The Texas textbook two-step
Meet the graduating Texas senior class of 2020 and beyond. This group of students has some unique identifying characteristics, products of an education based upon textbooks crafted with an agenda. If you were to test them on their knowledge, here's what you'd discover:
- They don't know who Thomas Jefferson is and why he's significant, but they do know who John Calvin is and believe he was instrumental to the formation of our nation.
- They believe the terms church and state are interchangeable.
- They do not believe in evolution as fact, but are inclined to embrace creation theory or intelligent design as the explanation for how the universe came into existence.
- They believe the right to bear arms is a first AND second amendment right granted by the Constitution. (see 11:12 entry)
- They do not understand the term "democracy", but can define "constitutional Republic" and apply it to the American system of government.
- They don't know that the United States Constitution bans placing one religion over others.
- They can name at least three pro-free market factors contributing to European progress in medieval times. (Yes, I'm serious. Read the 6:43 pm entry)
- They cannot define capitalism, but are completely familiar with the idea that taxation and government regulation inhibits free enterprise.
- They ignore Hispanics and their role in various historical events in the United States, such as the Alamo.
What we have here, folks, is a vast right-wing conspiracy. In his now-famous memo written to the US Chamber of Commerce in 1974, Lewis Powell set forth a road map for conservative domination of the political landscape. 36 years later, it bears fruit. The Texas School Board rewrites of social studies and economics textbooks is simply another stepping-stone to the greater goal. From the Powell memo:
The staff of scholars (or preferably a panel of independent scholars) should evaluate social science textbooks, especially in economics, political science and sociology. This should be a continuing program.
and this:
The objective of such evaluation should be oriented toward restoring the balance essential to genuine academic freedom. This would include assurance of fair and factual treatment of our system of government and our enterprise system, its accomplishments, its basic relationship to individual rights and freedoms, and comparisons with the systems of socialism, fascism and communism. Most of the existing textbooks have some sort of comparisons, but many are superficial, biased and unfair.
To restate that last paragraph more clearly, the objective of such evaluation should be an effort to rewrite the history books to selectively include terms, analyses and explanations which favor conservative values and encourage commercial interests.
The biggest myth conservatives continue to perpetuate is this idea of business as champion of 'individual rights and freedoms.' Nowhere is it more obvious than these blatant rewrites of Texas social studies and history textbooks. Rather than present all facts, events, and people of a time, they only choose those which indoctrinate students with a conservative narrative.
Liberty granted by conservatives is no liberty at all. Their cynical viewpoint assumes inability on the part of most citizens to think critically about the role of people, places, things, business and invention in the context of history in order to form their own conclusion. Instead they co-opt the religious right and use culture wars to invent a fiction to spoon-feed to our children.
Still, in all the reports I've seen about this, there's a certain derision from the left that sends danger signals off in me. Laugh at the Texas School Board at your own peril. They have just succeeded in approving a statewide curriculum indoctrinating students, educating them on a single point of view, and threatening our national curriculum in far too many ways. To shrug them off or paint them as buffoons misses their larger, and largely successful, plan.
From The Nation:
So progressives could be forgiven for branding the right as stupid and crazy. But they would also be wrong. For if this is madness, there is great method in it. It is well organized and well funded. It has proven effective in mobilizing support, creating "controversy" where little exists and disrupting and disorienting whatever national conversation there is. If it is stupid, then what does it say about us, since time and again it manages to outmaneuver the left?
It's really time to, in their words, "take back our country."
[Note: Judy Jennings and Rebeca Bell-Metereau oppose these changes and are running for the Texas State Board of Education. They deserve our support.]
"Why leave idiocy to chance?"
I believe the proper response to that is an exerpt from Margaret Chase Smith's "Declaration of Conscience"(1950):
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
but a true robot.
"Let's talk dirty to the animals"
Somehow knows how to type, but has no analytical skills.
We dont ned no stinkin texbuks we gots ar guns and cowboy hatz.
Dontcha have to be able to READ to peruse a textbook? After all, we are talkin' Texas here... are we not?
Show me the yellow cake.
meth widd Tejas, y'all.
have you seen the movie "Idiocracy"? I know it takes place hundreds of years in the future but texas is definitely going at light speed. Well i guess it will be "Idiocracy" with a religious twist.
When will people wake up and smell the feces generating from the right wing? This is not a Texas problem, it's a problem that we have to face from the American right wing crazies. It's a national virus that's spreading everywhere, and now it's spread to include public schools.
If you think this is only a Texas problem, you're in for a rude awakening.
Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.
Thomas Jefferson
Like the last time I fell asleep during the pledge...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The Ignorati who control the Texas school board are selecting the state, in a very Darwinian sense, for failure.
THIS is one of the biggest reasons we as a nation are in turmoil today.. Children in texas and, by the sheer numbers, all American children to a lesser extent, in other communities are force-fed this breath-taking lunacy on a daily basis as if it were fact and POOF! Instant bigotry, hatred and blatant racism.. The fundamental's of reality are cast further and further away.
This is clearly an INTENTIONAL crime against ALL American children. If these right-wing NUTBAGS want to take the country back, they can begin by stopping the instruction of our children with pure propaganda. But since it follows their pee-bag agenda I fear this may never happen!!
Eventually, the students will grow up and vote.
"And how can we ever again succeed in educating children to become moral men and women if, in America's public schools, we consciously deny them all religious instruction, and deny them access to that primary source of morality, God's own word. The Bible is the one book from which they are expressly not allowed to be taught."
[US Presidential candidate Pat Buchanan, "The City and The Crusade", Commencement Address for Christendom College, May 6, 1996]
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Lets' declare this Sociopathic Authoritarian behavior a disorder.
They need help.
http://www.change.org/actions/view/authoritar...
genuine academic freedom."
Translated: Gotta put in enough lies to balance out those pesky facts that people keep spouting.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
You ever see a post-apocalyptic or dystopian movie and think "I wonder how things got to this point in this universe? Where did shit go wrong for these people in such a way that now they can't have kids anymore, or they ran out of water or they're slaves to mole men from Jupiter or whatever?" Well, if any of us are unfortunate enough to survive five minutes into the future in this rotted corn husk of a society we live in we won't really need to ask, because now we know.
http://putthatshitonthelist.blogspot.com/2010...
•"Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought?... Has it ever occurred to your, Winston, that by the year 2050, at the very latest, not a single human being will be alive who could understand such a conversation as we are having now?... The whole climate of thought will be different. In fact, there will be no thought, as we understand it now. Orthodoxy means not thinking—not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness."
- George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 5
•"Till at last the child's mind is these suggestions, and the sum of the suggestions is the child's mind. And not the child's mind only. The adult's mind too-all his life long. The mind that judges and desire and decides-made up of these suggestions. But all these suggestions are our suggestions... Suggestions from the State."
- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, Ch. 2
or some combination thereof?
and go straight to Farenheit 451.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cQ-yGCyjyM
My favorite from the period
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-aTzmbtnjw&fe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aSFoY3W3NM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au9_vfx6t6c&fe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9jD2kk9JRg
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
is the book "Lies My Teacher Told Me"
It's all about biases and untruths put into textbooks and the various reason why.
It covers politcal agendas such as this.
I think it was a revised edition. Amazing how much we "choose" not to include in our history books.
Lord of the Flies, their adult years.
Or Somalia.
They are selecting themselves to fail as a society/community. By the time process is complete, Texas will be the state that is the brunt of all jokes about backwoods idiocy and the norm. It will be a place to get out of intead of move to. A dead end.
Isn't it interesting that supposed conservatives always claim that schools should be run by their communities? That local control of schools is paramount to educating children? Yet, in the most conservative states, we find state boards of education that dictate to the local schools.
Texas, Arizona, Kansas, etc.................
Here in Arizona its a real fucked up mess, because the state legislature likes to get personally involved in school curricula and we have a State Superintendent of Schools who is more interested in destroying public education and running for Attorney General than building up public education and obeying the speed limit in school zones.
Save us from these conservative heathens!
Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!
www.PhoenixJustice.com
. . . the Kansas State Board of Education has no real power except to embarrass the state every time conservatives get the majority, thus enraging everyone else in Kansas and depriving them of their majority next election, followed by a period of apathy until conservatives get another majority and once again say something non-binding but stupid to rile up the rest of the state again and start the process anew.
Is there a way to have the DOE review textbooks instead of regional and state systems?
Since one large state like Texas can influence what included in texts across the countries, I think there's a legitimate legal interest in doing so.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Now that I think of it the problem whether national or regional is the politication of the system..
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
which is a much bigger market, says no only no but hell no to the book publishers? And if New York joins in, and a few others, that would pretty much wrap it up for Texas' ability to influence the publishers.
What are they going to do just go without text books? There are only a couple of vendors that sell these. Also, the process for reviewing and selecting text books is unique to each state and your stereotypical amazingly inefficient bueracracy. I don't think its at all practical to expect CA to start telling the text book vendors what they can do in Texas. The culture of these state education bureacracies is very much to view their state as unique and different from everybody else.
When I read this account, I was reminded of how the Nazi's came to power, and posted a response to that effect by a concentration camp survivor, with the hope that history may be averted. See http://www.cmtj.org/blog/archives/863
applies to Texas education. Where are the posters from Austin who defend the great state of Texas everytime I say something negative about it? I think you've got your work cut out for you.
The state of Texas and it's current government want to prove me wrong every time I try defending it from regional bashing. It's determined to be the most idiotic evil state in the Union. Every state has it's RW whackos, but being Texas, we're determined to have the best (read worst) ones ever. Sigh...no more defending it from me until it comes to it's senses, if ever. That said, who will accept homeless refugees?
.
Whenever your state does something to enhance its reputation as a anti-progressive backwater, hillbilly heaven, fascist paradise, uneducated cow pasture, uncultured cesspool, or whatever, do what I do.
Sit back, and remember there's at least one state with less education or cultural spending, where racist redneck attitudes are more extreme, where citizens have fewer teeth per capita . . . and then say: "Thanks, Mississippi!"
Unless you live in Mississippi, in which case you really are screwed, sorry.
Anyone else notice that Haley Barbour is on the GOP's short list for next presidential race?
If you want a real shock, check out genealogical websites re any GOP (or one Dem) presidential candidate. Sooner or later, you end up in Mississippi. Whence hailed the Bush tribe...Mississippi small towns are largely the descendants of slaves, standing around burn barrels in small towns full of vacant business properties, where they wait and hope that the soybean farmers will pull up to their personal 55 gallon drum and give them some day work.
Middle-class America, this can happen to you, and is growing more likely with each passing day of the recession.
.
A small group of bigots in one large state now have the right to indoctrinate moat of the rest of the children in the country. And it's all under the radar for the general public.
Maybe a majority vote of state text reviews are in order.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
so agree Slideguy...extremely frightening!!
Each state gets two votes in a text election organized at the state text review boards, and federal level (perhaps under the aegis of the DOE), and the first past the post gets approved for National Usage, thus minimizing the chance for political interference.
Of course waddya I know, I wuz educated in Texas.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I'm also drunk and splitting my attention between here and watching the Simpsons, laundering my unmentionables, and cooking my fish and chips.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Well ys, at least you're not cooking your unmentionables and laundering your fish and chips.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
There not done yet...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
just curious.
Yes...
Darn you...darn you to heck
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Are there any online textbook sites currently that can counteract this? I am wondering if the Internet makes this a bit less potent or is this one last push for the last printing before everything goes online?
Surely there is a book publisher somewhere that would be able to print a more factual textbook.....aren't people able to self-publish now? Hasn't it become a bit more affordable to do so?
This Texas board seems like a vestige of days gone by......decades ago. Like a crusty old, cobwebby group of people.
It's frightening......and I don't think that they are ignorant. I think that they are stating these things knowing that they are false. It's destructive and they really don't seem to get that we live in a globalized society now and that we have to be competitive w/ other countries that actually have better school systems than we do. Who is anti-American now?
My thought is that the same textbook companies also publish college and professional school textbooks and judging by how much I spent on textbooks in college, they get a fair chunk of money from people in college. I would love it if someone publicizes which textbook companies are giving into turning public education into propaganda and college professors and students boycott them.
Surely there is a book publisher somewhere that would be able to print a more factual textbook.....
The problem is with the word "factual." I can tell you that in my state of SC, education is not about facts. We are living with the aftermath of the War of Northern Aggression and the current invasion of Yankee retirees. The "facts" of who sweated to create and maintain the Southern vision of moonlight and magnolias are not accepted. The "fact" that we now have zero women in the state legislature is irrelevant.
So there will be no market in SC and in any number of similarly backward states for a more "factual" textbook.
able to print a more factual textbook.....'
"more factual".....isn't that like "a little bit pregnant"?
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
I consulted for one of the two main companies that develops standardized tests (not text books but a lot of the same issues apply) and it was quite interesting. The people who do the work of creating the tests are mostly people who really care about education such as ex- teachers. The people at the top of course care about money. Currently the states control all the standards for text books and testing.
The amount of waste was just incredible. Rather than have one standardized set of tests for the whole country there are 50 different sets of tests. The people developing and maintaining the tests recognize how ridiculous that is. But the people at the top love it since essentially they can take the same product and re-package it. A lot of money could be saved by just eliminating or greatly reducing the redundant bureacracies in each of the states that oversees the development of tests and the selection of books.
But the state bureacracies would fight that because it would diminish their power. Also, the book/test vendors won't like it because it would eliminate their cash cow. And finally I can just imagine the uproar from the right about Obama trying to force communist-nazi standards across all the states.
Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire and Rhode Island have moved to a regional standardized test for third- to eighth-graders.
New England Common Assessment Program.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
"Yet it’s clear that most board members don’t even know who Romero was. (One board member: “He didn’t have his own movie like the others.” He then corrected himself because, of course, there was a major movie about Salvadoran archbishop who was assassinated in the 1980s."
Jesus! (bangs head on desk). Please, please, can we give TexASS back to Mexico?
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
Perhaps we could let them secede and become a small weird island country where old conservatives go to die.
new progressive slogan. Tx wants to be an island.
grab a spade!
Sun, 03/14/2010 - 17:56 — VJBinCT
________________________________________
I think that's illegal in Texas...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
but funny).
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
...can we please build a "Berlin Wall" along the border?
(More likely, they'd build it to keep us out.)
Good idea Rick! If we convince them that, after Texas secedes, hordes of Californians and New Yorkers will be trying to enter their "country" illegally - they'll be more than willing to build the wall for us - free of charge!
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
We let them secede, but all the Army, Navy, and Air Force bases (you know, the real pillars of Texas "free market" economy) stay with the U.S.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
Then they would be begging for foreign aid.
To qualify for that, they'd have to change their name to New Israel.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
are allowed to compete in football competition--or are the games allowed to be televised. THAT'LL get 'em!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Paraguay Island.
Maybe they will become their own country and all the sane people in Texas will leave and all the insane right wing assholes will go there to live. Can you imagine what that country would be like? I think the first thing they would do would be to legalize slavery...
and you cant give them there own country from where they can build upon. I just know that if they try they would end up conquering neighboring states, then we would be force to fight back and be back to where we started from.
Texas' neighboring states are (IIRC) Oklahoma and Kansas. Hell, if they wanna secede, will throw those two other jerkwater states in to sweeten the deal.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
That's all I'm gonna say, Gene.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Many apologies if you're from either of the aforementioned states, Andy!
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
But, though it's close, Kansas doesn't border Texas, and the former has actually been doing a good job of getting it's conservative crazies out of public offices for the last few years. I think Kansans realized that their state Republican Party had moved far to the right since the days of moderate Bob Dole.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Kansas really does have three political parties: Democrats, Conservative Republicans and Moderate Republicans. Whenever you listen to the local news about Kansas politics, politicians are identified by party this way. It's been thus since they days of Kerry ("State Reptile") Patrick.
Texas is bordered on the west by New Mexico, the north by Oklahoma, the northeast (very briefly) by Arkansas, and the east by Louisiana.
And if Texas goes, the South will follow which will end in Balkanization (registered trademark) of the entire continent. Like dominoes. I'm not sure how I feel about my home changing from the United States of America to the Republic of Cascadia.
"What's the Matter with Kansas." Very revealing.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
... it's called Wal-Mart.
CaliforniaMike blogs at All Voices and at his own blogs, http://www.mikerappaport.net/onevoice and at http://oneminutewithmike.blogspot.com.
The Judicial Branch of government has become a shell of its former self. Only a coward would put ideology before country; a coward that answers to lock step partisan leanings, instead of what is good for the nation. Evicerating the Constitution will become necessary if the Texas actions are too stand; I mean Calvin, REALLY! What American from Texas or otherwise, is going to let a cult like restructuring of American history that we discard Thomas Jefferson; again, I mean Thomas F'ing Jefferson, REALLY?!~*^$
Somebody, some group, some blog grassroot movement, anybody; has to sue these small "c" christian fanatics.
they also think that christ was a blue eyed European, instead of a person of middle eastern extraction.
never mind that a study just came out that over fifty percent of high school grads, who go onto college need remedial math and english....
http://static.open.salon.com/files/jesus12306...
http://xristocharis.files.wordpress.com/2009/...
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hHB8ERf77jE/SRb_fIc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3mFBh2z9sc
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I believe I heard something about "American exceptionalism", where Americans are “a chosen people, divinely ordained to lead the world to betterment...”, in other words, indoctrinating the students into accepting nation building.
I don't know if it made it into the final version.
one of the most exceptional thinkers involved in the nation's founding. Thomas Jefferson, wiped out of the history books in favor of John Calvin. Why? Because Jefferson had the nerve to argue for separation of church and state. Yea, verily.
He also wrote his own version of the Bible. Say what you will about Tommy J - he was definitely an intellectual heavyweight.
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
I'm not sure businesses in "Baja Oklahoma" will have it easy recruiting top people if the schools are determined to be second, or third, rate.
Silly, silly California liberal-the offspring of the blessed Texas business men do not attend public school.
They would scoff at the very idea, bless your heart. ;o}
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
The weird and perhaps pathetic thing here is that I could almost hear your voice saying that. Especially the "bless your heart" part.
“a chosen people, divinely ordained to lead the world to betterment...”
That's just a kinder, gentler version of "We are the master race"
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
I always thunk it funny that World War II had the master race, the people of the covenant, and the messianic nation fighting each other.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Look out, here comes the master race!"
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
At least my Political Science education hasn't gone to waste
Black's Legal Dictionary is a great roach killer.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Ah but does it make a good roach clip?? Inquiring minds want to know, ys!
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
for fox news to cover this shocking story of a school indoctrinating our students...
thanks for the laugh on that one. :)
Not only does Texas ignore Hispanics, it arrests, tries and executes, without the benefit of Mexican consul, Mexican citizens who's very citizenship gives them the right not to be executed.
has always appeared to the rest of the world...to be rather incurious about much of what goes on outside of their borders.
Most of us 'out there' know that there are many Americans who do not fit this description...however, too many of us have met too many who clearly prefer maintaining a state of tunnel vision.
What has happened in the state of Texas is beyond belief. To allow any 'personal beliefs', regardless of what they are or from whom they come...to override the free flow of facts & opinions & analysis & discussion within the educational system negates the very freedoms that your founding fathers set forth for your country.
The tentacles of the faith-based rich & powerful are moving over politics & the economy unchecked...and now they are onto the children, thus securing their future.
This is just shocking to me. I keep hoping that the true Americans, those who value & know what their country means, will finally stand up & make it their purpose to take their country back.
to be rather incurious about much of what goes on outside of their borders.
"appeared to be"? Most of them don't give a damn! Or even realize there is the rest of the world. Hell, Sarah didn't know there was a North AND South Korea! And she wants to be Prez!!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
I luuuv me some fish & chips with London Pub Malted Vinegar and HP Sauce:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJdaLZq5q7s&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Cod or halibut?
Gortons Beer Battered,
So who knows
Frankenfish?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It's pollock
The wickedness of pride has lost the light to understand how little grace is earned an how much given.
If you said Frinkenfish
It be gefilte.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Pulled them out of the water they were a frikin fish. Not worth much.
The wickedness of pride has lost the light to understand how little grace is earned an how much given.
Sun, 03/14/2010 - 17:32 — ysbaddaden
I'm also drunk and splitting my attention between here and watching the Simpsons, laundering my unmentionables, and cooking my fish and chips.
You must have ate a lot of fish? ;)
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Cod is so...........cod-like.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
I luuuv that too, ysb!
Why will the rest of the country allow the loons in Texas to rewrite history to fit their fanatical religious views? It doesn't make sense, especially Texas, the world's biggest crazy pit, with a governor who wants to secede from the union, how anti American is that? These people should not be allowed to do this to the American schools..they will ruin the mentality of our children and make them all want to live in Texas, can't imagine a worse fate
Woody McBreairty
Well that just depends on whether they move to Austin, Dallas or Lubbock.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I live in West Texas ...20 minutes from New Mexico and 15 minutes from Old Mexico and we here DO NOT like this .. I, with some others, are trying to see if the ACLU or PFAW can help us with lawsuits that inhibit these rules from taking effect until we can elect some literate honest US citizens to that board!
Let us know how it goes.
stupid.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
to rewrite history to fit their fanatical religious views?
Why not? They elected Dubya and Darth.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
This might be why "they " do what they do and why we do what we do.
http://groups.google.com/group/theauthoritari...
If you want to help them, and society, go here, lets get them the help they need.
http://www.change.org/actions/view/authoritar...
Evolution (as an alternative to creation) IS a theory. There is still the puzzle of what a first or prototypical 'replicator' means. So far (the scientists who would like to replace creation with evolution) have gotten by on this problem by using coded (one could say religious) language.
Evolution will always leave room for religion because it is impossible to account for all selection processes. And 'replicators' may eventually be understood to have internal (unobservable) mechanisms, like certain basic particles are thought to have - life maybe a telescoping of these mechanisms.
That's god-in-the-gaps, argument ad ignorantiam thinking.
Science can explain the how but not the why.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Exactly, but we still need to have a 'why' right? - That's where religion, belief, faith comes in - all the same.
It depends on the definition of the word need.
Is it a need like food, water, sleep and sex?
No.
But it satisfies the generalized need for causality.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
What satisfies the generalized 'need' for causality (need?)?
Are you saying you have no beliefs?
Just to be clear, you don't have the religious belief that science can explain everything do you? It's that sort of thinking - that sense of illusory control (I would call it dangerous arrogance) that has been the driver of many of the evils of the 20th century, continuing into the present and the future too...
I don't confuse beliefs with knowledge.
Your second statement could easily be used to blame much of the modern world's evils on that sense of illusory control that religion gives.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Knowledge always has embedded beliefs.
And you are correct with your second statement, that's why I wrote "religious belief that science can explain everything". My point is scientists can be just as religious (probably even more so) than theologians.
But they keep their religious beliefs separate from their science in scientific papers.
And knowledge always has embedded assumptions, not necessarily beliefs.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
"But they keep their religious beliefs separate from their science in scientific papers"
They try to, in scientific papers, keep their beliefs out, yes. And they can be quite successful in doing that. No argument there.
"And knowledge always has embedded assumptions, not necessarily beliefs"
And what are assumptions built on? Untested beliefs? Please. This is just semantics. You're not making an argument here.
goes. Evolution is a fact. It's been demonstrated in life forms who's spans are rather short, such as fruit flies, so it's easier to study. And it the reason diseases and bacteria mutate. They evolve.
Sigh. Scientists themselves call it a theory, not a fact. It's not that I don't see where you are coming from. Believe me, I do. It's just that there are deep philosophical problems with calling "natural selection" a fact - in short, we do not know what is being selected, and we do not/can not know if we can account for all selection processes (one and the same problem?). As a scientific principle, it is well established, however, as alternative to religious belief - which it is not meant to be, it is of course lacking.
Everything in science is called a theory, only Physics talks about Laws.
And assumptions are something you can draw conclusions from based on evidence, that's not so with beliefs.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
... there are no magical gravity angels holding your feet to the ground.
If I drop a 16 ton weight on your head, you're going to get squashed. This is the THEORY of gravity. It is not optional.
Sun, 03/14/2010 - 20:46 — Rich H
______________________________________
He tipped his hand early on with:
Evolution is not fact
Sun, 03/14/2010 - 18:40 — smotviddy
Evolution (as an alternative to creation) IS a theory.
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That shows his misunderstanding of the word theory, the scientific method, and tries to put creationism on par with Evolution. He didn't even tried to pass it off with the pseudo-scientific sounding name of Intelligent Design.
Even if one posits that it's a valid explanation in the theological sense (not a theory), it's a separate discipline from biology and the related sciences.
Would you go to a witch-doctor or a plumber when you're having heart problems?
The fact that scientists don't call it a fact is playing semantics, because they're always open to new evidence, but with a preacher there's no discussion it's always, "It is written..."
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
natural selection (or whatever formulation you have, just give it to me as 'fact') is a theory because it can not be proven. What is so hard to understand about that? Facts are different things entirely. That the speed of light is 300 000 km/second is a fact. Hope you can see the difference.
It's funny that you think I must be creationist. I have never been religious, and I don't believe in Intelligent Design. I simply recognise that science has limitations, as does philosophy, as does politics, art, and whatever else.
I mean really, who is religious to suggest otherwise?
And I see you admitting that natural selection is theory now, so why bother continuing the conversation? Case closed.
It's obvious you don't even know what a scientific theory is or have any familiarity with the scientific method.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://physics.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I'm an agnostic. You'll have to forgive me for I've been wine tasting and I've got quite the buzz.
But please explain to me how religion has a foot in reality?
I mean you no offense. But I just don't get how people can subscribe to a system of belief that has no footing in reality.
Of course you are entitled to believe in what you want.
But to enforce that belief on people who question that belief just seems to be unfair. This country was built on the belief that all people are created equal. Are you saying this fundamental principal is wrong?
You'll have to excuse me. I've been wine tasting and I'm hammered.
But, hey, my wife is happy. So all is good.:)
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Meaning can't be mandated
It's an oxymoron
It's like virginity
One either is
Or isn't
Or like pregnancy
I didn't do it...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
And I'm just gassy as hell
They're talking about putting an oil rig up on my ass...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It's the fish.
but health insurance can.
Yes I miss-spelled it.
Creationism is a wet dream thought up by closeted-gay clergy. Evolution is an ongoing observable fact.
You can see the results of evolution in any set of inbred incestuous back-country Christians. They can use the denial of evolution to deny their incest.
John Scopes is dead, and if he was still living, a crew of Texans probably would chain him to the back bumper of an F250 and drag him from Dayton to Texas.
We need a volunteer replacement, and that replacement needs an assault rifle for his own protection.
A volunteer to replace Molly Ivins would be almost as welcome.
...ignores the very real FACT that there is evidence of evolution past the "original replicator". There's really no excuse for ignoring science. Let's not even talk about climate change. I'm sure that curriculum is not even on the table.
Are you saying Texas won't teach evolution?
"FACT that there is evidence"
what are you asserting here - fact or evidence?
"past the "original replicator""
what does that mean?
It IS fact. You provide a nice example of how Texas education will pan out, however, so I thank you for that.
But, yes, evolution does always leave room for religion. Afterall, religion is just a bunch of made-up garbage that can fit in any crack. Seems reasonable given the crack it comes out of.
Listen, you don't even understand where I'm coming from. I'm not saying the science of evolution is wrong or anything.
Evolution is a PARADIGM - not even a theory as it can not be proven/disproven. It's a guiding principle. It simply refers to change in organisms over time - which we can even identify as 'true' (if we are feeling philosophical) but it is not a FACT, simply because it doesn't say enough to have fact-like characteristics. Understand?
I'm done arguing about this now. I try to provide a bit of clarity, but it just goes over people's heads.
Evolution has been proven. You are wrong. It is a fact. Thank you for stopping your argument because the only thing clear is that you are in over your head.
What, arguing with you? All you do is say I'm wrong - without offering any arguments. You have the maturity of a two year old.
'clarity.' That is rich.
I believe people here do understand where you are coming from-a world filled with bullshit and bullshitters. What I do understand smotviddy, is you are more often wrong than right, and you are wrong here too.
Thanks for the laugh...
me-oww!
you flatter me.
it's not like the students pay attention to textbooks anyway.
Do you have any idea what the tuition hikes are? I've been thinking with the dumbing down of young students and the process of making college prohibitively unaffordable, the republicans are ensuring a slave market in the coming decades.
I can't wait untill private schools (and public by then) are a traded commodity on wall street. Profit motive over service and education. This country is so screwed if we can't reign in these lunatics.
We really are losing this war, I believe, and it's because we're always on the defensive and rarely on the offensive. That's not how to win. Also, I believe in fighting dirty -- there is no high road left in America. There is only win or lose, and I want us to win no matter what it takes.
What war? The NeoCons are rewriting history.
You said: "There is only win or lose, and I want us to win no matter what it takes."
There is only one U.S.A. and your a traitor if you fall for this religion over State thing. (please refer to U.S. Constitution.)
When you've got control of the media, you don't even need to fight a war, you could just tell everyone you've already won (i.e. when the media says, "an overwhelming majority of Americans are against healthcare reform")
Or maybe you don't understand me. When I said "Outmaneuvering the Left" I was quoting from Karoli's article above. It was written in a warning that, while we ridicule them, the fanatics on the Right continue to outmaneuver us, and I was agreeing with that. This article is about revisionist textbooks in Texas, but it's just one example out of many across the country -- another assault in what conservatives themselves have referred to as a war, i.e. Rush Limbaugh's "war of ideas." Except ideas lead to action, so, yes, I do believe there is a war at hand. And, if you've been paying attention, it's a war that is becoming more physical by the day.
You completely misread my post. Where did I say anything about religion over state?
If I were a parent or teacher I would get the hell out of Texas because the Texas Taliban has takenover. How offensive that just a few religious zealots’ nut cases can effect what millions of kids will be taught
"They ignore Hispanics and their role in various historical events in the United States, such as the Alamo."
They have forgotten the Alamo?
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