Gerald Seib: WSJ poll proves the elderly, Republicans and the South thought President Obama was wrong in Gates story
By John Amato Tuesday Aug 04, 2009 10:00am
On the roundtable discussion via ABC's THIS WEEK, the last few minutes were dedicated to the Gates/Crowley Beer Summit story. If you watched most of the news shows on this issue, they told us that that President Obama was the big loser because more people sided with the police officer. However, Gerald Seib from the Wall Street Journal made the most honest statement about the incident and used the WSJ poll to do so. Seib said what the poll really revealed was the people who are predisposed to have racist tendencies voted against President Obama.
Seib: I don't know whether this opened up any new racial rifts or just showed that they're pretty much the same way they've always been. To go back to our poll again, George, if you look at the question we asked about who's more at fault, the professor or the cop. The people who thought the professor was more at fault tended to be older people, not younger people -- they tended to be people from the South, they tended to be more Republicans than Democrats. A lot of the same divides that you would expect to find ten years ago.
Conservatives had hoped that the Gates/Crowley story would open new wounds for Democrats on the race issue, but all it did was tell us that nothing has changed.
The same people who voted against Obama are the same ones who backed the cop. Wow, what a shocker. You can draw your own, unbiased conclusions on that one. It does help to look at the demographic breakdown of a question that has racial overtones, wouldn't you think? Well, it's the media, so that wasn't the case.
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F*ck the WSJ.
and same to the efftards who think in such a backward way... the police officer is correct?! WTF????!!!!
....a stupid polls, I guess. Nice to see you haven't changed, y'all conservative white dinosaur a-holes.
I support Obama, I DO believe that there are racist cops, but I don't think Obama was right in quickly labeling the Cambridge officer's actions as "stupidly". After listening to the transcript, and remember that the initial complaint stated there were TWO men forcing entry into the home, the officer asked Gates if there was anyone else in the house. His answer was "it's none of your business". Wrong answer.
Also, watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSaDdXNmYys
You wanna poll
Here's a poll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYlDbv7MqE8
I was going to show a stripper's pole but figured I'd better not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXvB6UyVkzc
Oh, YSB....how could you? I could never post anything like this or even watch it.
Mini Sirloin Burgers. Thank God for the Lollipop Guild or I wouldn't have the salary to afford such a lunch.
I don't know where that leaves me because from the beginning I thought both men were at fault to some degree and it was a clash of two strong egos. Is it a surprise that the southern republicans went to bat for the cop? No more of a surprise than it would be to see a truck on the highway in the deep south flying a confederate flag.
But the important thing is...now Gates and Crowley seem to be on good terms.
Beer diplomacy...I've been using it for years and didn't even realize it!
It seemed to get me in more trouble. I...I...love you man, y..y..you my best friend.
just out of curiousity: what do you fault gates for?
From what we have been told it seemed that Gates sort of got in the cops face about who he, Gates, was. Cops just don't like that sort of thing, just as most people don't. So one man's ego flared and then the other's did and first thing you know we have a situation.
having done absolutely nothing... so I could care less what the cop likes or does not like.
The cop was wrong, mr. Gates wasn't. People trying to equate resentment from abuse, to the abuser himself are entering the land known as false dichotomy.
The cop was responding to a call he got on his radio. "Detained in his own home?" That is a bullshit claim. The cop was checking to see if the man was who he said he was after the cop got the call. Gates didn't like it but if somebody broke into my house I would like the cop to ask for the robber's ID to see if he lived there. Sorry Tyler. The cop came to do his job and was belligerently yelled at.
Nope, please stop using the cop's job description to shield him from his responsibility.
I fail to see what is "belligerent" about a citizen requesting for the cop's identification esp. when being harassed in their own home (the porch, still counts as his property).
If anything, it seems the cop was annoyed of having to do his job, so I find it incredibly hypocritical to use the same job description to excuse his actions. If you don't find it troubling that a police officer has the discretion to arrest someone whose only "crime" is request his identification as a cop (which by law he is required to provide).
Cops are there to do their damn jobs, not to be worshiped.
I didn't say that the cop should have arrested anybody Tyler.
The cop was there doing his job by asking Gates who he was because the cop had a report that somebody was breaking into the house. I didn't say anything about the cop not giving Gates the cops ID. the cop should have. I'm saying that Gates should not have gotten SO huffy at the cop for doing his job within the first 20 seconds of their first encounter.
"huffy" or not, he still committed no crime period. Ergo, regardless of what the cop was there initially to do, the relevant part is that he detained somebody who had committed no crime.
OK but your first post said that the cops were wrong and Gates was not. I submit that Gates was wrong too but should not have been arrested for it.
You also said Cops are there to do their damn jobs, not to be worshiped. they should not be yelled at for doing it either.
is in a false dichotomy. Being angry for being harassed is not the same as doing the harassing.
The tipping point, from what I have read, came when Dr. Gates requested the policeman to show his identification... which he is actually required to do as part of his job. It seems that the only part of the job, the cop performed was to actually show up. Well, woopie do!
if you read the transcripts, the officer said with all Gates yelling inside the house, he asked Gates to step out onto the porch so he could give him his name and ID numbers, Gates response was "I'll step out on the porch with your Mama." Also, the report came into the police that TWO men were forcing entry into the home, and when the officer asked Gates if there was anyone else in the house, Gates said "It's none of your business". The liablility of a cop who would leave without answering that question is enormous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSaDdXNmYys
A problem with my alarm system, the State police came to my house. They never asked for an ID. They took my word without questions. I'm white and female.
to the cop. That seemed to be the default position for several liberals I heard on the radio. The two mooks from the Stephanie Miller Show seemed to be the biggest proponents of that argument.
Did yer cow have a blowout on the highway?
then I realized the missing k ;-)
Could be woist
It could be cowtippling.
Probably what led to the blowout.
sounds like something our horse lover from teh great state o' South Cackalacka might be knowledgeable about.
Did you see Jon Stewart's bit last night about the great state of South Carolina?
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-...
hope to catch the repeat though.
... steer properly, and does that constitute a mooving violation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSaDdXNmYys
I bet it was killing Malkin not to say anything on this topic.
They were not listening to Malkin any more at that point anyway. Nobody would even look at her.
The same people who voted against Obama are the same ones who backed the cop.
Obama could have backed Luke Skywalker and those same people would have backed Vader.
Oh wait...they did.
Addendum....The WSJ? Of course they are unbiased, look who owns them.
oh...wait again.
I actually think Officer Crowley has behaved reasonably since the original incident, but didn't he also say early on that he did not vote for Obama? I'm sure he is quite the hero for those groups cited in the WSJ poll.
He said he didn't vote for the President the first time he spoke after Obama said it was handled stupidly.
For a little change of pace, today is not only the President's birthday but it's Helen Thomas' as well. The President came out and wished her a happy birthday before planting a birthday kiss on her cheek.
According to the birthers, wasn't yesterday Obama's birthday, because he was born in Kenya....different time zone than in Hawaii....or maybe it's tomorrow....have to check the difference in time zones between Hawaii and Kenya!
Happy birthday, Barack and Helen!
the false birth announcements in the Hawaiian papers.
She did that just to cause trouble 48 years later.
Well logically it was a Republic of Kenya plot. What's that you say? There was no Republic of Kenya at that time? Well if there would have been a Republic of Kenya at that time they would have been plotting by putting birth announcements in the paper.
Is anyone really surpirsed that the old racists and the children of those racists are the racists of today?
Bigots don't fall far from the bigotry!
Nuts don't fall far from the nuts.
thank goodness for that!!!
part of this thread?
and, going out on a limb (and a stereotype), i would assume that a lot of these older, southern, repubs that back the police in this instance are also self-proclaimed 'libertarians' (which means about as much these days as does 'conservative').
*cough* hypocrites *cough*
Yup, the libertarian silence on this episode is deafening.
What if this case had been reversed and everything was the same except a black cop had arrested a white prof. in his own house. I'm guessing the people who didn't vote for Obama would have been singing a different tune.
Good point.
You betcha! They would be screaming police brutality.
I've got a feeling we'll see the same results.
Sorry, site monitor...think I know why my comment might have been deleted....didn't mean in any way, shape, or form to disrespect John. When I saw that tag, I guess I had Beck on my mind when I said what I said.
Wow
You've signed up just eleven minutes ago
And you summed up everything said here on the subject since it happened?
I'm impressed as well. I couldn't even take my "step back" that fast.
...where our new bungtrollio friend here lumps us all together as "everyone", but WE have to take a step back, because Repuggie here is just so darn reasonable.
Yeah, ok.
I like that!
Seems as if there's an abundance of bungtrollio friends here today!
them. I hope you are respectful now that you are in custody
of the site marshall.
I missed the troll too. It's always fun to hear from the reasonable people who reside in "birther land."
To grace us with your wisdom
It wasn't that simple, but thanks for the repug parody.
what else happened while you were there?
i mean, your description wouldn't be a case of taking the cops word for the events, and discounting gates' version, would it? (note: there is an audiotape of the "confrontation")
Just a simple solution to this entire event. Wouldn't you say?
None of us was there.
Supposedly Gates asked the officer for his identity too, and the officer took offense at that, even though he's required to give it upon request.
Having family in the police force there are procedures to follow, and the cop did not in it's entirity.
Like another poster said you're employing another false dichotomy as well as an arguementum ad reductio, as well as argumentum ad absurdum.
I like the vocab being used. It makes me feel so smart.
...would be more better for the cop, and his boosters, who still seems to have some splainin' to do.
Repug taking a side? Perish the thought! This is the voice of reason, come to straighten all the disgusting haters, every single one of us, at this site!
Go ahead, look at all the hateful comments on this thread
I triple dog dare ya!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFu7SjF7Hfg
That is a serious breech of etiquette, Ys! You jumped right past the double-dare, double-dog-dare, AND the triple dare! Bully!
(and all that without looking at your link. Yay, A Christmas Story!)
:)
.
Holy S**t! Now you've done it.
... cops detaining an innocent black man for being uppity is perfectly reasonable. After all, the negro race is too dumb to know what is good for them, so it is the burden of the good white people to look after them... for their own good, you know.
The victim here is the cop, a target of the ingratitude of this angry black feller...
... are probably still believing that this angry black feller is just 4/5 of a person.
... plenty of people here still consider "uppityness" to be a crime, so....
be allowing uppityness from 4/5 person.
started giving them the extra fifth?
Actually it's 3/5 a person in Article I, Sec II, p. III:
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.
Southerners didn't want to be overtaxed, and Northerners didn't want to be under-represented.
citizen he only gets to serve 2.4 years? Or is
Cats r already accounting for the white part to get to the 4/5's?
I happen to have several family members in law enforcement.
My not-so-humble opinion doesn't even touch on race.
Police officers have to be prepared to deal with upset and belligerent people, of which Professor Gates is hardly the worst-case scenario. A simple, "We're sorry for the confusion, glad everyone is all right, good night, Sir," would have sufficed. This is, in fact, what I would expect if I were in the same situation - cooperate, identify yourself, no problems.
So, in the absence of following correct police procedure, what is the motive for Sgt. Crowley to respond as he did? Did he feel particularly threatened by Gates' verbal dressing-down? It really isn't much of a throw to consider 'racial profiling' as a factor here.
But if the poll is flawed, what accounts for the demographics? Are older people more likely to side with the police?
Of course, the moment you dropped in the 'The hate that spews from everyone on this site is disgusting,' - you're something like the third or fourth troll to use that phrase inside of two weeks - you immediately show that you're not here for rational discussion, you're another conservative sockpuppet who came unarmed to an intellectual knife fight.
(Sorry, Site Monitor - I was typing this as the troll was being banned.)
...another conservative sock puppet who came to.......
Beautiful! Today's winner, and it's only 4:32.
Like a fool I am going to tell you what i think.
I don't think Gates should have been arrested but...
The cop went to the house because there was a call that somebody might breaking it. Cop does not know anything about what has happened...
When cop goes to house, the professor verbally attacked the cop. This is what the professor said. The cop was doing his job. Prof. did show ID but with a chip on his shoulder. Cop does not know where man #2 is but should have been aware that there were suppose to be 2 intruders. Who knows if second intruder was in another room having told prof. that he would get shot if prof told the cop about him. That didn't happen of course but again the cop doesn't know. The professor is still giving lip to the cop when the cop is really only doing his job. This is where the cop fucked up. He should have told Gates to calm down and let the cop explain a couple things. Then the cop should have explained EXACTLY what happened.
Cop should have said something like; "Mr. Gates, I had a call that somebody was breaking into your house. I came here to check it out. I don't know you from Adam. In these situations I need to see some ID that said you live here. There is no reason for you to get all angry at me. Now what would have happened if somebody was breaking into your house and I came here and they said that they lived here and I just said OK and left and then they cleaned out your house while you were gone?" And if Gates was still yelling at the cop the cop should have just left but made sure that Gates knew that if there was a call again about somebody breaking in that nobody would come.
At least that is what I feel. It is difficult to know what would have happened if Gates would have handled the situation differently. If the cop would have shown up and asked Gates to come out and even if Gates would not have come out but asked the cop to come inside and just shown the cop his ID to show the cop that he lives there and we just don't know what would have happened after that. When Gates started yelling at the cop is when the cop got pissed off for supposedly just doing his job and it escalated after that. Why did Gates start yelling at the cop? Because he perceived something that to me was not happening.
I know I am going to regret putting my two cents in.
I'll match your two cents because that's pretty much the way I see it too. You can hide over here with me behind this wall if the rotten tomatoes start flying.
You mean hide behind your skirt. ;^)
By the way your story is the way a lot of have to deal with cops. Not just black people. Granted, black people have to deal with it much more often than we do but they don't have a monopoly.
When I was young (back in the 60's and early seventies), my hair was six inches below my shoulders. I also had a beard for a couple of years. The cops DID harass me several times and pulled me over repeatedly.
My crime was driving while hippie. I can only imagine what minorities go through? Once I cut my hair and shaved, the pull-overs stopped!
Coincidence?
LBJ said we lost the south for a generation, and BHO proved we don't need them.
A cop pulled my husband over about two years ago and accused him of running a stop sign. I was in the car and we didn't run the stop sign, there were bushes after we stopped at the sign and we couldn't see around the corner because of the bushes, so he rolled out a little bit to see to the left beyond the bushes. We explained this to the cop and since we were within only feet of the stop sign, the evidence was apparent.
Anyway the cop tried his best to rile my husband. First he asked to see my husband's license. My husband took off his seat belt to get to his wallet. As soon as the belt released, the cop demanded to know why my husband wasn't wearing his seat belt. This sort of foolishness went on for about five minutes, but my husband remained calm and answered all the cops insane picky questions. Finally the cop said he was going to give him a verbal warning this time.
Had my husband gotten out of sorts with the cop there is no doubt in my mind he would have arrested him. He was just itching to do it, and it was obvious.
and revenue mining.
peckers who act all tough behind their badge. Your husband (and you) did a great job not getting pissy with this cop, who in my opinion was asking for it and as you say would have let you have it had you blown a gasket.
I hate that anyone gets treated this way by anyone in "authority"... packing around a badge and gun. Scares the bijeezus outta me. And riles me too!
We were on vacation when this happened and we referred to him as Officer Obie the rest of the time we were there. For some reason he reminded us of the cop in Alice's Restaurant. We were always on the lookout for him the rest of the time we were there, as there were only a few cops on the island.
That cop knew all about the bushes and the way they hide the intersection. It is his little trick. After he pulled the seat belt bullshit, where I live I would have given the cop a piece of my mind. And then I would have written a letter. Of course I don't live where you do.
Edit: and I guess yoiu don't live where this happened. Your point was well made though.
is at fault for anything.
In both cases, the cop in the respective situation was itching to get your husband and Dr. Gates in trouble. Your husband defused the situation by being submissive, Dr. Gates refused. In both cases, it was the cop... not the citizens (your husband or Dr. Gates) who were at fault. Just because the outcomes were different, it does not change that fact.
It is not the duty of a citizen to kiss the police's ass, and failing to do so does not constitute a crime.
arrestable offense.
... in the US of A, by law, cops have to produce identification when requested.
and a violation of a law.
Not all violations of the law are arrestable offenses, but all arrestable offenses have to be due to violations of the law. All arrestable offenses have to be by definition based on the suspect violating the law.
I understand there is an element of policial discretion when determining what constituties an arrestable offense, but that is why we have our legal system to analyze later on if that was the case. Being cranky after a long flight, and requesting a police officer's identification are pretty far from being considered even remotedly arrestable offenses, since neither are breaking any law... if anything the policeman's reaction after having been requested to produce his identification is probably far closer to constitute a violation of the law, that whatever "bad attitude" Dr. Gates may have displayed.
... there are any number of ways to construe 'not kissing the police's ass.'
Gates chose to express his justifiable anger - if anything, by the fact that he's just flown home from China, managed to lock himself out of his house, and is now having to prove that he lives here to a cop who seems to think he's caught a young gangbanger making off with a stereo.
I honestly can't say that playing it calm and cool would have made a difference, but it certainly wouldn't have hurt.
... however, after Dr. Gates produced identification showing that he indeed was a resident at that address... it is the Cop's duty to leave, it is not Dr. Gate's duty to "defuse" the situation.
I understand that is not how "the real world" works, and I am sure as f*ck I would have handled it in a different fashion. But the issue still stands, Dr. Gates did nothing wrong from a legal standpoint, whereas the police did. Failing to be polite may be a character flaw, but that is still not a crime.
but it is an arrestable offense. That is why some of us do not put quotation marks around "the real world."
And there I was thinking that police could only arrest you if you had committed a crime. Maybe Texas has a different set of laws?
some written code. I am referring to behavior that gives a policeman sufficient offense that he cuffs you and tells you to duck when he stuffs you in the squad car for a ride downtown. That is what the real world is about when you deal with some police officers.
Sorry I did not get initially where you were coming from.
But my point is/was that still does not make the actions of the cop any better or even justified.
I guess it is one of those cases, where the fact that the cop did it.. it does not necessarily mean that he should have done it. If anything, he should be counting his lucky stars that he got to have a beer with the president out of it, and not a massive law suit from Dr. Gates.
"But my point is/was that still does not make the actions of the cop any better or even justified." Exactly.
"If anything, he should be counting his lucky stars that he got to have a beer with the president out of it, and not a massive law suit from Dr. Gates." Not exactly. Ninety nine percent of the time the guy who got arrested would have pled nolo to some BS lesser charge and nothing would have happened to the cop.
... but as an educated person, I assume Dr. Gates' first line of action once arriving to the police station was to request his attorney's presence.
Although, I think it was an amazing show of good faith by Mr. Obama to bring both parties to a quick understanding. I still think that this cop should be counting his lucky stars, since to this day there is only one party guilty of any wrong doing, and that ain't Dr. Gates.
Frankly, the fact that he did not go after the police Dept for all they are worth shows incredible restraint from his part, sort of casting quite the doubt over the whole "out of control black guy" BS argument some people are trying to peddle.
Sounds like a potential false arrest lawsuit.
Gates did not do a dam thing wrong as the earlier post said the cop should have said, Oh I see by your ID you are the resident & this is your residence Have a good night Sir.
Thats it. Tyler you are so right now we have to kiss their ass even when they are wrong just so we dont get tazed or arressted & they are public servants? my ass public Bullies
I also think President Obama was wrong beer summitt he was right the first time the cop acted stupidly The cop was way out of line If I was Gates I would sue the piss out of the P.D. & then when I won I would donate the money to the P.D. for Civility classes Classes to remind them they work for us,
but there is no amount of money that will cure stupidity The cop acted stupid.
... with the whole "beer summit" both Mr. Obama and Dr. Gates sort of showed they were the better persons, by far. It was IMHO a lesson in class even though such nuisance must have been lost in the knuckle dragging component of our population.
I honestly think it was a great way of diffusing the situation, although as I said... with everything involving class and education (which I laud Obama for following as part of his MO) there is a clear possibility that it will be lost in the fore mentioned knuckle dragging collective.
Obama was stupider to use that word.
They were at the site?
http://bittenandbound.com/wp-content/uploads/...
Did you swerve to hit them with your car?
John King should use his magic board to identify where the racist trouble makers are generally coming from.
now? Was this episode sponsored by Bud Lite?
The media must have nothing better to do. The "Gates" affair is over. Everyone "hugged and made up" over a couple of beers. It's time to move on. There are more important matters such as a public option for health care for all Americans.
how that hasn't sunken in to the herds brains yet I'll never know but hey the TV says "the recession is over!"
Good Gawd already
We don't want to have to THINK!
We like having our brains polluted by MichaelJacksonTwitterSarahPalinProfessorGatesBeerSummitCarlaBruniinabikiniOlbermannvs.Bill-O ....
tweet tweet!
n/t
into the outlet when they couldn't figure out why it wasn't working.
Wow your a genius man! Dude!
. . .or "your out of gas fill it then the mower will start".
Wow man! You rock dude!
... guess I was asking too much from people. :lol:
are mostly conservatives, and conservatives are ruining this country.
Race is obfuscating the larger issue. The abuse of police power.
These groups that were polled would have backed Gates is he was white and a "good ol' boy" and a cop had walked into his house and arrested him for yelling.
I agree.
Also if the cop was black(or the homeowner white), what would Sean Hannity say in that situation. And would the President invite the cop to the White House? If the races were reversed how many of those groups would have supported the cop? Not many, I suspect.
White is it the WHITE TRAILER TRASH REPUBLICANS fear any thing new I know their murderous CHRISTIAN cult endorses Hatred bigotry and Ignorance and this is suppose to be WHITE CHRISTIAN values. I know what i am talking about because when the WHITE INFERIOR TRAILER TRASH was quaking in their boots that a BLACKMAN was coming to power in San Antonio TX they were having a meeting asking if ITALIANS are really white because when they get in the sun they go Brown Olive and dark Brown. Racism and Ignorance the republican clowns trade mark. Hope all you WHITE INBRED TRAILER TRASH SUCKERS get it in the mouth and ass you INBRED FREAKS.
We are racist who believe that Obama erred? Unbelievable! President Obama's role when speaking as the president does not include taking sides on any legal matter before it is adjudicated. He should have said...'Gates is a friend of mine and I will not comment on an ongoing investigation, next question.'
I am dismayed at the immaturity and lack of wisdom that Obama displayed. The time and resources this absurd event wasted are his fault.
"Everyone Hates The Cops" http://www.uexpress.com/printable/print.html?...
Even Obama.
I am from the south. In my life experience, I was not there and do not know what happened. But I can tell you what should have happened.
When the police office found out that the man was breaking into his own home. He should have said sorry to have bothered you! And can I be of assistance to you. If the man said no thanks I can handle it. He should have said I would be happy to help you if I can. If the man said I can handle it the cop should have said have a nice day and been on his way.
If we blindly back every action that Obama takes, how are we different that the Republican yes-men who would never admit Bush ever made a mistake? The man is human, and as such, is certainly capable of making a mistake. I feel that he DID misspeak when he said the police acted stupidly. If anyone took the time to read the transcripts and reports, it really looks like the officer was doing his job properly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSaDdXNmYys
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