Mr. President, Explain To Us Why We Should Even Want This Crappy Healthcare Bill
You know, it really is depressing - and infuriating - to see how little will actually be accomplished with this so-called health care "reform."
And unless the House leadership waves a magic wand in the conference committee hearings, I doubt much will change:
Measured against the promises President Obama and congressional Democrats have made about health-care reform, the bill the Senate begins debating this week could be setting Americans up for disappointment: Some of the main reforms would not take place for several years, and even when they do, some observers say, the bill does too little to make sure they would be enforced.
Until 2014, insurance companies could continue to deny coverage or charge higher premiums based on people's medical history. Another highly touted reform -- banning annual and lifetime limits on coverage -- would take effect in 2010, but it would permit significant exceptions.
Even with those rules in place, "there's no power to really hold the insurance companies accountable," said consumer advocate Betty Ahrens, executive director of the Iowa Citizen Action Network. "It's toothless."
Jim Manley, a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.), said the bill was a compromise. "This is not the legislation we would have written in a perfect world, but Senator Reid believes that this bill has the best chance possible to get the 60 votes necessary to overcome a Republican filibuster," Manley said.
The delay in implementing some key reforms contrasts with the urgency of Obama's call for action.
Although some changes might take years to implement, Obama said in July, "We shouldn't have to wait a long time to make sure that people don't lose their insurance because of a preexisting condition."
Delaying relief until 2014 means that Obama could face reelection -- and Congress be transformed by two elections -- before voters begin feeling the legislation's full effect.
Here's the real kicker: The feds won't even enforce their own laws. That's right, kids, it'll be left to the notoriously industry-friendly state regulators. The feds will only get involved under rare conditions.
Which means never. This is exactly what happened with HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act). Insurers weren't allowed to make rescissions unless consumers defrauded the insurer or deliberately misrepresented their medical condition.
SS,DD.
Here too, eh?
What a shame.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
the more they stay the same.
Whaaaat? You mean Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi ain't gettin' it done for US...the American People.
I'm so disillusioned.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
well, i guess we should get ready for
the double fucking we are about to receive:
insurance rates will continue to skyrocket and
people will continue to be dropped for pre-exiting
44 thousand+ will die
everyone will be forced to pay a new tax(required insurance)
to help the elite rich insurance/pharmacy corporations
don't pay/take the insurance "go to jail"
and finally go bankrupt to pay the fucking
insurance premiums for less or little coverage
until you need it , then get
fuckeddroppedwhen you do need it.
look on the bright side--
when you are in jail at least you
will have the public option health
insurance that congress doesn't have
the balls to pass.
to a rethug controlled Congress and eventually White House coming to you in the near future.
I guess we'll be seeing Lieberman again. Now that's he's done serving as the insurance companies' suckling pig over the holidays.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
Health care delayed is health care denied.
..throw it out and wait some more?
The disillusion and disappointment grows every day. AND, if this is what happens to health insurance reform, what's going to happen with investigating w and the war crime family? I expect nothing, will probably see nothing and will have to consider not voting for the incumbent President in 2012.
In all relationships based on trust, there is an element of betrayal! Cmdr. Will Riker, USS Enterprise, NCC-1701-D
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
to bounce back, so that people can go back to the complacency associated with a booming market now that they have bought all they needed at fire sale prices. I can totally see Obama pulling a Clinton on us.
You blasphemer!!! How dare you refer to Bill "Big Dog" Clinton in a negative manner! Just because he enabled Wall Street and their internet and real estate bubbles, killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis through sanctions and bombings, enacted NAFTA and massacred a fringe religious group for no reason is no reason to denounce the most beloved Democrat since JFK.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
Ah-HAH!
A surfer AND a trekker.
..make that statement but I remember him saying it not the episode he says it in. I'm not that much of a trekker. I remembered it because of a love affair gone south and it applies so well to what we (the gestaldt "we") are experiencing today.
I've been a surfer since Sept. 29, 1969. I'm tire easily, have bum knees, back problems (its not the jumps, its the landings), no patience for wannabe surfers who have a sense of entitlement because they "found" surfing, hate crowds and don't get out that much any more.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
That is the thing about living in a Democracy where 1/3 of the power is controlled by an institution dominated by small states. The powers that be can't buy New York or California, but they can get exactly the same effect by buying the Senate seats of two little states.
Despite the pretensions of Bush/Cheney, the President really has limited powers. If you want stuff to really change you need to get progressives into the Senate.
"The powers that be can't buy New York or California"
New York - Schumer
California - DiFi
Huh?
once signed, this legislation will represent nothing short of despotism to the American public.
Once the uninsured find out the price tag that the magic "Exchanges" deem they can afford to pay for "for-profit" health insurance that they in truth CANNOT afford the proverbial shit will hit the fan in this country. When a person has to decide whether to pay an insurance premium for a policy that will most likely have an unaffordable "deductible" and lousy coverage as well, or pay the heating bill or buy food, that is when a political "tipping point" will be reached here.
Add to this the "fines/penalties" for non-compliance and then the threat of imprisonment and we're talkin' about an ANGRY electorate...
People WILL organize against this. I guarantee everyone reading this that the time is coming when the Democratic Party will rue the day they passed this legislation. I predict this will be the beginning of the end of the Democratic Party. This will prove, once and for all, that the Democratic Party represents corporate America and NOT Main Street.
BIG mistake.
HUGE.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
I hope healthcare costs have trebled, home heating oil has doubled, gas is an average of $5/gallon and unemployment is 10% by 2012.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
Unemployment is past 10% already.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Factor in all those who are UNDER-employed (i.e. working at a job way under their abilities and/or training due to downsizing) and the realistic unemployment rate is around 17%.
GOOD. Higher then!!
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
Agreed.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
These assholes are just cutting their own throats. and when their house of cards comes crashing down, it's going to suck to be them.
..the Dems and the Republican'ts to see which disappears first?
This ought to be good for a few wrecks just like NASCAR.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
It's a race to the bottom and the American People are the toboggan.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
..an "agony of defeat" kind of moment. Great.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
It's even sadder when you realize this *was* the better of the two choices in the last election.
I shudder to think how much worse off we would have been under McCain and the Moose Hunter from Alaska.
That being said, what exactly is the excuse for bungling this stuff so badly? I would have thought that the politically expedient way of doing it would have been to push it to Obama's second term by focusing attention on the economy, then pushing it through with the added momentum of four years of economic recovery and the added presence of a few more progressives in the house and senate (which I figure would have happened if we had pushed for more progressive policies).
Now, Obama gets to deal with a crappy bill and the lack of any way to turn this turdfest around. What ever happened to this guy? Did he sell his soul to become president? He could have been a great man by sacrificing political capital to bring universal healthcare to America, but he's going to be a bad footnote at the rate he's going ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46mO7jx3JEw
The original is still the best. See it, download it before Youtube pulls it again.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
but do you know or did you listen to Woody's 'Jesus Christ'? - the video is on that same youtube page. The words to that are even more appropos - "the bankers and soldiers laid Jesus Christ in his grave" .... not much changes.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
The U2 version of this song is excellent too.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
what's it going to cost us to do nothing? the fact that some ER's are closing and the demographic(s) using the ER's for routine medical care is increasing ........sounds expensive.
Well, you know....
Uh-huh....
When people continue to die in this country because they cannot afford to see a doctor or go to a hospital for life-saving treatment it will reach a "tipping point". And I believe this will happen sooner than anyone thinks.
One well thought out website against this despotism and the Democrats will be sweating big time.
Let me know where to sign up against this rotten legislation.
BTW, did all of you have a chance to see the Single Payer Now/PNHP Press Conference from last week? Here's the link:
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/program/290251-1
This is the way we should all be organizing before it is too late and the ink has dried.
This bill should be killed.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Well, at least we'll have kept illegal brown people from getting healthcare like a good Christian country should.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
No, I disagree.
Doing nothing is not an option and to think single-payer can pass when HCR can't is contradictory and illogical.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
check out this website: Obama's Quagmire
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
Again.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Sorry to rain on your parade, Abby, but I think the coporations are too well entrenched - and intelligent/ruthless enough - to be overcome by a popular groundswell any time soon.
Not that I don't want that groundswell, I just don't see it happening.
I hope that it fails to get the votes so that we can start over when we've got more real Democrats. Give time for HR-676 to build more momentum, while the crooks - who are unable to exercise any measure of self-restraint - go about the business of further alientating an even larger percentage of the American People. They're so greedy, they can't even recognize their own long-term self-interest. As they continue to foul their own nests, it just going to earn them more and more enemies.
Come on -- we need to get started. Does anyone seriously believe that if this bill is defeated that we will soon get a "better" bill (and what does the super-pure left call "better"?) ---
This bill does a lot and once the country realizes that the world has not come to an end, it can be improved. France did gov't health care piecemeal and Canada's single-payer plan has had several modifications.
Lighten up.
Yeah...it only took 70 years to get this far.
Be patient.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
by safeguarding the interests of those opposed to the reforms first and foremost.
A lot of people neglect to mention that...
Where similar "pro-business" reforms have neglecting hospitals that serve the poor and offer no ability to control prices?
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
If it included a public option; IF there were adequate subsidies; IF the restrictions on insurance companies re: recissions, etc. took place right away, we could look on it as a beginning.
But it looks like we're not getting any of those things. And to throw this on people's backs in the middle of a major recession is just asking to get their asses kicked.
A former award-winning journalist and lifelong class warrior, keeping a jaundiced eye on the Washington elite.
...to some, perhaps, but totally predictable.
If you see Obama and the Dems as being substantially better than Bush and the Repugs, I'd suggest taking it easy on your reserves of disappontment. You're going to be using it a lot more, I'm afraid. A whole lot.
...'if the Right one(s) don't get ya', then the Left one(s) will.'
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
This constant refrain of Obama being no better than Bush, perpetuating the notion that Dems should stay home on election day and that all is lost. It's a self perpetuating cycle, dems stay home, more conservatives get in, less gets done.
This is a good bill, it saves 156 billion off the deficit, it insures 36 million more people, it has a whole host of reforms that will improve the lives of millions. While i would prefer a single payer this is certainly FAR better than nothing.
And it's insane that crooks and liars is perpetuating the notion that Obama=Bush.
I'm not part of an organized political party, i'm a Democrat.
the worst case. Why nobody wants to see what is in the final bill before it comes up for vote is beyond me.
"It's better than nothing?" That's the best we can do? We get an overwhelming victory in the election, and turn it into ... subsidies for bankers and the insurance industry. Big time fail.
We have seemingly endless deficit-free money to kill dark people on the other side of the world, but we turn into misers the second we want to take care of our own people? Single payer, man. It's the solution to the healthcare debacle we're knee deep in at the moment. Kill the profit motive in healthcare, and suddenly it becomes better. People who preach otherwise usually have something to gain from saying so.
He's not Bush. But that shouldn't be the only selling point. He's a far better statesman, believes in science, etc. But not ending the wars in the middle east and keeping kangaroo courts running isn't exactly moving *away* from the Bush years.
If he got his act together, he has the opportunity to do great things. Hiring jackasses like Tim Geithner wasn't one of them.
I now the negativity sucks but it's hard to be positive about a president who continues and escalates every single barbarian act that was enabled under Bush (rendition, indefinite detention, drone bombings, landmines), continues to bow down before the altar of Wall Street, makes little to no effort to do a thing about the environment, starts off healthcare reform by caving to Big Pharma and holds the Stimulus as his only positive accomplishment. So, he can give away money. Wow. What a leader.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
how the hell you think it "insures 36 million more people"!!!! Because it doesn't!
You're right about that! He's really more like Cheney.
get the idea that Obama is writing the bill? Susie, can you help us out here? This is the senate bill, the other one is the house bill. Obama has not written either one.
written by lobbyists and the most corporate-friendly of all the bills. Obama/Rahm cut backroom deals with bigPharma/insurance in the spring, then took single payer out of consideration and worked continuously to kill the public option behind the scenes. Obama did not lift a single finger to work for meaningful healthcare reform. Obama is the single individual most responsible for skewing the results toward the most corporate-friendly, American citizen-hostile health care 'reform' bill imaginable. All so he could keep his campaign coffers filled to the max. Obama represents himself and the corporations, not the American people.
what he may have said behind the scenes or how his suggestions may have been rejected. He cannot by any law, write the bills.
worked behind the scenes for a watered-down, corporate-friendly bill; even the NY Times called Baucus' bill - the most corporate friendly of the bills emanating from the House - "Obama's bill" (sorry, can't find the link at the moment). He may not write the bills, but as the most powerful man in American he sure as heck can influence the process.
See "Mad at Max:
Direct some anger at Max Baucus toward the president."
...and Is Max Baucus Writing the White House Bill?
There have been numerous reports of Rahm trying to scuttle the PO, most recently sending Bill Clinton to meet with Senators to talk them out of voting for it.
pretty thin gruel but it beats starving and later you will be able to say:"Please Sir, I'd like some more".
Hasa Diga Eebowai
The bill should not have been watered down. Instead, it should have triggered a filibuster. That way, Americans could see clearly that the Republicans aren't interested in health care reform, but only want to block every avenue to it. By weaseling on the bill just to avoid a fight, the Democratic leadership has once again shot itself in the foot.
There's nothing wrong with a public fight. Why won't they man up and face it?
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Exactly.
the projected cost to provide health care insurance per-employee will TRIPLE by 2019. this is according to a CEO roundtable that was reviewed in the media a couple months ago. that along with a study that came out a couple weeks ago that said if current trends continue up to 43% of Americans could become obese at a cost of $344 billion dollars by 2018. with the increasing burden on the PAYing pool from the cost SHIFT from the uninsured and conditions like obesity/metabolic syndrome/type II diabetes on the rise look out........doing NOthing could very likely stagnate our economic recovery.
Jobless face expiration of health benefit
Unless Congress acts, thousands will see their COBRA premiums jump
No worries. Congress will stop gap this as usual. Gotta make sure there are no protests going on outside the Congress over the Christmass holidays. Really fucks up the winter.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
Keeping the American people distracted from the lack of prosecution of the many many war crimes committed by the previous administration and continued by this administration.
SHUT UP FOOLS . .
You two are recipients of MEDICARE so YES, you might as well be living in France . .
Ya get it stoooopids??
you really don't think that the Dems are going to allow a mid term and a major election year to pass without this bill clearing before 2014, do you? do you realize how muh political damage this will cause the party? i think it will pass sometime next summer. the dems will be foolish to wait 5 years before this bill becomes law
it will cause if it is enacted *before* the next presidential election cycle, giving voters enough time to see what a piece of corporate crap it is and throwing the bums out of office. Certainly Obama realizes it; he has consistently been the most outspoken about it not being enacted before 2012.
I dunno how y'all feel, but so far this Obama guy and the Democrat-ruled Congress has been a HUGE disappointment. 30,000 more troops in Afghanistan, we are still in Iraq, the spying on our own citizens continues, the "military commissions act" is still in full force, and this health care bill is nonsense promoted by a bunch of whores to the insurance companies. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
90 things Obama has accomplished since taking office
My Mom was really excited about this list. Unfortunately they are not all accomplishments.
What are the odds that a mediocre POS House HC Insurance "Reform" bill, when combined with an even worse POS Senate HC Insurance "Reform" bill in House-Senate Conference Committee Reconciliation will actually be better than either bill on its own, let alone the equivalent of HR-676?
My best estimate is that those odds will be somewhere between Slim & None, and with Slim ridden out of Washington, dressed in Tar & Feathers on a Rail.
The Democratic Party, as it exists today, will be in better shape in 2010, 2012 and beyond if President Obama vetoes any variant of a HC Reform bill that does not closely resemble HR-676. Quack, quack Mr. One-Term President. And you just know who the shit-weasels are who will take advantage of that outcome.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009...
her answer...because "Elderly and ILL will Pay more under GOP Health Care Reform Bill"
thats why
Can you imagine what the premium hikes of the insurance companies will be if healthcare doesn't pass?? Start by raising or just dumping every ignorant, uneducated teabaggers and terribly stupid Reslugs, that bought into the habitual lies of the Reslug party.
One of the things that should be if this bill does not get to something approaching single payer is this -
If an insurance company denies coverage for a condition, the insured should immediately be able to utilize MediCare for the treatment of that which was denied.
IMMEDIATELY.
Then the MediCare office can battle the insurance company to pay for the treatment.
The patient is taken care of. Bottom line. That is the goal, is it not?
I know the details, the downfalls, the dilemma this will bring.
But it's at least something that insures us against insurance companies.
brilliant!
that MediCare goes bankrupt at the earliest possible date. Why wouldn't any and all insurance companies simply deny all expensive treatment thereby sticking us taxpayers with the bill?
to be funding...you know...money that is already slated for the current bill.
And don't think for a minute that the US Government couldn't do what we as individuals never have a snowball's chance in Hell to accomplish - make an insurance company pay for a covered yet unauthorized treatment.
This is good discussion material.
Perhaps there could be limitations on the number of cases that an insurance company denies or "refers" to MediCare.
If they abuse it, they lose their privilege to sell their product.
It is a starting point.
Maybe it doesn't come from MediCare, but a separate public option plan because you know people will slip through any proposed reforms and we will be right back to where we started - people dying because treatment is denied.
And damn, maybe this is what the insurance companies have to buy into in order to receive a mandate that we purchase their product?
What do you think could work?
But glossing over that issue, I like your idea of ins. co.s submitting to MediCare as a secondary insurer of sorts. Even if insurance companies provided no extra coverage, they could still make money off of administration just as they do with organizations that are self-insured. Perhaps this is the only feasible route for moving towards a real single-payor.
"That's right, kids"
We are not children and you're not our mother so quit condescending or trying to be more than you are.
Mkay?
Mother issues, have we? Calm down and don't take everything so personally. ~SiteMonitor
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
They've done everything that possibly can to get this legislation passed. They've killed any possible public option, enriched insurers, and
screwedtotally fucked citizens.What more could a
politiciancorporate stooge do for those he represents?...but he is a Democrat. And, like all Democrats and Republicans, he is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Wall Street and K street.
Like any President, he is a figurehead who makes the party base feel good. Bush was The Man for the gun-totin' imbeciles of the right; Obama is the hero of the hand-wringing naifs of the left.
Obama or Bush? Hardly matters when one gives us Geithner and the other Paulsen. Either way, we're screwed.
other then some boomers want to be entitled to live to 100 yrs old so they can claim 100 is the new 70. And other boomers want to get even for being beat up by life and left a crumbling wreck after slaving away for nothing for 40 years?
I have not heard about any price caps for insurance premiums in the Senate bill. Does anyone know if there are any?
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