Lindsey Graham, who is a media darling appearing on the Sunday talk shows almost as much as John McCain tried to rewrite history and blame the Democratic Party for the failure of the Bush immigration bill. Apparently, he doesn't remember that Karl Rove's plan to try and capture the Latino vote failed miserably as the xenophobic right wing talk shows, bloggers and Tom Tancredo's went ballistic.
TAPPER: Well, the leader of the Republican charge, other than President Bush, for immigration reform last time was your dear friend Senator John McCain, who, as far as I can tell, is completely AWOL from the debate.
I know he has a tough primary against a more conservative -- arguably more conservative challenger there. But shouldn't -- I mean, where -- what is his commitment? It certainly doesn't look unwavering.
GRAHAM: Well, to me, his commitment is what it has always been. He has done the heavy lifting on immigration. He has been fighting the health care bill that the country dislikes and Republicans can't tolerate. He has fought the stimulus package. And he has worked with the president on (INAUDIBLE).
Here is my advice to the administration, I will release a document with Senator Schumer about my views on how to fix immigration. The campaign is over, you told Senator McCain. President Obama, lead. You write a health care -- immigration reform bill. You do the heavy lifting. You put together a comprehensive immigration reform package. You bring it to the Senate and House and see how many Democrat and Republican supporters you can get.
All you have done is talk about what we should do, now is the time to lead. Tell the people at the rally next weekend that your administration will write a comprehensive immigration reform bill. I will be glad to look at it. If I like, I will sign on. If I oppose it, I'll tell you where I disagree. And see how many votes you can get.
TAPPER: To be fair, Senator Graham, the reason that immigration reform didn't pass last time, even with you, Senator McCain and President Bush pushing for it, was because of the Republican Party. The Republican Party seems in no --
GRAHAM: That's not fair.
TAPPER: Why is that not fair?
GRAHAM: That's not fair at all.
TAPPER: Even Republican members who are part of the coalition voted against it.
GRAHAM: I can show you 10 Democrats in the Senate today who voted against immigration reform: Tester, Baucus, Bayh, Webb --
TAPPER: And how many Republicans voted against it?
GRAHAM: It was a bipartisan --
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: A lot of us voted for it. We got over 60 votes at one time. It fell apart because the bill was attacked from the left and the right.
The Minutemen were on FOX News everyday practically. Graham can thank the Sensenbrenner bill in the HOUSE that said all illegal were felons. I can tell you that broke the camel's back as far as Latinos were concerned in Los Angeles. In 2004, many Latinos voted for bush because he was religious, but after the Sensenbrenner bill the GOP---that cancelled out all religious ties that held Latino support for the GOP.
Digby called it Huckleberry Sunday and writes:
I hope everyone realizes that this is a set-up on immigration reform. Graham is a snake. He is trying to position the Republicans as friends of the Hispanic community, but he will torpedo anything meaningful and then blame it on the Democrats. The GOP has no intention of going up against their tea party bigots, but they'd sure like to demobilize the Hispanic community by undermining their loyalty to the Democrats.
I consider Graham to be one of the most dangerous Republicans in the government. He's a very bad faith player whom the villagers love as a sort of cornpone Jimmy Stewart. I hope the Democrats don't underestimate him.
republican!
ALIENS AMONG US! Run for your lives!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb8iYqIVBzQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOLGrXOtuwQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQBC1H-t9Q0
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I can show you 10 democrats. Well how come we can't get 10 republicans to vote for health care reform? Because you want Obama and America to fail no matter what the cost.
Obviously, you all have conveniently forgotten the pivotal role played by Democrats to squash immigration reform. Republicans are in two camps regarding immigration:
Pro-Business Republicans who WANT Immigration Reform and Nativists who DON'T want it.
The Democrats also have two camps:
Those who WANT Immigration reform for humanitarian reasons and the Union Democrats who DON'T want immigration reform because Mexican immigrants will work for far less than American unionized workers.
Nativist Republicans AND Union Democrats TOGETHER killed immigration reform. Even Bush was trying to get that passed. You people often forget the details that reflect badly on Democrats. Do your research from somewhere other than a liberal media outlet.
As Winston Churchill said, " The best argument against democracy is a 5-minute conversation with the average voter."
Well, YOU proved yourself an idiot.
using RW buzz words gives you no credibility, as if you had any.
bye bye, t.
got things arse backwards, such as, why would pro-business Repugs want reform when those who are illegal now have few rights, are vulnerable to exploitation, must live with shitty pay for their work, and don't have much recourse against economic and human rights abuses against them because it would mean risking deportation?
He's got things screwed up, but sees fit to lecture "you people" anyway.
I've never seen change without a fire
He also neglects to mention the Unionist Democrats who would accept undocumented workers, and then provide them with Union membership, thus in effect negating their worth to management of undercutting other union members.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
on and lecture people with.
I've never seen change without a fire
and so is my brother. He's a blue collar worker, married to a Mexican-American, a lifelong Democrat, and he opposes amnesty. You may think this way, but the ordinary rank-and-file member is concerned about HIS job and being displaced by illegal alien workers isn't in HIS immediate interest--or long-term interest for that matter.
"why would pro-business Repugs want reform when those who are illegal now have few rights..." - Annaleigh
Let me tell you why. First of all, your argument assumes that Pro-business Republicans are evil, scheming people who are looking to exploit workers. That's not true. They are looking for cheap workers and if the bill passed, Pro-Business Republicans would have been able to hire these new "guest-workers" for less than union workers without the threat of legal penalties. You forget that the government is cracking down on people who hire illegals.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote...
Since you have dismissed my argument without any proof, allow me to provide the proof. As you can see, 15 Democrats voted against the measure, helping to kill it. While more Republicans voted no on the bill, if the 15 Democrats had voted yes, Immigration Reform would have passed.
Do us a favor Sam and take your own advice.
And spare us your condescending lectures that are riddled with inaccuracies.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
he speaks the REAL truth when he comments on the health insurance reform legislation the Dems are trying to reconcile. its about what the GOP feels about this legislation thats whats really important to the GOP, not the American people and what might benefit them. the GOP wraps only itself in the flag and leaves everyone else out, meanwhile pretending to care about voters and the downtrodden. they dont and they never have or will. shame on you, Lindsey, but thanks for the truth slip. we knew it already though.
The teabaggers got tied in knots...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Holy shit. Does he not remember how the RW mobilized en mass against immigration reform? The demonstrations? The email campaigns?
Lindsey Graham. Scumbag extraordinaire. But of course the MSM cannot get enough of this lying POS.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
It's you Lindsey!
The truth will set you free but can you handle the truth?
My Senator...I'm so
proud ofdisgusted with him. I agree with Digby. Graham is a duplicitous fuck-stick. A douchenozzle of daunting dimensions.The Kenyan usurper wants us to do all of the heavy lifting on immigration reform because he says he's busy with health care reform. After we do all the work, then he may or may not sign off on it. That's not faaaaaiiiiiirrrrrr. We're too busy trying to block health care reform to worry about immigration reform. Y'all.
who have been to Argentina.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
Evidently some of 'em love Latinas, and the closeted ones love the muchachos, but not enough to legalize em.
I've never seen change without a fire
Hiking up the Argentinian tail.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
*
I've never seen change without a fire
the economy is quite bad and unemployment is still high.
this could also be a risky move considering the midterm elections are a few months away.
Just because someone says they are against illegal immigration doesn't mean they are racist--that's way to easy. Illegal immigration includes many countries, Poland, Eastern Europeans, Middle Easterners, Mexicans and probably many other South American Countries. What if all the illegal immigrants were hardcore conservatives-would you be in favor of amnesty or unlimited immigration then?
immigration, it's how and why some people choose to oppose illegal immigration, or more specifically the immigrants themselves, that leads to accusations of racism.
I've never seen change without a fire
Some people are against illegal immigrants because of race. Others like myself do not care what race they are. I'm against all illegals, no matter race or country of origin.
But the fact is that Hispanics make up well over 50% of illegals in this country, in 1996 Mexicans alone made up an estimated 54%. With Asians and Europeans I think about 15% each.
Here is a Gov report breaking down illegals and quasi-legal by nationality.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/document...
And here is 1996 report listing the top 20 country of origin for illegals.
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics...
but that doesn't call for the race-baiting we see from a lot of people against illegal immigration. The ones who race bait are much louder than the non-race baiters.
It makes it very hard for the Latino community to support and help others who want reform, if those wanting reform treat us like we are the second coming of Satan, and I do mean all of us, natural-born, legal, illegal. None of us like being talked about the way you hear people like Tancredo talk about us. We wind up being forced to spend all our energy trying to defend ourselves as human beings instead being able to help fight for reform.
I'd like to see the sane reform proponents speak out for once and tell the racists to shut up and go away because they aren't helping.
I've never seen change without a fire
consider race-baiting? I'm asking seriously. Myself I do push harder for arrests and deportation of Hispanics because they are the largest group. And the most likely to repeat if they are caught and deported, because it is the easiest for them to do so. And also because they are the largest single group pushing for amnesty. Would you consider that race-baiting?
I have no problem with legal immigrants at all, no matter where they are from. Why would I? I'm descended from legal immigrants.
populace. Tancredo referring to Latino communities in the U.S. as potential third world countries. That's just one example.
Neil Bortz "suggesting" they put a taco truck at the border for those here illegally to buy tacos from as they seal it up, etc.
Fearmongering about sex crimes that would allegedly be committed by Latino men.
Lying about how many people here illegally are part of the prison populace when the false figure leaves no room for all the U.S. citizens in prison to be counted, etc.
I've never seen change without a fire
been in a Latino community that does come close to a third world country, but then again I've also been in mainly white or black communities that were the same.
But looking at it objectively I can understand his point, or at least my take on it from what you posted(I don't think I've read or seen it myself) And that is if you take a community of people from the same place they will likely continue with the same way of living. For example if you take a group of hillbillies and stick them all together in the middle of Beverly hills they are not suddenly going to quit making moonshine and dating their sisters.
The taco truck? Yes it is a stereotype, but how many Mexicans do you know that don't eat tacos? Tortillas are a traditional food, most of the ones I've worked with ate tacos. But then again so do I and tamales and flautas and.....
The sex crimes? I honestly don't know what the percentage of Hispanic men that commit them.
I haven't seen the figures you have so I have no idea. But the ones I've seen put the illegal alien population at about 4.5-6% on the low side(I have seen ones that claim 25% or higher but I don't necessarily believe them). And they make up what about 3% of the total population? Which puts them statistically at about a 1.5 to 2x greater chance of being convicted for a crime at a minimum.
You know, Latino citizens and legal immigrants might not find so much hostility if groups such as LaRaza didn't use the term Latino to include not only citizens and legal immigrants, but also illegal aliens--and if it didn't try to make "Latino" and "illegal alien" synonymous. You'll never know from Janet Murguia of LaRaza or other ethnic identity groups that there are NON Latino illegal aliens, especially WHITE ones such as the Irish and Poles. That makes it so much harder to claim that opposition to illegal immigration is racist.
Christ. the least you could do is use a more humanising term when you post on this board.
me-oww!
They are immigrants that are here illegally. Would you prefer the term criminal immigrants?
I'll admit I'm not PC, in fact I can be very blunt. I think the PC bs that has taken over the country is a joke. Heck I'll even admit that on occasion I find racist and sexist jokes amusing, even if they are aimed at me. Do you know any good Scottish, Finnish or German jokes? Or ones that poke fun at the male gender?
ETA And actually the term illegal immigrants is actually a little more PC than the proper legal term which is illegal aliens.
is just a reason to excuse bigotry. Whether you chose to believe that or not
How did jokes enter the discussion? I didn't mention jokes.
And humanise them, because they are human beings, not 'things.' How about 'illegal immigrants?' Like most thoughtful people do. 'Illegals' is a term that connotes bigotry, and is proudly used by 'non-PC' racists and bigots everywhere. You use it, you put yourself in their company.
me-oww!
notice I did use the term illegal immigrants, then shortened it to illegals when repeating the term. And how is it racist when I said and meant I didn't care what race or where they came from.
And as for being a bigot? Perhaps, but from a strict definition of it I'd say that most of the posters on this site meet the criteria. Per Websters.
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
The evidence is there: You used the term "illegals". It is dehumanizing.
And if you were going to use shorthand, why not go with IIs? Hard to shorten it any more than that.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
I just said that imo that most of the posters here would meet the definition. How many here do you think are obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his/her opinions and prejudices against the Republican party or conservatives?
I said 'bigotry,' vis-à-vis the eruption over 'PC' and the connotation of the use of the term 'illegals.' I said the term 'illegals' was used by racists and bigots. I didn't specify what I thought you were.
The inference of a charge of 'racist' is yours. I certainly wouldn't think that stems from a recognition of that in yourself. Why earlier, you proclaimed you weren't.
me-oww!
You stated racists and bigots, and said I put myself in their company. You didn't specify if you thought I was one or the other, both or neither. So I replied to both.
ETA When you say I proclaimed myself to not be a racist, are you referring to this thread? If so could you show me where? I stated that my opinions regarding illegal aliens was not based on race.
But for the record I will state that I don't think I'm a racist.
means just that, illegal. It means people who are here in violation of the law, which is exactly what they are. We use the terms rapists, murderers, etc., because we define criminals by their crimes. So, why not those who break other laws? Nothing "bigoted" about opposing people who break the law, whose very life here is all about breaking the law, several laws in fact.
There is no excuse for breaking the law and thinking that you get to set what you're called. And just what "race" is "illegal"?
By the way, I'll quit using the terms "illegals" and "illegal aliens" when their supporters quit using terms such as "nativists", "xenophobes", and "bigots" and such for those of us who oppose amnesty. Or doesn't it cut both ways?
Actually as the global climate changes we can expect further illegal immigration, as shores erode, farms fail etc.
Europe already has an influx from Asia and Africa, and Mexico from South America. They don't play around with their southern border.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
although, because of the media spin and partisan politics, some people tend to conflate anti-illegal immigration sentiment with racism and/or anti-immigrant sentiment.
there's nothing wrong with opposing illegal immigration so long as it's justifiable and based on reason.
I think the great majority of regular people are against illegal immigration just because it's WRONG. We raise our kids to do the right thing, George Washington is held up because he wouldn't lie, etc. Why should we be in favor of people that disregard laws that many other people in their own country uphold?
in addition, with the economy nosediving as it is i don't know how we'll be able to provide for ourselves.
all countries have rules and should anyone want to enter they need to respect those rules.
i'd love for this country to continue being a land of immigrants, but for some to get in front of the line without applying for the documents just as every other legal immigrant has done is wrong and i, as well as many others, will likely agree that it's disrespectful.
morning and ask themselves how they can disrespect *you*. They are just trying to survive in any way they know how.
I lived for about a month with an illegal immigrant family when I was a child. They aren't doing it to inconvience you, and their lives are no freaking picnic either. Unless you like getting up at 3 a.m. to go to a shit job that pays very little, of course.
I've never seen change without a fire
illegal aliens and their supporters claim that we should "respect" them? They sure seem to know what respect is when they aren't receiving it. Yet they don't know why WE feel disrespected when they break our laws?!! When they act in ways that are contrary to community standards (crowding into houses, trashing neighborhoods, etc.)?!
And funny thing--I've taught overseas and the idea of "fairness" is pretty universal. Illegal aliens just don't CARE about it, which is why their own countries are such messes. "Convenience" pretty much sums up why they come here illegally--it's "convenient" for them not to follow the law. It's convenient for them to work that "shit job" because it pays better than anything they'd get at home (if they could get a job at home), they don't pay taxes, and they get "free" medical and "free" educations for their kids. Heck, we even pay for the births of their kids! And remember, they also collect welfare on behalf of those U.S.-born kids. 25% of the welfare in Los Angeles County goes to the kids of illegal aliens. Furthermore, I dislike getting up at 5:30 a.m. to go to a job that pays well, but which I paid for years of higher education to get, and out of which I am now paying to support illegal aliens.
Why aren't the anti-immigration vigilantes patrolling the Washington or New York borders with that country?
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
and I oppose amnesty. I'm also disgusted by the emphasis on amnesty for LATINOS/HISPANICS, as if they have some RIGHT to ignore the laws of this country while everyone else is expected to follow them. I've taught overseas and my students have to jump through immigration hoops and pay high foreign student tuition to come here, yet Hispanics are supposed to be able to come here at will and get legal status?!!
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/21016/or...
I've never seen change without a fire
Two bad they can't spel. Must be a connection there somewhere.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
does it seem like the illiterate of this nation have organized tantrums to condemn the English skills of newcomers when their own skills are practically non-existent.
*sigh*
I've never seen change without a fire
Open borders are for corporations, not workers.
Cesar Chavez was against undocumented immigrants. He believed that they drove down wages for documented (migrant) workers. His solution was to organize ALL migrant workers so that every one was documented. But of course corporations were against it, because then they would have been pressured by organized labor to pay living wages and would not be able to truck in undocumented workers for cheap labor.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
who are coming here and say, "Don't come over here without papers," or to build a wall.
We need to clean house so to speak. And by that I mean, we need to rethink NAFTA, we need to rethink the "War on Drugs," we need to rethink an immigration policy that unfairly puts out a welcome mat for some illegal immigrants and demonizes others (the treatment of the Cubans and Irish at this point in time versus how Mexicans and Haitians are treated, for instance), and we need to seriously rethink our government's meddling into the governments of Latin American and the overthrow of popularly elected leaders who were chosen by their countrymen and women to bring change. We need to rethink demonizing illegal immigrants who come here over the border when the 9/11 hijackers came here with legally with visas.
But no, it's too easy for Goliath to blame people who don't know where their next meal or next job will come from.
I've never seen change without a fire
Committing fraud to get a visa is not coming here "legally", anymore than an illegal alien presenting someone else's legal documents makes him "legal". And just how are Irish treated? There are plenty of Irish illegal aliens and we oppose amnesty for them as well. Furthermore, you should note that one country, MEXICO, sends 15-20% of all our LEGAL immigrants because of family reunification and has for the past two decades. If anything, Mexicans are the privileged ones in immigrating here, as are Hispanics in general. Hispanics account for more than 40% of legal immigration. So, no sob stories about "poor Mexicans". (And Haitians don't deserve special rights to immigrate here either.)
...is what will get JD Hayworth elected. The conservative folks here in AZ feel that John McCain wimped out on immigration reform.
The only reform these folks want is to ship all the illegals back to Mexico and build a giant wall, fortified with troops, to keep them out of the U.S.
is losin' it! He used to make.
But now he's just another "TALKING POINTER"
actually helps us prevent people from leaving Canada and coming into this country illegally, unlike Mexico which printed comic books to assist Mexican illegal aliens and which has pushed for the matricula consular to be accepted HERE (to make life easier for illegal aliens) even though it's not generally accepted in Mexico.
The Canadians have already helped us capture at least one terrorist who entered this country illegally across our Northern Border. Mexico, on the other hand, seems to be using its police and military to run interference for drug and people smugglers.
37 republicans voted "no", 12 voted "yes".
sure doesn't look like the republicans were in favor of the bill.
the extremists - minutemen, fox, et al - killed it.
with the current attitude of the republican party - just say no - there is
no way anything resembling a bi-partisan bill will emerge.
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