Stoopid Peepul
What is it about stupidity that America seems to love so much?
This glorification of stupidity has been consistently promulgated by films like Dumb and Dumber, Legally Blonde, Dude, Where's My Car, Idiocracy, Borat and - god help me - Forrest Gump. We Americans love stoopid peepul. As much as I enjoy the series Eureka, it's telling that in a town full of geniuses, the schtick is that it’s the not-genius sheriff (at least he isn't portrayed as a slapstick idiot) who usually solves the problem by either shooting it, whacking it with a stick or driving his Jeep into it. The geniuses are stereotyped as bumbling, socially inadequate, skinny, malformed, couldn't get laid if their Nobel Prize depended on it geeks. (Not helped that Bill Gates fits the physical profile). Real life geniuses, like John Forbes Nash, are presented as more cautionary tales - See? See? That's what happens if you get too smart, you become paranoid and go insane. Told ya so. Pass the popcorn, Ma...
Stupidity in politics didn't start with Dubya, however exemplary he is as the ultimate manifestation of incompetence and malevolent stupidity. Nor did it start with the tea-baggers holding up misspelt signs as they march to proudly display their ignorance and pointlessness. It’s endless, just endless…
It's ingrained in the American popular and political culture to exult stupidity and tear down intelligence. Adlai Stevenson's 1956 bid for the presidency was scuppered because he was denigrated by Republicans for being 'too smart', called an 'egghead' as a scathing pejorative, the distrust for intelligence is deep rooted in our history.
Stupid people aren't leaders, they're not even followers. They're the Marching Morons. They're the Eloi to the Morlocks of Coulters, Rushes, Limbaughs, Savages, Hannitys, et. al., who cultivate and nurture their hordes of the slavishly stupid, then feed off them mercilessly. It’s the bread and butter for the Malkins who can claim millions – millions I tells ya! – turned up for the 9/12 marches, then used photos from the inauguration to fraudulently bolster the lie, fully aware her multitude of mindless minions will never bother to check – or ever realize it was all a lie, that a mere few thousand at most showed up, all that empty lawn speaking volumes. (*crickets chirping*) It doesn’t matter to the Malkinoids and the Coulterites if they’re caught out, time and time again, their dishonesty exposed, their self-serving agendas flapping in the breeze like dirty underwear on a clothesline – they depend on the dedication of their supporters to stupidity. They trust in that entrenched compulsion to not-want-to-know, they know they can always rely on those antithetical sycophants of hear-no-evil, see-no-evil, but sure as hell spout off a load of uninformed, boorish, and – so sadly – ultimately self-defeating crap.
I come from a generation where women were struggling to break out of the Stepford Wife, I Dream of Jeannie, Father knows Best stereotypes that held us back - I once had a date kick me out of his car late at night on a deserted country road and had to walk 15 miles home, because I was going to college and had used a word he didn't understand; he felt so threatened by his own ignorance that he took out his inferiority complex on me. I refuse to dumb-down my vocabulary, for anyone, for any reason. I was warned by my family and friends that I would never find a husband if I were openly 'too smart' - men don't like 'too smart' women, they said. They were perplexed that I didn't care; why the hell would I marry anyone stupid enough to want someone more stupid than themselves? And yet… it still goes on. And on … And on...
I loathe stupid people. I loathe them because, unlike those genuinely afflicted with mental illness or disorders, stupid people willfully choose their stupidity. They revel in it, they venerate it, they wrap themselves in it tighter than an American flag and subject their children to the same brainwash-rinse-repeat that incited parents to prevent their children from listening to the first truly educated and articulate president this country has had since perhaps Lincoln tell them to get an education. Horrors, that might cause them to actually learn how to think for themselves, and become Atheists and Communists and Liberal Undesirables. Catchy, that, innit?
So it is hard for me to reconcile this mass approbation of blatant stupidity with the achievements we Americans have given to the world. We as a nation and as a culture have had so many shining, glorious moments where stupidity was forced to STFU. We put a man on the moon - several, in fact - and it was the Failure Is Not An Option inventiveness that got Lovell, Swigert and Haise back to earth alive. We split the atom. We invented the light bulb, the telephone, the airplane, peanut butter and chocolate chip cookies.
We invented the circular saw, the electric hot water heater, the elevated railway system, the engine muffler, the fire escape, Kevlar, the life raft, the medical syringe, the railway crossing gate, the rotary engine, the submarine telescope, the windscreen wiper – all inventions by American women, by the way.
We Americans invented airbags and autopilots, bubblegum and bulldozers, the credit card, dental floss, the flashlight, the Hubble telescope, laser printers, microwave ovens, the particle accelerator, the QWERTY keyboard, radar guns and radio carbon dating, the sextant, the supermarket, the space shuttle, and the sewing machine, volleyball and videotape and the zipper. We invented the Taser, the teddy bear, the traffic cone and – yes – even the tea bag.
We invented the Internet.
We invented the blog.
Educated, creative, intelligent Americans can, have done, and are still capable of doing amazing things. If only we could find a way to invent a cure for stoopid peepul.
... keeps them "infromed," all right.
Goddamn imbeciles. Why can't they all just disappear?
BID
walk 15 miles and I like intelligent women. Are you still available?
Why, yes I am, actually.
has my email address. I'll be expecting to hear from you.
nonny, I think you're off the mark a bit when you lump Legally Blond and Idiocracy in with movies like Forrest Gump.
While LB was, admittedly, a rather frothy comedy, the point of the movie was that people around the protagonist didn't take her seriously and thought she was stupid because of her personality and her looks. The actual story, however (and here I'm discussing only the first movie the sequel was crap) showed her as an relatively intelligent gal who could compete with her peers, including the guy who dumped her because he thought she was too much of a flake. At least, that's how my wife, who got sick of being treated as a pretty, airhead secretary before she went to law school 30 years ago interpreted the flick.
And Idiocracy? Definitely not a celebration of the stupid over the smart.
Legally Blonde. Didn't make all the way through Idiocracy (late night, fell asleep).
The problem I had with Legally Blonde isn't so much that I'm unaware of the intended subtext - 'just because I'm blonde and beautiful doesn't mean I'm stupid' - it's that the movie (okay, I know it's a comedy!) fails to prove this point in any particularly meaningful way.
*Spoiler alert* I don't consider the fact that our blonde but brainy heroine was demonstrating all that much 'braininess' in court just because she knew you don't wash your hair for 24 hours after a perm. That, to me, didn't show any particularly impressive acumen warranting admission to Harvard Law School. If anything, it made the legal system itself look as stupid and ridiculous as our heroine.
Want a counterbalance to this? Try Erin Brockovich - based on a real life 'don't hate me because I'm beautiful' heroine who showed genuine intelligence, courage and determination in a legal battle a hell of a lot more serious than Legally Blonde's weak premise.
I'm surprised also that you had a problem with this film. It is effectively Mike Judge's movie about your blog post. The concept is that stupid people breed because they're too stupid to use birth control and are highly sexually active, whereas the smart people are shown to have slowly been outnumbered over time.
The House of Representatives becomes the "House of Representin'" and the president's national address begins, "Shit. I know everybody's shits all emotional right now..." leading into a song to woo his stupid audience, after which a machine gun is employed.
Oddly enough they depicted a black president, alright. A porn star and 12 time "Ultimate Smackdown Champion."
This film is a look into the darkest fears of a society run by teabaggers' decendents! "The Stupid People Will Inherit the Earth"
for saying what I was going to...Although the movie sucked in a big way I like the premise (but didn't like how it was presented)
Yes, just b/c one is blonde they should not be judge as being stupid. And, I too, was one of those who got sick of the stupid treatment and went on to law school later in life.
jsut sign me LegallyBlonde...
Obama and the democrats are about to lower health care costs for everyone in the country. How will these poor bastards show their appreciation? Use their saved money on making more hitler signs.
You can lead a fool to the fountain of knowledge, but you can't make him think.
doesn't care if you're stupid or smart.
... very much so actually.
The show The Pretender was much much better!
I know what this crop of stoopid people are good for..... slavery. Their handlers think so, too.
Other countries (most recently Canada) are pointing out that the current corrupt state of events in this country are making us look like a nation of 'morans' and they're thinking that we are all nuts.
Stupid dog! You made me look bad!
-Eustace Baag, from 'Courage, The Cowardly Dog'
And the people who they think are nuts would not be able to point out Canada on a map.
can believe nutty things...and even smart people can be indoctrinated and brainwashed.
The morans displaying their ignorance here are a special kind of stupid. They have been failed by an educational system that does not teach critical thinking, and they have been brainwashed by a steady stream of RW radio & Faux News. Some of them are clearly mentally ill, with paranoid delusions.
I don't know that hating the chronically stupid, misguided, and misinformed is going to do liberals any good. We need to focus on why we probably won't be able to pass legislation that 70 percent of the country wants despite the fact that Democrats control the house, senate and white house. That's the real problem, not these stupid folks. I mean they are protesting stuff that isn't happening and will not happen, like death panels and "taking away our freedom." So how could anyone take them seriously?
... the average person in those pictures is aged 50+
It seems that the MO after watching these idiots is trying to throw all sort of excuses/justification and see what sticks to explain their behavior.
It could not possibly be just that these assholes are just a bunch of selfish pricks.
I know of a recent member of Mensa who believes - A) global warming is a liberal hoax; B) torturing people to death is legal and good for the country; c) the US never ratified Article Three of the Geneva Convention.
And I'm rather sure he believes plenty of other nutty things. So yeah even people with higher then average IQs can refuse to use their intelligence.
a high IQ doesn't keep you from being stupid, or believing stupid things, just as a lower IQ doesn't mean that you're not capable of understanding what's going on around you. Some people CHOOSE to be stupid and choose to believe stupid things because it's easier than the alternative - thinking for themselves, and being responsible for the end result of those thoughts.
As a foreigner, I can't help but wonder if great swathes of the American public have simply relegated responsibility for even their thoughts to someone else. And that, my friends, is definitely stupid.
The fact that some Mensa members (a minority) are religious confirms it. But still, it would be far better to restrict the vote to those with IQs of 140 and above than to allow the majority average person (100 IQ) to vote. In my opinion, the average person is retarded and incapable of meaningful thought.
...because the asinine blatherings about death penalties and taking away our freedoms is diverting our energy and attention away from real issues, and having a negative impact on any debate. We will lose being able to hear the quiet voices of reason if all we can hear is the clamour of Stoopid Peepul.
These are not necessarily uneducated, nor Democrats or Republicans, or old white guys or just ordinary people who have no access to genuine information - these are people who CHOOSE their emotions over their brains, who CHOOSE to satisfy the urges of their limbic system over the harder processes of their cerebral cortex. They are WILLFULLY stoopid. I came out of the same educational system and the same economic background as far too many off these 'morans' proudly displaying their stoopidity.
They chose to be what they are.
As I chose to be what I am.
It isn't so much a matter of a failure of education as it is a failure of culture.
that's basically it. people chose/belong to a Culture Club. people will support/vote for their perceived Culture Club. for some the "stupid" is used to describe people that will obviously vote against their own best interest......so to not disrupt/be unfaithful to their Culture Club. this was/is a very smart strategy by the RIGHT in my opinion. otherwise people may vote for their best interest(s).
in my opinion certain demographics in the republican party that are more black and white thinkers. the (r) use linguistics for those type of thinkers. often not always i have found this demographic does not cross reference in fear of hearing something that may reveal there thoughts are clearly wrong.
These wackos would have been arrested under Bush/Cheney and tossed back in the Coo Coo's Nest for electro-shock therapy.
They would have been restricted to a 2 foot by 2 foot "free speech zone" located seven miles from the capitol surrounded by armed guards. They would never have BOTHERED protesting under those restrictions.
The real problem IS stupid people. And it is because of their influence. They are making a lot of noise. Granted most of it is ignorant and misguided and distorted and often tinged with racism and xenophobia. However, the very fear that is working on them to create their anxiety about the government and strangers and gays and that black man in the White House is also working on the legislators (especially those in the House) who are worried about having a job after 2010. Do we pander to all these squeaky wheels that are going to our town halls and shutting them down or shouting down any serious debate/discussion? Do I listen to the 70+ percent of the American public that wants real health care reform but which doesn't get the press that the rabble rousers get? And what if the media doesn't do its job and report on the facts and the truth but gets into the whole false equivalency thing so that some of the craziest things that are said (death panels, for example) get serious time on the air? Do I read the various bills and proposals and get my staff to present me with an analysis of things that I can really sink my teeth into? Or do I go to all the fund-raising events that are on my calendar because I really the need the money so I can either (1) raise enough to fight off the challenge of my Republican opponent who is calling me a socialist/communist/marxist because I support comprehensive health care reform or (2) raise a lot of money at my fundraisers because I don't support comprehensive health care reform and I have no intention of wasting the time of my staff, much less my own time, on something so unimportant.
So, yes, the real problem IS stupid people, because the tentacles of their stupidity are reaching into the very heart of our republic and threatening to strangle it into submission to their ignorance and fear.
The photo link showing the size of the 9/12 crowd has gone to 404 Not Found land.
There are plenty of stupid Democrats and plenty of stupid liberals.
The Democratic Party has to get away from being the party of the better class of people who wear nice shoes and eat fine food.
Any kind of education test for voting (and I've heard smart liberals advocate this many, many times) would work against the Democrats and for the Republicans.
LOL.
... it is not my problem if you are not "educated" enough to understand what I just wrote.
LOL.
you said. All I could do is read what you commented.
This is a guy who thinks "LOL epic fail" is an argument. Proving my point: many Democrats are stupid. But we should love them just the same.
I meant by "false dichotomy" which is what you were engaging on with your troll bait post.
False dichotomies being one of the most basic logical fallacies... sort of points at the fact that you are not that "sophisticated" of a thinker yourself.
The LOL is there because you are funny...
.
maybe he was too "concerned" to figure out the difference.
did you intend to help this stooge usurp this thread?
1) I believe you mean IQ testing NOT education testing. Completely different thing.
2) Your belief that it would hurt Dems and help Repubs is just that - your belief. Therefore you should have prefaced it with - "I believe" or "I think".
You second sentence is SPOT-ON though!
LOL
The mean Democrat or liberal is not better educated or smarter than the mean Republican.
A substantial proportion of the Democratic Party is highly-educated people in academic, high-tech, etc. enclaves here and there, and they really do not have a good idea of how politics works.
I find this kind of talk from liberals and Democrats astonishing. Does anyone here know what a "literacy test" is?
... "factual" is not one of them.
LOL.
Shouldn't you be at a tea party?
... and they sent him to get more. He just got lost.
showing him the Yellow Brick Road back to the teabag celebration?
now you're moving on to the ad hominems. We truly are dealing with a master of education and debate here.
LOL
What about the 2008 election?
There's little educational difference between Rs and Ds. Stupidity is not the key variable.
The most educated and least educated tend D.
Your discounting regionalism.
In the Northernmost states where Unionism may still hold some sway the unskilled laborer does tend to vote Democratic.
Down South the unskilled worker will vote republican because of the so called "Culture War."
The former directly benefits, the latter not at all.
So comparatively speaking, who is stupid?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
In the South the better off and better educated are the most Republican. Poorer and less educated whites are less Republican than richer and more educated whites. Go to Gelman.
Blacks are almost all Democrats, regardless of education level.
hotbeds of Dem advocacy.
Read Gelman. You're misinformed.
got it...
First, I was asking you to read Gelman, not to trust me. Second, what's your point about your "lying eyes"? Do you live in a Southern trailer park and know directly that poor southerners are Republicans?
One trailer park isn't a good sample anyway. Probably you just gravitated to an especially bad trailer park.
based on, among other things, number of Confederate flags versus Old Glory (also Lynrd Skynrd bedspreads) used as window coverings, meth lab arrests versus chemical spills and explosions, average age of "home-schooled" prostitutes arrested per park versus the number of them claiming "head of household" on their income tax returns, etc...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
one tenant, who works for the local cable monopoly, illegally routed a line from across the corporate limit, through the swamps at night after work with his buddies, to his 13" Walmart TV so he can sell admission to KKKlanity, Beck, and NASCAR that isn't rained out. Beer, boiled peanuts, and blowjobs all accepted as currency.
In a "bad" Southern trailer park, tweakers have removed all the wiring and electronics from the park's satellite dish and it is now used as a mini skateboard park to offer possible scholarships in the park's new PE push to provide exercise to youth trapped like sardines, especially in single-wides...
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
your broad-brush is going to get you in all kinds of trouble. You are completely disregarding that higher education may not be the only indicator of intelligence.
I have known some very smart people who for various reason could not obtain advanced degrees. A couple had to drop-out of high school to support their families, but they were not stupid.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
Stupidity is not the problem. There are plenty of stupid Democrats. Education is the best proxy for intelligence that's available at the moment.
I jsut can't believe that I'm having to argue this. The people I know who make a big deal about IQ tend strongly toward racism.
Are you calling me racist?
Is this an acedote regarding persons with whom you are personally acquainted?
Does this claim have a source?
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
we wouldn't want to look at the source! Once you've seen one asshole......
"The people I know who make a big deal about IQ tend strongly toward racism."
You're so full of shit you stink all the way up here in Vermont.
You are though funny as hell.
Or boosh having a diploma from Yale?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
150+ IQ and a high school drop out, But later got enough credits for an Associate degree, just never bothered with the degree itself as it didn't seem worth much.
A recent acquaintance who works as a high school assistant principal told me that the drop out rate is actually higher among the higher IQ students. Mainly because of boredom which of course the NCLB most likely made much worse.
NCLB actually did make much worse...
Also--just to enter the fray--Teh Stoopid does not want uber intelligent teachers in public schools. And, if you are possessed of an unusual intellect, you'd best dumb down so you can keep your job. I had to learn that the hard way--not having a clue just how very much I would have to dumb down...
one such as you, with your "unusual intellect" and all, took such a long time to enter the fray. And, extremely shocked to see that you would "dumb yourself down" once again to actually 'converse' with us here at C&L.......
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Hold on to your resentments much, Amitola?
As I posted before, I do not dumb down for C&L. You get pure, unadulterated me here.
You might want to consider professional help for your personal insecurities about your intellect, Amitola. Remember--when IQ tests aren't timed, nearly all test takers score in the "near genius" range. So, probably you're not a slow as you fear you are.
The problem with your argument is that we all KNOW Republicans. There is no difference most of the time between actual and functional stupidity. Maybe they are naturally just as intelligent (in my experiences most of them are ignorant as hell, not necessarily stupid, they didn't know much about the issues they were blathering about and they usually give me a list of the right wing daily talking points, regardless of their factual accuracy), but they act and articulate themselves in very simplistic ways. Look at any issue, look at the positions the right wing takes and look at their justifications for doing so. Honestly, I've move farther to the left as a result of their lack of ideas. I have a background in economics, and my god is it obvious when talking about the subject. The people do not know economic history, for example they define "socialism" in ways that would damn 99% of the INDUSTRIAL countries, who all without exception developed with massive state intervention. They define so simplistically that it really in many ways describes the CURRENT US economy. In place of knowing facts or history they put bumper sticker, simplistic comments about "individual liberty" and "individual freedom". Once you get passed the empty words and have them describe what they mean you realize that their ideas usually lead to freedom for others, usually for entrenched interests who sold them that nonsense on the radio or TV, and at their expense. Maybe they’re intelligent but they certainly don’t act that way. They’re not even “rational” if you go by the definition of right wing economists.
Let's just do an experiment. We'll see how smart YOU, and the right wing reactionary party that people like you belong to, are and respond to these questions. Our health care system is the most inefficient system in the world. Most of this is a result of the fact that it relies on profits and private interests as much as it does. Administrative costs, marketing costs, executive and dividend payments, profits, all of it is waste and all of this will always be present in a system where profits and private interests are center to the health care system. How do you, people of the same ideological make up and your party fix this? Saying one of those bland, generalized statements doesn't work. You have to articulate exactly how you would solve this problem or just admit that we should have the health care system we have because it benefits you or because you like the idea of it. That’s all you really have.
NAFTA and similar deals have de-industrialized the country, have increased wealth differences in all three countries, have thrown millions of Mexican farmers off the land (which has increased immigration, driving people like you crazy), wages have stagnated for at least the last 30 years in this country except for those at the very top, there is a growing difference between popular opinion on the issues and government policy thanks to the control by financial interests over the government and the environment (at least in Mexico) has been wrecked. What is your response to this? How can you, within your ideological framework, fix this problem? I expect no answer, because you can’t fix it without fundamentally challenging most of what you believe in.
Whenever I ask these questions people like you say nothing but platitudes, which shows just how abstract these issues are to you and how little you can do to defend the status quo positions that are the modern US right wing. As I said above, it doesn't matter if you are more or less intelligent than the average "liberal". You emotionally wed yourself to harmful and logically indefensible policies so most conservatives are at the least functionally stupid. To me, there’s no difference. Both harm me and the rest of the country, and I'm tired of our political discourse being dominated by people who can't even defend their own policies.
One of my "I'm not saying I'm a Republican OR a Democrat, but I voted for McCain because he was the lesser evil" friends recently attempted to debate health care with me, basically because I put him on the spot (much as you describe herein above). He stammered and stuttered through about three questions before he asserted, "Now, I'm just not much of a debater...I just know this is how I feel."
This man is definitively a conservative, and listens to Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity by his own admission. The feeble utterances he offered in response to my inquiries were all the standard talking points of the Corporatists who are scrambling to block health insurance reform--and he could not defend a single assertion, nor could he offer an alternative solution to the reform he was insisting would turn the US into a socialist country (and, no, he couldn't define socialist either...)!
Ohio votes weren't stolen by Ken Blackwell and electronic voting machines I might consider what you say. Of course you would also have to explain why 3 people went to jail over the recounts.
And another died in a plane crash.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
2004? You must be smart if you can justify them with statistics. Can I get a citation from a credible source, please?
Trust me I don't argue with reality challenged wingnuts like you. All I do is have a good laugh.
And I can 100% assure you that Tyler and I are NOT the same person. That's a wingnut trick anyway and you won't see it here at C&L except for the wingnuts.
If "A substantial proportion of the Democratic Party is highly-educated people" then why are you Repubs going to be helped by a "education test" for voting????? I guess you're saying that ALL repubs are even MORE highly educated???
ROFLMAO
Any test that would eliminate the least educated would hurt Democrats. The least educated are already the least likely to vote, and that does hurt Democrats.
right?
But the college educated are also more likely to vote Democratic.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
It varies election by election, except for the 16% with the most education.
Everything varies from election to election. That's why polls are called snapshots of the electorate.
However, what I stated is why conservatives are so quick to denounce higher education as liberal, since even those former students who may be fence sitters, are least likely to take unverifiable statements prima facie.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
could provide an example of a large group of liberals concentrating with the sole purpose of celebrating their ignorance.
Although, I throughly enjoyed the harvest of red herrings he fished in order to deviate this thread from that "fishy" fact.
Some people here may have learned something. Andrew Gelman's book is excellent and everyone should read it.
2004 Election Results By IQ
http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm
The results I gave were patterns of individual voting by education level.
In the red states, the more educated and better-off people are more likely to be Republicans. Gelman's "Red State Blue State Rich State Poor State" has a tremendous amount of data on these things.
... you just linked to an unscientific CNN poll. How you can claim that is a study of "patterns" is beyond me.
Besides, I thought you guys were telling us how wrong exit polls were.
You're at risk of making a fool of yourself entirely, which is ironic considering the topic of the thread.
is so much "smarter."
Oh great rational thinker! Master of the false dichotomy, the fresh red herring, and the desperate ad hominems. The sad part is that I am sure you are the pinnacle of conservative "thought"
LOL.
Tyler, look back at your posts and ask yourself whether any of them would make a neutral reader respect your intelligence. What information have you brought to the table? What arguments have you made? Most of it is debating tricks and LOLs.
... same could be said about your posts. All you have provide is an unscientific poll by CNN, and completely circumstatial personal opinions. You seem to confuse your opinion with fact, and get frustrated whenever someone does not take them as such.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, not their facts.
Besides, you were the one insulting people left and right. For you to claim any sort of moral higher ground is ridiculous. I just write LOL, because indeed I find your arrogant attitude laughable, and I honestly believe that those 3 letters do not have the same level of disrespect than the outright insults you are so quick to throw when you are caught in a pickle and can't provide an actual educated response.
And no, it is not a debating "trick" to point out the obvious intellectually dishonest debating approaches you are engaging in.
You started out with an insult and stayed on that track for a couple more posts. You have brought little or no information about the question at hand to the argument.
I used the CNN poll because it was the first thing I googled. Go to Gelman's book if you want solider stuff.
You've said little or nothing about the real question here, stupid people and politics. I have a point to make, and you've hardly addressed it at any time.
... I suggest you ask for a dictionary or an encyclopedia this coming holiday season.
The point is that you are trying to equate this display of wingnut utter stupidity, and not only that but their sheer pride on said stupidty with the fact that yeah, there may be some stupid people in the Dem ranks. That is however, as I pointed out intellectualy dishonest at best.
BTW, it is you who is making those claims. So the burden of the proof is on you not me...
You apparently took an argumentation class once and are parroting it back.
My point has been that when Demcrats vent about Republican stupidity they're making a mistake. Republicans aren't especially stupid. They have a different problem.
And second, defining the Democratic Party as the party of smart people, and many people do that, is suicidal.
We have to be the party of all the people.
Republican populism is fake, but Democratic elitism is real.
So now it turns you are a "democrat" riiiiiiiiight.
Again, LOL.
Please explain me how voting against one's interest (which is what the majority of republicans do) is not an act of "stupidity."
Again, can you point out at any example of liberals congregating in large numbers not to just display their ignorance, but their pride in said ignorance?
And lastly, it is worth pointing out that the only one making a case for the Dems and their elitist attitude is YOU. So I guess I must add straw men to your repertoire...
For what it is worth I have taken more classes in logic than I care to count. I have yet to see a college offering a class in "argumentation" so I must confess I never took a class in that subject.
Yes, I was trying to talk about Democratic elitism, based on the original post, but nobody was interested. Their problem, as far as I'm concenred.
Argumentation is taught in many colleges, often using Toulmin's "The Uses of Argument".
The Republican-Democratic difference is not a smart-stupid difference. Too many Democrats talk as though it were.
are not necessarily stupid, just greedy! The stupid republicans are the poor ones that always vote against their own interests!
is misinformation. Oh yeah you're really impressing everyone with your brilliance there John Emerson. If you actually do have a "point to make" don't you think it's about time you get to it? Because all you've done so far is sound like you haven't a clue what you're talking about.
Sun, 09/13/2009 - 14:03 — John Emerson
If you can't refute a statement just remember the cliche, It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
I got to burn some fossil fuels to do my recycling.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
But then you have to go by what degrees they get, where in such regions MBA's are very popular, and as a career field more likely to be conservative.
Law also is popular, but more as prosecutors than defenders (unless their clients have deep pockets.)
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
MBAs and lawyers aren't stupid. But they have a narrow perspective and tend to be extremely materialistic and contemptuous of the unsuccessful. That's the kind of problem we're dealing with, smug and hard-hearted successful people.
"MBAs and lawyers aren't stupid."
Is this about how stupid MBAs and lawyers are now? How old are you guys, 18?
I'm not getting sucked into refuting your generalizations by positing the opposite. Have fun with your comment wars, I'm returning to the peanut gallery.
Lawyer and MBAs are not stupid unless 85-90% of the population is stupid.
I was arguing fields that attract conservative mind-sets. I think we're in agreement on your comment at 14:19.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Technically I think we need to define stupid. It's not the uneducated or uninformed, but those who are willingly uninformed, and seemingly proud of it.
A nation of:
http://128.122.253.144/T-Shirts/wlodek/undera...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
maybe the corrupt system is to blame, maybe the ethics of lobbyists buying policy is to blame.
There is no such thing as "pretty much factual"-- Like being "almost true".
Like being an almost virgin
Or a little pregnant?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
sorry about the double post.
So I guess that all those "liberal" grads (which right wingers always complain about) being produced at Ivy League schools are pretty stupid.
BTW, what I would like to see is a survey of the educational backrgrounds of these 9/12 teabaggers.
Faulty syllogism. You are making an assumption that the people of whom you speak (...education test for voting (and I've heard smart liberals advocate this many, many times...) are smart AND liberal.
Since testing for voting rights is not anywhere NEAR liberal ideology, and it's a rather large issue, I would say those people you refer to as liberal, prove by holding THAT belief, are not liberal by by stretch of anyone's imagination well, except maybe yours).
I would also posit that based on the many, many, many times you have heard it (Really? I've never heard ANYONE suggest it), that they are not smart, either.
me-oww!
I spend a lot of time on liberal sites, and this kind of ignorant rant against uneducated or stupid people recurs all the time. Any test whatever that barred the least educated or stupidest from voting would hurt the Democrats. Nobody actually suggests that, but they say things (which are probably just venting) that make it seem that America's big political problem is stupidity. But that's not it.
Ooh...impressive...he knows swear words.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
or a follower of any particular dogma or ism does not make it so. It is the action[s] of the person of group that make it so.
So just because someone says they're a lefty or posts on a progressive site doe not make them 'liberal.'
After your self admitted 7 years on the nets, I would have thought you'd learned that. I figured it out in a day or two, myself.
BTW Swearing = hostility. I thought my question was civil. You said people posting on left wing sites are saying LT for voting. You say that they are liberal because they post on those sites. NEWS FLASH!!! Not being liberal is not a precluding factor from or an impediment to getting posting access on a left leaning site.
me-oww!
he finds himself in a corner,
John Emerson "I've heard smart liberals advocate this many, many times"
And the other John Emerson - "Nobody actually suggests that, but they say things"
Just too funny!
They already outlawed literacy tests in the Voting Rights Act of 1965.
I would presume most liberals know of its existence, and therefore the false syllogism that liberals want an intelligence test to vote is most likely sarcasm, since the underlying assumption is that those who opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1965, would be least likely to pass the test they favor.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
But when people say that the problem we have is stupidity, whether or not they have any serious proposal to make, a literacy test would seem to make sense. But a literacy test would not make sense or help the Democrats, nor would an education qualification, and this kind of venting betrays a misunderstanding of what's going on.
But didn't you say earlier that 80% of the voters are in play, so tthe testing could hurt the Democrats chances?
You seem to be veering all over the map in your arguments.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Testing would hurt democrats' chances because the least educated tend Democratic. Furthermore, all of the various factors that discourage the poorest and least educated from voting hurt the Democrats. Voter discouragement and intimidation is an important long-term Republican startegy (Hans Spakowsky), and it almost entirely targets poor, non-white, and uneducated voters.
According to recent studies, faux news watchers are among the least educated on the issues, and they certainly don't vote Democratic.
We also have people like doughy pantload who doesn't even know his history writing books, expounding "liberal fascism."
And the whole anti medical reform movement is being essentially run by the insurance industries to protect their own industries, and the "controversies" would be laughable, if not so many people seem to believe it.
Additionally, at least the Democratic party candidates tend to run to improve and expand education regardless as to what their ultimate outcomes are.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
"Testing would hurt democrats' chances because the least educated tend Democratic. Furthermore, all of the various factors that discourage the poorest and least educated from voting hurt the Democrats." Unwarranted assumptions. And if, as you claim, "all blacks" vote for Democrats, it is racist, too. Do you think you were being subtle?
I was seeing some of that too.
However, the South overall is considered red territory, and the South overall is considered least educated, due to presumably Nixon's Southern Strategy and the ray gunn/lee atwater/karl rove race-baiting policies since then: everything from welfare queens to Willie Horton.
The North at one time was heavily Unionized, I'm not sure about now, but people tend to vote where there Union recommends, and Unions traditionally backed the Democratic candidate.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Also if 80% or so of the population is least educated, and we use the presumption that the least educated tend to vote Democratic, wouldn't the election cycles of the last 20 years or so reflect that? Instead except for Clinton's 8 years, and Obama's 8 months it was about 21 years of republican presidents.
The Democratic Congress before '94 was primarily due to incumbents having the advantage.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
In general, the most and least educated are Democrats. You got what I said wrong.
.
"Also if 80% or so of the population is least educated"
education levels." Your words. An unwarranted assumption.
Obama approached 90%. Other Democrats get 80%. Income levels don't change it that much. If 80% isn't "almost all" to you, we had a misunderstanding.
That's anecdotal since we're referring to s specific candidate for a specific election.
And some of all races, we're excited by the historicity, and may have voted despite being among the alientated or apathetic voter.
Of course on the republican side was the oldest candidate ever and the first female vp candidate since Geraldine Ferraro.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Sun, 09/13/2009 - 15:30 — John Emerson
In general, the most and least educated are Democrats. You got what I said wrong.
_____________________________________________________________________
So between those that lack education, and those who have scaled the highest education, between them
A little education is a dangerous thing?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
IQ and education are almost a non factor. That's why I think that the "stupid Republican" meme should be retired. The most highly educated tend Democratic right now, but the Democrats can't define themselves as a smart people party.
People can agree or disagree, but I wish they'd try to understand my point first.
Again the "stupid republican" argument is one your projecting on to the rest of us. The thread is about the stupidity of the tea bagger movement. It seems to have been done in jest showing people with misspelled signs, and even holding them upside down.
There might be some other commentary on this thread, but that's merely venting, and no where near as nasty as what republicans say on the public broadcast media.
I'm done here, and adding you to my ignore list.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Democrats cannot define themselves as the "I hate stupid people" party. And far too often, they do. I'm talking about a long-term problem and maybe I went betond what was actually said right here on this thread but this is a real issue.
all your previous comments have been you arguing about the factor of education and now it's a non-factor. Maybe you should have started there?
What I said about the least educated voting Democratic is from various sources, including Gelman.It's true of all races. It's not an "unwarranted assumption" just because you're ignorant.
Democrats should represent all the people. People who despise stupid and uneducated people should not be Democrats. The Democratic Party is not an elite club.
Whose comments were you reading? The history of the last 20 years seem to refute your underlying warrant.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
More ad hominem attacks. I use your words against you, and I am ignorant?
I gave documentation, Gelman. Just because you haven't read Gelman doesn't make what I said unwarranted.
A lot of people here are way meta on the argumentation stuff. What is this, a class assignment?
Oh! I guess that makes everything you say correct. Or plagiarized. So, how was your first week at college, Dude?
And now you're sexist, too. I don't see you calling anyone else "ignorant" or a "moron."
... he called me a moron before, and I am of the XY persuasion.
I can freely admit that I am not always correct.
"meta" concerned fellow.
Savannah is a town and a personal name both.
I am still waiting for a citation for your statistics.
But the other prong of your argument is that the a large number of the stupid tend to vote Democratic, so taken in conjunction with the argument for racial voting patterns the conclusion is obvious.
Unless your argument is that your arguments are not in conjunction.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
...a smart-stupid divide, and Democrats should stop talking as though it were. There are lots of smart Republicans and lots of not-smart Democrats. Democrats should represent all the people, and not define themselves as club of smart people.
Someone interested in my point should read Gelman. Draw your own conclusions. You may disagree, it's a tough book and maybe I'm wrong. There's a lot there.
They aren't
With the exception of the tea bagging movement.
And also voting against their own interests.
As far as I can see your the only one making that distinction between parties in general.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
My point derives from 30 years or more in the Democratic Party listening to this kind of whine.
I was trying to bring up a new topic. No response.
As far as "stupid people who don't vote their own interest" and really should be Democrats, what's the best way to change their minds? Is saying "I hate stupid people" the place to start?
if they had to listen to you, that's for certain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkO87mkgcNo
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
elitist bullies them liberals are, and to prove it he is insulting everyone who dares not buying the copious amounts of hot air coming out of his anal cavity... since he seems to equate such gaseous emissions with irrefutable proofs of fact.
It is the typical tangential argument of trying to equate those pointing out the stupidity of these insane tea baggers, with the folly of the tea baggers themselves. It is a sad attempt at a false dichotomy as I pointed from the get go.
The litany of replies so far have been all but desperate attempts at obfuscating the subject via further tangential arguments. And with a final explosion of appeal to his "victim" status, even though... his great "meta argument" hits included calling people who disagree with him stupid, morons, etc.
The capacity for unmitigated projection and sheer hypocrisy are astounding, stripes showing and all...
Comments are closed on this entry