Padilla found guilty...
By John Amato Wednesday Aug 15, 2007 3:59pmJose Padilla has been convicted of federal terrorism support charges...
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Jose Padilla has been convicted of federal terrorism support charges...
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Can he appeal this virdict?
If you are shocked by this, well all I can say is,hum, gee I dont know what to say.
Now if you are appalled by this, that I understand.
It's good he was convicted rather than just being held without charge. What in the Hell gives the government the right to think they can hold US citizens indefinetly without charge?
Why be appalled by this? He was a terrorist, he was convicted in the court of law, he's guilty end of story.
We should be ashamed as Americans that we allowed this to happen. Guilty or Not, the man was abused and locked in a tiny dark room for almost 3 years.
So much for the burden of proof. This case was not just lame, it was quadriplegic.
Jonathon Turley on CNN said that he can appeal, and that on appeal he can try to get conditions of his detention admitted.
So, will all of this evidence be in the public record now? It sounded thin from what I heard, but transcripts of the trial should be available, yes?
And they told us the Railroad was a thing of the past.
Another reason for real Americans to hang their heads in shame.
Now when is the terrorist in the highest form of our government who is responsible for the deaths of so many innocents going to be held accountable for his crimes and terrorism?......Just off the top of my head the initials D.C. come to mind....ok i'll just spell it out....D.I.C.K...C.H.E.N.E.Y.
Guilty of saying "zucchini" and "eggplant."
Maybe this will prove to the righty bedwetters that "due process of law" does not mean "letting terrorists go free."
[Deleted. Drop in flamebait-Sitemonitor]
Another mentally disturbed 9/11 mastermind who confessed to everything after having his head put under water and kept naked in a dark cell for months with his veins full of thorazine.
----------------------------
Pink Houses
John Cougar Mellencamp
There's a black man with a black cat livin' in a black neighborhood
He's got an interstate runnin' through his front yard
You know he thinks that he's got it so good
And there's a woman in the kitchen cleanin' up the evenin' slop
And he looks at her and says, "Hey darlin', I can remember when
you could stop a clock."
CHORUS:
Oh but ain't that America for you and me
Ain't that America somethin' to see baby
Ain't that America home of the free
Little pink houses for you and me
There's a young man in a t-shirt
Listenin' to a rockin' rollin' station
He's got greasy hair, greasy smile
He says, "Lord this must be my destination."
'Cause they told me when I was younger
"Boy you're gonna be president."
But just like everything else those old crazy dreams
Just kinda came and went
:|| CHORUS
Well there's people and more people
What do they know know know
Go to work in some high rise
And vacation down at the Gulf of Mexico
Ooh yeah
And ther's winners and there's losers
But they ain't no big deal
'Cause the simple man baby pays for the thrills, the bills,
the pills that kill
:|| CHORUS
jeff @ 2:
Or you could say, "Wake up!".
Thank you.
Many people here and me criticized people for criticizing the jury in the Libby case. I'm hesitant to criticize people who sat there and listened to the evidence when all I did was sit in my pajamas and read blogs. Also, that's our system. Without being a hypocrite, I can't criticize the jury in this case. It seems to me that an overturn on appeal seems likely because of the unusual methods that lead to the conviction. I suggest people focus on that.
Ruthless People @ 10:
Ditto
The Bush Regime will keep him under wraps because he may know too much....
The prosecution's evidence was taped wiretaps of Hassoun and Jayyousi discussing vegetables and family life, which as everyone knows MUST be code for terrorists. After all, innocent people NEVER discuss vegetables or families when talking to friends on the phone. I know I never do. And then there's the application form to join al Qaeda with fingerprints all over it... I mean, I see those applications up in post offices and job centres all the time, fill one out and you'll be entered into their free prize draw for a monthly basket of vegetables delivered fresh to your doorstep.
But let's not mention the fact that Padilla was tortured for years, or that his defense put up NO evidence at all, none, zip, nada.
This was a trial? Can you say... kangaroo?
RandomLib @ 16:
Are you aware that Alberto Gonzales ("to the best of my recollection I can't recall") had charged him with one crime that was thrown out of court so they created a new crime for him. This man has been horribly wronged by the Bush Kangaroo court. Regardless of the outcome, the genesis of this conviction was pure bunk.
I guess it won't be long till we see this: FBI THWARTS ‘DIRTY BOMB’ PLOT: ARRESTS MUSLIM CAMPFIRE FARTERS
Another victory for torture loving Nazi republicans.
The rest of America holds it head in shame.
firehead @ 13:
Does your mom know you're using her computer? Seriously, are you 11 years old?
al qaeda has applications for joining? lol riiiight....
where's the evidence al qaeda even exist?
The sad thing is that this guy's life just radically improved by being convicted. Condemned to an ordinary jail cell for life -- during which time he will be permitted to see, hear, and receive sense-data -- is unbelievably better than what he has endured for the last 3.5 years, isolated and sense-deprived as he was on a brig.
America -- what a hideous nation.
Well there's your Success record!
Is this the only ONE convinction we have had against terrorists?
Where's Osama? Did he get his last CIA check?
You know, it's not the justice system we are questioning, it's the way the administration has handled things regarding this "war on terror". We know they have lied to us about a lot of things and we have come to the point where we just don't trust anything they say or do. This report that will come out next month about the Iraq war is a good example. We were skeptical of any report and then we find out we have damned good reason to be. The administration that has lied to us and misled us over and over will write the damned report. Once again they said one thing, we thought just the opposite and we were right. At this point we would be fools if we weren't skeptical.
bad day for libs????
WTF..
how about a bad six years for AMERICAN CYVIL RIGHTS..
where do these nitwits come from..
WHAT CAVE did that crawl out from??
P.S.
mr. cheeney has transfered all his considerable wealth to Europian funds..
how patriotic is that
I have tried to follow this case as best I could, of course, not nearly as well as Lewis Z. Koch on FDL, and it is my understanding that Padilla was accused of receiving al Qaeda training in Afghanistan. Yet my understanding also is that the prosecution never provided one factual bit of evidence that he was ever in Afghanistan. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Let me get this straight. Padilla went and got military type training from an Al Qaeda camp and went to jail for it here in America. By that rationale, I could face prison time for joining the French Foreign Legion. They both learn the same skills and apply them in order to kill people. One is a recognized military organization, the other is branded a terrorist organization. Why is it considered a terrorist organization? Because it isn't government run? Then by that rationale they should be able to arrest any member of Blackwater for the same reason.
Hypocracy, it boggles the mind.
E Ryno @ 21:
I was aware of that. I think Padilla has been wronged. I never said he was not wronged. From what I've read, none of that was brought up at trial and the jury did not consider any of that. That's why I don't think this is a situation to criticize the verdict of a jury who heard what they heard and decided on something we are not angry about. The appeals process is a place that will hopefully be taken into account.
nonny mouse @ 20:
Even so. How many innocent people has Padilla killed? How many innocents has Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld killed?
BushCo can lie, cheat, steal, terrorize and kill with immunity. Who's going to hold them accountable? Certainly not Spineless Democrats, not A Blow Job Was Worth Impeachment Repubilcans, not Nancy Impeachment Is Off The Table Pelosi.
A truly disgusting double standard if ever I saw one.
i don't know if he was guilty or not. HOWEVER i do know that he was screwed from day one of his trial because in my opinion, he wasn't fit to defend himself for this trial. after 3.5 years isolated without legal counsel and tortured day after day for that long, i don't think anyone would come out the other side the same as when they went in.
he might be guilty but the way he has been treated the last 3.5 years by his own government is punishment enough.
Justice in this country is dead.
Padilla was convicted of conspiracy to murder-death-kill unspecified persons in an unspecified country (other than the US) at an unspecified time on an unspecified date.
Because of an alleged al Qaida application and recordings where he used words like tourism and eggplant.
Sending the Mafia your resume doesn't make you a member of the Sopranos. Sometimes words are just words. But the GOP has a history of using codewords, like "law and order" and "quotas" for "keeping the dark people in their place."
Too bad Padilla didn't use the words "loofah" and "falafel." If he had he would be working as an analyst for Faux News.
So are they going to charge him with time already served (3.5 years) and let him, or just hang him and somehow let the video leak to YouTube so that they can convince the bedwetters that they're doing something about terrorism.
Ya know what the worst thing about this is to me? Well beyond Padilla himself that is.
That I cannot *TRUST* my own government enough to say "Well he's had a fair trial..."
Honestly - SHOULDN'T I be able to have enough confidence to say that? But I don't. I don't because of Gonzales. I don't because of the way Padilla was kept for three years.
Is the verdict right? DID Padilla support terrorist groups? I don't know. I can't say because the Bush administration has done so many things to make it seem like they had no evidence and that they were just covering their arses; that I just can't bring myself to trust the verdict.
That's honestly horrible. That means if I get arrested, I can't count on getting a fair trial myself - what reason do I have to believe I'll be treated fairly?
If Padilla is well and truly guilty of the things they claim, then yes, I too want him in prison - but the fact is I can't even trust our judicial system enough to say that at this point.
In the end, I don't buy that he did anything. There's just too much amiss about the situation for me to believe it.
I'm sure it was a fair trial. This administration is all about rule of law.
GOPBullshit @ 4:
The USAPATRIOT act. Light a fire under your representative.
JJohnson @ 38:
All of your questions SHOULD BE moot, since no trial should have taken place, since charges should have been dismissed after it was rightfully, legally and constitutionally found that Mr Padilla did not receive a speedy trial.
U.S. Constitution: Sixth Amendment
Sixth Amendment - Rights of Accused in Criminal Prosecutions
Amendment Text
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment06/
I think if we looked closely at the trial and this one Amendment to the US Constitution, we could find other violations of Mr Padilla's rights.
there is no doubt that padilla was tortured.
also i heard on the radio if he had been found not guilty bush would have just called him an enemy combatant and kept him in jail anyway.
he has stockholm syndrome now, because he was tortured so badly.
and he is an AMERICAN. if it can happen to him, it can happen to you!
Padilla may have been a naive recruit. We'll never know. They screwed with his head over 3 years. Meanwhile every U.S. citizen has exactly just as many rights as Padilla: None. No lawyer, no jury, fake trials that would shame the Nazis and Stalin as well, the bland endorsement of our major media for every shameful act of the administration, the stacking of arms for Swat Teams to go after home-grown "terrorists" even deluded schoolboys, the classification of Iran's Guard as a terrorist organization. And you free speaking, free thinking liberals think that it will all be made right by the November, 2008 election? You think Cheney doesn't have a plan for martial law by that time? Did you notice that last year's election gave the Dems a bone, but bottom line, it didn't work; they choked on it.
POP asked above about appeal- I looked that up to - first thing...YES- all 3 are..now if he was still listed as a Combatant- he could not appeal....and whoever put Pink Houses up there- boy that fits sadly.....I WANT OUR COUNTRY AND OUT CIVIL RIGHTS BACK....NOW...CUZ THIS WAS NOT ABOUT TERRA....IT WAS A SHAM....
GOPBullshit @ 5:
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but there is reason to worry. "This American Life" did a great episode on who these "terrorists" are at Guantanamo.
http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1123
Haven't heard the 2007 updated version, but here it is:
http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=331
On its face, whether Padilla really is guilty or not, don't you find it distressing that a bloke held on flimsy evidence of some vague national security threat can be held for 3.5 years before going to trial and is then sentenced to more time...
While Scooter Libby, who actually threatened national security by unveiling an entire CIA undercover project got a hand-slap and served NO time????
Cabbage Head @ 43:
Right. The "War on Terrorism" is bunk.
...
Land of the free, NOT any more. It's all part of the new and improved democracy. SCARY NEW LAWS -------> http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=339
http://www.YouPolls.com
Hold it! Wait a minute! Does this mean a terrorist was neutralized using...da-da-DAHHH!--LAW ENFORCEMENT in a CRIMINAL MATTER?? Well, what do you know, "serving our enemies with legal papers" just stopped some terrorists! Hey, Bush, you made "war" on Osama, and he's still around!
-Scott
Dave @ 18:
Padilla? LOL!
Look, anyone that wasn't there doesn't know what happened. It isn't a matter of whether Padilla is guilty or not. IMO, the problem is that the government has handled things SO badly, that many people cannot trust the outcome of the judicial process. I'm sure the right-wingers will point to the Left's reaction and say "see, we KNEW you supported terrorists and hate America!" But that misses the point. With all the dishonesty, lying, secrecy, and flagrant abuses, the Administration, in its incomprehensible arrogance and incompetence, has brought into question the most basic elements of American society, that is law, due process, human rights, and justice. Say what you want about whether those ideals play out all the time (they most certainly do not IMO), but problems in application of those ideals is a whole lot different than wiping your butt with them. Thaks George, Dick, Donald, Condi, Alberto, et al. Thanks a whole bunch.
Had to be convicted. Now nobody can say the United States tortured an _innocent_ person for years without filing charges. So that makes it OK.
Still if the jury had been allowed to hear testimony about the torture, maybe they would have concluded that any confessions were less than sincere. One thing's for sure: Don't talk about vegetables if you think the government is listening!
"wiretaps of Hassoun and Jayyousi captured discussions of vegetables and family life – discussions the prosecutors claimed were code for terrorist activities"
The stink of the whole matter, to me, is that they gave him a trial only after they tortured the poor bastard to the point of mental instability. How fair is that?
Was the Jihadists Not So Anonymous application form an online one?
The US tortured a US citizen for three years while he was held in a military prison in solitary confinement without the right to a lawyer. Our justice system is dead. DEAD. I cannot begin express how disgusted I feel living in a country that does this kind of thing. How far are we as a nation going to let these criminals go before we say enough?
Really quite unbelievable, since the government made so many outrages to justice. I am sure that they are planning an appeal. I suppose then there is a chance that the court might order the start of dismantling of the gulag.
Please tell me what transpired was not something like:
translated as:
Please tell me they had more to go on...please...
Too bad Scooter's sentence got commuted. These two guys in one cell would be an A+ reality show.
Honestly, if the evidence was this clear cut, why did it take them so long to bring him to trial? I smell a republican.
I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that.
I agree this case was lame. He deserved better. Of course from what I understand the place where he was tried was pretty republican. I don't have a good feeling about this and I hope he can get a real fair trial where evidence can be proven and all of the other qualities of a fair trial.
Fabricate evidence
torture suspect until he confirms all charges (it is until, no doubt about it)
present a solid case
judge only has to sign the conviction
case closed
yes, the US is truly a shining example of freedom and justice ...
XuYu, this president's decisions have gutted our 4th and now 6th amendment rights, increased Al Qaeda's recruitment power, endorsed torture (including the torture of American citizens) and caused the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and Iraqis. I think trust and support at this point is a little naive.
Um..... Don't be like this. This is the SAME kind of crap we criticize the Republicans for - supporting a convicted criminal. He was convicted, he had his day in court and will have many appeals, and thats it. All of you people bitching about it are the same as the Libby supporters. Libby was convicted and the Republicans went on a rampage saying it was a bunch of crap - and all us liberals shouted about supporting a convicted criminal. Not to mention all the pushes by the left for the people locked up in Guantanamo Bay to get a trial. Well, Padilla had a trial, had a defense, and was convicted. Was he treated like crap in the run up to the trial? Sure he was, and that was wrong, but it doesnt take away from what he was convicted of.
If you're gonna yell and support a convicted criminal, then you're no better than the wingnuts who defended Libby.
Ok, who here has a problem with the notion that Al-Qaida had an application form? Five pages no less. There are top notch colleges with shorter applications.
living_abomination @ 62:
Libby was not taken in by the FBI and held in isolation and tortured for 3.5 years, he was allowed access to legal console right away, was not tortured and did not have the one of the charges against him thrown out in court, and did have friends in high places help him out. To put Him and Libby in the same light is pretty thin.
The last line of defense we have is the ordinary citizen on a jury to rebuke these outrageous abuses by the government. When that is gone, as it appears from this jury's decision, we are done. When the average man/woman on the street doesn't stand up for common sense and instead knuckles under, there is no hope. You have given Bush and his criminals your country. This case was laughable from the outset and really just went screaming downhill fast after that with the torture, the changing stories, the changing charges, etc. That these "jurors" let that slide is the indictment that we are finished as the country we were prior to Bush. When the citizenry is complicit in the crimes of their government, where do go from there? We all know O.J. was guilty of murder, but I, like I think the jury did in that case, would have have voted to acquit as well because of the governments misconduct in the case. The same should have happened her; it is the one area where ordinary people can still stop their government, and they did not do it. As I said, where do we go from here?
living_abomination @ 62:
sorry for the prior post. i'm not used to quoting. i believe this is how it should have read. living_abomination @ 62:
and of course let us not forget that libby was held and tortured for 3 years prior to his trial. i don’t know whether padilla is innocent or guilty, i do know the conviction smacks of another victory for bush and home security. i question everything at this point
GOOD!!! It's too bad he won't get the death penalty instead of life...although, i'm inclined to think his stay in prison won't be too uneventful. Bwahahahahahahaha!!!
Arroyo @ 49:
He may know more than boosh.
May? Does he process oxygen?
Not in my name, Uncle Sam, not in my name.
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