Why Does Obama Want Vets to Use Private Insurance for War-Related Injuries?
By Susie Madrak Thursday Mar 12, 2009 4:45pmCan anyone explain to me on which planet this is appropriate?
[UPDATE: Please understand, I posted this as a question because I didn't understand it. I hoped some vets could explain it to me. Someone in comments left this helpful link, saying it's been taken out of context.]
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki confirmed Tuesday that the Obama administration is considering a controversial plan to make veterans pay for treatment of service-related injuries with private insurance.
But the proposal would be "dead on arrival" if it's sent to Congress, Sen. Patty Murray, D-Washington, said.
Murray used that blunt terminology when she told Shinseki that the idea would not be acceptable and would be rejected if formally proposed. Her remarks came during a hearing before the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs about the 2010 budget.
No official proposal to create such a program has been announced publicly, but veterans groups wrote a pre-emptive letter last week to President Obama voicing their opposition to the idea after hearing the plan was under consideration.
The groups also cited an increase in "third-party collections" estimated in the 2010 budget proposal -- something they said could be achieved only if the Veterans Administration started billing for service-related injuries.
Asked about the proposal, Shinseki said it was under "consideration."
"A final decision hasn't been made yet," he said.
Currently, veterans' private insurance is charged only when they receive health care from the VA for medical issues that are not related to service injuries, like getting the flu.
Charging for service-related injuries would violate "a sacred trust," Veterans of Foreign Wars spokesman Joe Davis said. Davis said the move would risk private health care for veterans and their families by potentially maxing out benefits paying for costly war injury treatments.
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A False Flag..
Which will be used to crumble all opposition to those who will spend lots of money on propaganda (like they are doing with this Union measure) So we will let them continue maintaining our current health system. Which they benefit greatly from.
That is the industry that literally gives their CEO's billions.
After Obama named a man to the Postal Review Board, there was an e-mail from a French site that was written with the byline of Dow Jones.(owned by Rupert Murdoch since 2007) that said the Obama was going to propose to have Postal Employees pay up to 35% of their own health insurance.
The thing that stinks on this one is that they are saying "veterans groups" are citing an increase in third party collections in the 2010 budget. The VA is already charging third party insurance for some war related injuries, and for other things like tests and medicines given out. They have been doing this since Rumsfeld was in the Pentagon.
I would like to know which Veterans Groups are citing this. There is a good deal of difference in political motivation between the American Legion and the IAVA.
There's not enough information here to play 'Obama's screwing the troops.'
Not to mention which, wasn't everyone cheering Shinseki when Obama picked him to head up the VA? Do you think Shinseki would put the screws to his own people?
Obama gave the VA 2 billion more then they asked.. because they could certainly use it.
This is kinda a brilliant move by Obama.
.
I have often considered her a DINO, because of her unwavering slavishness to Boeing, to the point where I wish another Dem would run for her seat, but she's right on here.
I strongly recommend the alternet article I've linked in the quote below.
just giving the finger to the troops.
again.
Reading is Fundamental.
Obama will sign an executive order and voila. Problem solved. Good thing Bushie started that trend.
do you mean those evil signing statements that Obama castigated Bush for?
Those are the ones. Right next to the "no more politics as usual" speeches and the "end of pork as we know it" speeches. Damn he gives good speeches. Hope his speechwriter gets paid well.
really. Don't look stupid by posting shit you are wrong about.
Sorry CC. It's for your own gd good.
:)
Executive orders are different from signing statements
"President Barack Obama signed a $410 billion spending bill Wednesday that includes thousands of pet projects inserted by lawmakers, even as he unveiled new rules to restrict such so-called earmarks.
At the same time, after Democrats criticized former President George W. Bush’s signing statements, Mr. Obama issued one of his own, declaring five provisions in the spending bill to be unconstitutional and nonbinding, including one aimed at preventing punishment of whistleblowers."
Who would have to pay more? Sounds like the insurance companies. Why should the veterans care? Let the insurance companies pay.
but they will jack your premiums to do it
Get an economics education - there is no "free" health care or "free" insurance or "free" coverage - someone always pays
In the next 2 years watch the taxes increase on gasoline, natural gas, electricity, cable, cigarettes, beer and booze
Gee - then tell me the average person did not get a tax increase
Like throwing the troops to the wolves for a second time. Any talk of health care reform in US with the greedy assed for profit/insurance companies in the picture still is a joke. Is shrapnel a pre existing condition ? Whos not so bright idea was this anyways ?
How about let's put ALL Americans under the same health care system and DEEP FUCKING SIX THE "FOR-PROFIT" INSURANCE COMPANIES?????
It won't matter if you're a new born baby, a child, a middle aged schmuck, a senior citizen, Congress Critter or a veteran.
Cradle to grave.
Medicare for all.
Period.
End of story.
By the way, I posted this because I honestly don't understand why he'd do it and wondered if I was missing money. It wasn't meant to be a slam, only a puzzled question.
Here is how dasterly it is
Follow carefully why Obama wants insurance plans to cover veteran's injuries
Injured veterans are normally covered by the VA
the VA is challenged providing more than basic care ( including warehousing of vets waiting to die ) so much is outsourced
Now Obama wants to have private insurance cover war wounds
All policies have a clause that excludes injuries sustained during acts of war
If group insurance is going to be forced to cover those injuries, rates will escalate to meet the costs incurred
in the group coverage world that process is called experience rating
As to private plans:
those are pre-existing conditions so individual plans will not cover it
what that does is force the Vets to push for universal health care
we already have the over 65 yo on universal healthcare
we already have those who make below 200% of the poverty level on universal healthcare
we just had the number of children on universal healthcare increased to 400% of the poverty level
the next biggest block of people are the injured Iraq and Afghanistan vets
Those blocks of people combined will silently and quietly allow universal healthcare to slip into existence
But - what have you seen the Federal Government do that was cost effective and efficient?
Or are you forgetting the 2 - 3 x per year postal increases,
The IRS and the tax code,
how about the latest budget with the earmarks?
at what price?
60% tax rate, as in many European countries?
The state controlling what you can an can not have?
How about denied care or delayed care
Google Canada health care and read how many people wait for care, or do not get mental health coverage
Learn what your options are before you loose them
Let's just keep torturing Flush and Gingrich. Taking care of our own is OBAMA'S priority. The soldiers are definetly ours and not The GOP's. Besides, have some faith. It's only been six weeks. Rush say's it's a leftwing conspiracy that he wants Gingrich's job. Hell, Flush will blow that too. I heard Flush's third wife divorced him because he's a successful homosexual. Now isn't that nice. The GOP has a leader now. There's nothing wrong with that either.
Marta Limbaugh
has not been made yet.
Sounding board anyone?
Process in progress?
We owe it to our nation to call our prez and congress critter and weigh in.
It is your job.
Mine, too.
If that fails, a shitstorm must be initiated.
If it is important.
We have been conditioned by the events of the last eight years to assume that our government will ignore us.
Justifiably so.
Let's see if THIS government might work....
RUMOR CONTROL: THERE IS NO PLAN TO MAKE VETERANS BUY HEALTH INSURANCE
http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfmar09/nf0...
Seriously. This sounds more like the Onion than CNN.
according to the American Legion, the President himself is open to the idea of making injured veterans have their service-related disabilities and wounds treated by private insurance instead of the Veterans Administration.
The leader of the nation's largest veterans organization says he is "deeply disappointed and concerned" after a meeting with President Obama today to discuss a proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases.
"It became apparent during our discussion today that the President intends to move forward with this unreasonable plan," said Commander David K. Rehbein of The American Legion. "He says he is looking to generate $540-million by this method, but refused to hear arguments about the moral and government-avowed obligations that would be compromised by it."
The Commander, clearly angered as he emerged from the session said, "This reimbursement plan would be inconsistent with the mandate ' to care for him who shall have borne the battle' given that the United States government sent members of the armed forces into harm's way, and not private insurance companies. I say again that The American Legion does not and will not support any plan that seeks to bill a veteran for treatment of a service connected disability at the very agency that was created to treat the unique need of America's veterans!"
I presume this proposal will go down in flames in Congress. But it seems to pretty clearly violate Obama's pledges on the campaign trail:
* Barack Obama will restore our sacred trust with our nation's veterans: Obama and Biden are committed to creating a 21st Century Department of Veterans' Affairs that provides the care and benefits our nation's veterans deserve.
* Help returning service members: Obama and Biden will improve the quality of health care for veterans, rebuild the VA's broken benefits system, and combat homelessness among veterans.
* Improve mental health treatment: Obama and Biden will improve mental health treatment for troops and veterans suffering from combat-related psychological injuries.
In other news... the Iraqi shoe tosser was sentenced to three years.. 18 months for each miss.
well i dont know about this new bullshit about buying your own va insurance but i know the bastards are trying to force veterans to pay for thier meds with private insurence , cause they tried to pull that shit on me ,
I don't have many problems that need Rx's. But I have needed some Rx's.
And, as I'm sure you know tyree, it all depends on your financial situation. If you make alot, you have to pay a little more. If you don't make much, you pay minimal. I pay around 7 bucks a Rx. No one has ever asked my to have a private insurer pay.
But then again, I only see them 3-4 times a year.
well im assumeing they aint got around to you yet! i dont have a piss pot of dough and they send you some chickenshit form telling you if you have medicade where it pays for meds your ineligble fugem i aint buying that shit in the long run you dont save any money they do , the cocksuckers owe me and im getting it!
That might be the problem tyree. Medicare.
I don't fully understand how all that stuff works. But I think if you're getting aid from another source, it screws you up somehow. Like I said, I don't fully understand how all that stuff works.
My parents are on Medicare, well, The doctors want cash up front now. If they don't have it. They simply tell them we'll reschedule you when you have the cash.
My folks are going back to Britain. They're British citizens. Scotland.
So they'll get all the medical care they need for free.
This whole medical thing here is fubar.
But one would think that when it comes to Veterans, they would be taken care of. Especially people like yourself. Who have served in combat.
I think this will all work out to the benefit of Veterans.
Ya know tyree, when I go to the VA clinic, and I see all these men who are up in years, it humbles me.
yeah muddy me to , ive seen some pitiful sites in the va clinic , i was younger then most there except the vietnam guys and i was surprised to see how old they looked , in my mind im not that old but when i look in the mirror i am! i dont trust the government and thier lackys in washington, they are getting so many guys arms leggs and other major injurys now its easy to see why its lets fuck the old vets over !
Ever get any Article 15's?
once got written up for disrespect to a superrior officer, i didnt think he was!he he
4 for telling my NCOIC to fuck off.
Then I got 2 more for being late to work.
Less than 10 minutes. At 3:30 in the morning.
They had it in for me.Because I wouldn't re-enlist.But I stuck it out.
That was my way of saying Fuck You to them.
2 Of them were for getting hammered on Jim Beam then telling him to fuck off. That would be me and my NCOIC getting hammered together.
One time, we were out in the field playing war games, And the CO busted my NCOIC for having Jim Beam. He really needed it. He was an alchy.
So, being the nice guy that I am. I went and got him another 5th.
I was the guy driving the rations truck. And as luck would have it, the package store was right next door to the supply depot.
I ended up getting beer, Bourbon, Vodka, and pretty much everything else. I ended up having a small business. I supplied 100's of guys.
But anyway, I got my NCOIC his Beam. He was pretty happy about that.
But the fucker kept giving AR 15's for telling him to fuck off. Go figure.
sounds logical, mine was a pissy ensighn whos old man was an admiral the little chicken shit was a pain in the ass , another torpedoeman got put on report at the same time i did, anyway we got an exes mast , and the exo told me i screwed him up cause he was going to throw the book at the other guy but since i had such a fine record he couldnt , no good conduct ribbon ten hours extra duty confined to the ship for a few weeks!
been so long i cant remember what 15 was!was it disobaying orders?
It's a variety of things. Non judicial punishment.
It can be for being late to work. Or needing a haircut. Pretty much bullshit. If you don't shave in a timely manner, AR 15. I'm talkin Army here.
It all depends on the person in charge.
Heh! This one time, at the peak of the war games, I had 15 cases of beer and 4 cases of mixed hard liquor.. People were getting thirsty. It was my duty to help these guys out tyree. Gotta cover yer buddy's back donchaknow. :)
They really couldn't do too much to me. I had a Letter in my file for saving this guys life.
I didn't think it was that big of a deal.
He was going to blow his brains out. All I did was stick around and talk him out of it. Not really that big of a deal. Plus I had a few other letters in there that made me look good.
But it was all bullshit tyree.
What is a person to do? Leave? Do nothing?
Naw, just do it.
They could give you one for that.
But during wartime, it would be a Field Grade AR 15.
They can shoot you for those during wartime.
hell ive been caught sleeping on gun watches by my captain and he never said a word , he knew we never got a full nights sleep at sea in korean waters , if they had me shot they would have killed the best gunner my ship ever had, no brag just fact , every gun captain on my ship wanted me as a first loader,
Between serving during wartime and serving during peace time.
They have nothing better to do.
i couldnt wait to get out sometimes i thought of getting a bcd discharge but tought it out man all them rules and every body whos got one stripe more then you do can kick you around ,
The VA care may be fine but why not give every Veteran Medicare just like my parents had? They go to any doctor they want and get whatever treatment the doctor says they need and Medicare covers it.
i got no problem with that as long as they dont short change you with the same shit you go thru with private insurance where some dipshit tries to go on the cheap with your care to save some turd trappers from paying up,
Medicare is controlled by the federal govt., paid for by your tax dollars
not every doctor accepts it as payment in full
that's because Medicare does not pay the same scale as private insurance
not every treatment is available to them, as many are not Medicare approved
If they are definitely bandying this terrible idea about, then they're making a huge mistake. Why try to force our vets to depend on private insurance companies? The scum sucking bastards would likely try to weasel their way out of actually covering the vets like they do everyone else. Our veterans (and all of us actually) deserve so much better than that.
roger that annaleigh we got little enough while we served!
Yep! I am glad that my Paternal Unit didn't have to deal with this during his last illness. There was talk of him going to VA for treatment of his cancer, and he'd been to VA hospital in the past for other problems, but at least he was able to get Medicare and it covered just about everything, thank God...
happen...from VA Watchdog. Is this not a valid source?
RUMOR CONTROL: THERE IS NO PLAN TO MAKE VETERANS BUY HEALTH INSURANCE
http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfmar09/nf0...
In that case, that is a huge relief. Veterans have enough trouble with their health care and such as it is without the government trying to pull something like that.
We can hope it isn't true. We have a president that is afraid of the generals and won't end the war, so we can't afford to pay for veteran's injuries?
this is insane if true, cruel, inhumane, undemocratic.
My husband is Army retired and gets all his care for free except a $3.00 co-pay for 90 days of meds. Visits to doctor are $12.00, annual exam free. All hospital free, all tests free. He has had two bouts of cancer, all care free. Annual eye exam free.
As his wife, I get the same.
He did 2 tours in Nam. He was wounded 3 times.
well if yah dont stay in for retirement or get wounded real bad or go out of your gord about the only thing you gets meds at lower prices depending on your income and saveings, it helps some what!
any service person should get free medical care for life. period.
If they are willing to give up their LIFE for their country, the country should be grateful.
yes its a good thought but it dont work that way, my brother who was with me broke down spent 8 months in hospitals gets full benifts at the va , i served 4 yrs and get peanuts go figure!
and treating everybody else as 2nd class citizens.
The Republicans tend to use that a rallying cry for their redneck hordes in hicksville, while avoiding serving themselves (boils etc).
Everybody is 1st class under the US constitution, not just people who signed up to get free college after x years.
And it is common sense and moral to look after vets, but also moral to look after everybody to their needs and requirements.
Under a UHC system, the VA hospitals can exist quite happily with and alongside civ ones, prob be beneficial to both, skill and resource swaps etc.
free college? wow ! do you have to finnish high school first?
If there is any truth to this article, Obama should be ashamed.
Vets shouldn't have to pay a cent for health coverage.
And if they do, its just a phantom payroll deduction, as they work for the people who collect and own the taxes. So just a way of lowering their pay.
Ditto with private medical insurance for people who collect a federal pay check, pretty bad day for logic and common sense, and would pee off the troops BIG TIME
UHC, single payer, NHS etc, time for America to come into the 21st century.
what the fuck is this? a holdover plan from rumsfeld? this is pure corporatism and it stinks to high heaven. total fucking bullshit.
IF THAT IS AN OBAMA PLAN, HE HAS A LOT OF SPLAININ' TO DO!
We need national health insurance that covers everyone, including vets. If we want savings, single payer is the most economical way to go.
A business group points out the discrepancy between us and Europe/Canada/Japan, but I suspect they're too ideologically bound to draw the obvious conclusion, that we need to copy what other countries are doing. Instead, they support borrowing from China to cover the poor, and maintain the corporate welfare component of health care.
In any event, I'm astounded that the military, as employer, wouldn't bear responsibility for injuries occurring in the course of employment. Never heard that from any other employer. But the best way to make all of this moot is single payer health care, aka Medicare for All.
All countries have several systems - for example - France is set like our Medicare - which covers some cost of care,
then you add in the private plan to cover the rest, unless you qualify for state subsidy.
Some doctors do not accept the government plan, so then you pay privately anyway
If you want real health care, you buy your own coverage, and get a tax credit for the taxes collected to pay for the government health plan.
Even Saudi Arabia, which funds almost 100% of the health care has two systems - the Saudi Prince flew to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore to get quality health care, better than he could get at home.
im probably the only torpedoeman alive whos ever been smashed against a bulkhead by a 600 pound torpedo warhead and lived caught malaria in the phillippines still comes back on me sometimes , had my hands sliced to the bone by torpedoe props , had my leggs run over by loose depth charges in a storm and ill be damned if any of thats in my health records at the va!forgot frost bite dammage to my fingers from korea!
Would be a good 'stimulus' for AIG and their minion companies, next Haliburton/KBR/Blackwater(under its new name) will be given the franchise for the DoD.
Okay...what am I missing? I didn't realize that there were so many friends of big insurance companies here.
Picture this:
I'm fortunate enough at this time to have a good job with decent family health insurance. My spouse becomes an injured vet. She happens to be covered on my company health insurance policy. The insurance company is willing to pay for her health care...whether it's offered at the VA or in a private facility.
So instead, some of you are saying to let the insurance company off the hook. Let the government pay.
Original question: What am I missing about this? Why is this proposal so bad?
Besides, there's been a similar policy for decades applied to those eligible for Medicaid. It's called "third-party liability." If a Medicaid eligible has private coverage (either themselves, through a spouse or parent) then the State pays (including deductibles, co-pays, etc.) after the private insurance pays its share first.
From my understanding, the idea is that vets might not be able to reach a VA facility easily depending on where they are. Plus they would have to deal with the limitations of that facility. This idea would be that they would recieve health insurance so they could get their care at any medical facility they choose. For example if the local VA is hard to reach, has a long waiting list, and doesn't have an onocology department they could go someplace local and be covered.
Of course the devil is in the details.
I began to flip out as usual but then got a grip and calmed down , there must be more to the story than this and a good explanation , just as written or reported here it's unimaginable ... to the point that I don't buy it .
You make a good point. Nobody has all the facts but in these times, when everyone's spring seems to be wound so tight, it doesn't take much to set people off.
I'll stick with my guess above concerning what this is all about. If a veteran is covered by private insurance (either himself or through a spouse) and the service-connected injuries are covered, why not bill the private insurance? Isn't that why we pay premiums? Why in the hell should insurance companies be let off the hook? Just my 2 cents.
How is this even a story? Why is this in the news at all? And, dear goddess, wtf is it being repeated on this site.
Planted and misleading story meant to make Obama look bad so that any Republican 2012 competitor can say they "support" the troops. My bet is that Obama wants to make it easier for vets to get the same service when they pay out of their own pockets at a non-VA place as they would if they got it for free at a military hospital.
Because he is a corporatist? That might have something to do with it.
That is obscene. It's bad enough that he's selling us all out to the gangsters who run the insurance industry. But this...this is obscene. If this is true, he ought to be ashamed of himself.
First, I'd like to note that I'm a Long time lurker and love the site.
For all the complaints I see on here about the villagers and how quick they are to condemn Obama on anything, you sure got suckered into this one.
Whoever provided that VA watch link, thanks.
Jumps on CNN and AP bandwagon! Nothing more needs to be said!
Well I will give you alittle of my history. My dad was in WWII and retired back in 1963. After each of his reenlistments they reminded him that he and his family would received free medical care for the rest of their lives. Now my husband retired from the military in 1995. With each of his enlistments they said the same thing to him. Well we thought that would be great plus he would get a pension and still be young enough to still get a civilian job. He was 37. Now what did they do they changed things. Now we have to paid health insurance every quarter. We have a co-pay for the doctor and we have to pay for our meds. The only draw back is we live in a small town my primary doctor office is 45 mins away. When he refers me to a doctor that is in our net the appointment could be 1 hour or 2 hour away from home. Still I get good care from the civilian doctors. I rather go to them then the military doctors any day. This program we have would be a good program for many people. I wish civilians could get this same plan. We have Tricare Prime. Depending on the rank of the retiree is what you pay. I hope the president would look at this plan for civilians across the country.
On March 18, the White House announced it had abandoned its plan to make veterans use private health insurance to treat war-related injuries. The announcement followed a meeting with veterans' advocate groups, which pointed out that the only reason veterans were able to get private health insurance was the insurers' expectation that war injuries would be covered by the VA.
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