A good idea makes the rounds
By Steve Benen Tuesday Jun 26, 2007 2:30pmWe learned last week that of the 1,000 U.S. employees at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, only 10 have a working knowledge of Arabic. I suggested that perhaps the State Department could address the problem by reaching out to some of the dozens of well-trained Arabic linguists the Pentagon threw out of the military for being gay.
Apparently, the idea is catching on.
House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Tom Lantos (D-Calif.) and Rep. Gary Ackerman (D-N.Y.) urged the State Department Monday to hire homosexual military translators discharged under the “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.
The lawmakers called the policy “absurd and highly biased” and said it “cripples our national security.”
“We are writing to urge the Department of State to take a specific step — the hiring of our unfairly dismissed, language-qualified soldiers — so our nation might salvage something positive from the lamentable results of this benighted policy,” Lantos and Ackerman wrote in a strongly worded letter to Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte.
There’s nothing stopping the State Department from hiring these discharged linguists — gay people can’t openly serve in the military, but they can openly serve at State — so maybe the Lantos/Ackerman letter might help a bit.
But here’s a thought: if you’re one of the gay linguists who was humiliated and insulted by the Bush administration, how anxious would you be to take a pay cut in order to help these officials out? In effect, how can we expect these men and women to do the administration a favor after the way they’ve been treated?
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Perhaps the best avenue is to have those "gay linguists" operate as consultants for the State Department and get paid much, much more money for their troubles.....
Plus a huge apology.....
Problem solved.....
What's the big deal.
No one in the White House has a working knowledge of the Constitution.
I wonder if they are wanted and if cheney even wants there to be communication outside his control? there is conclusive evidence of his office outing Plame to destroy the network that finds intelligence, there are firings of personnel that speak arabic so that now no one in the region really does except the natives. Perfect if you want it your way or the highway.
these people weren't just fired for being gay. otherwise shooter would have killed his daughter's lover and his daughter long ago in embarrassment. He might have shot his wife before they were married? But if he is gay, as it appears..... probably just another one of those odd coincidences that we keep on losing the ability to communicate with allies and enemies all over the world with shooter's help
"But here’s a thought: if you’re one of the gay linguists who was humiliated and insulted by the Bush administration, how anxious would you be to take a pay cut in order to help these officials out? In effect, how can we expect these men and women to do the administration a favor after the way they’ve been treated?"
We can expect this of them because they are Americans. Though it may be denied at every possible opportunity by conservatism and the right wing, these people love their country and wish to serve it the best they can. As do we.
They are proud of their country, as am I. Really, truly proud; the way an adult is proud of another adult. Not the jingoistic pride of the GOP, proud only as much as a petulant child loves their ma-ma.
ticktock, a decent and logical way to handle the situation...which is why it won't happen, I'm afraid...
Bah. Only 10 of our people in Baghdad speak Arabic? It's the Iraqis fault for not speaking English! If it's good enough for America it's good enough for America Jr!
why would anyone want to work for someone who just fucked them over? here is the open wound, please pour some lemon juice in it. f--k this administration and it's total hypocracy. everyone has value except shit-for-brains and darthwad-cheney.
Great idea. I can see the 'gay linguists' lined up for blocks, all eager to go to work in the fucking Green Zone.
I would think of some very hard hitting expletives for the State department in English and Arabic!
Screw the Embassy.. linguists are needed on the ground, where they can save American and Iraqi lives!!!
sheesh
How can we expect them? Presumably for the same reason they signed up in the first place: for the betterment of their country. Were I in that position, I might take the job, both because I could do good work and because I'd be helping to break down the homophobia silliness.
If I were one of these people who had been fired, I would tell the administration to go piss up a rope.
In effect, how can we expect these men and women to do the administration a favor after the way they’ve been treated?
And clearly I haven't mastered the b-quote thingamajigger HTML :)
How about this idea ....
GET THE FUCK OUT
... since when are you people taking the advice of people who INVADED AND ARE OCCUPYING IRAQ?
I didn't know that being gay disqualified anyone from their Constitutional rights.Just more discrimination from the compassionate conservatives..as for stooping to return to work.That's a personal question only the people who were wronged can answer....but at a time like this we need all the help we can get to help our soldiers over their..Off Topic...my nephew just got back from Iraq..with a purple heart..he got peppered with shrapnel he's ok but the guy next to him didn't make it..hit by a rpg in a truck..he's 19......he's going back in feb.He has some hairy stories
The people making the suggestion are KILLERS and INVADERS.
Suddenly, they make sense to you .... WHY?
GET THE FUCK OUT ... why does sexual orientation trump that?
"I suggested that perhaps the State Department could address the problem by reaching out to some of the dozens of well-trained Arabic linguists the Pentagon threw out of the military for being gay.
Apparently, the idea is catching on."
I suggest that if gays are not good enough to serve in the military, then serving at the pleasure of the pampered and corrupt princes of the pentagon makes anyone who does so a house-homo at best.
Might as well sign up for the Log Cabin at the same time.
"Now be a good little second class citizen"
Semper Barf.
"We can expect this of them because they are Americans."
"Presumably for the same reason they signed up in the first place: for the betterment of their country."
That's convenient. People should feel beholden to American principles when it serves the country, but America needn't uphold such tenets in deciding who it employs.
Also, there's a pretty large presumption being made in that some see little choice other than to sign up, and you don't need to work for the government to better your country.
The opinions are admirable, though, and if you feel them so strongly--especially WRT this issue--I'd advise learning Arabic and enlisting. Seriously.
People!!
This idea has ALREADY BEEN EXPLORED! Recently declassified documents have revealed that there was a secret commission in 2003 that looked into this kind of arrangement.
The plan stumbled when the Gay Translators made very clear demands. Seems they felt they had every right to make a few requests before they "served" in Condoleeza Rice's state department. These were just a few of their requirements:
1. They insisted on the Green Zone being renamed the "Chartreuse Quarter." Not as drab and dour.
2. Insisted on security in the "Quarter" being handled by some of the colder bouncers from the better gay bars in New York.
3. Insisted that the Chartreuse Quarter be a Cheney Free Zone. Sorry. No Dick (or his wife Lon Cheney).
4. Miss Condoleeza was barred from ever wearing black patent leather "kinky boots." If she was going to support a gay-hatin' administration she could not benefit from gay cultural perks.
5. Insisted on daily Moisturizer regimen as necessity to service.
6. All Halliburton contracts rescinded and given over to Lesbian-owned construction firms.
7. Quarter was also muzac-free, instead opting for milli-beat dance music throughout facilities (insert bad Cher line here).
Talks broke down on the kinky boots request. Gay translators concluded the whole project would be better someplace else. Their final conclusion is the full pullout from Iraq and the (re)construction of the "Chartreuse Quarter" as a massive multi-billion dollar project to revive New Orleans.
It would, of course, still be a Cheney Free zone.
This "Good Idea" making the rounds as it were, and being pimped by a self proclaimed liberal too boot, helps to really underline my belief that America is a cultural and intellectual wasteland.
Even here on the "Good Side" we can see the same offensive double standards be paraded and dressed up, lipstick slapped on a pig, and then presented with a smile and a self-congratulatory pat on the back - without even ever touching on the fact that this coin being flipped has two heads.
This "Good Idea" is so offensive on so many levels, and the author doesn't even seem to have the foggiest notion of why that might be the case until we hit the very last paragraph, where the most superficial of reasons why this "Good Idea" sucks so completely is posed as a rather ambivelent question.
Here's a thought: Having been gay American who has been marginalized, humiliated and insulted by both sides so relentlessly, why should I or any other gay person give a damn about helping the American empire continue on their mindless, inhuman slog and assault on a country that never attacked us in the first place?
Why should anyone help this corrupt and soulless administration or it's weak willed pseudo-intellectual help-mates continue to propagate this false "war on terror"?
Here's an idea - how 'bout we let 'em back into the military, apologize to them, and drop the discrimination?
buschco gets antsy around gay guys talking in tongues.
ticktock @ 1:
I hope some would get together and do just that with many more consessions in addition to the long zeros.
Pete @ 20:
Okay. Step away from the edge there brother.
Seriously. The original idea guy here was stating a way of offering jobs to folks who have been discriminated from fulfilling a decision and commitment they made, descriminated because they were Gay.
Now, as a "gay American", as you put it, you may not like the idea of serving in the armed forces or even the idea of an "armed forces." We'd actually be in the same camp on this.
But that doesn't mean I don't support the right of a Gay or Lesbian person to have the right to make that choice and take that position and do that work if he or she, as an American citizen, chooses to do so. I hate this war in all its forms but I don't want to muddle the issues here. This is about pointing up the stupidity of a policy that discriminates based on a person's sexuality. That's wrong whether it refers to military service, being a librarian or a dishwasher. It's noxious and insulting to the ideals of the constitution.
Suggesting an idea that in effect would directly draw attention to the ludicrousness of the policy is not, IMHO, an "offensive double-standard." It's a clever way of educating people to the policy's idiocy *while* affording the possibility of involvement to those who would make such a choice.
Well, gotta say it's a good idea... The military does need translators badly... Of course, like most things coming out of this administration and D.C. in general??? A day late and a dollar short... As ideas goes..
And I gotta ask? Where was the sane and rational ideas and concepts before all this ridding of gay linguists happened? Now someone suddenly realizes 'Shit!! we actually need those people'... Riiight.. And if I was one of those folks who were railroaded just for who they are attracted to, and, who obviously cared a great deal about the military and the nation, ergo,their original career paths... I'd have to say, 'No, no fucking way after the ways and means in which this administration has purpetrated their mindless myopic witch hunts'... And for the last six years.. Screwed gays out of their marriage rights, used them as 'the' boogieman wedge issue to rally the 26 percent knockledraggers out to the polls ... At least once in 04. And now old Uncle Scam thinks he can make it all better with a weak ass 'I'm sorry an here's another job, please take it with our phony apologies and even phonier gratitude'... Nope, if I was gay and under that set of circumstances I would have already moved on in life...
Furthermore, I'd add, there just ain't enough money in the Pentagons budget to buy me back.... I'd say it's time for all the neocons who still have a vested interest in this trainwreck to crack open a 'abrabic to english for dummies' book or two.... Cause as long as we're insisting on maintaining this braindead war in Iraq and a totally inappropriate presence (under present circumstances) in the Mid-East in general, we do need translators... You fuckers ran off all or most of the gays who would do that for you..I'm sure there are a few holding on, hiding in the closet these policies force them into.. Who knows why or what their fate will be...
Unless you are part of the 'inner circle', being gay and working for Bush is pretty damned difficult philosophically as well as, as a day to day keeping a roof over ones head an paying bills practical matter... Of course the inner circles types? Well, they tend to get a pass on their sexuality.. Hell, sometimes, might even get a press pass and occasional sleepover depending on who wants a private 'interview' etc...
Basically, now? All you right wing fascist wannabes, you'll just have to carry your own water in this matter...Hope your happy.. Just another example of what these neocon policies have brought about... I.E. complications and problems for America... And that is undoubtedly the understatement of the century... But if I go on about what I really feel and use the language befitting my outrage or what I and millions of other people think is deserved.. That kind of commentary would just get deleted...
Short story on the repubs looking to find translators and hopeful the gays they ran off might be enticed back... Like an old card game from childhood... The answer from me to them...Go fish...
JD
I'm glad some else is making the rounds. I always accept free drinks.
If I were one of these linguists, I certainly wouldn't trust the same group to keep me safe in Iraq as fired them simply because they are gay. While it is a good idea, I wouldn't expect much more than a one-finger salute from the people who were fired.
Hey, help a biggot out.
how can we expect these men and women to do the administration a favor after the way they’ve been treated?
because they're patriots. they didn't join the military to make money, they joined to serve. serving your country, whether it be in the military or at the state department, is still honorable. remember, they're not serving gw bush...they're serving their country, and could quite possibly save the lives of the men and women in uniform.
They don't want Arabic speakers. As a Arabic speaker I know this first hand. A friend of mine who also speaks Arabic tried to get a State Department job and they rejected him. (We both have degrees in International Relations/Development and neither of us are of Arab decent so it is not an education or racist thing) And to top it off over ten percent of the State Department positions are vacant.
I say again They don't WANT Arabic speakers. Any questions?
I just finished a six year enlistment in the USN as a nuclear machinist mate. At least from my point of view and experience, I never saw anyone get kicked out of the navy for homosexuality. Maybe it was my field but we even had a couple of openly gay guys on our ship. That is not to say that no one was ever kicked out, far from it. The "don't ask, don't tell" was used by a lot of guys that just didn't want to stick it out. Usually these guys were shitbags so the command wanted to get rid of them anyway. I'm not saying that there are homophobes in the military, but I highly doubt the number of people getting kicked out for homosexuality are all actually gay. Should it be fixed? yeah but I'd rather them just pull us out already.
If you were dishonourably discharged from the military (for being yourself and being discriminated against), would you want to sign on the dotted line for further service in Iraq???? My response might have a lot of "f" words in it.
RancidVenison @ 19:
eh. You're misreading me, I'm not saying that by God they should do their duty as is their obligation. I mean--I think "why would they help this administration?" is kinda vindictive. We have to presume that this administration, despite the damage it's done, has not ruined America forever.
I don't mean that as insisting what their obligation should be, I just understand personal motivation.
Suck my slouvaki sounds the same in any language
Sounds to me like a pay raise, not a pay cut. It's a good idea, in any case.
YBNurmal @ 30:
most true, the current administration have F#$%ed up everything they have touched, worst admin and president in the USAs history.
Why now over four years since 'mission accomplished', 3500+ US mil deaths (plus 1000 contractors) would they want to do anything right.
"stupid is as stupid does" to quote Gump, Bushs presumed role model.
Firing gays from the military was an excellent start. Now we should build on that by firing the vast majority of heterosexuals there as well. Then perhaps we will have some money left over for a middle class tax cut or national health care or other uses. Now that the cold war is over, and the war on terror has been unmasked as a fraud, we can and should finally ween ourselves off war spending once and for all.
Anony @ 37:
Theres too many people making obscene amounts of money from selling arms and warfare, its sad but true.
QUESTION: Who owns the shares in the MIC companies?,
ANSWER: GOP voters.
how anxious would you be to take a pay cut in order to help these officials out?
WHAT PAY CUT??
Military pay is somewhere between Jack and Sh|t. A cushy job at the DOS interpreting would be a step UP in pay by an order of magnitude.
Did someone say Tom Lantos? This is the same Tom Lantos that is chortling over the Iran sanctions the DEMOCRATS passed recently? The same Tom Lantos that is paving the way to WW3 (or 4 depending on how you count such things)? Can we piss on Tom Lantos?
I'd recommend they either create their own contracting company or work a deal through Blackwater to sign them up so they can get paid 10x their military salary and still contribute to the situation all the while thumbing their noses at the ignorant bastards who would rather die or foment hatred of all troops there than serve next to a gay soldier.
Gay or not, who is stupid enuff to join this crussade of the stupid?
I give a certain latitude to gay people joining up because they need to hide their sexuality from the stupidiority.
People who are straight aren't "afraid" of gay people. Citation;
Pastor Ted.
The smart thing to do would be to hire the gays who are fluent in arabic languages to teach straights what they know in secret anti-terrist camps we could set up around the world. We could pay the gays whatever a senior CIA official salary is (about 3X the president's) plus offer the incentive of their own Afghan/Opium distributorship if they do exceptionally well.
And when Gay-trained speakers meet regular arabs and arab diplomats to discuss concerns, they will have instant, buddy-to-buddy rapport, as soon as they all realize that 'bush' means 'assh*le' in arabic, and vice-versa.
And to cement the rapport, the arabs can seduce the straight translators, as they always do, and have them spend the night in their tents. But then we'd have a bunch of arab-speaking gays again.
Gee, maybe there's no way to solve this problem.
I. Conoplastic nailed it. Going from the military to State would in all likelihood result in a big pay INCREASE, not a pay cut. A sensitive, skilled position like that would likely be GS-9 at the lowest, and that starts around $38k. Unless the linguists were all officers, it's unlikely they made anything approaching that, even with location adjustments and/or imminent danger pay.
If you're going to comment on this story, we should put the numbers in a better perspective. The Bagdhad Embassy may have 1,000 (or more) employees, but it probably has only about 200 State Dept foreign service officers. The rest are contractors and employees of other agencies, including DOD, FBI, USDA, etc., I'm sure. And even among the 200 State employees, a big percentage of them have jobs wholly contained wihtin the realm of running an American embassy -- payroll, office management, etc. Beyond that, there are probably several economics officers whose jobs solely revolve around liaising with Oxford-educated fluent English speakers in the Iraqi finance ministry and such. There are probably only a couple dozen political and press officers who might have "winning hearts and minds" in their job descriptions and would benefit from more functional language skills. So the fact that only 10 out of 50 are at least functional (and I would guess about half of the rest have basic to intermidiate), while not impressive, is not the end of the world.
Hiring more Arabic speakers is a good idea, but I doubt all of the gay former DOD employees have the necessary job skills other than language for these specific positions. Is a news report that reveals "only 10 out of 50 press officers serving in Bagdhad have ever worked with the media before!" any less flattering?
I'm gay and would never server this shit nation, why would I? It hates me. Moreover I would never be involved in supporting the Bush administration in any manner whatsoever.
Lastly, being gay in a place like that sort of guarantees loneliness and isolation. Who the hell wants that? They openly murder gays in Iraq, in case you didn't know, and I have more allegiance with them than I do to the US.
Which of the intelligence agencies (CIA, NSA, DIA) has offered them jobs - having complained that a lack of
trained Arabic translators has hampered the war on terror?
An honest estimate of how many American and Iraqi lives have been lost as a result
lacking linguistic capabilities would be informative!
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