and another here

gump-- I haven't said all cops are bad (if you look at my comments). I've said tasering is too easy. It generally doesn't result in death. It makes it easier for an angry cop to use the taser, and in situations where I highly doubt they would shoot.

This call was a medical emergency, not a crime in progress. I asked if he would have shot the guy given the nature of this call. (we would hope NOT.)

I know how cops cover each other's backs, which makes tasering anger retribution in many cases.

Why does yours have more clout than mine?

I've seen it, witnessed it and been a victim of it.

And you?

I don't have a close friend who was a cop but I have a father who was a local cop, state cop, and ATF agent, a mother who was a local cop and a federal law enforcement agent, a brother and cousin who are currently local sheriff's deputies.

Every single one of them got into the business not "to serve and protect" but because they are adreneline junkies. Carrying firearms just makes them believe that they are badass tough guys; but all of them are simply assholes. I never in my life met a law enforcement agent who was not a bully in or out of uniform.

It seems as though your experience as a police officer is now a relic.

This isn't about the weapon!!!! It's the person using it. He has no right being a cop. I'm not sticking up for this person. This is what people aren't understanding. Law enforcement officers are not all bad. Yet I'm being portrayed as some right wing fascist for defending cops. This guy is an idiot, and should be in jail. But his actions does not define all cops. That's all I'm saying. To be attacked for my stance and to attack all cops because of what one man has done is amazing.

And I completely agree. My problem is not with how tasers are used. Well it is but in regards to this story my problem is people trying to make all law enforcement seem like the Iranian Republican Gaurd. Law enforcement goes to far at times in certain situations. This is not the case. This guy was completely out of control. But many people here are trying to make all law enforcement out to be the real enemy of this country. And that's simply not the case. I would guess that 90% of our countries police force are doing a great job protecting us. And then we get that 10% who abuse their power and we have people here trying to say they're all the same. It's just not true.

Well said :)

quit projecting already. sheesh.
:)

I'm kidding gump. I see what you're saying.
But I'd say more than 10% of the Sparky patrol is bad.

You're calling them Sparky. That says a lot. I respect you, I've read a lot of your post but I completely disagree. What if the news posted all the good things and all the bad things we've read about the cops. I'll bet ya 99% of the news would be good. But in order for the media to sell, all we see is the bad. Even here. How many good stories do we hear versus the bad. Nothing good. the only time we hear about a cop here is when something bad happens. We don't hear about a cop rushing into a burning building to save a couple of toddlers. We don't read a story about some cop putting himself between a drug dealers bullet and a pedestrian. When a cop Tases someone with diabetes, that's huge news. I'm just asking to be objective and fair and not use it to sell.

I'll call this cop Sparky.
That was a joke relating to the SCOTUS saying the electric chair was cruel and unusual punishment. Yet we give law enforcement their own little electric jolt guns.
I suppose it's better than a 9 mill slug. Some people need to be restrained. Maybe a knock out gas of some kind. I don't know. But electrocuting someone is not the answer.

Obviously this cop is an exception.
But, he's not alone gump.
I'd say more than 10% are bad to one degree or another.
I have friends who turned out to be cops and firemen and military, just like everybody else.

You have a nice night gump.

This cop and FAR TOO MANY like him. That's the problem.

It just seems to be that since 9-11 there have been too many stories of abusive cops.

It's like torture is being normalized, even for the citizenry.

I agree with Gump

Too often on thread like these I see pissing contests between those who would claim to be, "More liberal than thee."

However, I see similarities with the Nuremberg defense, that "I was just following orders," when in actuality they were often bucking for promotion or attention by being more ruthless than thee.

But cops turning in other cops is a problem, when you have to depend on the other to watch your back.

Not quite, they're a unit.

And even an accused cop is presumed innocent, and can be cleared, and everyone on down turns on the accuser.

But similar to a gang, they can be likened to sub-normative groups, who often come with their own codes of conduct, and windows of percepts.

It's also why most courts keep witnesses from sitting in the same room, and testify in court one-at-a-time, because often without knowing it they adjust their stories to confirm each other.

Even during initial interviews with the police, witnesses seem to instinctively seek to please the questioners. They can be manipulated in this way, and the police know it.

It may be part of Stanley Milgram's unethical discoveries, and indicative of how we're educated to please the authority figure for positive secondary compensation.
But in this particular case I don't see how anyone can justify eleven jolts.

I think it's the individualism of the country. Although the individual should be more powerful than the state, individuality is also a form of social breakdown.

If it were an organic body it would be mouldering.

It's kind of like if you're in the Air Force everyone thinks your a pilot

Or if you work in a college, everyone thinks you're a professor.

How do you know they're not cooperating with the internal affairs investigation?

After years at the PD, I can tell you - a much higher proportion of investigations than you'd ever believe actually come about because another officer came forward. Sometimes, those whistle-blowers pay one hell of a price. And even knowing that might happen, they still come forward.

But those stories don't make the news.

And just because you see a 'protect their own' attitude, doesn't mean that's all there is. No, for the most part, cops don't throw other cops to the wolves - in public. Behind closed doors? There's nothing more brutal to a cop than another cop that thinks he screwed up. They defend each other publicly, because so many times the public attitude is the same one you're displaying - one bad cop means all cops are bad.

There are abuses. But it's not the standard. A taser probably does give a false sense of security to a cop. But we need to look at the big picture. A cop faces life and death decisions. But he is human and will make mistakes when under pressure. This cop is not a good example of that. He's the criminal here. He abused his power and should be jailed. But he is not every cop.

Actually pepper spray is still used. The taser was primarily to replace the choke-hold. It was killing too many people in the early 80's, I think in California in particular.

That would require releasing personal information that the S/M would probably delete.

Trust me, I'm not a giant, jealous, Welshman.

Go ahead.

Here, I'll give you something else to chew on since your mister know it all.

I had a good friend in NY who was a cop, who's best friend was a gunrunner. Whenever I visited him he offered to give me a throwaway because the city was so dangerous.

Oh, I guess I made that up too (except I didn't) want some more?

The last refuge of a conservative, name calling. A fraud? You're a child. I win, you lose. You wanna call names, fight with someone else. You can't deal with it, I hear Hannity's website deletes post that don't fall in line.

He's only saying your over-generalizing from the particular to the general.

In this case, the zapper was the particular.

specific thread was about several cops, not just the one who tased the victim (notice, not a suspect)and I found it quite feasable this type of thing happens all the time. Again, coming from personal experience.

Someone took it personal and started with the dismissal. It wasn't me.

{ This is over. Both of you move on. SiteMonitor}

I apologize. Shit gets heated at times. Sorry Rich. Good talk.