that this will be the strategy, as I hope it will, that will only stiffen opposition to the little good that remains in the current bill. It isn't baby free yet. There's still some baby in that bathwater
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Tonight Beck has it all figured out. According to him passing this healthcare bill is the first step toward communism and socialism. Something that apparently Obama and his friends have been planning for some time now. He says the govt knows the health care bill requiring health insurance be purchased by all is unconstitutional. He said if it passes it will go to the courts and by the time the supreme court rules it unconstitutional the taxing sysytem will already be in motion and nothing will stop it.
He also ranted about the founding fathers never mentioning healthcare for all. I don't know this for sure but I doubt there were many healthcare insurance companies back then.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
First sentence:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
"Promote the general welfare" Arguing that universal health care doesn't promote the general welfare of the populace is ludacris.
Well that's Beck, ludacris.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
for wingnut politicians to have their "socialist" healthcare, but it's not good for the rest of us???!!!
"Because...it's OURS! Nyah Nyah!"
NOBODY 2012
Now Beck is saying the "radical violent left" is going to rise up against the govt because of the strip down in the healthcare bill. He is saying that the teabaggers were never a threat to the govt the way the "radical violent left" will be.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
just like my 1 year old nephew. They both say lots of things that don't make any sense. Now if I can just get him a job at Fox Noise...
NOBODY 2012
and even England looks like heaven right now.
NOBODY 2012
I just called these 2 organizations.
Omaha Steaks 800 228 2778
Nebraska Beef Council 800-421-5326
and told a person in both organizations, one a beef seller and the other an organization that promotes Nebraska beef that
I communicate with thousands of people on the net and that
UNLESS their CEOs get Senator Ben Nelson to get all Anti abortion language out of the health care bill they can forget me doing business with them and also forget about me buying Nebraska bred beef at the Supermarket which I will make sure that the local Supermarket does not sell.
Now it appears your turn to call them.
Thank you.
www.democratz.org
and spread the word please.
Demand congress fix the prescription drug benefit
go here http://bit ly/drug_benefit
Send a message to traitor Joe Lieberman demanding he help enact a strong single payer public option into law.
http://bit ly/traitorjoe
Send this message wide and far. Thank you.
collectivelly this is why they all suck and are full of shit. One Senator or Dem stands up to act like they give a rats ass, then magically nothing happens.
Lip service is the new standard we hold people too.
60 votes, the new majority. USA! USA
U
S
A
Our Democracy is the best money can buy
You don't like abortion? Then don't have one, you pontificating fuck. And what does that have to do with healthcare?
Fuck him. Fuck Lieberman. Fuck Landrieu and her "it's a good bill if I get 300 million$."
These people are too much.
To quote Santa Claus: "HO! HO! HO!"
1)If the gang of 4-6-8 or whatever refuse to compromise with the House, all the goodies they were promised are gooooooooooooone.
2)Think the Senators will have the kahunas to filibuster the House in Committee? Like these House guys and gals will roll over just because the senators think they're the most awesome thing since the Carta Magna. Yeah Right!
3)There is way too much at stake here, and if I was member of the reconciliation team for the House, my message would be crystal clear: "This is where the Art of the Possible hits the road. Those who can't or won't ride have the inalienable right get the hell out of here right now. Any questions?"
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