(h/t Heather)
Conservatives like Rudy Giuliani can change their views in a blink of an eye and act like WATB in the process. Anytime there's some Obama bashing to be done, conservatives happily join in even when they look like fools. Rudy, who was called as a witness in the trial of Moussaoui and applauded the America legal system now says that putting KSM on trial in New York is a really, really bad idea? Why? Well, because Rudy says so.
Here's what Rudy said after he testified in the 2006 trial.
"At the same time, I was in awe of our system," the former mayor continued. "It does demonstrate that we can give people a fair trial, that we are exactly what we say we are. We are a nation of law. . . . I think he's going to be a symbol of American justice."
I guess America doesn't need anymore shining examples of our justice system, right Rudy?
Chris Wallace puts up Giuliani's statements about the other WTC bombing trial which refute him, but Rudy dismissed his own views with nonsense.
Wallace:I want to take you back to what you said after the prosecution of the 1993 World Trade Center bombers. You said this, “I think it shows you put terrorism on one side, you put our legal system on the other, and our legal system comes out ahead.”
And after the 2006 trial of the so-called 20th hijacker, Zacarias Moussaoui, you said, “It shows that we can give people a fair trial, that we are exactly what we say we are. We are a nation of war (sic).” Respectfully, Mayor, you supported civilian trials for terrorists then.
GIULIANI: And if there’s no other alternative, I support civilian trials for terrorists. The reality is there is another alternative here. And this administration has created tribunals. At least five, possibly more, terrorists are going to be tried in those tribunals.
If there was no other choice, again, Chris, I support this. If there was no other choice and they had to be tried in New York, of course they should be tried in New York. But the reality is there is another choice. It is a better choice for the government. This choice of New York is a better choice for the terrorists. Why would you seek to give the terrorists a better choice than you’re giving the -- than you’re giving the public?
His decision to be against the KSM trial is because there were other alternatives? That is idiotic at best. Jack Reed came on the show right after Rudy and denounced Rudy's talking points in their entirety.
REED: Well, as you pointed out, in 2006, Moussaoui, the 20th hijacker, under the Bush administration was tried in a federal court in Alexandria, Virginia. Mayor Giuliani was one who testified in the penalty phase and he, as you indicated, claimed this was a symbol of American justice, as he said in 1993.
But this was not 1993. This was 2006. The alternative existed for a military tribunal then. The Bush administration decided to make the case in federal court. They succeeded. A hundred and ninety or so terrorists have been convicted in federal courts, only a handful -- less than 10 -- in tribunals.
There are 200 individuals serving time in federal facilities now for their terrorist crimes. So what was a statesmanlike decision by the Bush administration can’t be a political decision by this administration.
If a conservative does it, then it's awesome!
Sometimes Chris Wallace is spot on.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I know, right?
Try the war criminals and torturers first!
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
A M E N !!!
You gotta love these politicians that go with the flow , there are lots of them and many lawyers use this tactic too to stay in the game , they have no principles , and the only lawyers that I have met and have some decency are a few San Francisco lawyers that really care what is right.
JulieAnnie spotted at Teabagger's cross-burning:
http://www.sarcasticmyspace.com/graphics/blak...
...as Director of Homeland Security.
Palin level intellect and credibility.
I'm much more concerned with the Military Commissions Obama/Holder will use to try the other detainees.
Every liberal/progressive should stand united in opposition to allowing the executive to create a multi-tiered court system.
The president will be able to decide which prisoner gets a fair trial and which one doesn't.
This will allow the president to decide the outcome in every case: guilt and imprisonment.
The military commissions act was the worst most anti-justice, anti-democratic piece of legislative garbage passed during the Bush administration.
Even if you like Obama you cannot let him create a new justice system that allows the executive to be the king of the courts.
KSM's conviction is all but guaranteed, that's why he's getting a fair trial.
The case against the other detainees is weaker which is why they're getting unfair trials.
Don't let the media distract you from the more important military commissions.
Bush's decisions were statesmanlike because he's a Republican.
Obama's decisions are partisan because he's a Democrat.
Any more questions?
Now, excuse me, I have to go and puke.
Rudy and most supposed "opposition" party members don't give a hoot about the law when it comes to retaking their rightful place in the WH.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
Why does there seem to be a duel standard in our mechanism for implementing justice?
Got laws, got a court... go to trial. It seems simple... what am I missing? Help?
Study the symptoms not the virus...
With Giuliani types, it has nothing to do with justice. It's about image, discrediting the opposition (in this case the POTUS), and validating the actions of the previous administration. Many like Rudy would be prime suspects if there were really any kind of justice being pursued.
Eric Holder is a prosecutorial eunich. He placates us with drug policy changes.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
... in general, as far as Giuliani is concerned.
Though as far as Holder... in my opinion your comment seems disparaging and irreconcilable with this... "The U.S. Justice Department announced they have filed a suit to seize three mosques and a building in New York City that is owned by Iranian interests."
I would not use eunich/eunuch to describe him myself. Thanks for your opinion just as well. :)
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Actually last night while soaking in my tub of Radox, Pears and Pinaud, and worrying about my job, I read a section from Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics concerning justice, and he went into economic theory from there. It was really prescient about today's situation. To him justice was a scale, if too many benefits are on one side, and too much pain on another, was essentially unjust, so he would alleviate those with too much money, and give to those with too little, and share sacrifices for their country more equitably, and restore balance to the scales of justice.
Money for him was not a primary motivation but a way of measuring demand (he was already arguing supply and demand). And without some kind of balance between supply and demand (money), costs and benefits, the "associaton" as he called it ceases to exist. It then becomes the job of the government to restore balance to supply and demand, to encourage justice.
That would seem to be our case too since our money is not only no longer pressed on precious metal, it's not even based on precious metal but on GDP. And the value of money is presumably in Congress's hands since they have the sole power of minting, weights and scales, according to Article I, Section 8.
So the idea that redistribution is bad, was refuted over 2,300 years ago.
It's simple really.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Murkins have Mr. Bubble and a MAD magazine. You're such an elitist! That's why murkins don't take you seriously. Why are you here? You should be living in Europe.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
... how times have change. ;)
Did they still think the earth was flat during that time?
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Thalis from Militos (624-564 BCE),
Anaximadros (585-528 BCE),
Philolaos (6th century BCE)
All seemed to believe the earth was round.
Aristotle (384 BC – 322 BCE).
Whether the information was lost as Greece became more oppressively religious (Socrates poisoned himself by order of the State (399 BCE), or they were only ivory tower egg-heads, and the average Spiro the Plumber believed something different or didn't care at all, I don't know.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I clowned around often in school as a youth, and experimented in and out of class... if ya know what I mean.?
But if they knew the earth was not flat back then... I was of the impression that the folks of Christopher Columbus's day, had warned him that it was. Am I wrong in thinking Columbus was warned he'd sail off the edge of the earth? Thanks
Study the symptoms not the virus...
It's one of those things that the American school system is really bad at.
As far back as the ancient greeks, we knew the Earth was round.
Columbus was, at the time, arguing that the globe was smaller than the most learned men of his time had calculated, and so it would be quicker to get to the Indies by going west. He was of course, completely wrong, and if wasn't for the Americas his crew could have starved out there.
A good (but not complete) list of all the bullsh** that is taught in American schools, is covered by the book "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen (1995)
Do you have any theories on how this stuff gets into our curriculum? I wonder if they're still spouting the same inaccuracy in today's elementary schools? I was told this in the early 70's, or at least I think I was told this...could be the results of one of my experiments? ;) Oddly enough, the other explorer, that allegedly arrived first... his name escapes me. :-/
Thank you for your time, help and reference. ♥
Amended:
Shipping estimate for these items: November 23, 2009 "Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" James W. Loewen; Paperback; $11.52
Study the symptoms not the virus...
That sort of thing didn't work out too well for Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton.
Will anyone propose the reinstatement of dueling?
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
We have. It's called fight night. Murkin style dueling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g45KtHN37bo
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
I wish you guys would provide translation for those of us who don't speak Babble.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Subtitles?
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
Some may care to check out a couple of segments of Book TV when it repeats later tonight. Ralph Nader is good, but Chris Hedges is magnificent.
http://www.booktv.org/Program/10976/2009+Miam...
Repeats at 10 PM ET
For a second I thought this was about a KFC trial.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8l5Fk_xz0w
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
special of this month.
Put food on your family.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
this comes from FOX-News...Poor Julliani!
Right wingers hold Democrats to a different standard. It's quite simple. Everything a Democrat does is wrong, even if it's something previously done by a Republican. Just the fact that a Democrat does it makes it wrong.
If only your man Bernie Kerik was in charge, right Mayor Giuliani?
Oh, wait...
Caaareful there Chris Wallace. For a minute there you were flirting with real journalism.....Mr. Ailes will have you in his office first thing Monday morning.
'We, the People'............rimshot................hahahahahaha!
How many untruths can you find 9iu11iani spew just in part one of this clip? (I didn't watch part 2, at YouTube.) I found tons. Fox, Cavuto, 9iu11iani, on KSM trial in NYC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jS-LJpG3HI&fe...
(don't miss , "Bush kept us safe every day he was president." Um... except for on 9/11 Rudy.)
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Have Rudy 9u11iani on every week. He makes you look brilliant.
"Trust no one, Mr. Mulder." - Well-Manicured Man
For them to argue that if they are to be tried in military courts, they would have to be also protected under the Geneva convention, something they refused. What the fuck is wrong with this people? It's not even a good argument, they are a bunch of morons. I feel like we are arguing with people with an IQ of 10. OMG, even that guy from Sling Blade can make come up with something better than this.
From Meatballs
"Every day you are eating more and more weenies."
"Let's talk dirty to the animals"
Guiliani is using the standard Not In My Back Yard argument for not bringing the trials to New York.
This is not the same as a nuclear power plant or a landfill. This is a trial of suspects in a court system In New York where the 1993 World Trade Center bombers WERE successfully convicted. Guiliani's arguments are specious at the least and idiotic at the most.
Democratic Party progressive, Vietnam veteran and proud Union member for 41 years
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