So Now We Know Why Wall St. Doesn't Want Health-Care Reform: Death Panels!
By Susie Madrak Monday Sep 07, 2009 6:00pmSo now we know who the real death panelists are!
After the mortgage business imploded last year, Wall Street investment banks began searching for another big idea to make money. They think they may have found one.
The bankers plan to buy “life settlements,” life insurance policies that ill and elderly people sell for cash — $400,000 for a $1 million policy, say, depending on the life expectancy of the insured person. Then they plan to “securitize” these policies, in Wall Street jargon, by packaging hundreds or thousands together into bonds. They will then resell those bonds to investors, like big pension funds, who will receive the payouts when people with the insurance die.
The earlier the policyholder dies, the bigger the return — though if people live longer than expected, investors could get poor returns or even lose money.
And really, who could possibly have a problem with that? Why would we think that enormously powerful financial interests would want to, you know, protect their investments by making sure our health care is less than optimal?
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Not only can the insurance companies make money on not providing health care but also they can steal the life insurance money from the same people!
Only in America has capitalism run amuck!
Quite the racket, ain't it? These guys are really slick.
how do we rid the body politic of these life-threatening parasites?
Not really. This is the same lack of humanity and decency that is commonplace in China (mine workers dying by the thousands, the government's murder of political prisoners to sell their organs for profit, the theft of farmland, etc.)
I liken it to religious terrorism: the difference between Osama bin Laden and Pat Robertson is what they can get away with and public opinion, not their desire for violence. It's the same with the corporations in question versus their Chinese counterparts: the US insurance industry would happily allow more people to die to make a bigger profit, but the public outrage wouldn't allow them to get away with it.
Blackwater could be involved?
That's Xe now. They still do the same thing ofcourse.
How do you pronounce that? "Z"?
They will always be Blackwater to me. Although if I were to rebrand them, I would call them "Blackhearted."
douchebags.
x22
I would call them sociopathic, and PROUD.
More like Cee, like clear bottled spring water. Not the filthy backwater swamp liquid that peels your skin off.
Oh wait, there just the same.....don't drink it, it's poison!
Blackwater's local announce here, did say "like Z".
http://www.newsobserver.com/917/story/1405570...
But, what I'd prefer to call them isn't printable or pronounced Z, She or Cee.
Funny how it sounds like the name of a new perfume or digital gizmo. Shows how these folks' thinking is as subtle as their approach to conflict.
They pump out more of that High Fructose Shit Syrup jack up the obesity rates and more people die younger. People buy these "life settlements" then die from obesity related issues before they hit their 50s. Then they get a cut of the money to produce more High Fructose Shit Syrup.
This kind of thing comes as no surprise to me, there is no limit as to what these Wall Street maggots will do to make a buck. This is truly putting a price on life, I will not sully my dignity by considering a Wall Street executive as a human being. They are human trash, nothing more.
Empowered by this gov., and I don't care if they slap the name 'Democratic' on this 'whited seplacure'. The very first corporate welfare bail-out was MF WALLSTREETBANKSTERS. Geither, Summers, Paulson, Rahmie, PUKIES to the core. O-bought-ma is such a stupid tool.
It's called viatical settlements and it's perfectly legal. It's usually a viatical broker who does the buying and makes the money off of it. Usually from terminally ill such as Aids to pay for medication and end of life. The catch though is the banks getting involved. With banks getting involved you know it'll get screwed up
that's the problem - bundling a bunch o policies (or any piece of crap, it seems) and allowing other greedy bastards to bet on them. Same kind of fraud that allowed the banks and other financial institutions to steal all our money last year.
There Oughta' Be a Law!!!
I don't think the securitization thing, in and of itself, is the problem. If there is more money chasing these insurance policies, then people wishing to sell these policies should get a better price.
The reason our money was stolen wasn't because of the securitization, in and by itself, but rather, because the institution was deemed "too big to fail", and therefore required federal bailout.
Too big to fail = Too big to exist. I'm all in favor of breaking up these too big to fail corporations, so that no human failure requires a federal bailout. The best way to insure that the securitization scheme works is to not provide an implicit arrangement for a federal bailout in the event things screw up.
Wikipedia makes a distinction between "life settlements" and "viatical settlements". The NYT article seems to be referencing "life settlements" that involve a less certain determination of life expectancy.
My own policy provides that if I'm declared terminal, with 6 months or less life expectancy, then I can get a 50% payout, with the balance due at death. So, the viatical option is probably no use to me.
Having a market for these products could increase the amounts available to people wishing to sell their life insurance policies. But, given the past performance of the banking corporations, I do wonder what kind of mechanism would be in place to prevent a ponzi scheme affair similar to the derivatives associated with the sub-prime mortgages. I'm rather skittish about any of these things so long as Obama/Geithner desire to maintain the "too large to fail" corporations.
How long is it before we install gas chambers and crematoriums?
what we dont have those now ???????????????????????????????
it is gambling
and it is sick
and wall street firms shouldnt be allowed into the biz
this is how they fucked up the economy the last time
Do you remember Rumsfeld's idea to put "terrorism on the stock market"?
I don't remember all the details, but people would place BETS on when and where a terrorist attack would occur, and that somehow, the "market efficiency" would cause this to be a real predictor of terrorist events? Turning terrorism into some kind of sick, vile sports betting marketplace?
This reminds me of that.
On having the stock market explained to him:
Sounds to me like y'all are a couple of bookies.
-- Reggie Hammond, Trading Places
Tip o the hat
They are dead pools. Used to be a sick trend of groups of people betting on which celebrity would be the next to kick. Wall Street is recycling as only they can.
THIS has been going on for a LONG TIME.
Also, Texas really does have DEATH PANELS. It's the Texas Futile Care Law and was signed INTO LAW by then Governor George W. Bush. Is it any wonder the DEATH PANEL LIES STARTED WITH TEXANS? They would DEARLY LOVE to make that law NATIONAL.
should take policies out on them and see if someone will cancel them out.
I wouldn't call this as being similar to a death panel. No, its much more worse than that. This plan by insurance companies is more ghoulish. Heck, I bet they even use the mortgage terms financial insitutions used to describe the level of risk they passed onto investors to. If your likely to die due to some pre-existing condition your labeled "sub-prime", if your not your labeled "prime" and so on.
These companies and investors make natures vultures, maggots, etc. look pretty good in comparison.
it would be to easy for them to put a contract out on someone.
...scary 'cause it's true.
That will probably come later on to I bet. Here is how it will play out:
Investor: Damn! My expected return on investment is dropping because granny Williams keeps hanging on. The insurance company told me she was expected to only live six more months and its been 2 years now. Rocko, go over to that woman's house and put her permantely out of commission!
Rocko: Right boss!
Figures these efftards would figure out how to make a buck on people dying... Disgusting!! Totally sounds like a really bad B movie!
A friend sent me the link to the NYT article this evening with this comment:
"Rich people have found a way to gamble on how
long financially desperate people will live. We are living in a Philip
K. Dick novel."
We dusted off the ol' guillotine. What's that? The blade's gone dull you say? That's ok, no need to sharpen, it's still plenty heavy.
all they have to do to make a profit is go out and kill all us old bastards who bought life insurance in order to put us six feet under and not leave the liability to our families. Is Obama ok with this? I'll bet that he is.
I hope you're first on a list.
I assume that you will be the one sticking the needle in my arm.
Can't you READ?
YOU HAVE TO SELL YOUR LIFE INSURANCE POLICY OFF FOR CASH FIRST!
THEN THEY CAN MAKE A PROFIT FROM IT!!!
So don't sell off your damn insurance policy.
Die at your own speed.
Have fun.
Good grief!
Proof positive we need Glass Steagall back, asap.
To complete the process, let's cut to the chase and start issuing credit default swaps for these securities.
I heard that there is a company run by morons called AIG, and that these morons are still paying face value for the policies.
"But some who have studied life settlements warn that insurers might have to raise premiums in the short term if they end up having to pay out more death claims than they had anticipated."
_______
How can insurers pay out more in death claims from policyholders than anticipated?
They can't: one policy=one death=one payout.
No other way to study it and come up with their warning of raising premiums short-term. Slave labor, here we come.
“But some who have studied life settlements warn that insurers might have to raise premiums in the short term if they end up having to pay out more death claims than they had anticipated.”
is due to...
“investors will keep paying the premiums that might have been abandoned; as a result, more policies will stay in force, ensuring more payouts over time and less money for the insurance companies.”
All in all, I don't think this thing is bad. I do think it's bad that people have to resort to selling their life insurance due to inadequate health insurance. I do believe it's bad that an uninsured person is charged 3 to 4 time for a medical procedure than what an insurance company is charged for the SAME EXACT PROCEDURE.
But, setting up a market so that people can sell their life insurance, I don't see a problem with that, so long as Uncle Sam isn't called in down the road to bail this market out.
Which is exactly what is going to happen, it's the same fuck-tards running the show, just trying to find the next Wall Street Aristocrat equivalent of a get rich quick scheme.
there is nothing so uncommon as common sense , you did not get the memo crap it was in you mail box , shit pie .
were those on the boards of private health insurance denying claims left and right.
and why the dems never called the private health insurance companies for what they are--l.e. death panels--is beyond me.
I'd say I can't believe they'd do something like that, but of course they'd do that. They never miss an opportunity to make a profit.. That's disgusting.
Here's one physician's take on 'death Panels'. "The doctor conducts a “death panel”.
How do they twist something like this into 'knocking off granny..'?
The death panels have been around for a long time. Generally, they take the form of insurance company denials of treatment based on the effectiveness of the treatment to deal with the current illness. If a patient has the resources, they can pay for the treatment and sue/appeal to the insurance company for reimbursement. Otherwise, the patient can die, and it may never be known whether the treatment could have been effective.
For example, (example within the family), AML (Acute Myeloid Leukemia) or (Acute Myelogenous Leukemia) has, as a treatment option, high dose chemotherapy in association with a bone marrow transplant. But certain patients are denied this treatment, based on the age, which affects the likelihood of success. Now, the favorable outcome of this treatment is not good, no matter what. In the case of an older patient, the outcome is less good. But, with no treatment, the patient is dead. But the death panel did decide that there was no hope for the patient, and the patient did indeed, die. edit AML w/relapse
Now, I'm not saying that this situation was wrong. But this nonsense perpetrated by the Republicans about "death panels", as though by maintaining the status quo in health care, that the current approach is an endeavor to preserve life, without regard to the likely outcome is complete BS. We've had the "death panels" all along. They basically apply a cut-off point where the likelihood of success is traded off by the cost of the procedure. It's called "generally acceptable medical practice".
That's where I get a bit disillusioned, where these morons, many of who have had no real interaction with the medical system espouse their opinions, especially in the case where the "so called" death panel involve only the patients advanced directives.
This is EXACTLY the sort of shit that should be illegal, across the board.
This shit should be illegal!
republicanism is a mental illness!
by all means lets find a nice little island for them , say a one way ticket , no landing strip have to chute in , gather up all the brass and their familys turn the TeeVee on and nuke them , oh yea all quite on the western front . Next christians vs the lyions , oh i saved the best for last , pol vs pol with rusty swords and the crowd has bows and arrows .
We could send them all to that trash island floating around in the Pacific.
The insurance companies back the bank in their endeavour.
The banks buy the policies and pay out, bundle them and sell them back to the insurance companies, hospitals and health care corporations.
These entities then go through the bundles compiling lists of names and then build up a pool of people to whom insurance payouts for claims will be denied and effective treatments for illnesses withheld so that they are not cured and/or die sooner than they would have in order to trigger the payout as fast as possible. But before the hospitals let you die an early death they will make sure they have drained your bank account of the money they KNOW you have as a result of the initial payout.
Cynical? Yes, if life has taught me anything it is to be cynical.
It is a VERY bad idea to give your health care providers the financial incentive of a million dollars or more to see you dead.
How to beat the system in two words:
OPT OUT
Don't buy life insurance, don't buy health insurance, don't buy stocks, don't buy products made in China (nearly impossible except for food).
If you don't give them money they have no leverage on you.
In fact, if you just bank the money you would have to pay for life and health insurance (and I mean REALLY do it) you would be fully covered for whatever happens in the future unless of course it happens in a month or two.
Most insurance policies for medical top out at around $250k, if you socked away the premium for a family of 4 (~1300 per month) you would have that much available to you in 16 years and 5 months.
And that doesn't even include any interest you would have earned on it.
Put it into a nice safe long term low yield (~3%) bond and you'd have over $350k in the same period of time.
And the bonus: Some bean counting loser with the financial incentive to see you dead would not be part of the equation, you'd just be able to pay. AND you would be able to hire someone to negotiate the payment with the hospital as well, they will do that you know. They want to be paid and with the right approach (as in the right lawyer) you can get the same price as the insurance companies.
Something to think about.
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