If American Health Care Is So Great, Why Do So Many Americans Go Elsewhere For It?
By Susie Madrak Tuesday Sep 01, 2009 3:00pm
Whenever conservatives start telling me what a great healthcare system we have, I say, "Yes, and we make very nice yachts, too. What's your point?" Because what earthly difference does it make to you when you're priced out of that system?
I've known Americans who've gone to Costa Rica, Venezuela, Peru, Mexico and Austria for medical and dental treatment they couldn't afford here. (In fact, Logan wrote about this a few weeks ago.) If people are getting on a plane to go somewhere to get treatment, that's got to tell you something:
MEXICO CITY — It sounds almost too good to be true: a health care plan with no limits, no deductibles, free medicines, tests, X-rays, eyeglasses, even dental work — all for a flat fee of $250 or less a year.
To get it, you just have to move to Mexico.
As the United States debates an overhaul of its health care system, thousands of American retirees in Mexico have quietly found a solution of their own, signing up for the health care plan run by the Mexican Social Security Institute.
The system has flaws, the facilities aren't cutting-edge, and the deal may not last long because the Mexican government said in a recent report that it is "notorious" for losing money. But for now, retirees say they're getting a bargain.
"It was one of the primary reasons I moved here," said Judy Harvey of Prescott Valley, who now lives in Alamos, Sonora. "I couldn't afford health care in the United States. … To me, this is the best system that there is."
It's unclear how many Americans use IMSS, but with between 40,000 and 80,000 U.S. retirees living in Mexico, the number probably runs "well into the thousands," said David Warner, a public policy professor at the University of Texas.
"They take very good care of us," said Jessica Moyal, 59, of Hollywood, Fla., who now lives in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico, a popular retirement enclave for Americans.
The IMSS plan is primarily designed to support Mexican taxpayers who have been paying into the system for decades, and officials say they don't want to be overrun by bargain-hunting foreigners.
"If they started flooding down here for this, it wouldn't be sustainable," said Javier Lopez Ortiz, IMSS director in San Miguel de Allende.
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so they can actually receive and afford it. people have/are being priced out of health care.
...not to mention some losing their homes because they can't afford their health care bills.
and some Insurance cos are paying for patients to go to Thailand, Manila, and Korea for surgery --costs are cheaper to the insurer but premiums are still up there!
How much does health care cost?
Plenty. This is how we reduce the costs.
FIGHT the money.
It's time we play their game. We rob their banks. Legally. We target the BIG “piggy banks”. Bank of America, Citicorp, Chase and Wells Fargo. We play with money. Our money. We take it AWAY from them.
Take your money out of the big banks and put it into smaller ones. As you walk away make sure you let the bank manager know you are linking their particular “reversal in fortune" to the filthy rich lobbyists who are writing bailouts for every industry including health insurance. Don’t forget to do that part. Then you try to convince as many people that they need to do the same thing We slowly get people to move a great deal of money OUT OF the big banks into smaller ones. We tie it to the fact that we are tired of having our laws written by a bunch of rich lobbyists, big bankers included. Can you imagine what bank managers would be reporting back to their CEO's?
THEN sit back and watch what Congress does.
It’s time to use your money wisely. Break their back like they broke yours. TAKE IT AWAY from them.
The corporate lobbyist fatcats sure owe the American people their money back and an apology for inflating prices beyond affordability.
A LOT!!!!
I got sick of Chase and their bigass bullshit. Took both my accounts out and went with a small California chain. Not only am I not supporting some behemoth, I get personalized service. Friendly tellers that take their time (there's rarely more than two customers in my branch). Free coffee and cookies. They'll even call you up on the phone to warn you if it looks like an overdraft is about to hit!
Big banks are overrated in people's minds. With the debit card networks, there's no reason to put your money in the hands of those thieves.
Thanks for putting this great idea out there...
I cancelled my CitiBank card a long time ago... when their CEO was loudmouthing it about how great Bu$h was and put a bunch of Citi money into Bu$h's campaign. I wrote them a cancellation letter, sent my cut up credit card and told them to NEVER contact me ever. I want nothing to do with them. Of course I got a call and gave them more of my thoughts. Haven't heard from them in years!
if it's so dang good in the U.S. of A. why would anyone seek it elsewhere?
And if the Government-funded health care is no good, why aren't all those politicians who don't want fair and equal health care for all willing to give up their paid-by-the-people's-taxes health care that they seem to enjoy?
Seriously... time for a frickin' level playing field, folks!
> if it's so dang good in the U.S. of A. why would anyone seek it elsewhere?
Because they hate the troops obviously ..........
Hopefully the brainless that actually believe that will stay in the US.
"The IMSS plan is primarily designed to support Mexican taxpayers who have been paying into the system for decades, and officials say they don't want to be overrun by bargain-hunting foreigners.
"If they started flooding down here for this, it wouldn't be sustainable..."
that's some delicious irony right there.
Wouldn't it be something if Mexico started building a wall to keep our immigrants out?
policy re: deporting Guatemalans who try to cross into Southern Mexico. Corrupt police down there throw them in jail, take all their money, then drop them at the border.
it's much harder to leave the U.S. now to move to these Republican Expatriate havens these countries have caught on to the game.
"San Miguel de Allende, Mexico, a popular retirement enclave for Americans"
. . this reveals enough to suggest it's more then just health "care" that needs reform.
Because NO I do NOT want to support the "REPUBLICAN Health Care Bill of Rights"! Because THAT would be the same as taking half my paycheck and handing it to the completely useless insurance industry.
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The lady in that ad looks like a bitter old hag.
One of the hot searches on AOL is the "tea party express" - apparently a group of conservatives trekking across the country attempting to stop health care reform from California to DC. Of course, most of us don't really know what this small population with a larger mouth than the more silent sane people are talking about.
It also reminds me of how that woman from Canada is being used as a ploy for "Conservatives for Patients Rights".
So, since when is health care still not a human right in this country (unless it can be afforded)?
You'd think more and more people would find it a lot more reasonable for serious health care reform after the last failed attempt by Clinton in 1993 and 1994 followed by skyrocketing health care costs of 450% since 2000, according to Ring of Fire Radio host, Mike Papantonio.
For years I've wanted to get all of my old metal fillings replaced with white fillings. No dental ins I ever had would cover it and dentists here wanted literally thousands to do it.
When I was a kid my dentist doubled as the town drunk. So I'm a total white knuckler in the chair. At that point Xanax becomes a food group.
So I went to Mexico and got them all replaced (and there were many). It cost me $400. Excellent anesthetic. They look and feel great. And I'm no longer worried about toxic metal in my mouth.
It helps to live 45 miles from the border and have a wife fluent in spanish.
Wow! I have a tooth with a wide (but not deep, mind you) hole in it, and inquired about getting a gold filling/crown for it, and the estimate would be $705 for that one tooth, even as covered by my HMO! Sounds very tempting to go south of the border to get virtually free dental/health care!
Lots of people do it. There's a thriving trade in dentistry south of the border. Many good dentists make their whole living catering to the needs of desperate Americans.
(And, BTW, who says we make great yachts?)
Conservatives love to point out all the foreigners who come here for treatment, but they never seem to mention specific people. I remember the Shah of Iran coming here - but that was decades ago. Just who is coming here and from where?
It's just another version of the adolescent "We're number 1!" chant conservatives love to make their first refuge. And it isn't true - even for the wealthy. While health and wealth have a direct correlation worldwide, wealthy Americans are not as healthy as wealthy Brits. (see e.g. JAMA).
We also have medical malpractice killing many, many more people than auto accidents (also originally published in JAMA but summarized here).
Yet people still have the gall to brag about the excellence of our system (and demand tort reform to boot!)
Who needs a doctor when Helen Keller in a cheerleading outfit is all the assurance a good conservative needs.
In my 33 years in the business the only foreigners I've ever seen come here for treatment are a couple of rich Saudis and one Iranian in LA. They paid cash of course.
which are not offered anywhere else in the world, and thus the people who can afford come here to get them.
What the conservatives neglect to mention is... that it is also the case with other university/research hospitals around the world. I.e. they are specialized, or they own faculty/doctors which are specialized in very specific treatments or are developing some new techniques.
The first heart transplant was performed in South Africa, the first successful in vitro fertilization happened in the UK, etc.
I love how conservatives love to wrap themselves around the flag of American scientific achievement, when they are the most virulent anti-intellectualist and are the ones making everything in their power to sabotage our scientific advancement. Wankers...
... maybe all these foreigners are flocking here for the faith healing.
Oh well.
Because of the blood sucking leeches that pose as health insurance executives while pocketing millions if not billions?
(I'm just guessing)
I've heard that the CEOs of United Health Care, Aetna, et al are getting away quite handsomely with their golden parachutes of profits.
St Elsewhere?
The Pilgrims evidently came here because their doctors immediately became superior simply by touching American soil. Of course, they came by ship, ergo, not St. Elsewhere, but St. Elmo's Fire.
St Elsewhere turned out to be the dream on an autistic child.
We must remove the profit motive from health care.
I took my mother in after she passed blood in her stool. I found out later they gave her an MRI (found nothing)and a CAT scan (found nothing) then a colonoscopy where they found a ruptured internal hymroid. They should have just did the colonoscopy first. But no, this is rutine, padding the bill, picking the pockets of medicare/insurance companies. I've had personal experience with this. I'm sure this is going on more and more because who's looking? Who's going to question a doctor, some government agent? Who spends money on keeping these people honest? It's a loosing bet. Look at it from there point of view, the're not stealing from individuals, the gov or insurance co. We need to put the doctors and hospitals on the gov payroll. No payouts for each and every they decide to do. Like the British system. The current plans only offer these people another way to pick the taxpayers pockets.
Biz.
> We must remove the profit motive from health care.
A nice idea, though it's not the american dream .......... profit at any cost, any at all.
I live in an area with a high concentration of American expats, Canadians, and Europeans -- I don't think the majority of the Americans are Republican. The folks in the ritzy gated communities might be, but those of us that live in the nearby villages are more likely to be retired teachers, auto workers, postal workers, and folks from all sorts of professions -- blue and white collar. The Democrats Abroad have a good number of folks in my village. And, what's wrong with the U.S. having lots of retirees down here living a good life on less money?
Years ago, my sister was forced to go to Spain, where my dad is from, for a breast reduction surgery. It was not cosmetic - her back was actually starting to go out of alignment because her endowment was so big. There was no way she could afford the surgery, and of course insurance wouldn't have made any difference. She went to Europe and got it done for nothing because our dad has dual citizenship, so as a family member she was covered by the national insurance program there.
Turned out it was a good thing she went. The doctor not only did a good job, but told her he had found pre-cancerous tissue afterward. Imagine the struggle she would have had here to get the surgery done at all, and had she had insurance, they would have disavowed it because of the "pre-existing condition" of that tissue.
How many people are there who don't have the luck my sister had? This country's treatment of its citizens is truly obscene in so many ways.
aunts and uncles all think health care reform is an evil plot to kill them. "why change health care," they say. "I have great health care." Of course that's because they get all their dental work and medications after a short drive across the border to Mexico. They simply can't or more likely won't see the contradiction between what they say they believe and their actions.
There are even some American isurance companies that pay for people to go to San Diego for certain procedures.
I got my plane ticket.
Whirlpool appliances just announced it is closing a refrigerator manufactureing plant in Indiana and moving 1100 jobs to mexico. At some point our economy will grind to a halt and Americans will start crossing the border into Mexico looking for a desent job and healthcare
The reason it's so cheap in Mexico is because very few Mexicans have health insurance. Costs are restrained by the reality of what average people can afford to pay.
The United States was the same way, until the insurance industry took over health care. In the '50s, doctors made house calls and routine medical emergencies did not bankrupt a family. There was even a public health care system for the indigent. As health insurance enabled costs to soar, indigent care became too expensive for the public to bear. And as doctors were forced to focus more on the economics of insurance and than on delivering health care, house calls became apocryphal.
The premiums we all pay to be "insured" do not begin to reflect the material and spiritual damage done by Americans' refusal to accept personal responsibility for the risks they run.
on Social Security disability that left last year to live in Guatemala because his health care, even with disability and Medicaid, became financially impossible. He couldn't afford both rent and health care! Lucky for him he has a circle of friends there from his teaching days. He had been a volunteer teacher. I don't think he ever thought to see the day where he would have to go back to Guatemala because he HAD to.
Yes, Argentina has better, more affordable health care. My premium with Regence (2007-$249, 2008-$330, 2009-$418, 2010-$595 a month) as you can see just got too expensive. So I went back to a catastrophic plan ($265/mo) and if anything goes wrong I'm off to Buenos Aires. I have already gone down there for dental care. Dental procedures are actually cheaper that a premium payment for dental insurance is in the US. I may become a health-care expat if we don't see some reform.
My US health-care policy? "Don't get sick"
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