The 10 Republican No's on Health Care
When it comes to the health care reform bill, perfect is the enemy of good. But Republicans are the enemy of everything. And on Sunday, every member of the House GOP will likely vote against the final health care reform bill that will bring coverage to 32 million more Americans, end insurance company abuses involving rescission, pre-existing conditions and lifetime caps on payments, all while slashing the federal budget deficit by $1.3 trillion over the next two decades.
But in saying no in that simple up-or-down vote scheduled for Sunday, Congressional Republicans are choosing to perpetuate the worsening symptoms of an American health care system already in critical condition.
Here, then, are the 10 Republican No's on health care:
- No Hope for the 50 Million Uninsured
- No Improvement for 25 Million More Underinsured
- No Halt to the Rapid Deterioration of Employer-Based Coverage
- No Help for the 1 in 5 Americans Already Postponing Their Medical Care
- No Drop in the 62% of Bankruptcies Due to Medical Bills
- No End to Double-Digit Increases in Business Insurance Premiums
- No Barrier to Family Premiums Doubling in 10 Years
- No Reduction of the Near-Monopoly Status in 94% of Insurance Markets
- No Reversing the Dramatic Decline in Emergency Room Capacity
- No Rescue for the 45,000 Uninsured Americans Needlessly Dying Each Year
- No Chance for Failing Red State Health Care
The data and details behind each follows after the break.
1. No Hope for the 50 Million Uninsured
In 2007, the U.S. Census Bureau placed the number of uninsured people in America at 45.7 million, up from 37 million since the last time Republicans successfully blocked health care reform in 1993. But a February 2009 analysis by the Center for American Progress found that the recession had already added four million more to the rolls of the uninsured, a group which a study by Families USA last March found included 86.7 million Americans over a two-year span. And a July Gallup poll revealed the percentage of American adults without coverage catapulted to 16% from 14.8% since the start of the Bush recession in December 2007. All told, likely another five million people have pushed the ranks of the uninsured over 50 million.
And as the New York Times found last month in "The Cost of Doing Nothing on Health Care," should the Democrats fail to muster the needed votes this weekend, the future is bleaker still:
While estimates vary, the number of people without insurance is expected to increase by more than a million a year, said Ron Pollack, the executive director of Families USA, a Washington consumer advocacy group that favors the Democrats' approach. The Urban Institute, for example, predicts that the number of uninsured individuals will increase from about 49 million today to between 57 million and 66 million by 2019.
2. No Improvement for 25 Million More Underinsured
The crisis doesn't end there. In June 2007, a devastating assessment from the Commonwealth Fund showed fully 25 million more Americans were "underinsured," a staggering 60 percent jump since 2003. As the study showed, the number of "people who have health coverage that does not adequately protect them from high medical expenses" has skyrocketed:
As of 2007, there were an estimated 25 million underinsured adults in the United States, up 60 percent from 2003.
Much of this growth comes from the ranks of the middle class. While low-income people remain vulnerable, middle-income families have been hit hardest. For adults with incomes above 200 percent of the federal poverty level (about $40,000 per year for a family), the underinsured rates nearly tripled since 2003.
All in all, 75 million Americans - 42% of the people in the United States under age 65- have insufficient insurance or simply none at all.
3. No Halt to the Rapid Deterioration of Employer-Based Coverage
Making matters much worse is the rapid deterioration of employer-provided health insurance coverage. A 2007 report from the Economic Policy Institute showed a dramatic decline in employer-provided health care. That drop-off from 64.2% of Americans covered through workplace insurance in 2000 to just 59.7% in 2006 alone added 2.3 million more people to those without coverage. Census data since showed workplace coverage dipped further in 2007, down to an alarming 59.3%. A recent Thomson Reuters survey put the figure for 2009 at a stunning 54.6%. (Data from the U.S. Census revealed that it was only the expansion of government programs including SCHIP and Medicaid which offset the erosion of employer coverage in 2008.)
And recent surveys by National Business Group on Health and the Kaiser Family Foundation found that the situation is quickly worsening. While the NBGH sampling of 507 firms each with over 1,000 employees revealed that 56% will hold workers responsible for a greater share of health care costs next year, the September Kaiser study was grimmer still:
Forty percent of employers surveyed said they are likely to increase the amount their workers pay out of pocket for doctor visits. Almost as many said they are likely to raise annual deductibles and the amount workers pay for prescription drugs.
Nine percent said they plan to tighten eligibility for health benefits; 8 percent said they plan to drop coverage entirely. Forty-one percent of employers said they were "somewhat" or "very" likely to increase the amount employees pay in premiums -- though that would not necessarily mean employees are paying a higher percentage of the premiums.
4. No Help for the 1 in 5 Americans Already Postponing Their Medical Care
While Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell warns of a dystopian future of reform which "denies, delays, or rations health care," de facto rationing is already today's nightmare for millions of Americans.
An April 2009 Thomson Reuters survey of 12,000 people not only found that 20% of Americans have postponed or delayed medical care. That 1 in 5 figure is a staggering jump from 15.9% in 2006. Other jaw-dropping numbers from that report:
In the most recent survey, 21 percent of U.S. adults expected to have difficulty paying for health insurance or healthcare services in the next three months...
More than 54 percent who skipped care said they missed a doctor visit. Eight percent said they delayed or skipped medical imaging of some sort.
As McClatchy reported last fall, a new Consumers Union survey revealed that due to skyrocketing costs and reductions in coverage, Americans are forced to deny themselves needed medical treatment. Among the findings of CU's poll of a 1,002 respondents:
In the new poll 59 percent said that the cost of their health care had increased more than their other expenses over the past two years. Fifty-one percent said they had faced difficult health care choices in the past year. The most common responses were putting off a doctor visit because of cost (28 percent), not being unable to afford medical bills or medication (25 percent), and putting off a medical procedure because of cost (22 percent).
Twenty-eight percent said they had lost or experienced cutbacks in their health care coverage in the past year. The greatest concerns about health care expressed by respondents were a major financial loss or setback from medical cost due to an illness or accident (73 percent), not being able to afford health care in the future (73 percent), necessary care being denied or rationed by health insurance companies (73 percent), and the prospect of rising costs forcing them to choose between health care and other necessities (64 percent).
5. No Drop in the 62% of Bankruptcies Due to Medical Bills
Often, among those "other necessities" is one's home. Given the deterioration of the employer-provided health coverage and the skyrocketing costs of out-of-pocket care, it's no wonder, as a June 2009 study funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation determined, medical bills are involved in over 60% of U.S. personal bankruptcies:
More than 75 percent of these bankrupt families had health insurance but still were overwhelmed by their medical debts, the team at Harvard Law School, Harvard Medical School and Ohio University reported in the American Journal of Medicine.
"Using a conservative definition, 62.1 percent of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92 percent of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5,000, or 10 percent of pretax family income," the researchers wrote. "Most medical debtors were well-educated, owned homes and had middle-class occupations."
6. No End to Double-Digit Increases in Business Insurance Premiums
The failure of health care reform would mean there is no end in sight to the skyrocketing insurance premiums paid by businesses and individual Americans alike.
A report last year from the consulting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers forecast employers will face a 9% increase in health insurance costs in 2010. 42% of those business surveyed will pass at least some the new burden on to their workers. As PWC's Michael Thompson concluded in June:
"If the underlying costs go up by 9%, employees' costs actually go up by double digits," he said, noting that will have a "major, major impact" when many employers also are freezing or cutting pay.
As the Washington Post detailed, some business groups themselves are also ringing the alarm bell. A new report from the Business Roundtable concluded, "If current trends continue, annual health-care costs for employers will rise 166 percent over the next decade -- to $28,530 per employee." Antonio M. Perez, chief executive of Eastman Kodak and a leader of the Business Roundtable described the relentless pressure faced by employers and employees alike:
"Maintaining the status quo is simply not an option. These costs are unsustainable and would put millions of workers at risk."
A March report from Goldman Sachs forecast just how much risk. Coming hot on the heels of annual premium increases as high as 39% from Anthem Blue Cross and others, the Goldman Sachs analysis predicted insurance rates for individuals will jump by up to 50% in some markets.
7. No Barrier to Family Premiums Doubling in 10 Years
The implications of these trends for American families are clear. The exponential increases in the private market combined with the looming collapse of employer-based coverage could lead to a typical family health insurance policy to nearly double in cost.
Pointing to data from the actuaries at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the Center for American Progress warns that per capita medical costs are forecast to rise by 71% over the next decade. That would catapult the cost of the average family's insurance policy from $13,000 a year to over $22,000 by 2019. And as the New York Times reported just weeks ago:
Even those families that enjoy generous insurance now are likely to see the cost of those benefits escalate. The typical price of family coverage now runs about $13,000 a year, but premiums are expected to nearly double, to $24,000, by 2020, according to the Commonwealth Fund. That equals nearly a quarter of the projected median family income in 2020.
8. No Reduction of the Near-Monopoly Status in 94% of Insurance Markets
As Ezra Klein of the Washington Post noted, the Democratic health care bill addresses one of the Republicans' supposed key goals of enabling "insurance companies compete for your business and you can shop around for the best coverage and price."
But as the Commonwealth Fund revealed in a report titled, "Failure to Protect: Why the Individual Insurance Market Is Not a Viable Option for Most U.S. Families," that is a far cry from today's actual private insurance market, one in which Americans are simply priced out:
Over the last three years, nearly three-quarters of people who tried to buy coverage in this market never actually purchased a plan, either because they could not find one that fit their needs or that they could afford, or because they were turned down due to a preexisting condition.
Behind that market failure is the rapid emergence of health insurance monopolies in most areas of the United States. The past 13 years have seen over 400 corporate mergers involving health insurers. As the American Medical Association found, "94 percent of insurance markets in the United States are now highly concentrated, and insurers are thriving in the anti-competitive marketplace, raking in enormous profits and paying out huge CEO salaries." As I noted in 2006:
In most states, the AMA concludes, the idea of choice among competing insurance providers is a myth. The study showed that in each of 43 states, a small group of insurers exerts such market dominance as to merit the Justice Department "highly concentrated" market methodology for assessing potential anti-trust action. In 166 of 294 metropolitan areas surveyed, a single insurer controls over half the preferred provider network and HMO underwriting. In North Dakota, for example, Blue Shield owns 90% of the market. It's no wonder that Jim Rohack, an AMA trustee, concluded, "This problem is widespread across the country, and it needs to be looked at."
9. No Reversing the Dramatic Decline in Emergency Room Capacity
Mitch McConnell, George W. Bush, Tom Delay and a laundry list of other Republican leaders have pledged allegiance to the GOP's emergency room solution to the American health care crisis. As they put it, "no American is denied health care in America" because "you just go to an emergency room."
As it turns out, the disturbing trends above are having a cascading effect on waiting times and treatment at American emergency rooms. While high-profile cases of the deaths of untreated ER patients in Los Angeles and New York put a face on the crisis, a 2006 report by the Institute of Medicine revealed that U.S. emergency rooms can barely cope with the volume of patients in the best of circumstances, let alone in the wake of crises such as a terrorist attack or flu epidemic:
The study cited three contributing problems to the rise in emergency room visits: the aging of the baby boomers, the growing number of uninsured and underinsured patients, and the lack of access to primary care physicians.
The report found that 114 million people, including 30 million children, visited emergency rooms in 2003, compared with 90 million visits a decade ago. In that same period, the number of U.S. hospitals decreased by 703, the number of emergency rooms decreased by 425, and the total number of hospital beds dropped by 198,000, mainly because of the trend toward cheaper outpatient care, according to the report.
In 2008, a Congressional panel looked into the ability of the nation's emergency rooms to handle a terrorist attack on the scale of the 2004 Madrid bombings which killed 177 people and injured more than 2,000. The results were unsettling: "None of the 34 U.S. hospitals surveyed earlier this year had the emergency space needed to handle a similar number of casualties."
10. No Rescue for the 45,000 Uninsured Americans Needlessly Dying Each Year
The death spiral of the American health care system - and the scorched earth tactics of the Republican Party to prevent its reform - has a body count.
Back in September, a study by Harvard Medical School found that almost 45,000 Americans die each year due to lack of health insurance. To translate that into a metric even Tea Baggers can understand, that annual death toll exceeds the number of U.S. military personnel killed during the entire Korean War. For its part, Families USA estimates that as many as 275,000 people will die prematurely over the next 10 years because they do not have insurance.
Even using more conservative models, the Washington Post's Ezra Klein noted in December, the $940 billion Democratic health care plan could save 150,000 American lives over a 10-year span. Again, translated into Tea Bagese, that's more than was lost by the United States armed forces during World War I.
11. No Chance for Failing Red State Health Care
As it turns out, Republican obstructionism goes to 11.
In the ultimate irony of this entire debate, health care is worst precisely those states where Republicans poll best. The unhealthiest residents and worst health care systems can be found in those states (especially southern states) which most reliably back the GOP. And if health care reform passes, it will be blue state taxpayers who will fund the improved health care for their red state brethren.
The diagnosis isn't pretty for Republicans committed to denying the health care their constituents need most of all. A 2009 UnitedHealth Foundation analysis of 22 indicators revealed that nine of the top 10 healthiest states voted for Barack Obama in 2008. Conversely, 9 of the 10 cellar dwellers backed John McCain in 2008; four years earlier, the 15 unhealthiest states voted for George W. Bush for President.
In October, the Commonwealth Fund released its 2009 state scorecard for health care access, quality, outcomes and hospital use. There, too, Mississippi led the Republican south in providing dismal health care. Again, while nine of the top 10 performing states voted for Barack Obama in 2008, four of the bottom five (including Arkansas, Mississippi, Oklahoma and Louisiana) and 14 of the last 20 backed John McCain. (That at least is an improvement from the 2007 data, in which all 10 cellar dwellers had voted for George W. Bush three years earlier.)
This week, Georgia Republican Rep. Paul Broun said of the looming health care vote:
"If ObamaCare passes, that free insurance card that's in people's pockets is gonna be as worthless as a Confederate dollar after the War Between The States -- the Great War of Yankee Aggression."
As the numbers show, Broun's reaction should be, "thank you."
(This piece also appears at Perrspectives.)
1. Shut up and report the name of your Health Insurance provider and proof of payment on your income tax return.
2. Obey #1
3. Don't come crying to us when prices of everything health care go through the roof.
REPUBLICANS: The Party of No Anatomy
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/7752/thepa...
is that the ticket out of this madhouse formerly known as the U.S.
President Obama will now own health care like Dubya owned the wars.
I wouldn't be shocked if Obama isn't waiting for the Health Care assholes to pull that shit.
to his head or he's in on the scam with these bandits.
President Obama failed to fight for the Public Option with the same conviction that he fought to become President, you're correct.
But to say that he's in bed with Republicans and the Health Care Murderers would make them truly strange bedfellows.
will be required to purchase Health Insurance? That's a Mitt invention man. A total cop out.
A handout to the rich.
hillary's proposal
Some stuff you can't make up!
That's just as bad. I hate the Corporate Clinton's almost as much as the republicans.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
put all of his efforts in fighting to kill the public option; big difference. His overriding passion when it came to healthcare 'reform' was keeping his corporate benefactors happy and ensuring that the godawful Baucus bill, which he helped co-author behind the scenes, was enacted into law with nothing progressive added. He intervened to not only kill the public option, but drug-reimportation - ensuring Americans will keep paying astronomical prices for drugs - a national exchange, antitrust legislation re insurers, and legislation enabling states to go the single-payer route.
when the end of the world as we know it (and yea, I feel fine - PBR here, hey it's a recession!) DOESN'T happen when this bill happens, and people ARE better off, how will the republicans spin it?
what will Evet find to cause the sky to fall.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
deal with it, instead of these guys stringing the American people along with their bullshit and fake promises.
right. The republicans are finished when this passes. Over and over we here them saying how this is a "suicide" bill for the dems. If so, then they should just get out of the way. They know that if this passes, they have nothing to campaign on during 2010 (or possibly 2012).
and easy man party. The American Consumer Party.
you and your spiritual brethren have been saying that since time immemorial. Fortunately you're always been wrong.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Whats holding your pension together for example. Some belief it's actually there? That when the IOU's come due everything's going to have a happy ending? Because we have such a productive young workforce working hard to ensure all the seniors will get that entitlement check at retirement on time every time they worked their entire life for?
...my Chicken Little meme from earlier.
I think we should use Peter- of Peter and the Wolf fame- tomorrow. Because you know he's going to be back saying the same old unsubstantiated shit again tomorrow.
BTW, Evet, concerning the Cuyahoga- it burned at least ten times before the 1969, the first time in 1868. So the next time you decide to use that, think it through.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Maybe the Ancient Mariner the following day. He was always prepared to tell you what was wrong for however long it took and also there was nothing you could do about it. Cassandra is completely out. Her prophecies of doom and gloom were always right but nobody ever would believe her.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
The way repugs always spin everything, with lies. Corporately supported lies. On the positive side people will be better off, and that will be the real indicator of success for Dems in November.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
then what you gonna do?
It's going to take more then wishful thinking.
What are you going to do if the repugs don't do well, swallow the corporate meme?
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
Unfortunately I heard the same thing when Bush Sr got booted out by Clinton.
The Republicans are history man!
Right sure they were.
Mainly because, if you recall, Ross Perot stole a lot of votes from G.H.W. Bush.
I mean, I remember the Clinton victory in '92 being a cause for celebration after twelve years, but I was never under any illusions that the GOP was dead.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Jeb Bush and the Supreme Court brought them back.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
NO Mandates. I don't want to pay a penalty just because I breathe. Without a public option or a medicare buy in, mandates to buy a product from a private for profit company are the definition of fascism.
Republicans suck but Democrats have turned this bill into a mandated, choice limiting abomination.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
because it's true. We're being set up for more and bigger abuses by the Insurance Medical System.
Not to forget when the feds and IRS start knocking on your door and demanding to know why your not complying.
I care about policy, not the number of "victories" or "defeats" by the "D"s versus the "R"s. This bill started off okay but has become terrible, awful policy. Anytime a citizen is forced, under penalty of law to buy a private, for profit company's product, we take a step away from being a free society and that's not conspiracy, that's just the way it is.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
you should have mentioned that when they mandated car insurance. It would have saved a lot of trouble.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
While health insurance is being mandated because you are alive and living here. And I did mention that.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
a free society? Just asking. I hate to tell you this but if you actually get a single payer system you will compelled to pay for other people's health care. They are called taxes. How will you stand the loss of freedom this will cause? Seriously this is a transitional phase that you're going to have to deal with I'm afraid. Not to worry. It will collapse.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Dude. I am FOR that! What part are you not getting? I'm not a right wing teabagging, anti tax nut. I hate this bill because it's too far right, not too far left.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
They're labels. I hate it because it isn't fiscally conservative. I think the fiscally conservative is single payer.
My definition of fiscally conservative is frugal.
Of course, at this point it's either this bill or continuation of the status quo. The label for that is "pragmatic".
Trillions of our taxes for the Banks.
Yay!
Lets all be Frugal Together!
For a civilized, single payer health system. I would prefer fewer unpaid for wars of aggression and bank bailouts of course.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
As far as the banks is concerned, it's a hostage situation. The too big to fail banks will kill the economy if we don't pay them off. We've paid them off, but we haven't resolved the hostage situation.
How so? I pay taxes for Everybody Else's Wars, Highways, Street Lights, (crummy) Schools, Politician's huge Paychecks, medical insurance, pension (after they only work for, 3, 6 or so years!)
Why is paying for medical care worse than the above, more freedom threatening?
mostly. There is two things I see mandated to protect me, uninsured and underinsured riders. Other then that, I think everything that insures me is optional.
...you were thinking of it in general terms. Hell, people are still thinking of the Public Option and Single Payer in general terms. Do you support a Public Option that's fully funded by the Federal government, one that's mandated to the states so that they pick up the entire tab, or one that's part Federal, part mandated to the states? Do you support a single payer scheme that's just, basically, health insurance, or do you support a system where the hospitals are owned by, and hospital personnel employed by the government? And, again, which government: State or Federal?
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Or medicare for all would be my choice.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
who favors a public option seems to consider the incredible difficulties actual implementation of such a system will face.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
the incredible difficulties we faced in Canada when we implemented health care came down to this.......Our doctors had nowhere to hide their income from taxes and as a result their incomes rose. Stop the bs. Debunk the army of paid shills and get on with helping the weak amongst you.
The other approach is, if you voluntarily choose to not have health insurance, and you can't pay for care on your own and you come to the hospital, bleeding to death, they'll need to put you outside the door like Dino does with Fred Flintstone at the end of the show. So long as emergency rooms are required to provide emergency care regardless of ability to pay, there is a problem.
It's the sabre-toothed cat that does that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJu8RreAGnM
It's been quite a while since I saw the show.
I've been saying that all along and this bill does NOTHING TO FIX IT. There is nothing preventing the cost of Medical Treatments from continuing to go through roof. A hospital stay could go from the current $1000 a day to $10,000 a day just for a bed because Doctors know best!
Or the bed is some new high tech jiffy thingy with expensive techy medical bells and whistles. Technology is expensive!
-they'll be able to negotiate. I know there probably isn't a provision for that in the current, hugely flawed, bill. But once the people realize they DO have power, things will be semi-corrected. It'll never be perfect, but then, the european models we admire (I do, anyway) have problems.
A pretty big assumption IMO and one not supported by the evidence so far.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
For those who can afford it and screw everybody else? I hope you haven't bred yet...
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
As I see it:
If this bill passes and succeeds in helping people with healthcare, the Repugs are finished. This is the only reason they are gunning for it to fail. It it's passed and fails, the Dems are finished, unless they can prove deliberate Repug sabotage. If it fails to pass, it's a huge blow to the Dems but they can conceivably recover while the RW gloats. This is definitely a make or break time for the US political system.
Oh yeah, fuck you people that need healthcare, you're just pawns to all these politcal a-holes. <-----Snark
Are all Obama voters so well off and affluent that purchasing mandated Health Insurance is like cigarette change? Just let government and insurance companies make all their health care choices for you? Like mommy or daddy? Hows that being in control of your own life and destiny?
because, that's what these people's livelihood is: politics. And they're going to continue to play political with all our lives regardless.
The alternative is to pay the tax. You're not required to buy insurance. The tax may be cheaper.
Taking the same analogy, I'm being penalized to the tune of $8000/$6500 for not buying a home. ($8000 first time home credit, $6500 repeat buyer).
They give tax credits for buying energy efficient products. Why can't the Congress provide tax incentives for health insurance purchasing as being in the public interest?
Is not analogous to paying a tax penalty. No matter how much you would like to pretend that it is.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
if a person fails to pay a tax penalty. Then they turn around and fine you for that with interest and additional penalties on the whole package!
I think you have a point there. So, what I think needs to happen is that everyone is assessed the tax, and those with insurance get credit for the amount of the tax. Then, they're on solid legal grounds.
I'm not so sure about the legalities if they implement it directly as a tax. I have no opinion, because I'm not aware of an analogy to point to.
Obviously.
that people will buy the Gov't mandated insurance, the Insurance Company will Screw Them, and they'll start Hoooowwling about it. Government will have to do something!
Probably why the Insurance Companies are sweating a bit.
Do you REALLY believe they care about that? I'm sorry. I wish I could be so optimistic.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
the Repubs are going to come in and in five minutes their first official act in office will be to overturn the whole thing.
Congress would have to amend this bill in the People's favor, if enough voters demand it.
All because everything has to be BIG in this country! To BIG TO FAIL!!!!!
No: brains
No: morality
No: empathy
No: compassion
No: love for anyone but themselves & immediate tribe
No: common sense
No: knowledge or understanding of Newton's Laws, even gravity.
No: foresight or ability to think ahead.
No: ability to comprehend the Past, or visualize the Future.
No: memory. What They or anyone else does, does not matter, because they don't remember.
they're Lizard Brains. Strictly Stimulus/Response Fear/Agression Hunger/Feeding
The truth hurts.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
Zing! I like it.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
I just don't.get.it. Seems like most people don't have a problem with their taxes going towards filling up pot holes, or having snow plowed, or having police respond to a domestic dispute in their neighbor's house, or for money being spent on yet another big-ass bomb, but for some odd, fucking reason, people just.don't.want. to pay taxes towards someone who needs a medical treatment. Am I missing something here?
price of medical treatments which are way out of line! But this is the way Big Med wants it to be. Otherwise their to big to fail pyramid will crumble.
I have a prescription that the same amount of the same name brand drug costs just under %10 in Canada of what it costs here and Orahma's deal with PHARMA has just set that in stone for all time.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
There pharmaceutical costs would have to go up or pharma would go under up there.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
I take synthroid. If I get that at the pharmacy, I pay brand price, but if I get it mail order, I get the generic price, because synthroid is the generic for the mail order provider.
You've been pretty solidly in the "Don't line the pockets of corporate fat cats at my expense," camp all day, Evet. I suppose that doesn't come in quite as handily when something might be applied to Single Payer or the Public Option.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
and the radio and newspaper telling people that Government funded highways are OK, Federally regulated Airports are Good, Federal Gov paying for mercenaries, FGsS (for god's sake) is Fine And Dandy.
But Government Insurance is SOCIALISM!
What is Socialism? Why, it's Communism! What is Communism? That's Fascism! What is Fascism? I dunno, but Glen Beck & O'Riley say its baa baaa Baaaaad!
I'm a socialist but this bill is about as far from socialism as it's possible to be. The mandates make this bill much closer to fascism than socialism. Unlike Glenn Beck, I know the difference.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
is that the majority of Americans are fucking stupid, and will vote against their own best interest if someone like Glenn Beck tells them to.
This bill is not perfect, but it's a start. It's certainly better than doing nothing, which is exactly what the Retar.....I mean Republicans want.
If I could believe they will actually fix it. Sadly, history does not support that assumption.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
If you're so skeptical that it could be fixed, how did you ever think:
If you think that history doesn't support the fact that government can change something positively, then you should have never thought that a bill to effect large-scale, fundamental change positively was ever possible.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
From the right. Do you even READ my comments before you react? I hate this bill because it is totally NOT socialist, single payer, nor do I believe it will ever be "fixed" to approach that ideal. FOR PROFIT medicine is killing people! Every minute of every hour of every day. This bill codifies for profit medicine. Codifies it and sets it in stone.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
It's obvious that you think this bill should be better. I think that there have probably been a lot of bills that started off as great theories, but that got watered down with conciliatory amendments to the point where the staunch supporters of the theoretical couldn't support what happened after the theory was subjected to the sausage-making process.
Therein lies the problem- you've got to expect that the theoretical becomes sausage by the time it passes through the legislative process any time that process involves elected representatives.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Please believe that I am neither stupid, nor an ideologue. I don't believe either about you. In my opinion however, this bill has come to more closely resemble sausage after it's been digested. It's a piece of crap. You can deny it and you can hope they make it better but there is no guarantee and history just doesn't support that theory. I'm sorry. I don't think we disagree on substance, just on principle.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
You are correct!
Obama is a DLC republican-lite all the way. I have absolutely no confidence in him to do anything for the people, without checking with Rahm's list of corporate bosses first.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
There's two things that need to be done, universal coverage, and cost control. This bill will work on the universal coverage aspect. I think for economic reasons, we'll have no choice but to address the cost side sooner or later, since the inflation in health care greatly exceeds the growth in the economy.
all that would mean continued runaway profits for vampire CEO's and stockholders. And that's the only thing that's important.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Sadly true. I'm not for starting over and though we can't go back in time, I would be in favor of making this better now. They aren't going to "fix" this later. Any more than teabaggers are going to stop being narrow minded, bigoted assholes.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
I think the Dems are being politically stupid in not including the public option, since polls indicate that is what people want. I think they would have smooth sailing in the fall elections with a public option in place, provided that such public option wasn't hamstrung.
Not the kabuki theater of Democrats vs Republicans. They are both two sides of the same coin and both sides of a worthless coin are worthless.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
But those huge bribes were just so tempting; and what's a corrupt, morally bankrupt congresscritter to do?
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
are not necessarily addressed by this bill, it is pointed out what the problems are, but not how the bill will fix it.
the most glaring is medical bankruptcies, i heard 75% of bankruptcies were due to medical bills, and that 60% per cent of these people had insurance. the copays on a major illness drain peoples finances to the point that they miss house payments and wind up homeless, how is this addressed in the health bill? is there a hard cap on what people will have to pay?
I believe the maximum is the maximum that can be sheltered in a HRA.
we talk a lot about theory, but nowhere have i heard the nuts and bolts, like maximum lifetime out-of-pocket expense to the consumer, i have heard no lifetime caps for insurco, but that doesn't help working joe/jane paying 20% of $500,000.00, that just takes their house.
http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/employers-...
I don't think the amount can exceed the amount in USC Title 26, § 223(c)(2)(A)(ii)
in the meantime is that out of pocket for premiums , or when you get sick and actually pay medical bills? premiums are one thing, hospital bills are another.
I believe that's the out-of-pocket for co pays, deductibles, coinsurance. I don't know of anything that will control the costs of premiums, although the premium is subsidized if income is up to 300% of the poverty level. (I think)
Definitely a s#it sandwich, but so is the status quo. It's my opinion that the turd in the status quo sandwich is larger.
i tried to load the health bill text to look at page 1301, and my computer seized. looking at all the posts, i think they were talking about premiums,copays, deductibles only, and where subsisidies started for paying those premiums. i stil think people with insurance can go broke when the big bills hit, paying the 10 or 20 percent of large hospital bills is what does it, single payer solves that, but dead issue.
$5,000 for self, $10,000 for family is the way I interpret it. This will get indexed for inflation.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/26/usc_sec_...
ii) the sum of the annual deductible and the other annual out-of-pocket expenses required to be paid under the plan (other than for premiums) for covered benefits does not exceed—
(I) $5,000 for self-only coverage, and
(II) twice the dollar amount in subclause (I) for family coverage.
is about health savings acounts, don't see what it has to do with the reform bill. yes, more people will have insurance because they will be forced to buy it. but that is not my question, understand, i don't have much to lose because i don't own a home or anything much, i just have never heard anyboby address how this will curb bankruptcies.
too busy yelling at each other, plus the lead post did just list the problems, but didn't say, here, this right here is what addresses the problem. stil going to look for this answer, don't think we got it.
The HSA's are referenced in the Senate's version of the health bill as the out of pocket maximum. In the Senate bill, USC Title 26, § 223(c)(2)(A)(ii) defines the out of pocket maximum.
"(c) REQUIREMENTS RELATING TO COST-SHARING.—
(1) ANNUAL LIMITATION ON COST-SHARING.—
(A) 2014.—The cost-sharing incurred under a health plan with respect to self-only coverage or coverage other than self-only coverage for a plan year beginning in 2014 shall not exceed the
dollar amounts in effect under section 223(c)(2)(A)(ii) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 for self-only and family coverage, respectively, for taxable years beginning in 2014.
(B) 2015 AND LATER.—In the case of any plan year beginning in a calendar year after 2014, the limitation under this paragraph
shall—
(i) in the case of self-only coverage, be equal to the dollar amount under subparagraph (A) for self-only coverage for plan
years beginning in 2014, increased by an amount equal to the product of that amount and the premium adjustment percentage under paragraph (4) for the calendar year;
and
(ii) in the case of other coverage, twice the amount in effect under clause (i). If the amount of any increase under clause (i) is not a multiple of $50, such increase shall be rounded to the next lowest multiple of $50."
---
A cut and paste from the Senate version of health reform pdf file.
goes way back to shakespeare, julius caesar i believe.
here is a link, says it does establish max of pocket, would still wipe me out.
http://www.aolnews.com/healthcare/article/opi...
"The maximum yearly out-of-pocket limit for a family will be $11,900 on top of premiums."
The one thing here that is not taken into consideration is, if one becomes seriously ill, then their earnings will go down. Since this legislation addresses earnings and not assets, with lower earnings, subsidizes for not exceeding certain percentages of the poverty level would kick in.
But, it would be best to have $11,000 set aside. Remember, in the event of a disability that qualifies one for Social Security Disability, the waiting period for Medicare is 2 years.
This is the kind of stuff an adult should have clearly thought out.
when i win the lottery, not happening, i am just a working guy, with three kids, no i am not allowed to get sick, if i do, then i will be paying bills until i die; but then, i will be doing that anyway, just like the old man.
... depending on the size of the family.
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/09poverty.shtml
Remember, there is something in health reform up to 400% of the level.
but the kids are growing up, they need a car, i want them to go to college, like i never did; looks like if society survives, college will be needed just to not be poor. i just have to last long enough to get them grown up, then my work is done. old work horses don't know what to do if you put them out to pasture anyway.....
all these details are harder for me than the big picture, i can see that the u.s. had better start producing more value-added goods because of our balance of payments, i can see that derivatives don't create real wealth, it is getting through one day at a time for me, i do have some savings, i hear your advice, and take it in the spirit it was given. thanks.
i am definitely not above 400% of that level, see, i told you it was the details.
here is a scare story, says beware the loophole, i can't make sense of what they are saying.
http://healthcare.change.org/blog/view/beware...
What they're saying is that the costs of out of network providers that exceed the costs of in network providers aren't used in calculating the maximum out of pocket.
It means that you better have an adequate supply of in network providers.
Remember, I only endorse the reform as the lesser of the two evils, the other being the status quo.
about that adult stuff, but then i have never been very high functioning. but we did find the answer about out of pocket.
what the hell, primitive hunter gatherers didn't have it this easy , although some research lately has been saying they may not have had it that bad; the wonders of living in modern society.
I had a father who paid health premiums for decades, and then became very sick. He sent the check to the insurance company, and they wouldn't cash it. He sent more checks certified, they still wouldn't cash it. He hired the sheriff to serve the premium check. At the point he hired the sheriff, the payment was not yet overdue.
He was a businessman, and understood that the matter was strictly business. But the lesson was well learned. In the case of health insurance, what needs to be done needs to be figured out well ahead of a crisis.
My father knew that if he was dislodged from health insurance, he would never get insurance again, and would be wiped out. The insurance company knew the exact same thing, and finally figured out we meant business.
--Edit
The situation my father was in was that he had small cell lung cancer, also called oatmeal lung cancer. This is much more serious than usual lung cancer. My father's mistake was that he survived, the only survivor among the 19 or so in his ward. He looked comparable to those who walked out of Auschwitz alive. He was a mess. Some of those Auschwitz people who survived probably looked better.
So, to reiterate, an adult should figure out, well ahead of the crises, what needs to be done. When you're sick, you need to execute the plan, not figure out the plan.
Trust me, I have this lesson nailed down.
It's just not on the table now. Just because you throw in the towel in one fight doesn't mean you have to retire. Circumstances will change in the future. They always do.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Health reform is getting universal coverage and cost reform. We're not going to get it all in one fell swoop. We can advance pretty far on the universal coverage aspect now, and we should do so. Since medical care as a whole is unaffordable the cost side will have to be addressed. Better to have it addressed while people have a right to health coverage.
Universal coverage is the half loaf. I think we should take it.
i have said so on these posts, once it is on the table, then people will see costs have to be addresed. my fear is that people will say, "well we tried reform, but it didn't work", the one guy at work i can have an intelligent conversation with, i said that exact thing to him; he laughed at me, pretty cynical, i have been around long enough to know we will get what we get. i am pretty cynical too.
have to do with rising premiums, in this posting. premiums are going sky-high, along with deductibles, once again once everyone is mandated to buy insurance, does the bill definitely state what premiums will be? is there a hard and fast rule? or will whatever regulatory scheme is set up be only advisory in nature?
a bill did quietly pass the house, as noted in kucinich/nader debate last night, that will remove the monopoly exemption insurco enjoys, if repeal of anti-trust exemption bill needed to be passed, why? is it not included in the health bill? plus, what is to insure anti-trust rollback will pass the senate?
Why? I don't know. But, per the WaPo:
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
that is hardly reassuring. i read the lead post, and saw some holes in it. especially about medical bankruptcies, i watch frontline, now, bill moyers, and the one thing i have learned is that a lot of people are going broke who have insurance; this means losing their house they have paid on for years. how does this bill address this? i don't believe it does, hence the need for single payer. some supporters of this bill are going to be surprised when mom and/or dad lose their house when they get sick.
The entire health care deliberations have been bad theater from the beginning, with each side and each individual posturing to save face with both health insurance lobbyists and the american people.
E.J. Dionne discusses some of these dynamics in Why Democrats Are Fighting for a Republican Health Plan
(http://www.truthout.org/ej-dionne-why-democra...). The Republicans might like the plan but can't appear to be voting for it because of the expectations of their constituencies. However, they've managed to swing the thing so far to the right that it's hardly reform in any real sense.
All the posturing, fussing, fuming, anger and finger pointing makes for good TV, but in secret these people play off each other like the actors they are.
They are doing this because Obankster IS a republican.
Just like the repukes, obankster knows half of the American people are blithering idiots!
Obankster and the insurance sharks are hedging their bets that the other half is so desperate and vulnerable, that they will just take whatever crumbs the great Obankster deems to throw to them.
I feel like we are drowning in the Ocean, and after hours of discussion, the democrats have finally decided it's okay to throw us a life preserver, but they still are not going to pull us onto the ship.
Thanks for next to nothing Obankster.
If I were a psychopath, I would join the republican party, and get in on the gravy train taking the Teabircher morons to the cleaners.
After tomorrows vote these shell shocked Colwns of the beltway are History. not bonehead boner, with all the blow jobs, nor mitchell, or the Racist White Supremacist stevens and the rest of the WHhite Trailer Trash crowd can say anything any more because like the teabag Hate and Fear Mongers who are 3 cards short of a full deck these SCUM BAG, Anti American TRAITORS are HISTORY, goodbye and I sure as hell hope you have NO good luck.
I notice the Gutless Spineless TRAITOR boner has never reissued his threat of putting a gun to his head and blowing out his Brains I still volunteer to stand in chambers and pull the trigger, but like the rest of his Spineless Gutless party the MORON sick CLOWN is a COWARD to follow through.
for the last almost 9 years I have found myself wishing I could turn back the hands of time. Back to the days when you could challenge someone to a duel. With all the misery that GOP asshole have caused I would dedicate the remainder of my life to challenging these republican traitors to duel. I know they are cowards and would just run and hide, but I really don't care what happens to these scum, just so they are gone, never to be any part of government again.
republicanism/conservatism is a mental illness! They have killed the economy and god only knows how many people. God damn the GOP!
down here in the hood, they just don't call it a duel.
...are some of the goofiest looking idiots I can think of. Jesus....they are one dumb ass looking party of freaks.
republican!
I understand the teaparty people being mad a government. The government has done plenty to be mad at them for. This insurance bill is just one more reason. What I don't get is that these fools don't see that it was the republicans that screwed everything up! If the republicans had been working to make things better for everyone, not just the rich, we would not be where we are right now. You can't fix stupid and the GOP is about as stupid as anything we have ever seen. I am so ashamed of 40 million Americans that I cannot express the depth of the shame I feel for those who cannot feel the shame for themselves.
These people do not have the morals or the intelligence to make sound rational decisions and should not be allowed to participate in government. Every thing they do is wrong!
republicanism/conservatism is a mental illness. They have killed the economy and god only know how many people. Please god damn the GOP!
These people are racists and want Obama to fail at any cost. Being a Republican means that you are entitled to wealth and slaves. That is why they are destroying the middle class so they can create a lot of slaves.
So my previous comment gets deleted because it runs contrary to your way of thinking? That's your "rule". Okay, that's your right. But it's just like a liberal. Name call all you want, but when an intelligent idea is presented that you don't like, it's silenced or discredited. Pretty sad.
( No. We appreciate all perspectives. What we won't allow is someone coming in and starting off with "You People". You have to be smarter than that. You're welcome to try again. SiteMonitor.)
Haaaaaaaaa.
Geeeezzzussssss. What a WATB!
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Sorry about the you people comment. It wasn't meant to be an insult, just a declaration towards a group. I really don't get how it got my post deleted. Is it a PC (politically correct) thing? Because I'm not very good at that. If there are really folks here that are that thin skinned over an innocent comment, I don't think they could handle the rest of what I have to offer. I pull no punches.
(You're welcome to try. Just be respectful. You'd be surprised at the things we've seen. "You People" has proven it's self to be a flamewar starter. Welcome to the site. SiteMonitor)
RethugliKKKants !!
New best descriptive symbol of GOP:
Dinosaur in reins & bit, with Jeebus in saddle on its back !!
[ Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. I'll be here all week. Please don't forget to tip your waiting staff ... ]
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
where can i apply for a job as health/insurance cop. hey!!!! what are you
eating over there? get that out of your mouth!! you can't smoke that! who do think you are? i'm reporting you to the health inspector. we'll
need a new blood/urine sample from you!
These men just, do not look well. Beohmer (I may not spell their names right) is too brown. I'd say he's getting too much sun, but look at the palm of his hand. It's brown, too. Is he black? And McConnell, he looks like a old turkey, ready to have his head chopped off, with that flaccid shit under his chin. Why doesn't he go to a plastic surgeon and get something done about that? I'm sure he could afford it. And that third guy, the Repub. from Indiana, he just doesn't look right, either. He looks like his flesh is sort of stretched over his skull, or something. Maybe he's got a magic ring that's extended his normal life span. When he dies he'll probably turn into dust. I don't know. These Republicans just don't look right. Anyone can see it. Do you agree?
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