Tehran Death Toll at 19 As Demonstrators Are Gunned Down in the Streets
Sadly, I can't imagine what on earth could motivate Americans to so strongly protect their rights. And of course, a brutal crackdown in Iran is inevitable:
An uneasy calm settled over the streets of Tehran Sunday as state media reported at least 10 more deaths in post-election unrest and said authorities arrested the daughter and four other relatives of ex-President Hashemi Rafsanjani, one of Iran's most powerful men.
The reports brought the official death toll for a week of confrontations to at least 19. State television inside Iran said 10 were killed and 100 injured in clashes Saturday between demonstrators contesting the result of the June 12 election and police wielding truncheons, tear gas and water cannons.
Iran's regime continued to impose a blackout on the country's most serious internal conflict since the 1979 Islamic Revolution.
But fresh images and allegations of brutality emerged as Iranians at home and abroad sought to shed light on a week of resistance to hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
The New-York based International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran said scores of injured demonstrators who had sought medical treatment after Saturday's clashes were arrested by security forces at hospitals in the capital.
It said doctors had been ordered to report protest-related injuries to the authorities, and that some seriously injured protesters had sought refuge at foreign embassies in a bid to evade arrest.
"The arrest of citizens seeking care for wounds suffered at the hands of security forces when they attempted to exercise rights guaranteed under their own constitution and international law is deplorable," said Hadi Ghaemi, spokesman for the campaign, denouncing the alleged arrests as "a sign of profound disrespect by the state for the well-being of its own people."
"The government of Iran should be ashamed of itself. Right now, in front of the whole world, it is showing its violent actions," he said.
State-run Press TV reported that Rafsanjani's eldest daughter, Faezeh Hashemi, and four other family members were arrested late Saturday. It did not identify the other four. Last week, state television showed images of Hashemi, 46, speaking to hundreds of supporters of opposition candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi.
You think maybe they have a Patriot Act too and call this Low Level Terrorism?
Yes, it's awful. And it has always been the cost of freedom, over there as well as HERE.
Come to think of it, maybe our inability to stand up for our rights is why we are no longer free.
USers had stormed through DC upon the release of the Bush v. Gore decision, demanding Bush step aside, the state wouldn't have opened fire?
I do not doubt it for a minute.
But we Murkins are too used to our 'liberties.'
Oh, yeah: we were schooled by the '60s, too. There are a lot of us still alive who remember the state opening fire on us, one way or another. and we are reminded carefully, every year, on the anniversary of the casualties of such temerity: May 4, four dead in Ohio. We all felt we'd lost friends that day...
it very hard to get that amount of rage, short of something painfully obvious happening.
Bush v. Gore was the perfect example of the concept of throwing a frog into boiling water.
It was such a slow process, and the Bush team was able to chip away and act the way they did in such slow increments, that people never really were bombarded with the sudden reality of what was happening. It was like death by a thousand cuts. Gee, looks like we got screwed on that one; that's hard to believe; fuck, we should have won that one; this is crazy; wow, they are totally fucking us; well, I guess we lost... figures.
If that whole process would have been condensed into a day, it would have enraged people a lot more. But it didn't, and it was confusing, and people didn't know what the fuck was going on, and we just threw up our hands.
Now, let's say that in 2004 there was a strong inclination (through polling, and just general momentum) that Kerry was going to win easily. Election day comes, Bush wins, and simultaneously we get the hugest flood of reports of voter irregularities that you could possibly imagine. Just EVERYBODY pretty much has some story about voting machines being blatantly, OBVIOUSLY rigged. You have to search through a hundred people to find someone who didn't have the experience of having the machine 'accidently' count their vote wrong, or just basically melt down when they punched in Kerry.
And then Bush and co. immediately come out with the 'We need to just move on', and the right wing noise machine kicks in with the 'sour grapes/why can't they just accept defeat?' meme.
Which is, I don't know, a variation of what happened in Iran.
Something like that happens here, and I could envision American's taking to the streets. And things turning brutal.
incrementalism has been key in implementing so many adverse actions-- whether political, economic, social, environmental, etc. not by accident as i think we concur.
They've been waging a coup of 10,000 baby steps since Nixon. Always taking great pains to keep changes below that threshold that provokes public rage. Death by habituation. I think that the Bush regime was so blatant, because they believed that their grasp on power was so secure that they could stop wasting time on meaningless pretenses of caring about liberal democracy, liberty, human rights or the Constitution....even if the public remembered rage, it would be too late to do anything about it. That's one of the reasons I find it so distressing that Obama has such apparently low regard for the Constitution. He's been talking a good lofty line, just at the time that the People were showing signs that they've had more than enough, but on Constitutional issues, nothing is changing. If anything, it looks like he's trying to consolidate the harms that the Bush regime committed and expand upon them. Smoother rhetoric, but a whole lot of the same old same old.
I speculate that today our government could get away with firing on citizens for no more than about 48 hours. And... with 350 million-or-so guns in the country, I don't think it would be very long at all before they started getting return fire.
about it. The Big Lebowski.
And to think the rest of my family is out bowling right now.
do it to us.
Haymarket Square bombing.
Kent State shootings.
Birmingham riots, attacks on civil rights marchers.
Chicago, 1968
Tompkins Square Riot.
Ludlow Massacre.
Bonus Army attacks.
There are dozens, probably hundreds, more examples of the federal or state governments attacking unarmed protesters. Recent occurrences, like the 2004 NYC Republican Convention and the 2008 Republican Convention in Denver, suggest that these governments will continue to use whatever means necessary to oppress peaceful protesters. What's most interesting about these attacks is that so many were popular responses to the predation of elites--the rich, the upper class--in collusion with government, on working people. Some things never change.
FIFY
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
these days...
where state police shot up a dormitory at Jackson State University killing two students shortly after Selma.
there were the murders of three civil rights workers in Philadelphia, Mississippi.
are sure to get louder over Iran. Had McCain and the Republicans won I have no doubt we would be gearing up right now to go in. Troops would be getting mobilized and Democracy would be On The March! once again (whether you want it or not!).
Anything the Rightwingers can do to distract from what's going on here - all the disasters THEY created - is viewed by them as a good strategy.
Let's hope Obama continues to have a cool head and resist calls to get more involved.
the hateful/incendiary mccain beach boys variant 'bomb-bomb-iran' occasionally goes through my head. what a disaster his mideast plan would have been.
right wingers confuse temper with strength, imo
http://narrowtranche.blogspot.com/
scroll down mid page
china blocks google to prevent people from knowing the truth..........about iran. there's certainly some
thoughts/concerns about tiananmen square.
governments, no matter who they hire to help control the net....cant
they will never learn
the chinese people have already worked around every block
same with the iranian people
its simple...the best hackers dont work for the gov...for they like to have fun
For a few reasons:
1. It would end the violence. If he really cares about the people of Iran, he should offer to step down, and the mullahs should take him up on it.
2. Appointing a successor, or holding a plebiscite, would not fundamentally change the way the Iranian govt. does business. Even Mousavi was pretty much in line with the current policies of the govt.
3. And not as important, it would certainly muzzle the warhawks in the US who see Akmedinejad as the latest boogeyman. The threat of armed conflict would decrease.
Just my two cents.
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
1) If Ahmedinejad cared about the Iranian people, he would have spent the last four year tending to Iran's economic situation instead of wagging his peener at the international community.
2) These protests have, I think, permanently called the legitimacy of clerical rule into question. Part of it depended on the Supreme Leader being above the fray of electoral politics... and Khameini blew that all to hell.
3) Hell yes. Obama took a big step towards healing the rift between the US and Iran when he formally acknowledged the US's role in overthrowing Mossadeq.
It's very sad to see what is going on, yet there is not much we can do but watch. It is an Iranian issue, and they have to sort it out on their own. (America should stay out.)
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
yes, we definitely have done quite a lot already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6k6FO9gah8
Kissenger on BBC saying "we"(US) may have to consider regime change if this current situation fails to install a "popularly based" government in Iran.
So very not helpful.
..from that souless, unrepentant war criminal.
There is that.
is alzheimers kicking in?
Which is quite an accomplishment, considering the competition.
...but, I'm still rooting for the people. Probably the best help we can give them is to help them by helping tell their story to the world.
Revolution should start with the citizens. They are fed up with the leaders of their country, the voting system, and lack of voice. Republican view of freedom comes from a war tank and machine guns. Democratic view of freedom comes from the people with marches, expressions of disgust with their current system, and true empathy from other democratic nations. I hope the Iranian people make the changes they want and need thru peaceful demonstrations.
...taking hostages as a means of extorting obedience and compliance from a captive population is a war crime and a crime against humanity that subjects the perpetrators to criminal prosecution at the Hague. The Mullahs have effectively kidnapped Rafsanjani's relatives in order to extort obedience from him. In doing so, they just demonstrated to the world that they are only thugs in clerical garb. Same way the goons from the Bush regime demonstrated their own illegitimacy and thugishness when they committed similar crimes in the so-called war on terror.
I don't imagine that that act is going to win them any love from the Iranian people when the news of the crime becomes broadly known throughout Iran.
According to unsourced twitters, the other relatives rounded up before her were released already.
BBC Persia Article Link (Farsi)
Google Beta Traslate Link
Headline of Translate is fairly clear.
Unsourced reports she was asked to sign a statement she would not interfere anymore as a condition of release.
I'm sure they feel that Rafsanjani got the message they intended him to get. Or maybe they realized what a stupid thing it was that they were doing.
these guys are heading down the chinese path
didnt work for china
it will work less with the iranian people...who have had more of a western experience than the chinese
this regime has 5 years left....tops
if the world stays strong with sanctions...maybe even less
I'm surprised the Iranian government took this long...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
"Guardian Council: Over 100% voted in 50 cities"
That's Iranian Guardian Council. Link
And that link is Presstv which is pretty much like English Xinhua (but Iran not China). The complaint they say they refer to was put in by Razaei, an also-ran in the election but who is an ex-RG and most definitely an insider and not a reformer. So, this isn't exactly pro-Mousavi, but admitting fraud on that scale flies in the face of Khamenei's statements on Friday.
Something really interesting must be going on in internal politics in Iran near the top, no idea what, but I wish I was a Farsi-speaking fly on a few walls right now.
who have been monitoring what has been going on
there is no one happier about what is occuring then the ex pats living in the states
they never wanted to leave
Here is Mousavi's 6th statement hastily translated to english by a volunteer on Fark.
"The heartbreaking news of martyrdom of more protesters who are protesting the fraudulent election, has taken the public in to shock and a silence. shooting at public, militarizing the city, intimidation and show of power is illegal by all means. The same thing they're accusing the other party of. To people who call what we are doing illegal, i would like to direct them to the 27 article of the constitution which allows for peaceful protest. Do you really want to target, intimidate and scare the same revolutionary people who with the same types of gatherings toppled the shah
I personally invite you all to (?kindness?). This is your country. Revolution and law-abiding is your virtue. protesting lies and cheating is your right. have faith in your rights, and don't let people who are trying to take away your hope to get to you (make you angry). Remain peaceful in your protests. And respond to them like heartbroken parents in front of their ungrateful children. At the same time I expect the armed forces not to do things that can tarnish their names and their relation with people in the coming future. To keep information regarding the martyred, wounded and the arrested from the families serves to purpose and will not bring about peace.
I pray for the families and friends of the martyred and wish them patience."
I have links to his 6th and his 5th in Farsi on my blog if they would prefer, which as you see I really never use the blog anyway.
:)
What is your conceptual, continuity?
The ******** was tiny url. But here is direct.
A link to it was in my profile on this site anyway.
Could you please take notes and give us all the details that you can?
They're all insiders, to one extent or another -- the Guardian Council approves all candidates and they don't allow people outside the system run. That includes Moussavi -- he was a significant figure in the Islamic Revolution in his own right.
waiting to happen. Once he fails at Healthcare he is toast.
nice threadjack
you're right, that was a threadjack.
but you shouldn't tell steve e. to go "back to redstate".
he has a point. after obama fails to get single payer, or even a public option, it really IS worth asking if his faustian bargains paid off.
he let the m-i-c have their war in afghanistan; he's helping cover-up torture photos, etc.
in the end, when he gets NOTHING in return, even the last of the "true believers" will abandon ship.
obama was hired by the american people to look out for the american people.
in baseball terms, he is currently batting about .093.
Steve E isn't a troll.
He raises a good point, imo. I tend not to agree that Obama's future hinges on this current mess in Iran parlayed with healthcare, but if it pans out that way, Steve E can come back and say, "I told you so."
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
...Americans to so strongly protect their rights."
Susie, I don't think there is anything that would get most Americans up off their couches and into the streets. Even the largest protests in this country, for the best of causes, rarely, if ever, attract a number of people that could be considered significant as a percentage of the total population.
In fairness, I doubt if the number of people protesting in Iran has reached a significant percentage of their population. I think there may be a number/percentage that if reached would be too large for a government to withstand. But in a country like Iran, with 70+ million people (and a very high percentage of which is young) a real popular uprising ought to be able to attract numbers in the millions. I haven't seen reliable figures for the number of protesters this year, but is it anywhere near the number that came out in seventy-nine to oppose the Shah?
On the other hand, perhaps a realistic Iranian doesn't believe that Moussavi represents enough of a change from Ahmadinejad to justify risking one's life in the streets. In the end, these are decisions that Iranians have to make for themselves based on their own values and judgments.
Short answer: yes. Reports indicate that millions of people have turned out for the largest demonstrations in Tehran alone, and other major cities have also seen very large demonstrations.
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