Shorter Mitch McConnell: Americans "Don't Go Without Health Care" But Public Option May Kill You
By Jon Perr Saturday Oct 31, 2009 12:00pm
Back in September, a study by Harvard Medical School found that over 44,000 Americans die each year due to lack of health insurance. Now, in a complete reversal of both logic and the truth, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) announced that it is the availability of a public insurance option which could prove fatal. Of course, McConnell's announcement that the public option "may cost you your life" should come as no surprise. After all, in July he echoed George W. Bush and Tom Delay in declaring that thanks to the emergency room, Americans "don't go without health care."
Mitch McConnell's latest fear-mongering came during an appearance on Dennis Miller's radio show. Blasting the "opt-out" version of the public option in the Senate bill, the Senator from the state ranked 45th in health care performance insisted access to coverage could be deadly:
MCCONNELL: Well, it doesn't make any difference frankly whether you opt-in or you opt-out, it's still a government plan. You know, Medicaid, the program for the poor now, states can opt-out of that, but none of them have. I think if you have any kind of government insurance program, you're going to be stuck with it and it will lead us in the direction of the European style, you know, sort of British-style, single payer, government run system. And those systems are known for delays, denial of care and, you know, if your particular malady doesn't fit the government regulation, you don't get the medication.
MILLER: Right.
MCCONNELL: And it may cost you your life. I mean, we don't want to go down that path.
While he has generally left the myth-making about "death panels" and "pulling the plug on grandma" to Sarah Palin, Chuck Grassley and other tall tale tellers in the GOP, Senator McConnell has otherwise been fabricator-in-chief when it comes to Republican talking points on health care.
For months, McConnell has been peddling health care horror stories from Canada and the UK, parading supposed victims of those "socialist" systems. As it turned out, when not deceiving the American people outright about his poster children, McConnell was certain to withhold inconvenient truths which undermined his stereotypes.
Throughout June, the Kentuckian faithfully parroted Republican spinmeister Frank Luntz' prepackaged sound bite that reform "could lead to the government rationing care, making people stand in line and denying treatment like they do in other countries with national healthcare." For example:
"Americans don't want their health care denied or delayed. But once government health care is the only option, bureaucratic hassles, endless hours stuck on hold waiting for a government service rep, restrictions on care, and rationing are sure to follow." (June 3, 2009)
"All of us want reform, but not reform that denies, delays, or rations health care." (June 10, 2009)
"Americans want to see changes in the health care system. But they don't want changes that deny, delay, or ration care." (June 11, 2009)
Appearing on Meet the Press in July, Senator McConnell joined a long list of Republican leaders including President Bush, indicted former House Minority Leader Tom Delay and Rep. Paul Broun (R-GA) pointing to America's emergency rooms as one solution to the crisis of the U.S. health care system:
GREGORY: Do you think it's a moral issue that 47 million Americans go without health insurance?
McCONNELL: Well, they don't go without health care. It's not the most efficient way to provide it. As we know, the doctors in the hospitals are sworn to provide health care. We all agree it is not the most efficient way to provide health care to find somebody only in the emergency room and then pass those costs on to those who are paying for insurance. So it is important, I think, to reduce the number of uninsured. The question is, what is the best way to do that?
Then, of course, there's McConnell's central role in Republican efforts to scare the bejesus out of America's seniors over mythical Medicare benefits cuts. As it turns out, the GOP didn't merely oppose Medicare its inception; McConnell was a key player in the Republican effort to gut the program by 15% in the 1990's. Again, McConnell repeatedly turned to rapid-fire lies beginning in July about Obama's Medicare funding plans to machine gun health care reform:
"Some in Congress seem to be in such a rush to pass just any reform, rather than the right reform, that they're looking everywhere for the money to pay for it -- even if it means sticking it to seniors with cuts to Medicare."
That salvo came just two weeks after McConnell promised to defeat health care reform in the Senate, warning America's highest turnout voting block:
"They are going to pay for this plan by cutting Medicare, that is cutting seniors."
And so it goes. The reform bills now being considered in the House would ultimately provide health insurance coverage to 35 million more Americans. It should go without saying that far from "costing you your life," the public option some people will select would save theirs. Of course, for Mitch McConnell, that welcome future will come only over his dead body.
(This piece also appears at Perrspectives.)
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Since Pelosi's piece of crap came out Thursday, 240 people have died for the lack of having health insurance.
It will be another 120 by tomorrow, and then another 120 each day thereafter. And so on and so forth.
HR 676, single payer is the only way. Get the Wall Street Mafia out of health care.
care for people who show up there for treatment, even those without insurance. Even at those hospitals owned by the health insurance industry. Otherwise, they wouldn't get treatment. Lobbyists for private hospitals have made it so once stabilized, the uninsured can be pawned off on "lesser" hospitals (those who accept public funds).
radio talk shows --going the way of all republican liars and fear mongers...
To quote Alice X above ...
"Since Pelosi's piece of crap came out Thursday, 240 people have died for the lack of having health insurance.
It will be another 120 by tomorrow, and then another 120 each day thereafter."
Now this couldn't possibly be a lie or fabrication could it? I mean the part about the number of people dying, not Pelosi's piece of crap, which we seem to agree on.
Wow...the idea of being such a whiny baby that you have to go through refistration just to post your whiny garbage, really says something about you. No life, I see.
Troll elsewhere whiner.
It only took you 1 hour and 19 minutes to re-register after getting kicked off.
Think we can't check, asswipe? Seconding the suggestion that you should GO TROLL ELSEWHERE.
that these whiny babies go through all this effort. Says a lot about them don't you think? It must be that damp basement they dwell in, and the full Pampers.
Especially since their kind then cries and screams OPPRESHUN OMGWTFBBQ!!!11!! if someone comes to their boards and offers an opinion, even the most politely worded. They're incredibly childish, all of them.
You were trying to be forthright by calling yourself WingNut, that's cute.
But simple arithmetic doesn't seem to be your forte.
Over 44,000 dead a year is 120 plus a day.
When you quote me, be complete.
What I want is single payer UNIVERSAL coverage without the barbarism of for-profit health insurance, which Pelosi is guaranteeing with the house bill.
It is not quite full socialized medicine, a la Britain which is actually my preference.
So I gather that you are on the side of the barbarians. Your name fits.
Of course, wingnuts are easily remove by hand--no tools required...
So long troll. Enjoy you fifteen minutes of shame.
his grandchildren's Chinese-made Halloween candy...
Anything can and will kill you if you do it long enough.
"for Mitch McConnell, that welcome future will come only over his dead body."
Hmmm, if only there was a way to help him with that . . .
:)
Yeah, sure.
That's why we here in the UK live longer and healthier lives right?
Because we are denied medical care and medications, because we have to wait for essential treatments right?
Yeah, that lousy UK health care system, who do they think they are making it so that a majority of us here born today will see 100.
I want to die at 68 like a real American God damn it!
I want my 4 year old daughter to die at 75 like at real American!
How dare they make it so she lives to 100! The nerve of those doctors!
What a lying sack of retarded shit.
will gladly accept positions in your will if you want to donate to their woefully inadequate compensation packages...
who died of sclerosis of the liver, would agree had he not died after being denied a transplant by British authorities.
You mean the alcoholic kid who drank his liver away in just 8 years?
Yeah, that would have been a great use of a hard to find organ, you know, keep someone else waiting so this guy could kill the liver in 4 years after the transplant.
Get real. You'll have to do way better then that.
Death Panels. They sentenced him to DEATH!!!
Same would have happened in the US, it would have been an insurance company instead of doctors.
I'd rather have doctors making that kind of call.
At least they really do know the score.
Unlike you.
It was gd bureaucrats that sentenced him to death.
[From 'Risk factors for failure to meet listing requirements in liver transplant candidates with alcoholic cirrhosis,' in the US:
BACKGROUND: The majority of liver transplant centers require a 6-month abstinence period before listing candidates for liver transplantation with alcoholic cirrhosis and a persistent sobriety thereafter-Sitemonitor]
Whine whine whine.
That's what we think of right wing trolls who sign up just to spread bullshit.
It was Gary that signed his own death warrant.
He drank himself to death before his 23rd birthday and sought treatment far too late.
He was dead when he was diagnosed and was denied the liver because of it.
But hey, keep on sabotaging reform if that's your thing, if you want to die an early death from sub standard US health care please be my guest. You'd be doing the world a fat favor.
He killed himself.
Do you make that same excuse for all the guys in the US who do the same? Because it's not as if there aren't tens of thousands of alcoholics going through the same thing here in the US. Are they all "making a mistake"?
And do the insurance companies that deny them medical treatment kill THEM, the same way you claim the UK government "killed" Gary?
Six of one, half dozen of the other. You can't claim it for the UK and not claim it for the US. Whether it's the government or the insurance companies, denial of care is denial of care. And seeing as how we have hundreds of thousands of people being denied all kinds of care here, I'd say the problem in the UK is infinitesimal compared to ours.
I'll take the UK's system over ours any day of the week and twice on Sunday, thank you.
TROLL.
Well there you go, undermining your own argument.
The US. Only there it was because it was too expensive, not because she would have destroyed the new liver with alcohol in less than 5 years making the whole point of the operation moot as was the case in the UK.
Good job proving yourself to be a fool.
As is the case in the US the bureaucrat's make the decisions, not the doctors as here in the UK.
I would think you'd want it the other way around.
But I guess not.
What's your next argument, that the NHS is evil because it's socialist?
there is such fight over here to avoid the Public Option? To keep bureaucrats out it! Keep it between me and my doctor.
It's already not between you and your doctor, it's between you and your insurance provider.
In the US the doctor is a third party who more times than not will be told he can't do what he say's is needed.
It appears that you don't really know what you are talking about, you are just repeating the lies told by Rush and the Fox crew.
Here in the UK it IS between us and our doctors, it was the doctors that made the call in Gary's case you know.
provider, I find a new one or pay for it myself (what a revolutionary idea). Where do I find a new government?
If you are sick and have been refused a treatment (the only time you are going to find out if they will refuse you is after you are sick) you now have a pre-existing condition that will be excluded IF (and the is a BIG if) you can find another insurer to take you.
You really don't know how it works in the US do you?
We don't have that problem, we are covered for all treatments that are needed regardless of pre-existing conditions. If we kill ourselves like Gary did then we killed ourselves. That would be my own fault now wouldn't it? Kind of like shooting myself in the head and then blaming the NHS for not getting the bullet out quick enough to save me.
This asshole clearly has never actually had a problem with insurance coverage, or he wouldn't be spouting such inane horseshit. He's one of those classic American "I've got mine fuck you" jackasses. He'll change his tune the first time an insurance agent tells him he can't have what he wants, you bet he will.
We see it every day. They all change their tune when it's THEIR problem that won't be solved.
But thanks very much for lending your voice to the argument. It's always good to hear from someone who lives in a SANE health care environment.
Notice how easy it is to take apart the arguments as they are presented.
This kind of shit doesn't stand up to the light of fact.
Tell's a lot about his intelligence that he would not be able to see that his arguments are so flimsy and frail that a slight breeze sends them tumbling away like so much trash on the street.
are ALWAYS predictible. As for intelligence....well I don't think that applies in its case.
that when a point is raised that demolishes his argument, he falls silent. No answer to anything that actually points up what a lying jackass he is. Typical schoolyard trick, that.
*sigh* If only these people would learn any technique that's above a primary-school level. Debating them might not get so boring so fast.
Try Somalia.
He'd like that.
I know I'd like it if he went there.
is a pre-existing condition, please take you filled Pampers elsewhere.
Your not very bright, are you?
they're only bureaucrats if they work for the government? And the patients are only "killed" if it's a government worker who says no?
So what exactly happens to all those people in the US who die because the insurance companies do the same thing? Are they whisked away by the fairies? Do they fall through a hole into Wonderland?
Killed is killed, asshole. More die here by several orders of magnitude, so take your trollery and go jerk off in your basement with it.
Since the public option will kill you and Democrats want the public option, Democrats want to kill you. Right? And these are the people who freaked out over Grayson. What a bunch of adults they are. Do as I say not as I do.
Just keep repeating the mantra, and everything will be fine.
I ask them "What sort of Med Insurance do YOU have? How much does it cost YOU? When was the last time you saw a doctor? Does anyone in your family have a serious condition, disease, handicapp? Are you at all worried about loosing your Health Care? What would you do if you lost your job and health care, and then got really sick, or injured in a car accident?"
I do wish someone JUST ONCE would ask asshats like McConnel those questions.
And ask that politician who said hunger was "motivating" to kids: "What did you have for lunch today? When was the last time YOU missed a meal?"
If someone asks it, it won't be Miller. He's been licking their asses for years now.
Sad too. I remember when he used to have a spine.
Join "Joe Lieberman is a Douche" At Facebook. All the cool kids are doing it!
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1621500...
As always - Lie-berman is an insult to douches and even douche-bags everywhere.
:)
...(does he know the meaning of the word?) and the media crush, once and for all, the lie that Americans can get "health care" from the emergency room of a hospital. What they can get is highly selective "emergency care," which has nothing to do with either the efficient allocation of resources, or the timely provision of care to those in need.
If you are in the midst of a heart attack, your local emergency room will do what they can for you (probably). However, if you want help preventing a heart attack (that's health care), you're out of luck. Have high blood pressure and need frequent monitoring? Sorry. Need lab work for a chronic condition? Sorry. The list of what you can not get from an emergency room is many, many times longer than what you can get, because the only thing that hospitals are required by law to provide is emergency care.
In the case of people like McConnell, the problem is most likely simple dishonesty, but for many Americans, the reason they believe this canard is that they are too stupid or too lazy to take a couple of minutes to figure out what kind of care people can get from emergency rooms.
It would be nice if every newspaper in the country would take the responsibility to inform readers seriously and print well-researched articles describing cases of people who have died because their only access to so-called health care was an emergency room.
This is the only wealthy country in the world that has decided that it would prefer to have its people be sicker and poorer rather than provide timely, affordable care to all. This is one sick country -- and the emergency room can't do anything for what ails the American people.
.
The Right-wingers are in favor of eugenics/social Darwinism when their corporate donors can make a profit from it. If there's no profit motive, then they're totally opposed.
We should invent some financial trickery to make war crimes prosecutions profitable.
Republican.
Oh yeah that evil single payer! My brother's cancer is in remission, didn't cost the family a penny. We all pay our taxes and we know what we get for it; our doctors are very busy but doing well. It's not perfect but it's paradise compared to the death rolls down south. Grayson crying should be played as a public service announcement during every NFL game for the rest of time till y'all nationalize healthcare. It made me cry for a couple minutes. It bends my mind that 500km away there's a land that's very rich but will bend you over if ever you succumb to the inevitable, that fear is a tax ... even if you are healthy.
You get all the healthcare you need there. Sure, sometimes you have to wait for non-urgent treatment, my daughter had peritonitis and was operated on 2 hours after being admitted. No charge.
Elective cosmetic surgery you have to pay for, big deal.
Here in the USA, people can't even afford time off work to have a check up, which would discover illnesses early, so they wait until they need to go to emergency when their illness is way too advanced.
What is wrong with these people that they consider health care a luxury and expect people to pay through the nose for what in other countries is a basic right as a human being and a responsibility of government to promote the general welfare of its people?
I imagine if an Aussie was traveling here they would be worried about heathcare.
I was traveling with a friend in Canada and he got very ill. Took him to the hospital and they cared for him overnight - turned out all was well but they were so nice. I don't remember them asking if we were Americans.
My sister is thinking about moving back to the States from Spain, where she's been for ten years now. The only thing stopping her is the thought of health care. She's married and has a kid now, and knowing what's going on over here really scares her - what if he should need care? Spain has government-run care and she's never had to worry a day. He's had a couple of things happen. Nothing major, some childhood illnesses and an accident where he got hit by a car (no lasting damage, thank the gods). But they were all taken care of right away, with no waiting and no payment required.
Now the thought of coming here where thousands of dollars would be extorted from her family every year for NO RETURN, which is what "deductibles" are - a way for insurance companies to weasel out of actually delivering anything for what we pay - the thought of that is making her think very hard about whether she wants to come back here at all.
How is it that the insurance industry is the ONE business that is allowed to take money from people and deliver nothing? How is the practice of "deductibles" even allowed by law? From where I'm sitting, that's called FRAUD. It should be illegal, not allowed.
Hello my friends. Do a story on this clip from the Ed Show;
http://kucinich.us/index.php?option=com_conte...
Dennis Miller has a radio show?
How the once mediocre has fallen:
SNL to HBO to MNF (Monday Night Football) to CNBC to Fox to Amne$ia (8 shows and cancelled) to Westwood One (2nd Team).
Ugh.
He used to be a funny guy back in the 90's. I often went to see his show taped after work.
Let me tell you something moron:
If Medicare raised rates at the same rate as insurance companies do, they would be swimming in cash.
to have a Doctors Without Borders clinic in Kentucky and spread the resulting you tube far and wide
In every city in America. We need them. It's not like the only people dying because they can't afford care are in Kentucky.
but it's where Cabbage Patch McConnell hails from
Tell Congress the "Kucinich Amendment" must be included in a "Managers Amendment" to H.R. 3962 immediately. Pelosi will decide on Monday.
http://democrats.com/state-single-payer?cid=Z...
1,990 pages and well over 100 external references to other Acts, U.S. Codes and Codes of Federal Regulation. Do you really think anyone knows the full impact of this "piece of crap"?
HR 676 is twenty seven pages, everyone will be covered and the savings will be in the hundreds of billions a year.
We will not suffer any further through the barbarism of for-profit health insurance.
No advanced country in the world permits profit in the payment of health care.
Except us, and the question becomes: are we advanced. I think not.
There is a fundamental conflict of interest in the profit motive and the payment of health care. It is barbarism.
Are you on the side of the barbarians.
Do you really need to ask? :D
I am:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ww...
You can bet your ass that it is exactly what you would want in a health care reform bill: watered down, meaningless, and very lucrative to the insurance companies.
How about we also remove all those anti-capitalism restrictions on your local utility providers? Wouldn't it be fun to pay the power bill then! USA! USA! USA!
And that's means it's not just a right wing tool but it's incredibly self centered and stupid as well.
a poor Libertarian. That pretty much says it all.
Pleased to meet you. Now you've met one :)
You are saying you want to be poor forever then.
Smart.
is it? What did you say below about logical fallacies? I'm currently working on it. Going to college on my own money and student loans, also working on starting one or two businesses. A restaurant/bar/brewery and a day care/pre-school. Yes seems a bit of a strange combination and no they will not be at the same place. I have some experience in the restaurant/pub business and enough family and friends that are in it to pick their brains on what I don't know. And my wife has close to 20 yrs experience in the day care/pre-school field with the necessary degrees and experience to manage one(along with half the equipment). She has ran one before as a matter of fact the only thing the owner did was sign the checks.
I'm also smart enough to know why I'm currently in the position I am. And that is myself, which is why I'm working on it, not expecting the Gov to give me handouts and whining about how unfair life is and the mean old business owners.
The debate is how much insurance companies are gouging you and how little they return.
The debate is how they will use rescission to remove your health care from you as soon as you are really sick and need it.
The debate is how they refuse essential care to you after you have paid a significant amount for your take home pay to them to cover what they are denying you.
The debate is how piss poor your medical care is in comparison to the rest of the industrialized world.
The debate is how the insurance companies have raised your premiums 160% over the last 4 years and are set to do so again in the next 2.
You have no idea what the debate is, just like you have no idea about your own health care options and insurance practices.
more than I care to count, and I have never been denied care, nor has my wife or two children. If our care is so "piss poor" why do people come here for care and why does Canada refer patients to U.S. medical facilities?
I know how it works and it has worked very, very well for me and my family.
I simply DO NOT trust governments, especially not to do a better job for me than I can do.
The patients that get referred are sent south for specialized treatments or because there is equipment in the US that is closer than similar equipment in Canada.
That's it, it's that simple. Of course YOUR news sources won't tell you that little tid bit, that would make their insurance company advertisers mad.
Same reason some patients here in the UK go to France and vice verse.
You aren't doing the job for you, you are trusting that you are never going to get sick enough that you will be flagged and denied by your insurer. That is all you are doing.
If you trust someone who's entire job is to make as much profit off of you by deciding what treatments you can get over your elected government then you aren't thinking clearly.
And some patients are going for elective procedures like face lifts, or something similar, and like the fact that simply waving money under a doctor's nose gets them in right away.
It's not that the Canadian system denies them such procedures, but if it's not life-threatening will simply tell them to wait. And the patients are like, "How dare you speak to me that way! I'm too rich! I don't have to wait for anything."
And on top of that because it is big business, our hospitals tend to have the newest most expensive procedures, whether they've been proven medically sound or not.
And again, the "improvement" may be so incremental and miniscule as to be hard to judge its actual value.
in Canada? The waving money under their nose to get faster treatment? Here is a funny(made in a comedic manner) video that shows two people at public health clinics recommending a person go to a private clinic. And one of the people at the public clinic says that there is a 2-3 YR wait to get a private Dr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw
... bullshit right wing propaganda?
Yes, that fits.
If he was really sick he would have gotten immediate care.
He wasn't, so he got what he should have: shown the door.
You wanna try again?
where the nurse says the wait is anywhere between 2-10 hours to be seen. If it was an emergency yes he probably would of gotten immediate care. How about the guy with the broken clavicle they talked to who was there for what was it 8 hours? And all they told him was go see an orthopedic surgeon the next day.
Now my personal experiences in the US went in with a broken finger, 20 minute wait for the x-ray and then another 20 to see the Dr. Cut finger 30 minute wait in triage 10 minutes in the room with the RN then the Dr. was there and checked it out and stitching it up. Broken leg, a bit longer of a wait for the x-ray they had just taken someone back when I got there, but about the same after, put on a temp cast and 6hrs later I was in surgery for it. My son (no insurance) 10 minute wait if that and was getting treatment. Those are my personal ER visits. My office visits are about the same.
... made in a studio.
That nurse could have been an actor for all I know, and that kind of con would be in character for the right wing.
What I can tell you is that in the UK I've gotten better treatment faster than I ever received in the US.
You calling it bs propaganda no more than 6 minutes after I posted it when its a 20 minute film.
As an experienced blogger I know bullshit when I see it.
I watched the opening then FF through it to get the highlights. I am certainly not going to waste that much time on a factless bit of trash like that.
if you don't like what you see in the first minute or two, its BS propaganda.
Save the logical fallacies for a less educated crowd.
What I said is that I can spot a propaganda film in a couple of minutes.
You and anyone in your family can be denied life insurance if any of you develop diabetes, a growing problem in America.
And both Medicare, FEHC benefits and the VA system are all government health programs.
That's always the Republican excuse. "Well, MY family has it and it works great!!" Very convenient - until it's not true anymore.
Let me guess: you've never had a catastrophic illness in your family, right? And none of your family has what's charmingly called a "pre-existing condition", right? So of course you don't see what the problem is.
See, that's called a "lack of compassion." YOU don't have the problem, therefore anybody who does is just a whiner who can't cope. But the day you WILL have it - and believe me, that day will come - suddenly it'll be a TERRIBLE THING that insurance is so cold and uncaring. Suddenly it'll be THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD that your particular problem isn't being addressed.
But you know what? It'll be too late. You'll be screwed up the ass, and there will be a whole lot of people who WON'T GIVE A DAMN. Why? Because then YOU will be the whiner who can't cope.
That there's called "karma" and it's a beautiful thing.
Medicare and Medicaid reform.
It's not your problem, therefore it's a whiner's lament.
Will your kids be eligible for Medicare when they get cancer and your insurance cuts you off?
And yet again, you spout off about something you know nothing about - in this case, Medicaid. What do you know about it? If you've supposedly got so much money for such wonderful insurance, you aren't eligible for Medicaid. Therefore, you know nothing about it.
TROLL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwsR71YZPac
if our care was so "PISS POOR", why would anyone dare to come here for such horrible care and at such exorbitant prices? And how could any government be so careless as to put their citizen's lives at such risk?
Gimme a break.
Right after Costa Rica.
So yes, it is piss poor.
He's not interested in reality. He just wants to jack off in public.
quality and access. In Morocco, they still burn garbage in the street. They're #29.
You are right!
Still, I got the Costa Rican connection correct.
Apparently this is by law even:
http://allcountries.org/health/usa_health_car...
There is a shortage of doctors as decreed by a law.
Isn't that special?
You really don't pay attention, do you?
You've officially bored me, as you clearly have nothing else to say. I'm hitting the "ignore" button now. Bye-bye.
-who pays for your wonderful medical insurance? Do you get it thru your job, or are you so wealthy you can afford the thousands and thousands of dollars in premiums and co-pays and designer drugs? Are you 100% sure that you will never get seriously sick and will never be in a car crash?
Is your insurance work-connected? Do you work for a private company or the Gov't you so despise? Is your job completely safe from a layoffs? If you've got the wonderful-est insurance evar, it is probably really really expensive, and your Bosses might decide to
cut their costsincrease their profits by firing you and hiring a young guy with no family, who is OK with cheap junk insurance.Haven't you noticed what a great job the private sector has done over the last eight years without having competent (non-republican) government regulation?
How can you people be soooooooo freaking dense?
Insurance doesn't want to be Nationwide companies. That would open them up to Nationwide regulation. They were the ones who wanted the McCarran Ferguson Act of 1945. They were even then sharing information with each other.
That way when you are determined by one to have a preexisting condition, they all know of it, and reject you.
And the states who wanted the McCarran Act, are now powerless to do anything because the insurance companies are national in their marketing, but regulated only locally, so there is no crossing of states lines for the better insurance deal.
I would presume that's one of the precedents protecting pharmaceuticals from prescriptions being imported from Canada. Right now pharmaceuticals are trying to maintain profitability by making US taxpayers pay for the Canadians cheaper drugs, because they have a government that cares.
The medical insurance companies meanwhile have been taking over other medical insurance companies so despite changing and different names are essentially owned by four companies, thus becoming monopolistic, which automatically tends to signify lower quality at higher costs upon their demand.
And as for tort reforms, that's just code for protecting US businesses from worker's compensation cases, even when the employer is at fault. Otherwise payouts have been flat the last 15 years.
But one wonders if the insurance companies who deny life-saving care to the citizenry, and have ever-rising premiums, that even American businesses find harder to afford in giving their workers, and increasing copays and deductibles are doing something similar to doctor's malpractice insurance, and thus illicitly grow two streams of revenue at once, while blaming the rare malpractice award for the escalating cost of malpractice, and the providing of health care in general.
Allow companies to market across state lines. It is the states and local districts that have the limited region requirements, aka, government interference.
I believe pharmaceuticals can be imported, but only if they have passed all the required FDA testing, which is quite an onerous burden. I might be wrong, but I don't think so.
Tort reform is not about lowering payouts, it is about limiting frivolous suits and bogus suits in the hope of getting a settlement. It is the defensive medicine costs, all those extra tests to 'protect' the doctor, that are the issue.
As for preexisting conditions, the poor, the elderly, etc., that is what Medicaid and Medicare reform is all about, to guarantee coverage for all.
The companies do not want to cross state lines if it opens them up the Interstate Commerce clause of Article I, Section 8, Clause 3 of the United States Constitution.
And again, under a recent wave of mergers there is essentially only four of them anyway.
They are: Humana, Aetna, WellPoint and Magellan, despite whatever name a medical insurance company may give itself.
They essentially own most of our hospitals as well, and medical chains of local "family" practices not owned by a private doctor.
They also own large amounts of the stocks in pharmaceutical companies.
And they are the one's chiefly involved with lobbying Congress to keep things the way they are, particularly through the deluded tea-baggers.
If they don't want to, they don't have to. Article 8 says that the Feds have the power to regulate interstate commerce, not insurance companies. The Feds can remove that restriction if they wanted to.
That would take a change in Amendments which requires a 3/4 majority in both houses of Congress, and the approval of 4/5 of the states, and to what end, to essentially be held for ransom by the big 4 medical insurance companies?
how exactly would one go about getting those changes, when so many congressmen are in the pocket of the insurance companies anyway?
all ready subject to the interstate commerce clause, every insurance policy I have had has covered me when I crossed state lines so they do business across state lines so they are subject to that clause.
Not to mention that with how Congress and Scotus have interpreted it in the past including health insurance under it wouldn't be much of a stretch, if a farmer growing grain for his own personal use is subject to it, a health insurance company that contracts across state borders to provide care surely does.
...you are a poor Libertarian.
Medicare requires you to be a certain age and Medicaid requires that you be below a specific income level.
Those are NOT coverage for preexisting conditions, they are something else entirely. If you are working or too young you don't get either.
If your preexisting condition is bad enough and you are uninsured in the US you die.
Period. End of story.
No medical care except that given to you in an emergency room to stabilize you so you don;t die on hospital grounds. No follow up, no cure. Just keep you alive with what you;ve got for another few hours so you can die somehwere else.
How can you presume to come here and talk about medical topics when you don't know anything about the subject?
Are you here looking for an education? If so then stop with the trolling and start with the asking. You'll get better treatment in the long run and we'll answer your questions.
Emergency care is also cost-prohibitive and is generally passed to taxpayers and those with insurance policies annual premiums.
One must be entirely destitute to qualify for Medicaid, Medicare starts at age 65.
God you are one Stupid SOB.
Yes. That's why they call it reform because they would be re formed into something slightly different.
That's the insurance companies line, to say they're for reform, but limited reform
In other words, reforms that protect their profitability, if not increase them.
And HR 676 would essentially reform Medicare so it's available to all and sundry.
And HR 676 would essentially reform Medicare so it's available to all and sundry.
And that's precisely why it's an EVIL bill that must NEVER be passed. Because that would mean everyone would get health care and the vampire industry couldn't suck our blood anymore. Can't have that!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KwbmzmTBKw
That would mean government run insurance!
So you are for government run insurance now?
Perhaps just make it for everyone and watch the insurance companies go out of business left and right until there are just a few left for people like you?
Like that?
Hey, wake up call, that's what those on the left here are talking about.
If you want to pay please feel free, here in the UK there are private insurance companies, hell I even have private insurance through my employer. Never had to use it, it's mostly so I am covered for trips to barbarous nations like the US.
They're fine with government run insurance - when it's something THEY can take advantage of. Medicare is great because everybody gets old, and they know they'll need it.
See, it's the stuff they think they'll never need that is BAD and TERRIBLE and SUSPICIOUS. Just like fire departments are fine, and police departments, and public works. All the things THEY use are great. But all the services for those nasty poor people - gotta get rid o' them! They're UNMURRIKIN!!
I have a relative from Canada, and she likes their system, but prefers the British, since it maintains more choices.
Even in the VA they check my income and insurance coverage through my employment, and presumably even an expanded Medicare program (as under HR 676), would do the same.
Let the insurance companies make as much money as possible while taking away any requirements that they provide ANY care to ANYBODY. Let more people die while the fat cats get fatter.
TROLL TROLL TROLL
"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge.
"Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
"And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not."
"The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge.
"Both very busy, sir."
"Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it...
"I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population...It's not my business," Scrooge returned. "It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!"
-- A Christmas Carol, Charles Dickens
An ancestor of yours, I presume? He certainly has the same attitude.
dennis miller has a radio show?
Who knew?
The thing about Public Option is that it is not government controlled health care. As envisioned by the president, it's just a way of providing coverage for those who would otherwise lack coverage.
As for HR 676, which I back, since it's essentially a Medicare program for all, what is the history of Medicare for approving new techniques of treatment and care? Right now insurance can deny life-saving care, because the feel it's too "experimental."
Even in the VA system, which I am under they don't necessarily go with the newest drugs in the pharmacopeia, but those with a history of working. But then apparently it doesn't take much changes much for the pharmaceuticals to claim a products is "new and improved," and maintain a high price tag.
Here I am having a really good discussion on a far left board with some very nice, well informed people advocating government run health care. I look at the bottom of the page and see an ad for:
"Stop Government-run Health Care"
Is that weird?
It's ads by Google, they post ad's that are linked to the discussion. Often it is right wing bullshit because that is what the corporations want us to see so they pay the extra to make sure it comes up first.
The laws about propaganda are stricter here so what I get are ads from Tesco for tea and fat burning supplements.
Isn't Tesco a grocery store?
When I was in London last May, I seem to recall a small corner Tesco where we got groceries, about the size of a 7-11.
But they all aren't that small.
That was a mini Tesco.
There are Tescos here the size of super Walmarts, with just about the same range of products.
That's what I understood too.
But I remember seeing billboards for another chain as well, and I heard it was owned by Walmart, but I can't remember the name of the company.
I don't shop there, it will be a cold day in hell before the Walton's get one penny from me.
Just like I went without cable TV or fiber internet until I moved to a neighbourhood that had Virgin Media, I wasn't about to let Sky (Rupert Murdoch son's company) have any of my hard earned cash so he could use it to finance the Tories.
I'll be in London for 14 hrs on the 10th of Nov.
Maybe we can get together and have a pint?
PM me and we can exchange info!
I need to check my itinerary again. I'm going to Scotland for my Dads funeral. ouch... that hurt.
But give me some time . Check back. and I'll have some info.
Hey, got any recommendations for a nice hotel? Not to expensive mind you.
I'm not a Trump.
BTW, what's a PM ? as in pm me.
Bmi 13 Economy | Airbus Industrie A319 (319) | 1hr 30min | 345 miles
Depart: 7:25pm Glasgow, United Kingdom Glasgow International (GLA)
Arrive: 8:55pm London, United Kingdom London Heathrow (LHR)
All I know is Prime Minister.
It was funny in a way, but when I was touring the 12th century part of Parliament, I was questioning the people who worked there how their governmental system works, and they seemed to not quite know themselves.
if I went there that ailment thats been bothering me would have just happened and I need to be treated ;)
I was in the yuppie part of London.
Sometimes I wish I could stay there.
But I'm working class.
I suppose in London that would suck bollocks
(Except for health care of course).
So their grocery stores don't have names like Piggly Wiggly's?
Guess who I'm going to see while I'm there?
You're auntie?
Lots of those. And Uncles too. Cousins, nieces and nephews.
And of course my Mom and brother.
This has been one fubar year Y.
Like no other. That's for sure.
I meant your special auntie...
And I'm not going to look for one either.
But that was funny Y. Thanks. You made me laugh.
Actually I'm not sure if it was a billboard but a delivery truck with the name on the side.
Our cabbie explained who they were.
Not only do you not know anything about health care reform, you don't know anything about internet advertising, either.
Is there anything you AREN'T ignorant about?
It's only been on the Intertubes for a little over an hour now!
For a newbie, it seems to know its way around a posting board really well.
... is that all the right wing bullshit is immediately debunked right here and right quick for all to see.
Damn good to see that everyone here knows the score and knows what reality is. There is another board that I frequent where this isn't really the case any more now the Obama has been elected. It's like now the GW is gone they have decided that keeping informed and knowing what you are talking about is secondary to sounding cool and nodding their heads together in unison.
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