Right-wing talker Mancow gets waterboarded and says: "It's Absolutely Torture "
By John Amato Friday May 22, 2009 12:00pm
Mancow Muller, the right-wing Chicago talk-show host, thought that waterboarding is just a little fun. A joke. Why the hell would the CIA bother to use it then?
And so it went Friday morning when WLS radio host Erich "Mancow" Muller decided to subject himself to the controversial practice of waterboarding live on his show.
Mancow decided to tackle the divisive issue head on -- actually it was head down, while restrained and reclining.
"I want to find out if it's torture," Mancow told his listeners Friday morning, adding that he hoped his on-air test would help prove that waterboarding did not, in fact, constitute torture.
With a Chicago Fire Department paramedic on hand, Mancow was placed on a 7-foot long table, his legs were elevated, and his feet were tied up.
Turns out the stunt wasn't so funny. Witnesses said Muller thrashed on the table, and even instantly threw the toy cow he was holding as his emergency tool to signify when he wanted the experiment to stop. He only lasted 6 or 7 seconds.
"It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that's no joke,"Mancow said, likening it to a time when he nearly drowned as a child. "It is such an odd feeling to have water poured down your nose with your head back...It was instantaneous...and I don't want to say this: absolutely torture." "I wanted to prove it wasn't torture," Mancow said. "They cut off our heads, we put water on their face...I got voted to do this but I really thought 'I'm going to laugh this off.' " Last year, Vanity Fair writer Christopher Hitchens endured the same experiment -- and came to a similar conclusion. The conservative writer said he found the treatment terrifying, and was haunted by it for months afterward. "Well, then, if waterboarding does not constitute torture, then there is no such thing as torture," Hitchens concluded in the article.
These right wingers actually believe the crap they say. Why would the US prosecute the Japanese back in WWII over their use of it on our people? Why would it take Bush and Cheney to get the OLC to write bogus memos to get around the legalities of torture? I'm against torture, but I can't do anything about stupidity. He couldn't last ten seconds. I say, bring it on and if you're stupid enough to declare that waterboarding is not torture, go for it. I just hope you don't have a heart attack.
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have to try it for themselves because they refuse to believe the history. And they certainly never learn from history. Personal experience is the only thing that reptilian brains can grasp.
He got lucky - they stopped when he said "enough!"
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He put his money where his mouth was, unlike a certain Faux News personality.
I guess hannity has to step up now. I mean that guy was not physically harmed. All hannity has to do is thirty seconds and he will be a folk hero.
He couldn't last 10 seconds.
Now imagine. He was in Russia being waterboarded, with no "Safecow" and that they did it to him 180 times in a month.
What would YOU look like after 180 waterboardings? What would you say to AVOID another waterboarding?
I'll tell you anything *I THINK* you want to know.
"I shot Kennedy!" "I started WW2!" "I went to the moon and had sex with a hamster while there!!"
My god What would you NOT say?
because they have absolutely no empathy for anyone. Can't imagine what anyone else might be feeling.
. . . and the waterboarders/paramedic were his enemies . . . that's real, real torture!
Hear hear! What they go through when they make these experiments is bad enough (if it's enough to tamp down their torture-cheerleading, I certainly don't wish worse on them), but they cannot really experience what it's like to have it done to you in an interrogation situation where the victim has no trust in their handlers and no say in when it starts or stops. Someone should make that clear every time there's a story like this.
Ya, these were his pals, plus he had medics - easy as pie.
this guy was in no authemtic danger and had a "safe cow" for crying out loud - and he still lasted only 6 seconds. Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, Bremer, Wolfowitz, Rice, Liz Cheney, Limbaugh, Hannity, and all the other nutbags should now all follow - without "safe objects" and not performed by friends. They'd still lie and say it was a great time, but we'd know the truth.
Thats a group of doctors that should never be allowed to work again.
Doctor Mengala anyone? Would you trust a torture doctor to do an operation on you, when you know they helped assist in the murder and torture of others?
to STFU about how it ISN'T torture.
Man, was this country highjacked by a bunch of criminal screwups or not.
And anybody who voted for them should be put in jail, too.
cheney is practically to the point of admitting WB is torture, but still insisting it's necessary to
manufacture evidence for war,keep america safe!to get the bastard in a court of law, under oath, and admint he ordered the "code red".
Please, before his statanic heart gives out and he becomes lionized by the rightwing as one of the great politicians of his time who cared deeply about his country.
I do believe that long after he's stopped breathing his heart will continue to beat.
They'll have to go in if he happens to stroke out or something in the future and literally remove the batteries from all the gear he has in his chest to keep his f'ing heart beating.
I do believe he has an automatic pacemaker that kicks in when he has atrial fibrillation and if the pacemaker fails and he needs to be defibrillated he has an automatic defibrillator actually built into his chest.
Also, there is a clinical psychiatric condition where cognitive abilities etc. become diminished after open heart surgery. Anybody wanna bet they'll try to use this for his "defense":
http://psychcentral.com/news/2008/05/22/menta...
Or he could do like Ken Lay and "die" on vacation somewhere, have a doctor friend declare him dead, and secretly flee the country...
cool. how do you cross out stuff like that?
Do you mean "strikethrough"? There is an S icon with a line through it, to the right of the italicize symbol.
See?Let Dick talk all he wants. You couldn't invent a better GOP-wrecker if you tried. He and his sneering, smarmy clone, Daughter-of-Dick, are walking, talking advertisements for incompetent fascism.
Every time he slags a fellow Republican is pure gold for Democrats. He's setting the cause of Republican unity back by years.
Dick seems to have forgotten he's a private citizen now and hasn't had an intelligence briefing in months (at least, not an official one). The longer he keeps up his schtick, the more foolish he will become. Sooner or later, one of the big pundits at Fox or talk radio will turn on him and he will have to back off. Until then, rock on, Dick.
True - but some odd reason - his poll numbers are actually on the rise.
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He's the new Darth Vader. I heard Kristol admit that Vadar was his favorite character. That explain a lot.
They won't keep rising. He's getting a bounce from torture lovers.
Not that these people are 'bad people', they just don't think, and they live in fear. They are more concerned for their own comfort than doing the right thing. They are the weakest of weak, this 30-something percent.
You're too kind. I think that they are bad people.
in the USA.You something like 40 million to 1 you get a LOT better chance of winning the lottery
I don't like Mancow's style much, but I give him credit for putting his cud where his mouth is.
Now when will Mannity take on the waterboard like he said he would? Sean? Are you out there? Sean the sea is calling your name. . .
..the same thing.
Sean, there's a charity waiting for your donation!
Dang, 6 seconds? If Hannity lasted that long Keith could pay for the donation with his walkin' around money.
OMG, could our charity food pantry use a little hand up. Please, sean!
I'm guessing that Keith will bring this up tonight when he mentions that it's been X days since Hannity agreed to be waterboarded; X-1 days since Keith pledged $1000 per second that Hannity lasted; and X-2 days since Hannity chickened out.
Had Keith made a similar bet with this guy, that's $14,000 for charity - $7,000 for the 7 seconds he lasted, and double for admitting that waterboarding is torture.
...They'd fund Keith to offer $100,000 or even $1M per second of waterboarding that Sean Hannity can endure and couldn't punk out of. You talk about ratings! And justice!!! Shit, if I was a dude I'd have a hardon right now just thinking about it.
I don't know about other guys, but torture isn't really hard-on inducing, but I get, and am amused by, your point.
I wonder if anyone's thought of holding a fundraiser to have Right Wing pundits (and any Left-Wingers) who support waterboarding to put their money where their mouths are?
Say... I'm sure there's a pun of some sort in that post! ;)
Keith should've also bet Hannity a specific amount (say $10000) that he (Hannity) would chicken out. Then it could also be x-3 days since Hannity welshed on his bet!
None of this 6 or 7 seconds bullshit. Put drill sargeants hovering over him screaming they want him to say the word "TORTURE", and don't let him up until he says it.
it's like swimming, like a backstroke...kit bond.
waterboarding is to interrogation what rape is to sex.
And wingers ask if there's a problem. sheesh.
Come on, Sean, show us what a man you are!
Hannity's gonna wet his pannities!!
Brilliant.
He lasted all of 3 seconds before he leapt from the table.
The difference here is- they let him stop. This usually goes on for considerably more time when used against the political prisoners at Gitmo.
Imagine going thru this 80+ times.
We all need to challenge torture apologists to go thru this same thing.
Drowning isn't even the greatest danger here- its having a heart attack.
Chaney wouldn't make it off the table alive.
Heart attacks don't kill that beast.
Pure water might, though.
Nice:p
There is a chance the water would short out his mechanical innards as well as the whole vampire vs running water thing.
Heart attacks don't kill that beast.
Pure water might, though.
Only if it's been blessed by a priest.
"Heart attacks don't kill that beast.
Pure water might, though"
That is so fucking funny!!!!!!
same thing."
Yes, we sure should. But they are cowards, so I doubt very many of them would.
After having been stripped naked, hooded, shackled, the dogs put on you, and on the inside of an enemy
prisontorture camp, where you can't understand their language either.Now imagine doing that 83 times.
Waterboarding triggers the brain's immediate drowning panic response and these people trying to convince us that it's not torture obviously have no souls left in their bodies.
And you can bet that when its done by real torturers, they dont let the prisoners move one bit, completely restrained with some form of funnel in the persons mout, so the water gets into the persons lungs and airways.
Thats the reality of medieval style waterboarding, proper drowning, not this fake 3 or 5 second dribbling.
Hannity better watch out, the more conservatives that man up and get tortured just show that Sean is all talk and no balls.
Show us what a tough, macho wingnut you are! *rolling eyes*
We subject ourselves to torture so you should too. You know like when you accidentally get hit by your big brother and while trying to convince you not to go tell mom your brother starts hitting himself like a fool. Yeah that'll work.
...was gonna post the same thing. At least Man Cow manned up to it.
How many knuckle dragging man cow listeners that said to themselves "mancow will show em its not torture" are thoroughly confused right now.
I meant no disrespect to primates. Love the work you guys all do especially in Bedtime for Bonzo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwIOEN6XamA
and
Any Which Way You can http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRj_wLGrRJs Right turn Clyde!
How many people even listen to "Man Boobs"?
Hannity, Hannity, Hannity!
I don't mean to make light of this. I know it's torture, and I don't ever want to try it.
OK dumbshit, you're convinced.
Only 82 times to go. Lay down and STFU.
n/t
You think that might mess with someone's head if guards are telling you it's just the beginning? It's redundant but it must be said. This guy was absolutely sure that the people administering this demonstration were going to stop on his command. This fact greatly reinforces the incredible immorality of this and other techniques, and why they were made illegal a long time ago.
Dick Cheney should be arrested immediately.
Dick Cheney is so clearly a war criminal if there ever was one. But not only that; he's obviously, unabashedly *rooting* for this country to suffer another tragedy. And why? So he can say, "See? I was right, and my political opposition was wrong." Bastard. He needs to be locked up--not only for what he's done but also to keep the rest of us safe from him.
This is what I don't understand (I mean I do, but I don't): the media in this country is having a field day pumping his twisted, lying ass and contortions of fact out to us every day, giving him choice time slots and covering him as though he were actually making news. He's not. He's lying. Only Olbermann has been willing to say this.
The U.S. media is as culpable for the results of what he's doing as he is because they're encouraging him to do it. Since when does a former *vice-president,* for God's sake--not even a president--merit the kind of deference that the media has shown to Cheney on his "Torture to the Masses World Tour"? If Al Gore were doing this--or Walter Mondale, would the nightly news pay any attention at all?
It's harder when you know what's coming, too. I kind of doubt someone like Hannity would even get into a dunk tank.
...he would have screamed like a ten year old girl with a caterpillar in her hair, offered to suck anyone's dick if they'd stop, and would beg to enlist...for the Taliban.
He's a zero talent right wing plagiarist of Howard Stern's act.
We Progressives hate him here in Chicago.
I forgot he was even around. I think I use to listen to him years ago before he got so nutty.
You absolutely have to give him credit for being a man and willing to "try" and back up his words. Now he knows the truth. When will Hannity prove he's a man? Oh Sean....
but let's not forget it's only ONE of a number of barbaric torture techniques that were utilized. Fecal smearing, electric shock, genital cutting, walling and sleep deprivation were also extensively used. They don't have the twisted "romantic" quality that waterboarding has (hey, it's just water!!) and obviously if those pictures are released it would create a real firestorm that these barbaric "enhanced interrogations" were committed against these detainess in our name.
We need a Special Prosecutor appointed to investigate and prosecute.
Is Eric Holder in a secret location? Anyone seen this lynchpin of late? It's all up to him and no one can find the guy.
He was present at Obama's speech yesterday. Front row.
Well he needs to do his job and appoint a special prosecutor.
and a line of tumbrels down the mall, each holding a Bushevik awaiting his/her fate...
just a jail cell will do.
Everybody says so...
Can we hood them, strip them naked and make them give televised apologies first, too? I mean, it's just a bit of fun, you know. Harmless.
PS Don't know if I'd want to see Dick naked, but it's for a good cause. Frightening visual,
Not forgetting extreme heat and cold. crushing and asphyxiation too.
24/7 fear and disorientation: nevereding. Being dragged from your cell, naked, hooded, dogs nipping at your heels, being strapped down to a board, with a sadistic gang of thugs around you, then they cover your face...
Here's the question that should be asked by the moderator of *EVERY* Sunday morning "news-bobblehead" show of every torture apologist (and Cheney fan): Will you submit to being waterboarded to determine whether or not it feels like torture, as it is so declared by the Geneva Conventions? If so, when?
give the man credit. he put his money where his mouth is and told the truth.
Come on, Hannity and Limbaugh-- your turn.
But now the debate isn't so much whether or not waterboarding is torture; I think we've pretty much cleared that up. Cheney and his morally bankrupt cohorts have been trying to spin that it was necessary, remember it saved thousands- if not hundreds of thousands- of lives. Society is going backwards to medieval times.
OK OK so it's torture...but it works! But it was necessary! But it saved lives
They are still wrong on all of those counts. Debate rages on.
If Dick took it would he tell the truth? I don't want false evidence
If you WB him, that's all you will get.
All these folks that go thru this have the same conclusion. Then the wingnuts say what the hell we do it to our soldiers.
Hannity the biggest mouth out there. Let's do it right. Strapped to an elevated board, no toy cow or item to drop and the guy with the water will tell you when you have had enough. Now that is an experiment. This is apples and oranges. Go hardcore! Hannity 30 seconds is all I ask.
Hannity couldn't even walk into the room where the waterboarding would take place. Hannity is a typical right-wing coward who talks big but can never seem to live up to their empty words.
and you gotta hand it to this Mancow guy that he was willing to put it on the line, yeah I'm sure it was a ratings stunt too, but at least he did it! Hannity wouldn't even do it if it ensured him the highest ratings of any show anywhere, because he is nothing but a wussy who just can't cash the checks his mouth writes.
Every politician that insist on referring waterboarding as EIT should go through this once. That would be all Republicans. That way they can find out this is the reason we prosecuted the Japanese afer WWII. BECAUSE IT'S TORTURE!!!!
He
probablydid it as a ratings stunt, but he learned something. One less cheerleader for torutre. And he is on the radio, so maybe he'll spread the word.I don't know anything about this guy, but I have to say that I respect that he put his beliefs where his mouth his and was man enough to admit that it was torture. Now it's just a matter of weather he goes back on his talk show and says "I didn't intend to say it was torture and the only reason it was torture was due to the librals who viewed it!"
The drowning reflex would do him in.
The lies this career asshole has said about Progressives, Obama, the Clintons, Pelosi et al, Mancow is a right wing dick licker. This punk is despised here in Chicago.
Fuck him.
but not its not just mancow, its all of them. yeah sure he "manned up" and got water boarded good for him. that certainly does'nt excuse any of the things that he has said in the past or the lies he will tell come monday.
knows it's voluntary, that he'll be able to get up and go. Plus he receives a handsome salary and he's not waiting for some jumped up kangaroo court to find him guilty of whatever he admitted to to get them to stop it.
Thanks for admitting what the sensible members of this society have known all along, but no special brownie points for your PR stunt, ahole. You miss out on a great deal of the 'full torture effect' by being a volunteer.
Was water boarded in SERE school, back in the day. Your mind might understand that you'll probably live, but as far as your body knows, it's the end. The absolute end. Death. It's torture.
They also did stress positions. One of them they tied hands to ankles and then lifted us up by a pole passed through the point where we were bent over. Let your guts take the full weight of your body. Stress positions will kill if given enough time. Best known stress position is crucifiction. Stress positions are torture, too.
No matter how dangerous somebody is prior to capture, once they are in custody and subdued, they are defenseless. Their prior history is irrelevant to their current state. Never thought I'd see the day that this is what we would become, a nation that self-righteously tortures the defenseless. Never thought I'd see the day that the goons would slither out of the woodwork and promote torture as if it were a patriotic virtue.
The Bush administration changed America from the place we one (choose one: loved, liked, were indifferent toward, tolerated, disliked) into a new place that no one recognizes anymore. OR (maybe)... Osama bin Laden won.
(see italics for Edwin's hint)
But you know what the knee-jerk right wingers will say: "Did KSM care about defenseless people in the Twin Towers? Fuck him, I'm glad he was waterboarded so many times"
I hate to say it, but I think I large amount of Americans agree with Dick Cheney.
having to endure this same procedure 183 times in a far off land surrounded by strangers instead of paramedics.
But I don't like the 'media event' aspect of this demonstration.
Waterboarding is torture, and torture is a horrible crime. This guy didn't really add anything to the discussion, other than prove what lengths he will go to to get ratings. Does anyone with sense still not understand what torture is?
The nutcakes out there aren't going to have their minds changed by this clip. Hell, they want torture. They want to go crazy on every raghead, every swarthy person they run across. And yell, "USA! USA!" while they're at it.
This clip provides nice, easy-to-understand directions on how to waterboard. What do you bet some militia/skinhead retards take the hint and go after some local Mexicans with a jug of water?
ratings grab. Off the backs of countless tortured people.
Not one bit.
He staged the whole thing as a publicity stunt and it backfired on him. He couldn't even pretend that it was O.K., but thanks for the usual concern trolling anyway.
So you've got combat veterens, like Jesse Ventura and John McCain, saying it's torture.
Then you finally had some talking head try it out, and then realize it's torture.
Now all you have left is a bunch of chickenhawks, too scared to try it, and never served, saying it's not. I'm looking at you, Limbaugh, Hannity, Cheney.
or have to apologize for 'how he misspoke about it being torture' and it was really a walk in the park in order to keep it.
The Republicans feed on anyone who doesn't lockstep.
...do these people survive on a day-to-day basis?
"No, sticking my tongue in a light socket isn't so bad!" ZZZZT! "Oh. Maybe it is."
Who is next?
Liz Cheney?
Haaaaannity . . . where are you Hannity? Where're your hiding you lily-livered coward? You're NEXT Hannity . . . .
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and torture is ABSOLUTLY NECESSARY: that is the new meme making the political and media establishment rounds.
they tried to use clever (see, orwellian) terms to describe the torture, like enhanced interrogation, and they tried to deny that we actually do torture.
that was yesterday
wait for it. the new ruling class talking point will be: yes, sometimes we DO have to torture, it protects america, and is absolutely necessary
they are starting to concede we do torture (they know what is in the photos obama is shielding from the public) and they are busy crafting the argument that it is necessary and efficacious.
Enhanced interrogation is what the Nazis called it.
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In the immortal words of Peggy Noonan.
Unless it's a blowjob in a Democratic White House. In which case, walking is not an option. Investigate and impeach, by all means.
I mean, you have to keep your priorities straight, people. Otherwise you just succumb to Godless moral relativism.
That is all
Forty years ago, I would volunteer to be uisgeboarded.
I'd fall asleep these days.
...is this media mavin is going to REALLY man up and admit that perhaps the torture talking points need to be revisited...?
..or, a la drug-addled rush, is he going to completely ignore the broader issues and just keep it to a focus on his personal experience?
I'm not holding my breath for the former.
you know what needs to be done for these morons that volunteer for this water torture john?
they need to tell the “volunteer” there is no opting out of the “test” until they admit that they were responsible for the attack on 9/11 and that cheney was the master mind
see how fast everyone changes their tune when someone like this moron yells it out at the top of his lungs
For any test to work the only requirement is that they must submit to and sign off on being waterboarded for some reasonable minimum of time with no opting out once it starts.
After this period of initial waterboarding, if they so choose they may opt out, or continue being waterboarded as long as they can hold out, and try to set a record.
I suggest a minimum of 30 seconds, to ensure that the one being waterboarded is out of control of the situation for at least that long.
[don't try this at home, or you may suffer cardiovascular distress and injury]
As long as they have a doctor present with a trachiotomy kit there's no real risk.
If they make it beyond the 30 seconds, they can stand on record as evidence that waterboarding is not torture - data point of one.
Perris, brilliant idea! How do we get it to happen??
I know what Liz cheney wants. Liz cheney wants us to think that enforcing the law is now 'taking a step'.
Liz cheeney was on cooper anderson declaring that enforcing torture regulations is all of a sudden a radical move. I say let the status quo stand - prosecute. To move the torture 'bar' would be 'taking the step'.
Where's Hannity?
is a giant douche bag.
They then "tied" his feet with baling twine(lol). Left his arms unrestrained, head unrestrained, on a padded bed, with friends around him. This "display" is shameful, no matter what the outcome. Suppose he had said, "this is nothing, it is even easier than I thought"? Then what? Then there is more ammunition to claim torture is OK.
Mancow is an authority on nothing. He is a vile opportunist.
I want to see Limp-Dick Blimpo, crybaby Beck, Fattity and even Dickhead Cheney volunteer to be waterboarded, but everybody knows that these scared, bedwetting, no balls assholes, run like the scared, filthy rats they are.
because he has an ample supply of mind and body-numbing drugs and wouldn't notice anything. On second thought, maybe that would be a good thing because they'd waterboard for too long and he would actually drown.
let's get olberman to offer hannity a million dollars to go for 45 seconds of waterboarding. i can barely wait to see what he, stewart and colbert do with this one.
and to make it really worthwhile, they can raise even more money by allowing the person who donates the most money to waterboard Hannity...
No way I'd pay a plug nickle to go into that coward's own pocket.
No, the money should go to a progressive cause, not to anything Hannity supports... that way, liberals would be wanting to donate and outbidding each other for the pleasure of seeing that jerk suffer.
i don't care if the money went straight to sarah-pac, let's see hannity get waterboarded.
It simulates drowning, but I've got to wonder on how many occasions did the simulations cease being a simulation.
Secondly, if I were to waterboard someone I had beef with, I wonder if torture would appear anywhere in the wording of the charges against me.
I like Hitchens version, it doesn't simulate drowning, you are being drowned.
by those trained at the seres program
that seargent had no clue what he was doing
of course it is torture
and the people responsible are gonna walk away scott free
i would like to know why anyone should abide by the law
If we get stopped because some cop needs to make his quota on traffic tickets, or get caught with some harmless drug like pot, can we use the argument that until the US prosecutes for more serious crimes, we can't accept the ticket or the arrest?
Good luck with that, eh?
And good luck if they ever call me for jury duty; I'm going to tell them I don't have faith in the justice system because of this and would refuse to give a guilty verdict on anyone. No prosecutor would ever want me on a jury.
Mancow? Shouldn't that be Rush's last name? Rush Mancow. Has a nice ring to it.
you're wrong on the "man" part
Waterboarding doesn't require expensive equipment or particular skilled torturers. It is portable and can be applied anywhere there is water. It hasn't been a preferred method of torture by professionals for centuries for nothing.
Do they still have Mancow pop in from time to time? Wonder which of the "Friends" will be the first to label him weak and unpatriotic for declaring that it's torture?
Did ya also catch how he "didn't want to say" that it was torture? That in itself is a sign of weakness for Republicans...having to admit that you are wrong.
Kudos to him for going through with it. Wonder what ol' Deadeye Dick will say about it?
They will probably just drop him from the call-list until such time as he says something idiotic enough to warrant his return. If torture/not torture was his "pet peeve," then he'll have to get a new one. Maybe K.O. will invite him on Countdown.
And yes, I did catch that he "didn't want to say" it was torture. I've honestly come to believe that it is a matter of belief, like a fundamentalist Christian believes the world is 6000 years old and no fossil in a museum carbond-dated past that is going to convince him. It's too intellectual. I think Mancow had to have reality poured into him in order for him to overcome his "religion."
As someone else in this thread mentioned (it's been noted before), conservatives cannot admit they were wrong. They saw too many John Wayne movies where they were told it was a sign of weakness. If they admit any major tenet of their world view is wrong, then their reality is shaken beyond their capacity to cope.
As for Cheney, since when has he ever proved incapable of ignoring the facts. He will brush it away like a fly zooming around his face. The fly may not go away, the fly may even nag him, but he will assume it no importance.
I have to give credit to Muller for being so honest.
At least Mancow didn't slap himself on the air and say, "I'm being tortured." Rush's definition of torture would be taking his Viagra away next time he's on his way down to the Dominican so some Dominican can go down on him.
C'mon Sean Hannity...you coward.
Where's Hannity...Man-Up you wimp.
do it again. and again. and again. and again. ...
Try doing it while being strapped down...
Try doing it while the people who are torturing you are telling you you're a dead man.
Try doing it while you're getting punched in the side of the head, punched in the stomach.
Try saying you give up, only to have the water continue over and over again, hour after hour, until you lose your mind and can't even say your own name.
This isn't waterboarding... this isn't anything near what true torture is.
that was waterboarding light
it was like one of those tazer stunts that cops do
I mean, give the cops a break. When they're tazered during training, it's not a stunt - it's to give them an idea of what they might have to do to someone else. And they generally don't pretend that their controlled situation is really the same as the "for real" sort.
watch the chris hitchenson vid to see how its really done
the entire body is meant to be strapped down
the towel covers both nose and mouth
the water is poured slowly...allowing towel to get soaked, blocking air passage
in 10 secs, one gets the experience of drowning
they let mancow off lightly
The Hitchens clip still wasn't authentic, in that the people who were doing it to him were completely sympathetic to his needs and desire to quit whenever he wanted to...
And he KNEW for a certainty that he was safe to quit whenever he wanted to. Psychologically speaking, that is such a monumental step down from what real waterboarding is.
To me, that is THE central tenant that makes waterboarding so effectively terrorizing... the thought the maybe, just maybe, you really are going to die... and the person doing it to you really is not anywhere near on your side.
I don't say that what Mancow and Hitchens experienced wasn't a moment of sheer terror, but magnify that exponentially if you have that crucial underlying factor of hatred and lack of mercy from your torturers.
he states clearly that he knew that the individuals waterboarding him, meant him no harm....still he felt like he was dying
but if you watch the two vids, you will see the diff
hitch did it as a result of journalistic curiousity, so that he could truly report and comment on the procedure
mandick did it to prove that it wasnt torture...and failed
his was an attempt at a real bad joke
it aint no joke
i just wanna know when loofa boy, el druggo and the hannity will place themselves in the same situation
i wanna be there
That was the 'sanitized for your protection' version of waterboarding.
While I would say it's more a "watered-down" version as opposed to "sanitized," no, I agree, it is not the same as real torture. However, it is a close enough approximation and it chips away at the "myth" of non-torture. It serves a purpose.
They waterboarded him in a toilet?
Why do I think those who came up with this policy used to be regularly waterboarded in their high school bathroom?
...his idiot listeners what it is
reallylike. I can see the value in that. But I wish he hadn't done this, and let's remember that he did this just to be a fucking wise-ass, because I don't want to see person after person doing this for entertainment value. Not even that galactic asshat Hannity.I am glad that he admitted to what he really went through for those few seconds. NOW he has to put in full context, in the same manner that so many on this board have and that is the fact that he didn't receive a fraction of the duress or terror that a true waterboarding by one's enemies would really do to a person.
Hmm. While I honestly believe Hutchins' "simulated" waterboarding had some journalistic value (and Hutchins himself has some journalistic integrity), you have a valid point. Mancow did seem to do this as a stunt. (I still give him credit for admitting that he was wrong, so my feelings are more mixed.) This is not, nor should it be, entertainment.
In fact, "entertainment" seems to be part of the problem. I'm not sure how to form a Socratic argument about it though. I admit I watched the first season of 24 and part of the second season before tiring of the concept, and I saw it as highly unrealistic but enjoyable (for a time) entertainment, but I was stunned by actual politicians using the show as a real-world example to be taken seriously.
I also wish some people would stop cheerleading for people like Hannity to be waterboarded (for charity, no less). I know Hannity brings it on himself and that he's a hypocritical coward, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds the concept of torturing him (even in simulation) disturbing. It's almost like we're becoming little Dick Cheney's rooting on torture because we find people like Hannity so reprehensible that waterboarding him becomes acceptable.
Am I overthinking this?
No, you're not. Ultimately, calling for Hannity, Cheney, and the rest to go through this is as morally bankrupt as their support for the practice against detainees. People call for them to be tortured not to prove them wrong but for their own pleasure at seeing them suffer. If it is wrong to torture prisoners, then it is also wrong to torture these war criminals, no matter how satisfying the thought. We can not claim any moral superiority to them if we would engage in the same actions against them for our own entertainment, pleasure, and edification. What we really need is for more evidence to come to public light and then trials for war crimes against Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, and others. What we need to be prepared for is civil war should that happen, however. There are enough Conservatives left in this country that following the law and jailing their war crime committing leaders would lead to open warfare in the streets as our country rips itself apart at the seems. I wish I believed that there was no such thing as a no-win situation, but it appears that we are in one. We either invalidate our own legal system and our belief in the law as superior to all men, or we tread down a road that sees this country torn apart from the inside.
One step closer to jailing Cheney.
I want to see anybody on TV when Liz Cheney and her club say enhanced interrogation techniques or waterboarding stop her in her tracks and correct her and say "you mean torture Liz(ard)."
Reminds me of a movie - Gone in 6 Seconds
he was merely inconvenienced.
if he wanted to do this right, he would have been held down and the sergeant would have refused to stop the process.
now, since he did not go the whole nine yards, and made a rash statement that it was torture, i propose that he voluntarily lock himself in a small enclosure while someone releases bugs into the box.
after that, he will have to try having someone paper cut his testicles to determine if that is torture.
Twat. No offense any to women or their genitalia.
Kudos, Man-twat!
15 years ago I called his Chicago morning show just to say "Loathe you. Loathe your show..." after his producers told me to profess my love for him and his show.
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