Rand Paul Opens Mouth, Puts Coal-Covered Foot In
As if Rand Paul's flippant "No one will miss a hill or two" comment wasn't egregious enough, his latest PR effort on behalf of the coal industry is even worse. In an interview with Details magazine, he makes some of the dumbest and most offensive statements I've heard yet about mountaintop removal.
See, here's what Rand Paul thinks. Seriously.
Paul believes mountaintop removal just needs a little rebranding. "I think they should name it something better," he says. "The top ends up flatter, but we're not talking about Mount Everest. We're talking about these little knobby hills that are everywhere out here. And I've seen the reclaimed lands. One of them is 800 acres, with a sports complex on it, elk roaming, covered in grass." Most people, he continues, "would say the land is of enhanced value, because now you can build on it."
Forgive my skepticism, but the dual images of a sports complex and roaming elk just don't quite mash together well. Either the elk roam or there's a ton of kids, parents and cars up there on that mountain, but I tend to doubt there's both.
Of course, Rand defends his rebranding push with this argument:
Let's let you decide what to do with your land," he says. "Really, it's a private-property issue." This is a gentler, more academic variation on a line he used the evening before, during his speech at the Harlan Center: "If you don't live here, it's none of your business.
I'm getting awfully tired of this line of thinking. It presumes that each and every one of us live in this place called the United States with no responsibility to anyone but ourselves. It minimizes the whole idea of community, and presumes that one's actions have no impact on anyone else.
The picture at the top is what those "hills" look like after the coal industry gets their hooks in it. The picture below is what Harlan, Kentucky looks like before that happens.
But he doesn't stop with mountaintop removal, either. In Rand Paul's selfish myopic little universe, the Big Branch mine incident that killed 26 miners and could have been prevented had Massey Energy actually chosen to obey the law was just an "unfortunate thing."
"Is there a certain amount of accidents and unfortunate things that do happen, no matter what the regulations are?" Paul says at the Harlan Center, in response to a question about the Big Branch disaster. "The bottom line is I'm not an expert, so don't give me the power in Washington to be making rules. You live here, and you have to work in the mines. You'd try to make good rules to protect your people here. If you don't, I'm thinking that no one will apply for those jobs. I know that doesn't sound..." Here he stumbles, trying to parse his words properly but only presaging his campaign misstep. "I want to be compassionate," he concludes, "and I'm sorry for what happened, but I wonder: Was it just an accident?"
No, Rand. It wasn't "just an accident." When it's common practice to disable methane detectors when they get in the way of production goals, and when a rush of methane gas caused that explosion, it's not "just an accident." It's an intentional act that puts profit ahead of people. It isn't just an accident.
As for the "no one will apply for those jobs", I guess Rand has forgotten about the unemployment rate in this country? There will always be someone looking for jobs, willing to put themselves at risk to feed their families, particularly in economically depressed areas. Those areas, coincidentally, seem to be prevalent in coal-mining areas. Gosh, I wonder why...
Fact: Rand Paul is Big Coal's bitch, which squares with their promise to buy Congressional candidates in their states.
Profits mean far more than people. Profits mean more than everything in Rand Paul's world. And Big Coal will welcome their special bought-and-paid-for teabagger Rand, unless we can defeat him.
Jack Conway, Rand Paul's opposition, is endorsed by Blue America. More that almost any other candidate, I am hoping we can join together and send Jack to Washington while leaving Rand in the coal dust.
Please support Jack Conway over on our Blue America '10 page.
The idiot meant the Elks Lodge...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Because if he really believes what he says ("Let's let you decide what to do with your land," he says. "Really, it's a private-property issue." ), then someone should move next door and start digging a giant hole, or setting up a sound stage, or grazing buffalo or something equally as neighborly.
Idiot.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
They're both noisy smelly animals.
And then butcher them on site, and leave the offal lying around as a sacrifice to the God(s) you believe in.
Hey, Rand, it's MY property!
in a pinch, you can barter them for medical services!
"I could give a flying crap about the political process.... We're an entertainment company."
- Glenn Beck - Forbes interview; April 26, 2010
Or barter them with a barber...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
But of course that's the very nature of environmental classism.. the people who do this stuff don't live or play where they are polluting.. Tony Hayworth's probably never sailed the Redneck Riviera- he naturally prefers some place with decent environmental protections.
Start raising fighting cocks. LOTS of them. About three or four hundred. Start a big cock-fighting ranch. Right next door. Watch him lose his mind. Those suckers are fucking LOUD.
Let's see him yammer about "private property rights" then.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
And private property rights is what shaped the decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. (19 How.) 393 (1857), plunging the country into bloody Civil War for four years.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
But it was a noble war.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
As in all wars the dead and maimed.But then again few wingnuts know much about that so it's no consideration.
is now a 4x4 off-road adventure theme park surrounded by scenic vistas
Rand - "If you don't live here, it's none of your business."
Good thing I live in the UNITED States of America, where we are all AMERICANS LIVING here, it's 110% my fucking business. Nobody likes blowing up mountains, GROW THE FUCK UP.
It will be nicer after the trees grow back!
I predict that with a little more work, it will look like Macchu Picchu in 50 years.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ww...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
50 million years.
I'm getting awfully tired of this line of thinking. It presumes that each and every one of us live in this place called the United States with no responsibility to anyone but ourselves.
This Rand is your Rand...this Rand is my Rand...THIS Rand was made for you and meeeeeee.....
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
"We got a thousand points of light, for the homeless man"
"We got a kinder, gentler machine gun Rand."
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
So that makes him a liar.
No. It makes him qualified to write safety reports for BP.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
there has been an effort to repop. elk into the mountains. i think it includes ky.
there's a funny story about that. this hillbilly poaches a deer and is bragging to his buddies that he had to shoot it even without a licence cause it was the biggest damn deer he had ever seen! dude was in twice as much trouble for shooting an elk.
the security this website has for registration is goofy.
want to tell the KY fish and wildlife people that. They seem to think there are about 5000 there. Heck they are even having a hunting season for them this year.
http://www.rmefnky.org/kyelkherd.HTML
Until there is leadership that uses the word CONSERVATION instead of GROWTH, we will get nowhere.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
growth for its own sake, a state of affairs where growth occurs for no reason other than growth: cancer.
That describes the human race in general. Want to end all this environmental devastation once and for all? Get rid of us fucking humans. Every last one. Then and only then will the planet get some peace and a chance to recover.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
themselves with jobs should they. Now is not the time to be talking about growth.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
restoring the environment?
for an economy but I'm not sure it's sustainable.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
You write that without the slightest trace of irony.
At least that I can detect, and my irony detectors are well polished.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
Aside from the fact that I'm not sure exactly what the job description of restoring the environment covers, you do actually have to make and grow things to have an economy.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Perhaps this?
http://www.passivehouse.us/passiveHouse/Passi...
Be as you wish to seem
He is irredeemable. This is just one example and demonstration of sociopathic thinking.
Gee, sounds like these flattop mountains are glorious. Why don't we have Rand live on one, so he can show how much he appreciates them?
None of us own property rights to the Gulf of Mexico. We apparently have no right to be upset by what happens there.
..Or anywhere, for that matter! Free market. Those who own a piece of the Earth can stomp that piece of Earth into dust.
Ugh. I'll just stop beating around the bush and say "screw you, Rand Paul."
Try over a Thousand Mountains Gone forever. What an Idiot he is!
I invite Rand....and anyone else that wants to be depressed....to come to West Virginia and see what the devastation of Mountain Top removal does to the land, the environment, and the people. It's literally heartbreaking.
Hey Rand....FYYFF
all it takes is all of us
Just like it's nobody else's business if I decide to flush my used motor oil down the toilet instead of taking it to a proper disposal facility... since it is MY oil and MY toilet, no one else should have a say-so!
It's a simple property rights issue.
Does Rand Paul's ideas include going back to roads becoming toll roads? Can you imagine stopping every 50 to 100 feet and paying a toll so that you can get to the grocery store? Hey, it's a private property issue.
But of course if you have three pot plants, well that's grounds for confiscation of the guilty property under forfeiture laws, aww, the beauty of libertarian doublethink
Being fed up with the Senate’s inability to pass legislation because almost half of the elected Senators are either obstructionists or idiots is not reason to nominate another one for the office and think that things will improve if he’s elected.
remain in elected office? I fear we could have another life long politician in Rand. If he's this stupid, what does it say about the population that voted for him?
Take a look, folks...
Rand Paul, poster boy of the Grand Old Party.
Not the Tea Party, the Libertarian Party, or the Constitution Party. Those are just distractions. This man and his views are the heart of the Republican Party.
He and his compatriots all across the country (Sharron Angle, JD Hayworth, etc.) are the new breed. They're trying to push America into a feudal society.
I call it the Cappuccino Effect: White on the top with the brown on the bottom supporting it.
Fox news declared us the enemy. Teabaggers are the (moronic) front line (as in 'cannon fodder').
I'm all for drilling and sucking every ounce of oil.....out of Texas.
I'm all for leveling mountains to get the resources out.....in Alaska.
this nation has become so screwed up. no wonder backwoods, cave dwelling, rag wearing third world countries are hating and attacking us, the GOP, Fox News and TeaBag Nation are too busy hating US.
looks like the 9/11 attacks did exactly what Bin Hidin planned.
Rand Paul must be a twin separated at birth from Tony Hayward.
free to screw the "little people", and the environment, at every turn.
this raises some interesting issues. The coal industry does actually pursue profits but then so does everybody who goes to work for a paycheck. Is it the miners themselves that are evil or only the management and stockholders of these operations? They sure aren't pretty things are they, open pit mines? But they are much safer. All the regulations in the world, strictly enforced, won't stop underground mining disasters. There will still be collapses and explosions when pockets of methane are hit. How many dead (and the devastated families that go with them) are a fair price to pay for eliminating mountain top removal as a method of extraction?
Now you could, of course, be really ideologically pure, and suggest that coal mining be banned entirely. I could respect that but you'd still have to deal with the consequences and there are many. What for example, are you planning on using to make steel? How are you going to replace the massive amount of base load generating capacity that coal generates? What will you use to replace the coal tar extracts as a raw material in other manufacturing processes. What will you do with the masses of unemployed in areas where there is literally no industrial alternative?
Hasa Diga Eebowai
You want us to consider the results of changing the status quo yet Rand Paul is not about the status quo but the expansion of priviledge.
I agree we all have degrees of responsibility for the status quo- including local communities- especially our leadership which to my mind should be agressively exploring alternatives to present energy sources and needs.
I may be addicted to Big Macs and fearful and violent at the thought of losing my 'food' but if I've considered what's in a Big Mac and know there are more healthful alternatives and I have time to adjust- then I don't care nearly as much and may in fact look forward to getting rid of the nasty burger.
"I'm getting awfully tired of this line of thinking. It presumes that each and every one of us live in this place called the United States with no responsibility to anyone but ourselves. It minimizes the whole idea of community, and presumes that one's actions have no impact on anyone else." I think this is a very fundamental truth. One has to consider, when you look at an issue like this, what the impact on whole communities of people will be. Sure you can justify banning a practice that a majority may find objectionable. Just be aware that others will be paying a very high price indeed.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Baloney. Companies pursue profits, workers pursue paychecks.
they must be evil mustn't they? That companies pursue profits is not objectionable any more than a worker exchanging his labor for something he values more. It's the how that matters.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
it's not the profits, it's the size of the profits from an industry that should be treated as a public utility.
the coal slurries are destroying entire watersheds, poisoning peoples water, and then they are offered a pittance for a place that may have been in the family for a hundred years.
if we are to do this, because we want to keep the lights on, landowners need to be justly compensated, and a true environmental remediation system must be set up; all of this will mean less profits, that is what this is about.
Who'd have imagined it could happen? Your last paragraph is spot on. That is exactly what must be done. At a minimum.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
This is the same clown who decided to make up his own national opthalmology board when he got pissy with the real one. This guy is a charlatan who thinks the rules for the rest of us don't apply to him.
He was named after Ayn Rand, The must have read "Atlas Shrugged" to him in the womb.
I belong to no organized political party -- I am a Democrat.
--Will Rogers
and watching this guy self destruct.
i almost wish i was still living in ky so i could follow the fireworks more closely.
after i leave here i'm going to the lex and louis. papers to see how it's going, wonder if i can get to the 'letter to the ed'?
heck the repubs and industrialists have even verbally attacked ashley judd...hometown sweetheart. guess they didn't know she was a republican herself, course maybe not so much now.
oh and ppl in the appalachians don't consider their mountains to be little bumps. what they are are very ancient mountains. sort of loved even more because they are still there after soo long. and here comes massey and grindes them to sad dust. But HEY! looky a parking lot! YAY!
the security this website has for registration is goofy.
No, he's more than that. He's Big Coal's and Wall Street's bouncing, squeaky, Vaseline-smeared love doll. What a nakedly corrupt douchebag. He's not even trying at this point.
Why his campaign people are still allowing him to utter anything this close to election day is beyond me.
JP
http://giveusthisdayourdailtydread.blogspot.com
I'm pretty sure property issues are a lot more nuanced than you people are able to, or choose to, understand. The assumption that your government is going to protect your environment is about as sane as your assumption that your government is going to act in a noble way in the Mid East, or protect you from unethical businessmen, or not torture and murder innocents to advance the agendas of those in control. In short, you people are ludicrous.
Rand Paul may not articulate it very well, or maybe there's no way to explain certain ideas to people whose knowledge of politics and power can be contained on a bumper sticker or two.
With property rigihts, as with everything else, you can choose between fragmented power--a situation where a few people inevitably will do things you disapprove of--or massive, centralized power--a situation where a panel of "experts," whose strings are pulled by pressure groups, will come up with usually asinine and destructive policies that will then be enforced universally, at gunpoint.
What we're living under is the latter. From Hiroshima to banker bailouts to the BP oil spill--all the result, you'll remember, of the wisdom of government experts, and the effectiveness of government regulation and oversight.
Here's hoping you self-described liberals will develop the courage to confront the amazing list of horrors you create through your mindless faith in the power of bureaucracy.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
...through our mindless faith in the power of bureaucracy? Where did you get that? OK, listen up, Bub, and I'll try to type slowly so you can follow:
The "amazing list of horrors" that have emerged through "our mindless faith in the power of bureaucracy" gave us the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts. The EPA. OSHA. The FDA and USDA. You know, organizations that were built to totally devote themselves to making your life as miserable and as dangerous as possible.
Without the horrors of bureaucracy, we have happy puppy sunshine times like the BP oil spill, the explosion in Texas, the pollution of all of Anniston, Alabama and the Wall Street meltdown that was averted by we the taxpayers.
JP
http://giveusthisdayourdailtydread.blogspot.com
Didn't you just make my point? Didn't you just outline the failure of the those organizations by listing disasters that took place under conditions they mastermind and strictly enforce?
This is sort of like, yes, my government's butchering families in the Mid East, bankrupting the country, creating terrorists, but what would happen without them in control?
I know it's quite a leap to imagine that people can negotiate with each and solve problems themselves. And that the worst people in society will always end up in control of government.
I think we can condense your statement into a bumper sticker: "My government: It only beats me because it loves me."
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
The Wall Street meltdown. Do I need to bother? I encourage you to study money, where it comes from, how it works, and how it can be manipulated. There is no better illustration of the how corrupt and obscene government power can become than our money system. Your voice is ultimately your tax dollars. Government can't buy a pencil without funding. When money is created from people's imaginations, instead of having to be extracted from you, by force, you have no more say in government policy. Zero. You're nothing. All they need to do is keep you distracted and ignorant, which they've obviously been very effective at.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
And bureaucracy was in large part the creation of Max Weber, when before the political system was primarily nepotism and spoils.
At least with a bureaucracy you presumably passed a Civil Service exam.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I know this much be too much of a complex argument for you to fathom, but here's also a long tradition of Nuisance Real Estate in the Common Law, going back as far as the Saxons. If you move next door to a hog rendering plant, and then find it offensive, you can't complain, but you can if you moved there first, and then someone wants to open a rendering plant.
In this case, it would be run-off from the mountaintop, and the possibility of river polution from that run-off, as well as noise and the possibility of any danger.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
the jurisdiction where I live overturned this very old common law rule. It was rather stupid to do so. The gentrification of the countryside put a whole lot of wealthy and well connected people at odds with the farming community. The law was so written that if you didn't like the smells emanating from the hog farm next door to your new country mansion you could make that farmer pay through the nose or even shut down regardless of how many generations they had been there before you. Very little hilarity ensued.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
And these situations can be argued in the courts. Maybe your side wins, maybe not. Maybe your side is ultimately proven wrong, because instead of monolithic policies, you get numerous attempts, by individuals, to find the most practical approach. How about with BP? Federal oversight and regulation from the word go. Government experts calling the shots. Private interests, except those controlling government policy, were excluded from the process. How'd that work out?
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
http://www.epa.gov/oem/content/lawsregs/opaov...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
regulatory processes do you? Governments employ directly virtually no technical experts. That's not how regulations evolve. Governments usually seek outside advice and input from various organizations,(like ASME), including the industries affected when establishing best practices and regulatory structure. There are always conflicting interests. It is never possible to foresee all eventualities but usually when disaster befalls better and stronger regulations result. You're kidding yourself if you think industries don't have very strong influence when it comes to writing regulations.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
in the way you think. Who are these government experts? Surprise! They are almost all INDUSTRY-sourced executives. That's the GOP way of goverment regulation. Gut the funds, staff with insiders, look the other way when violations are commited, then point to government oversight as a failure, thus fueling more political fervor to remove oversight entirely. Then add the lobbyists and it's no wonder our agencies can't function. SEC, EPA, FDA, MMS, etc. etc. etc. All of them usurped by money.
Never forget that the GOP is holding up to this day, hundreds of agency appointments to cripple Obama's ability to correct these problems.
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum. -Havelock Ellis
I didn't have time to mention this earlier, but the bp platform that's leaking was erected in 2001, the same year as chaniney's classified meeting with his energy PACS.
And then in the 8 years that followed regulatory agencies were underfunded and undermanned.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Troll
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
"You People"???
Am I to assume that your statement means that you ain't no "people?" How long you been around? Did you just recently beam down? Because if that's true...
You are right about Paul not "articulating it well." But that's mostly because he's typical of that Libertarian/Objectivist ilk
Most of the Libertarians and Objectivists I’ve met are Quasi or Pseudo Intellectual, Xenophobic, Selfish, Self-Centered Anti-Community weirdoes... probably afflicted by some sociopathic form of Aspergers Syndrome leaving them with little or no ability for Compassion.
Their Non-Ideology is mostly abstract buzzwords, phrases and jingo.
Being a Libertarian gives ideological license to being a greedy bastard. It’s a pseudo-ideology that pretends to have depth. It probably works fine if you live alone in a hole.
.
~albabe (The Writer/Artist Formally Known As Al Gordon)
http://www.comicon.com/gordon/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gordon
Great! That's all we need. Another fuckin shrub to mangle the english language
And what's this bullshit "You People" Robert Fuller? WTF does that mean? Oh yeah, we're all the same. We all eat the same food. Think the same thoughts. And piss the same beer. WTF does that mean, You People?
Horrors? Are you fricken serious?
Nevermind. You are beyond reaching. And even if someone could, you wouldn't know what to do with the information. You've already got your preconceived notions of what makes us Democratic/Liberal/Progressive.
Yeah, I know. That went right over your head.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
The people of Kentucky were stupid enough to elect Jim Bunning. Now, if they are equally stupid enough to elect Rand Paul, well, they deserve him. It is like Maya Angelou said "When someone shows you who and what he is, listen." He hasn't shut up since the primary. Listen Kentucky.
Robert Fuller:
"Strictly enforced?"
Ha ha ha ha. Regulatory agencies have been defanged starting at least with Saint Ronnie the Dim. Regulations unfortunately mean nothing without enforcement. It is silly to blame disasters on the existence of regulations, and regulatory agencies, when there is little to no inspection and even less consequence for violations.
The agencies are not a problem. Lack of enforcement is. In two recent, horrible examples, BP and Massey, loss of life and environmental destruction would have been avoided if they had been forced to abide by the rules.
why weren't they enforced? You're paying quite a lot of money for this service, to protect your environment, and what are you getting for it? Why not let people keep their money, or give it *willingly* to activist organizations dedicated to challenging environmental hazards? If regulatory agencies have been defanged, then my point is once again made. The government is utterly ineffective in terms of its ability to serve the public. But it can enforce, through violence, the will of those who can weasel into right positions.
You would be better off without these organizations, since you've just explained that they give us a false sense of security, and therefore actually make the problem worse.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
Government is incompetent and every time they get their hands on the controls they set out to prove it by appointing idiots to responsible positions.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
because nasty America hating scum went and helped but some of the worst criminals of the second half of the 20th century into America's White House. Reagan, Bush and Bush and their administrations did an excellent job of gutting regulatory agencies set up to protect Americans.
It presumes that each and every one of us live in this place called the United States with no responsibility to anyone but ourselves.
Well, yeah. It's called "libertarianism". It's the essence of what these dingbats jabber on about. Every man for himself and screw you, I've got mine, Jack. Community? That's for pinko suckers.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
next door to Rand Paul? I want to buy it, exercise my property rights and put up a giant billboard facing his property.
It will read: FUCK YOU RAND PAUL YOU STUPID ASS!
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum. -Havelock Ellis
Not surprisingly, your billboard would demonstrate your ignorance by both its sloppy punctuation and its inane message. Try "Fuck you Rand Paul,[comma] you stupid ass!" I mean, if you have to try something.
Or you could try studying the essential role of property rights in a free society. You could also try thinking about the record of the people you think are going to save you, the federal government--the same organization, I say again, killing families in the Mid East, destroying working people's lives through manipulation of the currency, spying, torturing, assassinating, etc., etc., etc.
The purpose of Crooks and Liars is to keep small-minded individuals thinking in terms of the left vs. right garbage they've been trained to respond to.
that Rand Paul would vote against the mid-East war crimes rather then vote for them and for escalating the phony "war on terror" by invading Iran and/or Pakistan. Sorry but I'd bet my last dollar that he would indeed vote for those things when his corporate MIC masters told him to.
I suggest you open some law books on the subject.
Coal is a part of interstate commerce, since it will be dug in one state, and sold to other states including overseas.
So that means Congress has the power to regulate under Article I, Sec 8, cl 3.
http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/Commerce_Cl...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
wouldn't mind if someone bought every single piece of property bordering his and put in factory pig and chicken farms. And a metal stamping plant on the property closed to this Rand Paul's house.
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