Howard Dean: "Name one thing the Republicans will do if they win"
The conventional wisdom is that whichever party is in power during a down economy will suffer great losses come election time. Certainly, we can look at the '94 and '06 elections as verification of that rule.
But I would argue that we're not in an era of politics as usual. For all the rhetoric the corporate media pushes about anti-incumbent sentiment, special elections between 2008 and now have not borne out those theories. And as former DNC head Howard Dean points out, when the alternative is the insubstantive platform of the Republican Party, it's hard to justify electing them over the Democratic Party, no matter how ineffectual we find them.
I think this is the time to put that stuff behind us. We've got to win this election. And we're going to have -- after the election is over, we'll go back to having our policy fights, but this is about winning. You cannot get anything done unless you have a Democratic president and a Democratic Senate and a Democratic House.
And the Republicans have proved it. They are the party of no. They haven't had a single constructive -- name one -- anybody who's watching this show, name one single constructive political initiative that the Republicans have put forward.
And when, finally, somebody did put forward one, Paul Ryan, he was lionized for three days and then abandoned by the Republicans because he wanted to privatize Social Security and Medicare. Name one thing that you could hope for from the Republicans if they should win this. That is not a winning strategy.
Transcripts below the fold
CROWLEY: How bad do you think it will be this fall, in November? What are your predictions?
We've got the vice president who has said, if I could bet money on it, I would bet that we will keep the House and the Senate. Charlie Cook, who I'm sure you know, well-respected politico, who said he thinks it's going to be a wave election and that, in fact, the Republicans will take over.
Would you bet money on House Democrats staying in charge?
DEAN: I'd bet money on the Senate, for sure. The House is much tougher. I think, at the end of the day, we're going to win in the House and we're going to have a majority. It will probably be reduced to many -- perhaps as small as a five or 10-seat majority.
We simply have better candidates. And even the districts that are troublesome districts were very close, or we're going to -- I think, for example, Gabby Giffords will win in Arizona. I think Mary Jo Kilroy will win in Ohio. I actually think -- there's a young guy named Tommy Sowers, who's a Vietnam vet, who's going to knock off Jo Ann Emerson in Southeast Missouri, Rush Limbaugh's home district. He's just running a tremendous campaign. He's raised a lot of dough.
So we're going to have some pickups. We're going to have some losses. At the end of the day, I think we control both houses.
CROWLEY: Let me talk to you, a little bit, about the professional left. I don't know if you consider yourself as a member of the professional left that got skewered, a little bit, by Robert Gibbs.
(LAUGHTER)
But certainly, you have voiced, on "Don't ask, Don't tell" and on the health care bill, some of the real misgivings that the left has had about some of the things the president has done. And it boils down to this, this fall, do you think the left sits home or do you think the left goes out to the polls? And what gets them there?
DEAN: Well, look, I don't think that the left -- what Gibbs was talking about with the so-called professional left -- I don't know what he meant by that. You know, I think -- but that is a very small number of people. I think there are a large number -- I think that the people around the president have really misjudged what goes on elsewhere in the country, other than Washington, D.C.
I don't think this is true of the president, but I do think his people, his political people, have got to go out and spend some time outside Washington for a while. The average Democrat is a progressive. And, you know, there are some things that are upsetting about the kind of deals that were made by the president's people on health care.
But I think this is the time to put that stuff behind us. We've got to win this election. And we're going to have -- after the election is over, we'll go back to having our policy fights, but this is about winning. You cannot get anything done unless you have a Democratic president and a Democratic Senate and a Democratic House.
And the Republicans have proved it. They are the party of no. They haven't had a single constructive -- name one -- anybody who's watching this show, name one single constructive political initiative that the Republicans have put forward.
And when, finally, somebody did put forward one, Paul Ryan, he was lionized for three days and then abandoned by the Republicans because he wanted to privatize Social Security and Medicare. Name one thing that you could hope for from the Republicans if they should win this. That is not a winning strategy.
So all I can say to the Democrats is this is the time to put our differences aside, and let's get this job done and let's win and let's work like crazy and then we'll go back to our policy fights after the election is over and after we win it.
that is no reason not to get behind the Green party, whose platforrm is replete with details about what they will do. And they are united. There will be no yellow jaundice caucus in the Green party majority in Congress. All its members will work for the adoption of the party agenda as a whole and never worry about their individual reelection.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
... why is it that some Dems are so afraid of a strong Green Party alternative? Is having to actually work to earn the votes of liberals and progressives such a terrifying prospect for the Dems?
BTW, isn't a die hard Democrat laughing at the Greens' supposed "division" and "lack of effectivity" a monumental case of people living in glass houses throwing rocks around? Given the reality of your party with their Blue Dogs and their inability to actually govern with majorities in both houses and the presidency that is...
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
I believe in the Greens. I vote Green locally in every election.
But I'm also pragmatic enough to know that without the foundation of party establishment at the state and local level, the Greens have NO chance at the federal level. To vote Green at the federal level is to throw your vote away, or worse, give it to Republicans.
If you want the Greens to have a chance, do what you can to build the infrastructure. Without it, they are useless on the national level.
..I never throw my vote away; I vote!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Your vote counts, true.
But voting for an unsupported third-party Green candidate is effectually a vote for Republicans.
As sad as it is to say, the reality is that your vote on the national level is usually a vote against someone or the lesser of two evils.
I wish it wasn't that way, but I don't see that changing until we have radical campaign financing reform.
Instant Runoff Voting is so important to establish. Then a vote for the best of the choices offered doesn't end up with the worst choice winning.
Like most other phony progressives, you make the lesser evil argument, but the truth is the Democrats are just as far right as the GOP on most issues, if not moreso. For example, the Democrats are the ones trying to put government power into the hands of corporations. This idea is fundamentally fascist and way beyond the laissez-faire regime of the GOP. You therefore can't make the lesser evil argument on economics, not unless your only criterion is a slightly higher tax rate on the wealthy. You also can't make the lesser evil argument on social issues, as the Democrats have all but abandoned gays, gun control, abortion rights, etc. The only possible basis for the argument would be that Republicans would make already-bad policies even worse, but even that doesn't work as Democrats almost immediately absorb every idea coming from the GOP. It follows that the adherence of any self-described *progressive* to the Democrats can only be the result of religious devotion, and I'm sorry, but religion really isn't a rational basis for politics.
I agree that the Democrats are disappointingly spineless and weak, but there is no way that you could ever convince me that they are as far right as the GOP. It doesn't hold up to analysis.
Where are you getting that the Democrats are putting government power into the corporate hands? Because the Roberts SCOTUS (not a Democrat) ruled for them in Citizens United? Because Summers and Geithner (both late of the Bush administration) have offered us the same free market Chicago school bullshit and kept other voices away from Obama?
I don't think the Democrats have abandoned gays, gun control or abortion rights. Although I would argue we have more pressing issues right now than abortion rights.
Have they been close to progressive? No. But I understand that as much as I think I'm correct on these issues--I AM NOT THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. We are a percentage of the population that has to jockey for influence with others. If you truly want to equalize the playing field, then we need election campaign reform. At that time, you will see me abandon the Democrats with glee.
But until that time, I will do everything in my power to prevent another Republican majority in Congress or a Republican president.
Because there's no way in hell you can make the intellectually honest argument that we would be in the same position we find ourselves in now with Al Gore as president for the last eight years.
If there had been one more liberal on the court, private corporations would have the power of eminent domain. Even without a victory in that case, Democrats are coming up with all sorts of privatization schemes to hand the power of government over to corporations. In my own community, for example, the county commission is attempting to divert $36 million of government funds to a developer for the purchase of an old GM plant, effectively giving a private company the ability to tax citizens. At the national level, Obama pushed through the health insurance mandate, turned the Gulf clean-up over to BP, and is now attempting to privatize public housing. All this is to say nothing of the free trade and de-regulation policies supported by the Democrats, which have seriously undermined wages and job opportunities. Again, I don't see how you can argue that the Democrats are a *lesser* evil when the policies they support are as bad or worse than anything coming out of the GOP.
Whether the Democrats are as far right as the Republicans is meaningless. What matters is results. The Democrats can say they are for all sorts of things, but if they are not willing to stand up and fight, if they cave in every time the Republicans say boo, if they sneeze every time the GOP gets a cold, they might as well be Atilla and co.
Having Democrats in power only slows the damage - it doesn't stop or reverse the erosion of the Constitution or our rights or of the middle class.
What we need is:
* instant runoff elections so we voice our opinions without throwing our votes away.
* voting machines that leave a paper audit trail so we can verify that the votes cast equal the votes counted.
* for all Americans to educate themselves about, and become active in our political system.
* to kick all the corporate lobbyists off Capitol Hill. The government is supposed to be 'We the People', not 'we the artificial entities'
* to pressure the Supreme Court to reverse the Citizens United decisions. Do we really want Monsanto to determine who makes legislation regarding the safety of our food?
We've got serious problems in America, folks, and until we take measures to help ourselves, we are at the mercy of the dead-weight-right who have their chains wrapped around our necks...
I have green underwear
Used to be white,
Does that count?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It depends on how much CO2 it absorbs.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
the democrats have some of the same agendas as the green party and splitting the vote would only insure a republican win.
..a clue from that?
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
I do know that the hard core greens haven't learned that.
it is their agenda at "governing" time that I am starting to see a serious degree of disagreement between the Dem and Green political platforms.
That being said, perennial scorn, belittling, and general vilification of progressives may not be the best Dem approach to earn the votes of liberals. IMHO.
Either we live in a democracy, or we do not. And a fundamental part of a democratic process is the citizens being able to exercise the fundamental right of voting their conscience. Honestly if the Dems had something to offer to actual progressives it would be self evident, without having to resort to the already long in the tooth cry of "The GOP is coming! The GOP is coming!"
If that does not change, we will be stuck in this same system of having to choose between the lesser of two crappy choices. And such level of ever diminishing standards is not going to take us to a good place.
I have no problem voting for progressive Dems, but at this point... it seems that the main preoccupation for many Dems (and Repugs too) is to "get elected." And that is a small part of their job description, it is what they do once they get elected which I have some issues with at a personal level.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
.
the FURTHER the Republicans lurch towards Crazyville, the more comfortable the Democratic Party feels with moving further right, JUST to the left of them - in policy and legislation.
Have polls been done that show the Democrats would lose or lose big if they did the right thing and move left?
What do you all think?
What can be done?
all I have is my own particular opinion. Which may or may not be correct, and it is obviously biased because as I said it is rather subjective.
If the Dem party decides they are far more comfortable moving towards the right, so be it. It is their prerogative, and I believe that part of a democracy involves plurality of political views.
However, what I find unacceptable is the assumption by some Dem operatives that somehow they can feel entitled to my liberal vote. If the Dems keep moving to the right, my vote will move elsewhere. Simple as that. And no, I will never ever vote for the GOP in a million years. I much rather vote Green, or even Socialist.
Do these 3rd parties are viable alternatives now? Maybe not, but like any long trip... you must start somewhere. Simply saying, "hey... it is a long ways out so let's stay here" does not cut it anymore when the place you are staying is turning into a shit hole. Baby steps I guess, but we need to start walking at some point.
I am simply tired of being laughed at by people who feel entitled to my vote, specially when they go out of their way to belittle what I believe in, rather strongly. I am tired about the main electoral proposition by the Dems being "we're not as bad as the GOP" as if that was some kind of achievement. My cat leaves droppings in her litterbox which are definitively better than what the GOP has achieved, and yet I am not willing to vote her for office.
As I said, they are entitled to their own views and beliefs, I just find unacceptable some of the attitudes of entitlement by the Dem establishment, esp the DLC.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
If you vote for them, the Democrats will just label you a GOP enabler, as they did with Nader voters in 2000. In fact, the bad blood over Nader would appear to be why the Democrats are abandoning progressive causes.
The actual truth is that both sides are right: progressives are helping Republicans, and Democrats are shafting progressives. The problem is that progressives want to have it both ways; i.e., they want to be able to vote Green or criticize Obama and then not be slammed by the Democrats when it gives the GOP a seat.
I think what we need here is some logical consistency from the left. If you're dissatisfied with the Democrats, fine, then vote Republican and work to make the GOP more progressive. If not, then vote Democratic and work to make the Democratic Party more progressive.
"I mad at Nader, so I'm going to abandon my own principles become a republican, but still call myself a Dem."
Nonsense as usual, freeq.
me-oww!
If a conservative like Ben Nelson can still call himself a Democrat, why can't a progressive call himself or herself a Republican?
You know, a cynical observer would point out that your argument is exactly what a demagogue more interested in the well being of the GOP, than in actual progressive ideals, would make.
If you want to turn a mainstream party progressive, it follows that it would be orders of magnitude to do so with the Dems than the GOP. That is if one was honestly interested in such an endeavor.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
In a two-party system, if one side doesn't give you what you want, you go to the other side. Why that is so hard for progressives to understand?
I admit that it can sound fishy for someone to encourage progressives to vote Republican, and that's why it's a hard argument to make. The fact that it's hard though doesn't make it wrong.
he or she believed in by voting Republican, because the Democratic Party, the party closer to what he or she believes in, let's him or her down most of the time?
We have to find a way to make Democrats back progressive causes WITHOUT putting the crazy fuckers in charge.
I hate to say it, but I think I agree with George Carlin - it's probably pointless to vote - we're owned by the same fuckers no matter which party is in charge, and short of a revolution, which would probably only follow a major disaster, nothing is going to change this.
As an Independent Leftist, as opposed to being either a "blue dog" Democrat or "Professional Leftist", I have most frequently voted my conscience rather than "hold my nose and vote" for the lesser of two evils.
I have been watching the Democratic Party and the manner in which they govern these days with great trepidation. Without being bound in chains to the Democratic Party, I may have seen the train wreck in slow motion that the DLC-led Democratic Party has become earlier than many. I see no future for the Democratic Party as it exists today -- it has become the "left wing" of the Greedy Oligarchs Party, including (I am sorry to say) Obama.
[ http://www.therealdifference.org/issues.html ]
I too have no problem voting for progressive Democrats, if only I could find them on my VA ballot. As such, I am forced by conscience to either write-in some independent progressive that didn't make the ballot, vote Green Party (an easy choice IMHO), or perhaps not vote. But I always vote, and I would be more inclined to vote Libertarian than DLC/DINO Democrat incumbent, if only to pitch out the Corporatist bought-and-paid-for incumbents.
Call it a play upon the meme: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend, no matter how fleeting that friendship might be." We are, after all, talking about the final throes of class warfare in this country, which we are badly losing.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
to be small and still be united. Yes, let us rejoice and vote against our own self interests by dividing the vote. Then after go to starbucks and maybe even get a muffin.
Did I get it right? Did I get it right?
yes
Tax cuts solve everything. But liberals will never understand that.......ha!
"this is the time to put our differences aside, and let's get this job done and let's win"
Imagine a world where 65 senators are non-GOP?
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
What's my prize? Hope I get a job, 'cause I don't have one now.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
"Name one thing the Republicans will do if they win"
Still say no?
Still go to simulated lesbian dinner clubs?
Finally get rid of Michael Steele?
Pass a law demanding a long form for Barack?
Give the wealthy more tax cuts?
The possibilities are endless.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
more wars for Jay-sus?
If the GOP wins back a majority...here is their agenda.
1) Extend the Bush Tax Cuts
2) Tie up the Congress with useless subpoenas of Administration members and agency heads in the hope of finding something to parlay into impeachment proceedings.
That...is...about...it.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
L&P,
2) Definitely. Issa has already promised this.
Don't Forget repealing the HC bill.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
unlike the cowardly dems, the GOP gets stuff done. now, mind you, that "stuff" is about as economically unsound, democratically insulting, and constitutionally offensive as one can stand, but they still get it done, even if that "stuff" is unpopular and controversial (see, iraq war, bush tax cuts, etc).
You think nothing has gotten done?
You may also not like what the democrats have done but more has gotten done in the last two years than many under the R's.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
with enough cover the dems can get 'things' done... i'll leave it at that.
Name one part of the GOP agenda that didn't get accomplished over the last 30 years, including under Democratic Presidents.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
Folks say progressives don't have one good thing to say about George Bush. As far as ramming through an agenda, Bush is unsurpassed. He definitely got the things done that he wanted done.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
and screw things up even worse.
I'll be voting Republican this November to make sure that Obama does not go forward with gutting Social Security, which can only be accomplished if the Democrats control the White House and both houses of Congress.
You'd only vote republican if you have a death wish - and I'm not a fan of this president.
You will be voting Republican in order to save SS? Oookay..
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERss.htm
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
i think that strategy might backfire on you
... good grief.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Social Security alone? I do not believe the Dems will touch SS because if they do, they will be voted out of office. Seniors are a huge percentage of the voting public.
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
That's either good weed or bad meth talking.
I wish this guy was still running the party.
The only thing Republicans have is reactionary : undo HCR, undo expiring Bush tax cuts, undo financial reform, undo social security.
Although Tao Jonesing above says only a Dem WH and Congress can gut Soc. Security, they would be hard pressed to do so if the only thing they have going for them is votes and voters.
Republicans do not care that 69% of Americans want to expire tax cuts on the rich; they don't care because for Republicans, "One dollar=One vote." That's how's its been for the past 30 or so years and they are counting on it to continue.
Strange to say, they are rather anemic at fundraising right now. Wonder why?
MyMy
But with the Roberts court it doesn't matter. Where do you think most of the corporate cash is going?
Undo the Constitution.
That seems to be their fondest wish...they want to abolish the 17th, they want to rearrange the 14th, and they want to ignore the 1st. Doesn't sound as if they revere it much.“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
after his pathetic comments re: Park51
someone has the face to remain against the guy.
Last week, everyone and their cousin were denouncing this guy and now that he says something intelligent, all is forgiven.
I didn't agree with lambasting Dean last week but at least let the critics remain consistent...
... that Howard Dean being a human being may operate under the possibility of being right in some issues, and being wrong in others.
It must be awesome being superhuman and all, and not being constrained by silly human flaws such as fallibility.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
Let's not turn into teh stupid:
Ted Kennedy committed drunken manslaughter equals liberal policies are stupid!
Howard Dean is human, and I personally don't find it all that unreasonable to request that this mosque be built a little further away from the former WTC site.
... which creeps me out.
Even though I disagree strongly with the direction of many of the Obama administration's policies. I have no issue whatsoever recognizing that Obama in the case of this whole nonsense regarding that mosque was 100% correct, and Dean was dead wrong. Even though I have found myself agreeing far more often with Dean than with Obama.
It gets really spooky when people are expected to follow politicians as if they were infallible demigods. And as you correctly pointed out, politicians in the big scheme of things are irrelevant... policies and ideologies are what matter.
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apTPXPBMBXk
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
ssomeone says something you disagree with, you think anything else they say is irrelevant. My, that's an open mind for you.
everyone has their personal "litmus test". everyone has an "aha" moment when you learn someone's true colors. for me, this was it. i will never view him the same way again
..all the islamophobic rhetoric we've heard from other sources. Not in defense of those remarks but he probably sees Park51 as a wedge issue throughout the electorate.
If yer fer it, you ain't fit to govern; If yer agin it, yer a true 'Merikan! Pathetic and Cowardly.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
It looks like the Rights strategy for the next election is to actively stop this administration from getting anything accomplished, then say "see, the Dems couldn't get anything done!"
You Win!
“The greatest evildoers are those who don’t remember because they have never given thought to the matter, and, without remembrance, nothing can hold them back,”
Regardless of their lack of ideas, and failed policies, Republicans 'play the game' FAR better than the Democrats do. Just look what they're able to do as the minority. They might not be able to get anything done, but they can sure put a stop to things they don't want to do.
The big difference is that on the important issues, their members march in lock step with each other, unified in their support. Democrats by nature are more independent minded and do what they want. We need an 80 vote majority to do what the Republicans can do with a 40 vote MINORITY!
The problem is that instead of two parties with different ideas of government, we now have one party that believes in government and one that doesn't.
Many Republicans would be perfectly happy to see the government do absolutely nothing.
CaliforniaMike blogs at All Voices and at his own blogs, http://www.mikerappaport.net/onevoice and at http://oneminutewithmike.blogspot.com.
Investigate Obama for starting a war under false pretences?
Oh wait, that's already been done...
Giving out unwanted massages and insulting nicknames?
Check, that's already been done too...
Wiping off his sweaty hands on some other guys shirt and ogling female Olympic athlestes...
Shit...this is getting hard...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
tmi, ys
They gave us "Credit Card Reform" and my APR's went way up.
They gave us "Health Care Reform" and my premiums skyrocketed.
They gave us "HAMP", but they kindly allowed my lender to opt out.
Then they go off about "Professional Liberals" who are never happy about all the great things they're doing in Washington, how I want to abolish the Pentagon and get Canadian Healthcare. I think they rely on our votes more than they probably should.
Louisville Lawyer
That if a deadly asteroid was hurtling toward the Earth, the repblicans solution would be immediate tax cuts and deregulation.
If they are in power we can count on them cutting taxs, raising the deficit and starting at least one war.
...they seem to be able to put the brakes on whenever they want.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
That's at least the equivalent to a bunt and making it to 2nd base. It's all in the POV, Howard Dean. Here are the things that I can absolutely unequivocally 110% count on the Republican Party to promulgate:
(1) more tax cuts, especially to those most deserving big businesses & wealthiest 2%,
(2) privatization of Social Security and Medicare, double-plus-good for the economy,
(3) lowering / eliminating the minimum wage, more jobs & double-plus-good economically,
AND
(4) nothing boosts the economy like another good overseas war -- expect 1 or 2 new ones.
That's not just 1 thing the Republicans can be counted on to do, that's 4 !! That's like a bunt, and a leisurely walk around the base-line to home plate. Consider it less like throwing the game in the World Series, and more like stretching it out to 7 games for the sake of the advertisers (read Oligarchs).
Oh, and our wonderful DLC-led Democratic Party can be expected to facilitate this agenda, all in the name of bipartisanship ...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
It's a bang up strategy for getting a party elected. Not so good for party discipline and governing. Just make sure you run an electable Democrat in every district. Of course the fifty state strategy makes no sense whatsoever unless you back conservative Democrats in conservative districts. If you don't you are just flushing campaign dollars uselessly down the toilet. What you get is what you got. A rather diverse group all calling themselves Democrats and with, sometimes, nothing much more than that in common. I'm not sure Dean, however much I agree with him on actual policy, did anyone a favor.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
While it may be true that voting for Green Party candidates effectively hurts Democrats, the status quo is no longer tenable. Would it be possible to persuade a reasonable number of progressive Democrats who currently hold office to switch to a Green Party affiliation? Perhaps after the election in November? Much of the Green Party platform is more consistent with their values and legislative priorities than is the Democratic Party platform. Since progressive Democrats have been stiffed on the stimulus spending, on health care reform, and other significant legislation, they could significantly increase their voting bloc power if they switched en masse. It would take only a handful of true progressive leaders (Grayson? Kucinich? Sanders? Feingold? Baldwin?) to lead the exodus.
..Dems tend to be more independent and reluctant to vote in a bloc. That's what they have to overcome.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
... for me the main issue is not the Dems voting in a bloc or not. The issue is with Dems voting with Repugs. That is the main part of the scandal, and that is why Dems can't expect liberals to toe in the Dem line when they themselves are not even willing to do so. It reeks of "do as I say not as I do" which is one of the GOP's main approach to politics/life ironically enough.
When you have a significant chunk of the Dems in congress, and the blue dogs in the Senate being indistinguishable from Republicans. And then the Dems accusing liberals of not being "loyal enough" to the Dem causes. It starts to become a surreal situation. The whole "fear of the repugs" stops being that much of a trump card when many Democrats vote in line with the Republicans. At some point it is just too obvious and some people decide to just move on to "greener" pastures (pun intended) ;-)
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
..and I was thinking the other day, the republican'ts can always count on a couple of their members to vote with the Dems, i.e., snow and the other one, lincoln. This adds a small measure of "bipartisanship" to anything voted on. You know, they can say, "No, its not every republican trying to block legislation!" Look at how mostly all of them voted against the stimulus and then were shameless in taking credit for it passing in their home districts when it did the most political good.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
I'm not sure whether it's fear of Republicans or fear of the village narrative. It obviously could be partly both. If it's fear of the village narrative, having a strong Green Party representation would provide an opportunity to articulate a progressive legislative agenda, which the village would have to address, giving it de facto legitimacy in our political discourse.
Much of the Green Party platform is more consistent with their values and legislative priorities than is the Democratic Party platform.
It's easy to be "consistent with values and legislative priorities" when you have no chance of being elected to national office.
They'll defend Christmas!
NOBODY 2012
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