Kristol admits to Stewart that government run health care is THE BEST!
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Kristol does TDS again. I'm not thrilled that this conservative hatchet man gets valuable air time on CC as much as he has, but Stewart does kick him around. Jon gets Bill Kristol to admit that the government run health care for the military is the best care on earth and then tells us that ordinary Americans aren't deserving of the best health care available. See, Bloody Bill does believe in rationing health care after all. So Kristolthat admits that government run health care is the best, but Americans should only have shitty health care plans with insurance companies making huge profits. (It starts around the eleven minute mark) rough transcript.
Stewart: Why no health care, Why no health care reform for Americans because the military fighting for us, gave it up. Why do you hate America?
Stewart: Why not? Why shouldn't the government provide some sort of care to the 50 million that are uninsured?
Kristol: No, well the military has a different health system than the rest of Americans.
Stewart: It's a public system, no?
Kristol: Yea, they don't have an option they're all in the military.
Stewart: Why don't we go with that?
Kristol: (Stupid look comes across his face.) I don't know. Is military health care what you really...first of all it's really expensive, they deserve it, the military...
Stewart: But people in public do not?
Kristol: No, the American public do not deserve the same...
Stewart: Are you saying Americans shouldn't have access to the same plan health care that we give the soldiers?
Kristol: Yes, to our soldiers? Absolutely.
Stewart: Really?
Kristol: I think the one thing if you become a soldier...
Stewart: So you just said, Bill Kristol just said that the government can run a first class health care system.
Kristol: Sure it can.
Stewart: A government run health care system is better than the private health care system. You just said that...
Kristol: I don't know if it's better.
Stewart: No, you just said it was better.
Kristol: I didn't say it was better all around.
Stewart: No, you said it was better. You said it's the best, it's a little more expensive, but it's better. I just want to write this down. The government runs the best health care...
Stewart: I understand that so what you are suggesting is that the government could run the best health care system for Americans, but it's a little too costly so we should have the shitty insurance companies health care.
Kristol: I'm suggesting our soldiers deserve better health care...
Stewart: They deserve the best. They have the best government run health care money can buy.
Nobody is denying that solders should have the best care available because they should, but why aren't Americans allowed to have the same benefits? I know Kristol has all that blood on his hands because he helped send the country into Iraq and so many innocents and soldiers have died or been injured because of that travesty. C&Ler Michael writes in via email:
When Stewart asked why the rest of the country couldn't have that, Kristol responded very quickly by suggesting that ordinary Americans didn't deserve it. I'm guessing that's in reference to the fact that the rest of us didn't serve in uniform.
While the statement itself is a little cringe-worthy, it struck me. Kristol seemed to float a notion that there's a tier system as far as American life is concerned. What's more, I realized that this is not a new notion.
Conservatives do seem to put forth a Social Darwinist attitude; but I usually see that coming out of hawks referring to the lives of the people who live in countries other than ours. Usually right before (or during) bombing, but that's beside the point.
Yes, it's easy to miss this point because Kristol blathers on so much. COnservatives want to choose who is deserving of what at all times.
Republicans For Dead Americans
Single Payer, FULL National Health.Health care providers should be government employees. That will reform delivery and control costs.
Now, I see the light. True socialized medicine.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
You're a 'radical!' - but....one fine day (along some twisted incremental path there)!
This is why the internet is so much better than TV I watched the 15 minute unedited version and it was great. much more of a natural exchange with enough time for follow ups, side issues, rather than scripted talking points in under three minutes.
the right says this government health care rations health care. health care is RATIONED now to only those who can pay for it privately with ever increasing heaps of cash.
Got one of the salient arguments straight! (Compare with E.U.)
you will live!
Kristol is such a fucking lightweight. The Nation's most trusted newsman bitch slapped around another bullshitter. The daily lies perpetrated on Health Care reform is 9/11-Iraqi war redux...the liars can always count on the insanely stupid.
but gladly supported sending the sons and daughters of fellow Americans to a war that never shouldve happened, Iraq. all for false reasons based on twisted intelligence. he really is a criminal.
I love how at first Kristol started to say "DO you really want military style health care..." before realizing he was about to imply we give our soldiers crappy healthcare. So in quick response he made the eror of stating government healthcare is the best!
Good stuff Stewart.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
He couldn't come out and say that the miltary received substandard care, because then he'd be accused of lack of patriotism. So he had to say they received first-rate care. And as soon as he made that concession, he was trapped by the conclusion that the care provider to the military, which is provided by the government, is first-rate. And if the government can run first-rate care, then all the arguments about it getting between you and your doctor fail.
Intellectually, Kristol really is a lightweight. He's sophmoric in his approach to policy issues, easily confounded, and routinely wrong about straightfoward matters.
I suspect Kristol will find his way back to Fox, and will argue at some point that VA care is too expensive for the average American. The natural answer to this argument is that VA care is more expensive (to the extent it actually is) because you're dealing with high-level trauma, i.e., the VA has to cover the costs of bullet wounds, etc. at a rate far in excess of other populations.
I thought this moment was the most telling of the interview. Republican lies are like tar pits and Kristol almost got stuck.
Combat medics train at some of our larger inner city hospitals, treating victims of gun violence that approximates battlefield casualties. Why shouldn't they receive the best health care as well?
i'll bet that pro-reformers accept less money from the health care lobby than anti-reformers. it's that simple.
Politicians don't have constituents, they have lobbyists.
I just returned from today's New York City protest at ABC where F.A.I.R. and other supporters of a single payer..."Medicare for All" health care system delivered thousands of petitions to the ABC executives who booted Obama's personal physician out of their "Town Hall Health Care Forum".
I can see why Jon Stewart is looked at as the most "trustworthy" in the lot of those who give the "news".
He and Comedy Central know how to go for the jugular where ABC and the other MSM outlets are all about sticking to the corporate script and not "rocking the boat."
Three cheers for Jon Stewart! He blind-sided Kristol!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
The Corporation is a totalitarian organization. ABC is part of conglomerate. They will do nothing but tow the corporate line.
Stewart is in a corporate structure also, but he is the golden goose and given a certain amount of leeway. It is not without bounds.
To say that he is the most trusted 'news anchor' underscores the complete decimation of any vitality of that profession.
I see a parallel with the work of someone Rod Serling in the 50s and 60s. He said he was able to explore social themes only in the context of fantasy.
This is an interesting and terrifying article TimesOnline here
A Chris Hedges piece on being a Corporate employee here
It ads up to the domination of the country and the culture by totalitarian organizations.
With a hierarchy of control, although with more and more concentration. It is utterly chilling.
And despite that, thank you for your involvement in NYC. I could only afford enough gas to get to the Ohio border.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Corporations are totalitarian institutions which serve no societal purpose but to defer costs to external sources though tricks and mental feats.
For example, Calling themselves "People" or "Persons" Which they are not.
Deferring costs related to pollution and waste to "future generations".
Removing themselves from the people they 'serve' by shipping jobs to the cheapest employable people.
Corporations were meant to serve the people, now the people are serving corporations.
In addition, they now act not unlike royalty and nobility. they have people brag about them, lie for them, cover their mistakes so that the people won't figure it out.
And they now plaster their feces and spokepeople everywhere.
The Romans did this. Senators and great houses would have paid braggarts, paid mourners, paid liars. All trying to sway 'public' opinion.
News used to be about objective facts. But clever corporate manipulation has turned it into a game of he said she said.
Then they bought both sides and we never noticed that NEITHER TEAM IS OUR SIDE.
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
Those organizations do not exist to do journalism. They exist soley as the disinformation/public manipulation organ of a unified corporatacracy. An informed public is their worst nightmare.
What about the Walter Reed scandal? Wasn't that shameful, bottom of the barrel treatment of veterans?
Oh, yeah! The Bushies privatized it to a Halliburton spin-off to prove that the free market can do better, if you just give the job to the friends of Bush.
Then they tried to push the blame off on a military officer present in the area. It's the military that can't take care of their own. That admiral probably has a Halliburton job for taking that bullet.
That's why we only get the "free" market plans. Its' what we deserve.
Paul C
I saw a woman on Faux the other day while at my dads house and they had on a woman that had her breasts cut off in case of "rationing" so in the event she gets breast cancer in the future she won't have to worry.
Nutbags, one and all
We could certainly slow the aging process down if it had to work its way through Congress.
- Will Rogers
I had lunch with a lady today in NYC and she told me that her hairdresser was discovered to have malignant melanoma on his nose and that his insurance company would pay to have his nose REMOVED but would not cover the $60k for nasal reconstructive surgery!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
... and other rightwing pundits and preachers such as Boortz, Limbaugh etc. is that food, jobs, homes, small eggs of disposable income, and health care are WEAPONS! Never let the great unwashed mensch have any (unless they're needed healthy and alive for something else, such as dying in war for them, buying their best selling screeds in the liberal media they hate so much, and making them richer than they need to be by sitting on the sofa all Schaivoed out on the FOX NEWS plantation).
Just beat him down constantly- and constantly more!- with his same stupid narrative...... (Poison) Kisses to you, BK = asshole-oohh!!
I saw a promotional ad for the health care bill that was sponsored by pharmaceutical companies. I was confused at first but then realized they want all the new customers that govt health care would bring in.
doesnt mind spending billions killing people in some far away country...but god forbid we should spend billions making sure that all americans live healthy productive lives
fuck him
Where do these oh-so-holy soldiers come from? They're not born into the military. Think about that you ignorant a-hole.
Doesn't fit into any (pre)rehearsed "logic" on his behalf!
We all deserve the best healthcare our tax dollars can provide.
He said that the military has different health care needs. Fucking Moron. You are wrong.
The vast majority of the millions of people who serve or have served in the military have normal healhcare needs.
Some, a miniscule number, need extensive care for massive battlefield injuries. Just like the miniscule number of non-military folks who need care for massive injuries inflicted by other means than war.
OK, Fucknut? Get it now? Humans in any work capacity will have over the long term about the same type of health needs.
Go fuck yourself in a dark corner with a bag tied over your face.
I have used the military system on active duty and the VA system once I was discharged.
Let's see - the military system has immunized me; pulled my wisdom teeth; fitted me for glasses and contacts; provided full preventive examinations; set a broken ankle; provided rehab for said broken ankle; provided an MRI on my back; taken care of my teeth; provided flu shots; checked my blood pressure and cholesterol; provided information on lowering both; treated a sore shoulder; a sore back; done blood work and here I am today at 44 - amazingly still alive.
And I am in fantastic physical condition.
Yet as of now I don't have health insurance because of my employment situation and will not qualify economically for VA benefits until 2009 has expired.
Bill Kristol - fuck off.
Out.
and disarmingly lucid encounters with such a petty and transparently destructive individual (on a national scale). Glad this happened!!
I don't watch TV much, but my husband paused the Tivo and made me go see that segment.
Stewart was in top form. This was much needed,
Bill Kristol, chickenhawk. And douchebag.
Since the one they claim to worship as a god (Jesus H.Christ) spent all his time helping the poor and healing the sick, I suspect he'd want everyone to have health coverage..Unless Jesus was a capitalist!
One worth mentioning "over and over again" in this ****ry- replete with 'ZZZZZealots' who supposedly rely upon (H)is teachings....
I didn't realise so much that -substituting C for K- that 'K'untry might be such a forbidden sub for a "proper spelling". Indeed - that is the lamest of prohibitions i've seen in quite some time....G**d Blayesss!! n'Luv to all!!!
Almost like 100 years ago the drive to turn Jesus into 'a jew' happened.
Christ will morph into whatever the people holding the strings want him to be.
He spoke openly against what the jewish people of the time did. (I can't speak to what they did or did not do.) But then, it was taught in sunday school and even Jesus Christ Superstar that he was "King of the Jews'.
But why did we fall for that? How does someone 'rewrite' stuff like that?
Now after 100 years, we now have 'Jesus the Fascist'. WWJT? (Who would Jesus torture?)
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
He didn't have a problem with his fellow Jews, he had a problem with the Pharisees and their adherence to man made law: For example, the Pharisees would scorn the sinner, Jesus would forgive the sinner.
Have you never seen the genealogy of Jesus in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke? The former traces the lineage back to Abraham, the latter even further back- to Adam- both passing through David.
That Christians made a point of avoiding says a lot more about the Gentiles who controlled the churches after the original Jewish (Peter, James & Paul) leaders died off than anything else.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
.
"King of the Jews" was what (according to the New Testament) the Romans had inscribed on the cross - the legend "INRI" whish appears above Christ's head is a Latin acronym meaning "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews"
So, that's where THAT comes from.
At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love.
Why is it that Neo Cons have such an issue understanding comedy. And could this be in any way related to how many of the most innovated, forward thinking (and most trusted) people are comedians?
At about 4:44 John delivers a great line about how Sara Palin "... is like bush without all that experience". End of joke, everyone laughs....then Kristol throws in the irony he sees like he discovered something. At least John's hand motions and the audience laughing gave him a clue.
I have to agree with you. If you watch F word news and their casual news talk program with the 3 douches who's combined IQ can't be higher than a turtle's, it's embarassing when they attempt to crack a joke. And so it goes with every right wing pundit, talking head and media personality.....zero sense of humor. It's just not there. I'm not exactly sure why that is but clearly it's a deficiency. Perhaps it's exactly the reason why they are right wingers. They lack the necessary mental faculties to grasp a more evolved perspective and part of that lacking is a sophisticated sense of humor.
is the Republican ideal in comedy.
... biggest problem was that he was constantly yapping, his attempt to out-shout Stewart, and stop Stewart from getting his points out. But what it resulted in was that he couldn't LISTEN to what Stewart was saying -- and the audience could.
I'm sure Kristol thought he was about to embark on an easy deal, but it was disastrous for him. He looked stupid, and Jon looked rather good. And Kristal was the screamer, not Jon.
Bill Kristol laughs like a barking seal.
When Stewart had him on the ropes, Kristol would deliver one of his Neo-Con forced "oh, I get it!" laugh. The kind of nervous laugh that tries to signal to everyone that "I'm just as cool as everyone else, but in reality I know everyone is on to me, and I hate you for it."
Then Billy K. "really, really gets it", finds it funny, and starts to
laughbark like his handlers are coming with a bucket of fish.I can see Billy K. now. He is eating peanut butter and has a strong seal bark laugh attack. Wishhh! Up his seal barking nose, only to be lodge in some remote nasal passage. Billy? You OK, man? Want me to call 911?
So, they think average Americans don't "deserve" it.
They've made the decision that they can steal trillions our tax dollars to pursue unprovoked wars of aggression to flow power to the military industrial complex—first Vietnam and now Iraq.
So, we're good enough to be tax paying slaves that fund unnecessary wars that jackoffs like him fearmongered to get underway, but we're not good enough to ensure our family, friends, and neighbors have good health.
I would love to meet this smug jackass in a dark alley.
Removing the obvious expenses (due to war or military related injuries) given to our military men and women through the VA system, how much does our government spend per capita to keep the VA program? And how much does it costs each person with the same exact benefits throught the private system? Is there such a study available?
The best medical care I ever got was while I was in the military. Why anyone would think that civilians are undeserving of the best medical care is beyond my understanding.
Something really bothers me when he says citizens don't deserve the same health care as soldiers.
It reminds me of the fascists in Starship Troopers who would only grant citizenship to people who had served in the military. Those who didn't were 2nd class citizens.
The owners and the owned.
To the rich, 'people' is synonymous with 'cattle' or 'labour units'.
'The devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th, the New World Order was born on Sept 11th.' - Immortal Technique
...to deserve any health care at all?
but somehow I think Kristol, mush brain that he is, isn't able to comprehend that the military produces no goods - the civies who Kristol says don't deserve the same level of (socialized health) care pay for all of the Military to have the 'best socialized health care' available.
I'm sure in Billies empty head the military makes money out of thin air through all their wonderful 'deservedness'.
It was Robert Heinlein who first suggested two-tier citizenship in “ Starship Trooper ” but the advantage that a veteran got was the right to vote, not the right to competent health care.
And in case Kristol has forgotten — he never served.
As one of my SGTs pointed out to me once, if the officers serving as doctors on a military base were so good, they would be making much more money at a real hospital somewhere. Just curious, but what did Willie have to say about the Walter Reed thing? I found his claim about how we get paid less than everyone else rather humorous, personally I think I am making more money now than I did at my best civilian job ($12.00 hr).
As someone at Sadly No suggested, this means that a SGT gets all the free health care he wants, but his ill mother just gets to suffer (dont tell Willie though, we can bring our dependants into our health care system).
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
When Jon asked him why not go with what the military has (just after 11:00), Bill began to answer, but then stopped himself, "Is military health care really what you...[want]?" He then started to ramble on about how it is in fact *better* than what we have and maybe the rest of us don't deserve such a great system. It was a beautiful bind--either he says that the military is getting crappy care and the Bushies have abandoned our soldiers (and their care is not good enough for us) OR he says it is great care, but we don't deserve/can't afford extending it to the entire American public.
is the most trusted name in news.
He asks the more direct questions and doesn't just let people, like Kristol, get by with their little non-answer answers. I love it when Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert bring guys like Kristol on to expose the real person rather than this image they can paint themselves because the other members in the "news" industry allow them to do so.
Kristol saying that people don't deserve the best health care shows us just how people like him, Krauthammer, etc. think. The shear arrogance of the man when he condescendingly tells Jon not to "think to hard" and that he sees that Jon's "head is about to explode" shows that he thinks he's some sort of genius when really, I think Stewart was trying to figure out how he's supposed to get through the stupid and help Kristol understand.
One side thing from the health care issue too - his heart flutters when she speaks? I think he just pretty well summed up how most of the right-wing men think of Sarah Palin (and I apologize in advance for the image) - they have an erection when they think about her. I'm guessing Kristol, Pat Buchanan, Rush Limbaugh, and many other old conservatives are hoping that she can be their indiscretion one day and that's why they'll continue supporting her as some sort of "brilliant woman".
Way to go Jon. Howard Dean filled in for Keith Olberman last night and spent much of the show on healthcare. It was good. He interviewed a guy who's written a book about the outstanding care (high patient satisfaction and cost effective) health care provided by the VA. He also interviewed the guy who previously worked for Cigna and is now on our side trying to fight the big insurance companies who have a strangle hold on the health care system and continue to screw us over with the help of many of our elected representatives.
Jon TOTALLY led Kristol down the path, approaching from the neocon weak flank of knee-jerk praising the military without thought until Kristol, looking trapped realized he'd admitted that gov't run healthcare is the best.
Suhhhhh-WEET!
and receipent of the healthcare they provide i can assure you it aint all that great. in fact, it's a crap shoot. you may get someone fairly good. then again, you may get someone reading from the manual while they are trying to help you.
most unsettling.
owe my life and limb, several times over to the military healthcare system. I'd be dead three times over, or permanently disabled were it not for military healthcare.
"if the officers serving as doctors on a military base were so good, they would be making much more money at a real hospital somewhere."
Not my thought, that came from one of my NCO's shortly after I arrived at FT Huachuca.
Of course he also liked to sit around listening to Michael 'Savage' Wiener.
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
since those docs have the same licensing that anybody in the private sector does.
And even the US military send troops to outside specialists when they do not have the facilities or expertise to provide the necessary care for the troops.
It's a blend and it works.
The only argument I have heard that makes some sense in this regard is the experience level of military docs. Few of them remain with the military over the course of their career so you may find less long term experience in some critical specialties.
Hence, the need for outside specialists when the need arises.
Well like I said, he also liked to sit around listening to Michael 'Savage' Weiner.
I personally have no complaints about our health care, except the sickcall line. That is the equivilant to waiting in a long line at the doctors office, except that it is over the phone, and it can only be done in the early, early morning, and it is only for an appointment......within the week. They almost never have available appointments the day of, it's always a couple days later. It's how they fight against malingerers here
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
Been there as well with the USAF. My experience was somewhat better than yours. Rarely had to wait and appointments were only necessary for surgical procedures.
And this was at DMAFB in Tucson. We had all the retirees there with us as well.
Sounds like that NCO may have a case of officer envy.
Our problem is that we have AIT here, thats why we have such a long wait (mostly).
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
a licensed physician reading from a manual while giving you care?
I have had a doc pull up some info on their computer as they examined me. I didn't think it was odd at all. Of course, this was not ER stuff, just basic meds and exam stuff.
Care to expand on the situation you encountered with the doctor reading from a manual while giving you care?
from my experience, i live in the uk, government run health care is no where near as good as private health care, when you take away a key incentive you end up in a kind of rut, government run hospitals etc do not need to worry about keeping the patient happy, because they know they will always come back, the patient has no option, we have thrown billions and billions at the NHS and still we have huge waiting lists, poor facilities, nightmare red tape issues, IE drugs being held back such as herceptin the breast cancer drug, we have big problems with hygiene issues and so on .
how often do you hear people say "I'm going to britain because they have top health care" ? answer: nobody.
people over here speak well of the NHS, even the tories wouldn't dare touch the sacred cow NHS, but that's because most people know no different, they've been born into the NHS system, sure the US system is far from perfect, but i can tell you now, a government run health system has far more problems than a private one .
I think the pro government health care supporters would do well to admit that the system they're arguing for is very flawed, instead of this michael moore-esque bullshit, i hate the guy for how he portrayed our health system, it was just so off the mark it was laughable .
trade places with you,if it can be arranged.
or you want to be. Comparing a single payer system to the US is apples to oranges. Yes, there can be problems with a single payer -- but it can easily be fixed. Privatizing health care makes it virtually impossible to fix as unelected officials of health care companies pose as your representative and work to deny you care.
I have personally overheard my mother's HMOs 'Health Care Advocate" state that she wants to make sure my mother gets the least amount done as possible to save her company money". She mistakenly thought I was another administrator at the desk - if you hold a clipboard and wear a suit you can go anywhere ;-) My case is not an unfamiliar one. We have had women dropped from insurance BECAUSE they got breast cancer and the HMOs know that by the time they will get the courts to force them to take them back the women will be dead.
In the UK the idea is that if you can spend money to kill people, you can spend it to heal people. In the US, the idea is that healing people is a liability for some of the the wealthiest corporate welfare recipients in the world. The less they have to do, the more money they make. This has created a system where we pay several times more per person than any other developed country for health care a get less.
Yes, the US has some of the best services in the world. I however, am not a member of the wealthiest 1%, so it sure is not available to me. I think this goes for the 99% of us.
Can a single payer system be flawed - yes. Is it worse than the sh*t sandwich we have to swallow here - no.
seemed pretty happy. I know that is his slant, but the one couple had a baby and they didn't have a hospital bill.
Whatever your problems are - you still have health care.
1 million Americans will file bankruptcy this year alone because of astronomical hospital bills because they got sick. Some of these people even have what they think is "really good insurance".
18,000 Americans die each year because they do not see a doctor when they need to because they can't afford it.
You have the luxury of bashing a system that at least has the baseline foundation of taking care of the health of its citizens.
Ours just continues to fuck us and leave us in the alley bleeding to death while those who run it keep piling up bigger bank accounts.
So bash away at how bad you have it. I have NOTHING but the wages I earn to pay for all the ills that may come my way and considering the cost of even the most basic care, I am fucked if I get sick.
I believe we can take your model and do it better.
they're going to Britain because they have top health care due to the distance from the US.
Thousands of people would go to Canada if they could. It's simple geography.
I considered Canada for work almost 10 years ago and the health care was a big reason.
so, C&L. where are your calculations on that?
shouldn'T be that difficult. cost of VA healthcare, divided by number of patients, multiplied by number of patients in the general population.
how many times the US GDP would you need?
who needs to eat anyway.
It is not valid to compare the cost of the social medicine system of the military with a prospective social medicine system for civilians. The additional expense of providing world class care to the military does not come from the costs of care giver-to patient delivery, it comes from the logistics that are inherent in that healthcare delivery. Those logistics issues would not be present in a civilian system that delivered the identical quality of care.
For example, imagine establishing a world class shock trauma unit that can handle hundreds of cases simulataneously, including all the support functions like lab, blood bank, intensive care and so on. Then imagine making the entire operation mobile, which introduces another entire support structure relating to transportation (vehicles, maintenance, drivers and erection teams, fuels, military airlift(and it's logistics infrastructure), hospital ships(with their specialized logistic infrastructure)....). Then consider that there are going to be as many of these units as there are combat organizations who need them. More, there are embedded into to every combat unit teams of highly skilled med techs (hospitalmen, corpsmen, who are trained almost to the level of field surgeons and are able to aggressively treat shock trauma on the scene. Also, there is a global infrastructure for medivac'ing large numbers of patients from anywhere in the world to out-of-theater specialized medical centers, which specialize in intensive care, tropical diseases, rehab, you name it. It goes on. It is a vast, many tentacled logistics operation and care infrastructure. Finally, the military medical system also includes NIH, Bethesda, USARAMID and so on that does research into issues peculiar to the military and also delivers helathcare to, for example, the Congress people who will be voting against adequate care for the American People. Imagine that. The military's medical system is global, highly mobile and designed from the ground up to provide rapid response anywhere/anytime. The logistical and infrastructural costs to sustain such a mission eat up the lion's share of money in the military's healthcare budget. None of these costs will be sustained in a civilian social medicine program. None of them.
When it gets down to just patient/care-giver relationships, that part that functions independent of all the above-mentioned logistical and infrastructure costs that derive from unique mission imperatives, the costs will be the same in military and civilian systems, provided that the civilian system is wholly government administered. If, a such social medicine system is farmed out, in any way, to the private sector (for example BCBS), the civilian social medicine will end up costing more than an equivalent military program. A whole lot more.
William the Bloody, is - per his usual, wrong on all counts.
HR-676, Y'all!
they were talking about veterans
.
The deployment health care needs with equipment designed for mobility and field hospitals is much more expansive than the static, on-post facilities that are the equivalent of community hospitals/medical centers.
That is the comparison that needs to be made and you did so quite well. Now if somebody (Hey! Jon Stewart!) would just inject this into the conversation maybe it will gain some credence in the debate.
It's all about Equal Protection. I have always despised the notion that just because someone is in the military (or the police, or firemen), they should be treated better, or differently, than any other American. Many of our ills today can easily be argued as equal protection claims, and a reasonable court should enforce equalizing norms. Uh oh, did I just argue that the US Constitution essentially requires socialism. Yes, I did and I believe it 100%. The present reality in America is unequal protection under the law, just look at every instance of celebrity (i.e. rich) justice. The same goes for health care. People should start arguing it is unconstitutional for America to provide only Veterans, which according to Bill Kristol is great health care, with free health care.
are so intent on destroying the constitution.
I understand that the military, police, firefighters (hope i didn't offend anyone with the use of firemen) signed on for service to the city, state or nation; however, that still does not afford them better rights under the Constitution. I also understand it would be somewhat limiting of liberty to enforce equalizing norms, but that doesn't make it unconstitutional. To the contrary, we, the People, just need to start recognizing that all of us together make this nation and be careful about allowing some to have more than the rest when it comes to basic necessities like food, housing, health care and jobs. Everything else is icing on the cake. That is why the nation needs to seize the wealth and use it for the betterment of our country and not multinational corporations.
It's the difference between "We" and "Me", where "Me" gets wahtever "Me" want, but "We" has to pay the price of it.
Nobody's chosen profession automatically qualifies them for better care of their health. That is nonsense.
By sheer numbers, isn't it more dangerous to drive to a place of employment than to engage in the employment itself for the vast majority of Americans?
Our health needs may vary due to profession, but they certainly do not merit a higher value because of the work we do.
And any variance evens itself over the long haul.
when I said that the US Constitution requires socialism I should have said "equality," which is very often equated with a socialist form of government. I guess it would have been better to avoid labels in the first place, particularly in the sense that the US media uses words, like socialism, to demonize, divide and destroy and hope for making a more perfect union.
..because socialism can be defined as any act(s) that look to the greatest well-being of the greatest number, and by equality, doesn't that also translate as equality of opportunities?
Kristol clearly implies that our servicemen deserve govt-provided healthcare whereas ordinary citizens do not. I assume this applies to our elected officials, also, since they receive govt-provided healthcare at the expense of taxpayers. Grassley recently told a constituent that, if they wanted govt-provided healthcare, they should, "Get a job with the government".
So their logic seems to imply that ordinary citizens have two paths to govt-provided healthcare; 1.) join the military, wherein you will likely have to risk your life to stay healthy, or 2.) pursue a govt job, while Conservatives work eliminat the role of the got in Americans' lives.
Gov Health Care Bad + Support Our Troops = ????
Uh, don't raise our taxes, like river running in the wild
(insert any other Palinism)
"Don't spill your chickens before they've hatched your milk, especially if counting makes you cry."?
is carry a big stick?
I quit.
I hope this attaches to the right comment - otherwise, it will seem quite out of place!
"King of the Jews" was what (according to the New Testament) the Romans had inscribed on the cross - the legend "INRI" whish appears above Christ's head is a Latin acronym meaning "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews"
So, that's where THAT comes from.
At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love.
Knew this would end up in the wrong place... please ignore!!
At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love.
Man, it was so easy for Stewert to get Kristol to admit that it's all about bringing down our Prez and fuck the uninsured people.
I believe had a guy on the show last night that wrote a book recently after researching the VA. I think it's called "The Best Health Care In the World" or something.
He indicated that the VA is spending about 2/3 of what private insurance does per patient and that amount is still dropping.
But ask the vets at Walter Ried about how good their healthcare was.
a few posts back. They stated that the care at WR was farmed out to a corporation - Halliburton I believe they stated.
Also, even if it was fucked up by the normal VA system, a single example like that made it the point of the spear for an argument against full coverage for all doesn't hold water.
was running WR...that makes sense. Halliburton can't run anything worth a damn.
You make a good point actually BlueSam
So good that only the Repugs can screw it up
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 19:29 — Paul C
That line is hilarious!
I'm stealin it!
Walter Reed is run by the military, not the VA. The military certainly does not provide the best mental health treatment to people in the services.
You cannot prove how great the VA is by the treatment I received after getting injured during Desert Storm.
Never in my life have I seen a huuman more deserving of a Gaston County Ass-whompin in my entire life.
People should start arguing it is unconstitutional for America to provide only Veterans, which according to Bill Kristol is great health care, with free health care.
-----------------
There is no such thing as free health care. Doctors do not work for free. If it should be thought of as unconstitutional that the tax payers pay for military health care, then the tax payers should not be paying for health care at all, for anyone, to avoid any constitutional problem. Then everyone is treated equally.
who pays for that best healthcare for our military?
As I was listening to this interview last night, I couldn't believe that Kristol was basically calling for the U.S. to have a caste system. It was shocking to hear him imply that only certain people should get quality healthcare and to hell with the rest of us. Although, sadly, it does seem that many folks in D.C. agree with this.
I'm also sick of hearing how the government's involvement in health care is going to make things worse. How much worse can it be? Right now, it's the insurance companies who are getting rich and who deny our coverage. Maybe with the government stepping in, people can receive the care their doctor recommends. Right now, it's all in the insurance companies' hands, and they want to see money in their palms first. In the insurance companies' opinions, if there is no financial gain for them, then the patient can go suck it and die.
Bottom line: This is all due to the massive amount of greedy people in this country.
In other words, Bill Kristol does not deserve the best health care; he has never been in the military. I wonder if he is getting the lousy health care that he deserves? Somehow these rich asses never seem to think the same rules apply to them that they want to impose on everyone else.
My husband is retired from the military. We have a health care system called Tricare. It is efficient and we can see any doctor we wish. We have a choice of plans, one which requires a small yearly premium, one which has a larger deductible & co-pay and one which is basically a HMO/PPO. We have the standard plan, no premium and the larger deductible/co-pay. I had to have open heart surgery 10 years ago, to replace a faulty valve and the explanation of benefits showed that the hospital charged $190,000 and the surgeon charged $102,000. The negotiated rate paid the hospital $17,000 and the doc $22,000. Our cost was $200.00. My husband is on dialysis. He goes every third day. we pay $0.00 outside our deductible.
Our daughter, on the other hand, makes about $38,000/yr. Her husband is self imployed. Her health insurance for the family is $540 with a $1,000 deductible and a 20% co-pay. Our grandson got very sick at Thanksgiving last year and she took him to the ER. The charge, before she could leave, was $550, since she had not yet paid out the deductible. Prescriptions were $120. Took him to the family doc the next monday for follow up. Ofc visit and additional scrips was $220. Total of $890 out of pocket. Then we got through Christmas and on Jan 2, he was admitted to the hospital and required surgery and more treatment. Guess what? the deductible requirement started all over again on Jan 1. Another $1,000. Total bill allowed was over $18,000 and her part was $3,600. So, for year one, she paid $7370 for health care. And then for year two, if no other medical care was needed for the entire year, she would pay $10,970.
My husband and I get great care when we need it and have excellent doctors providing care. We have never understood why the rest of the citizens cannot have the same type of coverage. A public option is the way to go. But the of course, Kristol wouldn't know the pain of people who don't have his elite kind of coverage.
Thanks,
...free breast augmentation. Yep, Miss California could have just as easily enlisted and gotten free breasts courtesy of the US Army.
given that some righties,like this scumbag Kristol,feel Americans 'don't deserve' the best health care.
Actually it seems like the Romans had that idea. They were around a couple thousand years before Heinlin, if I'm not mistaken.
Mannerisms, sibilant speech, upending phrases, etc. if he's married- i worry for his wife.... (Lot of hidden baggage to be uncovered there i.e. Just fricken cum out!!)
Maybe I haven't educated myself enough on this subject but I don't understand why they are comparing military health care to VA health care. Aren't they two different things? I always thought that the military ran their own health care. The VA is run by the Veteran's Health Administration which is a government agency. Which agency runs the military health care system if they in fact do not run their own?
I know that they both fall under the umbrella of the government but aren't we comparing apples to engine blocks here?
I've posted this question on other sites but I never got a response.
Sorry for the double post.
[FIFY-Sitemonitor]
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