Dueling Health Care Flow Charts: Reality vs. GOP Propaganda
By Logan Murphy Thursday Jul 16, 2009 5:00pm
(Reality flow chart) (GOP propaganda chart)
As Media Matters points out, today's GOP is trying the same old tricks of yesteryear, when they set out to destroy the Clinton health care plan in 1994. They've released a confusing and misleading flow chart (pictured above, right) to show how awful a public option would be -- and it's already being picked up by the right wing media.
On July 15, the Drudge Report, Fox News, and CNBC's The Kudlow Report provided a forum for a chart released by congressional Republicans that day -- a day after House Democrats introduced their health care reform bill -- that purported to show "the complex health care reform proposal by Democratic congressional leaders." The release from Rep. Kevin Brady (TX) about the chart, titled "BAFFLING FLOW CHART; Public Gets Peek at Complicated Bureaucracy in Democratic Health Care Plan," stated that the chart "depicts how the health care system would be organized at the national level if the Democrats' plan became law. These new levels of bureaucracy, agencies, organization and programs will all be put directly between the patient and their health care."
In response, TNR's Jonathan Cohn has come up with his own flow chart (pictured above, left) that describes the incredibly confusing private system most Americans are currently trying to understand and forced to endure:
But these charts--and, more important, the Republicans who use them as propoganda--tend to ignore one inconvenient fact: American health care is already complex. Ridiculously complex. Thanks to decades of haphazard, disorganized growth, it's evolved into a mind-numbing web of institutions, agencies, businesses, and individual actors. And while that may be self-evident to anybody who's ever had to deal with, say, a billing dispute between an insurer and hospital, it's easy to lose sight of that when the discussion is all about what reform might do--rather than what health care would be like without it.
in CANADA would not have it any other way....nuff said.
http://www.change.org/actions/view/i_demand_c...
At least the 1994 chart *looked* professional, and therefore carried with it some sort of credibility even if it lacked validity.
Boner's chart looks like it was drawn by the same conspiracy nutjob that does the web design for Art Bell and the Time Cube guy.
Just like their "Alternative Budget" from earlier this year, this thing is sadly amateur. It was was clearly thrown together using Powerpoint -- probably by some deputy staffer, and certainly not put up to any criticism by a professional artist or graphic designer. Christ, what a mess.
These people don't even *know* how sorry they look. If it weren't so pathetic, it'd be funny.
After all, the people who are going to believe this Repug propaganda are none too bright.
If you want a chart that makes sense out of a complicated mess, see
http://rp-network.com/blogstuff/healthcare.pdf. What's amazing is that the designer actually managed to decipher the original chart. This designer knows his stuff.
His post about this redesign of the GOP propaganda one is quite nicely put too: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertpalmer/374....
today's GOP is trying the same old tricks of yesteryear
Heeheheh. Ya, If you let 'em, they'll drag out the same old tricks from the dark ages.
Right wing hack, Ron Christie, is more concerned with the cost of health care reform, and less concerned with people dying.
Here is the clip. You have got to see this.
http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2194
...and willing to go against their own best interest willfully dying for rich pricks, does not deserve health care.
with these ads, we will end up with a half assed plan, no matter how false the charts/ads are. they use them as an excuse to give us the shaft
This is so way off topic but did anyone catch Pat Buchanan on Rachel's shows just a few minutes ago? The only thing the man didn't say is Spic and ******. I partially fault Rachel for giving this piece of shit a soapbox but it was just unbelievable. You'd think the white male was the one forced to pick cotton 150 years ago and the blacks were the ones whipping them. It was so offensive. Credit to Rachel for telling hem he was dating himself acting like it was the 1950's. But she and anyone else should not give this asshole any air time. And David Letterman is so offensive.
I have a feeling Buchanan comes from just about everywhere. Where's the DNA test?
Too bad the chart on the left has no icons...
conservatives like to claim because we elected a black president that racism is either over or getting better. It's worse today than it was a year ago. The racist are coming out of the woodwork.
I think C&L needs to fix their filtering. When making a comment about a racist and not a racial slur you shouldn't have it censored out. It ruins the post. I said ****** to make a point about Buchanan's racism, not as an insult to a race.
because we elected a black president. Racists, and right-wing authoritarians generally, are fear-based. Any little sign that the world isn't the way they want it and they go berserk, and Obama is a big, big sign that things aren't going their way. Of course, if they stopped and actually looked at Obama's policies, they might feel better.
Looking at the "reality" flow chart it is patently clear why the system doesn't work. There should be two boxes connected by a line: citizens and care providers. Everything else should be eliminated.
The only question is how to fairly pay for it, which would be much easier if the insurance profiteers, pharmaceutical profiteers and corporate medicine were eliminated.
"The only question is how to fairly pay for it .."
That would be the third box, the Single Payer.
Taxes going in - a higher marginal rate on incomes over $250K, maybe some of the Soc Sec $$$ that would accrue by eliminating the $70K cap, transaction fees from hedge fund trading in securities, etc etc ..
And $$$ going out to Health Care Providers.
i'm concerned about cost myself. specifically i am concerned how much healthCare/insurance will cost in 8-10 years if we don't get a solid/working healthCare reform program implemented NOW.
it still missed at least one piece of regulatory flow.
For group coverage insurance from employers which are self-insured, federal law supersedes state law, so a line from the Department of Labor to State Governments and intersecting with both Self-Insured Employers and Private Insurers-Administration Only is needed.
Here in Wisconsin, chiropractors must be treated by insurance as any other physician. When I questioned my group insurance company about their exclusion of chiropractic coverage, they gleefully pointed out this disturbing point of regulation to me. Despite my state's law, coverage was denied.
In the end, money talks, and BS walks. The GOP essentially argues for the status quo, even though we pay substantially more than any other country.
They oppose the "public option", which doesn't eliminate choice, but instead, adds a choice.
And, of course, we're not seeing the single payer chart. With GDP decreasing, and health care costs increasing, I don't think single payer is just the best choice, it's the only choice. And, if we're going to stick with this free trade, our employer based health care system should be evaluated to see if it puts our companies at a disadvantage with foreign companies operating in countries with single payer.
That's because of that other economic issue, which is, thanks to free trade, we consume more than we produce. The personal, corporate, and government borrowing that made up the difference is going to come to an end.
Going to single payer would also help the illegal problem. Rip up the freebies for illegals program. Only provide care to card carrying citizens. Might help get a handle on the millions of unknown illegal aliens sucking off the same teet that 50 million legal Americans cant. Hard to run a good country when you dont even have a clue about who or where 8 to 10% of the population is. Tie single payer into indentification and citizenship and watch the village morons (GOP) go crazy.
YOU -> Hospital
|
|_-> Taxes
But the way I see it the current chart is
YOU -> Death, Suffering, Pain, Chronic waiting too long.
|
|_ -> Insurance -> Denial when it's expensive.
|
|_-> Emergency Room
|
|_-> Alternatives (Marijuana for pain) -> Then Death
But of course this is my opinion.
Healthcare Reform should make patients the customer. Not the insurance company. Under the current system the customer is who is paying for healthcare services which is now the insurance companies or Medicare.
Most patients don't care how much a visit to the Dr. or immunization costs as a result. Physicians, hospitals, pharmacies don't have to be competitive on prices as a result. Have you ever shopped the cost of a prescription between pharmacies? The difference can be easily 40%-50% between pharmacies.
Health Savings accounts or simple reimbursement directly to patients could provide significant savings. Look at procedures that insurance doesn't cover: Lasik, cosmetic surgery, cosmetic dentistry. All these prices have come down as providers are competing for the business.
In short government insurance is not the answer. What government program can you call a success? Patients need to take on more responsibility.
I'm totally in support of helping out those in need. However, look at the way the plan is structured. It is expected to cost 1 trillion dollars. The intention, at least according to the video at http://www.newsy.com/videos/the_democrats_new..., seems to be to tax only people who make over $280,000 to pay for this.
This seems fishy to me. If we're really concerned about helping those who need it, make all America help. It's too easy to shrug it off on those who we think can "spare" the cash (money is like time: we always seem to need more).
And as you point out, Free Choice, the government (regardless of party) seems to fail pretty much everything they try their hand at. If I really believed they were capable of doing this efficiently, maybe I'd be more inclined to support it.
Notice how single payer isn't even an option, and daily it looks less likely that any real reform will come through. The Dems just roll over and play dead every time, allowing the GOP to still be in charge even though we voted them OUT!
This confirms, if nothing else, that there are no graphic designers in the Republican party. Artists are usually liberal out of necessity, but I've never seen anything on Red State or Freerepublic that tells me that any of them are or know a graphic designer, or even anyone with a little natural talent with color and layout.
How many enlarged those charts enough to catch that the Repug version is called, Boehner Chart? ROTFLMAO!!!!!
Fits!
And BTW, someone please ask Ted Poe how much longer he and his fellow Repugs and Blue Dog buddies have left to live.
With their horrendous, premium, government run, socialistic health care they must ALL be pretty close to meeting their makers!
And another thing, they should REALLY stop using the Canadian Woman who supposedly was told she had to wait a few weeks for treatment of a brain tumor and had to pay $100,000 for a stay at the Mayo Clinic here, plus plane fare. How nice she just HAD all that money laying around. If she'd been an American she'd be dead before she could even get an appointment with her PCP, let alone with a specialist.
http://www.slate.com/id/2220222/
This guide contains lists of various websites regarding the different parts of the legislation as it moves through the various committees. It includes links to Jonathan Cohn, Ezra Klein, and Rober Reich to name a few. There is much more on the page as well with many resources and correspondence between the CBO and Congress.
Here are two links to online tools that help you compare reform proposals as well as our current health care system to other countries:
1) Side-by-Side Comparison of Major Health Reform Proposals. A handy comparison guide from the Kaiser Family Foundation.
http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/health...
2) Side-by-Side Comparison of Health Care in U.S. vs. Other Industrialized Nations.
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/healthcare/h...
The "flow chart" the Republicans are trying to palm off reminds me if the old plumbers motto:
"The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."
i.e., if you can't dazzle 'em with a brilliant Republican plan, baffle 'em with a bullshit flow chart.
Our current health care system is to complex, to confusing, are you people out of your minds. You go to your doctor, he treats you, if you need medication, you go to a pharmacy and get your pills. Where's the confusion, where's the complexity. Its all very simple, but not for a simple mind. Our system has problems but is not broken. Just cap frivolous law suits and allow people to purchase insurance across state lines and you will solve the two of the biggest problems we have. Democrats will do neither. We don't need any more incompetent government intervention in our lives. If you want big government to control your lives move to Cuba. Medicare and Medicaid are two big government disasters and you people want another disaster that will bankrupt our country. You want facts, these are indisputable facts.
It's one thing to call the existing flowchart (reality) confusing - which it is, but to compare it the GOP flowchart - which is also confusing - is misleading since both have a heavy amount of government involvement. If you don't like the current healthcare system then you certainly would not like the future healthcare system as proposed by the Democrats (based on a comparison of the flowcharts)since the one thing both charts have in common is a preponderance of government involvement - there is just more "government" in the GOP chart and thus it is more confusing. It's the preponderance of government involvement that makes the current (reality) system so confusing - Just take a little fraction of that regulation, HIPAA (which is not even shown on the existing chart) and despite the government's good intentions to streamline records keeping to stem costs it has done the exact opposite creating a now massive cottage industry of consultants and regulators to oversee compliance. I imagine most who post here have never read the HIPAA regulation, taken a course to try to understand the regulation, and don't even imagine what more governement involvement in their healthcare will wreak. But as a start, go read and absorb at least some fraction of the existing regulations on healthcare before you try to enter the debate.
"American health care is already [ridiculously] complex"
Is that any justification to make even more of a mess out of it? Speaking as one who has dealt with government run medical insurance, I can assure you that you don't want it.
PS I really can't tell the difference between the charts. Yours has just as many umbilicals attached as the other one does
if George Bush's Part D was gone (an effort to bring more money to private insurers, and to fuck poor people out of more money), I can tell you it works fine.
Get rid of the bullshit political private driven shite, the co-pays, turn it into full coverage for all and the govt run option is the best, most streamlined system, with less profit-driven interference from bonus driven private sector bureaucrats.
American health care is already [ridiculously] complex because of the private sector.
Once people like you wake up, educate yourselves and come around to the single payer plan, you'll quit arguing against your own best interests like a run of the mill dumb shit.
According to your chart, there will be segregated hospitals. Anybody else actually take a look at that chart?
nice start, liar.
"Your chart" as you call the reality chart is how the system is now. So where, in today's hospital care, on the "your chart" (it's your chart too, pal. It's how it works today) is there segregation?
You're just here to flame bait, right? Because otherwise, you are quite clueless.
The whole point of the flow charts is to show the American people the increase in the amount of government crud that is being created at tax payer expense. The Federal Government is not supposed to be taking control of the private sector and going against the will of the American people. Over 54% of that same people do not want the government controlling their health care. So how confusing it is, is really a mote point, what we need is less government not more particularly from the people that can not even get your letters to you in a reasonable amount of time with out losing money and needing to be bailed out all of the time. This is how the U.S. Government runs anything in the private sector. Stop and look at the British health care system and realize that they are less populace than we are and then extrapolate the resulting mess.