Impeach him
By Steve Benen Wednesday Jun 27, 2007 7:08amBruce Fein, the associate deputy attorney general under Reagan, has apparently seen enough.
In grasping and exercising presidential powers, Cheney has dulled political accountability and concocted theories for evading the law and Constitution that would have embarrassed King George III. The most recent invention we know of is the vice president's insistence that an executive order governing the handling of classified information in the executive branch does not reach his office because he also serves as president of the Senate. In other words, the vice president is a unique legislative-executive creature standing above and beyond the Constitution. The House judiciary committee should commence an impeachment inquiry. As Alexander Hamilton advised in the Federalist Papers, an impeachable offense is a political crime against the nation. Cheney's multiple crimes against the Constitution clearly qualify. [...]
In the end, President Bush regularly is unable to explain or defend the policies of his own administration, and that is because the heavy intellectual labor has been performed in the office of the vice president. Cheney is impeachable for his overweening power and his sneering contempt of the Constitution and the rule of law.
With a 67-vote threshold in the Senate, impeachment is a long-shot, but Fein, a conservative Republican, makes a very compelling case.
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Well, then let's go for it! It's about time to grap one's self cojones, and do what is suppose to be done!
DON"T IMPEACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DON"T MAKE HIM A MARTYR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT IS WHAT THEY WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITMFA
If Cheney were trying to gain more power under King George III he would be locked in a dungeon or had the "off with his head" treatment. Cheney doesn't have to worry about that now though because our King George is either working with him or doesn't have the spine to put Cheney in his place.
Cheney and Bush have done more to wreck the republican party than the democrats could have done in a hundred years. Keep up the good work, Dick. What the republicans need is more and more negative publicity, right up to November 08.
Screw impeachment. Get him for treason and high crimes. Lock him up in Guantanamo as a enemy combatant. Dick hates the US and abhores its laws.
I've got an idea. The White House press corps should be directing their questions to Cheney's movements. Start asking questions about what is on his schedule for the day, who is he meeting etc. and if Snow is unable to answer the questions start having a daily press conference with Cheney's press secretary. If he is the one calling the shots, then his actions should be scrutinized. This move would serve two purposes-we could start keeping track of what is being done in the shadows and it would drive Bush crazy to realize how irrelevant he is.
"Cheney and Bush have done more to wreck the republican party than the democrats could have done in a hundred years."
Agreed, they are their own worst enemy, which is pretty typical of criminals.
If we're handing out impeachments, which are worthless in this political climate, we need to get all of Congress. Their complete disdain for the average American citizen is beyond disgusting.
Congress just need to grow a pair...
Sorry. The press is too busy covering Paris' release from jail. They have no time to look into the fact that the Vice President of the United States feels he is above the law and the Constitution.
Congress did do something last night, they voted to give themselves a big pay raise. Doesn't matter that their approval ratings are in the low twenties or teens, they think they have done a heck of a job.
Impeach, Try, Hang.
Impeach?
I wonder what that group of nice young men who hung Saddam are doing this weekend?
Seriously, let's execute Dick Cheney. It will send a message to other politicians about messin with the constitution.
impeachment will only come as satisfactory news if it is along with that which cites that the administration will be facing prison time, and/or the extreme likelihood of facing the hague for war crimes.
why now? why wait this long? we have known FOR YEARS that the administration was breaching our civil liberties, that they were illegally listening to our calls, that they were murdering and injuring innocent people and our military and increasing the threat of terrorism for the sake of lining their silk pockets with blood money- why wait until hundreds of thousands of innocent people are dead to start whispering impeachment? why is it that those who have called for it for the last several YEARS, for the very reason that is suddenly a legit one, have been called tinfoil hat extremists?
i'm with jay, at least in part. i don't think it will amount to anything. it will martyr them, part of their divide and conquer strategy. unless they would face serious prison time, i'm not in. too little too late. >:(
Hail to the Chimp @ 6:
Give him the Saddam treatment.
He has earned it.
Impeachment off the table = Let the bodies hit the floor
Why is Pelosi lagging behind the Republicans on this issue?
Cheney now is the issue. He has created what, in his delusional and criminal belief system, is a sham of a defense for violating laws and orders specific to the Executive Branch and refuses to comply with the ISS0. This government has gone rogue up to and until the point Cheney is made to account for his actions that have no basis in law under the Constitution. The silence of Bush simply means that he acquiesces to anything Cheney does. Cheney has had the entire White House communications system under constant surveillance since 2000 and literally redirected specific meetings when he heard they were going to take place within the Executive Branch. Congress must stand up to this evil derelict who has yet to answer for his very questionable comments to Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta on 911 as an object was headed for the Pentagon and he very directly gave orders not to shoot it down. Cheney may not be Darth Vader, but he does not serve any of the interests of the American people, the government or the Executive Branch. So now, according to the doctrine of Cheney, he is no longer part of the Executive Branch. He needs to stand trial and be removed along with Bush. Bruce Fein is a very smart even tempered man, he would never make comments such as this unless he felt that these were crimes against the nation that are indeed grave.
they are traitors to this country and the ideals it is supposed to stand for. war crimes. treason. impeach? fine. as long as it leads to trial.
Coulter's hate by John Aravosis (DC)
The woman should be in prison. Has the Secret Service investigated Coulter yet for wishing John Edwards assassinated? Oh that's right, George Bush's Secret Service only investigates liberals, while conservative man-whores are given free rein of the White House without even getting the basic background checks required of other frequent White House visitors. Why should we expect the Secret Service to investigate death threats against a Democratic presidential candidate? That would require them to do their job in an impartial manner. Just like they didn't care when Pat Robertson suggested that terrorists nuke the State Department. It's not their job to care, it's their job to protect Republicans. More from AP.
There's something dark and evil at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
It knows no boundary for corruption and power.
Driven by an appetite that can never be satisfied,
leaves the people with no choice but to have it removed.
Cheney WILL rot in hell.
i disagree skyreader- they've done more to wreck the entire country, not just their party.
and as for their negative publicity- they do that to themselves anyway. it's too bad the 28%ers roll in it like pigs in slop.
bush and cheney have brought this country to its busted up knees. they have made kidnapping and torture an american way. they have turned environmentalism to a strawman. they have made war for profit an executive right. they have made breaching american rights to privacy plausible. they have made habeas corpus irrelevant. they have made the bill of rights homologous with toilet paper. they have in essence made america the thorn in the world's side.
and for 7 years, we have allowed it to happen by ignoring calls for impeachment.
the ONLY acceptable punishment, the only way we as a country can possibly redeem ourselves, the only way we can restore this land and put an end to further fanaticism and power grabbing and war embarking is to put these murderous cretins, every last one of them, before international courts.
Actually, the threshold for impeachment is a majority vote of the House. The Senate has to vote to remove from office, it's not clear whether that can be filibustered.
You would think that an indescression like this would be one that wouldn't make a difference is someone is a democrat or republican. It should be a vote of 100 to zero, in favor of impeachment for the crook. And let's presume Cheney never did ANYTHING else wrong, ever... and he was beloved by all... this ALONE is worth impeachment...
Bush Won't Supply Subpoenaed Documents
TERENCE HUNT | June 28, 2007 10:14 AM EST |
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WASHINGTON — President Bush, moving toward a constitutional showdown with Congress, asserted executive privilege Thursday and rejected lawmakers' demands for documents that could shed light on the firings of federal prosecutors.
Bush's attorney told Congress the White House would not turn over subpoenaed documents for former presidential counsel Harriet Miers and former political director Sara Taylor.
In reaction, Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy accused the administration of shifting "into Nixonian stonewalling" and revealing "disdain for our system of checks and balances."
"With respect, it is with much regret that we are forced down this unfortunate path which we sought to avoid by finding grounds for mutual accommodation," White House counsel Fred Fielding said in a letter to Leahy and the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee. "We had hoped this matter could conclude with your committees receiving information in lieu of having to invoke executive privilege. Instead, we are at this conclusion."
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Thursday was the deadline for surrendering the documents. The White House also made clear that Miers and Taylor would not testify next month, as directed by the subpoenas, which were issued June 13. The stalemate could end up with House and Senate contempt citations and a battle in federal court over separation of powers.
Notice how the DoJ scandal is now off the radar??? Nothing truly happened with that and nothing will happen with this latest scandal..... Congress doesn't have the balls to do what is necessary and neither do the people at large.
regardless of whether this thing has a chance of passing or not, we're only left to wonder why a conservative would be speaking out loudly and clearly for impeachment and the dems in leadership roles sit on their collective arses. if they at least made the effort though it be a losing effort, it would give their constituency a definite pride that they made the effort. and who is to say that this would not just be the first step. a second effort would keep that ball rolling rather than sweeping this under the rug as well.
Don't stop with Dick.
President Pelosi NOW!!!!!!!!
Is the only recourse articles of impeachment?
Cheney was rumored a long time ago to be stepping down due to health.
If the Republicans would gang up on Cheney and oust him, that will greatly help their party and hurt the Dems for not having the whatevers to do it first.
Enjoy the show!
Impeachment or not, can't the Democrats do a lot more than they are now?
Cheney's claim that he is not really part of the administration for legal purposes, for instance, deserves a subpoena and hearings all on its own.
Think about it - he claims he is part of the Senate, and is therefore exempt from executive disclosure of classified documents. The logical thing to do is to march his ass into the Senate Judiciary Committee and have him explain himself. I mean, the Senate is the body he claims to be part of, so how could he object?
Get the SOB on the record, and when the bastard is under oath, ask him what he does with his docs and who he meets with. If he refuses on the basis of executive privelege - the standard excuse he and Bush have used for years - and yet still claims Senate status as cover for his actions, charge him with contempt of Congress.
Impeachment is the answer. Impeach. Impeach. Impeach. As far as the silly comment that "that's what they want us to do." Who gives a damn? I'm sick and tired of Democrats deciding to do things based on what the Republicans want or do not want us to do. Show some balls, have some strength, and do the YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY to remove from office ALL those who have committed high crimes and misdemeanors! As was pointed out above, 67% in the senate is not the point. Even if this troll is allowed to stay in office, at least history will remember that this congress did it's duty to impeach an out-of-control criminal from running roughshod over our country. Maybe the next tin-horn dictator will think twice before telling america to go fuck itself.
pinhead @ 22:
I agree with pinhead... Impeach Cheney now and if it leads to Bush in the investigation so be it!
We hear the argument repeatedly that there is not enough time and the Bush administration will simply run out the clock because proceedings will take too long.
However this evades the real question... Can we allow the precedents that this criminal administration has set stand unchallenged and open the door to similar abuse by future administrations?
The answer to this must be a resounding NO! If we are to continue on as a Republic, Bush and Cheney must stand trial for the crimes that they have committed, the least of which is the NSA wire tap programs that clearly violated the FISA laws. This must also include the Attorney General for his direct participation in breaking the law as was disclosed recently in the Washington Post articles on Cheney.
Further... because of Gonzales' direct participation with Cheney and Addington, the Justice Department must be recused from any investigation. It is time for a Special Independent Prosecutor to be named... in fact it is long over due.
We must also realize that Bush, Cheney, and Gonzales are not the only ones that are on trial... In the eyes of the world, we the people of the United States are on trial!
There are multiple warrants out for CIA operatives in Italy and Germany for breaking their laws regarding kidnappings and extraordinary renditions because the US personnel showed contempt for their laws as well as our own.
The recent international polls show that the majority of foreign nations trust russian strong man Vladimir Putin more than they trust George Bush and with good reason. In the run up to the war the case was made that Iraq had mobile weapons labs and wmd based on the interrogation of one man... "curveball" whose handlers were members of Germany's intelligence services.
They went public and revealed that they had told the US intelligence services repeatedly that "curveball" was unstable psychologically, an alcoholic, that nothing that he said could be verified and that the US should not treat any of this as hard intelligence. Yet Bush used it in his SOTU address and Powell used it in his UN address. They knew, as all of our allies did that the war in Iraq was based on a lie. As numerous former Nuremburg Justices have publicly stated... the US invasion of Iraq was a war crime and based on the subsequent revelations regarding torture by the US our leaders are war criminals!
This is what we are on trial for... this is what Bush and Cheney have made our image into in the eyes of the world.
If we do not take legal action against this administration we will be seen as being complicit in their crimes, as surely as someone who helps a murderer dispose of the body after the fact... in the eyes of the world we will be willing accomplices.
In fighting against those enemies of the US, its necessary to have allies and cooperation of intelligence services... who will want ot help us defend ourselves if we allow Bush and Cheney's crimes to go unchallenged? America will not be safer if we don't and our influence in the world will continue to diminish as nations form new alliances to stand against our unprecedented unilateralism and arrogance.
We must impeach to find out more.
If you suspect foul play, or criminal activity, or incompetence, you don't decide before you have a trial whether you will be successful. Impeachment isn't about JUST throwing someone out of office -- it can also clear their name as it did with Bill Clinton (exonerated on all counts).
Here is another reason to impeach -- how about the big Smoking Gun?
http://www.digg.com/world_news/Norman_Mineta_Confirms_That_Dick_Cheney_O...
Norm Mineta is this man; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_Mineta
Famous for ordering Monte Belger at the FAA: "Monte, bring all the planes down."
Who is Monte Belger? http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=monty_belger
WASHINGTON - At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording that day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said today.http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/9/4392
Lynne Cheney, big honcho at Lockheed has rewarded Belger now;
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=11580&rsbci=0&f...
most of the atrocious failures of this administration can clearly be traced to cheney's influence.
in every case where a choice was presented between the good of thre nation or the good of other interests, the nation has gotten the short end of the stick from this man.
the process of impeachment was conceived of to dal with just such as an atrocity as mr. cheney.
do it and do it now.
Why is anyone still thinking that something can be done to hold these criminals to account? The Democrats won't even try and if they did, it would wind up in the courts and the federal courts and the supreme court is so corrupted that they also need to be impeached. Face it - America is just screwed.
iburl @ 32:
>> Good point.
And it is not beyond reason that someone let's it slip that they want you to impeach when they don't want you to impeach. We've seen plenty of document leaks from Rove and Cheney and even Rumsfeld that "make them look good."
Remember -- I think in 2005, when some aide of Rumsfeld accidentally left important documents (I think at a restaurant frequented by Dems), that discussed Rumsfeld's misgivings about the Iraq invasion? Later that Aide was promoted.
We've got to quit second-guessing things on whether we will win, or if it is strategic or based upon what will or won't be convenient for a NeoCon. The Democrats have to do the RIGHT thing, and forget about strategy. The American public wants sincere action.
No. No one is going to want to stand with Cheney. It would be political suicide, and they all mostly know that. Cheney is as good as gone.
Bluesage @ 36:
Simply put... it is up to us to demand from our representative in Congress and and if necessary to meet on the steps of the Supreme Court to demand justice and that these criminals be held to account for their crimes!
To simple sit back and whine that we can't do anything is to be an enabler and an accomplice to their crimes. Not to take a stand against tyranny is to support it!
cervantes @ 23:
Since the Chief Justice of the United States presides over the Senate part of the impeachment, I would think filibustering wouldn't be allowed. But with a reich-winger like Roberts, who knows?
Rasputin - I've been on the front lines willing to put myself out on the street since the early 60's for civil rights, human rights, the Vietnam war, the Kent State shootings and this is the first time ever that I have felt that we have no voice. I write letters, I e-mail, I marched against this latest atrocity of Iraq and we are ignored so please don't call me a whiner. My Democrat party has abandoned us - at least most of them. What are we to do? I'm willing to put myself out there again and do whatever it takes but who is going to get out there with me? We will have to destroy every damn television in America to get anyone's attention. It is becoming harder and harder to believe that anyone really gives a crap if it means leaving their keyboard or their television.
What effect would formal impeachment proceedings have if Bush steps down ? In that event, what other legal steps could be taken to block Cheney from declaring himself President for life ?
I've ranted on this in detail multiple times, just do it... Impeach Bush, Cheney, Gonzales at the very least... There are many others in this administration who merit criminal indictments. Stop dicking around Congress and just do it!!! Win or lose the attempt has to be made for the good of everything this nation ever purported to stand for...
Rasputin @33 layed it all out in detail, yet again... Many have laid it all out in detail many many times... I said it yesterday and it remains just as true today. The world IS watching, and we will ruin any chance at redemption in anyone breathing todays lifetime if we let these bastards get away with what they have purpetrated on this nation and the world these last seven plus years...
Oh and Jay? A bullet in the head, as well deserved as that might be would make Cheney a martyr.... And this nation difinitely does not need that sort of crap. Impeaching his punk ass would hold him accountable to the same laws and rules as the rest of us. That is as it should be... I do not favor murder even if a case can be made that it is deserved in this situation... I do favor impeachment, removal from office and rendition to the Hague to stand trial for crimes against the United States, nations of the mid-east, Iraq specifically and overall crimes against humanity...
So, yea, Congress grow a pair or whatever you need to do and get this done. We have already wasted more time on these cretins than they were ever worth. And their continueing acts of international criminality continues to mar our international reputation every minute of every day..............JD
I'm all for impeaching both Cheney and the Chimp. However, our own Democratic party doesn't have the balls to bring this forward, so it's all empty rhetoric right now.
Don't act as if politics are the sole determining factor in Washington.
An impeachment will help the republicans.
The media, which is controlled by the repubs, will rewrite this and turn it into:
"Democrats savagely attack warrior president as he courageously stands his ground"
Look at how they paid massive respect to "tha' gipper". they idolize him as an honorable man even though his administration oversaw some of the worst breaches of ethics in presidential history.
We have already seen that for some reason or another, this president gets ratings boosts when he is on the defensive.
If Bush serves out his term, his failure will clearly show through.
I want to see him gone, but I would rather a Democratic candidate win the whitehouse in 2008.
that way, things can kinda get fixed.
instead of impeachment, make the president irrelevant. use the purse strings.
Don't give him funding for anything.
investigate the investigations of the investigations of the investigation.
Make him drown in his own sewage. make his party so visibly ashamed of him that they dare not speak his name for 100 years. Ruin his family name. Make his father weep with disgust.put him in the Pantheon of political no-no names like Mondale, Nixon, Goldwater, Warren G. Harding (worst ever)
Rasputin @ 33:
I could not agree more!
This sums it up.
Dick Cheney takes over USAF base. Launches nuclear strike
http://smartstartup.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/06/dick-cheney-tak.html
Cut off 100% of Cheney's funding until he decides what he is (executive? legislative?) and until he complies with every request for records he has ever been issued.
Don't impeach him. Keep him in office, but defund him. Keep him in the public view, like a bug in a jar, until the 2008 elections. Use him as a campaign boogeyman, the way the Bushies have used Saddam/Osama. The campaign message "We must rid our democracy of out-of-control neocons like Dick Cheney, who laughs at the notion of real liberty, real justice and real democracy. Dick Cheney believes you should lose your rights as an American citizen because foreigners flew planes into American buildings. Did you fly a plane into the WTC or the Pentagon? No? Then why are you being treated by Dick Cheney as if you did? Cheney is punishing all Americans for the sins of a few Americans who did not heed the warnings of an upcoming terrorist attack."
I think it's pretty clear that the VP violated his oath of office to defend the Constitution.That being said,It's time for impeahment proceedings to begin.As for the Supreme Court,That's one of the first things they did................................Stack the deck...so they can't lose..but we can and should try...
Cheney is undoubtedly the cause of all sorrow.
Bluesage @ 41:
I understand your angst and I was there in the 60's protest myself. Most of the members of congress when I call or write now groan "oh shit its him again" I'm sure. I'm even doing viral videos on the campaigns and issues and posting on numerous bloggs.
While I share your angst, for me the ideals and principles embodied in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are too important to stop defending. For me quiting is not an option. I spent the better part of the last 20 years living and working outside of this country and believe me when I say... this Republic is worth fighting for.
Let's look at the other players in this drama who are also part of the new fourth branch of government. Is not the President part of it, too? After all, the legislative branch cannot pass laws withouth his/her signature? And the President can veto legislation, so she/he in reality acts as a legislator. A veto or a signature is like a vote, and is not voting what the legislators do? So yes, sign up the President for membership in the new fourth branch.
How about the courts? Well, judicial review allows courts to strike down laws as unconstitutional. In my view, that is a pretty powerful vote in Congress. In fact, the entire act of interpreting the law is a legislative function, so I am not even sure there should be a judicial branch. In any case, sign them up for the fourth branch because it is clear that they are a quasi in every respect.
Well, there you have it. The entire executive branch and the entire judicial branch are actually part of the unique fourth branch, and they are accountable to nobody. Not just Cheney.
[note to cheney: your role in the senate is a "check" in the "checks and balances" system. it is not a declaration of some unique new branch of government. learn this. and then apologize for doing nothing to prevent 9-11 even though it was your job. and then resign. and then go fuck yourself.]
Bluesage,
I feel your pain. I don't know if impeachment will happen. I do know this however. I live in the reddest of states, Texas. Many people I talk to were very pro Bush/Cheney 4 years ago. Now many these same people are changing their tune. Not all of them, but a lot. So I keep pounding them with my on talking points. This why I think the republicans have damaged themselves maybe to the point of no return. I think we have to go one on one to swing the public back, making them realize that Bush/Cheney republicans are not in their best interests. Writing one of my senators like John Cornyn would do no good. He as bad as Bush/Cheney. Maybe Texas will go red next election, but the tide is turning.
Rasputin - I will never give up on my country. I too believe that our Constitution and Bill of Rights is worth fighting for but I am also a realist and Bush & Cheney will be there untouched until Jan. 2009. Maybe then, unless another election is manipulated and stolen and we hear a collective HO-HUM from our Democrats, we can begin to repair and rebuild all that we have lost. I have lost a great deal of faith in the American people because they have obviously come to the conclusion over the last 40 years that our democracy neither demands or deserves our participation. If you were also there in the 60's and 70's when we actually took to the streets and made ourselves heard then you too much be feeling a little angst at the present apathy of not only the people but our representatives.
it's time to take cheney hunting...........oops ! lol
Skyreader7 - I too talk to people every day and I do sense that many are awakening to the horror of this administration. I do believe that we can repair and rebuild all that has been lost but I do not believe that this will happen as long as Bush/Cheney are in office or the present crop of Democrats keep their seats in Congress. We need real representation of the people and much less representation of corporations and personal agendas.
However, that 67 vote threshold to convict in the Senate does not prevent the House from passing articles of impeachment. I think that open, televised impeachment hearings that revealed more of his misdeeds and disdain for Americans and democracy would create so much public support for Cheney's removal that articles of impeachment would be supported by not only the Dems but a fair number of Repub Representatives fearful of losing their jobs. Likewise, at least a handful of Republican Senators would feel compelled to vote for conviction or lose their seats in the next election. I think 60 votes for conviction is a real, if outside, possibility (55-57 likely, in my view), and that much condemnation of Cheney would go a long way towards forcing still other Republican Senators and Reps to stand in the way of the Bush-Cheney assholery for the remainder of this nightmare. It's truly a no-lose situation, because the worst possible outcome is fewer votes for far-right Repubs in the next election.
What I think every career minded politician of either side of the isle ought to be thinking about is that if power goes unchecked, then one day the other side of the isle is going to have unchecked power. How hard is that to sell to the GOP, that one day an Al Gore will have this kind of unchecked power? That should have any politician shaking in their boots, no offense to Gore, I don't want ANY one to have this kind of power. One word-democracy.
WRONG!
"With a 67-vote threshold in the Senate, impeachment is a long-shot..." WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
Impeachment is NOT a long-shot, as it originates in the House of Representatives! Rep. Dennis Kucinich has already filed articles of impeachment against Cheney. Removal from office (conviction in the Senate) is a long-shot. Get it right people!
DA
The people who are making impeachment seem like a monumental task are doing us all a disservice. The fact is it's easier to impeach than to get a veto override through. Especially when the person you are impeaching pretty much admits his guilt on live Tv.
Rasputin @ 33:
Doesn't matter if it does. You can still be impeached AFTER you're out of office though the only penalty they can apply then is that you can never again hold office in the USGov. Whether or not you're impeached you're still potentially liable for criminal prosecution after your administration is over.
But the fact remains that the only reason NOT to impeach is for Dems to save their own asses. That's not serving the people, that's serving themselves.
As far as getting articles out of the house, not even all the Dems need to be awake for that. A simple majority ( 50%) is all that's required to get past the house.
In the Senate it's slightly more difficult. The Dems need another 17 votes.
Ok, no biggie. In 10 minutes of research I pulled up 12 Republicans who are either at odds with Bush, have voted & spoke out against Bush policy, are RINO's or are Class II Senators up for re-election in 2009. All the Dems need to do is lean on these weak links and they'll get the votes they need. Hell take 'em out to dinner and chat with them. Explain to them that if they don't vote to impeach, Republicans aren't going to be getting into office for the next 30 years because they'll all be seen as Bushies. Even if they can't see doing their duty to their constituents, self interest will probably sway them.
If I can come up with this many names in 10 minutes, a paid Democratic strategist can do a hell of a lot better. They'd only need 5 more , or 4 more and the independents.
1. Chuck Hagel ( R-NE ) - Do I really need to say why? He's one of Bush's most vocal opponents. Up for re-election in 2009
2. Arlen Specter ( R-KS) - Up for re-election in 2011
3. Olympia Snowe( R-Mn) - up for re-election in 2013
4. John Warner( R-VA ) - Up for re-election in 2009, pro-choice, FOR stem cell research, wants to include sexual orientation in hate crime laws. Has publicly broken with Bush on more than one occasion.
5. Mel Martineze (R-Fl), up for election in 2011.
6. Charles Grassley (R-Io), Up for re-election in 2011, advocates whistleblowers, voted against first gulf war, Freemason
7. Susan Collins ( R-Me) - moderate, up for re-eclection in 2009
8. Norm Coleman (R-Mn) - Up for election in 2009, flip flopped from anti-war liberal dem to Conservative Rep. Anti-Gay rights, Anti abortion. Supported Karl Rove. Opposed Surge.
9. Lisa Murkowski ( R-Ak) - "Opposes bush and not affraid to say so.", re-election in 2011. Voted against nuclear option. Mixed on abortion but is pro-choice. Supports stem cell research.
10. George Voinovich (R-Oh) - said "You are not listening". Up for election in 2011. Votes with Dems on taxes. Voted aaginst marriage penalty releif. Went against Bush's tax cuts. Supports gun control, Voted aaginst confirmation of John Bolton. called a RINO on many occasions
11. Bob Corker ( R-Tn ) - Pissed off about war. Re-election in 2013. some shady real estate deals.
12. Frank R. Wolf ( R-Va) - Introduced his own resolution of dissaproval of the Bush admin. Help create the Iraq study group. Criticizes china for human rights violations.
"The House judiciary committee should commence an impeachment inquiry. As Alexander Hamilton advised in the Federalist Papers, an impeachable offense is a political crime against the nation."
Right. Like a blowjob in the Oval Office.
the Senate just needs to grit it's teeth and impeach the chimp and penguin.
Cantor de Mambo @ 61:
Funny thing is once a blow job was what they called a new job for a safe cracker.
GREAT. We need conservative Republicans to sound the call for impeachment. I can see the ultimate coup d'etat. Republicans(except for Lieberman) call for impeachment, showing they have the cajones the Democrats ABSOLUTELY lack. They cash in on America's hatred of King George by removing him or attempting to remove him(Lieberman might filibuster like Thurmond did). Fred Thompson gets elected and pardons anyone hurt in the impeachment(and an extra for Libby).
I can't believe the Democrats are so absolutely worthless. We hired them to weed out corruption and get us out of Iraq, but ALL they do is cave to King George. And now that THEY are being lobbied, there will be no reform. Heck with em all. Elect a frickin chimpanzee if you want better results. At least some sh!t will get flung in the chambers...
David Alden @ 59:
It doesn't matter whether the Dems can pull enough votes in the Senate or not and here is why...
In the case of the NSA Wire tapping and FISA violations you are talking about having the Congress investigate a crime. As Jonathan Turley, the consitutional law scholar pointed out on KO last night, if congress simply names this as a "criminal investigation" then Bush and Cheney can no longer claim Executive priviledge and must surrender all requested documents and testify under oath!
As Professor Turley and Former White House council John Dean have said repeatedly, the FISA violations by Bush, Cheney, and Attorney General Gonzales are indeed prima fascia criminal acts.
If the Dems vote for Impeachment in the House, the Senate must have a hearing and there must be an investigation with the appointment of a Independant Special Prosecutor. The Special Prosecutor's subpoenas can not be turned down by the White House, Nixon fought this one all the way to the Supreme Court and lost!
Who cares if they are removed from office by impeachment, the process in congress does not stop criminal proceedings. By simply naming one of the articles of impeachment as an investigation into a crime, Bush and Cheney lose all immunity under "Executive Priviledge" and must comply with Congressional demands and the Special Prosecutors subpoenas.
This is why it is totally irrelevant if the impeachment proceedings succeed or not, simply trying... will bring them down. Let Bush, Cheney, and Gonzales try to lead from a jail cell!
OK, here's my tin-foil-hat theory:
Cheney is deliberately pushing the envelope on constitutionality in hopes that he IS impeached. Then, he can claim that the "stress" of the whole procedure is too much for his heart (aawwww, poor baby!) and thus resigns. His choice for his replacement is then seen as the "clean" one in the administration, makes some nominal changes (say, replacing Gonzo) and thus becomes the leading candidate for President. After all, he "cleaned up" the Bush Administration! Republicans rally behind him, and he wins the Presidency in a squeaker. Thus, Cheney again has his man in the White House.
How crazy am I? Anyone else wonder about this scenario?
A little too late for all this bullshit.
Yet the press is still completely detached.
They'd rather sit around and have "serious" discussions about the intricacies of constitutional law,and how Cheney and Bush may or may not be acting within the proper frame work set out by laws written,unwritten,enacted,interpreted,
misinterpreted...blah blah blah.It takes a seriously "creative" mind not to recognize how abusive this pair have become towards democracy.
How much more nonsense can possibly be ignored?
Impeach and imprison Cheney, Bush, Rove, and Gonzo. IT'S THE ONLY WAY that America can begin to heal. THE. ONLY. WAY.
We can always hope that Bush and Cheney will go duck hunting together.
He should not be impeached.
He should be tried in a criminal court under American and International law for war crimes.
I want to see Cheney giving testimony, lying and taking the fifth, like the criminal gangster that he is. I hope that black heart of his explodes publicly while on trial.
You have to impeach THE PRESIDENT....not that simpleton Bush!
Do you honestly think THE MAN IN CHARGE CARES ABOUT ANY OF THIS????
Boy, a subpoena will just scare the heck out of someone WHO SHOT SOMEBODY IN THE FACE, AND THEN DECIDED TO NOT TALK TO THE COPS ABOUT IT!!!!!!
The Congress does not have the political will or the moral courage to stop the man in charge.
impeach gonzales!!!
I wonder if someone could float the idea in the conservative media that impeachment would actually benefit the Republican party(especially since hate-radio is so all fired up about Bush's stance on the undocumented). If the Republican members of the House and Senate beleived they could survive and benefit from impeaching them both...they would vote to do so. They are all interested in keeping up their own shenanigans...just a thought.
The severity of their massive crimes against every citizen in this country has been accomplished by stealing en masse a government by law, by a constitution once held in high esteem by the world at large. This is such a monstrous law that an extreme penalty is required. Both Bush and Chaney deserve impeachment, an exceedingly large fine and imprisonment. In the future, no one, either the President or the Vice-President, should think any man is above the law. If the Democrats cannot see the severity of these times, we, then, need a third party to lead the charge to reclaim our country.
Every citizens has much to do to help reclaim what was once wonderful, the light of the world.
Normally I'm all for impeachment of Bush and Cheney, as I have been for the last seven years.
However, now I'm thinking that perhaps the vice president is a secret weapon that can be used against the Republicans. We don't need him gone -- we need him as the Republican presidential candidate in 2007. If anything will wake up the swing voters to the depravity of the GOP, it's Dick "Go Fuck Yourself (and your little country, too)" Cheney.
Matt in Texas @ 66:
pinhead @ 15:
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