Happy New Year! It's the End of the World As We Know It!
By David Neiwert Thursday Jan 01, 2009 12:00pm
So it seems there's this Rooskie professor who thinks the United States is going to wind up following the path of the old Soviet Republic:
For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.
In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."
Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.
But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.
Dunno about you, but the results of the last election didn't seem to suggest any dissolution of the United States -- rather the opposite. We seem to be in the process of healing old divisions and coming back together after a decade of Republican-induced strife. We'll see if it continues. But Professor Panarin sounds like he has a bad case of the projections.
Of course, there's always that possible asteroid impact that's been all over the YouTubes, if you prefer your apocalyptic scenarios more, ah, complete.
Either way, I take some comfort in knowing that the cranks who keep predicting the end of the world are still with us. (Oh, hello, Pastor Hagee.) They've all been so wrong over so many years that I'd actually start to worry if they stopped the predictions.
For myself, I look forward to waking up to a new day and a new year this morning. It's as full of risk and promise as every day, but for some reason, this year is already looking better than the past eight. And that's good enough for me.
(Posting will be light today. We're going to be like normal people and mostly take the day off.)
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He got the numbers transposed, that's all. We were taken over by enemies, now we've ousted them. Sorry, Panarin.
Of course, they're trying to do all the damage they can before leaving office January 20. (see http://cabdrollery.blogspot.com/2009/01/fines... )
Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.
John Adams
What if all our creditors decided to cash in and not loan us any more?
n/t
While Prof. Paranin is seeing the current US demise through the lens of Russia's history of Empire, Expansion and Disintegration, still we are incredibly vulnerable right now. While Obama and the last election demonstrate a desire for unity, it only takes a few assholes to start a civil war. Bush an his corrupt, incompetents have laid the foundation for civil conflict and collapse. While I think Russia has its own self-serving reasons for spinning this national narrative, in truth we need to work to make sure this type of scenario doesn't come to pass.
PS: Although it would be interesting to see Sara Palin and her successionist husband fight of Russia's attempt to take back Alaska!!
I see those same vulnerablilities. It would only take one or two stupid acts to ignite a conflagration that would rapidly spin out of control. For example, the Northern Command, which has now been re-missioned to wage war on Americans. If the US military and police forces ever took action against the American People, that would be the end of it, almost overnight.
If we want to make America truly secure as a nation, it is going to be imperative to conduct a "Great Repeal". The Patriot Acts and The Military Commissions Act must be abolished. Posse Commitatus and habeus corpus must be restored. The criminals who have been spying on Americans must be punished and their agencies shut down. Total Information Awareness, which was supposed to be shut down, but was instead renamed and sent over to the NSA must be shut down. The NSA and the CIA must either be abolished or placed under citizen control, such that a citizen board of review, picked in the style of juries, has final authority over any and all activities. The Department of "Homeand Security" must be abolished (only totalitarian states call their nations "homeland"); it's only purpose is the subjugation of American citizens. All Constitutionally objectionable executive orders, going all the way back to Truman need to be voided. You get the idea.
The heart and soul of this country is its Declaration of Independence and its Constitution. The principles they embody and codify are what give our country its life and its only meaningful protection. Anything or any institution that weakens or dilutes the power of these precious documentss must be abolished. No enemy can harm us as deeply or completely as we harm ourselves simply by doing what we been doing these last several years. It's got to end.
It destroyed the entire world.
have its revenge.
"It may be just a crackpot theory"...
But we're reporting on it anyway!
If I wanted censors I'd be on the Fox web site.
Just because some idiot has an opinion does not automatically make it worth listening.
Just another publicity stunt by some jackass...
The problem is that a split is possible, very possible and here is why. We all know that Bushs agenda has been that of PNACs agenda which is one wold government. Since he has failed so miserably in everything, one can assume that such an undertaking by the Bush administration can only lead to the complete dismantling the the US.
Nope, if the USA divides into different subcountries that sort of defeats the whole purpose of the "1 world government" nonsense. Doesn't it?
Exactly
Its not just a stunt. You might want to check into some of the gun forums. These guys have been talking for a while about succession. They already refer to you as an enemy. Look at some of the other posts there referring to SHTF (shit hitting the fan) situations. Who do you think they plan on shooting?
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?...
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?...
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?...
good thing for us you don't have to be a member of a club to have a gun ;)
Well...if that's true, I want to move to the Central North-American Republic.
Not only do they have most of the good farmland, with all those nukes in North Dakota, their defense will be strong to boot.
Maybe I'll run for Benevolent Dictator for Life there and bomb Texas. Would anyone really mind?
Maybe it could be like the good part of Berlin during the cold war?
those bombs quite yet! The New Texas Republic will have control over ALL of our SPACE TECHNOLOGY and large payload launch facilities... so here comes a "fer-real-missile-defense-system" FINALLY to ward off you cheese-heads and all the Nuts and Fruits from the new California Republic.
Only thing tho... anybody want to buy the REST of Florida and Georgia... we got no use for such FLAKES in these New Times! How about if we create a PENAL COLONY outside of Atlanta... and send all the Republicans there?
Heh heh...I like it.
I'm joining the Long Island Militia as we speak. We'll smack down the nasty Wisconsinites with our awesome power!!
that's not a declaration of war.
We, of the Central North-American Republic will not surrender our cheese without a fight, sir!
http://kmwithlori.files.wordpress.com/2007/04...
Like house-to-house urban fighting. But when you guys run into woodlands and, uhhm, great big open fields, I'll take our Upper Midwest hunting skills for the win.
Have to say that increasingly I would not greatly regret it if the South seceded again. I say that as a native Southerner and grateful expat (from the South that is).
is not, "We The People." It's the media and the neocons.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/123108a.html
The local ABC station here in San Diego is airing "Russia Today" around 1 or 2 a.m. I don't know if they're paying for it, or being paid for it like an informercial, but I don't like that the station is using public airwaves to distribute Russian misinformation.
American disinformation?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eyFiClAzq8
Are Obama and C&L following Bush's lead by remaining silent on Israel's War on Gaza and occupation of Palestine?
Is this a fair definition of a blind spot in the US "liberal" blogs: the US War on Iraq was a "mistake" or "incompetently executed", but the US War on Afghanistan and the US Proxy War on Palestine (and Somalia, et al) are "good" wars in a justified and righteous US Global War on Terror?
Or is that unfair?
Just saying. Have a nice day, everyone!
Afghanistan was considered a good war in part because they were supposedly giving protection to Osama Ben Laden and Al Qaeda. They tried to play legalistic games, but even if they wouldn't turn them over to us, they could've back to Saudi Arabia, since so many were from there.
But as I tried to explain to people at the time, the sounds deceptively simple. The Taliban government could've been just as scared of Al Qaeda as much of the rest or the world, and afraid of aggravated internal strains.
I do believe that the legalistic games you mention that Afghanistan was supposedly playing were when they asked the US for proof that Bin Laden actually was reponsible for 9/11.
To this day the Bush gang still has not given any proof that 9/11 happened the way they said it did. The FBI does not have 9/11 listed on their reasons why Bin Laden is one of the most wanted. Several of the so called terrorists, have been found to be alive. The "confession" video by Bin Laden was so obviously a fake that a 5 year old could tell the difference. The government promised to give it's evidence out shortly after 9/11, they never did.
So, no the war on Afghanistan is not a justified war either.
ysbaddaden... can you explain the U.S. policy towards Pakistan in the 4 years following 911? The Taliban were going back and forth over the Pakistan/Afghanistan border and we installed a puppet who was corrupt and aiding the death of U.S. soldiers.
Same could be said about our buddies in Saudi Arabia who were funding the insurgency in Iraq.
There are no good wars... and that's not an idealist philosophy, that's seeing through the ridiculousness of us propaganda, it doesn't follow reason.
Pakistan has nukes.
Does Canada really have to get some of those mid west wingnut states dropped in our laps ? Would pull our national IQ average way down.
Let the trade talks begin. How about Kansas and Missouri for Washington State ?
You just want our outlet malls and Indian casinos!
I wonder where this leaves me since I live on the land of the Tulalip Tribes, a sovereign nation.
"But Professor Panarin sounds like he has a bad case of the projections."
He's actually not alone on this. James Kunstler, whose book "The Long Emergency" has been loudly trumpeted on this very site, has been saying for years that the U.S. is ripe for breaking up into some sort of "less-than-federal" regional units--maybe not countries, per se, but not "united" states, either. Why? Availability of natural resources, particularly declining oil.
I'm not going to argue the merits of this perspective. I'm simply pointing out that this projection isn't "crank" simply because it comes from a "Rooskie" or because he's the only one talking about it. Many more prominent writers and thinkers have discussed this idea for some time.
And just because someone suggests a major change may be coming to our "vaunted" system doesn't mean they're predicting "the end of the world as we know it." That's ethnocentrism on your part. They all have their reasons for saying what they're saying. Some may be their own nationalistic allegiances, but others have facts. And the fact is, no "democracy" (of which, I remind you, we are not truly one anyway) has lasted as long as we have to date.
The notion that a federal republic like ours might collapse into, well, something else, is the norm, not the exception.
This has apparently hit a nerve. Newsflash, millions of Americans believe this... and they're not all "cranks".
What the usuals on this site and most of the mainstream fail to realize is that the money interests that control this nation (trans-national corporations and the Federal Reserve) have absolutely no national allegiance... remember the Federal Reserve is a private institutions with foreign capital interests at the helm.
Bush, his family and business ties as well as the Federal Reserve were never interested in the preservation of America, in fact, quite the opposite if you recall H.W.'s famous mantra... "NEW WORLD ORDER".
Call me a crank too, then try to rationalize active combat battalions being transfered from Iraq to the 'homeland'.
It is make it or break it this year and don't think our broken government is worth saving.
.
There WAY too much raw material in Alaska to hand it over to a bunch of Corrupt Ex-Pat Republicans. I say put the Republicans into GITMO... and hang on to Alaska for future OIL, STRATEGIC MINERAL EXPLORATION, FRESH WATER SOURCE (melting glaciers,) and expecially... FISHING AND HUNTING VACATIONS.
the professor is wrong. We've already been taken over by the dirty commies!
All powerful nations in human history peaked, then fell from power and fragmented- be it Greece, Rome, Britian , Germany or the USSR- the same will happen for the US-
As long as the bible thumpers are not in my area, I could adapt if the east coast beacme a new nation- i'm in Boston- Not sure the east coast would join the European union-
Im sure the racists and bible thumpers would try and revive the vile southern Confederacy..
Seriously, ALL nations that rise do come tumbling down- but I wouldn't expect a total collapse for another 50 years...
I used to drive people crazy back in the 80's when they would ask why I was against nuclear weapons that ray gunn pursued, he even spoke of limited nuclear exchange.
I would answer, "Every nation in the past has always fallen, and American will be no exception, and I don't want us to take the world down with us."
My only real problem with what the professor is arguing is in his division of the regions. The actual fragmenting of our country into localized regions--based on resources, shared history, "culture" (if being "from the South" might be called that), values ("Bible-thumping," for example)--seems completely plausible to me. When times get *really* tough, what do people tend to do? Downsize, shed their excess, localize.
I don't think the professor has as great a grasp on the competition of regions as he might, though. For example, Southern California would likely not wind up in a region with Washington and Oregon, but Northern California might. Why? Geography, maybe. Types of resources available (primarily, WATER!). People will look to what they "possess" that can be used as a commodity. If they need each other, they'll bond together. If not--or if a locality were seem as a drag on the rest of region--theirs will be shed.
Keep in mind, this will likely happen based on "survival mode" thinking. Otherwise, there's no need for the system to change. But if a needed change is perceived, it's liable to be everyone-for-himself. We won't trade one state for another simply because that state has beautiful geography. States are an artificial construct; what will matter are limits imposed by geographic features--mountains, rivers, deserts, etc.
by regrouping into groups of "states" that share or need a common resource. Water indeed would likely be a crucial one.
Doubtful regions would neatly segregate into groups like mapped. Hopefully, we won't have to find out.
It was called "Jericho" and it was canceled for low ratings.
When I saw this the other day I thought the exact same thing. I think they showed it on MSNBC or something.... they are talking of it on CNN right now. I couldn't help then but laugh.
Would it really be so bad? I'd love to be part of the California Republic.
Maybe Grass Valley or someplace....
Santa Barbara's pretty with the vineyards and all the cool swimming holes!
would be a military power. why? Lawrence Livermore Labs, Port Chicago (what's left of it) the refineries.... muajajajajajajajaaaaaa!!!!
You all seem to miss the part where the professor said that it would be under the influence of China.
This country is extremely--and dangerously-- polarized: economically, politically, ideologically, every way. Something like 46% of all voters (the biggest turn-out ever) indicated they'd prefer another 4 years of the murderous, criminal, feculent bushit than install Obama in the presidency.
Those folks aren't gonna go away, and mostly they're not gonna convert to Obamism, either...
You bet this country could blow right the fuck apart...
rest of the south. We'd be more likely to take a few extra Caribbean islands to expand our territory.
I think, he may be right, not by 2010 unless we are attacked by say, Russia, North Korea, Mexico,Iran, and Venezuela/South America/just a guess.......
His division of the states are way off, Pennsylvania for 1 would have to be split down the middle or the west and east needs to converge on the center and expel the freaks back down south where they belong. I would think allot of the east and west would go with Canada. Hey whatever, as far as I am concerned the America I was taught about in Middle school doesn't exist. I say it is too far gone, most of the laws protect the rich and nothing to protect we the people. Wonder where the government and rich people will hold up? Couple states south of Pa and a few states west of Virginia? Maybe the Government in Pa could actually kick all the democrats out? They have been doing a good job for the last 20 years running out all who oppose the fascist rule.
Silly blue state don't you know your RED.(PA)
I can see western PA, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois and Minnesota- and maybe Iowa and Missouri- as one solid block of states, but I don't see what would tie these states to Montana, the Dakotas, Nebraska and Kansas. The latter group is chiefly rural and agrarian, the former industrial.
On edit- And I can't see either of those two landlocked groups of states surviving on it's own, because they're landlocked. I can see the first group, with the Dakotas and W VA, but without Missouri, allied with the Atlantic seaboard states, from Maine to Virginia. Missouri, Kentucky, Nebraska, Kansas and Oklahoma ally with the former Confederacy (minus Virginia), the remaining states form a western alliance.
was not going to hang out with the industrialized blue state Northeast.
If we can talk sense into Ohio and Indiana, we're a solid block of industrialized Yankees with most of the clean fresh water supply in the country plus a major load of farmland. Chicago and NY united? Makes more sense than not. "Second city" is more of a sibling rivalry type thing than a serious insult--plus Chicago still has the rail lines, access to Lake Michigan, and O'Hare, making its status as a port city extremely valuable again.
All y'all down South and in the arid deserts gonna have to be nice to us or find a way to tow an iceberg or two your way.
If you don't know it, it costs as much to haul a load of soybeans overland from the Dakotas to the Twin Cities as it does to haul those beans on a barge from the Twin Cities to New Orleans, where those soybeans are loaded onto ocean-going ships for export. Just extend the rails/roads to Duluth,MN/Superior WI and you can load directly salties for the trip through the Soo Locks, the St. Lawrence Waterway and Europe...
The Wall Street Journal is getting more and more like the National Enquirer.
so no surprise here.
So which region gets to keep the wars? Do the rest get to wash their hands of that and walk away? Who keeps the military?
Can we get dual citizenship? Will we be able to fly over the flyover states safely?
All joking aside, I really would have no problem with the south seceding again. And I actually live there (although I'd move to the north if that happened).
I'm pretty sure Idaho would not want to have anything to do with either Washington or California. California would do quite well on its own and could make more money than ever before by becoming an import/export country for the rest of the continent.
Not without water.
However, you're right on about Idaho. The concerns of most Californians and Idahoans hold nothing in common--except they both want water. One has it, one doesn't. My guess: Idaho won't sell.
Who da' Ho?
Ha!...California has proven itself incapable time and again of even handling it's budget...I think Schwartzengroper just asked for some bailout money a little while ago...never mind water!
They could easily work trade agreements for discounts on ships out of Long Beach.
Seattle- and no need for water there.
Well, when we kick out all the Republicans there will be plenty of water. Plus we won't have to waste it on growing food for the rest of the country (as we now know it). Also we have been sending so much more money to Washington D.C. than we get back I think out budget problems will be fixed. Especially after we jack up the price of weed.
No, of course they won't sell. They're extremely concerned about their diminishing aquifers in an extremely water-dependent state (particularly for agricultural use).
Deport all the Texans and you'll free up a ton of water.
My thoughts exactly. How did we, in the newly formed Californimerica, end up with Idaho and Utah? Even Arizona is kind of a stretch, but at least we'd gain one of the Seven Natural Wonders of the World, with the Grand Canyon.
If we did end up with Arizona, would John McCain stay, or would he emigrate to Texistan? And will Arnold Schwarzenegger finally get his wish to become a President? Surely, one of the signs of the Apocalypse.
I have been thinking lately that I kinda don't have much use for the South these days.Might as well throw Arizona in with Texistan and we can treat Idawho like we treat Fresno.
Western Washington keeps a hold of Eastern Washington then I would think that Idaho would stay with them.
While I believe his timing is off, I share some of Panarin's concerns.
Naomi Klein has already showed us that many wealthy organizations enrich themselves off of disasters, and that many politicians make political hay likewise. The collapse of the U.S. would simply be the ultimate (on a national scale) end of that philosophy.
Many corporations would relish the U.S. breakup. Federal regulations, currently unenforced by the Bush Administration and hopefully to be enforced under Obama, would disappear overnight. The resulting set of smaller countries would lack robust laws and regulations, and would be ripe for corruption (consider United Fruit Company in Central America).
And many politicians would rather be the big fish in a small pond than be an also-ran on an national scale. I'm sure Blagojevich would rather be King of Chicago than its mayor, that Bush would enjoy retiring to be President of the Texas Federation, and Sarah Palin already considers herself the Queen of the Nation of Alaska.
No, the Soviet-style collapse of the United States is NOT something to be scoffed at. Too many rich, powerful people and organizations would stand to make a fortune feeding on our nation's corpse - possibly even the heirs of Prescott Bush, who was happy doing business with Nazi Germany.
n/t
You nailed it.
We're really only one major economic catastrophe away--and by catastrophe, I'm talking major meltdown, not just a "major corporate player," like AIG, Chase Manhattan, or General Electric going into receivership.
Close the banks and zero their balance sheets, and you'll see this happen. There will be bedlam, and out of bedlam will rise regional protectionism.
n/t
and prescott's grandson made it so very possible.
Idiot thought is overwhelming in Texas. However, my guess is it just gets worse the more southeast one travels. The unbelievable stupidity in a land of inexpensive self education is heartbreaking. The bigotry is horrible. And Bush-love is revolting. My hope is that with dems in majority and a progressive prez will improve the lives and contribute to some enlightenment.
Imma Texan.
Methinks this Boris is jealous. Russia's greatness is behind them with the Tsars and later the Communists. They temporarily came back with the high price of oil, but now that oil prices are falling for now, their future is uncertain again.
About 'Russia's greatness is behind them'. Particularly when the U.S. is more politically fractious than ever before as well as nigh on broke.
Russian people seem to have pissed off some deity big time at some point in the past. I can't recall any other people in history catching as few breaks through history as the poor Russian populace.
You have been paying attention to the Democratic party for the last twenty years? Two decades & no evidence of what happened to the DNA that constitutes a SPINAL COLUMN?
We are still not broken. We haven't hit rock bottom yet, & we are too fat & spoiled to stop the bad habits that got us into this mess. We won't change until we are forced to.
It sucks, we will lose the greatest empire because we're a bunch of self important Veruca Salts.
Calling the United States an empire is the exact kind of thinking that has us in such a precarious situation. The United States is a great country but so are are many other countries. War Hawks, NeoCons and the like just think we can bomb our way out of deficit spending.
I live in Texas and agree with all your comments...BUT, I just came back from vacation with my husband's family who live in Maine and Massachusetts and are not uneducated. The Bush-love and Obama-hate are alive in New England, too. I almost fell off my chair when my husband's aunt agreed with the claim that Obama was born in Kenya. Thank goodness my in-laws (although Republicans) don't buy into that crap.
*edit* This comment was supposed to be directed @ Thu, 01/01/2009 - 11:47 — RobertD */edit*
Very insightful comment.
And I don't think any of this is unlikely, either, by the way.
Many people have been calling this for years. Things are unfolding in an unsurprising manner.
Yeah, I really don't see any "conspiracy theory" thinking involved in this scenario at all. It seems totally plausible. As I said above, I just disagree with how his regions break down.
bilderberg
world bank
wto
NeoCons
you're kidding, right?
Don't forget the IMF.
"I have met the enemy
and it is the Republic of Texas"
- California Republic Deputy Kahuna Pogo
There would be a war?
To keep Texas?
BYAHAHAHAHA
Texas happens to have a key ingredient needed to run the war machine which is oil. Also, Texas would be hugely strategic because of its geographic location not to mention home to some of the largest military bases in the entire country.
Maybe just the threat of this breakup happening will spur a new interest in the breakup of mega-corporations and the formation of smaller companies, just like the phone company. Smaller, regional budgets are easier to manage also. I can see some positive side effects to all this. It all depends on the ability to get power, food, water, etc.
do the same, without splitting the US into smaller pieces.
Not sure which is a more likely scenario, though...
reinstating/reapplying the anti-trust laws would be the best option but with most of our representatives in congress on the take from corporations I don't see this happening.
this topic is not a good harbinger of things to come. I hope I am wrong.
and thanks to Dick and Georges' 'leadership' (I use that term in the loosest sense possible) our country certainly does not enjoy the respect and admiration it used to, but that has to biggest stretch I've heard in long time. Is it just me, or does anyone else think the Russian Government is once again getting into that saber-rattling crap they did when she was the Soviet Union? Yes Dick and George have definitely not made us stronger, but weaker than ever known to be.
God's speed and protection President Obama.
I think before Obama takes the oath of office, they'll require him to take a urine test to make sure it doesn't contain God's speed.
undetectable by mere mortal means...
Yes, there are a lot of idiotic Repubs around here, but before you decide for Texas to go off on its own, you might want to remember this: Texas on its own has enough oil to join OPEC. Unless you can get off the oil teat completely, you might want to reconsider your rash statements/actions. The US is far to interconnected now to split up, and it'd be far to difficult to split the country up fairly between decent people and republicans. Might want to think about "United we stand, divided we fall".
of Texas, or Texans.
NEVAR!
The North American Union (NAU)? The Security and Prosperity Partnership (SPP)? I thought the plan is to get together with our buds in Canada and Mexico and make a super-duper NAU? With a brand-new worthless super-duper currency - the Amero?
I think the professor is right - we will be seeing the end of the world as we have known it, but I don't think the US will be breaking up into the kind of regional realigned "countries" as he outlines. I'd be more concerned about the entire global economic system collapsing and then having nasty weapons getting into the hands of idiot politicos (like say, Dickie and Georgie and Vlad and Kim and ....). Whatever happens in the next few years, it ain't just gonna' be a problem for the good ol' US of A.
"...and then having nasty weapons getting into the hands of idiot politicos (like say, Dickie and Georgie and Vlad and Kim and ...."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7hIZss1b0Y
?
.
...and following that logic Russia will Nuke us in 2015.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Titor#Predi...
Funny Ivan sure whatever you say, Let poke holes in this,
1. Alaska back to Russian Rule? HA HA HA, Yeah sure man you must
be on some good chronic comrade!Yeah America is just going to Give you Alaska and all that Oil and Gas.
2. The Eastern States would never join the EU, Remember my little KGB friend the 13 Colonies fought a war to be free from Europe, Those people would never summit to EU rule.
3. The Republic of California? First off Washington St citizens hate California with a Passion, Oreogon Cititzens hate California with a Passion, and I really doubt Idaho Would ever allow a Government in California to dictate to them! Washington State is the 6th Largest Nuclear Power in the WORLD! Our Submarine force could Crush Russia in 8 mins!
So my poor retarted Ex KGB shit for brains, America is country divided and in a Economic downturn, You forget about the American spirt that always carries us through adversity and Hard Times, Yes
American's are being lead down the path of One World Government and the Destruction of our Constitution, But most American's are Good People who when the chips are down care for their own, We are not Stupid Russian's that would sell their mothers for a bottle of Vodka when times are hard, So my little KGB flunky half wit, Here is an Idea for you Comrade, Make your prediction into a board Game for all of you poor Losers, Remember Comrade we won the Cold War and the USSR went Poof as shameful foot note in World History. You Russians are so Stupid you think Stalin was a Good leader, That would be like Germans saying Hitler was good for Germany! Russian's You are a great source of Laughs, Now go down to your Mcdonalds and have a big Mac, Taste your own defeat!
Atlantic America and the California Republic can keep the businesses and intellectual property and the rest of the continent can be claimed by the snakehandlers to destroy at their own expense. I think a California-Atlantic alliance can cut a deal with Alberta and mobilize the fossil fuel resources there until the coasts can convert to a fully solar economy. By that point, the rest of the continent will be in a dark-age regression and probably substantially depopulated due to religious wars, plagues and environmental collapse. Retaking those states and remediation of them into habitable bastions of civilization will be much easier then.
I'll just keep doing the best I can. That's all I ever do...and I'm OK with that.
Happy New Year, everyone.
I am amused by the utterly fantastic map of the splitting up of the USA.
Also the comments in regards to mega corporations benefitting from smaller central governments.
Could it happen? Could the USA split apart when Europe has strengthened itself by unifying itself under one currency, and cooperative laws?
Seems that we would once again be going against the grain of popular thinking if we were to break apart.
Personally I have felt that since Ronald Reagan tweaked southern states with his message of "states rats" (read it with a southern accent), we were moving towards a southern divide.
However in the current political climate where everyone who can gnash a few brain cells together, knows that it has become toxic to ones moral well being to believe in anything the Repugs have to offer as solutions.
Calm the f$#k down people, we need to worry more about how the world, including our strongest allies will react to us as we try to mend out our self inflicted wounds.
It would not surprise me in the least if members of the UN feeling bitter about the thievery on WAll Street, declared an embargo on goods to the USA as punishment for allowing the Ivory Tower Pirates to loot the worlds wealth.
But hey, if we did split up....don't mess with Missouri! We have Whiteman Air Base........and we will not be afraid to use it........peace out!
The Space Aliens will sort it all out in 2012.
Now let's not jump the gun and shoot the messenger.
@Last Election:
I am unaware of the exact numbers but while Obama did win the electoral college with a landslide, he the popular vote was not so clear.
So a little more then half liked Obama and the rest want him hanged. That is not a gap you can bridge by just 'crossing party lines' and building a bipartisan government.
So there is a division that should not be overlooked.
@Separation of States:
While I also think how the states are separated is kinda funny, the groupings would really indicate maybe the mindset of how things could go.
Sure, one state might not like the others but what if they had to take sides in a fight?
The popular vote was 53% to 46%
Not enough of one, certainly, to convince any legislators who might be on the fence to come down on Mr.O's side...
But when Bush won by even less, the pundits, ditto heads, newspapers and right wingers all said he had a "mandate". What we are talking about is a huge landslide in a country like ours. .All republicans who do not cooperate should be completely marginalized like the obstructionists they are.
Obama is black, if he was white the margin would have been crushing and obvious to even the most retarded of all right wingers.
They come in different degrees?
when we attack the southern states , can we keep the women we capture or do we have to turn them over to the officers!
the FEMA trailers they spawn in...
I for one welcome my new Canadian Overlords.
:)
Welcome to Canada. Heres a Health Card, box of Molsons and a pound of back bacon. Now lets have that gun...LOL
Not with out an April Wine cd...
you shall drink the manna of Tim Horton's as your reward.
They've been predicting the end of states and the rise of regionalism in our country for over 35 years now.
And the End of the World since the Bush Inauguration...
Oh yes. GW Bush has been so great for this country
Yes he has, much like battery acid is good for getting stains out of fine linen.
The Republic of Cascadia will NEVER join with our neighbors to the south! Our mighty Sasquatch Militia will defend us to the bitter end!
New England has enough industries and locally available hydroelectric power from Canada to tell the snakehandlers and the Wall Street gangsters to take a flying leap. It was most of the US at one point in time and did just fine. We can't go on for another two generations trying to make nice to the snakehandlers and gangsters. It's like trying to manage a country of human beings and monsters like the creatures from the Alien movies. It just can't be done. So, who wants to make the first call to Harper to make a deal on hydropower?
This "professor" is impacting his own prediction simply by making it.
I may not agree with the right wing nut cases and out and out shit heads, but the disaster that would be the dissolution of the US not only for Americans but the rest of the planet is not something i want to attempt to live through.
Red states Utah and Idaho joining Washington, Oregon and California? Alaska joining the Russians? New York and South Carolina?
Must be some good vodka there in Russia this season.
Breaking up the United States is something I've advocated for a long time.
If the Civil War has taught us anything, it's that you can't force people to believe something. Those inbred Rednecks in the South are STILL fighting the Civil War, and they're not going to quit.
It's because of the red states that there is still no consensus in this country on issues like evolution, gay marriage, global warming, separation of church and state, etc. Most of the rest of the civilized world has gone beyond fighting over these issues. As long as there are asshats from the South who continue to have influence in the US Congress, there never will be consensus.
So...fuck 'em. Let them have their miserable Confederate States of America where they can bash gays, establish Christianity as the official state religion, let corporations dump raw sewage into the drinking water in the name of "freedom", teach their kids that evolution is "just a theory" and that brown people are genetically inferior, or whatever type of bullshit doctrine they decide to adhere to.
I'm sick of fighting these battles. Fuck 'em.
..as long as they stay "downstream" of the rest of us. But, I hear some talk about how the magnetic poles of the Earth are in a changing mode, and I don;t want that raw sewage and religious garbage seeping back up into Eastern PA.
First, the Federal Gov't would have to go broke which would over-burden taxpayers. Oh, damn! I'm getting ahead of myself ...
Then the government would begin to default on obligations like Social Security, or Medicaid, or have to privatize it, or some such. Oh, wait ... shit!
Our military would have to be over-extended, over-worked, under-paid, and burned-out from too many tours ... and ... holy christ, we can't afford them and the feds will have to cut their pay ... bu-bye military might. We're broke, we're starving, sheesh, it's like being a satellite of old Russia.
By then, government is so ineffective, you could DROWN IT IN THE BATHTUB ...
Desperate people would look to local and state government ... which in turn would seek out regional agreements with other states.
Holy crap ... the USA would be breaking apart ... ah-aeeiiieeee ...
in the past have risen and fallen. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the greed factor has started the fall of the USA. It won't be the end of the world though. Hardly. At the end of the day, an overwhelming majority of people would choose family and friends over any nation, regardless of what kind of brainwashing has been used on them since before they started the public school system. I'm sure there were many that never thought they'd see the day that there was a nation called Israel. I'm sure there were many Romans that felt they'd rule forever. And Greeks. And Egyptians. And British.
.
Queen of England still have some say 'bout what goes on in the Canada?
Heck, she has no say in what goes on in England. She is a figurehead. That's all. The Pope has more power over his subjects than the Queen has over her corgies.
And she's represented by the Governor-General, iirc...But isn't the Governor-General propping up the (minority) Conservative government in Ottawa right now?
Also, as part of the Comonwealth isn't Canada obliged to go to war when Parliament in London goes to war?
Is a figurehead. She isn't propping up the government. She's following old school protocol, and cannot really make any decisions. Being part of the Commonwealth comes with no more obligations than being a member of NATO, or having a deal with the US. Those are signed agreements that really have nothing to do with what the Queen does or can do. The only nation on earth that still thinks the Queen does anything besides smile and wave, is England. If her position was abolished tomorrow, it would make little difference to Canada, or Australia, or any of the other "Commonwealth" nations. She has about as much power in Canada, as I do. Very little. It's like our Senate. They do nothing. They can't even deny passing into law anything Parliament does. They are there just to rubber stamp and remind of yesteryear.
I understand.
You can back out of the UK's wars, though? Were any Canadian units mobilized (translate to Canadian: mobilised) for the Falklands War?
at all. The British got quite a lot of help from the US though.
Argentina got some help from France- at least weaponry.
isnt obligated to no nation in particular. The Brits didnt need us for the Falklands anyways. Jean Chrietien was smart enough to see Iraq for the phoney shithole it was but we did get sucked into Afghanistan on the same set of lies. Once bitten.I constantly remind fellow Canucks that Harper has said he would have dutifully followed Chimp into Iraq had he been PM at the time.You have to consider the source though. Harper is the same dolt that thinks a minority government is a solid mandate to ram right wing crap down Canadas throat. I do hope Parliament shows him the door come January 28th.
What if on January 28th, Harper refuses to open Parliament?
I believe more and more that this is our future. I'm guessing by 2030 IF we continue on our present course.
After decades of America-fucking regionalists, proud know-nothing religious fascists and corporate media the venerable Union's ties are very frayed as illustrated by the tone of this discussion thread.
I agree with a lot of the comments - it's just the consequences of such a thing are incomprehensible.
Actually my theory is that the United States, Mexico, and Canada are going to join as one union in the near future. It's already starting to happen. I'm always right, too.
Nothing to see here. Just keep shopping and keep watching TV and "hoping" the new guy will save us all.
Baaaa
The kind of change so many work hard and have been wanting will be for nothing if Americans think change occurs only through elections. We have to make sure the changes are implemented and call out the Democratic leadership and Obama every damn time.
Start cutting all these Congressional committees and subcommittees. There are many that are necessary but for too many that do nothing but take away our representation because they water down legislation in committees. Lets see Congress debate and get our representatives on the record. Drive out the special interest.
For 50 yrs. I've been told that Jesus is coming next week. Just in case I'm building and ARK! "MARY....make sure there are 2 pot plants,one male and one female!!!".......
That's Noah, not Jesus.
Could we at least put one of the late George Carlin's routines to practical use?
This would involve fencing off Kansas, Wyoming, Colorado and Utah and converting it into a giant prison farm. This would take care of three almost irretrievably insane states and one (Colorado) that's borderline.
Unlike the Soviet Union, which was comprised of 15 different nations with way different cultures, the US is largely homogenous from coast to coast.
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