Here's The Lowdown: Are The Affordability Credits in The Reform Bill Affordable?
By Susie Madrak Friday Oct 30, 2009 12:00pmThe Politico, via email:
If the House and Senate are forced to water down the public option (to, say, negotiated rates in the House and a Senate trigger), liberals will have a much weaker negotiating position in the Senate-House conference committee. So look for liberal pressure groups to work on moderate Dems big in coming days as it becomes increasingly clear that the public option’s epilogue could be cast in the debate’s first chapters.
Progressives, start your engines! We have a lot of work ahead of us.
In the meantime, I've finally located the numbers for premium subsidies - or, as they're called in the bill, "affordability credits." Here they are, and as I thought, the numbers simply aren't realistic.
The bill provides financial assistance on a sliding scale. Premiums range from 1.5 percent of income to 12% for those at 400% of the Federal Poverty Level. The plan provides additional assistance for households up to 400% of the FPL by limiting cost-sharing to 3% of plan costs at the lowest tier, to 30% of plan costs at 350-400% of the FPL.
For instance: If your income is under 133-150% of the poverty level, your premiums will be limited to a range of 1.5 to 3%. That means you'll pay 3% of plan costs, with an annual out-of-pocket cap of $500 for individuals and $1000 for families.
And so on:
150-200% - 3-5.5% - 7% - $1000/$2000
200-250% - 5.5-8% - 15% - $2000/$4000
250-300% - 8-10% - 22% - $4000/$8000
300-350% - 10-11% - 28% - $4500/$9000
350-400% - 11-12% - 30% - $5000/$10,000
The Federal Poverty Level is:
Persons in family
1 $10,830
2 14,570
3 18,310
4 22,050
5 25,790
6 29,530
7 33,270
8 37,010
For families with more than 8 persons, add $3,740 for each additional person.
So although I've been on unemployment for the past year, I would be expected to pay approximately $4000 a year. Huh? Your individual mileage may vary, but those figures aren't very reassuring to me.
Do the math, and let me know if you think this is affordable. If it isn't, it's time to push your representatives into doing the right thing.
Login or Register to post comments.
"...it's time to push your representatives into doing the right thing."
You said it! People, get out there and let them know this is not acceptable.period.
Medicaid.
You may think, "We'll, I don't qualify for Medicaid".
I do believe there is a very good possibility that many, many more millions of Americans will fall into Medicaid once all the dust is settled in 2013. It will all be figured according to your income from the prior year.
You may be Medicaid "eligible" and not even realize it until you are "auto-enrolled" without even knowing it. You may then be caught in a "program" where you cannot even find a doctor who will accept Medicaid's substandard reimbursement rates. You certainly will not find the same standard of physician that an individual with "private" insurance will be able to see.
Furthermore, if you happen to own your home or have any assets, you may end up losing your home if you need to tap into Medicaid for a major hospitalization etc. via the program known as "estate recovery".
This is an example of what activists in Massachusetts have been TRYING to explain to folks in the blogosphere.
Right now, more people are dropping out of the Mass Plan/month than are joining. It is more "affordable" to pay the fine that to pay the premiums that the "Connector/Exchange" tells individuals they can afford.
The true DEVIL will be in the details of this legislation once all the dust settles.
We are being played for suckers here just as badly as we were a year ago when Paulson and Wall Street robbed the Treasury.
People don't "get it" now....but once the gouging and penalties and estate recoveries kick in everyone will be SCREAMING.
But then it will be too late.
BTW...Susie, have you heard any news about whether or not Rep. Weiner is still going to bring his H.R. 676 amendment to the full House for a debate/vote??? Or did he and Pelosi decide to just "move on"...?
Promises....promises....
Pelosi squashed it.
and the Kucinich Amendment.
Squashed like bugs.
This is the health bill that Obama and Emanuel has wanted and fought for behind closed doors from the very start..
Everything else has been lies , deceit and BS>>
Obama / Emanuel have become the Bush / Cheney empire's 3rd term with different BS.
The democrats are becoming a joke... Of course Obama was not my first choice for president and now I see why I felt that way..
It is a d... shame that progressive can not select , support and vote for a real democrat like Kucinich or Dean instead of these republican centrists democrats...
Obama has broken every important campaign promise he made to us.. Obama said anything to be elected and now he and Emanuel are telling to go to h...
Wednesday, September 24, 2008,,,Obama's speech from Dunedin, Florida
http://speeches.demconwatchblog.com/2008/09/o...
Change means a tax code that doesn’t reward the lobbyists who wrote it, but the American workers and small businesses who deserve it. I will stop giving tax breaks to corporations that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America.
I will cut taxes – cut taxes – for 95% of all working families.
I will finally keep the promise of affordable, accessible health care for every single American. If you have health care, my plan will lower your premiums. If you don’t, you’ll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves. And I will stop insurance companies from discriminating against those who are sick and need care the most.
I am starting to believe Emanuel is getting Obama to do as he did for Clinton in 1993...
Work to get the illegal immigrants legal after he passes a bill which will give health insurance to the people which have no income on the backs of US...
Saw Weiner on Countdown, he said that Pelosi will let him bring his amendment to the floor.
Kucinich is still a no-no, I think. Probably because while it will bring attention to him, would not
be anything positive in purely political terms because single-payer is not going to be on the table
no matter what.
More likely - if indeed today's CBO score is a death blow - is cutting the Bill in two, and get passed
this year those elements that directly concern the insurance companies. And leave the problem of the uninsured (which is the core of the current PO) for next year or beyond......
In fact, I am certain you don't.
The Weiner Amendment would replace the entirety of the House Public Option bill with Single Payer (HR 676).
The Kucinich Amendment would allow states to experiment with different healthcare systems, including statewide single payer.
To think that Canada has a health plan in which their citizens buy for $54 or least is their income will not support it..
Their yearly cost is less than a monthly payment for Americans and they are not restricted from buying into the health program..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_C...
**
Americans are being feed BS on a daily basis..
Everything is not only done behind close doors , but His change has become a CHANGE from his campaign promises..
Will not renegotiate the free trade bill to protect American jobs.
Will not reverse the Bush welfare tax cuts to the wealthy..
Has not started withdrawing American troops from Iraq as soon as he took office..
There is never a debate about giving money to the military (which receives over 54 percent of our national budget and more than all other countries combined).
The democrats have no problem passing supplement military spending & giving our money to the banking empire and even with no oversight.
The passed the million of dollars in the clunkers deal , which foreign auto makers jumped with joy when the sold their cars which were setting on their parking lots in our country..
They seem to be able to give the Global Empires all the tax cuts , welfare and no taxes they demand... Then the corporations send their jobs and manufacturing plants overseas..
It is now time to reward the Global Health & Drug Empires because they have been left out of the other welfare programs.
But the government can not do their fundamental job of protecting our constitution , freedom and their citizens health , jobs and security..
Is the amount cheaper than private insurance?
If it is then it will drive down the cost.
Otherwise, it would drive down nothing. It would not even be part of any "market" let alone a market force.
What you are paying for health insurance??
Just think about one thing.... If the health & Drug empires are receiving 30 percent of the money spent of health care , than that would be a little under 30 percent off of what health insurance costs Americans today..
So if you are paying $9,000 , it would drop to around $6,000 a year.
So if you are paying #6,000 , it would drop to around #4,000 a year.
We are not only being screwed by the health & drug companies , but ?our? represenatives have joined with them..
Driving the costs down to a less unaffordable amount won't make costs any more affordable. This is like throwing a life preserver to a paralyzed man, and feeling proud because your throw landed it only 25 feet away from him instead of the 50 feet away someone else had thrown it. The net result is still going to be drowning...just drowning a little closer to the thing that could have saved you. In my day they called that "cold comfort."
Pretty much.
That this piece of garbage will do that.. The way I see it , it will go up even more and yor are FORCED to buy it anyway..
This has become a complete sellout..
How can other countries give health care cheaper and to more of their citizens than we can..
Because our elected officials are all bought and paid for...
I bet you that most of the representatives have not even read the bill , much less know what it does..
Emanuel has told them what how they (by way of the health & Drug companies) should vote or they will not be supported or funded by the DNC...
Not the weakened version. Which has been Ron Wyden's point all along. Look for his amendment to get
traction in the Senate (though not with moderates).
throw me in jail then. Because I simply don't have $2,000 left after paying home expenses and buying food.
Let's not go overboard . . .
"Individuals who choose not to obtain at least basic health coverage will be subject to a modest penalty
based on 2.5 percent of income"
Just a fine. Like a ticket. You know for driving without insurance? This is living without insurance.
They also offer hardship waivers for those in need or without income.
what if I don't pay the fine?
what if I continue to violate the mandate by continuing to neglect to give Blue Cross / Blue Shield a $5000 check every year?
for crying in the night ... you people thought the drug war was expensive, ineffective and asinine?
wait till they implement the "how come you ain't got no doctor" war..
I guess the simplest way to deal with the whole problem of 60% of American bankruptcies being due to health bills is easy. lock em up if they don't pay their bills, amirite?
this is a gigantic handout for a really crooked industry. this is another damn bailout. I'm incredibly disappointed. I will continue to vote for Senators Wyden and Merkley from my home state, but I don't think President Obama should consider my vote a sure thing when 2012 rolls around.
to pretend that this is actual reform is to presume we're inattentive, to presume we're stupid. this bill is incredibly offensive. I voted categorically Democratic in 2008 because I wanted universal health care, not because I wanted to pay bigger bills every month.
The federal government can garnish any future tax returns until you're all paid up.
To force Americans to hand their money over to the Health & Drug empires..
This has become a routine for these arrogant corporate controlled officials.. They just force us to give our money to these criminals, as they gave our money to the banking empire.
We are the only ones which can stop it.. If you do not have the b...s for protesting against these Corporate government employees than we are grass and they have become the lawnmower...
The elected officials have made a pack with the Global Giants to invade countries which they wish to take their resources and change their government.
To pass legislation which enables them to sent our manufacturing plants and jobs overseas where they have join in partnership with the foreign government businesses.
They have transferred our economy , democracy and power to these Global Empires.
This government is no longer for , by or of the people , but has become a Global Empire looking for worth dominates
100% of drivers don't have accidents! 100% of humans DO NEED HEALTH CARE AT SOME POINT!!!!
I have no problem paying for health care. I do have a very big problem with useless scum being paid millions of dollars in the health care industry who SUPPLY NO HEALTH CARE!! I'm NOT subsidizing the insurance corps million dollar CEO's and that final!
Become the subsidizer for the Global Empires..
We are funding the war which also includes the death and wounded soldiers or our country..
We have subsidized the banking empire, the auto manufacturing, which includes the foreign countries.
We have subsidized the worth with American jobs/
So now the government says it is time to subsidize the health & drug empire..
Why do you think the democrats do not correct the corrupted electronic voting machines!
The elected officials have reversed their job description.
Instead of them being the employee and we the employer,,, They have taken the roll as employer and is telling us we are the employee..
They prove it daily..
Over half of the citizens wanted the war to stop and they say NO>
Over half of the citizens did not want to give the bailout to the banks
and they said YES>>
Over half of the citizens wanted at least a real robust public option and they again say NO>
if I don't?
what happens, if I decide no, I don't want to give Blue Cross / Blue Shield $5000 next year?
do I go to jail?
But they can take it from your pay check before you receive it.
They can take it from any account you have in the bank or your retirement program.
They can do any d... thing they wish anymore.
They broke our laws in making us pay to these private crooks our money even if we do not have it or what it...
Obama and the democrats are no change in the corrupted actions and polices from the Bush/Cheney administration but have become the 3rd Bush / Cheney administration.
Remember ex-Attorney general Mulasey said that all crimes are not crimes to be prosecuted..
If Obama and the democrats will censor evident of their criminal crimes and stop any and all prosecution of their crimes that tell me were in the h... is there a difference..
Do you really believe that Obama / Emanuel and the democrats have given us a Change in policies and a transparent government??
Looks to me like the same old BS... Obama and the democrats meet behind closed doors with the health & drug companies to create this health bill which will give new billions of dollars to these empires while they force us to give them our money..
Same as the banking empire and the auto foreign manufacturing companies...
We have no manufacturing plants or jobs.. These inability to manufacture a vaccine for the flu and the H1N1 shows us that we no longer have the manufacturing ability to take care of the citizens of this country..
They will have vaccine for us after their manufacturing plants they outsourced to foreign country take care of the citizens of that country..
In my many years of different Presidents , Senators , House of Representative I have never seem such a group of arrogant corporate own representatives that do nothing for the citizens of this country.
They have even sold our soul to the company stores..
As far as people between 150 and 200 percent of poverty paying 3-5 1/2% to 7% is fine. The problem is what the federal government poverty level is. Take the FPL and increase it by about 25% and increase the minimum wadge to $10.50 per hour and automaticly increase both yearly with the COLA. Also refigure the COLA to include food and energy.
Set the minimum wage at X times the cost of base insurance?
Dear Friends,
Congressman Dennis Kucinich will be a guest on:
MSNBC, The Ed Shultz Show
Friday, October 30, 2009, at 6:30pm EDT
The Re-Elect Congressman Kucinich Committee
http://healthcare.kucinich.us/petition/
Shows the stupidity of the American voters,,, They left Dean and Kucinich of the sidelines while electing a corporate republican president..
If you can not tell by now that Obama is kissing the a... of the republicans while passing and protecting their policies and crimes, than there is no longer any hope for this nation..
Obama with the advice of Emanuel has sold us out...
Obama has broken every important campaign promise he made to us.. Obama said anything to be elected and now he and Emanuel are telling to go to h...
Wednesday, September 24, 2008,,,Obama's speech from Dunedin, Florida
http://speeches.demconwatchblog.com/2008/09/o...
It's more expensive to live in NYC, Chicago, and other big cities than in rural areas. Low income rents are based off of area median incomes, and insurance should be as well.
Yes, people living in big cities will receive more subsidies, but MORE PEOPLE live in the cities, and the idea is to make insurance affordable for the PEOPLE, not to give profits to insurance companies.
Or at least, that's supposed to be the idea.
I was going to post the same point but in a different way. Using the Federal Poverty Level has nothing to do with regional affordability. Actually, people living is cities are penalized, especially renters (most poor people) in expensive places.
For instance, comparing cost of living in Bakersfield vs. NYC @ $10,000 (poverty for a single person) means that if that person lives in NYC he would have to make 107% of that in order to make an equivalent salary, or $20,700. The person in Bakersfield receives 2 dollars for every 1 dollar the city dweller receives.
I wonder if that is a solid unbias source?
I wonder whether, when they calculate your "premiums" whether they mean your share, or the total your employer and you pay (for those with workplace coverage)? Also, when they say "out-of-pocket" do they mean true out of pocket, which is employee-share of premiums plus cost-sharing, or just the cost-sharing?
Because most ways I calculate this on the back of the envelope, this works out fairly decently for me -- a savings of about 20 percent. Only in a couple of scenarios does it come out to about a wash.
Our household will pay nearly 15% of our gross income for insurance premiums once we have pay the full COBRA premium. We are over the 400% limit so none of the subsidies would apply to us anyway. What will happen once my current contracting gig ends (we've already had a couple of furloughs) and a new contract is at a substantially lower rate or I end up taking a full-time position at a much lower salary. We've already taken one significant income hit after I was laid off from a Fortune 500 company after ten years of service. (Being hard-working, dedicated, innovative, cost-conscious, etc. doesn't count for much of anything any more.) I'm so looking forward to explaining to my daughters that they will probably not be going to college like mom and dad. Hmm... maybe if I take an even crappier job... The way the job market is nowadays, that may just happen.
My wife and I are retired, and under 150% of the 2-person poverty level. We're okay now. Good bless Amnerika!
Requiring us to pay money to a private insurer is unconstitutional. I don't know why more liberals don't mention it. Not only are the House and Senate bills a joke, but they are entirely, 100% unconstitutional, at least they were when I went to law school. I know that Scalia, Roberts, Alito, and Thomas are a bunch of wackjobs, but there is still no provision in Article I of the US Const. that empowers Congress to enact a law requiring people to pay money to a private entity. I can't think of a single example (probably because no one was ever so corrupt as to propose such), can you? It took the 16th Amendment to allow the Federals to impose an income tax. There is no provision in the Constitution that allows them to require us to buy private health insurance, and the necessary and proper does not save the baselessly wicked and outrageous plans that Congress is considering. The idea that health insurance costs are $4,000 per year on a per capita basis are ridiculous.
Jimbojames: Medicare Part B already extracts 98 dollars per month from oldsters. I believe your interior panic button may have been pushed by the threat of serious income redistribution, and I say it's about frickin' time!
Medicare Part B is voluntary, you sign up for it and the $98 is subsidized single payer, it is a good deal. Medicare isn't complete but that is another matter.
---
For profit health insurance is barbaric.
We need HR 676 at minimum.
It sets the leftmost limit on the final product, and it already looks far more like a corporate giveaway than a path to a universal quality health care.
A bad bill is worse than no bill.
I will NOT pay money to a for profit health insurance company. Ever. This is the biggest sell out ever. The industry won and we lost. Thanks Obama and Democratic Congress. Fucking amazing that lobbyists actually write legislation. Why bother with federal government? Just skip the middle man, stop playing games and admit the lobbyists are in charge.
I am NOT going to subsidize insurance companies CEOs massive incomes at the cost of Americans receiving ACTUAL HEALTH CARE! It's just not going to happen. I'm more then happy to chip in my fair share to have ALL American receive adequate health care. But I'm won't spend one dime so some lazy rich loser can live an aristocratic life style!
So 2 adults can live on $10,381 per year? I never knew the official "poverty levels" were such a joke. This explains the "400% of..." thing.
I suppose if the levels were indexed to CPI and reset to realistic levels, eliminating the need to legislate with multiples, the U.S would have an embarassing level of poverty. The disappearance of the middle class would be much more obvious.
Indexed for inflation, my math teacher pay is less than I made as a night shift computer operator when I was in graduate school. The gap between the super-rich and the rest of us has become truly obscene.
$10830 is for 1
$14570 is for 2
It isn't much.
you live 4 families to a small house, buy your clothes at thrifts stores and grow your own food you might survive on that.
It is putrid, remodeled chinese drywall. It is poisonous salmonella contaminated chicken.
This is an offer of bullshit from the house of lords and bribed people to us peons.
They deserve to have this kind of coverage, and we will take theirs. Tell them to go to hell, as we are not asking, we are demanding a free health care system for everyone. Or is the mafia pulling the strings?
Give us a bill that covers everyone and everything or go to hell. Your former voters will help you with the latter, they only demand the former. What's it going to be you pathetic bribe taking plutocrats?
Why pass a law that anyone can see is simply unenforceable? And when the first people are arrested for failure to pay, the bill will be overturned, IMO, as unconstitutional. Nuts.
As is this health care bill is a complete sham and a gift to the Insurance companies , Wall street and the corrupt scum in DC ... the yellow dogs and the Repugs . All that bribe money and the hiring of spouses and relatives paid off . It's ANOTHER corporate give away , absolutely . Gee , what an F'n surprise huh ? I hope they vote this down and can't pass the damned thing .
so does this mean that everyone who is unemployed
and on welfare or unemployment will be fined if
they don't have health insurance and don't
sign up for this royal fucking by the govt and
the health insurance corporations? just asking.
You got screwed.
Sooooo haven't heard about the fines yet, what are the fines going to be?
> So although I've been on unemployment for the past year, I would be expected to pay approximately $4000 a year. Huh? Your individual mileage may vary, but those figures aren't very reassuring to me.
What would your insurance cost you if you had an actual job? You will go back to work at some point, right?
How long till your unemployment runs out?
What would be reassuring to you, free?
This is not the final bill, is it?
11,000+ a year per person or so, is the norm right now, correct?
Please post some actual details of these 'fines' we'll be charged with for not getting any insurance. I for one would like to learn more on that part of all this.
How much would your insurance cost you (job or no job) if McCain had won the election?
We must start somewhere. You are not going to hit the lottery here no matter what. Quit waiting, Susie.
Honestly, I read your posts sometimes and wonder what side of this you're really on. The lines have been drawn clear on this site many times. Lately, they've become a bit blurred with posts like this.
> ...If it isn't, it's time to push your representatives into doing the right thing.
How the hell do you think we got this far? Sitting back watching faux noise eating cheetos in Mom's basement?
Let's all just throw our hands up and go home. They won't give us everything for free!
Is that it, Susie?
"What would have happened if McCain had won the election...."
Let me try to get a serious answer to this extremely stale talking point.
If McCain had won, it's barely possible the Susie would not have been forced to buy junk insurance, with the IRS acting as a collection agent.
There are times when no bill is better than a bad bill. This is one such time.
... and wouldn't have any insurance at all because the "free market" prices with no reform would be at least 500% higher than what she is bitching about here, and she wouldn't qualify anyway because of several pre-existing conditions.
... but other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
... a dose of sanity was badly needed.
I can see the commentors have been playing attention. Yes, I believe we are getting screwed and there will be hell to pay for Republican and Democratic incumbents in the future. They will push the effective date off until after the 1012 elections as they know the currently inattentive middle/working classes will be in total rebellion once the mandates, fines, and penalties start. They simply won't have the premium money. This current pack of bought off corporate butt huggers must be planning on retiring with their govt. healthcare by the time this really hits the fan. We need single payer, the end of private for profit healthcare insurance, and now we don't even get a strong public option to make this a more palatable temporary fix. Finally this bill vaguely promises that premiums will not go UP as fast as they have been, not down at all.
CBO score today says the "weakened" PO will only be able to enroll about 2% of people, will have weak
price negotiating ability, will draw mainly from a "sick" pool (i.e. the current uninsured) and will have to
have premiums even more expensive than those of the insurance companies.
My crystal ball is still intact: I foresaw and wrote about this dilemma/risk for the PO if it couldn't be set up to maximize the pool. I never saw it as the bogeyman that would destroy the insurance companies, my concern was that the pure economics of it (given its restrictions) would make it less than viable.
Is there a politician inside the beltway who will speak against the myth that everybody making a near-minimum wage is living with their parents and eating free? Such a wonderfully rich country. All those kids living at home could surely scare up a couple thousand out their drug and plasma TV money for health care, right?
Really. If this passes, it's roll out the guillotine time. The ruling class is operating _way_ outside reality in thinking there isn't anybody _really_ poor in America and in thinking that the cow hasn't already been bled dry. This should literally explode the myth that anybody lives on $10,800/year when the government comes for money for health care out of that laughable gross income. So the solution is what? Debtor prisons (with health care)?
I think you meant to say "opportunity to learn about shared responsibility in a rural setting."
Right?
I understand that the "creative class" is writing the training manuals and the other protocols right now.
I hate to tell you but the people in the countries that have single payer pay at least this much.
you are trying to interject reality into chicken little Susie's dream world.
Not nice.
Instead of noting how very much less insurance would be for her under the proposed law that what it costs her now and recognizing that she couldn't even get a new policy today because of pre-existing conditions ...
she'd rather bitch that she will not get something for nothing.
Boo fuckin' hoo
that show that people in countries with single payer who make $23,000 a year are paying $2,000 to for profit insurance companies? I'd REALLY like to see that!!! IF the $2,000 goes to HEALTH CARE there IS no problem!!! It's the fact that most of that is going to end up in the pockets of the wealthiest in our society instead of going to HEALTH CARE that's the problem!!! Is there some part of that that you are incapable of understanding?
Ask someone to prove something they never said or even implied.
The point is that via whatever means (including higher taxes) people in the countries that have single payer pay at least this much.
Period
No point was made about for profit or public.
In fact Susie's post was mostly just whaaaaaa, I can't afford that much even though I'm paying more now! Nothing about who the payment's going to.
So your while little red herring is interesting, it is not in the least bit relevant to the comment you replied to.
Susie, don't yoiu pay for COBRA now? How much a year is that?
$511 a month ($6132 a year)
In other words Susie is bitching about paying about 33% less than what Susie herself said her COBRA was costing her now.
http://susiemadrak.com/2009/03/24/11/22/fund-...
My current premium for our family of 4 (if my COBRA administrator had not 'cancelled' us) was $1750/month. I've been on unemployment since March and unemployed for nearly a year. I'll gladly pay $333/month as an alternative to $1750, especially now that one of my kids has been diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes and ulcerative colitis, rendering him uninsurable.
With that said, I am concerned that the first compromise they make in conference committee will be the subsidy levels. The Senate had significant differences in the subsidy percentages and the limits on income to qualify. I'm definitely concerned about where the final limits will fall.
Login or Register to post comments.