NY Times Urges Bush Not To "Abuse Pardons"; Bill Kristol Urges Bush To Pardon Torturers And Wiretappers
By Nicole Belle Sunday Nov 30, 2008 6:00pm
A tale of two moral compasses. The NY Times issued an editorial exhorting Bush to not "abuse" the pardon privilege:
With the Bush administration drawing to a close, it is presidential pardon season. Presidents have become increasingly shameless about issuing pardons to insulate political cronies from prosecution, even to protect themselves. We hope President Bush will not abuse the pardon power by putting his appointees, political supporters or friends above the law.
The Constitution gives the president sweeping authority to grant pardons. The founders intended for presidents to use this power as an “act of grace” or to promote the public welfare. It was never intended to be a get-out-of-jail-free card for people close to the president who stretched, bent or broke the law.
A nice, if a bit naive, sentiment. The editorial goes on to point out how past presidents have abused the privilege, so it's not without precedent to have Bush issue pardons to whom he wishes to repay for their political loyalty (Hi, Scooter!).
But it is svengaliesque William Kristol whose advice will much more likely be heeded by his PNAC buddies and disciples in the Executive Branch. He argues in his Weekly Standard that the right thing for Bush to do is to pardon any and all foot soldiers in his War on Terror™:
One last thing: Bush should consider pardoning--and should at least be vociferously praising--everyone who served in good faith in the war on terror, but whose deeds may now be susceptible to demagogic or politically inspired prosecution by some seeking to score political points. The lawyers can work out if such general or specific preemptive pardons are possible; it may be that the best Bush can or should do is to warn publicly against any such harassment or prosecution. But the idea is this: The CIA agents who waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and the NSA officials who listened in on phone calls from Pakistan, should not have to worry about legal bills or public defamation. In fact, Bush might want to give some of these public servants the Medal of Freedom at the same time he bestows the honor on Generals Petraeus and Odierno. They deserve it.
Unbelievable. This goes beyond immorality and straight into a complete lack of humanity. And let me for the record reiterate that Bill "Brave with other people's kids" Kristol has NEVER been right. Not once. Not when he cheerleaded the Iraq invasion and lied about the reasons. Not when he cheerleaded Sarah Palin and led the campaign to get her on the GOP ticket. Not once in his weekly appearances on Pravda, er...FoxNews has he ever given even the slightest semblance of being right. And now he goes against his employers at the NY Times (Jeez, what does it take to fire a bloodthirsty, warmongering amoral Republican flack? Obviously as much as it does in the US Senate) to suggest that those who have violated every principle that was supposed to be the American dream should get the farkin' Medal of Honor?
And sadly, the Villagers will look to this and not blink an eye.
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Please
I'm all for a Kristol lollipop.
Should be named by President-elect Obama with the stroke of a pen.
This Commission should be made up of career prosecutors such as Vincent Bugliosi and they should have full subpoena power.
If such evidence is gathered where they feel grand juries should be called and indictments should be issued then that's the way it should go down. This should be a totally apolitical process.
If trials are ordered and those who are indicted are found guilty, then they should be given the fullest extent of any federally mandated sentences.
Although I personally oppose the death penalty, perhaps by the time those being sentenced came around (two to three years from now?), the Congress would repeal the federal death penalty and would instead institute life in prison without the possibility of parole.
If we do nothing less than what I have suggested (and Scott Horton from Harper's magazine as well plus many others concur), then the entire world will consider us a true rogue nation of war criminals with no moral authority what so ever.
Now is the time. Will Barack Obama have the Constitutional and ethical standards to do the right thing?
Since Bush was NEVER the rightful president why should anyone he pardons get a true presidential pardon? Since there is undeniable proof that the election was stolen both terms he served, could congress not null and void all signing statements, all pardons and well, virtually all the illegal things he has done and hold him accountable? How can he possibly legally pardon anyone, including himself when the means by his coming into office was done so illegally? Seems to me that congress could do something about this AND do something to prevent this from ever happening again.
I can think of Scooter Libby and a couple of Enron guys! ...but who else in the Bush admin was convicted of anything?
Justice is such a joke in this country.
9/11
Anthrax attacks
able danger
Katrina
Iraq
afghanistan
Plame scandal
justice dept political firings
torture
weapons of mass destruction
wiretapping
maybe he will pardon Martha Stewart
It's a sure bet that Bush is being lobbied to pardon Pollard.
Guar-on-teed.
What you have is a case of no moral compass, Bush and kristol are two peas from the same pod!
Neither have a shred of morality, honor, integrity, or honesty!
Scum is the kindest thing I could say about them!
.
G.
W.orst
Bush
Do you think his god rewards sinners, too?
.
Wasn't everyone convicted at Neurenberg acting in "good faith"?
and for "...only following orders..."
And maybe they too had all sorts of awards and medals from their Fuehrer.
Realistically I suspect the only justice that will rain down on those who commited these atrocities will be criminal and civil actions initiated by their victims and the families of their victims.
Oh, and maybe a rogue Spanish judge.
Here's the latest website on THAT issue from the fire fighters in New York City:
http://firefightersfor911truth.org/?cat=11
I'd love to see Obama read this website, then ask him what his honest opinion is of the "official" 9/11 Commission Report?
Until the world has ALL pertinent questions honestly and publicly answered about the events of that day, we will not understand how we arrived at where we are today as a country.
We need a LOT of Truth and Reconciliation Commissions if you ask me. Going back many, many years.
Kristol is Jewish, right? Didn't he ever see the pictures of piles of corpses, piled up after the prison camps were closed after WWll?
Does he think the killers of these men,women and children shouldn't have been convicted?
Bush and company are no different, imho, than the Nazi criminals who got what was coming to them. And, if some escaped, there were Jewish people who tracked them down. Argentina comes to mind.
That's the only reply that is appropriate for the crap Kristol spewed out of his mouth.
He would pardon the ground level operatives that physically committed the crimes. Yes I know that all military members have the duty to resist any and all orders that they deem immoral but in this case they didn't and they were under immense pressure to do what they did. The larger crimes are the ones perpetrated by the senior administrators that let and lead to the torture and all the things Milquetoast mentioned happen.
My guess is that Bush will do the opposite. He will pardon the senior administrators and let the junior members who were just following orders rot in a prison when the democrats go searching for justice and attempt to rebuild America's name for justice.
The democrats should go on justice rampage and ensure that this never happens again.
Give me a break, Kristol.
Every person who was ever a member of PNAC should be prosecuted, especially those like Kristol who founded it, and especially those like Cheney, Libby, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld who held high ranking positions in the bush administration.
Jerks and idiots.....all of them.
I hate them as much as anyone else on this blog but unless they worked for the administration, Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Libby the only frime they committed were having bad ideas. I would love to see Kristol in an orange prion jumpsuit I don't think he actually broke the law.
So there is still hope we can get'em in there.
Don't close Guantanamo yet Obama!
Have them all admit to their crimes after being water boarded. The legal challenges would be funny and ironic. Even Christopher Hitchens who is a staunch conservative and libertarian called it torture.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58
Lynndie England or Donald Rumsfeld?
Legally both should be in jail. The difference is Rummy should be in Jail in the Haigue where they will have little mercy for his crimes.
England worked in the kitchen of a prison (Naval Consolidated Brig, Miramar) from which she was paroled on March 3, 2007, after having served 521 days.
She did her time, Rummy however has a lot of time to do!
Since when is Kristol moral? He is nothing but the biggest blowhard of the amoral thugs he speaks for.
"We hope President Bush will not abuse the pardon power by putting his appointees, political supporters or friends above the law."
BWAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAA, Oh that's a good one, BWAAAHAAAAHAAA.. Oh good God, please stop you're effing killing me.
The one good thing about pardoning those who commit war crimes is the fact that the international community views such pardons as admissions of guilt and can issue warrants for the arrest of the Bush criminals. Nope, Interpol can't come here and arrest the creeps (unless they sneak in and kidnap the bastards as our CIA does in other nations--or unless the new US Congress passes legislation allowing Interpol to apprehend war criminals within our border), but if one of the Bushies dare to travel outside US borders, they are fair game.
Maybe these bastards will face some punishment, after all. It's pretty incredible what the Bush administration has achieved in eight years ... the entire planet hates and ridicules them.
If he issues pardons for any crimes that violate international law then we must send them to the Hague for trial.
I am not sure of the legal details but according to Wikipedia if you accept a pardon you also accept guilt in the crime you were pardoned for. If Rummy and the rest of the administration were pardoned for their crimes they would have to admit guilt which would open them up to civil prosecution for those crime by the person or persons involved. I can see 1,000,000 Iraqis with a serious class action suit.
Try Medal of Horror
Anything that comes out of Bill Kristol's rancid pie hole is verbatim Dick Cheney.
Regarding pardons, count on Bush to do the most loathsome, appalling and unfair thing possible. Why expect him to change now?
I fully expect that Bush will pardon boat-loads of people. He has almost two months for the pressure to build.
As wrong as he's been about just about everything, and probably ever, Kristol's own son is in the same ROTC troop as someone I know at college. The boy's name is Joe, and I'm told he's going to be a Marine when he graduates in the Spring. I'm also told that he's a really nice kid, and my acquaintance, a Democrat like her parents, thinks very highly of him irrespective of the fact that his old man is a real blowhard.
Kristol's own kid may very well be serving in Iraq or Afghanistan shortly. So find another way to trash the guy. It shouldn't be too tough.
What's the difference between Bill Kristol and a catfish?
One is a bottom dwelling scum sucker. The other is a fish.
= serving in good faith???
I'm betting Ted Stevens gets one of the pardons, loyal GOP hack that he's been for the last 40 years.
Pardons? Nobody, down to the lowest foot soldier, field agent of clerk, deserves pardons, because in every last case participation in crimes against humanity and crimes against America have been pure matters of choice. They should be prosecuted to the maximum extent of US and international law. Bush was never elected, he was installed in a coup, and maintained the office by stealing the 2004 election. He is the arch-criminal of American history, as are his cronies and puppet masters. At the top of the list for prosecution, after Bush and Company, should be all members of the PNAC, especially for what they did on 9/11. Members of the NSA, CIA, military, law enforcement, practitioners of the healing sciences and arts and others should not be exempt, because they have been committing crimes against the Nation, the People and the Constitution. In every instance, they had a duty and the right to refuse to participate in the crimes but failed to make that choice. They continued to make those choices. They deserve no clemency. Collectively, they have shamed and stained this nation and have no remorse. And because of that, because they have tortured, murdered and chosen sides with the despots and tyrants - and done it in my name, I can summon no instinct to mercy for them.
Sadly to the outside world this nonsense of ' pardons ' appears quite rediculous and personally I find it so. Perhaps the Founding Fathers had good intentions but they would never have imagined crooks like Nixon, Johnson, Ford, Bush x 2 just in my life time. These arse holes have pardoned fellons, crims, and worse of all traitors, yet this stupidity of Pardons carries on. Its time the rules were looked at and to hell with what was intended over 200 years ago, this is now and as Bob Dylan rightly wrote and sang, "The Times They are a Changing", he knew something that boy, they sure have changed. If Bush pardons who I suspect he will, we will look a joke to the world.
Bill Kristol seems to be padding his long history of giving his very poor advice.
Remember, Bill's advice to Bush on going into Iraq?
I do and "Kristol's clear " advice to Bush Adm and the nation was that the Sunni and Shiite hating each other was a myth.
Oh, and how they Sunni and Shiite loved the Kurds so much that they carried out Saddam's murdering crimes out against the Kurds.
My advice to Bush is, hang on to one of them thar pardons for your partner in crime Dick.
Maybe Texas wants more than money out of Cheney for his culpability in the private prison deaths.
It has become quite clear to anyone in the world who can gnash a couple of brain cells together into a clear and conscious thought process that Willy Kristol is irrelevant and nothing more than a third tier hack. The only reason his 15 minutes have not expired to date would be the support Kristol receives from the Rupert Murdock owned Weekly Standard and Faux Noise.
Clearly Willy Boy has exceeded beyond his personal level of incompetence for several years and continues to be subsidized by the same people that helped him establish the Project for the new American Century.
The day when Murdock pulls the plug on this clown will be the end of his career.......such as it was.
Who does the NYT think they're dealing with? Of course King George is going to abuse the hell out of his pardening powers, like everything else. He is a wannabe dictator who would like to flip the bird to Congress and his critics (about 75 percent of
Americans) one last time before Jan. 20.
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