Mitt Romney Sez Hezbollah Style Diplomacy Would Be Good For America
By Logan Murphy Tuesday Jul 31, 2007 11:02am
No, really...he did. Last weekend Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney held a town hall meeting in Ottumwa, Iowa. One of the members of the audience asked him if he would commit the money necessary to continue President Bush's AIDS program in Africa as a way to restore good will toward America. His answer, while not picked up on by the members of the audience, absolutely floored me. He started out by agreeing with the premise of the question, touting America's health care system -- then he dropped this little nugget:
Download | play 
Download | play (thanks to Scarce for the video)
Romney: ..."Did you notice in Lebanon, what Hezbollah did? Lebanon became a democracy some time ago and while their government was getting underway, Hezbollah went into southern Lebanon and provided health clinics to some of the people there, and schools. And they built their support there by having done so. That kind of diplomacy is something that would help America become stronger around the world and help people understand that our interest is an interest towards modernity and goodness and freedom for all people in the world. And so, I want to see America carry out that kind of health diplomacy..."
Somebody needs to get his talking points in order before they let him speak in public. What Hezbollah did was essentially provide UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE for the people of southern Lebanon, something Romney has vigorously opposed for you and I here in America. I hate to tell you this Mitt, but I don't think the rest of your party agrees with your glowing review of Hezbollah.
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:lol:
man he dumb
Worst...Analogy....Ever.
Mitt ... unfiltered, unshackled, unbound ...
Seriously, who are the numb nuts that actually supports this twit?
Freakin Himbo..
Ann Coulter. 'Nuff said.
Well Mitt did come up with affordable state sponsored health care in Massachusetts when he was governor...
...but yeah, what a stupid fucking example. Why didn't he just tout what he did as governor instead? Dumbass just put the nail in the coffin of his campaign.
agreed all around that he's bloody idiot, and that the analogy sucks, but i can't help but agree that some "health diplomacy" would be a welcome foreign policy shift from where we are now.
Geez, first Obama wants to bomb Pakistan, and now this.
And Hilary wants to nuke Iran, and Edwards is making money hand-over-fist off of hedge funds while simultaneously talking about the "two Americas". And Giuliani? Where to start?
Makes you even more excited about the 2008 election, don't it?
This guy makes me sick to watch and listen to. He's just another in an endless string of empty, wealthy bullshitters, and when he speaks, you better listen to him carefully.
A caller to PBS asked him what his national healthcare plan would be. He said that he absolutely supports a national healthcare insurance plan for everybody, one they can take from job to job.
In other words, Romney wants insurance for all. Big f* deal. This keeps the army of insurance workers in their jobs, and keeps on screwing the rest of us. This keeps the army of insurance people who handle the phones dictating what doctors can do with their patients.
He's just another talking SICKO.
Not that I agree witht the example but he is speaking the truth at least, that is one of the many ways Hezbolla gain the support of the local population and why they were voted in. They provided medical, food, schooling and other basic social needs to people in need.
So basically Mitt is only willing to give health care for free only if it benefits America-- but he won't provide free health care for Americans.
Who'd a believed George W Bush would have become President.
Beat Gore no less?
Imagine if America was cool to the people inside is borders and not just the corporations.
oh wait, I forgot, the supreme court said corporations are people too..
In other news, Chistopher Shays has dismissed Abu Ghraib once again, saying that we should never have aired-out our 'dirty laundry' while the war in Iraq raged on. This was in the pat Tillman hearing in the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform today.
I don't get it. What's wrong with building health clinics? Does he want them to be mormon-conversion-kiosks or something?
"I'm Mitt Romney and I support terrorist provided Universal Health Care".
L.A. Confidential @ 14:
"Beat"?
dubyah 50,460,110
Mr. Gore 51,003,926
I have never been to Iowa. Is it predominately white, fat, and old?
Dr. Matt @ 19:
Winning is everything right?
Mitt has learned that treating people abroad with humanity is a great way to win friends and influence people. What a revelation. Ironically, it only took a radical Islamic group to show him the way.
My my, what a freaking plastic tool.
What was he thinking???
I mean, does he really think that giving humanitarian aid to people who are suffering is a GOOD THING?!?!
For the Love of God, Hezbollah did something similar,
It logically follows that Mitt is validating, nay, ENDORSING, Hezbollah!!!
Bad example, but correct in principle. This is what we should have done in the "war on terror." Instead of invading Iraq, we should have invested a tiny fraction of that TRILLION dollars into helping Afghanistan to become the jewel of Central Asia. That, more than further invasions, would have put democracy on the move.
Universal Health Care for the Fatwa
Could he be as dumb as Booosh?
obama just another fuckling war monger! screw romney too!
Pretty funny, especially for dog lovers...
http://www.youtube.com/...
Is this good Karl Rove's lovechild, or Mitt Romney's stalker?
http://www.youtube.com/...
Turning Romney's words against him
http://www.youtube.com/...
This poster, 'entreprenosis', is a real psycho, defender of Romney's
http://www.youtube.com/...
Visit these sites, get a laugh at Mittsy's expense and annoy the shit out of his supporters!
Well, to be fair, he failed to mention that Hezbollah kicked Israel's ass.
Calhouba @ 9:
I have no problem helping those less fortunate...but let's start with the less fortunate in THIS country! You can't seriously expect to take people's tax dollars to give universal healthcare for other countries and then tell your 47 million uninsured back home to go fuck themselves when they need healthcare!!!
WTF @ 12:
Funny really, this is the exact reason why Hamas is so strong in the palestinian areas, Gaza and the West bank. They supply free hospitals.
So with Mitt's sytem, Americans in need of health care who don't have their own health insurance coverage will have to travel to a country the US is trying to "democratize" & get some of the free health care the US will be giving them.
The FRAUD strikes again.
He's almost as good as bush for his verbal vomit.
In this case, charity begins at home. Why build health clinics and schools abroad, and suck the life out of the schools and hospitals here? You mean there's *gasp* a role for big government programs...in Lebanon? Oh, never mind. No doubt private companies would be building those hospitals and schools over there, too, and then we can screw over brand new populations with greedy corporations doing our humanitarian work, just like Halliburton. THAT sure worked out well, didn't it? Blackwater and Halliburton were faaan-tastic emissaries of goodwill.
boozemop @ 30:
To be fair, if Israel hadn't been fighting a politically correct war, rather than the force they used in 1967 and 1973, Lebanon would look like Japan in 1945 and what was left of Hezbollah would be hiding in Paraguay.
After Mitt and the candidates establish the "good will" plan,
they should establish the "peace and liberty" plan for the United States of America.
Maybe a good place to start is to talk to some advisors in Norway or New Zealand...
http://visionofhumanity.com/rankings/
Just please stay away from those inter-connected war profiteering US web of
think tanks that got us into this mess in the first place.. ( under the guise of ... )
The Common Link --> DICK CHENEY
http://thinkprogress.org/the-architects-where-are-they-now/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2007/01/our-countrys-tough-guys-and-t...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_Strategy_Group
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Aspen_Institute_/_Aspen_Strat...
All in the family... Condalezza and Philip Zelikow....
http://hnn.us/articles/5280.html
I'm surprised by the knee-jerk reaction to this. Romney actually makes a valid point. How do you impress yourself upon people; how do you make them side with you; feel indebted to you? Is it by bombing them? no (though I'm sure Romney's happy to do that). Is it by torturing them? no (though Romney's in support of that too).
Hezbollah is just one of many organizations that are deemed "terrorist" that make strong roots in their communities by providing the health care, the food, the clothes, the base necessities of existence that others, too busy bombing them and enacting economic sanctions that hit the neediest hardest, don't provide.
If we want our public standing to go up in Africa, in the Middle East, and right here in America, we can do that by showing that human compassion. Even if it is used as a blatant political tool, it still carries incredible weight.
Romney is right on this. Whether he realizes it or not is another issue, but we, as political progressives, as humans should recognize the validity of his statement.
If the Nazi's come out against cancer, do we have to be for it?
tyree @ 28:
lolz, looks like Obama heard all of our calls for "Where is Bin Laden?" Heh, Obama 2008 all the way!
well of course the Book of Mormon will be available in the waiting rooms as will be the missionaries to answer any questions...think of the profit potential - oh you've been diagnosed and don't have much time to live - we're here to help and accept a donation to the cult I mean church.
tyree @ 28:
I see his handlers now, telling him "Hillary made you look weak and naive when you told the world you would talk to all world leaders, whether they are our "enemies" or not...better go into attack dog mode for a few days to counteract!"
It's all just so predictable.
senoritchy @ 40:
Don't take any of Romney's claims seriously, the guy just wants to come into office and lower taxes for the rich and funnel taxpayers money into the religous group of his choice, just like what Bu$h did.
Ozymandias @ 25:
You have got that right. As the old saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. If we had been generous on positive things the insurgents wouldn't hate us so much but if they continued, their own people would turn on them.
But...but...but...they hate us for our freedom. According to the neocons Might Makes Right and Kill Them Before They Kill Us.
The thing is that this war is such a scam.
Too bad Mitt boy couldn't show any cleavage.
That might have distracted our journalist away from
his inarticulate analogy.
That kind of diplomacy is something that would help America become stronger around the world and help people understand that our interest
What Mitt is leaving out: This will be his springboard to one big giant world wide proslytizing Mormon Mission paid for by the American taxpayers. Give me a break.
Don't worry everyone, hannity will be all over this story on fox tonight.
Headline: Romney offering aid and comfort to the terrorists? Notice the "cavuto?" at the end.
What a dumbfuck Romney is. The mere fact he took his dog on the roof of his car for a 12 hour journey should be enough to see him out of this race.
Seele^ @ 39:
obama just another war monger kucinich 08
Our government is corrupted beyond hope for we citizens.
I think this next election I am going to put my vote up for sale to the Highest Corporate bidder.
anonymous @ 41:
It is the blogosphere who says "Where is Bin Laden" all the time! If you don't like Obama's latest call to end the anarchy in northern Pakistan, why didn't the left say "Where is Bin Laden, we don't care!" Sorry flip-flopping bloggers, we remember your posts.
tyree @ 47:
We will be expecting your vote when Obama wins the nomination.
And don't forget. Targeting civilians and UN observers is politically correct. Any good sushi joints in Paraguay?
I'll stipulate that I'm no fan of Mitt, but I think you are taking this completely out of context.
From reading this, I think this is what he was trying to say:
Despite there being a democratic government in Lebanon, Hezbollah using it's resources was able to give food, clothing, health care, and schooling to people in southern Lebanon, while the democratically elected government was struggling to keep everything together. Tied in with propaganda, Hezbollah was able to remain very popular, despite getting most of southern Lebanon pummeled to dust due to their actions. Which afterwards they were the first in to bring first aid, food, and shelter, thus making them look like the "good guys". Despite Hezbollah being horrifically bad for Lebanon, it managed to "win the hearts and minds" of a substantial percentage of the population of southern Lebanon, and the US government would be best to use similar tactics to win over people who are currently hostile to us.
Or at least that's what I got out of it, thoughts?
Seele^ @ 49:
ol bens been feeding the maggots for yrs!
L.A. Confidential @ 48:
Excellent, since the democrats are out fundraising republicans 2-1, we will be expecting your vote come 2008.
More insight into Mitt: THE TRUE MEANING OF MITT’S MORMONISM: MARRIED TO MULTIPLE POSITIONS
Norse @ 32:
Drug lords in Myannmar, South America,and Afgahnistan also practice this type of diplomacy Mitt!
The Saudis build Wahabbi Schools throughout the Middle East.
That's crazy talk Mitt, you know that the Bush Policy is to flood the Middle East with advanced weaponry.
nick @ 37:
Dude, of course he's right, but there are some huge mistakes made here. First, he's totally against universal healthcare here in US, which is what he's praising. Secondly, he's holding up a group that his party has labeled as a terrorist organization, as a beacon of success. He is after all, Mr. Double Guantanamo, right?
He wants to be our president, but this clip shows he's a total moron. The wingnuts will eat him alive over this. Even if he claims that he mispoke, it shows his total lack of understanding when it comes to important issues.
Reverend J @ 52:
Romney is just flappin his jaws, pay no attention until he makes an actual coherent statement.
Seele^ @ 50:
Seele^ @ 39:
boozemop @ 51:
can we expect your vote for dennis in 08 ?
johnx @ 38:
LOL.
So let me see if I have this sussed out.. He's for what amounts to universal health care for mid-east folks, some of whom consider themselves our enemies, I'm guessing he's toally jiggy with his own cradle to grave sweetheart plan should he become president courtesy of gub-mint largesse... But for the rest of us? The vagaries of the market place... Free market gouging for the plebes here who vote eh? IS that his plan??? But he's not a democrat huh? Cause that sounds just like the kind of shit necons like to dredge up and use against actual moderate dems. Boy, good luck spinning that shit Rummy...NOT!
Yea, I think a few more months of explaining just where you are actually coming from Mit like you are doing in this case, and your campaign ought to be just about as healthy as McCains..... I'm really beginning to think there;s some kind of oxygen deprivation going on with the right in this nation... Too much of what I'm hearing these days from the repubs has veered off from outrage generating power mongering wet dreams of empire and right on over into braindamaged delusion land... Hey, don't want to believe that? Fine, but I'm not the one spouting ideas that tend to screw or insult the very people I expect to vote for me...JD
Who supports this freak? With a diplomacy like Hezbollah, who needs enemies?
Jesus H. Christ almighty help us. :(
Romney is simply using the Iraq analogy.
We're getting rid of democracy here, so we can slaughter Iraqis into democracy in Iraq.
So Romney is saying that we'll get rid of health care here, so we can slaughter people into good health care in other countries.
Just as dead people are at peace and don't need democracy, they don't need health care either.
Mitt suffers from what I call "Zell Syndrome". When Zell Miller was governor of Georgia, he did some good things for GA's piss poor education system... then when he became Senator, he became a batshit crazy rabid lunatic. When Mitt was governor of MA, he provided universal health care coverage by creating affordable state sponsored health insurance (people with lower incomes pay virtually nothing for it)... but now he's running for president, he's become batshit crazy. I think it's the ambition for higher office that turn them into nutcases.
Dr. Matt @ 5:
A whole bunch of Mormons.
Now me, I got nothing against Mormons. I'm related to a bunch of them even. They're (mostly) some pretty nice people.
But I was raised in one of those Fundie churches that make up the so-called "Christian Right."
I'm waiting to see when the media is gonna figure out that the fundies think Mormons are cultists and Satan worshippers. Especially in the South and Midwest.
That's gonna put a kink in the Mittsters election hopes.
Actually, Mitt will provide Universal Health Care only to the many foreign nationals lucky enough to be confined without charge (double entendre) in Mitt's "Double Guantanamo." See, he is so smart, he can accomplish two foreign policy objectives at once.
boozemop @ 51:
Is Paraguay or Uruguay the country that the Moonies own? I always get them mixed up because they sound similar.
Seele^ @ 54:
That wasn't what I had in mind. Talk cash and maybe I'll I'll consider getting up and pushing some buttons.
"Tyree @ 59"
That's an affirmative.
HEZBOLA RULEZ! --- Only an idiot would consider them terrorists and at the same time ship Israel phosphorus bombs to burn babies to a crisp and BILLIONS to continue their ILLEGAL / IMMORAL/ Brutal-Military occuaption of Palestinians for 40 years.
Get your heads on straight America. Dont let idiots put thoughts in your head or words in your mouth. THINK!
[deleted]
Off topic, let's get back to it. Thanks.
I'm sorry, but I can't even listen to these "long shots" at winning the repug ticket, let alone the impossible task of the WH...TG!!
They are so ignorant of world perspective, it isn't funny at all...but shameful. All they want to do is salute the flag, curse the liberal left and devote their attentions to dumb ass causes such as the fight against gay rights, stem cell research, abortion, etc. Wake up America!!
I'd be ashamed to be a repug right now. However, I'm wondering what trick the Democratic Party has lined up to make the Democratic ticket suck. There are so many great candidates running, and I just know they are going to pick some lame ass do nothing that marches in the middle of the aisle. Think back....Kerry, Mondale, Humphrey, Dukakis...ugh!! WHY can't we pick some one who has potential to be a JFK, Roosevelt (either one), or someone who can actually LEAD this country? Instead, we get wet rags that are a hair better than what the repugs offer.
[deleted]
Off topic
This is the guy who, when asked if he would close Guantanamo, said "Double it!"
So after he renders all the shady looking folks to torture-limbo, he'll give the rest of the people what his party opposes at home: free health care.
Only a former Mormon missionary could think this is logical or consistent.
Dang, gotta learn how to do the cool quote formatting. Hell, good sushi anywhere for me. I'm tired of fish sticks and tater tots.
Is Mitt using Kerry's nuance approach to terrorism.! It really sounds like it.
I guess it is OK for a Repub to embrace Kerry's approach now that were down this Iraq occupation dead end road.
Mitt wants us to believe this is his idea? Just a republican debate or two back, Mitt was acting out his Gen Patten role saying, " I would double Guantanomo ". Aruh, aruh.
How does the GOP like embracing Kerry's approach now that Bush and the entire GOP has failed with 8 yrs of Bush's approach ? Not to mention draining the US treasury.
Note to the media; Ask Mitt why he now supports Kerry's terrorism approach?
What Romney said was he supports building health clinics in Lebanon to help gain good will from a population. He only used it as a good example of building good will and probably used Hezbollah because he wanted to show that even the most extreme group can garner support when they use their resources the right way. He wasn't using it as an example of how we should conduct our politics.
I’d like to also add that this should in know way should be seen as an endorsement of Romney. In fact he's probably the scariest GOP candidate, but I have a problem with kind of emancipative blogging.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
It's weird to see Romney praise a sworn enemy the republicans have with hezbollah. Democrats don't care much for hezbollah either. I wonder where he is going with this?
He prolly just wants more government money into religious groups under the guise of providing social services. Being Mormon is expensive specially with all them wives.
Mark Richards @ 34:
I respectfully disagree with you.
Its verbal diarrhea . ..because it pours out of his ass.
rj @ 77:
There's nothing sleazy about accurately reporting on what a candidate says. No one is putting words in his mouth.
The point is that what Romney said is inconsistent with wingnut orthodoxy.
But I'm told he smells good. What else do I need to know?
Reverend J @ 52:
I'm with you, Rev. I don't get the point of this post.
Romney was pretty cleasly saying that...
1) Hezbollah had learned to win the hearts and minds of the Lebanese by providing medical and social services as the thrust of their dimplomatic initiative
2) If the US expects to compete with Hezbollah for their hearts and minds, the US should learn from that success and make social and medical outreach part of its diplomacy
Nothing about this is shocking, scandalous, or intemperate. So what's the point?
There's and increasing and unpleasant tendency to jump all over Republican candidate's statements by taking they out of context. It reminds me of how the wingnuttery dealt with Keery's comments about a lack of education leading one to get stuck in Iraq - a comment clearly meant as a dig at Bush, but then spun, speciously, as an attack on the troops.
When they do it, it's ugly. When we do it, it's ugly...and dispiriting.
When THEY do it, they do it endlessly on TV, radio, and rightwing papers and blogs for weeks on end. Only to re-emerge again at some point. When WE do it, we do it on a blog that sees--how much readership?
He. Hehe...
Even when this guy says something right, he says it wrong.
For more on Romney's past conflation of all Muslim groups into a single unified Islamic threat, see:
"Romney's Love-Hate Relationship with Hezbollah."
The funny thing about this is that Romney doesn't take the small, simple, logical step that might redeem his argument.
To wit: that the Republican party could regain the hearts and minds of American people, at home, by creating a viable, low-cost system of public health insurance.
If providing health care is such a fantastic way to gain public support in foreign lands, then why the hell not do it at home?? It wouldn't be charity either - just low-cost health insurance for all, like every other industrial democracy has.
Come to think of it, they did do that. Hmmmm...I wonder if they'd be interested in starting a political party here in the Good Ole US of A? That's probably what it's going to take to get universal healthcare.
rj @ 78:
I agree. This post reminds me of the Kristol posting a few days back that pulled the same trick of deliberate decontextualization.
C&L is a wonderful site, and at the very top of my blogroll, but this is a disturbing trend.
There's enough real scandal out there. Cooking up fake issues undermines the legitimate ones.
This is very similar to Sen. Patty Murray D-WA. She made the same argument about bin laden providing aid to 3rd world people thereby cultivating support. She said America needed to beat him at that game.
Well, conservatives pilloried her, some calling for her execution. We liberals defended her as a person asking tough questions and examining the details-- exactly what we need post-9/11.
Thus, we cannot attack Romney along these lines. Yes, bad people market themselves by doing good deeds, hence, we should market ourselves by doing the same. He's a hypocrit, sure, but his sentiment, however shocking-sounding, is correct.
For everyone who is surprised by this ... what part of "crazy religious nutcase" don't you understand?
Oh. My. God.
Mitt did not say that. He didn't. No way.
So much for that presidential campaign.
Hey, this is also a big part of how the Soviets managed to win the Russian Civil War. They couldn't actually provide the free services and redistribution promised, but they promised it, and that was enough to get the guns on their side--as if the battle against the landlords wasn't enough (and honestly, with Allied intervention on the side of the Whites, it wasn't).
But anyhow, it's a bad analogy to make because of the politically charged nature of Hezb'allah. But the strategy Romney is discussing is an exceptionally sound one, used by colonizers and deep-pocketed authorities to create loyalty and legitimacy throughout modern history. Yet it will be pooh-poohed because "that's what THEY do" (I'm with you, McMike @ 90) and we'll continue to shoot our toes off one by one because, by God, the only thing Those People understand is POWER!
If the Dog Torturer loves Hezbollah-style diplomacy so much, maybe he should marry it. (Heh heh.)
Um, this is exactly what Bin Laden and Al Qaeda does as well. They build hospitals and schools and provide wagesor stipends to people.
Someone should ask Mitt that follow up.
While I agree that the republicans are evil people I must say that while it was not a well formed analogy he was making a decent point that even the most controversial political groups are able to sway favor in their direction by providing free services to the public like health care. That’s not a bad idea at all, his analogy was kind of off and confusing I think he meant to say America should setup clinics in war ravaged areas and help provide free health care to people as that terrorist group has done. It not like America has a much better public image then Hezbola does right now.
i doubt this will go over too well in fundie-land, nor in the wingnut-o-sphere.
three things the far right abhor: hezbollah, diplomacy and socialized medicine*
of course being a political opportunist and a complete fake, he might not realize that.
*also known as christianized medicine.
also, on a deeper level, i find mitt's words VERY illuminating
for Mitt, and his ideological ilk, healthcare is a means of deception, manipulation, of tricking people into subservience. a diplomatic ploy to win the hearts and minds. versus viewing healthcare as a human right.
the GOP, and their enablers, would provide healthcare for people they are trying to "win over" (see, exploit), and yet healthcare for americans is a nonstarter. nice. thanks a lot.
seriously, mitt, who would jesus care for?
and it begs the question, just what we as americans need to do in order to have the politicians worry about our healthcare? fuel an insurgency?
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As untimely, and against every Republican talking point, as it is. That's the smartest thing Mitt Romney has said in his candidacy.
Maybe if he were smarter he wouldn't mention groups that are on the US terrorist watch list.
I'm switching my vote next election cycle from Socialist Worker's Party to Hezbollah
(whitens teeth, brighten's smile)
It's sad when I have to agree with a Neo-Con's defense of a candidate for whom I am fulfilled with disgust, but this is one of those cases. Romney is only talking about successful tactics that can be used to win the hearts and minds of a population. I hardly think him stating Hezbollah's tactic is successful is an endorsement of the political stance of Hezbollah. That is an illogical conclusion I'd expect from a NeoCon, not from the C&L writing staff.
Mr. NeoCon @ 24:
I liked the cut to the guy with the WTF look on his face.
right Samson
reminds me of AOL
They were so jazzed with sending out so many free disks you could in a matter of months side your house and shingle your roof with them, to take on new customers that they purposely over sold and when "balk outs" and down time would happen on their system it would be the customers (subscribers) who'd had AOL for over 3 months and were deemed by marketing as "hooked"
The newbie's curiously didnt sufferr the inoperable times when AOL was down because they were considered by AOL's marketing as not addicted yet.
All the while they continued to sign up millions of new subscribers on a system that couldnt sustain them.
Mitt told Fox Noose that his favorite book is "Battlefield Earth". Case Closed, this man is a moron.
Despite my opposition to Romney, he is dead on with this. He was speaking of a diplomatic concept. Anyone with any understanding of counterterrorism will understand this. It's blatantly obvious. Smart diplomats look at the SUCCESSES of their opposition.
Why do you think the lebanese muslims and palestinian refugees love Hezbollah and HATE us? Most of the posters here don't know SHIT about what Hezbollah and Hamas have done FOR these people. A smart diplomat sees what the opposition is doing right and seriously considers it's results, not just dismisses them out of hand. Stop attacking Romney for the wrong reasons. He made one of the most realistic political observations I've yet to hear in this campaign. This is not a legitimate reason to attack him. There are, however, many others.
This is really disturbing. Most of the supposed lefty posters here are buying right into the "Hezbollah is terrorist" meme, while convieniently avoiding the very reason for their existence, which is to counter US and Israeli terrorism in Palestine and Lebanon. Lebanon's only real peaceful period in the last 50 years is when SYRIA and Hezbollah took responsibility for the maintenance of security. Just before (1980"s) and now SINCE the lebanese Christians have reasserted power, Lebanon was and is a violent shithole. Stop buying into the MSM propaganda about Hezbollah and Hamas.
I could see Mitt as Prez providing healthcare and education funding until they could get enough gas stations on the corner and enough fast food restaurants on the block in Darfur to make them all sick and addicted then let corporate eat them to leetle pieces like it happens in this country. We need more abandoned Taubman glitzy shopping centers where we can spend our virtual currency because we're way too bored to spend time enjoying being at and in our 3,000 sq. foot homes with all the needful things we were sure we had to have when we were shopping
vinny @ 103:
He was probably thinking about how much his bankruptcy payments are after his wife was hospitalized with heart failure, when they were both uninsured and unemployed during the bloom of Bush's new economy.
Thats if he was thinking what I was thinking.
Che's Lounge @ 106:
You really haven't been paying attention. We're not Mitt's constituents. As we're pointing out, the people he is trying to win over believe that all brown people are terrorists and that all foreign ways of doing things are evil.
What we're pointing out is that Mitt is suggesting we do what Bush says only the terrorists do.
The terrorists build hospitals, we blow them up.
So...let me get this straight.
A Hezbollah-lovin', universal health care-promisin,' varmint-shootin', Moroni-worshippin' former governor of Massachusetts is trying to win the 2008 GOP nomination?
The rabbit hole is gone, folks.
We're into the Bizarro universe now.
Hugh Hewitt will still carry the water for Mitt no matter what he says
Weaseldog @ 109:
The point is that Romney is:
A) Admitting that Hezbollah is more than just a terrorist organization.
B) Advocating diplomacy based on providing aid, not dropping bombs.
C) Recommending that our government provide healthcare.
All of these things are anathema to wingnut orthodoxy.
Mitt's other plan to restore world-wide confidence in the goodness of America is to double the size of Gitmo.
What a beacon of hope he'll be for the world.
Maybe we could get some of those good Hezbollah doctors to come over here and help us administer Mitt's plan. They could be vetted by the Brits first so we didn't get any terrorist doctors. I'm sure FOX would love covering it.
Medical Diagnosis by Video @ 113:
hey, it makes sense in mitt's mousse-adled brain.
the "hope" provision is that after we detain people without charges, deny rights and submit captives to harsh conditions (see, torture) we can then send them back to their home countries with a clear mind after it is realized they were wrongly detained and abused--afterall, they'll have american sponsored healthcare to treat their physical and psychological wounds.
*rubs hands* done and done.
The point is that Romney is:
A) Admitting that Hezbollah is more than just a terrorist organization.
B) Advocating diplomacy based on providing aid, not dropping bombs.
C) Recommending that our government provide healthcare.
All of these things are anathema to wingnut orthodoxy.
Of course I understand this. But people HERE at a supposedly progressive website are attacking him out of partisanship. We should be smart enough to recognize a rational diplomatic statement even if it comes from someone like Romney. He's being attacked out of pure hate. Don't hate. Using the uneducated hatred of Hezbollah to attack Romney is inconsistent with (my) progressive viewpoint. I cannot condemn him for this, even though I would NEVER vote for him.
Sorry I don' block quote very well.
We could use this against Romney by acknowledging his statement's credibility. The wingnuts would cut and run from him like rats in a flood.
Che's Lounge @ 116:
i'm not sure you do understand
have you actually read the other posts before you condemn? personally, i am 100% indep, and don't attack anyone out of partisanship. and the more posts i read the more i wonder if you are setting up a strawman to attack or you are basing your opinions off a small precentage of people's posts...
that said, you might see the efficacy of mitt's idea (or stolen idea), but, personally, i think the palestinians, lebanese, iraqis, afganis, etc. might see right thru this obvious ploy to buy people's acquiesence to american imperialism. not to say desperate people won't accept the help they need, but i do question its efficacy. it smells more like our attempt to buy off afghan tribal leaders for their support. which didn't work out that well in the end.
mitt, and other advocates of this plan, might be better off trying to come up with a foreign policy that didn't alienate, infuriate and decimate civilian populations. that, to me, is a better path. call me crazy.
Che's Lounge @ 116:
I don't recall attacking him out of partisanship. I think what he said was sensible. That was what was so amazing about it, considering that it came from a top GOP Presidential Candidate.
Imagine what would have happened if Obama or Hillary had dared to say such an outrageous thing! The entire wingnut world would have the vapors.
Thank you for your concern though.
Aaron @ 102:
Um - It's a little late for "hearts and minds" in Iraq.
You may recall that all of the civilian hospitals and clinics in Baghdad were looted and blown up four years ago while the Marines were guarding the Oil Ministry. Meanwhile, at least 600,000 Iraqis non-combatants have been killed, and 20% of the population are refugees.
Forget about whether Romney is endorsing the political stance of Hezbollah. That's not the point.
It is the fucking height of arrogance and delusion, not to mention a clear admission of the failure of Republican war policy, for Romney now to say, Gee, let's be nice to civilians, like Hezbollah.
And if Romney did become president, and begin airlifting doctors to Baghdad, where would they practice? In bombed-out hospitals with no electricity?
It took 100 US troops to protect John McCain when he held his bogus 20 minute photo op in the market outside the Green Zone. US medical clinics would be magnets for insurgents. How many troops will have to be diverted from the Surge in order to protect these doctors and keep snipers from shooting the Iraqis who dare to seek treatment?
Iraqis have been through 4 years of hell. They don't want to give America their hearts and minds. They want America the fuck out of Iraq. Romney is an idiot.
Well I admit I did not read EVERY comment, but the majority that I did read seem to attack him because he is emulating a concept that has worked for a "terrorist organization".. Sorry if I am misinterpreting this.
Che's Lounge @ 121:
CheL, I didn't mean to imply one should become an expert on the previous posts, it was just that i saw your excoriating remarks about what people had posted and failed to see what you were talking about. there are some, but i saw more people actually agreeing with romney's plan than i ever would have guessed--of course though, i think romeny's plan wreaks of imperial hubris, and shortsightedness (is that even a word?), and false hope, but that is just my opinion.
IOW, we SHOULD be doing what is obviously working for Hezbollah. From a diplomatic standpoint, the man is correct.
See Lucid Fiction @ 23
Or Oxycon @ 18
or John X @ 39
or Blue Budda @ 65.
Wrong approach.
Samson,
I agree completely. I believe if we embrace this diplomatic observation, it will actually HURT Romney's chances.
His magic underpants are too tight. Thank god even the most ignorant wingnuts can see through this empty suit. I bet the Nat'l Review Establishment cheerleaders just can't believe that nobody's buying their pro-Mitt rah rah. Keep the razor blades away from Hugh Hewitt. Talk about betting on the wrong horse!
Because the wingnuts DO hate for hate's sake. We can use this against them to get them to start eating their own. It beats what the moderate Dems are doing. Look what happened when Obama suggested dealing directly with Chavez. OMG the horror of aggressive diplomacy versus Bush's isolation policies.
What would happen to Romney's bid if there were 126 comments her saying "He's right!"
Samson- @ 122:
Providing medical aid to other countries in hopes of winning their friendship is "imperial hubris" and shortsighted? How so?
As for it being a false hope, I think it stands a better chance of success than "shock and awe" or "double Guantanamo."
Che's Lounge @ 127:
If Mitt Romney ran a campaign that won over the entire lefty blogosphere I would say the chances of his campaign for President being successful would be very good.
But he would lose badly in the GOP primaries and have to run as an independent.
I don't get it.
What Romney said was inept on political grounds, but eminently sensible from a, you know, human perspective.
He didn't endorse Hezbollah. He said they did something smart. Which they did.
He didn't promise universal health care. He said we should provide health aid to developing nations. Which we should.
I understand why the attack dogs on the right would pretend this is support for Hezbollah. I understand why they would howl about socialized medicine. But why are you doing it?
(... having read the exchange with Che's Lounge, I'd better add that I'm not responding to all the comments; I just think the original post is weird.)
He didn’t endorse Hezbollah. He said they did something smart. Which they did.
Exactly. But the wingnuts will NEVER understand this. And we can use this. It's like he had an unintended lapse of rationality, and it will drive them crazy(er). Romney is such an idiot he doesn't even know when he enables his opposition. Real presidential material. Kinda like another CinC we are stuck with. We can agree with him AND hurt his campaign at the same time. It's just golden.
Erik Ostrom @ 130:
Sigh. Go back and read all the posts carefully.
Gotta work so don't take my further unresponses as anything but.
TTFN.
Che's Lounge @ 121:
The "terrorist organization" angle offers but one basis on which to attack Romney - and by no means the most cogent.
Romney's idea fails because it's too little, too fucking late. It's arrogant, presumptuous, and a blatant admission of failure.
There's nothing wrong with helping people out (armies aren't the best way to provide aid, though - they aren't set up to do humanitarian work).
Iraq has been trashed. The reconstruction is a total bust, except for the fortunes made by corrupt contractors. The lights are on for 1/2 hour a day in Baghdad, when they have electricity at all. Think about that for a sec - they can't even keep food in a refrigerator. Forget about decent drinking water or plumbing that works. Their kids get shot at in the markets. The morgues overflow with murder victims. Anybody with money or a profession has fled the country. The "democratic" government is an incompetent, factional clusterfuck. They've gone from fear and civil order under Saddam to mob rule and random violence.
They've gone through four years of this shit.
The time for 'hearts and minds' passed a long time ago. How could it work, anyway? The occupying army never secured the borders or established order. The clinics would be targets.
It's not up to the US to do this anyway. There are many NGOs who are expert at humanitarian work (MSF, UNICEF, UNHCR, Red Cross, etc). Almost all of them have left Iraq, because it's too dangerous to work there.
Erik Ostrom @ 131:
Because Logan said that the rest of the GOP would not agree with what Romney said?
Annoyed Canuck @ 135:
It's never too late to start doing the right thing.
Erik Ostrom @ 130:
To me, this is the difference between something like Malkin or O'Reilly or Coulter (or what I'd categorize as a 'hate' site) and an engaging political blog, whether on the left or the right.
If issues are discussed on their merit (or demerit), then it's the latter. If the mere presence of a person's name is enough to generate an unending stream of abuse, regardless of the topic at hand ("Thompson and his trophy wife...hehe...Mitt and the angel moronic...hehe...Coulter's got an adam's apple...hehe...HRC is prolly a lesbian...hehe...Kerry's faked his wounds...hehe....Edwards is a girly girl...hehe") then it is likely the former.
I'd love to see C&L stay firmly on topics and issues, and not descend to the ad hominemesque modus operandi it so justifiably scorns on the right.
myiq2xu @ 128:
yup, it is. sorry, but that is how i see it. it is a ploy.
you are setting up a false argument too. you are saying that we would EITHER conduct a policy of 'shock and awe' OR a policy where we set up hospitals and clinics. when this is not the choice. or, i should say, this is not how i am reading mitt's theory.
no, instead of this choice (which would be a simple one for me: of course we build hospitals), i believe mitt and his supporters want to have their cake and eat it too. they want to bomb people back to the stone age and then build some hospitals to 'patch things up'. i just don't think people living in those countries are that gullible. the people will obviously use the services, but this won't erase the reality of the situation.
don't misconstrue my words, i wish our foreign policy was based on helping instead of dominating, but it is not. and i think you are giving mitt credit he doesn't deserve. now, if mitt's foreign policy held that we roll back our military empire, stop supporting undemocratic regimes across the globe, and the such--in CONJUNCTION with building hospitals, then we'd be getting somewhere. but please, understand what i'm saying (despite my poor writing skilz).
in summation: if a country is building hospitals to care of the wounded said country wounded in the first place, it is a ploy. and a handy ploy for the war profiteers. war will still make them fistfulls of cashola, and the country responsible for the wounds can also claim to 'care'... to me, that is pretty machiavellian
Freaked-Out Canadian @ 138:
Coulter's got an adam's apple?
why is the media suppressing this hillary interview with keith olbermann? it shows hillary being a hypocrite regarding her recent criticisms of obama: [Deleted. Off topic and spam-Sitemonitor]
Annoyed Canuck @ 135:
This is all, of course, true about Iraq (not to mention the damage done by sanctions in the run-up to the gulf War I), but there one teensy problem...
Romney never mentioned Iraq. That's not what he was talking about.
He was answering a question about the US's AIDS program in Africa. Probably as a way of stepping around commiting an exact dollar figure, while still expressing vague support for the program, and the President, he launched into a discussion of social diplomacy.
He did not say anything about Iraq, nor did he indicate it was any kind of answer to that conflict.
He suggested that using "diplomacy", working with allies like Indonesia, Jordan and Egypt, and using something other than miltary force - medical and educational support - was what might help combat "worldwide jihadism" because, as he points out "ultimately Muslims will have to reject the extreme."
What, in this, is worthy of attack?
It's as though a good chunk of the commenters on this thread didn't bother to actually listen to the video and what Mitt actually said.
Is this about issues, or is merely piñata.com, and Romney is the piñata de jour?
So, Romney supports universal health care everywhere except here, eh?
BenMuldowney @ 141:
Um, offtopic?
Samson- @ 139:
So your objection is not the idea itself, but that you believe that Romney is insincere? I might agree with you on that.
I am not creating a false dichotomy, however. It has been a central tenet of Bush's neocon strategery to use military force as a primary tool of foreign policy. That policy can best be summed up by the old Viet Nam era expression:
"When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow."
As Dr. Phil would say, "How's that working out for you?"
I think a foreign policy based on humanitarian aid rather than military force is one that will be more effective in both the short and long term.
I would oppose a strategy that was based on causing the need for aid so that we could provide the aid. That would be evil. Providing aid, especially to people we have already harmed, would be both smart and Christian, and as to the people we harmed, it would be the least we could do.
So I would have to say I agree with what Romney says, while I reserve judgment as to whether he really means it.
Waiter, I'll have a bissel Hezbolah 'mitt' Romney tonite & make it medium rare please, & no MSG.
Between this thread and the one from yesterday on O'Reilly I don't think I have ever seen so many concerned commenters.
It's good to know that they care.
What rock did these Republthugs crawl out from? Just when you think they can't get any dumber, there they go again.
YEP... HE SAID IT... I am always amazed at the level of STUPIDITY that dribbles out this mans mouth... He rivals...well... just about every other GOP I can think of....
This just in:
The Israeli Kinessett has just censured Mitt Romney. Anonymous sources say they are working on a proposal to have Mitt officially declared "the quintessential Goyisha Putz".
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