U. of Texas Player Kicked Off Team For Racially Charged Threats On Obama
By Logan Murphy Thursday Nov 13, 2008 1:00pm
This story has little to do with sports, although you wouldn't know it from reading this article. Former center for the University of Texas Longhorns, Buck Burnette, made a racially charged threat against the president-elect of our nation and is lucky he only got kicked off his school's football team and didn't land himself in jail. The article brings up valid points about social networking sites and their potential pitfalls, but the real story here is about a racist pig who threatened our soon-to-be president.
AUSTIN — A template on facebook.com asks, “What are you doing right now?” An ill-advised response led to Buck Burnette’s expulsion from the University of Texas football team.
What began as a private text-message exchange on Election Night between Burnette and a friend soon became available for anybody with a computer to see.
In the status update section of his Facebook page, Burnette posted, “All the hunters gather up, we have a (slur) in the White House,” in reference to Obama’s becoming the first African-American elected to the presidency. Burnette said the comment was a text message he received from a friend and that he exercised bad judgment posting it on his page. He later apologized in a written note that was read by Brown during a team meeting. Read on...
Why is this bigot still a student at the University of Texas? My guess is that if he weren't a starting player for a nationally ranked football program he would already have been expelled and thrown out on his ass. People have been expelled for less, and I'm curious to know if the Secret Service has investigated the incident.
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how his black teammates would have dealt with this.
the coach took care of it.
wow, good for him... and his hands-on approach.
Why is the story illustrated with a photo of Colt McCoy, who had nothing to do with the incident?
They all talk about law and order and punishment...we are seeing more and more instances of threats on our President.
Where are the arrests! Where are the prosecutions?
If this were a minority threatening a white man...just an everyday white man...not a President...the nutosphere would be screaming for death sentences.
1) IOKIYAR.
2) Logan pretty much nails it: if this guy weren't a starting football player on a nationally ranked team, well, things might be different. Male athletes in "money-sports" are treated like little kings from the time they're sixth graders. Everybody knows they get away with all kinds of things they shouldn't, just as a matter of course.
Safe to say, though, if he'd been a swimmer at the University of Massachusetts and he'd threatened Bush, his ass would be in the slammer.
But he got kicked off the team, so he's not a starting football player anymore. He's not any sort of football player anymore. So he's not protected by his sports status.
I'm guessing they're treating this as a stupid mistake, that the player didn't think about what he was doing, and maybe the (described as) sincere apology convinced the dean that they didn't need to ruin his future to teach him this lesson.
I'm not saying that I excuse his behavior: there is no excuse for what he did. I just remember that someone took pity on me when I did something really stupid in college and didn't expel me (in case you're curious, I wrote a stupid note about a physics professor that could easily have been seen as a death threat. Someone found it, broke into his office and left it on his desk).
Football is King here; I have a new song about it, and an old one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7PLzZ0XcLE
This kid is a doofus. There's a high probability that he wouldn't be in college at all if it weren't for football. Perhaps there are not enough working brain cells to actually sustain quality learning.
Plus, the previously-top-ranked Texas Longhorns got their butts kicked the Saturday before the election by sixth-rated, still-undefeated Texas Tech (in the last few seconds of the game.) Was his brain still addled from that defeat? Perhaps he's actually a nice kid but just sorta punch-drunk from being smashed at the center of the scrimmage line.
Or not.
His ass should be in the slammer. And this guy's in college?
I think he needs to start his basic education over and learn something.
at another, more 'tolerant' university like Liberty, Oral Roberts, Bob Jones, or the one Pat Robertson runs.
He can always transfer.
Why is this bigot still a student at the University of Texas? My guess is that if he weren't a starting player for a nationally ranked football program he would already have been expelled and thrown out on his ass.
Logan I don't want to pick nits but the headline is that he was kicked off the team so I kinda doubt that his being a starting player on a nationally ranked football program has anything to do with him still being in school although most likely there are some scholarship money involved that needs to be reascended.
Just another Palin acolyte.
"Why is this bigot still at the University of Texas?"
Is that a Zen koan? You know, where the answer is the question?
It's #66 in the back left, not the front and center kid.
They "kicked" this racist off the team for his own protection....football is a game where one can exact extraordinary retribution.
Well we know he is stupid in two ways. The first is obvious and the second is that he posted it.
University of Texas?
:<[)
...maintain that it is the internet that is the problem, not the racist users.
That internet sure will get you in trouble when you post your real feelings!
People don't threaten people; the Internets threaten people.
He too must be a republican.
Welcome to Texas ya'all. Racism is alive and well. I think it was the night of or the night after the election that the guys at Baylor University had a bonfire burning Obama signs and nooses in the trees. I have relatives in Texas and believe me, visiting there is like going back in time. A major time warp happening there. Personally, I think the whole state (and Oklahoma) should be under constant surveillance.
It would have been dealt with much better on the field. His ass would have been laid the fuck out! The question is, who would have doen it first? The opponents or his teammates?
But then, it puts everyone in the position of acting on the basis of race, which is NOT GOOD!
I am not sure what I find more interesting, that someone thinks this way or that someone thinks this way and is dumb enough to post it publically. I find it truly fascinating that there are people so stupid that they are unaware that posting such comments could get them into serious trouble. Racism is one thing, combine it with complete stupidity and it is just pathetic.
I don't really see much sense in this guy continuing his education at this point. We can pretty much consider him a dud.
Perhaps he could join the military. He might learn some valuable lessons there about his fellow man.
nevermind. I just noticed the "hunters" part. My bad.
Since it is really only one sentence, I am not clear on how you could possibly have missed the other part. I won't give it away, but it is right before the part to which you are referring.
Perhaps you could argue that it is not a direct threat, but you still seem to have missed it.
cause there was an n-word in the White House. Dropping the n-word is bad, dropping the n-bomb and then advocating violence, well I guess American history passed your ass by.
Seriously? He didn't threaten anyone?
Implying that hunters (people with guns) should gather because there is a n-word in the White House isn't threatening? Get real.
as in "a hunted animal."
perfect for the threaten analogy combined with the word 'Hunt,' since the sole goal in a coon hunt is the death of the quarry.
(1) As already noted, Burnette is not the person prominent in the photo. #12 is the starting quarterback. You owe him an apology.
(2) Burnette was not the starter at center, he was second-string. Starter was hurt in practice yesterday, so third-string center will start Sat.
(3) This story is a week old. What's your excuse for not getting it right?
[(1) If you click on the link, you'll see that we are using the photo in the Houston Chronicle.
(2) OK Whatever.
(3) This is NOT a 'Breaking News' site. Never purported to be.
What's your excuse for being so rude? Sitemonitor]
Since the thread links to a newspaper article that clearly indicates who is depicted in the picture, I really don't see the issue. Had a link to the article not been provided, perhaps you would have a point. Furthermore, the article is from three days ago. If the story is older than that and you still find yourself dismayed, please contact the newspaper and offer your advice.
As for apologies, perhaps you should apologize for being too lazy to click on the link prior to the whining.
You are forgiven.
The article is three days old, but the story broke last Wednesday.
YOU are forgiven.
why does it fucking matter?
seriously.
I don't see a BREAKING NEWS! header before the title. WTF? As if this is the first time C&L posted a story from prior days.
*I* never heard this story before so this is NEWs to me...breaking or otherwise.
I repeat...WTF?
...that # 12 is the real McCoy! ;]
C&L really does need to change the picture to one that highlights Burnette. If you can't find one go without a picture. Go look at it and think about it for a minute.
this does not bode well for the univerisity of Texas nor its football team. Had they made quick work of this bigot and thrown him out immediately, it would have said a lot about the university. as it is, their inaction speaks volumes as well. AS for the Black players on the team "handling it," i don't think we give enough credit to our African American students. Because they are Black we expect themn to become enraged and take care of him in the locker room. That's what expected, i guess. But in reality, the better course of action would be to calmly take it in and allow the proper channels to handle it. It's called education.
I had a dumb ass white sorority sister drop the n-bomb in front of me when she was drunk. She was big in to Jay-Z and shit like that, so when she was drunk or high, she'd start talking like "a rapper." Did I lay her out? No, I told her what time it was (no head or neck rolling and no swearing,) and I brought her dumb ass in front of the judicial board, of which I was a member. Give black folks more credit please-- we don't resort to violence like that. They may have cussed him out but the majortity of his black teammates will ignore him. They have probably been expecting his dumb ass to say something anyway.
I think his teammates might take a page from Obama's campaign book and just allow the stupid to exhibit their stupidity. When Palin was going all "rogue" on Obama's past, he just let her go and never stooped down to her level.
...in the real world. However football is by it's nature, extremely violent. Teammate or opponent, it wouldn't matter, would constantly pound this jerk. And the NFL is 70% black.
This clown's football career is over.
At any time there are 100,000 boys playing high school football and hoping to make a career of it. Perhaps 10,000 get to play in college. And how many are drafted by the pros each year? 100?
Get real. Second-string center, top team or not, no career beyond college. All the injuries and none of the long-term glory.
And you "get real" fool. Whether it be college, or any pro level, this bigot is done. TEXAS, Miami, USC, Florida, etc. have "third stringers" who make pro.
Talk your uninformed bullshit to a novice.
I swear. When will white people learn that it is not ok for them to say "the n word"? Even if black people say it all the time and start talking like "a rapper" all the time, it is absolutely not ok for white people to say it. White people have to be taught their limits and boundaries. White people have to know that black people own that word. No matter how it's meant, in seriousness or in jest, it is only ok for black people to say it. This is the law.
No matter who "owns it"
A racial slur is a racial slur. Time to put stupid words to rest.
Alas...
on Nov. 5th. how much quicker would you have liked them to act?
there's still something to be said for taking the moral high ground.
do they play Grambling, Florida A&M, MoreHouse?
Perhaps the South can still secede from the Union...and if we ask nicely, maybe they'll take Alaska with them.
It really would reduce alot of the financial burden on the USA.
Wow it looks like the Secret Service is going to have to set up a new branch! The racists are a-comin' outta tha woodwork, yo!
I think they (the racists) knew this was going to happen, which was why they were so afraid of Obama winning the presidency.
Let's see, gun sales going up in rural southern US, kids chanting "Assassinate Obama", a neo-nazi plot to assassinate Obama, and this is only the week AFTER his election!
Oh these are interesting times indeed!
Nice username. For those who might accept (perhaps even enjoy) some education, that phrase was on Woody Guthrie's guitar during WWII.
And blame Palin as much as anyone for the racists coming outta the woodwork (no "yo" from me; it's just not the way I talk. Haven't used That N Word in my whole life, either, not even as a kid in the segregated South. I knew it wasn't nice.)
It's good to get all the racists outed. Then they're not stabbing us in the back. Stay out of the small towns of the Intermountain West. Those folks have NO idea that white doesn't automatically make right.
His butt could be in jail. As for the School's response, it was swift and appropriate. They took away something that he loved. Good on them. Actions have consequences.
And just another reminder that words have meaning and if you post something in an email, or on facebook, you should assume that everyone can read it. Forever. Amen.
I grew up in Texas, and one reason I'll never move back there is the stone racism of the average white Texan. Down there, they think somebody like Obama should be picking up their trash, not running for President.
I concur with you on that, Steve. I moved here (SE TX)4 years ago, and was astonished to see such blantant racism. The town of Lumberton is a typical "white flight" town; white people from Beaumont moved to Lumberton to avoid interacting with black people (the high school is all white.)
A colleague of mine was giving a program in a local school about bears, and was trying to explain why (the species of) black bear can look either black in color or brown in color, and innocently said it was like humans: we have many colors, but are all the same species. With that, an adult who was in the audience got up and left in a huff, taking her kids with her.
Another friend was in the drive-thru line at a fast food joint, and when the woman behind her saw the Obama bumper sticker on the car, she laid on the horn and yelled something about ".... a damn n-word in the White House."
People in this part of the state are almost proud of their ignorance. It's disgusting.
Well, I took off for the north after only a year of Houston. Mr. G had to stay behind for another year because of his job.
I love my husband but I won't live in Texas for him.
Texas is changing. People are needed here to help that change.
We moved from Arizona (ask me about the small towns I referred to above) where there are so few black people that Indians and "Mexicans" get the brunt of the bad treatment.
I'm staying for a while in spite of the racism. And I especially enjoy it when one of these racists assholes makes a rude remark to me, thinking that since I am a white male I must be on his side. I usually reply - in a voice to be heard by all within earshot - "That was an incredibly racist thing to say. What the hell is wrong with you - did your momma teach you that, or are you a racist all on your own?" There usually follows a stunned silence, followed by muttering and a quick exit by the racist. It's even more satisfying to see the grins on the faces of others who heard me and agree.
great job!
that is the way change takes place.
Actually, neither of us could take it. It wasn't just the racism, it was everything. The last straw was when I was asked to play in a professional woodwind quintet and after the first rehearsal the women asked me to go to lunch and "the range" with them. I had no idea what they meant by "the range" so I asked... and they proceeded to show me the little handguns they carried in their little '80s designer bags. They thought I was insane for not carrying a gun with me at all times. I thought they were all crazier than shithouse bats for doing so. After that I didn't feel comfortable in crowds anymore.
You rock for doing your thing. Keep planting the seeds Matt!
How about actually posting Buck Burnette's photo instead of using Colt McCoy's?
that kid is lucky
he gets to play for the texas longhorns and be named colt mccoy
I don't think people should be expelled from schools and denied an education for dumb comments. I believe in free speech, even if it's idiotic. What I'm really wondering about right now, is how a racist can get through elementary school, FINISH high school, without that process making an impact on his inert racism.
There's something seriously wrong with your educational system and society, really, if noone noticed he was a racist until he posted it on goddamn Facebook.com
didn't you read the entire article? he was kicked off the team. so, the ignorant hick racist isn't being denied his education. you can relax now.
and this isn't freedom of speech, it's hate speech. in case you're unaware of this, the definition of hate speech is: "Hate speech is a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, ideology, social class, occupation, appearance (height, weight, hair color, etc.), mental capacity, and any other distinction that might be considered by some as a liability. The term covers written as well as oral communication and some forms of behaviors in a public setting."
and, what's with your finding fault with the educational system/society for not noticing his racism until facebook? are you fekking kidding me? um...let me see if i can break this down for you. chances are...he was raised...in schools...at home...in a community...where racism is fairly open...thus...it didn't cause a furor...until the day came...he was too ignorant to realize...he'd reached...an audience...larger than...the community who shared...his "idiotic" beliefs.
oh, btw, i find your statement "i believe in free speech, even if it's idiotic" disturbing. go read this news report on non-liberal sites. you sound far too similar to his fellow racists who are backing him up, supporting his repulsive racism, as if this isn't 2008, but 1958.
Its to bad he was kicked off the team. I mean, I'm sure there are many on his own team as well as those players on the opposing side that would love to put a hurting on him. Besides, if that is him in the picture then it looks like he is a quarterback, place kicker, or punter. If so, his offensive line might just side step and let the defense have at him. Worse still, his own offensive line will join the defense and run him down.
Okay, I know I'm not going to be the popular girl on the block for the moment, but I'd like to toss something into the mix.
Absent a realistic threat for the Secret Service to investigate and prosecute, should we really be advocating his expulsion from school? For his (admittedly sickening) political beliefs?
How many progressive students have, in frustration, advocated Bush's violent removal from the White House the last eight years?
I'm glad we're winning lately. And I'm glad we're exposing Know Knothing Knation for what it is. Obama's rise has stupidly emboldened them to make themselves visible. But I would like to avoid becoming what we despise. I don't want to start advocating that bigots be expelled from universities. We still live in a free country, and we're free to be bigots.
I realize that his comments came in the form of a threat. But, so did idiot extraordinaire Ted Nugent's when he proclaimed that Obama and Clinton should suck on his machine gun. If the intent behind this moron's words were merely to express his frustration, let's expose and shun him, but not expel him from his educational institution.
He certainly has a lot to lean about the real world.
ron:
Heh, most college kids do.
Especially after a kegger.
My bad typo. LEARN
And as a college student myself that grew up and went to school in Texas, I made my share of racist remarks as a kid. Repeated stupid ethnic jokes that weren't funny until someone called me on it. And as I met and made friends with other diverse cultures and ethnicities, I changed. This young man could too, he is still a kid.
People should be allowed to make mistakes. The only tragedy is when someone doesn't learn tolerance and continues to spew nonsense like the Rush Limbaughs and Michael Savages of the world. But last time I checked we still have freedom of speech in this country.
He is free to speak whatever is on his pea sized mind. And we are free to form the opinion that he is an ignorant bigot. And U of T is free to make sure that nobody miscontrues that he is speaking for them as he wears their uniform by withdrawing that privilege. Freedom of speech does not come with immunity from the consequences of your hate speech, but you're still free to say it if you're ready to pay the price. Capiche?
Amen. We can say what we want, but actions have consequences. Everyone here needs to put the car in park and stop themselves from becoming what they have long since despised. If we advocate limiting speech we are no better than Limbaugh and his asshole friends. We are better than them.
t-bone:
There is a legitimate argument to be made there that he may not officially speak for the school itself. (I'm not sure he does that as a football player --- I would hate to see another university kick off a pro-Obama player under the same rationale, but there's a decent argument there.)
But it's another thing entirely for a progressive blog to advocate that "this bigot" not be allowed an education altogether because we do not like what he says.
It's a funny version of "freedom" if your free acts necessarily entail consequences.
But then, if the consequences are private shunning and public exposure, so be it. For a progressive blog to call for his expulsion from his school because he said something we don't like smacks more of the other side's tactics.
Sadly Karen, I see more and more of the other side's tactics on this blog, and frequently get into conflicts over it. Hopefully it's a very small minority here.
Nikola:
It is perhaps a natural instinct to overreach after winning power.
In any case, it remains an operative thesis of mine that Democrats tend to operate on a Progressive←→Authoritarian spectrum, while Republicans tend to operate on a Libertarian←→Authoritarian spectrum.
I would like to build up a movement that operates on a Progressive←→Libertarian spectrum. :)
Sadly, institutionalizing any movement seems to necessarily bring out the authoritarian part.
Nikola:
Perhaps. Eternal vigilance is always required.
In any case, with the authoritarians out in force on this thread, a devoutly non-authoritarian force is needed.
what movement are you a part of that's been recently institutionalized? i don't get it. what hasn't been? maybe you're just very young. it isn't a matter of keeping some movement or other from being institutionalized - because you're never going to have any real influence or power on the outside - it's a matter of what you do once you're "in", and working from the inside. geez.
i do suspect you're pretty young...as you keep repeating the same comment title "bring the old site back!!". not sure why you think everything changed 100% since the "old site".
So in your universe free acts don't necessarily entail consequences?
t-bone:
Okay, I should have put a little smiley face by that. But please read the rest of what I said: But then, if the consequences are private shunning and public exposure, so be it. For a progressive blog to call for his expulsion from his school because he said something we don't like smacks more of the other side's tactics.
paid a pretty hefty price by being kicked off the football team. Action was swift and decisive and appropriate. And you repeated what I said @ 13:28 about Actions and Consequences. However, having raised a few kids myself, the punishment should fit the crime. But over-punishment is worse than appropriate consequences because it only serves to be focused on as unfair punishment and lessons are rarely learned in that case.
In all likelihood, if this young man wants to play football again, he will most certainly have to go to another school to do so, won't he? He wasn't suspended from the team, he was kicked off.
And your "Capiche?" comment was unnecessary and condescending. But, hey, thanks for playing.
extracurricular activities?
give me a break!
treatment of him again? I've lost track in all these threads.
that's what I advocate.
Since when is bigotry a "political belief"?
t-bone:
Since the inception of the United States. And I'm pretty sure long before that. If sicko believes that black people should not be president, that's a political belief.
But who cares? Whether bigotry itself is more aptly described with an adjective besides "political," my argument is based on freedom of speech and freedom of conscience. And it is no less forceful merely because he might be expelled for a non-political belief.
Belief in a progressive tax system, a strong national defense, those are political beliefs. Bigotry may be a belief, but calling it "political" gives a legitimacy to racism that is undeserved.
t-bone:
Your semantic games do not undermine the basic premise that even racists have freedom of conscience and speech.
Call him out on what he says. Don't call for him to be expelled from his educational institution.
When did I call for him to be expelled? If they expelled all the bigots at the U of T there wouldn't be enough students left to field a football team
Did you even read the main post?
"Why is this bigot still a student at the University of Texas? My guess is that if he weren't a starting player for a nationally ranked football program he would already have been expelled and thrown out on his ass. People have been expelled for less, and I'm curious to know if the Secret Service has investigated the incident."
t-bone's reading of both the main post and the posts in the threads seems to be highly selective.
I keep selectively missing the smiley faces that should be there in your posts.
t-bone:
Uh, no, I acknowledged that it was missing. And then implored you to read my other comment. Which you apparently didn't, even though I quoted it.
Did you even read the post that I initially responded to, and then my post, and then the ones that imply that I support expulsion when I stated no such thing. This is getting tedious and boring...
why not?
to be expelled for being the racist piece of hick crap he is...but, oh my god, could you just relax? why can't people on this site vent about, YET ANOTHER, freaking racist making terrible comments about our 1st african-american president? oh noez...a thread on crooks & liars called for the expulsion of a racist hick at u of t...that means that the university will ABSOLUTELY listen to a website and expell him, although they wouldn't have otherwise. oh noez, it's all crooks & liars fault!
please. i vent all the time about the idiocy around me; the sexist jerks, the racists morons, the tactless rude idiots, etc. does that mean that i want my vicious revenge fantasies to really happen? no...not for the most part. but, even when i would want my revenge scenarios to come true...it NEVER means that they will.
chillax, already. if you want to defend the 1st amendment in constructive ways...there's this awesome orginization called the ACLU...they can direct you to REALLY helping to fight for freedom of speech, not the defense of a bigot who DOES get to stay in university.
betty brown:
And what I was saying in my original post was that we need to be aware of that very concept before we call for someone's expulsion because we just know he seriously and genuinely threatened the life of the president. I was simply cautioning against an overzealous pursuit of our own ideals that robs people (admittedly vile, racist people) of their free speech rights. I was not --- not at all --- defending what he said. So, indeed, remember your own words here, when arguing this topic.
Yes, the ACLU is awesome, and they would defend this student's free speech and freedom of conscience rights. And they, as I do, would resent being told that we are somehow defending what he said. Very likely, the ACLU would agree with what I, Nikola and Liberty Lover are saying here, and would be a little disturbed by some of our detractors.
And, yes, he does get to stay in the university. I still don't think a progressive blog should call for his expulsion merely because we disagree with his (admittedly vile) sentiments --- whether they're political sentiments, religious sentiments, other sentiments or just plain stupid sentiments.
It strikes me as weird to argue that C&L should get to vent publicly that "this bigot" is not being punished enough for his words, but that we, in the comment section, should just let C&L vent freely because nothing will really happen due to C&L's words.
In any case, I do thank you for acknowledging that you probably wouldn't want him expelled simply for being a racist. That's all I was saying, and I criticized C&L's call. The less-than-relaxed debate followed, and the tone set not by me, I hope.
Look up Apartheid.
Shouldn't that be look down?
because it has been exposed as an illegitimate political premise and no longer exists.
ended, no!
Look up Jim Crow laws.
"should we really be advocating his expulsion from school? For his (admittedly sickening) political beliefs?"
Public universities still have conduct standards, and hating blacks is not a "political belief".
"How many progressive students have, in frustration, advocated Bush's violent removal from the White House the last eight years?"
Because Bush is a criminal complicit to murder, they're not endorsing a klanlike gang to assasinatate anyone because of race.
And no, there aren't a huge amount of liberals suggesting that Bush be taken out by murder, thanks for the childish straw attack.
mausium:
Fine, call it a "belief." Not a "political belief." Should we be advocating the expulsion of someone from his school for his "beliefs?"
You seem to argue, "Yes." In which case, I guess you consider it just as legitimate for Michelle Malkin to call for the expulsion of someone who espouses "beliefs" she doesn't like. Or are you going to be able to lump all the beliefs she doesn't like "political," and thus create a double standard from which you benefit.
If universities begin to expel people for their beliefs, political or otherwise, we're in a world of trouble.
What difference does the motive make? A threat is a threat.
I didn't say there was a "huge" amount. That there are likely a couple of them is all that matters. Hell, even if there were none, should a hypothetical liberal be expelled from school for expressing his frustrations by calling for Bush's murder?
If there is a real threat to be investigated --- if it were a genuine call for murder, yes --- if not, no.
I'm a little perturbed by the direction of some comments. Yes, this guy is a racist, but universities can't expel people because they're racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. The issue is that he threatened the life of the president-elect, which should get him investigated by Secret Service. The school can do what it would usually do with students who commit crimes (which may involve expulsion or may not). So let's not confuse these two issues. I'm not saying racist speech is good. It's absolutely not. But it's guaranteed by the First Amendment, isn't it? UNTIL it leads to death threats against a president or president-elect.
Looks like I have one ally in this fight. :) Thanks, debg.
You have another ally:P
Only a couple of posts up.
Sorry for the oversight, Nikola. Your post wasn't there when I began writing mine. :)
oh my...the irony. okay, karen, keep defending this kid's freedom of speech, that's great. and it is, i'm not being facetious. i just don't agree with the vehemence, nor with your tactics. so, you and "bring the old site back" nikola have decided to hijack the thread and attempt to force your opinion upon everyone else. ha. freedom of speech, indeed.
and, as i said earlier, it's not that i think this stupid racist kid should be expelled, but i ABSOLUTELY believe that ANY member of crooks & liars should be able to express their own opinion about this. who are you and your lackey "btosb" nikola to keep harassing everyone else about this? it's not as if this site has the power to actually get this kid expelled.
one more time: please, chillax. it's a website, not the real world.
betty brown:
Please do not implore me both to lighten up about C&L's words AND to watch my own for being offensive. I was joking around.
So, I should defend freedom of speech, but not be vehement about it? Betty, read my original post. I was tactful and very respectful to the other side. I did not set the tone that followed.
Tactics? All I'm doing is debating. I'm invited to do so by C&L. As are you. I don't understand what you're talking about. I'm just posting in response to something with which I disagree, and I'm saying I disagree. As are you. I resent your implication that I've done something improper.
I haven't "hijacked" the thread. I'm commenting on it, just like anyone else is. I didn't go off topic, and I certainly haven't called for anyone else to be censored from disagreeing with me. Merely exercising my own free speech in no way forces you to agree with me. Your comment here is really very insulting.
Harassing? I'm not harassing anyone. I haven't even called anyone any names like "lackey." Nikola happens to agree with me, and he said so.
Who am I? I am a regular contributor to C&L's comment boards. I can agree with the original post, or I can disagree. Just like you. I have not called for C&L to be censored. I have not argued against Logan Murphy's right to say what he said. I merely disagreed with it --- and rather respectfully, I might add.
If continued commentary and debate counts as harassment, who are you to keep harassing me?
All I did was disagree, and engage in debate. And actually, if many well-known blogs echoed Logan Murphy's sentiments, power well might grow to have him expelled. As is the point of many of my well-argued detractors, words do have consequences.
But that's not the point. I simply expressed disagreement. Disagreement with me then followed. That's how debate works.
Since websites have little consequence in the real world, why don't you just relax about my words? After all, I'm not even on the front page.
A valid point, Karen. And perhaps staying in school and being known on campus as "the racist that was kicked off the football team" will make him think a little.
It still works. And I guarantee that he'll find kindred spirits who feel sorry for him, as well as those who choose to shun. But just imagine how his DAD will feel, the one who probably encouraged him all through his youth, playing on a }probably} winning high school team...
Okay, I guess it's appropriate to post my poem here. [Note: DeKalb and Clarksville are in the northeast corner, used to be cotton country. Pronounce it DEE-cab.]
Friday Night in Texas
It’s a classic rivalry every year when Clarksville plays DeKalb.
Those high school boys look big and mean as they spread out on the field.
Their coaches really pump ‘em up with all the pep talk they can blab,
And each side knows it’s up to them to win and never yield.
Boys, the other team’s got devil’s horns
They’ll mow you down as sure as you’re born
And if you lose you’ll face the scorn at Saturday morning breakfast.
So get out there and make no mistake
Just keep on going, and don’t you break
The honor of the whole town’s at stake ‘cause it’s Friday night in Texas.
Now you may think it’s a little thing, but it’s serious here in the Great State.
‘Cause football, boys, is truly king and in these towns it’s a big deal
Both the teams were rarin’ to go back in 19 and 58
To snort and blow and reap and sow—it’s life-and-death and it’s so real.
On Friday night in any small town,
The people come from miles around
To watch their boys run a football down ‘cause the stadium is the nexus
Of the social life of every fall.
They talk about who’d run the ball
And who got sacked; discussing all about Friday night in Texas.
It was 16 to zip at the quarter; the Bears had Clarksville down.
But the Tigers came back and earned 18 with two minutes left to unwind.
The fans were screaming, the visiting Tigers vindicating their town,
But their frantic coach glared up at the press box, and made the “Run the clock” sign.
Seems the man on the clock was so caught up in the drama unfolding below
That he’d forgot to start it, and then DeKalb made an 80-yard run.
Fourth down on the 2, and goal to go, the Bears made it over the goal,
But the game should have ended a minute before, if only the clock had been done.
A hush fell over the field just then, as the stadium figured it out
The players and coaches stood right there, until someone began to shout:
“DeKalb wins!” But the players knew that it wasn’t exactly right
And the teams looked into the others’ eyes and they understood that night.
.
There were none with horns, they were the same,
Just alike in their love for the game,
Did the Bears’ team feel the shame? “Those Clarksville boys did best us…”
And though it’s been discussed since then,
And every year they play again,
It’s another story told of when it was Friday night in Texas.
© MaryK Croft 10/31/07 updated 10/12/08
One thing I found VERY interesting. The title on this blog post implies that Burnette was kicked off the team for threatening Obama. But the Houston Chronicle story characterizes his misdeed simply as a Facebook blunder (their headline is "Egg on his Facebook") and barely addresses Burnette's racist threats.
In other words, everything would have been peachy keen if he had just kept his virulent racism off the interwebz. Typical Texas mindset.
I found it interesting that the comments made were all about embarrassment or inconvenience or getting in trouble. The jagoff's "apology" was to his teammates, his coach's warning was about having private stuff exposed. Nobody faces up to the problem being that this little shit is a racist. He certainly doesn't seem to see it as one.
... other than the oasis of blue sanity known as Austin, of course.
So this kid was living in Austin. Duh. Hate Texas if you must, but at least know that UT is in Austin. Blue haven or not, this little jerk was from Wimberly, which is about 30 minutes from Austin.
I think with the school bus kids, and even this more extreme incident we have to be careful not to argue a particulari ad universale.
Kids are stupid. And even though this one is college aged, scientists say the impulse control area of the brain in the temporal lobe doesn't really fully develop until between the ages of 19--25. For some it never develops and they become schitzophrenic.
The other problem is in this high-tech age these dweebs don't understand they're putting their lives on record. They set up webcams in their bedrooms and act sexy, or make inappropriate comments such as this one thinking they'll remain anonymous. Even the site monitor on this site has to keep reminding trolls that he can see their IP's. Potential employers know about these high-tech practices like MySpace, YouTube and Webcams and now routinely check out potential employees online.
That being said, a crime may've been committed by this threat but extenuating circumstances have to be considered, and we don't want to exaggerrate any threat into a general racial or regional animosity.
And even though this one is college aged, scientists say the impulse control area of the brain in the temporal lobe doesn't really fully develop until between the ages of 19--25
That's no excuse. You can't wait to impose a rule until the person has "grown up" enough to do it on his own. Rules are there in part to keep people from doing things they shouldn't. That's how we learn what's right and what's wrong - from the rules we hear from the time we're small.
No one's ever too young to learn how not to be an asshole. Certainly a guy his age is more than able to control himself. Being a jackass is, after all, at least half about not knowing when to keep certain things to yourself.
But the argument wasn't to not impose a rule, but consider extenuating circumstances in the sanction stages.
for letting an FBI agent goad them into burning the sears tower down, using a book of matches. they were going to be paid a pair of nikes each.
this young 'man' surely over 18, threatened the president elect of the United States. When are we not supposed to treat him like an adult? If 12-year olds can be tried as adults, so can this dickhead.
We didn't write the domestic terrorism rules. We didn't reset the bar and eliminate habeus corpus.
This was a threat against a President elect. The law is very clear.
Let justice be applied equally.
I saw this headline on ESPN last week. He was the starting Center; not the QB.
1968 was UT football's last year as a segregated, all-white team. That wasn't so long ago.
The big galoot pictured here is Buck Burnette, back up center for the University of Texas Longhorns. Check that — former back up center. You see, good ol' boy Buck here thought it would be funny to update his Facebook profile status with this message soon after Barack Obama's election:
Kudos to Buck for putting symbols over the deplorable word (he probably wasn't censoring "butler") but the damage was already done. Word got back to Longhorns coach Mack Brown who immediately booted him off the team. Burnette has since taken down his Facebook page, but before he did, he left this contrite message to all those offended:
Well, it is an apology and not the old "dressed as a drunk guy who was drawn on for Halloween" excuse, but it's still a little shameful that some of Buck's takeaway was that it's not "ok to write that publicly," but whatever. He'll be a better person after this. Hopefully.
[from DeadSpin]
The apologies should always read:
Apart from the possible criminal aspect of this (threatening someone, especially the president-elect) people should not be kicked out of school for speech. So he's a racist? That's not illegal. The school and everyone should denounce it, but let him speek no matter what sort of hateful dope he is.
unless, of course, you're willing to excuse racist threats against Obama. Is he less valuable than a white president?
CoIntelPro:
Of course Obama is not less valuable than a white president.
But if a college kid had put on his Facebook page last year, "Fuck it, if McCain wins it's time for a violent revolution against this disgusting country, and to take McCain out," and the Malkins of the world called for his expulsion, we'd all be screaming about free speech, and you know it.
Karen, if you continue making my points so well, any minute now someone will accuse me of having 2 accounts here.
Again, wouldn't be the first time:P
count me out of that 'free speech' ideal. I take threats against any president seriously, unlike the US attorney in Colorado, who thought methheads with a scoped rifle were not worthy of indictment. If I were on Obama's team, I'd make sure he and the Texas Attorney were fired faster than baconshit through a goose.
All things being equal, all things are NOT equal.
This is just another demonstration. This thread is full of excusers and apologists and it's sickening. This is not about speech. Facebook is a web equivalent to a roadside billboard. These were threats made by an adult against the president-elect of the united states. The patRIOT Act is quite clear and lays out terms in which someone can be prosecuted for speech. I'd like to see it applied in this case and in Colorado.
CoIntelPro:
I have already made very clear that if the words constitute genuine threats --- as opposed to hyperbolic expressions of frustrations --- we are dealing with something other than free speech.
I am hardly excusing him. I have called for him to be shunned. My objection is with a progressive blog ADVOCATING THE EXPULSION FROM HIS SCHOOL someone with whom it does not agree.
Karen, It's not a matter of a student being kicked out of school as much as it is that he's being kicked off the football team.
Mr. Burnette clearly commited an act detrimental to the team- a team composed of a large number of African-Americans. He was kicked off the team for this. If he's on a scholarship based on his membership on that team the scholarship should be revoked, imo.
Now I'd agree with you if the kid was paying his own way through school, or even if he was on an academic scholarship. He has every right in the world to make an ass of himself.
Fair enough, Andy K, but Logan Murphy's (many of whose posts have disturbed me as anti-liberty) words called for the expulsion of "this bigot." My original post concerned that very call. I don't like the idea of calling for the expulsion of people with whom we disagree, no matter who vile their words.
are you kidding me?!?! is this what your problem has been all along? are you one of THOSE people? you try soooooo fekking hard to be soooooo fekking progressive/liberal/left/whatever you want to name it, that you become completely blinded by your lack of concrete opinion/ideology.
i don't think anyone was calling for this kid's expulsion because of a freaking disagreement. again...ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME????!!!! seriously, i am absolutely stunned by your last comment, and my realization of the kind of person you might be. do you not realize that sometimes a person can try sooooo hard to be soooo open-minded, that they end up having no real mind of their own?
again: this isn't about disagreeing with this kid. THIS IS ABOUT THIS KID BEING A RACIST WHO MADE THREATS AGAINST PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA. how do you not get this? are you being obstinate? that's just as unattractive in a person as the so-freaking-open-minded-you're-really-just-wishy-washy kinda person.
Just read my original post, and you'll see where I'm coming from, Betty.
May I ask you kindly to stop insulting me? I was clear from the very beginning, not to mention respectful. I have a very concrete ideology. I realize not everyone here agrees with me about it.
But, at least read my original words that prompted this debate.
does it depend on what the definition of IS is?
CoIntelPro,
I mean that there is a difference between a hyperbolic expression of frustrations and a genuine threat.
I have said, many times, over the phone, that I would like to kill George Bush. I don't mean it. I am not actually threatening him. Anyone listening in on the conversation would understand that, even if the words themselves technically constitute a threat.
I get it now!
CoIntelPro:
No. You don't.
I don't. I was being sarcastic.
Thank you for the clarification.
are punishable by denial of extracurricular activities?
geez, for a second i was thinking, "omg...how didn't i read about that?!!!?" then i re-read your comment, and saw the "if".
you can't argue your position with a make believe "if". who knows? "if". "if" never happened, unlike this kid who did post a racist threat regarding president elect obama on his facebook.
my fekking god...if the countless "ifs" of my life were true, had actually happened...i bet i wouldn't be typing replies to ludicrous comments on crooks and liars that really are sadly misguided attempts at defending free speech.
racist talk is an indictable offense.
It is not a political belief.
And, in this instance...it can be argued in a court of law that it implied an intent to riot or to inflict physical harm...also an indictable offense.
And this is not a school bus full of minors we are talking about here.
This idiot is an adult.
and there are too many apologists here for my taste who are trying to turn this into some mild hypothetical, excusable event.
i doubt you'll see my thank you since this thread is old, but still...it's been frustrating. i see little difference between karen, nikola, and a few others, and their freakish defending of this guy's racism as "freedom of speech" and the comments left by racists on news sites reporting this.
i even started to suspect karen...almost every argument i've read from her so far on this thread, "freedom of speech", "we'd be screaming freedom of speech if...", "george bush has been hated...", etc...i've read those exact same defenses on other sites.
oh, and karen, if you do re-read this thread (and someone may have brought it up below, but i haven't been there yet): are you also so naive/ignorant/thick-headed/ridiculous as to not know, or realize, or accept that there IS a difference between verbalizing a disdain for george bush(or hell, even verbalizing a disdain for barack obama) and using n****r with the image of hunters? if you can't honestly see how the "n" word with hunter image isn't a million times worse than just saying you despise/wish ill upon a leader...then you either grew up in a different united states, with a different racial history, than i did - or you, too, have some racism within you.
Betty:
That is extraordinarily insulting. Fuck you, Betty. And the rest of your words too.
I haven't come on here, and called anyone half the names you have called me responding to my threads, and now you call my comments "freakish" and say there is little difference between my words and those of racists who laud bigotry.
And you repeatedly tell me to relax? You tell me I'm harassing people?
I'll not make the mistake of arguing with you again.
Do not sully the name of our porcine companions here upon earth by calling this guy a pig. Pigs are much smarter than this moron.
Where's the Secret Service? This guy has got to be really mad at Obama now. I'll bet he thinks it was Obama's fault he got shit canned.
Hey boy. Practice these phrases for your upcoming career track.
"Would you like that SuperSized?"
"Would you like fries with that?"
"I'm sorry sir. We don't have Coke. Only Pepsi"
"Do you need help out to the car with your groceries today, ma'am?" "Paper towels are on Aisle 6"
"Which aisle did I need to mop up?"
and decide that the thug is overqualified.
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