Republicans Are Suddenly Terrified of Deficits As We Try To Fix The Health Care System
By Susie Madrak Sunday Jun 21, 2009 12:00pm
I feel like I'm turning into Jerry Seinfeld: Have you ever noticed how only Democratic deficits are a problem? Republicans are sticking to their Frank Luntz-authored talking points on health care (as Chris Dodd points out about Lindsey Graham on This Week this morning) and pulling their beards, speaking ponderously of the horrors of spending money to save money:
STEPHANOPOULOS: Republicans seem to be digging in, Senator Graham, on a couple of big issues. On the issues of taxes to pay for health care, on the issue of a public health insurance plan. But let me show you this New York Times poll that's just out this morning showing 72 percent, 72 percent of the public supports a government health insurance plan and 57 percent of the public is willing to pay more taxes for universal health care. They seem to be ready for the kind of change that Republicans are fighting.
GRAHAM: Well, it's just not Republicans, George. The reason you're not going to have a government run health care pass the Senate is because it would be devastating for this country. The last thing in the world I think Democrats and Republicans are going to do at the end of the day is create a government run health care system where you've got a bureaucrat standing in between the patient and the doctor. We've tried this model -- people have tried this model in other countries. The first thing that happens -- you have to wait for your care. And in socialized health care models, people have to wait longer to get care and the government begins to cut back on what's available because of the cost explosion.
Lindsey, you silly thing! I know you're only saying what Frank told you to say, but since you've apparently had government-run health care most of your adult life (in the military and in public office), you probably don't know: We already have bureaucrats standing between us and our doctor. We already wait for care, and it's already rationed. That's why these talking points from Frank aren't working - they're not our reality.
The CBO estimates were a death blow to a government run health care plan. The finance committee has abandoned that. We do need to deal with inflation in health care, private and public inflation, but we're not going to go down to the government owning health care road in America and I think that's the story of this week. There's been a bipartisan rejection of that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, you call it a death blow. Let me just press that point. Are you saying now that Republicans just as we saw in the stimulus where I think only three Republicans voted for the president's stimulus package -- if there's a government run health insurance plan, are Republicans going to vote on that against this package?
GRAHAM: I don't think it's just going to be Republicans. You've got Senator Conrad talking about a co-op. You've got other Democrats running away from the government-run health care where the bureaucrat stands between the doctor and the patient. I think this idea is unnerving to the members of the Senate and will be to the public when they understand what it means, that you'll wait longer to get treated and you'll get health care the government decides for you, not that of your doctor. So yes, I think this idea needs to go away and replace it with something maybe like Kent Conrad's proposal.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Now Senator Dodd, I think that Senator Graham talked about the public there. We just saw that hole. But his read of the Senate seems pretty accurate right now. You have not only Republicans but several of your Democratic colleagues, including the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Senator Baucus saying the public option isn't going to fly in their committee. They want something bipartisan and that can't include this public health insurance option.
DODD: Well, again, I'm delighted to hear Lindsey talk about the possibility of having something like a co-op and non-profits. I happen to support a public option, I don't think you can bring down costs without it. If there isn't some competition out there to drive down the overall cost -- costs have gone up 86 percent since '96, 1996. Forty-five percent might stay the loan, increase in health care cost. The American average working family can't afford this. A family of four now. it's $12,000. We're being told in 20 years, it could be half the gross income of a family spent on health care premiums. That is just unacceptable.
Now how we get those costs down -- you use a lot of these buzz words. No one I know is for socialized medicine. We're going to develop a U.S. plan, not a Canadian or a U.K. plan, one that meets our needs in our country. It's designed for Americans, by Americans, that isn't socialized medicine. But you've got to drive down these costs. We need quality, accessible health care in bringing down those costs are absolutely critical, or we're going to bankrupt the country. It's unsustainable. That's why we're at the table.
Now, let me make that even clearer: Dodd's right when he says the present situation is unsustainable. Borrowing money to fix this is rational, the same way borrowing to fix a major structural problem with your house is. As economist Brad DeLong pointed out this week:
America's long-run fiscal problems are caused by health care, and will not be appreciably made worse by this half-decade's federal fiscal stimulus. If restructuring the health care system can bend the curve on the rise in overall (and hence public as well as private) health care costs, then America has ample debt capacity to borrow whatever we wish in this crisis--and to borrow it at extraordinarily favorable rates as well.
If the curve of rising health-care costs is not bent, then the government's long-term finances are in trouble and so is the growth of private-sector non-health living standards: health care costs that rise as fast as CBO is projecting in the baseline cause lots of long-run economic problems, of which government fiscal bankruptcy is not the worst. Health care reform to bend the long-run curve of costs is now just what it was back in 1993: the most important issue for the American political system to deal with.
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Go fuck yourself Senator Graham.
It's just fine for you to have government run healthcare but we're not good enough for it. Fuck you, you work for us, we don't work for you.
Let's start a petition to get an amendment to healthcare reform rescinding congress's health care and suggest they purchase health care from insurance companies like you and I
I don't understand, I thought we had the votes. Why do we have to kiss the Republicans ass? Just do it. I am beginning to understand what Bill Maher meant the other day.
is a peevish, prevaricating, pusillanimous douchebag.
There's no other way to say it.
I have been asking trolls for a week to give me one example of a rethuglican administration being fiscally conservative. Ronnie Ray Gun ran a deficit very high at the time and he raised taxes. Daddy Bush also ran a huge deficit and raised taxes and we all know the story of Baby W Bush. The only time the wingnuts begin broadcasting their fiscal expertise is when they are out of office and trying to avoid the Democratic Party fixing their failures. The whole game is to avoid being shown up. If we pass the healthcare reform all they have left is the christian taliban terrorist faction of their party, the Ku Klux Klan faction of their party, and of course they have the chickenhawk neo-conservative fascist faction of the party.
of the Repugs "Starving the Beast", if the Dems are gonna get into power and feed the damn thing again?
Why don't we see what's in front of our faces?? The Repugs are anarchists posturing as uber-patriots. They won't be happy until the government is dismanteled and everything run on profit.
The government they want will serve only two purposes: 1. to start their corporate incited wars for profit. and 1. to legislate their power.
That's it.
They don't give a f**k about abortion or gay marriage or illegals, or any other social issue, except where it serves them to pay lip service to rally their base. Crumbs to the masses.
Republic Party = Concern Trolls.
This is what it's come to for them.
A National Strike. across the country.
"a bureaucrat standing in between the patient and the doctor"
The only difference between that and what we have now is a bureaucrat and a corporate crook standing in between the patient and the doctor. Time to get rid of BOTH.
It's pure horseshit anyway.
As one of the regular Canadian viewers of this site I can tell you that there are NO government lackeys standing between me and my Doc.
I book a visit(for which I'm not charged)show my "Care Card" and see my doctor.
Looonnnngggggggg before I take the words of those clowns.
What say you Canadians? Tell us about your healthcare system and how it works. I say lets have a poll right here, right now from the Canadians on their healthcare system.
Question: Are you satisfied with your H/C system?
: How do you think it can be improved?
But I'm very happy with the Canadian model.
That said,the Harper(Conservative)government along with some of his provincial counterparts have been chipping away for some time(predating the current PM)at the system-closing hospitals,capping the pay of health care pros,pressuring unions etc..Still,it's a very reliable system for which I'm very thankful.I posted this article here before,but I will again because its right on the money concerning our respective systems.
http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_12523427
I'd like to see more Canadians chime in on this.
I have yet to see any Canadians complain about it.
Probably because, compared to what we've got, yours looks great.
Believe me mud shark,I personally don't know anybody in Canada that would opt on an American style health care system.
Thanks also for your excellent link.
Like you, I'm very happy with our system.
On the other hand, provincial governments do some amazingly stupid things. One example of that was the demolition of the Calgary General Hospital in 1998. Destroying an inner-city hospital in a rapidly-growing city was one of the biggest mistakes the Conservative government ever made. Calgarians are still scratching their heads over that one.
That said, none of us would trade our healthcare system for anything. I thank my lucky stars that I'll never be bankrupted just for getting sick. And let's face it, all of us will get sick at some point. After contributing to society for all of our lives, we have a right to expect to be taken care of by our government.
...and for the kind Canadians above this post:
How many Canadians have no health care? I'm thinking that the answer approaches zero. So that means fewer people clogging emergency rooms, skipping doctor visits and working sick.
God bless all North America. And God help us here in the U.S.A.
Everyone has health care.
even homeless people.
I hear that Canadian doctors surreptitiously remove a kidney on the sly from the homeless and sell it on the black market to pay for the care. ;-)
Aside: Here in Korea, teenaged school kids were offereing to sell one kidney on the internet, so they could buy jeans and ipods, and shit. How f##ked is that?
Doesn't say much about a world crazed with consumerism, does it?? OMG!!
That is just sick!
The stories I could tell. Lots of odd things happen here. The stories I could tell. Holy, wow!!
What kinds of things?
Ask me in a open thread. So many odd things happen here. I'd have to think over the list. I've seen some doozies in 12 years, let me tell ya.
The scary part is they don't seem to surprise me anymore. What was once shocking now seems almost normal (in Korea). Am I being assimilated?
;)
... you weren't supposed to tell anyone, NoBuddy ...
;)
Most of them only use one anyway.
;)
It's true. If you end up on government assistance, health care is provided. The homless, welfare recipients, everyone gets health care.
We pay more taxes in Canada, so it's not "free"; nothing is free.
America. Hmmm... let's see, there was no problem spending $2 trillion for Irag, or giving the rich $500,000,000,000 in tax cuts. John McCain can snap his fingers and have $100,000,000,000 tomorrow, or so he said while campaigning. EZPZ. So what's with the foot dragging for providing health care for American families?
Where are the Germans and the British and the French?
Keep em coming.
What kind of healthcare does Israel have for their citizens?
I have a feelin it's not like the one here.
Korea's is better than yours.
50 years ago they were the poorest nation in Asia, and poorest in much of the world.
What about all this American know-how and can-do stuff we're always hearing about?
They know how to screw up the health of their country.
And they can do anything they want. As long as they make a fortune on the backs of others.
Then there's the flip side .
The don't know how to take care of their own people. They don't care if there's no money in it for them.
What they can't do, is the right thing for their people. Because they'd be biting the hand that feeds them.
But America is still a great country.
We have done some remarkable things in the past. We've done some great things. Yes America has been side tracked lately. I should say hijacked lately.
But America will find it's way to doing the right thing again.
How much money does Korea get from the US?
None.
In fact, they buy your debt.
But there are a few things that popped into my head.
How much has the US given Korea since the end of hostilities?
And how much do you think the US spends on the US military being in Korea every year?
just wonderin. I couldn't find any links that give the actual data on US Govt' funding for Korea.
So, I'll take your word for it.
But if someone could provide me with info on this, I'd greatly appreciate it.
THe US spends lots of money keeping the military here. But that is not a Korean decision. The US is free to go, if they choose to (but they don't want to.)
Having the military here costs Koreans a good deal of money. Some want it out. Older people and hawks want a strong alliance.
I'm sure, after the war, the US gave aid to Korea. Korea used to be in those UNICEF commercials on TV when we were kids. It's not poor any more!!!
Do you think S Korea could repel an attack from the North Koreans?
And the US just deployed a large number of Patriot missles to defend South Korea, Japan and the surrounding areas as well as Hawaii and Alaska.
I don't know. I'm just saying, the US chooses to be here. Just like you choose to be in other countries. No value judgement placed. Just a fact.
It's politics; nothing new.
I can't imagine Korea of today. With good health care? I was there 57 years ago (1952) and the only health care was a fox hole.
I didn't say it was great, but all things considered, they are doing very well, and it continues to improve. They have a state-run health plan that covers about 70% of costs. Medical care here is affordable. The very few times I went to a doctor, and paid, it was under $10. There are clinics everywhere. They have several international university hospitals now. And they are staring to open "foreigner hospitals" for people from abroad, like Americans.
Yours eyes would pop out of your head if you saw it today. Streets packed with cars, glittering towers everywhere, everyone decked out in designer fashions, to the nth degree, cell phones, mini TVs, etc., etc. They are wired to the gills.
(I've seen the pics from back then. They were poor. Now it is 13th largest economy.)
I have seen pics of present day Korea with all the cars on the busy streets and it seems hard to believe. We were in what is known as Korea University, It was in a small village,I think was just N.E. of Seoul. On the way into Seoul most of the traffic was on foot or on honey buckets pulled by oxen.
I collected a few images for you timurphy. You might be surprised.
Financial district #1
http://dance.unlv.edu/danphotosforweb/seoul1.jpg
Financial district #2 (other side of river)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...
Shopping district
http://www.mglclub.com/ga4/382518/page/files/...
Another cityscape
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...
WOW! Thanks for that. Is that the Han River in that one pic? I have a pic of the Han and the bridge over it from back then.
No that's not the Han River, it's a small tributary. The Han is much wider and now has 23 about 12 to 16 lane bridges over it: some are multi-level for the subway trains to cross.
I've seen those pics of back then. They had a ferry boat or two to cross the river.
I just saying because I think a lot of people get their impressions of Korea from M*A*S*H episodes. Back then it was all push carts and peasants, and dirt poor. Not no more: looking more like Tokyo.
kaw-maph-SOOM-nee-dah
Hey hey. Chon man eh yo.
"I thank my lucky stars that I'll never be bankrupted just for getting sick. And let's face it, all of us will get sick at some point."
You know it CL.
I'm really hoping that our American friends get some justice on this front.
:)
No complaints from anyone in my family, including the extended family (cousins, aunts, uncles, etc.). We are all satisfied with our system.
There is no bureaucrat standing in your way. You go to the doctor of your choice, and get sent to specialist of his choice (when needed), and get the care they recommend. No questions asked, just health care provided. I've never seen, or heard from, one bureaucrat-- ever.
You need help, you get it-- cost $0.
I know there are horror stories out there about people getting sicker when they've been put on a waiting list for surgery, but those are the exceptions and not the rule. As a Canadian, I am satisfied with our health care system and like pinkobait said, there is no beaurocrat standing between me and my doctor. Graham is full of it. I have peace of mind knowing that if I get sick, I know I will be compentently taken care of.
Totally man. Ditto. You can say that again. Copy. Let's one sleep nights, even if all else is crumbling around you, you know you're not going to die in a gutter somewhere.
I'd never, NEVER trade our system for yours.
I'm not the expert who can tell you how to improve it, but I'm pretty pleased with the care I have received. I've had enough of insurance companies denying dental and eyecare claims. Putting my medical care in the hands of an insurance company? No way.
If we reverse the $1.3 Trillion tax cut for the top 2% that the wingnuts overwhelmingly voted for to deplete the surplus they inherited we could pay for healthcare.
Would Ms. Graham opt out of the universal care we furnish him and others in Congress to take what he has furnished us? We pay his damned salary and benefits and I for one of his employers say that he is not doing a good job by being an obstructionist on everything. I believe that if he worked for me in industry, he would be fired for poor performance as would the entire GOP minority of NO.
What ever happened to Sen. Elect Al Franken???
I'd like to hear him weigh in on this issue to state whether or not he supports Conyers H.R. 676 and Physicians for a National Health Program???
Update on the MN race anyone???
However, there's this:
are happy with their government controlled (incorrect terminolgy) healthcare say they aren't waiting in lines and being denied care, but republicans keep repeating the Dunce, err, Luntz talking points. When are republicans going to be able to speak without a puppet master speaking for them? Does any republican have an origianal thought? And Dodd, why didn't you call him on the bullshit?
Germany's health care is not government controlled but more like government regulated.
There are many health insurances that get (currently) 14% of the income.
Everyone is insured and the non-privatized (the name is misleading as the others are 'lawful' meaning they) have to take everyone.
Still I'd foresee a drastic change in the future for Germany's health system.
To join a 'private' health care system you have to earn like 5k euros a month. And even then they screen you and your family is not directly insured.
They tried going a little more into the privatized direction (thanks to the 'privatize everything (so my friends can buy it) party and that is failing).
Also the system is a little screwed. Not everyone has to pay in but benefit from it (civil service f.i.).
privatization of healthcare, has been utterly decimated in the following election, and made almost irrelevant for a while after their edict.
Ask Mrs. Thatcher, the only reason why the tories are making a comeback is because Blair decided to play poodle to Mr. Bush.
In fact, the issue is so toxic, that no political party in the EU right now would even consider proposing a "public option," like the one the Dems are trying to shovel down our throats, with a 50ft pole.
Alas, you gotta hand it to the American PR machinery, who has been able to convince the majority of Americans to support policies which are completely opposite to even their most basic interests. We sure can't make sh*t in the US anymore, but boy do we surely know how to sell it....
Tyler Durden: "In fact, the issue is so toxic, that no political party in the EU right now would even consider proposing a "public option," like the one the Dems are trying to shovel down our throats, with a 50ft pole."
IF that's true, it's because such a half-measure would be a HUGE step backward for them.
There isn't one subject that Graham doesn't talk stupid on. that boy is unnatural.
crap that can be stored and used to blow the shit out of people and places far away from prying eyes and accountants.
For helping the health of people here at home? Seriously, you jest...
is increasing health care availability. This means early testing, early intervention, and second opinions on diagnosis.
republicanism is a mental illness!
We can say what we want to about Republicans, but listen:
"No one I know is for socialized medicine. We're going to develop a U.S. plan, not a Canadian or a U.K. plan, one that meets our needs in our country. It's designed for Americans, by Americans, that isn't socialized medicine."
That's a Democrat, and a fairly left-leaning one, as senators go--Chris Dodd, from the video above. No one you know is for socialized medicine, Dodd? What the hell does that mean--that no one you know if for single payer? You don't get out much, do you? Ever talk to your constituents instead of simply taking calls from the insurance oligarchs?
And these guys are the ones we voted for?
My respect for Chris Dodd just took a nosedive.
Agreed. That's true for Democrats, in general. The only senator who's really speaking anything close to what I think anymore is Bernie Sanders--the lone Independent.
Lieberman being, as we already know, a Republican--sort of like the rest of the Democratic caucus is showing itself to be.
I think they're Democrats - they're just corrupt corporate owned Democrats. While the Republican/Democrat dichotomy is valid for many issues, on economic issues I think that the dichotomy is between corporate owned politicians versus politicians that work for the people. And the corporations work hard with their
lobbyingbribery to see that the majority are corporate owned.Hence the Dodd/Graham exchange is a false dichotomy. A real dichotomy might be Kucinich/Graham, or Conyers/Graham.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-...
check out this interactive easy to read graph.it shows last 4 presidents and the budget deficits
CDC: Southern States Lead In The U.S. Obesity
Submitted by Carina Rose on Fri, 07/18/2008 - 08:56.
Graham criticizes Obama for earmarks, but defends his own.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/08/graham-fl...
Here's from the website Cover the Uninsured In South Carolina
NC ranks 46th out of the 50 states in health.
Somebody tell me why so many of these weak-chinned mealy-mouthed, wimpy-voiced Republicans praise private insurance coverage--and take contributions from health insurers. Opensecrets.org lists him taking $31,000 from Blue Cross/Blue Shield in the past five election cycles.
Aside from the flat-out idiocy their arguments are always pervaded with, OUR country is pervaded with idiots... so can you really blame them?
I mean, they are good at seeing a nail and all running at it at full speed to hammer away at furiously.
I mean, let's be clear. We are talking about probably THE biggest blow the GOP could ever receive (and probably ever has received) should Universal Healthcare be instituted and run well in this country. That is a concept that I believe even the most die-hard, moronic Republican realizes on some level. So what we're talking about is political survival for all these idiots spouting off the Luntz talking points.
Whatever.
I just find this idea of 'Oh, well, we have to see what the bill looks like and then we'll debate it' that McCain is shown alluding to in this clip to be complete bullshit.
You know, I know, everybody knows, it's gonna be balls-to-the-wall for the GOP when the language gets released, and the one and only goal from your party is going to be to completely and absolutely kill ANY type of public/Government-run plan.
There is someone standing between me and my doctor. And it is the insurance company. I had surgery done for carpal tunnel last fall and I had to get the ok to have it from my insurance company. We have to have permission for medical treatment. Maybe if they had our insurance and had to go thru what we did they would soon be singing a new tune.
I know what you mean. I had to call 911 to take my wife to the emergency room where they had to check her in for an emergency blood transfusion. Later I heard from the insurance co. who told me that they would pay less, I would have a bigger co-pay because I didn't call them for approval.
I think it's called precertification on my plan. Deal with the insurance bureaucrat or the treatment is deemed "out of network", resulting in more charges to the patient.
NEED TO BE TORN INTO A THOUSAND PIECES AND SCATTERED TO THE WIND!!!!!!!
I totally agree.
And I work for one of the largest.....
Yet another dichotomy where we don't have any comparison between the costs of our system versus systems used abroad. And, although we hear about a bureaucrat standing between patient and doctor, we don't hear word one about Medicare. I'm not hearing about this problem with Medicare.
I don't see the elderly in the street, protesting against Medicare, and asking for it to be replaced by private insurance. The fact is, the whole debate is a charade, since the central question isn't being talked about, namely, do Americans want to continue to be price gouged in order to generate corporate profits and enhance shareholder value under a system that costs 16% of GDP? Or, would we rather copy a system from abroad that costs no more than 11% of GDP that delivers comparable service, reducing costs?
Also missing from the dialogue is the fact that if current spending on health care, such as insurance premiums and so forth was redirected into single payer, there would be no net increase in costs. Instead, there would be a net savings.
The only reason why this debate carries on, along with the war in Iraq and so forth, is that Americans aren't paying for what their government is purchasing, which would reduce the standard of living. Instead, the standard of living has been maintained by running up the deficits. Make no mistake, there is a borrowing bubble that is going to burst. (That is likely the final bubble.) There was a meeting of the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, & China) nations where continuing the financing of our deficits was discussed. I think they're looking for an exit strategy. And given our criminally operated financial markets, they're looking for an alternative to the dollar. Consequently, I don't think single payer is just the best choice, it's the only choice. Expanding health care coverage by borrowing isn't sustainable. And when we can't borrow anymore, it's going to cut into everyone's standard of living.
America is not too big to fail.
...but I think there are many places where doctors won't take Medicare patients. I used to live in New Mexico, for example, and I seem to recall that many Medicare patients had a hard time finding general practitioners who would accept them as patients. This was because doctors could make more money by taking patients who had "better" insurance or--even better yet--those who had to pay for the whole bill out-of-pocket.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, you folks who know Medicare (and New Mexicans), but I think this is a growing problem. The attraction to profits often makes it hard for us as patients, no matter who our insurer is.
You might be hearing about Medicaid. There's a fair amount of seniors in my family, and I'm not hearing any complaints with Medicare.
Thanks for this, NB.
I did the research I should've done before posting (also talked with a nurse in my family who works with geriatric patients). You are correct that, up until recently, this was confined to Medicaid, not Medicare.
However, she said, in the last year (roughly), this is now starting to happen with Medicare patients, too. It has to do both with payments for service and the paper work involved in serving patients on Medicare. That in itself is kind of scary.
I don't think it'll be widespread with Medicare. Elderly people vote. Medicaid is for poor people, and the poor don't vote with the kind of turnout that occurs with the elderly.
Take a look at Medicare-D. The prescription coverage occurred because it was not feasible to lock up Grandma for importing drugs from Canada. And Grandma was tired of getting ripped off. Of course, the politicians crafted Medicare-D to maximize drug corporations profits. I noticed recently the drug companies are going to give us back $80B in Medicare overcharges. The rest of us pay more for prescriptions than others in foreign countries, driving up costs.
The elderly vote. So, I don't see a problem with Medicare. There may be a problem with patients who use Medicaid to fill in gaps in their Medicare coverage. And, at any rate, at least 50% of a persons health needs occurs after 65. So, if they don't want to take over age 65 patients, all of who have Medicare, they won't be working.
Medicaid I *think* is administrated at the state level. Service varies by state.
unimpeded flow of cash from the mark's (Joe Q. Public with 2.5 kids) paycheck to the corporate coffers of these scum-suckers. You f*ck with that flow (divert a little back, 'cause ya got sick or in a fender-bender) in the slightest bit, and you're given a rate hike at best or a else termination of service. At least most bookies and loan sharks will call you back after a couple of weeks to see that there are no hard feelings...
The government will stand between me and my health care?
O gee whiz I am so afraid.
How about the INSURANCE COMPANY standing between me and my health care?
Or UNEMPLOYMENT standing between me and my health care?
How about we have REAL FOOD IN THE SUPERMARKETS INSTEAD OF MADE BY MONSANTO so we won't need so much health care?
They're killing us and we sit here listening to this bunk.
We not only deserve, want, and need national health care, we need the same in COLLEGE.
Frank Luntz's life's work is to undermine the truth. He is an unrepentant professional LIAR. I realize that there will always be a market for his product, but I cannot imagine how he sleeps at night.
...Luntz began his professional career by selling Corvairs.
Cancel Bush/GOP Congress' massive Medicare Drug Benefit Program immediately. That'll shave a couple of unfunded Trillion$ from the budget right there.
There is no evidence that it has saved anyone a dime in drug costs and it obviously didn't create a single private sector domestic job anywhere. All it did was line the pockets of a favorite Republican Party campaign donor, the drug companies.
Cancel it. Now.
"What has Congress got in its pocketses?
Congress has gold from the Insurance Companies in its pocketses - yes we does.
The Insurance Companies LOVES Congress.
Insurance Companies won't hurt us . . . ."
*
its time to move on from the past i think...
deficits ARE a problem. i know republicans have lost the moral authority on that, but how the government will pay for everything is extremely important. the fact is taxes will need to be increased for this.
Society pays now for health care through insurance and directly out of pocket. To the extent taxes are employed to pay for health care, there would be savings in those insurance costs.
Our system costs 16% of GDP whereas other countries spend 11% of GDP or less. So, if we copied in its entirety, another system, we would save money, to the tune of 5% of GDP. These other systems don't have massive corporate profit costs.
I think the increase in costs is in order to pay for the uninsured while maintaining the corporate profit structure.
My problem is not that I could tell he was talking pointing lies and You obviously pointed it out exactly but why didn't Chris Dodd point it out. He was the one doing the debate. He just kept repeating his own set of talking points and making the whole thing seem impossible to figure out. Maybe for HIM but we all can see it pretty clearly. He was pitching apples to oranges and sounds like he will be so glad when Kennedy can take back over because he doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. I wish ned Lamont would run against his tired ass. He has no credibility after his bail out fall out.
Sen. Dodd got to speak first. He KNOWS the Luntz talking points by heart. He could have said to the audience, "When you hear the following phrases, please understand that you are being misled:
government takeover of healthcare–that's UNTRUE,
government bureaucrats getting between you and your doctor–that's UNTRUE,
rationing of healthcare or healthcare options–that's UNTRUE,
European-style or socialized medicine–that's UNTRUE.
These are Republican talking points which they bought from a man named Frank Luntz, whose business it is to test misleading statements on focus groups to see which ones are most effective at confusing the public. Please don't take the bait."
Sen. Graham would then have NOTHING to say in response. He'd have to debate the facts on their merits, in his own words, and that's not what he was prepared/coached to do.
But Democrats never seize that opportunity.
They can't all be stupid. My guess is that those who aren't too timid to tell the truth are simply corrupt. Think of your own senator or representative. Stupid, scared, or corrupt? And *that's* the party "sticking up for us?"
I think it's Vermont that has a registered Progressive Party. Anyone up for taking it national, state by state? We may not win, but if all the registered Democrats who are unhappy over the lack of Democratic leadership on health care (and everything else being done "in our names") defected, we'd have an impact immediately.
said that "deficits don't matter." ???
Well, deficits don't matter, if Republicans are the ones running them up.
Having a Republican lecture the rest of us on deficits, is kinda like having the late Jeffrey Dahmer lecture us on nutrition.
I can just hear it now. We are sorry Sen. Kennedy but you have been denied the life saving surgery. How many Americans hear that everyday?
It's not perfect but the people who work in it are great [way under paid but great]. 2 years ago I spent a week in hospital on a surgical ward as they determined whether I needed surgery or not [they didn't want to do it if the blockage cleared it's self which it did..damn crohns disease] I had no less than 3 doctors working on me plus a battalion of nurses. I was in a room with a bunch of old dudes who'd just had various joints replaced, they were great too, we cheered each other on. There were only two sours notes, the whining drug dealer with the broken hand who couldn't take the pain and went on and freakin' on. I'm like "dude the guy across from you is twice your age and walking on a knee he didn't have yesterday suck it up princess". The other down was the rumor going around the hospital that I was Chad Kroeger, that Nickelback douche bag.
If they were to fold up the Canadian health system in favor of an American style system the things happening in Iran right now would look like a fight in the play ground by comparison. Sure it's not perfect but it beats hell out of the alternative.
Of course not. But why not? It fits perfectly their vision of "socialized medicine": a federal program at taxpayers' expense.
The CORPORATE CONTROLED MEDIA will never let a Public Health Controled plan to be passed Because CCM is controled by the HEALTH CARE COMPANYS and DRUD companys. Just look at the REPUBLICANS JUDGES that are rulling on the AL Frankin And COLBURN case they will drag there feet until the next ELECTION because the CCM do not see the SENATE HAVING a SIXTY vote, for the DEMOCRATS, you never see that in the CCM news or HEAR , READ or SEE any thing about the case. Just think if it were a DEMOCRAT JUDGE holding up a REPUBLICAN ., it would be a NIGHTLY Thing. Plus, we have a VERY WEAK DEMOCRATIC leader ship in the House and Senate.
"That's why these talking points from Frank aren't working - they're not our reality."
This is the way I feel about most of what comes out of right wing mouths these days. Their world seems to be a parallel one which bears little similarity to my morals,values or the truth of what I see with my own eyes.
Yep. I think pretty much everybody on the left has noticed this. The media seems incapable of noticing it. On one evening news program last week they led off with a clip of John McCain saying, "Mr. President. How are we going to pay for this?" Something he never seemed to ask about, say, the Iraq war.
Didn't RayGun PROVE deficits don't matter? I mean WTF eh?
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