Oops! Arctic Ice Isn't Expanding, As Wingnuts Claimed. It's Thinning.
This video shows how scientists were misled. They thought the healthy ice was expanding, when it was actually thinning and spreading out over a wider area. I can't wait until all the right wingers who've been triumphantly pushing this as proof there's no climate change acknowledge they were wrong. I'll just sit here and hold my breath:
WINNIPEG–One of Canada's top northern researchers says the permanent Arctic sea ice that is home to the world's polar bears and usually survives the summer has all but disappeared.
Experts around the world believed the ice was recovering because satellite images showed it expanding. But David Barber says the thick, multi-year frozen sheets crucial to the northern ecosystem have been replaced by thin "rotten" ice that can't support weight of the bears. "It caught us all by surprise because we were expecting there to be multi-year sea ice. The whole world thought it was multi-year sea ice," said Barber, who just returned from an expedition to the Beaufort Sea.
"Unfortunately, what we found was that the multi-year (ice) has all but disappeared. What's left is this remnant, rotten ice."
Permanent ice, which is normally up to 10 metres thick, was easily pierced by the research ship, said Barber, who holds the Canada research chair in Arctic science at the University of Manitoba. The team finally reached what it thought was stable ice, only to watch a crack appear just as researchers were preparing to descend onto the floe.
"As I watched, over the course of five minutes, the entire multi-year ice floe broke up into pieces," Barber said. "This floe was 16 km across. Something that's twice the size of Winnipeg, it just broke up right in front of our eyes."
Relax enjoy the ride!
Isn't it better to die trying to make a difference than to just curl up in the fetal position and lay there?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
which of course we are not doing we want things to be the way they used to be. Good luck with that.
Time marches on
Okay then, I hope you are working on your swimming ability.
I don't want to go back, I just want to try to keep things from getting as bad as they could be.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
lol . . but it's raining ice caps on us. What goes up must go down. Spinning wheel
Yeah, you may not live on the coast now but hang in there and you might one day.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
to rent.
What if its futile?
Personally I'd rather adapt to the change, than die trying to stop a change that can't be stopped.
Of course that is a whole nother argument, whether or not its too late to do something about.
If it makes you feel better, have at it. Just don't kid yourself that you can change anything. The tipping point was reached a long time ago. Had we changed our ways back in the 60's, we might have avoided this. As it is, it is far, FAR too late.
This was built into human beings from the beginning. If you've got a species capable of changing its environment to suit itself, that is exactly what it will do. And with no major predator to stop it from overbreeding, it will simply keep doing what it does until the environment is gone. There's no way around that.
Agent Smith was right - we are a virus.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
I made my money so let the young people figure this one problem out besides I have no children. Life is good for me. I say this to make you think!
Mon, 11/30/2009 - 15:05 — Evet
Relax enjoy the ride!
______________________________________
sarah palin to all her male relatives?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I get tired of Evet's constant pessimism. Am I the only one?
I'd rather hear from a teabagger who has something intelligent to say. (I know, I know, teabagger and intelligent is an oxymoron), but constant negativity is not a solution, it's just whining.
Propose something positive.
Sorry Evet, I've been hanging around here for awhile, heck this site even links to my site occasionally, but sometimes I just wanna say, lead, follow, of GTF outta the way. IOW, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
Whew, glad I got that off my chest.
Let me guess the right wingers reply. Obama is sneaking there each night and melting the ice with a hair dryer.
Hell, this fact won't phase them because facts never do. They'll keep screaming "hoax" and fluffing their tea bags.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
PoP, don't put it past them. They may steal your idea.
NOBODY 2012
....they'll just cut to the chase, throw a hair dryer on the ice, take a picture of it, send out the memo to the usual propoganda tools, THEN blame it on Obama. Won't even matter to their audience that the fuckin' thing isn't even plugged in.
I'm just superstitious enough to hedge my bets.
they think NASA and the NOAA are a tree hugging liberal operation. They won't dare do that. Then share a few links links like these from NASA and the NOAA with them and maybe, just maybe the light bulb will turn on a little.
Perennial Ice Cover: Data (1978-2001) and Projection
http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/vis/a000000/a002400/...
CSB: Tipping Point for the Arctic Perennial Ice Cover 1978-2007
http://gcmd.nasa.gov/records/GCMD_CSB_ArcticI...
RECENT WARMING OF ARCTIC MAY AFFECT WORLDWIDE CLIMATE
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/tops...
NOAA - Global Warming Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwar...
Goodnight, Frau Blücher
No ice, now they can drill for oil.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
we need a carbon trading bubble to jump start the economy.
That is what Cap and Trade is all about.
Collateralized Carbon Obligations and Carbon Default Swaps. Then when they can't get enough of those to
swindlemarket they will make them out of thin air as Synthetic Collateralized Carbon Obligations.There is no end to what can be done with derivatives.
Derivative Meth Labs Galore.
You only need a fresh supply of suckers. Or the old suckers with more money.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
and six feet under may as well give er a try!
Or they can drill each other.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Don't they already?
I think so because who else yells, Drill baby, drill?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Talkin' about sarah and her lover du jour?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Amazing a little speck of dust in space can support so much life diversity isn't it?
I suspect the denier response will be along the lines of " You're going to believe the word of a Canadian researcher! what the hell do Canadians know about ice!?"
A solar wind stream flowing from a coronal hole on the sun should reach Earth on Dec. 3rd or 4th.
Spotless Days
Current Stretch: 7 day
2009 total: 250 days (75%)
Since 2004: 761 days
Typical Solar Min: 485 days
http://www.spaceweather.com/images2009/30nov0...
I think by focusing on the ice sheets we miss the whole point. Global warming means more heat, or energy in the climate system. Storms are the way the system tries to equalize the energy. More energy means more severe storms.
Look at the record droughts in Australia, rains in the US and Europe, typhoons in the Pacific, and floods in regions. That's the immediate danger of global warming.
the last two winters we're colder then hell way colder then normal.
but that's weather, not climate.
we just set a record for the latest hard freeze. First set in 1905.
has been going up the last ten years. and ten of the last 14 set records.
Some stuff you can't make up!
technology will fix everything.
Because now I have to scrap it and buy a new one or I'll miss out on my daily exchanges with you guys.
A one day freeze doesn't mean a trend. But a record freeze shows the larger swings in the severity of storms.
Oil Drum here
The EAI says 'Peak Oil' has passed. That is all she wrote.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
..and peaking supply is bad, no?
oil and natural gas discoveries?
Gee, science deniers fooled by lack of understanding of science.
Boeing 737 the wings flap to get it off the ground.
The hell you say!
NOBODY 2012
Take a picture of those bears while you can, because they'll be gone soon.
I wonder how long it'll take to lose all the big wild land mammals? Whaddya think - 40 years? 50?
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
....Hey, I resemble that comment...
Cue the Kabuki....
I was just subjected to Sean Hannity chortling today about how global warming is a hoax! It is hard to believe that anyone can be that ignorant
... they believe an invisible dude created everything and is miraculously going to fix it all when we despoil the place.
taking care of business.
However, they never buy it when I told them their check was on the mail. Funny the selective credulity of these types, eh?
If you hold your breath
They'll just say the solution
Is to open more
Oxygen bars.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://amog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/ri...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Where in that video did it show ninety percent of the ice disappearing? If that is a time lapsed composite I wouldn't use it to support the claim that the multi-year ice has disappeared. I don't think it goes back far enough in time to show that. It needs about another ten years for a fair comparison.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Never in your lifetime, or any of our lifetimes, or any time which humans have been on the earth has there been such a lack of arctic/antarctic ice.
Jeebus, they've been taking ice core samples for over a hundred years and the ice cores go back thousands ... but not now.
This is a case where I'd be delighted to suddenly find out that the wing-nuts were right all along and that things were really okay.Clearly they are not.
A truly disturbing development.
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
the term wing-nuts is entirely appropriate since it includes many climate scientists who hoped for a promising sign. It is not entirely bad news since any increase in surface ice coverage increases the planet's albedo. If you follow the link to the story it seems that more than a few scientists were dismayed to discover the situation is worse than was thought.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
As I understand it,the video isn't supposed to depict ice "disappearing" rather it shows what looked like expansion.What the research expedition discovered is that the multi-year "permanent" ice is thin and rotten.
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
Kind of like winter in Texas.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
for the polar bears I suppose.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWmIBKHs8yk
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
oh really says: Susie, can I be the beneficiary of your life insurance policy?
Note: I'd rather you were alive, but if you're just going to throw your life away, I could use the money. I might even be able to afford health insurance.
... use the money to move to high ground.
BTW, oh really's note goes for me too. I don't wish ill on any one. (but there's a lot of people I think should get a fair trial.)
Some may want to take note of this fascinating article about how arctic science is created and (sort of) reported:
http://climateprogress.org/2009/11/30/climate...
The gist of this is that while it is clear that the Arctic is the portion of the planet that is heating faster than anywhere else, the reporting on these changes lags because of a lack of permanent meteorology stations beyond land's end.
***
For a real sense of what is going on, here's a comparison between the extent of Arctic sea ice on September 10 of 1980 and of 2007, the year of minimum ice extent:
http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/prin...
The comparison could not be more stark. And keep in mind that the sort of ice coverage for the year 1980 had been considered the norm for at least a couple of centuries.
The ocean is warming, not the air. Warm water melts ice. The smaller the ice mass gets, the faster it melts. When it's all melted, the air will immediately begin get warmer. And warmer and warmer. . .
If you don't believe it, check your ice box or cooler after the ice has melted.
The big fear right now is that once the Greenland ice sheet melts sufficiently, the enormous lake of cold, fresh water now held under that ice sheet will flow into the northern Gulfstream and completely fuck the hydro-thermal dynamic that causes the Gulfstream, forcing it to stop flowing. This would stop warm water from flowing from the South Atlantic and trigger another ice age in the Northern Hemisphere.
The last time one of these ice ages ended was about 10,000 years ago, before the late-neolithic discovery of agricultural practices, an ice age which began after the ice sheet in eastern Canada melted and released cold, fresh water into the Gulfstream. The population of humans is thought to have been ~1 million until agriculture was "discovered" shortly after the end of that ice age, so there wasn't a huge effect on humans. But if an ice age were to occur now, with billions of humans dependent upon grains grown in the Northern Hemisphere, we're all liable to starve to death.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
.
I read predictions that state that the Arctic shipping channels will be open year round by 2020...
... Just imagine all the new shipping ports, too!!!
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Feed Americans.
BBC reports: "Major sea level rise likely as Antarctic ice melts"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/838...
If this occurs we can say goodbye to New Orleans, Miami, half of Manhattan, Venice, much of London and much of Rotterdam. And that's a very partial listing of cities at risk.
It isn't possible for Reslugs to get any damn stupider.
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