A School Board Member Takes High School Standardized Test and Learns a Valuable Lesson
This really goes to the heart of the morally bankrupt education "reform" movement. Pushed more by corporate interests and right-wing foundations than the needs of the students, standardized tests set impossibly high standards that relatively few students -- or teachers -- can reach. That's why Marion Brady, a teacher, administrator, curriculum designer and author, forwarded this shockingly informative piece to the education page of the Washington Post:
A longtime friend on the school board of one of the largest school systems in America did something that few public servants are willing to do. He took versions of his state’s high-stakes standardized math and reading tests for 10th graders, and said he’d make his scores public.
By any reasonable measure, my friend is a success. His now-grown kids are well-educated. He has a big house in a good part of town. Paid-for condo in the Caribbean. Influential friends. Lots of frequent flyer miles. Enough time of his own to give serious attention to his school board responsibilities. The margins of his electoral wins and his good relationships with administrators and teachers testify to his openness to dialogue and willingness to listen.
He called me the morning he took the test to say he was sure he hadn’t done well, but had to wait for the results. A couple of days ago, realizing that local school board members don’t seem to be playing much of a role in the current “reform” brouhaha, I asked him what he now thought about the tests he’d taken.
“I won’t beat around the bush,” he wrote in an email. “The math section had 60 questions. I knew the answers to none of them, but managed to guess ten out of the 60 correctly. On the reading test, I got 62% . In our system, that’s a “D”, and would get me a mandatory assignment to a double block of reading instruction.
He continued, “It seems to me something is seriously wrong. I have a bachelor of science degree, two masters degrees, and 15 credit hours toward a doctorate.
“I help oversee an organization with 22,000 employees and a $3 billion operations and capital budget, and am able to make sense of complex data related to those responsibilities.
“I have a wide circle of friends in various professions. Since taking the test, I’ve detailed its contents as best I can to many of them, particularly the math section, which does more than its share of shoving students in our system out of school and on to the street. Not a single one of them said that the math I described was necessary in their profession.
“It might be argued that I’ve been out of school too long, that if I’d actually been in the 10th grade prior to taking the test, the material would have been fresh. But doesn’t that miss the point? A test that can determine a student’s future life chances should surely relate in some practical way to the requirements of life. I can’t see how that could possibly be true of the test I took.”
Here’s the clincher in what he wrote:
“If I’d been required to take those two tests when I was a 10th grader, my life would almost certainly have been very different. I’d have been told I wasn’t ‘college material,’ would probably have believed it, and looked for work appropriate for the level of ability that the test said I had.
“It makes no sense to me that a test with the potential for shaping a student’s entire future has so little apparent relevance to adult, real-world functioning. Who decided the kind of questions and their level of difficulty? Using what criteria? To whom did they have to defend their decisions? As subject-matter specialists, how qualified were they to make general judgments about the needs of this state’s children in a future they can’t possibly predict? Who set the pass-fail “cut score”? How?”
“I can’t escape the conclusion that decisions about the [state test] in particular and standardized tests in general are being made by individuals who lack perspective and aren’t really accountable.”
Go read the rest, it's quite eye-opening.
62 percent on the reading portion? Are you kidding me? Please publish this school administrators name so I can immediately call for his resignation. I'm no big defender of these "exams", but I do believe that "Reading is Fundamental" when it comes to education. Also, I have always said that the teachers, not the students, should be subjected to these performance exams
Did you read any of this?
Did those mean teachers make you feel bad?
Yes, I read it all. You're right, he doesn't need to read well.
"He continued, “It seems to me something is seriously wrong. I have a bachelor of science degree, two masters degrees, and 15 credit hours toward a doctorate."
62 percent on a 10th grade reading exam. Something is seriously wrong. Where did you get those degrees?
You take the test. At least this guy did and you've read . . . sort of read . . . this story.
I write for a living. I have degrees and a decent IQ. I'd like to take the test myself to see how I'd do. I can't remember how to do a quadratic (sp?) equation, but hell, I'll give it a go. How 'bout you? We'll get Karoli to proctor it.
Men are basically smart or dumb and lazy or ambitious. The dumb and ambitious ones are dangerous and I get rid of them. The dumb and lazy ones I give mundane duties. The smart ambitious ones I put on my staff. The smart and lazy ones I make my commanders.
I'm in. I'd like to give it a try.
You complain about a reading score, yet, you have no reading comprehension. Hahaaahahaahaaa!!!
Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
isn't it?
CTHULHU 2012 "Why vote for a lesser evil?"
I have administered these tests many times, and they are poorly written, and designed to produce bad scores. It perpetuates the testing scam. It certainly has nothing to do with education.
One year, we had a girl who had received several awards as a junior. She was admitted to Princeton or Dartmouth I believe, with a bunch of scholarships in hand. She was a solid 5 on all the A.P. Tests - including my A.P. Calculus exam. I think she scored 34 on the ACT (36 being perfect).
Yet, she had to retake the state writing exam as a senior to get her endorsed diploma, because she was not proficient in writing according to them. The entire staff laughed our asses off.
By the way, she was going to an Ivy League school to become a writer!
My friend teaches in a very wealthy suburban district. One year they were number 1 in the state on their MEAP scores. They had a parade and a huge celebration for the kids and staff. The next year, they were on probation for failing to meet NCLB yearly progress standards.
You can't make this shit up.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
You missed the whole POINT of the article.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
Jeebus Kristmas, the whole point is that the test is an idiotic assessment. His low score doesn't mean he's an idiot, it means the test is stupid. YOU ARE A MORON.
Is is possible that there is any other explanation as to why a person might do poorly on the reading portion of a standardized test?
I don't know the capitals of all 50 states, and I can't do all the parts of trig any more either. Doesn't mean it wasn't valuable for me to learn in school (even if I don't remember the specifics, it trained my mind how to think in certain ways that stay with me), and it doesn't mean I should have been able to get out of school without tests showing I knew how to do it at the time. This nonsense is exactly the kind of lowest common denomenator crap that republicans love (it keeps the lower classes lower) and keeps us dropping competetively with other countries. Many standardized tests are terrible, but that doesn't mean that having high standards is bad. If the point of school were merely to make people able to function nominally in society, we'd stop at 5th grade.
And what's this "I have a wide circle of friends in various professions" nonsense. Why should his students be limited to professions within this guy's circle of friends? And just how did he describe mathematics (of which he obviously doesn't even have a basic understanding) to these friends?
Standardized testing certainly has it's problems as do particular tests and questions. But so do teachers who can't even measure up to their average students let alone the job they're supposed to be doing. Which masters degree of his ever taught him that this anecdotal nonsense was a valid method for evaluating these tests?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I have no idea what's on the standard tests but I took my GED in 1985, fully nine years after I had last attended school and the math was my worst subject and I still scored a 97%. This isn't to say "dig me" but that I agree that it's just astonishing that somebody with three degrees can't even get 20% of a standardized tenth grade math test correct. I think it's less an indictment of our education system and more of this person's lazy habits. Use it or lose it. If you don't do arithmetic and/or read regularly, the skills erode.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
Good for going back and finishing it. But I still expect to do poorly on the math part. My ego in college demanded As, so I took only algebra with a tutor one semester and aced it, but that was harder than jumping out of perfectly good aircraft.
Men are basically smart or dumb and lazy or ambitious. The dumb and ambitious ones are dangerous and I get rid of them. The dumb and lazy ones I give mundane duties. The smart ambitious ones I put on my staff. The smart and lazy ones I make my commanders.
That my older brother would probably be a truck driver. He's an orthopedic surgeon.
I don't know what they said about me.
a ballroom dancer. Amazing. She's a media planner. Thank God your brother's and my sister's parents didn't pay much attention to such things. And thank God your brother and my sister didn't know they were suppose to pay attention to such things.
Jeanne
Well, we are looking at a datum point of one. let's do the test on a larger number of administrators and then draw conclusions.
...and another thing - these tests are designed so that even the top percentile do not get all the answers, are they not? If so , it's a bit different than getting 62% on a classroom curriculum test.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
But a 62% on the reading section is entirely consistent with this person's report of having not understood how parts of the test could be used in day to day life. It's also unacceptable, especially for somebody with all those degrees. Maybe he should be a little more intellectually curious and do some actual, you know, reading. And ten out of 60 math questions? Seriously?!? Less than 17% of a high school math test is the best this "successful", "educated" man could do? I don't have all of those degrees but like him was educated in a system without standardized testing but I guarantee that I could do MUCH better than he did.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
They were around in the 70's, but I thought they were a gimmick and worthless back then, so I refused to take them as they weren't an exam, these tests should be abandoned, as they only hurt Americas future, not help It.
Why the hell do we make Algebra mandatory for all students? Unless you are going to science or math as a profession, it's useless. Also, use common language. Instead of integers, how about NUMBERS?
Yet, schools refuse to teach consumer math, a vital skill for adults regardless of profession.
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum. -Havelock Ellis
I'm sure there were people who argued that farmers and factory laborers don't need to learn to read, but that doesn't make it right. Denying the importance of math is, like denying the importance of literacy, denying that you can have an educated, rational society.
Europe's society is far more educated and rational than we are and they only teach Algebra to the 4-year college-bound kids after age 16.
After that, for the non-college bound, it's math related to trades. Some higher math is involved there too, but always directly applicable to career path training, such as carpentry school.
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum. -Havelock Ellis
high, I was one of the only two girls who took part in the 7th grade math gifted and talented program. I felt like a rare unicorn whenever I figured something out correctly in front of the male advisor and the male classmates, many of whom struggled with things I found somewhat easy.
Then I turned 14, and suddenly math became a hopeless frustration. I flunked Algebra I freshman year, for a variety of reasons, including the fact I was scared of the teacher. Over the summer I started a broken down version of the algebra class, Algebra X, with my cousin's football coach. Coach's taskmaster ways helped me earn a C in Algebra X, but I got into Algebra Y with a teacher who tended to lapse into teaching the students in Spanish. I am Chicana, but my Spanish comprehension is not what is now, and I was lost. I graduated high school without finishing a math course.
Flunked or dropped Elementary Algebra in college many times due anxiety in the classroom that the nasty spirited professor refused me disability accomadations for. Finally got a C in Elementary Algebra online with a wonderful hippie professor who felt safe enough to ask help from.
I'm taking Intermediate Algebra starting in January, and I hope to be strong and determined and finish the course with a decent grade, but as a history major who is quite competent in writing, reading, thinking, and talking about history, I feel many times that algebra is an endless source of frustration for me and a waste of my limited energy. I wish it wasn't required of me.
I've never seen change without a fire
Sigh. I'm sorry you've had such a terrible experience with math classes. Unfortunately, that's not at all unusual, maybe it happens more often than not. Math tests are of the devil, and so often lower level math is taught by people who don't really get math and don't like math. Imagine being taught English by someone who thought reading books was a waste of time. Not to mention the idea that some people can't learn to do math. It's no more true than saying some people can't learn to read.
I know people might jump all over me for saying this, but I don't think a person who isn't competent at math can be considered educated. It's exactly the same as a person who can't read. Math opens up whole other worlds. If a person is comfortable with math, it will be relevant to life and other studies because it conditions the mind to more careful, more abstract, more expansive thinking in a way nothing else can. It don't think it matters that much what math a person learns, and certainly it doesn't matter whether they learn it in a classroom, but without spending time thinking mathematically, a person will be more limited in how they can think about things, how they approach the world.
Why the hell do we make art and 10th grade English? You never need art unless you become an artist, and even the NYTimes is written at an 8th grade level. Let's just get rid of high school all together, it's not needed for real life.
I didn't know that.
Do you create art? Do you appreciate it? Good.
Do you use the English language? Everyday right? Does it help you to know good grammar and spelling or how to read?
Do you use Algebra each day?
See the difference? I'm all for higher education, math, and science, but there are limits to what is applicable for every student. The Europeans and Japanese have a much better system for teaching appropriate material to each student, based on career path. If they want higher math, they get it in prep for college, while other students go into journeyman programs for trades.
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum. -Havelock Ellis
Weight training doesn't just help an Olympic medalist in the clean and jerk; it also helps a swimmer and a football player. Doing geometric proofs doesn't just help train a Geometry professor; it also helps train a lawyer and an evolutionary biologist.
Training the mind is also an end in itself. Education is not just there to create more efficient servants for the .01%. A mechanic can lead a better life with an appreciation of John Steinbeck. An arc welder can still have appreciation for the wonder of the universe.
And that arc welder can marry that mechanic and raise an astrophysicist with a social conscience.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Sure, I'm proof of what you're saying. I just think trying to teach everyone with a cookie-cutter approach is a road to failure as it ignores what's best for the student. Personally, I would rather exercise my mind on many other subjects, math not being one of them.
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum. -Havelock Ellis
I hated math (except for School House Rock).
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Well stated.
Thanks, Captain
Corruption favors the wealthy.
A guy working construction uses algebra every day.
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." - Denis Diderot
Instead of integers, how about NUMBERS?
Maybe because they AREN'T THE SAME THING.
There's always free cheddar in the mousetrap, baby. - Tom Waits
See, I suck at math!
Integer: A whole number: a positive or negative whole number or zero
Ok, I'll concede and say "Whole Numbers".
The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum. -Havelock Ellis
As long as you've learned and remember every
formularecipe for every situation you might encounter, I suppose you don't need Algebra.But in the defense of Algebra, it is handy if you ever have to regenerate a "recipe" that you've forgotten.
This is a bad conclusion to come to from this anecdote. It was silly when Valerie Strauss said it, it was silly when Laura Clawson said it on DailyKos, and it's silly now that Susie Madrak's saying it. Valerie Strauss also makes another error in the end by equating judging of teachers based on their students scores with evaluating teachers and students based on their own scores.
Testing in itself isn't really a partisan issue; people on the left and the right are for and against standardized testing. Unlike so many things, this really is a place where reasonable people can disagree.
Is the test really that bad? We don't know, we aren't shown the questions. All we know is that some rich guy with connections did poorly on it. Are there liberals who still haven't internalized that financially successful people are often there by luck and birth rather than skills and hard work? Maybe this guy has a small vocabulary and is mathematically illiterate. Neither of these is all that unusual, and if these tests do nothing else, they usually do a good job measuring a person's vocabulary.
By the way, is that 62% correct, or the 62 percentile? Maybe he has a bit better vocabulary than most 10th graders in his state. If it's 62%, as he seems to think by the quote, it's hard to say how he did without knowing the standard of the test - I doubt the results can be categorized as a letter grade, which would only hold if the average were 75% or thereabouts. So call this a bit of evidence for the rich-guy-is-mathematically-illiterate theory.
As I said, I think reasonable people can disagree here, but the article does provide some evidence for people who like standardized tests. After all, we have people here, liberals, arguing that financial success, having influential friends, and unspecified higher education is a more objective way of measuring academic attainment than a standardized test. Really? How unfair is that?
You refute 3 people with experience with the test and ask us to believe you. You haven't taken the test and show that by your comments. You're silly.
You claim that we don't know what the test contains, but, you present an expert opinion on it anyway. You're silly.
You need to take a course in logic and get back to us.
Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
Do they have experience with the test? They didn't say so, only the one guy says he took it, and Marion Brady is an expert. I'm not asking you to believe me, of course, I'm no expert. The test might be terrible. I'm just saying that their arguments don't work. Which they don't. And I do see a strain of elitism and anti-intellectualism in the formulation of the argument.
Just to be clear, since I alluded to it before, I think there are many very good arguments against standardized testing, and even more good arguments against the particulars of how standardized testing is done. More of that would be helpful.
Also, I made a mistake. Although it was Valerie Strauss' column space, the article was actually written by Marion Brady.
This gentleman probably uses it every day without realising he is doing it. Maths as a subject is often abstracted away from its actual use in the real world, so when we see it, we often don't recognise it.
Ever used a spreadsheet formula? That's algebra. As a teacher, I use it all the time to keep track of student grades. Ever used a map to calculate how long a flight will be? Algebra, again. Talked about population growth or argued about GDP projections, or talked about the electoral college (no, surely noone reading this site;))? Algebra. Baked a cake and had to increase the recipe? Algebra.
That being said, it is often because maths is presented in its abstract form that we don't recognise it, and there is a very good argument to be made that maths should be more focused on statistics rather than calculus as it is more widespread, but that is not to say that humble algebra is not part of our everyday life.
guy in the room.
That's why "standardized testing" will always be unfair to the population that is learning English, who don't have books at home, whose language usage is more like rap music than academic English, and who don't learn the way other children do. And possibly the worst repercussion is that those children's teachers and principals are being judged strictly by the results of these high-stakes tests. If a school can't bring ALL of its students' scores up, the school itself can be shut down.
"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman
Well, um, yeah. If you want to interact with the rapper population, or the non-English population, or the illiterate population, fine, but one of the major societal functions of public schooling is to set guidlines and standards by which people interact. In America, the professional and academic worlds operate on the basis of reasonably proper English and at least a passing ability to operate in a standardized way. If schools don't at least turn out students that meet that standard, then they are fundementally failing at thier soceital role. It doesn't matter how smart you are, if you can't successfully execute your ideas and interact with others in a productive way, you are not very useful.
Then we can improve our schools so that, by the end of high school, everyone can read and write. Otherwise, WTF?
"Courtesy is owed. Respect is earned. Love is given." --Unknown author, found in Guide to Texas Etiquette by Kinky Friedman
What exactly was your point? Not sure what money I'm suppose to "give back"...
They have fingers and toes. geeezzz, next thing you know, they'll want to read too.
damned liberals...........
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Some comments from a veteran of the testing industry - note that I have no direct experience with the FCAT in particular (assuming that was the test involved, based on Mr. Brady's location), but I've worked with several similar tests for other states.
From the FCAT site:
http://fcat.fldoe.org/handbk/prologue.pdf
it appears that the Florida DOE and teachers picked the questions and decided how to evaluate them. As for the "to whom did they have to defend their decisions"? Typically, the answer is NOBODY. I worked for one of the companies that handles the scoring side, and when a panel of teachers makes a decision there is essentially NO way to override it - technically, they have the final say. Occasionally the DOE will intervene if an utterly illogical decision is made, but that's about it.
Of course, there's one problem with committees - participation is voluntary and a pretty substantial time commitment, so only the passionate teachers wind up signing up. This can be a serious problem - I once had a 5th grade teacher who taught "advanced English" assigned to benchmark 4th grade writing. I lost count of how many times I heard, "well, MY kids can do better"...
As for the actual questions, there's an example here:
http://fcat.fldoe.org/pdf/sample/1011/math/FL...
Judging by these, the math involved certainly isn't anything *unreasonable*. Not that that matters - I've seen questions where a majority of middle schoolers couldn't reliably add up a total for a shopping list (nevermind figure out that 6% tax on a $1.20 roll of TP is NOT $7.20).
To me, Education is the one issue that really pisses me off. What they are doing to this nation and it's educational system is a downright crime. Jesus, the kids are getting screwed. The teachers are getting screwed. It is a crime. I know teachers who can't find work. They've been subbing or tutoring part time just to make ends meet. And even then it's still not enough. Some are going to Korea, Europe, The Middle East, it seems like everywhere wants our teachers but here. Now, I ask you, what's wrong with this picture?
Teaching is as honorable as being a Dr. More so nowadays. Teachers aren't raking in the big bucks. Not like Dr's. But a teachers job is just as important, if not more so. If the teacher doesn't do her/his job well, odds are you're going to get a shitty Dr, who's only in it for the money. Teachers actually do it, because they really do like/love what they do. Teachers need more money. Better tools to work with. Better schools. Better class rooms. Then, you'll get better results from the students.
Get our teachers back here where they belong. If we don't, the future gets dimmed down quite a bit.
.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
may I add...better parents.
Not necessarily better 'educated parents', but parents who teach their children respect for others and for education, and who pay attention to what their children are doing/learning in school on a regular basis and provide support at home in conjunction with the teachers. If the parents (and the community) do not value and support teachers and the educational process - especially in the elementary years - many more kids will continue to fall by the wayside.
Fixing and Keeping our Public Education system is tantamount to repairing our economy and rebuilding what our politicians (in conjunction with the corpora-fascist and banksters) have been deliberately tearing down for the past 40 years or so....the Middle Class and a better life for all.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Have differing views on this. Hers; Learn what you need to get through school. Mine; Teach the child to THINK. To value in depth thought and to educate themself despite potential failings of any education system.
My eldest (Who lives with her) is failing 10th grade. My youngest (Who lives with me) is a straight A student who currently reads 3 grade levels higher than the one she's in.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -- Robert E. Howard
I teach mathematics in college and I can understand someone who has been out of college for many years losing their math skills-I see this quite often. However, someone with a masters degree and credits towards a terminal degree really needs to question their post-undergrad education if that is the best they can do.
Also, when it comes to teaching practical courses like consumer mathematics, this is typically what someone who is weak in math will take to satisfy the requirements for an AAS or BA degree-they barely make it through a survey course. It is a sad commentary to see what the secondary school system is cranking out.
This person isn't unable to do math, obviously but unwilling to. It hasn't helped him in his life, therefore it's not important, since nobody does anything other than the things that his circle of friends do. He's lost his skills and even a grasp of the basic rules. And rather than trying to recover his skills, he's whining that since he did poorly on the test, it must be the test's fault, see?
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
and see how you do. More importantly look at the questions and see how they apply to your life.
I've watched a generation taught to tests instead of life. Kids in high school don't get to question anything because they are so busy learning information that they will not ever use. The creativity and visual learning that is so important is lost in the wasteland. And that is so sad because the generation coming up needs to have the imagination to see the next phase of stem cell research. I mean really see it. They need to imagine a world with a lousy leader running the country and what will happen ten years beyond it so they have the courage to vote responsibly. They need to believe that there is something beyond fossil fuels. When you're learning for tests you never ask questions. You just accept who is fed you. Occupation Wall Street has taught me those kids have learned despite what they were forced to learn.
Jeanne
well put. this country is quickly becoming a large group of no imagination/no thought idiots that are being taught the lowest common denominator bullshit that is public school. these tests are a joke meaning nothing, but the biggest problem our country faces is the dumbass parents of these children who are not being educated AT ALL in their own homes. brains start at home, but, wait a minute, dancing with the stars is on!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming.
What he said
I've noticed the large number of negative statements about the author. An yet I didn't see many, if any, saying that they had done the same thing, that is taking their own local schools 10 grade standardized test. I just wonder how well we would all do if we did take the tests ourselves?
I'd love to try
That's a good point, and I say that as someone guilty of it here. Good on him (not the author actually, another person) for taking the test, it was brave thing to do, especially since people like me might comment that maybe he's just mathematically illiterate.
In a similar vein, I kind of wish people wouldn't ask, "What schools are these degrees from?" There are plenty of mathematically illiterate people in schools that have very good reputations, and plenty of people from schools you've never heard of with great math skills and large vocabularies.
In my defense, what I was trying to point out is that the alternative defense of his credentials (social connections, academic degrees, financial success) are spurious and somewhat elitist.
The greatest issue of using 10 grade standardize test on the course of study in later years is that it will often over look the "late bloomer". I know they are considered mythical but they do exits, I was one.
Back in 1966, when I entered 10th grade, I was a D+ student. By graduation I was a B+ student and a GPA of 2.99, just C+ by the standards of the day. Strange thing, my record was good enough to get me accepted at Dartmouth. It wasn't my GPA or my graduating B+ card, it was that I went from D- to B+ in three years that impressed them.
Unless the Math section of standardized test have changed radically in the last few years they really don't test someones ability to do math. What they test is the persons Mathematical Intuitive Ability. You are given a problem and a set of possible answers and all you have to know is what the right answer is. You don't need to know how to solve the problem to get the right answer because you don't need to show any work. This may not seem important but just try to program a computer where you skip some of the steps.
These tests are easy. 90% of it is just finding the two most plausible options and selecting one. 90% of the time you get the right answer. I think the person who scored bad was trying to think too much and wasted time and panicked.
The real thing that makes you graduate is the final exam that is a joke that counts for sixty percent of your final high school grade. It's a sheet of paper that can be done in 15 minutes. Even I who had massive blackouts each day of high school and never studied got through it and those standardized tests said I could go to any college I wanted to.
But if there were four choices a question, or even five choices a question, how did he manage to get one out of six?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
for me either!
It seems that a lot of these responses are attacking the person and not what was written about. It is a comment on the society that we attack the messenger and forget the message. I agree with him that a lot of the material that is taught in schools is a pile of dung.
We need the basics though out school and enough of a basic understanding of the core to allow one to progress into an area that they want to enter. If the person is not qualified to be in the area of choice they will learn that really quick. They will then have to decide what course to take. Life is a series of choices and education is a tool to help us make them. Teaching upper level math to a person that has no intention of going into technology or science is a waste of resources but if that person need to get into high tech manufacturing then the math and science at some level are necessary. Germany has approached the problem and it seems to work there. We on the other hand love to throw money at problems and solve nothing. We warehouse our students and expect them to thrive. Bigger and centralized is not always the answer. When it was proposed it was suppose to make schools easier and less costly to run, that didn't work did it.
..in the episode where the students had to take the standardized tests -- in which Bart swapped his test with the genius kid's - hilarity ensued.
The name they gave the tests?
C areer
A ptitude
N ormalization
T esting
Says it all, I think -
"..Waiting period?! But I'm mad noww!!"
- H.J.Simpson
The key idea expressed in this passage was:
a) That the standardised tests did not test real world skills
b) That the participant in the test was shocked at how much harder the tests have become over the years
c) That the participant in the test was not as competent as they believed they were going into the test
d) That standardised tests are having a negative effect on students with regards to their expectations of the future.
This is typically how these questions are structured in standardised tests, telling you that there is a correct answer to draw from the materials and only these correct answers are acceptable. Anyone who reads these tests in a way different to the "expert" is therefore wrong, regardless of the strength of their reasoning in support of their interpretation.
What the tests are teaching, effectively, is don't think. Don't reason. There is a correct answer. The expert knows this answer. Work out what the expert wants. This is the law.
Doesn't sound like the type of thing I want my kids taught.
Greg Palast did an article about how skewed these tests can be toward the wealthy idiots and away from otherwise smart kids who simply don't have the "proper" life experiences. These two examples still stand out in my head. They are reading comprehension questions (i.e. the answer should either be in the sample or deducible from it):
The reading sample:
"The year 1999 was a big one for the Williams sisters. In February, Serena
won her first pro singles championship. In March, the sisters met for the
first time in a tournament final. Venus won. And at doubles tennis, the
Williams girls could not seem to lose that year."
One of the questions:
"The story says that in 1999, the sisters could not seem to lose at doubles
tennis. This probably means when they played
"A two matches in one day
"B against each other
"C with two balls at once
"D as partners"
Here's another:
"Most young tennis stars learn the game from coaches at private clubs. In
this sentence, a club is probably a
"F baseball bat
"G tennis racquet
"H tennis court
"J country club"
The idiot from the Hamptons gets both of those; the genius from Gary, Indiana might get neither.
_____________________________________________
Here's a link to a copy of the article. I couldn't find the original, but I'm test driving DuckDuckGo and I'm not too good at it yet.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I have never read so many uninformed ignorant comments on C & L before in my life.
These tests are for one reason only - to make teachers look bad, so they can privatize education and pay people $10 an hour without benefits.
Unless you have ever taught in a classroom, you should just shut the hell up with your uninformed ignorant opinions.
What's happening to our kids today and our teachers is very evil and disgusting.
The politicians have set up public schools to fail! This is especially tragic, since many public schools today are incredible learning institutions.
Many of the District's in our area where National and State Blue Ribbon schools. They are always at, or near the top, in test scores
Yet, today with all the Draconian laws that have been mandated by politicians, they have become nothing more than Test Prep centers for state exams. Many (if not a majority) of the best teachers in these District's have left the profession or retired because of this.
I graduated with degrees in math, physical science, along with graduate degrees in physics and engineering. I taught at University for 6 years full time, and I can say without a doubt - because I actually know what I am talking about from experience, that the kids today are learning way more than we ever did. They are doing things in 10th and 11th grade that I didn't do till college. And I was at the top of my college class.
Furthermore, education is no longer education, it is indoctrination to produce as many over educated people as possible so they can fight for jobs at lower and lower wages in the future. A corporate fascist GOP wet dream.
Of course, those who cannot meet the "standards," are expendable.
It is a disservice to our country, and an absolute disgrace what these fascist bastards are doing to our kids.
So, before you go on shooting your mouth's off because some number of years ago you went to high school and hated your teacher, remember this - this is not about you! It is about the corrupt politicians trying to set up a straw man argument, so they can privatize every damn thing in this country.
I have said for years, let's have the idiot politicians take a standardized test. Most of those ignoramuses would barely get out of the single digits.
Rush Limbaugh is what a smart person thinks a stupid bigot sounds like.
And if it helps: I think the guy who took this test actually is an idiot politician. He may have been a teacher once upon a time, but now he just runs for office. And I'm guessing not just this office: somehow he got the title "Judge" despive having a CV that doesn't include legal education of any kind.
___________________________________
p.s. I'm guessing this is the same guy. Same name, same S.B. District, same county. But the "Judge" thing did throw me for a loop.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I hear you. I have a similar educational background to yours, and some experience teaching at high school and university. Quite a lot of what you're saying fits my experience and what I've read too: students today are doing more advanced work than ever before, education today is aimed towards industry rather than civics at the bequest of corporate interests, testing of teachers is used as a weapon against teacher's unions, testing of students is used as a weapon against schools in disadvantaged neighborhoods, the SATs are skewed toward the experiences of the wealthy (see fiver's comment below), not to mention that test prep is available to those with money and not available to those without, and so on.
But I don't really see a lot of people on the thread lashing out against their teachers. I don't see anyone demonizing the guy who took the tests. (Pointing out that maybe he just doesn't have the knowledge isn't an indictment of the guy, who is commendable for taking the test in the first place.) I don't even see much argument for standardized testing. I do see people who care passionately about the issue, so much so that sometimes they're fighting battles that no one has brought up.
and last year I was elected to our local school board.
I think the folks who are commenting on this thread with incredulity about this man's performance are missing the point. The point isn't that he did so poorly on the test. The point is that the test itself is poor.
If you haven't been exposed to standardized testing in the last FIVE years, then I respectfully ask you to reconsider your derision of this man's performance. Since NCLB, teaching and testing have been perverted and would no longer be recognizable to most people.
Most of us see the world through the lens of our own experience. Trust me when I tell you that schools today are NOT like what you experienced, thanks to NCLB. My district and state have now begun to require all students to be proficient in algebra BEFORE entering high school. They must be proficient in calculus before graduating high school. If they do not pass calculus, they will not receive a regular diploma and even if they get a GED, Certificate of High School Completion, Adult Ed degree or some other way out of high school, that student will be counted as a drop-out from my district. This includes the SPED kids on IEPs. They will be DROP OUTS from now on, even if they complete high school with sufficient credits.
This increase in the drop out rate, of course, will make any district seem like they have a failing school system. How many people will dig beneath the data to analyze what the data mean and how the criteria have changed? Won't they instead merely assume (like some of the commenters on this thread) that school is like their own experience and geez, I managed to get a diploma so it must not be THAT difficult. Students, standards, teachers, whatever, something must be to blame.
Again, I respectfully ask those of you who are skeptical to truly remember your experience in high school. Did you already know algebra before 9th grade? Did you learn calculus in high school or (more likely) in college? Maybe you were a math whiz, but were your English-literature-minded friends labelled drop outs because they merely passed algebra and not calculus?
The larger question to ask in this debate is "why?" Why do standards keep changing? Why the emphasis on testing? Why the impossible goals of NCLB? Why the emphasis on math and reading when there is a huge amount of data supporting the necessity of art, music, social studies, PE and other "liberal" arts to developing the facile and resourceful minds needed for the unknown conditions of the future economy?
The answer isn't as simple as making everyone want to privatize (or "profitize"--my preferred term) education. That is certainly one component, but I find it strangely coincidental that both education and the postal service are under similar attack at the same time. Both are being assaulted with impossible goals at a federal level right on the heels of a thirty-year-long campaign of unceasing negativity that has gained the level of "accepted wisdom." Everyone "knows" that the postal service is bloated and inefficient. Everyone "knows" that our schools are "at risk." Both of those commonly held beliefs are NOT TRUE. The postal service is a model of efficiency given its required parameters (it doesn't get to selectively deliver only the profitable mail or only in profitable locations). Public schools also are meeting their goals to educate an increasingly needy and ill-prepared population of students from vastly differing backgrounds.
So what is the other common factor? Why target both of these previously-popular government agencies? Why single them out especially for devastating federal intervention?
Both of them have strong unions. Both of them are/were popular with the ordinary public. Breaking both the education system and the postal service and convincing the public of how "bad" they have become serves to create "evidence" for the conservatives of how unions betray the public and create inefficient and harmful entities.
If you read this article about testing and your first reaction was to derisively question the test-taker's education ("did he get his degree from the University of Phoenix?") or if your first reaction was to applaud the new tougher standards because they supposedly will elevate the level of student achievement or fix a "broken" educational system, then I again respectfully ask you to reconsider the part you are playing in this campaign. Please realize that schools and standardized tests are NOT like what you experienced. They have changed radically just in the last five years, even.
You are being manipulated into becoming accomplices of an anti-union, pro-profitizing, Ayn Randian agenda. The conservatives know that it is human nature to want to feel competent and even superior. They are counting on most people feeling outraged at the current generation's supposed shortcomings. They have invested thirty years into this campaign and it is now bearing poisonous fruit.
"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." Dr. Seuss
...in a long time. Go to the top of the class.
Thank you, Nonny Mouse. I consider that high praise indeed, coming from a source as thoughtful as you.
:)
"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." Dr. Seuss
...is that the school board member didn't seem that concerned that he only scored 62 percent on a 10th grade reading test, because he was so "successful". If he is an elected official, I think his constituents should know how poorly he did. Reading is basic to education, and a school administrator who is a poor reader is a liability.
so, does that mean my kid(university freshman) is doing well scoring mid nineties in math, physics and chemistry?
I was so frustrated when my kids were in school because I could see how much the students weren't learning because the teachers spent so much time cramming the students brains full of crap that was going to be on these standardized tests. And believe me, the teachers don't want to teach this way. My daughter, who is exceptionally bright, barely passed the math because she's an extremely visual learner. She's never going to be good at math. So what? She somehow managed to get a college education from a good college, cum laude, with a degree in studio arts. She's also a well rounded, well read, individual who could talk circles around the people who create those tests. The reason I write this is because the tests describe above are an insult to somebody like her.They don't respect her intelligence, her creativity, her visual abilities, and her ability to think outside the box.
By the way, a lot of profound thinkers would never have passed the tests. Tesla, and Einstein are two who come to mind.
Jeanne
I don't have any kids and my education is probably behind me now. As a boy genius I, skipped grade 3, never did homework and never studied. So there. :p
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
My flippancy aside, there are so many careers these days everything is useful. The basic math and writing, etc., is important to a point, but other subjects are too.
Eg., my partner is a fashion designer. He needs his art background in everything he does. He studied art at university and then went to design school in Paris, where he apprenticed with Hermes.
I don't remember my math, but beyond the very basics I never use math.
In Korea (where I teach) they teach everything by rote memorization and use standardized multiple choice tests, Test scores are everything, but if I ask my kids to THINK they fall short. Once, in a very high level school I worked at, they said we don't have an example to follow so we can't do it. I said use your head. I got blank stares.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
I highly recommend reading some of the work of an educator named Yong Zhao. He is a Chinese educator who now resides here in Oregon. His research speaks directly about just this issue.
According to Dr. Zhao, if you compare the proficiency of Chinese students to the proficiency of American students in math, the graph couldn't get any wider apart. The Chinese students score right at the top (of course) and the American students linger near the bottom. The conclusion, obviously, is that Chinese students have a higher achievement in math than the American students.
If, however, you compare the confidence of both of those groups in math, the numbers and positions reverse. American students score at the top of the graph in math confidence while Chinese students drop to the basement when scoring for confidence. American students clearly feel much more confident than their Chinese counterparts.
Dr. Zhao jokingly concludes: "So...American kids are stupid, but they have great confidence in their stupid answers!"
In all seriousness, Dr. Zhao is really emphasizing how the Chinese (or Asian, really) system of fact-memorization and rote learning geared toward standardized testing really doesn't measure student achievement or predict future success. Other skills, like confidence, are significantly important to developing a student who can INTERPRET and USE the information he has learned.
"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." Dr. Seuss
As an ESL teacher in Korea, let me tell you, all they teach is the test and nothing more. They drill every test question example into them 10 times and they memorize away. And I mean in all subjects.
I was teaching at an elite private foreign language high school and for some 'relaxation' I gave the kids some fun and easy word problems to do. The focus was English (from an ESL website) but they need very basic math to solve them-- very basic. (I suck at math and could do them all in my head.) They could not do them.
They're good kids and they study hard and they get the test scores, but there is ZERO creativity or logic. They all draw images the exact same way; drawing 101 style with little deviation.
(I feel sorry for them; like robots. In some classes, many c;lasses, questions are not allowed and they
rarelynever ask. They never raise their hands. There is no discussion.)"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
It's actually quite sad. According to a lecture I attended recently, Chinese educators are coming to the U.S. and taking home all of the practices we are in such a hurry to throw away. They realize that despite their test scores, Chinese students are very ill-prepared for the demands of the future economy. Because our global economy is changing so rapidly, the Chinese recognize the futility of preparing students for one particular aspect of it, like manufacturing or even information. The best preparation you can provide a student to face an economy which will have challenges we can't even imagine yet, is to instill in that student the ability to innovate, the ability to change, the ability to create.
Rote memorization and standardized testing are anathema to these sorts of skills. The Chinese are trying to determine what we used to do in the past that helped create the sense of confidence our students had (despite their "poor performance" on standardized tests.)
Meanwhile, hardly a day goes by without some alarming article in a major newspaper or TV news story about how our kids fail when compared to China, and we rush to abandon all of our best practices to ensure that our kids will get good test scores.
The governor of my state (Oregon) has compared standardized test scores (mandated by NCLB) to an autopsy...something you perform on a DEAD body. True assessment should be more like a diagnosis, something you do for the health of a LIVE person and to help direct the course of the future. (He used to be an ER doctor, can you tell? LOL.)
I hope we will come to our senses and realize that by emphasizing standardized testing, we are preparing our kids for a future that looks like China's past.
Good luck in your teaching...it sounds like you have fortunate students to have you for their teacher.
"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." Dr. Seuss
One of my big pet peeves about local education is that children and young people are not taught to love books. If I read in public people seem to think it's a freak show on my part. It horrifies me to read or hear teenagers and college-age kids saying that they don't like to read in their spare time, and in the rating sections of local college professors at Rate My Professors, the recurring complaint popping up over and over again are students whining that they have to read for their classes. One of my fellow tutors at the college even admits he doesn't like to read either. Their education, and their literacy have suffered greatly as a result.
I've never seen change without a fire
It's all the teachers' unions fault.
Oh. Wait. As a member of AFT I've opposed standardized testing in favor of direct contact and holistic assessment. But, of course, that would mean paying kindergarten teachers, well, WHAT THEIR WORTH.
This discussion shows that education is a highly complicated issue. When it is simplified, as is usually the case, making invalid claims takes the place of intelligent observations. No wonder our system is so messed up!
I'd like to ask those who think we don't need a general education for students just when does a student decide what he or she will be when they grow up?
Does 2nd grade Johnny know he'll be an artist when he's 20? Does 6th grade Suzie know she'll be a teacher after college? What about 9th grade Joey? When did he decide he's going to be a doctor? Was it in 8th grade or 5th or 2nd?
While it might be nice that in Japan and "other countries" they have specific courses for specific kids, exactly how will YOU determine which kids will become what without some form of testing from a general education?
If you want to go as far as making sure your 3 year old will become an accountant and just have him or her take math classes or maybe writing (so others can read what he writes) why not decide who he'll marry and where he'll live and how many children he'll have? And I'm sure you can guarantee he'll become that successful accountant, but just in case you were wrong about his abilities or maybe in the unlikely event he can't hack that career or even if thanks to a wonderful economy, accountant jobs become scarce and he becomes unemployed, what can he do now?
Will you be in favor of someone paying to retrain him for another job? That may entail him having to learn things other already learned in school. But they'll already have those jobs and your little precious will become dependent on the state. Who will you blame then?
Children need a general education so they can be prepared for college to do what THEY want and not necessarily what you want them to do.
General studies in High School to prepare you for what you want to do in life after college. Or at least if you decide not to go to college and get into a vo-tech field, you have an idea of of the basics required.
Isn't that what a high school education is really about, providing a good academic background to prepare someone to further learn about something they want to do with THEIR life?
I have 30 years behind me as a professional biologist, I can tell you things about mosquitoes that would blow your mind that I have learned since acquiring my AS and BS degrees. Tests are intended to gauge what is learned in the short term, not what is retained over 30 years. I would likely score poorly too, not because the tests were too hard but because I was being tested for something I hadn't been educated in for decades. This is a fool's errand.
However this statement he made:
"Not a single one of them said that the math I described was necessary in their profession."
Reveals his true ignorance. That statement is the call sign of a lazy, unmotivated student. "Why should I learn Geometry? I am NEVER going to measure triangles EVER in real world!"
If this guy hasn't learned that in his professional career, he is either lying or stupid.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE SMART TO BE RICH, YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE LOTS OF MONEY
Well said indeed, and something I'd failed to consider. The GOP and the corporatists (?) have had free reign for too long. A less educated republic is to their benefit.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -- Robert E. Howard
but what's wrong with learning how to think ?
jman,
When people learn to think they learn to question. Some factions of this country don't want questioning people.
Hence the trend to spread ignorance.
my, tacit, point exactly
but few understand. Anybody remember what a bell curve is? If you want to measure the full range of capabilities of any given population then the upper limit can only be found by making a test that determines that limit. This test must be very hard and constructed so the average person will fall somewhere in the middle range that this school board member did. Personally I have trouble believing that any person with a science degree can't pass high school math but I suppose if you don't use it you lose it. I wonder how he might have done if he had recently studied the material.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
With all respect, that is indeed how testing is supposed to work. What you describe is exactly what I was taught years ago in "teacher school," especially in Ed Psych class where we learned how to apply statistical analysis to our tests to insure the results you describe.
Unfortunately, the so-called "high-stakes" testing we are discussing in this article is not that sort of test. Thanks to NCLB, the stated goal of standardized testing is for EVERY child to pass the test. EVERY child must show improvement EACH year.
This is a perversion of testing, yes? Like you, I understand that not everyone who takes a test can pass it...such a test isn't really testing anything useful at that point, right? But that is the goal demanded of school districts. NO child left behind, emphasis on NO.
To that end, standardized tests have been changing to become some bastard creation with results that are not useful to anyone except the companies marketing them to school districts. Their results cannot tell us anything accurate about student achievement beyond the warped realm of their own boundaries.
I am not against testing kids. I confess that I particularly enjoyed that part of my "teacher education" (ie how to make a test) and almost alone in my cohort embraced the tools we learned in Ed Psych. These standardized tests, however, give ALL tests a very black eye and confuse and pervert the entire issue.
Sorry I can't stay for a response...I'm off to take my son to school.
"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." Dr. Seuss
FACT #1: I work for the largest PC manufacturer on the planet.
FACT #2: I spend more time deprogramming new college hires from Ivy League schools more than the community college or tech schools kids that enter my company. As it stands right now I'll take one tech school kid over five Ivy League kids any day of the week.
This article is correct. Our kids are not being taught what they need for life at a corporation. Hell they aren't even being taught what the need for life. My wife thinks kids need to be learning how to manage a 401k and how to buy a house in the last quarter of their senior year in High School. I agree. Kids should be coming out of school also knowing how to use common Office Suites like MS Office, or the Mac stuff, whatever that is, I'm not a Mac guy. Either is fine.
This principle claims to have not scored well on the reading & math portions of standardized tests. I find this appalling! The math portion I can almost understand because one loses the formulas after years of not using them. However, reading to understand 10th grade levels should have been a part of at least one of his "master's" degrees. One has to wonder if this "educator" actually attended these colleges and earned these degrees or if they came from a degree mill where they take a mix of courses taken everywhere and consolidate them into new degrees. Folks, we have a large number of these so called colleges who turn out inferior graduates. Perhaps it is time for all educators at all levels to be required to take standardized tests to prove their capability level and maybe by doing so we would improve the education of our schools. Maybe we should also require these educators to also pass the citizenship exams so that our students could compare their knowledge with those who are just now becoming full members of American.
FIFY
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Cleaning up the 2011 threads? ^.^
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
Ya know, to the right of the posts. The site is dead enough that I clicked over to check it out- probably the same thing you did when you saw that I'd commented here, no? :P
I pretty much agree with Parent's comment, but when someone tosses out the wrong homonym in a comment that's critical of the education system, well....
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Merry Christmas to you.
Merry Christmas!
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
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