Netanyahu: Maybe It's What He Didn't Say
By Susie Madrak Monday Jun 15, 2009 12:00pm
These are all conditions previously rejected by the Palestinians, and Bibi's still refusing to halt the settlements, so I'm puzzled by what, exactly, he's saying that's progress. I guess the thing that's interesting is what he didn't say - he didn't use the election riots in Iran as a way to do his usual fear-mongering routine:
JERUSALEM — The prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, on Sunday endorsed for the first time the principle of a Palestinian state alongside Israel, but on condition that the state is demilitarized and that the Palestinians recognize Israel as the state of the Jewish people.
In a much-anticipated speech meant in part as an answer to President Barack Obama’s historic address in Cairo earlier this month, the Israeli leader reversed his longstanding opposition to Palestinian statehood, a move seen as a concession to American pressure.
But he explicitly rejected American demands for a complete freeze on Israeli settlements in the West Bank, hardening a rare public dispute between Israel and its most important ally on an issue seen as critical to peace negotiations.
And even his concession on Palestinian statehood, given the caveats, was immediately rejected as a nonstarter by Palestinian officials.
In a half-hour speech broadcast live in Israel, Mr. Netanyahu laid out what he called his “vision of peace”: “In this small land of ours, two peoples live freely, side-by-side, in amity and mutual respect. Each will have its own flag, its own national anthem, its own government. Neither will threaten the security or survival of the other.”
But he insisted on “ironclad” guarantees from the United States and the international community that the Palestinian territory would be demilitarized, and that the Palestinians publicly recognize Israel as a Jewish state.
Given those conditions, Mr. Netanyahu said, “We will be ready in a future peace agreement to reach a solution where a demilitarized Palestinian state exists alongside the Jewish state.”
He also said that no new settlements would be created and no more land expropriated for expansion, but that “normal life” must be allowed to continue in the settlements, a term he has used to mean that limited building should be allowed to continue within existing settlements to accommodate “natural growth.”
While this position did not diverge from his previous statements on the issue, this time it was delivered in the context of a speech he had billed as a major foreign policy address, one which he had personally urged Mr. Obama to watch. It came 10 days after Mr. Obama had bluntly rejected “the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements” in his address to the Muslim world in Cairo.
The White House reaction was positive, if limited, focusing on what it called “the important step forward” of Mr. Netanyahu’s support for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
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Don't wanna play nice Netanyahu?
How about we stop sending Israel money?
imho.
way way waaaaay past time.
Look it's a symbolic start. He can't just go all in at this
point. He is in a TOUGH position for a politician. The sad
thing is he could be in an EASY position if he did what was
right. All he has to do is cut a decent deal and say to the
world...
"We, the Israeli people have thrown away the past and look forward to a new era of peace and cooperation in our region. We welcome Palestine, our newest and dearest neighbor!"
I'm holding my breath ..
That's *certain* to happen real soon now ..
netanyahu is as reichwing as any other neocon. you'd think someone in his shoes would understand the history of genocide and show some sympathy, allow medical aid and food for the palestinians. Instead, he demonizes the helpless.
yeah! it's long past due to stop the money.
“The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle),” Friedman wrote in response to the question posed by Moment Magazine for its “Ask the Rabbis” feature.
Friedman argued that if Israel followed this wisdom, there would be “no civilian casualties, no children in the line of fire, no false sense of righteousness, in fact, no war.”
“I don’t believe in Western morality,” he wrote. “Living by Torah values will make us a light unto the nations who suffer defeat because of a disastrous morality of human invention.”
http://www.forward.com/articles/107112/
So, in other words, this Rabbi is arguing that if you go 'all-out' and have 'total war', where you have no moral restraints, you will help prevent future war. Even the Nazis didn't make that excuse at their war crimes trials.
so the point of posting this was what?
israel is a secular run country
manis friedman does not set policy
Fine. We'll keep our money. Oh and Palestinians and Arabs? Feel free to push them out of the west bank.
Sooooooooo.....it's okay for Palestinians to keep being pushed off their ancestral homelands and keep being killed by overzealous Israelis because Netanyahu is politically vulnerable? That's an astonishing statement.
And I am not joking.
re:Look it's a symbolic start. He can't just go all in at this point.
Exactly, I suggest those with a hardon against Israel find a magazine until this thing evolves a few more steps.
" Tough Position " my ass , Palestinians have been living in a prison in Gaza , having their power bombed by Israel , supplies blockaded , fishermen shot at and forced back from fishing areas , air controlled by Drones , borders controlled , entry denied to thousands , land continuing to be stolen for settlements , even property being stolen and blocked by walls in Jerusalem , going unreported by pro Israel bias media ...and you worry about Nentanyahu , he presents the majority of leadership and that's he gets away with insulting offer to Palestinians of no defense , no airspace , no coastal freedom , borders controlled by IsrAEL , gets to keep STEALING land and you apologists like OBAMA , in your disillusionment think this is a step forward . It was designed to fail , designed for rejection , because Israel wants to drive out Palestinians and make life a living HELL !
The Palestinians are not humans that is how they get away with violating human right's
If they are not humans no human right's were violated
i have found you out
google rabbi's and Israeli leaders comments and quotes on the Palestinian problem.
As they say facts are stubborn things
what would you want?
Right on the beam...
As soon as Nethayaya and Liberman show the rest of the world they want to go it alone, and the rest of the globe says "Adios" !! then they'll be floating on their air mattresses in the Sea of Galilea the next morning..with a new Israeli government the next day!!
That the United States should provide funds & weapons to facillitate Israel's on-going destruction of the Palestinian people is straight-up criminal! Any and all so-called "aid" to Israel must stop immediately.
Here's an interesting (& brief) breakdown from the Palestine Monitor: Exposing Life Under Occupation that shows the extent of U.S. aid to Israel:
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/spip/spip.php...
..........is just another BLOODYISRAELI War Criminal. Both 'Bibi' and Avignor LIEberman (all LIEbermans are sameo, sameo) are radical extremists and were put in 'power' to do the horrible deeds they are known for.
as long as a Palestinian state is maintained as demilitarized, and Israel has the region's largest bestest military plus nukes, there's no way that "Neither will threaten the security or survival of the other."
Great commentary Susie. I personally thought there was a little bit of progress in this stalemate. He recognizes that a Palestinian state is not a luxury. It's a must. I do agree with you, however, that the important thing to take away from this is what he didn't say. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I am pretty sure that Israel doesn't want to alienate their strongest ally -- the U.S.
http://blackpoliticalthought.blogspot.com
Pleeeeeeeeeeez, 'alienate their stongest ally??????'USofBLOODYISRAEL is owned by BLOODYISRAEL. Ally, my ass!! Let's see, Kissenger, Chertoff, home grown liar LIEberman, Biden, Rahm, ...........agents for a foreign power in 'power' now.
Right... right...
but...but...I want my way and I want it now now now!!!
Gimme gimme gimme right now now now!!!
It's a step in the right direction. Obama can't erase overnight what
60 years of America enabling has caused. Israel is a terror state
with F-15s and nukes. We must go slow but stay determined....or cut
off the allowance!
This is the same step as it has always been, Israel puts forth a proposal they well know it is DOA. The USA tells Israel to not be a dick, then sends another allowance check anyways. And then Israel makes their best to make the Palestinians look like the real culprits, because... well... they really "tried" with their proposal. Rinse, repeat...
You thinking this is a step in the right direction means that you are incredibly naive, or have not been paying attention to the Israel-Palestinian conflict during the past 3 decades.
been naive? That's the American way.
... which is why I was so amused by the OP's posts.
Exactly three decades because that's when Carter left office and it became clear that Reagan had no intention of dealing with the Palestinian people honestly. Neither did Poppy Bush. Clinton may have made progress if he wasn't beholden the the AIPAC lobby and he hadn't been defending a blow job for his entire last term. Bush Jr. wasn't subtle enough to even make a pretense of dealing fairly with them.
First we tell Israel that we are launching a formal Congressional Investigation into Israel's outrageous napalming, bombing and torpedoing of the USS Liberty on June 8th, 1967. Up until now any investigation has been denied. Here is an indepth expose on what happened that day prepared by the survivors of the Liberty. This is a long, heavy expose' of what happened as it lays out the case that Israel is guilty of war crimes:
http://www.ussliberty.org/report/report.htm
Then we TELL Israel that they must respect U.N. Resolution 242. There must be a return to the '67 borders and all illegal settlements that have been built in the occupied Palestinian territories must be released to the Palestinian people. Israel must understand that Jerusalem does NOT belong to Israel. At best it will be a shared city. And the most bitter pill for Israel to swallow is that the Palestinian's will be free to arm themselves and to defend themselves against ANY foreign invasion.
And then we'll tell Israel that for all the harm and murdering they've done for the past 70 years, the United States will be sending 15% of Israel's U.S. stipend to the Palestinians for rebuilding their country as long as Israel is a benefactor of the United States.
How's THAT?
How would they make a profit off that?
have no more interest in a "peaceful solution" than our very own neocons. The whole "peace process" is all just for show.
Bill Clinton said this today...
"Based on my experience with Mr. Netanyahu, he did what he thought he had to do to keep the ball rolling and not completely alienate the United States initiative," Clinton told reporters at the end of a news conference on his new role as the U.N. special advisor on Haiti.
"This is the opening play," he said. "This is his response to the Obama administration's first move."
"It's just the beginning, and it's a drama that will have a few more acts," Clinton said.
Death in Gaza
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0412631/
The institutionalized hate and loss (on both sides) made me wonder wether peace is ever possible.
www.ifamericansknew.org/
..The politicians have talked this to death and no one has ever been successful. Coexistence only works with tolerance and there doesn't seem to be very much tolerance on either side of this issue.
is worth ten from a moderate. Of such baby steps is diplomacy made.
Thank you!
I wonder if the Palestinian people would agree with you? I somehow doubt it.
That's why the elected their own extremists, Hamas, believing only they would look after the interests of the Palestinians. In Gaza at least.
Negotiating 101: Offer, then counteroffer. Baby steps.
Thank you!
Say what you mean and mean what you say. Cut of Israel's allowance until such a time as Netanyahu can act like an adult. No more "secret deals" in which we wink and smile at Israel's crimes while telling the Palestinians that we really, REALLY mean what we say in public and THIS time for sure!
Say what you mean
Mean what you day
But don't say it mean
Very well put indeed. :)
I have tried my best to live by those words for a long long time.
Except, not if the steps are taken backward.
Baby steps won't work when Israel is behaving childishly, stamping its feet if it doesn't get everything its own way.
The "offer" you make isn't an insulting non-starter with absolutely no honesty whatsoever.
oops
it was called the second intifada
worked out great
Sharon the butcher as they call him marched to the temple mount?
care to tell me how many people sharon killed by walking on the temple mount?
i can tell you.....ZERO
yet that called for a response of blowing up busses filled with children and nightclubs?
you are a sick human being
and you really need to go back to stormfront and spend more time with your neonazi buds
the fbi is watching
That means the slayings in Shatila were just a fantasy right?
Let's just hope it's a beginning to a peaceful ending. Being unreasonable at this time is not looked upon favorably by most of the world.
Deserve no more of our support and defense than do United States wingers. A right wing zealot of any nationality is unhelpful in efforts to make peace. Netanyahu is a right wing zealot. Why the debate? He doesn't want peace except on his terms and as long as only Palestinians bear the cost. Like wingers here, "compromise" means everybody else does it Netanyahu's way.
Much as I hate to quote fictional characters you might remember Spock's line: "Only Nixon could go to China". There is truth in this. The initial steps, however tentative, must come from the more paranoid extremes of the political spectrum of both the Israelis and the Palestinians or they are unlikely to enjoy wide popular support.
Two things would clear most of the problem away:
1. Palestinians must agree to Israel's right to exist.
2. Israel must pull back to its 1967 borders.
I know it may the hardest thing for each side to do, but if they want peace, each side must give in on something big.
We should demand this, and not put one more dollar into the situation until both sides agree.
And if you think #2 will ever happen, I'll have some of what you're smokin!
Hmmmm......maybe THAT'S the idea - get everyone wasted and mellow, THEN bring these issues up.
Could herald in a new way of negotiating!
Nothing will be resolved while Palestinian land is occupied by the Israelis and Hamas and the Palestinian authority do nothing for their cause while going around screaming "death to Israel". It's tempting to build a wall around them both and let them annihilate each other. Maybe the survivors could act like adults.
I think this issue is totally distorted in the MSM and even in most of the Blog world. I was listening to a representative from Hamas on the radio the other day and I was wondering why in the world don't they just agree to this. But what they don't agree to is not that Israel as a state has a right to exist. Rather its that Israel has a right to exist as somehow a state that is primarily for the Jewish people. I can see how they wouldn't want to agree to this. What other state currently exists that is designated as being exclusively or preferentially for a particular religion or race? The last one that I can recall was South Africa which used to give special rights to the white race. The world recognized that for what it is: racism. Saying that Jews have special rights in Israel is the same as saying that whites have special rights in South Africa.
What other state currently exists that is designated as being exclusively or preferentially for a particular religion or race? Lots. Saudi Arabia, indeed most of the middle east springs to mind. Iran too, where you must be an approved Muslim even to stand for office. Grab a suitcase of bibles and go proselytizing in those countries and see how fast you wind up in jail.
Try becoming a citizen of Germany if you have German parentage, or even grandparentage. You will have a smooth road. Now try it without. Not so easy.
Many if not all European states are ethno-nation states.
Or Japan. Talk about an ethnically based state. Think you can become Japanese just by loving the food and speaking the language perfectly? Think again. You will never be accepted, socially, or legally, as an equal in that "advanced industrialized democracy blah de blah". Same story all over Asia.
MikeD, your comment is not sufficiently fact-aware. Ethnicity is the primary determinant of citizenship or of ease of gaining full citizenship status in many many states throughout the world. The bias against this idea when Jewish ethno-nationality is involved is always telling.
If you're not of Japanese ancestry you have no hope of becoming a citizen. If you do have such ancestry you would find, as many ethnic Japanese returning from places like South America, that the best you can hope for is second rate citizenship and disdain for such foreign influences as you might display.
.....Try becoming a citizen of Germany if you have German parentage, or even grandparentage. You will have a smooth road. Now try it without. Not so easy. Many if not all European states are ethno-nation states.......
Did you happen to notice that Germans with German parentage would have a natural connection to the land in Germany primarily through their German blood?
Benjamin Netanyahu has no connection whatsoever to the land in Palestine. He is an Eastern European with NO Mediteranean blood therefore he does not belong in Mediterranean Palestine. Jews with a blood connection to the Mediterranean DO belong there. So do Christians and Muslims with a blood connection to the Mediterranean.
I also belong there. I'm an Italian-American with Roman ancestors. My people were in Palestine for 500 years and settled the city of Jerusalem. Therefore, I have a connection to the land. Do you get it?
and 22 arab countries
NEXT
Just because Pakistan set itself up as an Islamic state doesn't mean that India answered by making itself a Hindu state. There are many Muslims, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists in the governments in India.
BTW: Which nation has the largest Islamic population in the world? India.
ok...so india pretends to be free...despite their caste system
doesnt change that islamic countries treat non muslims as second class citizens
the only arab country that didnt was iraq....pre bush's illegal war
now...try and be a christian in iraq
I'm not saying that religion doesn't play a part in politics- like the USA, it does. But Part III, Article 25 of the Indian Constitution states:
Article 25 also, in effect, abolishes the caste system.
And Article 26:
India has one of the largest populations of Muslims, but it is Indonesia that actually has the largest Islamic population in the world.
Based on the belief that governments should be representative of the people, what percentage of Muslims make up a countries overall population Indonesia, Pakistan, and India have the largest Muslim populations. However, Muslims make up only 14% of India's population. Muslims make up 88% of Indonesia's population. And Muslims make up 97% of Pakistan's population.
BLOODYISRAEL's vaunted 'right to exist' is crap!!!! 'Rights' are by their very definition are EARNED, not bestowed upon this rabidly, racist, FASCIST, apartide, this comic little war-mongering eastern European dictatorship.
Eastern Europeans have no blood connection whatsoever to the land in Palestine. They don't belong there. All should be kicked out.
I guess Israel is doing just fine financially and militarily so they won't be needing any more cash deposits, military hardware or spare parts then.
_Netanyahu accepts limited Palestinian state_
If you give up your guns and your rockets and turn your eyes away,
You can live in what little space that is left for you to stand.
If you accept this, your sentence, you’ll also acknowledge your fate…
_____________________________________________
_Israel targets smuggling tunnels in Gaza_
There will be no tunnel here, no resistance exposed by
Bared teeth or fitful soul, only those bent and docile
Shall unbend their backs and burrow out of their grave.
I find extremist specificity to be more helpful than ambiguity that hints at flexibility where none in fact exists.
Now we have a discussion... is a Palestinian state on the terms laid out likely to result in a peaceful stable long term solution?
The answer is of course "no"... he knows it, we know it, Palestinians know it.
We wouldn't expect a Palestinian opening gambit or statement of principles to reflect final settlement terms either, and there is no harm in Palestinians laying that out their vision for all to see too.
Here's a joke form of the current situation...
Israelis: "You can have a Palestinian state, so long as it isn't a state"
Palestinians: "You can have a Jewish state so long as it isn't Jewish."
Cool. Let's see what we can work out.
... and what would Ahmedinejad do exactly other than use Israel as an excuse to divest attention from his own domestic troubles?
Why would you think that your last paragraph even makes sense?
And the use of caps makes it clearer, don't you think?
I suspect someone has been drinking way too much King Grape.
government with what, nukes? Because that is the only way they could get near Israel. Won't the Palestinians get in the way? Oops! And we Americans can take the moral high ground about violations of International Law why?
"Demilitarized Palestine"? So when Israel launches an unprovoked attack upon the civilian population as has happened many times before (e.g Rafah, Gaza), the Palestinians should have no ability to respond? Who does that fat fascist think he's fooling?
The squatters living illegally on Palestinian land should be forcibly removed, arrested and deported from Palestine. Palestine is the entirety of the Gaza Strip and West Bank, not the 40% of the land which Israel wants to "allow" the Palestinians to keep. The houses that Israel built illegally on Palestinian land and should be given to Palestinians whose homes were destroyed by the Israeli Terrorist Force (the ITF).
Israel's collective punishment of civilians - destroying the homes of the relatives of suicide bombers - was declared a war crime at the Nuremberg trials. Giving the homes, built illegally on Palestinian land, to the Palestinian victims of Israeli terrorism would be a small price to pay.
the Koran, The Torah and the Bible all have passages that speak quite highly of the concept of collective punishment. You'd be surprised how often the religious types want to damn a man "unto all his generations". And all the current inhabitants seem to be following their religious convictions with gusto.
I'm confused. Did the "way-back" machine somehow get involved in this conflict?
obama, that is what he is all about, making demands and when they say no he says ok and backs right off.
he is weak and needs the peoples backbone
Let the Muslim world recognize Israel's right to exist and that Israel is a Jewish state. That includes the Palestinians. Start there. It hasn't happened yet.
It's easy to throw words around, assume what you're trying to prove, ignore history, etc. But at the heart of all this is the Crusades vs. Jihad with Jews, once again, in the middle.
Let's do a thought experiment. Imagine Israel disbanded the IDF, dismantled all its weapons, and held out its hand in peace. How long before every Jew in Israel was slaughtered by the so-called Palestinians?
Do the reverse. Palestinians, Saudis, etc. put down their weapons and extended a hand in peace. Israel would grasp it gladly.
They teach murder in Gaza kindergartens, or have a kindergarten graduation ceremony featuring a play wherein Jews are slaughtered and the children applauded for having bloody hands.
I love this site, but I have to wonder why people who consider themselves liberal or progressive hate Jews and Israel.
What Golda Meir said decades ago is still true. There will be peace when the ARabs love their children more than they hate outs.
have you ever looked into a career as an author of fantasy?
TimeWastersInc
Don't be silly,both sides are being held accountable, just read the comments.....I hear ya GarthRanzz,I'm feeling like I'm not welcome at my own party
that it is perfectly possible to criticize Israeli policies without hating Jews and Israel. The new administration is doing exactly the right thing in insisting that settlements in the West Bank be stopped from expanding. In fact, if there is to be any hope of of a two state settlement the settlements must be removed. I think you'll find more balance if you look for it. There are lots of people who advocate draconian measures to force Israel to comply with whatever their particular view of justice requires. I expect that solution would be every bit as effective as Israeli attempts to coerce political agreement from the Gazans. Which is to say none at all. For myself I am very satisfied that the new administration is moving the US back toward the position of being an honest broker. I'm quite hopeful for a change.
BLOODYISRAEL is a pox on the ass of the world. Palastine has a right to exist, too!!!!
Sorry, you can't get away with painting this whole blog as hating Jews and Israel. That's a typical bullshit response when anyone dares question Israel and/or Zionism.
Why would anyone "put down their weapons and extend their hand in peace" when a foreign power is occupying their land? Maybe when Israel retreats back into its 1967 borders.
"But...but...the settlements! We need room!"
Oh, sorta like "lebensraum" in 1938?
But I do not get the 1938 reference. Clarify, please.
Never mind, I found it. I just didn't think you would throw a Nazi concept into this debate.
"Lebensraum" or "living space" (in German?)was what Hitler claimed he needed when he wanted to take Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland in 1938.
Britain and France agreed to it, even though the Czechs didn't.
The only reason I threw a Nazi reference in here is to point out the utter hypocrisy of Israel's creating settlements on Palestinian land.
Of all people, you'd think Israelis would understand the outlandishness of this policy, given their persecution by the Nazis.
.
unless you can direct me to evidence that the jews of eastern europe used weapons to mount attacks towards the germans
You are incredibly intellectually dishonest. That straw man was a stretch, even for you.
some people.
Judiaism is a religion, a religion is a way to worship God. Nothing BLOODYISRAEL does worships God in any way!
hope you returned to see how you got flamed
but there is no hate from the left
hahahahahaahahahahaha
i may be the only honest person on this site
and i am more progressive than most
Except for that Massi guy from Buffalo. They're what we call,"Whoosies" up here.
.
How the Israeli's can seriously consider an independent Palestinian state with still holding on to their lebensraum in the east. It would be West Berlin all over again. Conclusion, they're just talking out their ass.
I wouldn't consider any talk of an independent Palestinian state from an Israeli politician serious unless abandoning their lebensraum was part of it.
if you believe that israel does not have the right to be an independent state
The idea that Israel is unique among nations in wanting to be a Jewish state or in granting special rights to Jews is preposterous. There are numerous countries that grant special rights to one religion - Ireland, Italy, Saudi Arabia and every country in the Arab world to name a few. Netanyahou's position won't lead to a peace agreement soon but that wasn't going to happen anyway soon. It's a small step in a process that still has quite a way to go. Obama is right to push for negotiations but its not going to happen this year or next.
I was in Ireland a few years ago, and I didn't see any evidence they granted special rights to a particular religion. Are you referring to Northern Ireland?
.....There are numerous countries that grant special rights to one religion - Ireland, Italy, Saudi Arabia.....
What's that about Italy? I'm a natural born American citizen with an Italian passport. I have an Italian passport because I was able to prove that my Italian bloodline was not broken even though myself and my parents were not born in Italy. My religion has nothing whatsoever to do with why I'm an Italian citizen. I'm Italian because my parents are Italian and their parents were Italian. Again, no religion involved in Italian citizenship.
.....The idea that Israel is unique among nations in wanting to be a Jewish state or in granting special rights to Jews is preposterous.....
Eastern Europeans have no blood connection to Palestine, which is in the Mediterranean. They don't belong there. Period.
Long live Israel! Long may it live in peace!
I agree - long live Israel. But if it wants to live in peace, it needs to stop persecuting the Palestinians.
(And long live a Palestinian state...oh, wait, Israel keeps preventing that.)
It's about time that the Palestinians start living up to their agreements - which they NEVER have.
.....and maybe Israel should live up to the U.N. orders to get back into its 1967 borders (along with all the other U.N. directives it is ignoring; and this isn't even addressing the fact that they have nukes illegally.)
After all the venom I've been reading towards Israel you delete a supportive post,but not the one that called for Israel, and I quote:
< {Edited, SM}
better to ask why progressives see no connection between their own type of hate speech with what occured at the holocaust museum last week
J'accuse!!!!!!!!!!!
Yet you fail to recognize that there is a difference between disapproving of what the Israeli gov't does and how the Iraeli population feels.
Not all of the Israeli people agree with what their gov't does. Are they Jew haters too?
Or are you just beating a dead horse?
seriously
if you cannot see that the level of discourse is not just "dissaproving" of israeli policy
why dont you read the posts again
Look how well our government represents all of us.
Liberals / Progressives to that shooting in the Holocaust museum.
Lost all remaining respect for you bud.
Hell, only Faux nooz tried to do that. Except for you.
Tell me Joe, how much do they pay you?
as i have seen nasty rhetoric coming from both sides
i suggest you pick up the collected writings of one prof finkelstein, who has made a career of not only attacking israel, but what he calls "the holocaust industry"
books which are used by neo nazis and other jew haters to support their hatred towards jews and the state of israel
better yet, why dont you look up a bit in this thread and read the post left by chopvac
his rhetoric supports my case
for it is one sided and filled with ad hominem attacks
and fox will start paying me, as soon as soros starts paying john
Oh yeah,real humanatarians they are
http://web.israelinsider.com/views/3998.htm
But you've been painting most of us with the same brush for months now. I guess that makes you one of them, doesn't it?
I have no time for either or. They are what they are.
But, when someone starts calling people a Jew hater just because they disagree with what the Israeli gov't is doing,is, discriminatory. Either that or just full of hatred.
What is it that you won't understand that someone can be anti Israeli govt' and still like the Israeli people.
Not all Israeli's agree with what their govt' does.
I ask again, Are they Jew Haters too?
Alot of Israeli's want peace Joe. Their tired of the policies of the Israeli gov't. They want peace.
And they want it now.
Yes, some people go overboard with their remarks about Israel.
But Israel has gone overboard with some of their actions. Yes, Hamas has done that as well.
It's too the point now that the truth is lost.
Someone has to make the first move for peace.
And building on Palestinian land is not the way to go about it.
Israel needs to stop the building in the West Bank and Hamas needs to be exiled from Palestine.
Someone has to make the first move.
Who's big enough to do it?
if all the posts were like yours, i would have no problem...but they arent
the majority are rabidly anti israel...and border on jew hate
it disgusts many here that there is even such a thing as a "jewish state", yet it doesnt bother any of them that there are 22 arab countries, and in some, to practice any other religion could bring the death penalty....thing is, in israel...there is no penalty for not practicing the jewish faith
at least on this site, the concept of the history of the region begins in 1967...that would be like deciding the history of the united states started in 1980....and only wingnut fucks believe that
all i want is balance
that, and an honest answer to my questions
if the arabs care so much to have a palestinian state...then why did they not create one from 1948 to 1967?
if the un cares so much about the territorial integrity of the palestinian state...why did they only create 242 after 1967...and said nothing while jordan and egypt controlled the west bank and gaza, respetively
How long have the Palestinian people been living on that land?
Why should it have to be created when they've been on that land for thousands of years?
True, it's not a "sanctioned" country by the UN
or recognized by them.
But it is a country.And always has been.
Israel was created after WW2.
How long has the Jewish people lived on that land?
Thousands of years. It was only recognized as Israel in 47/48.
All of this stems from religion.
The bible says that the Jews wandered the desert looking for a home for 40 years.
Moses(I think it was him) stuck his staff in the ground and said Eureka!
Who were the people living there when all this went down?
The British were the ones who carved out Israel. Are the Israeli's within their original boundaries now?
And what about Palestine.
They're being starved and kept in abject poverty.
Firing those rockets was stupid. But that was Hamas. How many did those rockets injure or kill? I think they killed 6?
And Israels response was to kill 1600+.
And damn near annihilate any structure in Gaza.
Hamas need to be annihilated and exiled from Palistine.
Israel needs to calm the fuck down and stop killing so many people.
Israel is doing itself harm with such drastic responses.
Like I said, who's big enough to make the first move?
.....it disgusts many here that there is even such a thing as a "jewish state", yet it doesnt bother any of them that there are 22 arab countries, and in some, to practice any other religion could bring the death penalty....thing is, in israel...there is no penalty for not practicing the jewish faith.....
There are 22 Arab states that mostly practice Islam. But the people are there because they have the blood of that particular nation -- and not because they are Muslims. They have the right blood because their parents had it and their parents before them. It's the blood of nationality -- not of religion.
Eastern Europeans have no Mediterranen blood and they don't belong in Palestine. Jews from the Mediterranean DO belong in Palestine. It's so easy for me to understand. Why can't you?
And please don't question why the Palestinians didn't make a state from 1948 to 1967. Palestine is their nation. They have the blood of that nation because their parents had it and their parents before them.
Both sides, your argument falls flat on it's face.
This straw man was really a stretch, it makes your previous one look like it was made of stone. There are 3 little piggys that would really like to talk you into doing some contracting for them,.
did you edit her post because you deleted the post that she was referring to?
{Yes. SM}
israel had no control over the disputed territories
yet no palestinian state was created
why is that?
why did the un never once make a directive for both jordan and egypt to pull out of palestinian land?
Israel has an annual $100 billion economy (400B sheckels)
American foreign aid amounts to about $2.6 billion (10.5B sheckels)annually.
What is +/- 2.5% of this nation's economy worth, in terms of the grief Israel continuously dumps on the USA?
Not much, I say...
Pull our money out, today!
Let Israel go its own way..
all that will happen is that israel will become a debtor nation just like the usa
oh, and all the tech and weapon systems that america sells to israel, and then israel improves upon...and returns to america...that relationship will cease too....and will cost american lives
our tech. to other countries (i.e.nuclear,machinery,weapons etc..) Israel is no friend of America,See USS Liberty on and on and on
never a thread on israel goes by when someone brings that out again
think israel sells tech to other countries without america's ok?
and let me tell you one thing
the soldiers who didnt die while riding in the bradley fighting vehicle sure dont think like you
but i think you should start your own personal boycott of the state of israel
you can start by tossing out your cell phone (tech created in israel) and your computer (run on a chip created in israel)
the world will appreciate the silence
Uncle Joe is astounding. The attack on the U.S.S. Liberty was unprovoked and covered up. What about Jonathan Pollard, every president is asked by Israel to release this spy. He spied on the U.S. for our ally, Israel. Take off the blinders.
http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace0...
they dont accept it
for it states that israel must make concessions before being accepted as having a right to exist
it also calls for the right of return for "palestinian refugees"...come on, that aint gonna happen
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