Prop 8: The Ad That Upset the Mormon Church
By Julia Rosen Monday Nov 03, 2008 5:45pm(full disclosure: I work for the Courage Campaign)
"Home Invasion" was produced by two of our friends in the progressive movement -- netroots activists and brothers Dante Atkins and David Atkins. This 60-second ad satirically skewers the Mormon Church's dictation of public policy to Californians. We will be airing on CNN, MSNBC and Comedy Central in selected markets on Election Day.
Let's just say, the Mormon Church is not pleased and the Salt Lake City media is all over this ad. They are uncomfortable being in the spotlight, which they richly deserve for being the biggest force behind the Yes on 8 campaign. BTW they have been planning a fight like Prop 8 since 1997. Dante Atkins (hekebolos) has an internal document from the Mormon Church up on Daily Kos.
Here is the statement they have released in response to the ad.
“The Church has joined a broad-based coalition in defense of traditional marriage. While we feel this is important to all of society, we have always emphasized that respect be given to those who feel differently on this issue. It is unfortunate that some who oppose this proposition have not given the Church this same courtesy.”
We respect that you feel differently about this issue, but rather than respecting our differing positions, you have attempted to impose your position on all of California. That is what we are responding to and why we are fighting so hard to keep our rights that you are trying to take away.
If you are in CA and can volunteer tomorrow, call your local No on 8 office. If you like our ad, contribute to help get it up on the air.
And here is the big one. Make sure that everyone you know makes it to the polls tomorrow and votes all the way down the ballot. Even if Obama is looking good and numbers are coming in from the East Coast, we need to make sure people go vote. So spread the word! No on Prop 8.
Let's annoy the Mormon Church even more with a victory tomorrow.
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Good Ad. I can see why they would be offended. They have no sense of humor when it comes to their precious missionaries.
Where is the separation between church and state. I'm really sick of the interference with all of these religious groups.
I hope you target Focus on the Family too!
That was a great video, too bad they didn't break out the magic underwear.
Funny how prejudice against Mormons single-handedly kept Mitt Romney from gaining traction. Here's a religion one step shy of Scientology trying to further drive down its rep. Here's a cult that dominates the culture and politics of the most Republican state, and yet goes high profile against a group that cannot defend itself.
I live in California and I am affected by Proposition 8 directly. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. No one told me how to vote on the Proposition. No one forced or coerced me into donating time and money to this moral cause. Churches will lose their tax exempt status by being forced to uphold the newfound "right" of a class of people to conflict with the time-honored institution of marriage. It is not a question of an apolitical organization entering the arena of politics, because Proposition 8 is not a political matter. Voting for a candidate is a political matter; preserving the definition of marriage is a social, moral, and apolitical matter. I am in the second year of law school, I hold two degrees. I am a teacher, husband, father, and professional. I seriously question the merits of Steve Young's being congratulated--touted as a hero--for voicing no opinion whatsoever on the matter (not disclosing how he will vote on the Proposition), while his wife goes to bat for an older brother in Palo Alto. What happens when moral issues are placed on the table is that an opportunity is created for anti-religious zealots who don't understand the religion they persecute. Please respect me enough to respect the fact that, with the agency I was given and which is promoted by my religion, I have made the choice autonomously and in the light of the life experience I have acquired to this point, to vote for a Proposition that will preserve one of the most important institutions in society as it has always been known. We do not understand nor can we begin to fathom the implications of stirring up the notion of marriage as it has always been known. This is not a social experiment; it is a moral question. The Church I belong to has every right to become involved.
What if it was a proposition aimed at Mormons? Would it make any difference to you then?
I myself would like to see the "term" marriage left alone.
But this comes down to something bigger than that. It's discrimination. Plain and simple. What if there is a proposition aimed at say, People from your church? Do you see where I'm going with this? Where does it stop?
"We The People" actually means something to me. It means alot too me.
Not "We Some of the People".
It's pretty simple when you get passed your own (you fill in the blanks)
I cannot believe that you dare say YOU will be "affected" by this. You at least seem not to be gay, and therefore everything about YOUR life will remain exactly the same whether 8 passes or not.
"What happens when moral issues are placed on the table"...
surely, you jest! Do you think gay people put this on the ballot? NO! They did not. People like YOU placed it on the table. Nobody's trying to take away your faith, YOU are trying to take away other people's rights.
Some people will never be able to see past their own nose.
Those twits have been thick here in Monterey . I never thought I'd see something like that here.
All they achieved was to piss off the local people.
Monterey.
We say Fuck Them!
Marriage affects the family. The family is the foundation of America and the world. How can you say that gay marriage will not affect someone who is not gay? It will affect education, the work place, homes and families. It will subjectify the definition of an appropriate marital union. Those of you who have been referencing the Mormon church's polygamist past, what's to stop that from happening again, and legally this time, if the definition of marriage were changed? And just as a clarification, the Mormon church hasn't practiced polygamy for well over a hundred years.
I find it hypocritical that some feel themselves justified in making sweeping, uninformed and bigotted statements about the Church under the banner of protecting an individual's right to believe and live and support causes that they feel to be "right." In no way has the Church been bigotted in their support of Prop 8. They have not called for people to hate or disrespect, only to uphold their beliefs. And even if they did, as many of you seem to belive, does this justify your ignorant bigotry?
Why is it OK for people to slander Mit Romney, involving Church with State, but not OK for the Church to give and support an opinion of their own? If the Mormon church were to support gay marriage, would you have the same problem? Would you feel they were overstepping their bounds? I doubt it.
And for those of you who think WE as Mormons, don't know what bigotry, or political campaigns aimed at our core beliefs feels like, I suggest you do a little homework and you will find an extermination order, legalizing the murder of LDS people in Missouri, the rape and murder of Mormon women and children, and the INTOLERANCE of almost two centuries. But somehow this does not qualify us as people who know bigotry. I have personally had a shotgun pointed in my face, and threatened with death for no other reason than my faith.
You don't have to agree with my religion. And guess what, those who didn't, banned its definition of marriage over one hundred years ago. Do you have a problem with polygamy being illegal? Then don't tell me I don't have the right to oppose gay marriage.
How can you teach if you don't even know about the simple concept of a paragraph?
Oh, by the way... it would seem a little bit hypocritical, to the untrained eye at least. For an institution, which sanctioned polygamy until recently, to erect itself as the paladin of the sanctity of marriage.
Your church has every right to be involved, that is for sure. But once they do, they violate the separation of church and state. And then, youse guys have to pay taxes. Again, that is your right... now please will the moron church start paying taxes? Thank you very much.
PS. Comments from people like you, remind me of the prototypical abusive husband who beats the shit out of his wife... and between punches he blames her for the beat up "why do you make me do this to you!"
You get into a different field.
Law is not you bud.
Let me answer that -- not at all. No one is forcing you to be queer, or marry a guy. No one is saying to you, "Mr 'Moral Cause,' you can't marry the person you are in love with."
If you saw a guy marrying a woman of whom you did not approve, say you felt she was morally bereft [and lets say the groom knows the scoop], would it be any of your business to stop it? No.
Butt out old man. There's no room left in the world for you hypocritical religious types who profess to live by the word of God and/or Jesus, who have found it necessary to violate those very words to destroy the hopes and dreams of people you don't know (Hint "Judge not, lest..." and "Judgement is mine...")
You fucking suck, 'Teach.' And as a person descended from founding members, I find your claims of not being pressured into working to be -- how can I put this? Oh yeah. Bullshit. Those of us with any knowledge of Morman ways know exactly what the deal is. There is no autonomy there buddy. They control you.
And you protest way too much.
LDS needs to STFU and stick to their comic book intellect theology.
Me thinks the Mormons protest too much. Too close to the truth for them? Too bad.
They want to play politics? They learned very quickly to use expensive ads to spread their lies- I am not going to worry about offending them...
Man, that was fast. Video no longer available. When did YouTube start working for the Mormons?
It's working for me.
try it two or threee times, maybe leave the site (horrors!) and come back and then it may open... good luck
"And here is the big one."
Kind of ironic considering the subject is gay marriage.
I can hear Rip Taylor saying "Oh my," while fanning his vapors.
Chili gives me the vapors.
on the issue, then perhaps they should stop dumping millions of dollars across state lines in support of legislation that is COMPLETELY DISRESPECTFUL of an entire class of people. Just a hunch.
The mormon church can go fuck itself as far as I am concerned.
where might i see this, as the terms of use bug has bitten it
thanks, good night and literally have a pleasant tomorrow (couldn't resist)
I've played it twice already. Now running for the third time.
You using Firefox without the latest Flashplayer?
yeah, i'm on Firefox, and i update pretty hard, but all is once again good. thanks, AK
try installing latest flash - i had problems with flash video before I did that.
You'd think a group that has been persecuted for its past marriage practices would support individual rights and freedom of choice in the matter. But maybe they're just bitter -- "If we can't have polygamy, you can't have your wish either."
If the Mormons had their way, the definition of marriage would be changed from “One Man, One Woman” to “One Man, Many Women”. Sanctify that suckas.
Maybe they should ban marriage between mormons. That would lower tomorrow's pool of racist bigot idiot's.
http://www.EvolveFISH.com/fish/media/S-BanRep...
if it were up to the church it would be one white man one white woman.
it would be one white man and a bunch of white women, most of them underage.
Fuck Joseph Smith and the horse he rode on...
with the horse he rode in on.
Enjoy this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOZQsuLDqBk
is this not airing until election night?
made and we just got the funding to get it on the air.
It is airing election Day.
Thanks for your work Julia. I'm so disgusted that I live in a country that STILL discriminates. I don't care if my neighbors are idiots, but government on a state or federal level has no business in denying anyone's right to the pursuit of happiness. It's unconstitutional and bigoted.
...that respect be given to those who feel differently on this issue..."
They show "respect" by initiating force against those who feel differently. Because feelings, like your gay love for your romantic partner, or of a basic love of liberty, do not count in the Mormon Church's eyes.
Like Palin on the first amendment.
I know quite a bit about living in areas controlled by this church. Go to any small town/rural area in the Intermountain West, where wagonloads of settler-families homesteaded starting soon after the Civil War, at the direction of Brigham Young. Take over all the water, he said. And descendants of those same families are still there today, running local governments. Scions of these pioneer families are regularly sent to Washington: Udall, Flake, etc.
True story:
I lived in the White Mountains of Arizona for most of the '80's and '90's. When in early 2000 I had started writing songs based on local history (including this settlement era), I started making cassette tapes of some of my songs and sold them (hand-written, totally low-budget) for $5 each. The first one became very popular, and I sold one to the curator of the little museum in Show Low where I'd gotten many of my stories. I took my guitar there and previewed each new song for them; they were so delighted that I'd performed for the monthly meeting of the Show Low Historical Society, where the people had the same names as the streets in that town (and, not coincidentally, all Mormons.) They invited me to play at the upcoming Arizona State Historical Society, a few months down the line.
Now, each time I sold one of these tapes, I pointed out that there was a wide variety of songs on there, and they weren't all about local history, nor even all socially acceptable. "Watch out for this one," I pointed out every time as my disclaimer. Number 7 was entitled "The Oral Sex Song." Clearly marked, I didn't sell to minors and felt very happy pocketing the money (especially as a hard-working single mother!)
I was on a roll, writing and performing for a rapt audience, and soon had an hour's material on Arizona Territory (including a song about the Mormon and Hashknife range war.) So imagine my chagrin when, a few weeks later, I arrived at the museum to find that I had suddenly become persona non grata...
That tape I'd sold had been put on the big stereo at the Whipple's house, the president of the Society and a former Bishop of the Church, by his wife who'd acquired it-- apparently without reading the list of song titles (and NOT the person who had bought it!) Fifteen minutes later, her husband rushed out on the deck where she'd gone, face and ears red, saying, What have you done?!? That's about how long it had taken to get to that seventh song.
The curator was instructed to tell me, the next time I came to the museum, "We don't want a woman like you representing our town at the state convention."
So I didn't. But I kept on selling tapes. My day job driving a roach coach made it easy, and nail-pounders and tire guys were a much more appreciative audience.
Oh-- one more bit about that song. It was banned at the only biker bar in town. Perhaps it was inspiring too many people to leave...
My friend ran Bill Bar on Deuce of Clubs. Had a place out by Fools Hollow Lake. Your right, the Jack Mormons pretty much ran me out of town. They figure if you don't pray with them your evil (and they all carry weapons)
...a couple of times in the '80's, before it burned in '89. And hey, the Mormons aren't the only religious group that can run people out of town... the Baptists did it to me in Spavinaw, OK, when I started writing and performing the true history of that bootlegger's town.
Any time an organized religion tries to legislate morality for others, there's trouble.
Keep in touch and we can share war stories. i have a few.
Just wanted to throw a little correction in there, "Jack Mormons" are the ones who do very little, or are even lapsed members of the church, similar to Cultural Mormon.
of any kind is UnAmerican. Period.
Who wrote their own version of the other version of another version of a bunch of old stories written by people who thought the world was flat and was the center of the universe, they sure can raise a lot of money from their indentured slave base for this kind of bigotry don't you think.
I think we should drive them out of the rest of the states and send them all to their promise land of Utah.
of any kind is Unamerican. Period.
If I was told that I could enter the promised land of Utah, I would hope they didn't keep their promise.
I live in the promise land. Floriduh.
Wiki "Mountain Meadows Massacre".....and understand what the LDS is capable of, of pushed into the corner...
Paraphrasing Lazarus Long.."Never frighten a little man, he'll kill you."
...there is a big plaque at the Courthouse downtown about that massacre. The wagon train had originated in that area. For those of you who would sortof like to know (but not enough to look it up), these folks had made it to the high Rocky Mountains when they were ambushed by a bunch of Mormons who killed everyone except the children. Those, they stole and raised as their own. Eventually one man (the Bishop) was imprisoned for this, but not for very many years.
... on the U.S. Government?
Talk about un-American.
read 'US Army' circa 1857-1890 in the 'western territories'. There is plenty of blood on our hands.
Is not separation of church & state something your founding fathers stood for?
Why the intrusion of religious beliefs into politics & the justice system has been allowed to run amok runs into the 'twilight zone' for me.
Church = fantasy
State = reality
Until the U.S. deals with this issue, your country will never be the great nation that your founding fathers intended it to be.
where You live,bub,But I'd bet We got more rights than You ever dreamed about. We'll go about getting them back. I suggest You work to acquire a few in your own place. Just sayin'.
I thought this was great. Gets the point across in easy to empathize with way and hits the LDS church for pouring money into civil matters. Nice job! :)
That Joe the Plumber thread is getting more comments :P Go Steelers!!!
Steelers indeed!
Ive got my Terrible Towel with me at the office and NFL game center open keeping an eye on it.
Yea, I'm curious to see what Obama and McCain have to say at halftime...
I dunno, coming across as anti-religious might not be the smartest tactic. Better that the GBLT community communicate to the religious that they are children of the same God that they worship and should be treated with the same dignity and respect that any child of God deserves. Pose the questions: What threat do we represent to you? How do we diminish your own marital commitments when we love our families too? Why should we not be able to visit our loved ones in the hospital when they are suffering and in need?
Who knows? I'm a straight agnostic, I just think that such a tactic would have a greater effect than alienating and dehumanizing people. Even if they are acting out of fear and ignorance, maybe especially then.
I thought that tactic was above US. Apparently not.
That seems too narrow a label. I imagine this is coming from a more broad-based, inclusive community of liberty-minded folk.
comes with a price. Advance your cause on it's own merits. demonizing your foe lowers your merit. I thought We just got over 6 fucking months of McShame demonizing Obama-which we all condemned. NOW it's OK ? Really? REALLY?
If the cloven-hoof fits...
... as being anti-religious.
Really?
Concern trolls say the darnest things...
Heh, as a long time commenter here, that label hardly applies. Open your eyes and your heart and maybe you'll learn to win people over. I understand the anger, I've seen the videos of the proposition eight supporters, they're horrific and frightening. The GLBT community needs to find a way to turn the tables on these people and the demagogues who manipulate their fear and ignorance for political gain.
called me a 'concern troll' and then ran away.
Concern troll...
Why is it so offensive to your sensitivities to see a pictorial representation of what the mormon church is literally trying to do to a sector of the population? Do you find truth offensive?
Oh, right. It is somebody else's rights... so you get to play holier than thou bullshit artist.
I didn't get personal with You,Tyler. You called me names- making my argument more valid. Now. You have not made a point,yet. I have.
Discrimination of any kind is Unamerican. the government has no right to say who and who shall not marry. hell,i don't care if someone wants to marry a goat. If the goat agrees and signs the papers who am i to say? it's No ones business. i am just tired of attack ads. Just my two cents. Over and out.
If you have to repeat that "blah blah blah about what is unamerican" every couple of posts and label this as an "attack" ad.
You are being intellectually disingenuous, or you have not seen the ad, or you do not know what an attack ad is, or you are simply following a script.
Take your pick...
I made plenty of points, you are simply using demagogy.
You most likely haven't even seen the ad, and seems that you just parse my messages with whatever allows you to continue your victimization routine.
I am sure you will sing a different tune when your rights come under attack.
You are still not able to say what is exactly so "anti-religious" about that ad. But by all means, do your best holier than thou routine. I find it quite entertaining really.
If only your ilk would have the same energy to defend the people whose rights are under attack, as you seem to have to avoid hurting the sensibilities of those attacking the rights of other people... we would live in a much better word.
at my idea for a more effective ad below. You'll win a lot more people over with a tactic like that than getting in the face of and insulting people who might disagree with you out of fear and prejudice. Ads like the one posted here probably convinced more people to vote for proposition 8 than against it. It might feel good to get your outrage out, but how effective is is?
behavior!
I just love this. I am gay and I was raised HARD CORE mormon. I'm glad someone is doing something provocative like this because this encapsulates the situation here.
Here's my idea for a better commercial, one aimed at evoking sympathy from the religious:
Open: A woman (not a hot chick, think of your mom, your sister or daughter, not an object of heterosexual envy) dying in a hospital bed alone.She looks at a picture longingly at her bedside of her ex-spouse due to proposition 8.
Her ex-spouse (also not a hot chick) comes to the hospital with flowers to comfort her.
A large, angry brutish man bearing the sign proposition eight stops her, saying: "You are not related to this woman, you shall not pass!"
cut back to the woman in pain and agony dying alone. She takes her last breath and a tear runs down her eye.
cut back to her ex-spouse crying at her funeral saying: "If only I could have been there for her."
Then cut to a picture of Jesus on the cross with the quote:
"Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
Vote no on proposition 8
Don't think this would fly, snowball. (Is that Private Snowball?)
For one, even without "marriage" gays in California have official domestic partnerships which allow hospital visitation rights (CA Fam. Code 297.5).
Second, people are not reviling or persecuting gays falsely on account of their faith in Jesus Christ. Your choice of scripture is not appropriate here.
I do not think you are going to win an argument with a Fundie or a Mormon by quoting out of context Scripture to them. You might be able to convince them that governing based on religious beliefs is not a smart way to govern (you might bring up that's what they do in Iran) but that probably won't work either. Logic doesn't work on Fundies.
I wonder if they're born that way or if it's a choice.
You feel that sting, huh? That's the truth right there, messin' with you. No likey so much when that curtain gets pulled back a bit, no?
And could someone explain how possibly the LDS could retain their tax-exempt status after this? Are those rules confined only to supporting candidates and parties?
I'm leaving work early to get my vote in. Please CA, please consider the s---stain on our state this blighted, malignant piece of work would be.
Don't soil an otherwise good day...
If a Mormon comes a knockin', just tell them you're a Born Again Christian. They take flight instantly. Kinda funny really that Evangelicals and Mormons are so scared of each other and yet they are bound by one same thread: Hate.
Too cold here to answer the door nekked.
We used to play that on the asshole mormons, who thought it was a swell idea to go door to door preaching at 8 am on a fucking Saturday morning, while I was in undergrad.
There was once a couple of British (or were they Aussies?) comedians who went over to Utah, dressed up like a pair of preaching mormons; black trousers, white shirt, tie, bicycle, and immaculate hair do. And went door to door in the morning asking people if they wanted to hear about the good word of Satan, and about atheism in general.
They were greeted with physical threats, and some people actually brought out their guns.
Seems what is good for the goose (preaching door to door at buckfuck early in the morning) is definitively not good for the mormon gander.
There lies the massive hypocrisy of these assholes... fuck'em, and the planets they think they will become gods of when they die.
on the google banner ad earlier this evening !
Is that ad targeted to the individuals web browser or just a generic everybody sees it one.
16.17 earlier today
[Check your e-mail, Ferrofluid. I mailed you something when you first asked. Site Monitor]
Organized religion, of any stripe, stay the fuck away from trying to govern those who are not part of your cults.
This is, I think, still somewhat of a free country.
attack ads of any stripe is not the way to go. Present your case on it's merits.
i love the fact that "the god who wasn't there" is advertised all over C&L of late I point this out simply to make a point that there are voters out there that do not believe but will still vote for Obama 08'
It said, "Christian... who votes Democrat."
There's room for all types on this big bus, and nobody has to sit in the back.
They should have included a clip about how up until the 1960's the Mormon Church believed black people to be a spiritually inferior race that was destined to go to hell.
Blacks were not allowed to get the priesthood until 1978, they were never considered destined to go to hell. Interestingly, this was not an original policy but enacted under Brigham Young.
Actually according to Mormon theology pretty much everyone gets into heaven, just different levels. According to Wikipedia the lowest level includes "liars, and sorcerers... and whoremongers..." Sounds like my kind of party.
Only in America I can imagine this sales pitch taking place:
"Hello, my name is Joseph Smith. I am a convicted embezzler, but that is nether here nor there. I want to tell you about these tablets of gold I just found back in the forrest. I don't see to locate them at the moment, but trust me they talk about this moroni dude and well..."
Of course, only in America there will be an idiot whose response to the fore mentioned sales pitch replied: "Go on...."
Really, only in America? I was raised non-religious, and many of the passages from the old and new testaments sounds as out there to me as what I have read from the book of mormon, only more poetic.
Alas, for some reason... stories about a Jewish Zombie seemed less far fetched than the whole non sense that is the mormon dogma.
Although in the old times it was more a coercion-based approach (worship this or else), and Joseph Smith initially was more of a sales approach (I will throw in polygamy at no cost) in an already crowded market place (North Eastern USA a century and a half ago was a hotbed of fundie Christian activity).
Discrimination of any kind is Unamerican. The Government has no right to tell anyone who they may or not marry. hell,I don't give a fuck if someone wants to marry a goat. If the goat agrees and signs the papers,who am i to say? It's none of my business,and noone elses. I just think the ad is the wrong approuch. I've seen too many attack ads. just my two cents. Over and out.
... hint, if you have to give "disclaimers" it is because your stripes are showing.
Again, why is it so offensive about this ad? Other than stating literally what the Mormon church is trying to do: remove the rights of a sector of the population of California.
My opinion. It seems that this ad doesn't play to the right audience.
I think it would be more effective if they 2 guys came in and searched for the license and when leaving, they would say something that would grab the attention of other groups.
Something like:
"Next year we are going to go after those born again christians and make them see the only true religion, (Mormon)."
or
"Next year we are going after the alcohol distributors and put an end to intoxication. We will start by banning beer at NASCAAR races.
Anyone have a link to where one might be able to watch the ad? Seems like youtube is at it again with its arbitrary censorship policy.
The youTube works now...
... The NSA fixed it for us.
[W]e have always emphasized that respect be given to those who feel differently on this issue.
To borrow from the late law professor, Charles Black, when an entity that supports such vile ads as those that lie and fear monger in the Prop. 8 campaign speaks of respect for the other side, we must exercise one of the solemn prerogatives of philosophers --- that of laughter.
.
So, the Mormons are afraid of same sex couples because it might lead to...
... Polygamy? Fathers marrying multiple underage daughters? What's next?
.
... if they find you making fun of the only true faith, your skin may darken... and then you will look like a native American and won't have your own planet when you die. That's what's next....
Yes... we must all remember the exalted place that religious believers are entitled to in our discourse... or they get all huffy.
Remember, the mormon church was founded by a convicted embezzler, practiced genocide, and is among one of the most bigoted organizations in the US of A. Furthermore, it is the only religious organization who has declared war on the American government in the past.
Based on that glorious past, they truly deserve the upmost respect an admiration. And according to the concern trolls in this thread... displaying in a pictorial fashion the reality of what the mormon church is trying to accomplish: removing people's civil rights by having church interfere with state. Is some how one of the biggest crimes anyone could ever accomplish. Way worse than wiping out entire indian populations or having a history of child abuse.
After all, let's all remember how it worked wonders for the polite people in the concetration camps when they asked pretty please to not be gassed. Gandhi must be rolling in his grave, while observing the current drop of lazy concern trolls who try to pass "passive acceptance" as the decaf substitute (it requires no commitment, and more importantly no action) for the "civil disobedience and passive resistance" of yore.
The ad was funny, some of the responses, not so much.
As someone who has grown up in Utah I have met many Mormons. Some of them were assholes, some of them were the nicest people you would ever meet. Imagine that, that an organized group might have jerks and might have good members.
Now I am as anti-LDS leadership as the next guy, well except maybe ex-mormons, but to paraphrase a saying of the religious right: "love the member, hate the church." Seriously, there are many Mormons who are disaffected with conservative politics in general, especially the kind defended by evangelicals who openly call their church a cult. While Utah is still solidly red this election, compare this year to the previous one and you will see that the dems have made some serious ground. It would be smart not to shoot ourselves in the foot with this one by at least being civil.
The add, I though was a bit over the top. I the whole notion of scare tactics in politics was something that they should have choosen not to embrace. The scanrio of the home invasion was in itself "not cool" at all. Sure if the propositon passes it will have far reaching effects on families and couples. But linking opposition to a certain bill not only demanizes one specific group, it also could have the affect of triggering greater solidarity amoungst even mildly affiliated people. I am sure that the morman church did give plenty of money for the suppose of consolidating prop 8 efforts. To me the church is just playing hard ball like everyone else, by all means get out there and organize to get out the vote "for" the "right" of marriage, and join or form action committies. Exercise your "right" to assembly and information by all means. I would still vote "no" to prop 8. I just feel that this add some how loses moral ground to the church. It makes them out to be facist invadors, and thats not something opposition to prop 8 needs to win the day.
...one day before friggin' Election Day. Although it kind of felt like a shotgun wedding because of political expediency, the joy that we experienced is indescribable, and more importantly, EVERY loving couple should have the right to experience it.
Good ad, and very scary too. I think its using two men coming into the house of two women gives it an added sinister punch. I sure hope to hell that we Californians give these hatemongers the shaft on Prop. 8 tomorrow. All those millions wasted on their crusade of hate would be sweet... except for the fact that that same money could have been used for something beneficial.
First off congratulations on your wedding.
As a citizen and tax payer you should have the same rights as every other citizen and tax payer of this land of ours.
I know this may sound a bit insensitive, since the argument I am going to put forth is based solely around money (for that I apologize, but money is the only language the fundie conservatives understand at the end of the day). There is no reason why an organization, which does not pay taxes, should be in a position to dictate which rights, real tax payers can access, arbitrarily.
It is no surprise that the John McCain - Sarah Palin ticket has gone increasingly negative down the home stretch. They really don’t have any other options to close the gap. However, a new negative advertisement is particularly disturbing in its hypocrisy.
http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Leaked_Ad_f...
Sarah Palin has consistently advocated abstinence-only education in schools, despite the fact that this philosophy has resulted with both Palin and her daughter conceiving out of wedlock. Clearly, abstinence-only has not worked for the Palin family, yet Sarah Palin wants to prescribe this in place of comprehensive sexual education for other young Americans.
This advertisement came from the same 527 group that put forth this anti-Obama spot last week…
http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Leaked_Pro_...
I would LOVE to see someone in Cali put a proposition on the table that bans marriages between Mormons and Catholics and takes away THEIR civil rights. It might not pass, but it sure would be sweet to see how many of these so-called "Christians" would vote to take away rights to other religions that they themselves do not consider legitimate. Many Xtians honestly think Mormons and Catholics are akin to aliens for Ormicron Persei 8.
The church that was right about having multiple wives (until faced down by the dreaded civil law, "reforming" itself) now chimes in with its alleged morality. Hey, Salt Lake, stuff it.
I would say that it's a bit of a risk for these churches to step out into the political fray. There could be severe blowback in the form of a pissed-off populace.
Maybe some states will be upset enough that citizens bring forth a new proposition: one that takes away their tax-free status. They've given nothing back to society but fear, bigotry, and idiocy. We get to pay for their police, fire, and other services and in exchange we get this?
Hit them in the pocketbook and shove this monster back in a box!
And be sure to nail the lid on tight.
The Mormon Church wants to play politics, but it doesn't want to face the consequences that arise from that choice.
I guess they really ARE Republicans.
Aren't they all the same.
This is the BEST AD IN THE ENTIRE ELECTION SEASON!!!!
REALLY!
Anybody got another link?
Found another posting of the ad on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps2NpihrbZE
I just saw this ad on MSNBC, and it is perfect. My question? Where was this ad two weeks ago? Or even a week ago? Of course, I applaud Courage Campaign for running it, and if they just got the funding to run it today, then it is what it is. But I don't understand why other No on 8 ads run over the past two months have not emphasized the connection between the Yes on 8 and the Mormon Church. If people understood that a church was trying to impose its worldview on our state, I think the opposition would be a little stronger than it currently is.
NO On 8!!!
Once again, the opposition forces show that their true agenda is to attack religious organizations. The direct attack against the Mormon
church using faux missionaries is deplorable.
My great hope is that Californians will be repulsed by such a blatant
display of religious bigotry, and that they will see the true agenda
of those who claim they want free speech. Anyone who tries to equate
the free exercise of a person's political rights with home invasion
clearly has a twisted perception of the world. I hope that there is a
firestorm of condemnation - from every religious denomination - of
this raw display of intolerance. It's Mormons today, and who else
tomorrow?
... the real victim turns out to be the executioner.
There is no way in hell that the active excision of other people's rights can be defended under the umbrella of personal political rights. Ironically, the ad falls under free speech, which is indeed a right and thus protected. Ain't that a bitch jackass?
In other words, you can't be the victim when you are trying to fuck other people over. Sucks, don't it... not being able to have it both ways. Boooohoooooo...
First off, mormons aren't intrusive as they are made out to be in this ad. I view it as a desperate attack against the religion for fear of prop 8 being passed. Prop 8 is only taking the right to get married away from gays. Nothing else!! A law was passed in Massachusetts allowing gay marriage, they now teach kids in elementary schools that it is ok to be gay. If you want your children to learn that it is ok to be homosexual you can homeschool them. Being homosexual is not a natural action. If people were supposed to be faggots God would have made it so members of the same sex can reproduce with eachother. But quess what?!! They can't, which proves that homosexuals have no purpose on the earth. If prop 8 doesn't pass, and we allow people to pass stupid laws, what's next? Are we gonna tell kids that it's okay to smoke cigarettes, or that meth is a good drug? Marriage needs to stay between a man and a woman, plain and simple.
Thanks for proving everyone here right that YOU are a bigot idiot...
This is coming from a Mormon...
http://mormonsformarriage.com/ supporting marriage equality!
Don't procreate. Fritos are gross.
I would like to take a moment, as I have several times before, to offer condolences and respect for the common man, woman or child, belonging to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. While I firmly believe that couples of same sex should be allowed to have a union identically equal to marriage, I feel that the millions of good Christians, Mormons alike, who otherwise have no hatred towards homosexuals whatsoever, are now subject to undue hate due to proverbial, generalizing and misleading campaign ads such as the ad above. I do think that people who have never walked in my shoes see things from a different light, I don't believe the LDS, who have been backing 8, are doing anything other than what they feel is right... I do think that (marriage) equality will prevail in the end... But I still wanted to offer my respect for those who belong to the Mormon church and other churches as well, That I don't hate them. We have come a long way as a society in acceptance and co existence and I believe with baby steps there will be unity and love under God, Even though one man's life is solid opposite of the next.
Tristan, Gay male, Los angeles, CA
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We respect that you feel differently about this issue, but rather than respecting our differing positions, you have attempted to impose your position on all of California. That is what we are responding to and why we are fighting so hard to keep our rights that you are trying to take away.
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To say that "you respect that" prop 8 supporters differ on opinion, and then characterize the nature of their position as a lack of respect for yours is fairly transparent in it's hypocricy.
Anyone possessing some pretense of clear though and reason ought to distance themselves from this add for the sake of it's clear libelous nature.
I'm going to be very blunt here...
In this perfect Mormon world that is being legislated on the rest of us, Mormons can marry up all the women and tell the leftover men to eat holy-shit. I've lost all respect for the Mormon Church, they are a pious, pompous, idiotic, hate group.
Taking away rights of a group legitimizes bad-behavior elements within the group. -Further subjugating the entire group in the public eye.
Did they run out of witches to burn?
Sickening. I'm a redneck hetero-southerner, but I'm pissed about this major step backwards in CA, and the church that's funded it. Being gay isn't a crime.
I have started a new website www.boycottmormonbusiness.com and would like all to help in sharing mormon run business and organizations so we can get out the word that hate will not be financially supported. Once i receive some information I will post these and get going a new movement that will hopefully get some exposure. Email me at notohate@boycottmormonbusiness.com
CIRTIFICATE OF RECOGNITION
In honor and recognition of the great social contributions made by the Mormon Church to the good, pure, and white folks of America, we do hereby recognize these contributions with this citation for:
REPRESSION OF WOMAN
REPRESSION OF PEOPLE OF COLOR
MOUNTAIN MEADOW MASSACARE OF 1857
POLYGAMY
FATHFUL ACCOUNTING TO THE MOB DURING THEIR RISE TO POWER IN LAS VEGAS
WARREN JEFFS
PROPOSITION 8
We do hereby extend our heartfelt thanks…and a lifetime supply of white bread and mayonnaise. KEEP IT UP GUYS!
ENDORSED BY:
TED HAGGARD
MARK FOLEY
BRUCE BARCLAY
MATTHEW JOSEPH ELLIOTT (MITT ROMNEY AID CONVICTED OF SEXUAL EXPLOITATION OF A CHILD)
LARRY CRAIG…and other fine republicans who can be found at: http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex...
ALSO ENDORSED BY:
KKK
AMERICAN NAZI PARTY
OSAMA BIN LADEN
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